Bulls Beat #216 - Derrick Rose rule

Bulls Beat #216 - Derrick Rose rule

The NBA is back and Derrick Rose joins Larry Bird, Gilbert Arenas, and Allan Houson by getting a rule named after him in the newest CBA.

Bulls Beat #216 - Derrick Rose rule

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  • I guess the Bulls and the Clippers will be the two franchises who will be screwed by this new rule of getting upto 30% of the team's salary. This was really stupid. They should have made something like they can go upto 14 mil and then the rest of it should'nt be counted towards the luxury tax/salary cap for designated franchise players. It seems like teams are paying a penalty for developing their own superstar(which should be encouraged) rather than penalizing some team like Miami which signed a superstar player from a different team.

    Hopefully, the Bulls find a loophole in the rule somehow by deferring the salary or something else like starting their advertising agency for Rose or something like that.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    So far Blake has none of the criteria.

    He would need to be voted as a starter or make all NBA the next two seasons to be eligible for the max. It's probably likely that he's voted as a starter the next two years though.

  • As I said on the last thread... we will see if the Bulls are contenders or pretenders cause this is definitely on Reinsdorf now on if he's willing to spend the money to continue to build this team to a legitimate championship contender. I agree with Doug that there shouldnt be any excuses not to get the talent on the Bulls that will be needed to help this team get past Miami. I know Rose probably won't do it, but he shouldn't sign a new deal until he's able to see that the Bulls owner is trying to continue to build this team into a championship contender because Miami will continue to get better and who wants to lose to them every year for the next 4 to 5 years. Rose is the MVP and deserves to see continued success by playing on a winning team and a team that will challenge and beat Miami every if not every other year in the playoffs. The ball is literally in Reinsdorfs court now, will he spend big or won't he? Let's hope his history of not spending big for the Bulls won't play a big part in this teams continued success

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I agree on Rose. I would not sign a new deal unti I see the Bulls upgrading offensively i.e spending money. Unless he values payday/security over winning in the short term(which I wouldn't blame him).

  • Doug, in reply to another poster, said it all in a nutshell, "The Bulls/Jerry R. will need to spend to win[and they probably won't]."

    Ironically, if you have questions about Thibodeau as a head coach who can get the job done then you wonder if spending now is really a good idea. Maybe you spend now, get Iguodala or Afflalo/Prince with another good supporting player who can shoot/score/character guy, and you still get held back if you have a sup par battle plan and player morale/development. I know the majority supports "62 Win/ECF" Tom, but Derrick's playing out of his mind had as much to do with that regular season win total as did Tom's defense.

    The other big question mark is Noah. Quality players step up in the playoffs, and sport high field goal percentages. Noah's numbers have plummeted. His constant references to partying and immature, in your face, "I'll do as I please" attitude as in the ESPN short where he barks about energy drinks in his fridge that are "great for hangovers" with a mishcevious grin, well, they just make you have some doubts. At least I do.

    Bottom line: This team has a lot of potential for the first time since the winning/Scottie & Michael Years. But they also have a major rep of being conservative, cheap, and sometimes just inept. Maybe Noah bounces back in a big way, and Thibs evolves beyond the Skilesesque talking to/treating players like dirt. And maybe the Bulls do get winners and skilled scorers like Prince/Afflalo or talent like Iguodala. I hope they do, and also get some offensive plays to get the ball out of Derrick's hands in half court, predictable extended double teams as in the Miami series which was the worst position to put Derrick in.

    The funny thing is the mischaracterization of Derrick as a poor shooter(mid range). Hoopdata shows that compared to Wade and LeBron up until last season Derrick had higher field goal percentages from mid and extended mid range. But I believe his poor handling by the Bulls and his confidence crumbling collapse at FIBA hurt his shooting. Derrick can yet be the Bat/Scottie ying or yang, but maybe not with "Thibs" and certainly not with a lame offensive supporting cast.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    I think Rose’s decline in mid-range shooting percentage was his preoccupation with the 3pt shot. His 3-pointer is still a work in progress. Rose had some streaks when he showed marked improvement, but then times when he reverted to mid-20% form.

    Rose had a certain stubbornness and kept shooting 3-pointers even when he was cold as ice. He would have been better served revisiting his mid-range jumper as Rose was becoming automatic from 15-18 feet the prior year.

    I hope Bulls can find a way to acquire a legitimate, highly efficient 3-point threat at SG (Afflalo) and Rose revisits his mid-range game.

    Here's a question? Should Bulls include the fabled Charlotte/Tyrus draft pick if it could help them land Afflalo? I don't want to trade Gibson or Asik.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    You are the only one I know who dislikes Thibodeau as coach, so you are on your own island there.

    However, if the Bulls didn't think Thibodeau could get it done then they should immediately fire him, bring in someone who could and then spend.

    They shouldn't not spend because Thibodeau isn't good enough.

    That said, I think Thibodeau is good enough, but this team needs one more horse.

    I'm developing a plan I should post on Tuesday on the blog on how the Bulls can go all in this year.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I've said before as an assistant/defensive associate head coach Thibodeau is fine. He just isn't cut out to be the head honcho/coach IMO. He's risen to his own level of incompetence in his inability to handle players and offensively adjusting to defenses in my view including in playoff situations. Again, there's a reason he's never been hired as a head coach/served as an assistant for almost what thirty years. When he's not in over his head I'm sure he's an OK coach to deal with as an assistant. I had no problems with him with the Celtics. The players respected him and the way he carried himself in that role. Being in charge/power/the boss can do strange things to you. That's why a lot of people are not cut out to do it/there are only a handful of successful NBA head coaches.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    The reason Thibs wasn't a head coach until now is because he turned down job after job after job, RW.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    +1

    The guy was a rookie head coach last year too. He has the players respect. They go to battle for him. To me he's much more of a Popovich than a Collins or Larry Brown. Cut the guy a little slack RW, no coach is perfect.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Well I disagree with your view, but we've had this discussion before.

    In short, I think you overestimate the coach's impact on the game or adjustments to be made. I think fans typically take a "we lost, blame the coach. We won, credit the players!" mentality towards things and will always complain about anything that didn't work while not noticing the things that did work.

    That said, he'll probably be fired at the end of the year, because he won coach of the year last year. Those guys always get canned.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Funny, that last aside about being canned as a direct result of the terminal coach of the year corollary. Seriously, if he just lightens up some with Rose, Noah etc. I'd have no problems with him/hope he succeeds. As I said thinking you have to be a certain way as the Boss can bring out the worst in you if you're playing the part, but don't really know what you're doing/have the capability in that role. I hope he proves me wrong.

  • prepare for the word "flexibility" to be used constantly by management(code word for being Cheap). Looks like they will use Rose's max ext as an excuse not to get a full MLE player or a young shooting guard like Mayo or Afflalo. I guess we have to settle for Vince Carter, Richard Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas??? Looks like the Bulls plan on bettering the team through trade of large longterm salaries and getting quality vets on min deals. Maybe they want to revisit the Noah for Ellis deal or something better might come up at trade deadline.

  • In reply to Defense&Rebound13:

    Mayo isn't a FA and Afflalo isn't restricted, so those aren't MLE candidates anyway.

    I do think they'll go cheap, but I hope to be proven wrong.

  • A major reason Deng and Rose underperformed in the 4th quarters of playoffs was Thibodeau grinding them into the ground overplaying them all regular season and then reducing Bench Mob minutes in the playoffs

    Expecting Rose to close games when playing him all 24 minutes of the 2nd half is INSANITY!!! Thibs coached like a rookie when it came to substitutions/matchups/resting players. Thibs is an excellent preparation coach, but a mediocre game situation coach (which fits the description of a life-long assistant). Is Thibs too stubborn to learn from his mistakes?

    I disagree with the choices of Iggy and Ben Gordon. Neither will get Bulls over the hump. Iggy: 33%-3pt and 69%-FT. He’s very athletic, but not the shot creator or shooter Bulls need. Gordon is similar to Boozer – undersized at his position and gives back every point he scores on defense. Bulls cannot afford two players like that, I’m not sure they can afford one.

    Bulls need a shot creator with 3pt efficiency who can defend. I’m not saying that’s easy to find. I’m saying its what Bulls need eliminate their weakness and win a championship. The only player I see who fits that description is Afflalo but I don’t know how Bulls can pry him away from Denver while keeping Gibson and Asik.

    When I look at Bulls roster I ask, Can this player compete deep in the playoffs?
    Korver NO (can’t create shot, athletically overmatched, atrocious defender)
    Boozer NO (undersized, athletically overmatched, atrocious defender)
    In 2010 free agency Bulls signed two Jazz and didn’t even get their best player - SG Wesley Matthews, Jr. Think about that. Just signing guys and throwing around money does not create a playoff team.

    Bogans NO
    Rose YES, Deng YES, Brewer YES, Gibson YES, Asik YES, Kurt Thomas YES,
    Noah MAYBE (his offensive limitations and frailty are hindrances)
    Watson MAYBE (if Thibs would rest Rose and trust the backup PG)

    I agree with Reinsdorf needing to step up and add talent regardless of cost. But I don’t believe taking on other teams bad contracts is the answer, imo. Bulls are in a very difficult situation in trying to add the right talent. J.R. Smith and Jason Richardson are available sure, but are they the answer?

  • In reply to Edward:

    Name all the "Shot creators with 3 point efficiency who can defend" in the NBA.

    Not sure if I can think of a single guy in the NBA off the top of my head who qualifies [even counting guys who are obviously unavailable].

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    In my post I never said there was a long list of SGs with those skills, all being unrestricted free agents. Also, I specifically said finding such a player is not easy. But like it or not, that is the Bulls weakness that needs to be filled.

    Acquiring ill-fitting players with bad contracts whom other teams will gladly unload is not the path to a championship, imo. Spending just for the sake of spending, to somehow show fans Bulls are trying, is not the answer.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Because a guy only does 2 of the 3 things you need a guy to do, doesn't mean he's a poor fit compared to a guy who does only one of those things.

    The Bulls have room to upgrade even if they can't find the perfect piece, and they are better off getting the upgrade than standing pat and waiting for a perfect piece that will likely never come.

  • I also agree on Rose kind of sucking it up in stretches....he'll never make the excuse, but he never fully recovered his speed/bounce from his ankle problems he suffered in the earlier rounds of the playoffs. That was pretty plain to see.

  • Why does everyone think we can get Afflalo? Denver will match because they have no other 2-guard and we can't afford him. So please mention realistic options like J. Crawford, J. Richardson, OJ Mayo, etc.

  • I agree, Afflalo isn't coming here. Denver would match the MLE offer if we made it.

    Mayo isn't a FA, so we'd have to trade for him [though we have assets to do it].

    Will be interesting to see who is out there in FA, because looking at the potential amnesty cuts and reviewing everyone's salary, there is a TON of teams with cap room without a lot of good players.

    I think this is going to be a big time overpayment year in FA, and the MLE talent will be very low.

  • Bulls fans should be concerned about Reinsdorf's commitment (or lack thereof) to spend over the luxury tax. In Reinsdorf's mind, if the Bulls could draw 21K+ fans consistently to the United Center from 1999 to 2004, he knows a Rose lead product without championship capability will draw those same 21K+. The fans back 8 to 13 years ago were stupid fans, not good fans.

  • In reply to RichG:

    There is some business incentive in that another championship with Rose at the helm probably does a ton to permanently lock in some of the fan base much like Jordan did.

    However, in teh end, I think Reinsdorf has to choose to want to maximize odds of victory over maximizing profit, and I think many people doubt whether he'd do that.

    I do think he'd pay the tax if he could get a "pau gasol" like move similar to the Lakers. However will he pay the tax to add mid level guys to increase depth that only incrementally increase our odds? Will he pay the tax for a sub all-star who's overpaid like Monta Ellis or Andre Iguodala?

    That's where I fear the answer is no.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Yes, I believe Reinsdorf would answer no and I think it is the correct answer. Because adding sub all-stars who don’t posses the required skill set will not get the Bulls a championship.

    Adding Pau Gasol got the Lakers to the Finals 3 consecutive years, with 2 rings. You think adding Iggy, Ellis, or Ben Gordon would do the same for the Bulls? No it would not, and so Reinsdorf’s answer should be no. Similarly, what was accomplished by adding Boozer, Korver, Bogans, etc. Not a championship team, that’s for sure. Repeating the same mistake of spending big on sub all-star talent would be foolish. I don’t think Reinsdorf will do it, nor should he.

    What Reinsdorf should spend on is the correct fit that fills Bulls needs/weaknesses. Now that is not easy or convenient. There is not a long list of players at SG who fill those needs. No one said creating a championship team was easy or inevitable.

    I agree a MLE will not be enough to land Afflalo. Bulls must get creative – very creative. Read this November 3rd Sports Illustrated interview with Aaron Afflalo and tell me who is a better fit for Bulls SG? Afflalo’s agent, Sam Goldfeder, thinks Chicago is a dream destination for his client.
    http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/11/03/afflalo-talks-carmelo-trade-free-agency-more/

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    A championship means more money in the short term as well. How much more do you think The Bulls would earn if they won the title vs losing in the ECF?

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    They'd probably get an extra 10 million just by going whether they win or lose. If they win, an extra 20 million in immediate money maybe?

    The long term effect is probably much, much bigger though.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I was just trying to figure out how much of the 40 mil (the number you threw out yesterday for spending into the luxury tax) they would immediately get back. With the long term effects, you'd have to imagine it would be at least a wash right? Come on Jerry!

  • In reply to RichG:

    Chicago is simply a HUGE metropolitan area. 21,000 seats is not a lot to fill in Chicago, New York or LA. In contrast, in the small markets, selling 21,000 tickets is a much more difficult task given the fraction of the population they possess.
    Ever visited some of these cities? Sacramento, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Portland, etc. They aren't much bigger than Rockford. I'm exaggerating a bit, but not by that much.

  • If We did acquire iggy, would iggy be the back up pg? In a line up of Rose, Iggy-G/F, Deng F, Boozer F/c, Noah C/F, Taj F/C, Jr Smith; there really isn't a back up pg on the team. Iggy was a pretty decent distributor last season. Jr smith can handle the ball, but he's a piss poor distributor. However, our current back up pg isn't really much of pg either.

    If it happens, I'll have no complaints of any back up pg or d league player available. We won't have too many minutes available at guard anyways, so who cares.

  • 1. In response to RW, I don't know how we can get a better coach than Thibs. Off-course, Thibs has his issues as RW correctly points out but this is not all the time. And, hopefully he will learn from his mistakes. Also, there is nobody else on the market who can be better than Thibs or it is going to be a very risky move. But Thibs does need some kind of offensive guru(that should be easier to find comparitively) to design some cool and easy offensive sets based on the skill-sets of the Bulls players.

    2. I would like to point out that players like Igoudala or Ellis can probably flourish with the Bulls if they are here as a second option or third option. The big problem those guys have now is they are the first option on their teams. With Rose here, it is much easier for them. The Bulls should go for somebody like that if they can sacrifice Taj and spare parts with the Charlotte pick. This is the year to sell draft picks as next year's draft seems to be a promising draft and rival executives might value 2012 draft picks a lot more than 2013/2014 draft picks.

  • Bulls, Heat, and other contenders may be blocked for amnesty players. Read this article..........

    ww.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-nba-lockout-s112711,0,4202541.story

  • Perhaps the lockout made some of you a little thick minded. Derrick Rose is absolute gold to JR and the organization. The Bulls were cheap the last 10 years because they NEVER had a possible acquisition opportunity which would have put them in position to win a championship. JR doesn't shell out cash for playoff appearances, HE HAS 6 RINGS. However, he has gold in Rose, and he will spend for two reasons, keeping Rose from departing, and more obviously, because he knows we can win a title.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    This is the way I have always felt about Jerry & the luxury tax, however the new punitive luxury tax has me skeptical now. I'm with Doug, hope he proves me wrong, & they make a deal for Iggy.

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