Bulls Beat #192 - Better luck next year


Bulls Beat #192 - Better luck next year


I discuss the Bulls series against the Heat, the moves to be made next year, and bring some rationality to how close this series actually was.

Filed under: Podcast

Tags: bulls beat, chicago bulls, podcast


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  • Doug, can you and the rest of Bulls nation NOT understand WHY Rose was terrible in this series? In the regular season, Miami did NOT give Rose HALF the defensive attention in the regular season that he got in the playoffs. The Bulls simply DO NOT have another offensive player that can exploit a matchup. It is VERY hard to beat a team like Miami with one player capable of taking over a game. Assuming the Bulls just sign a SG, we/Rose will face the LeBron James matchup situation next season. Dwight Howard is the ONLY player on the market capable of exploiting a SERIOUS flaw with the Heat. And ontop of his offense, he completely shuts down the paint, forcing Wade and James into jump shooters! PLEASE analyze this series and Rose's struggles with your eyes OPEN. Rose didn't just have a bade series because he was off, he has nobody else to take ANY pressure off him!

  • In reply to sukid09:

    Doug clearly stated that if you can get Howard you do it, but for that to happen you'd have to assume 2 things minimum: 1)Orlando trades him in conference 2) Howard would be willing to resign in Chicago

  • In reply to sukid09:

    We lost two games because Rose missed a FT down the stretch.

    He shot probably 25% on open three pointers.

    These are things not related to the Miami defense that would have swung at least two games in this series.

    Yeah, if you can get Dwight Howard you do it, no duh.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Doug, the funny thing is, some Bulls fans told me they would NOT trade Noah/Deng/Gibson and Asik for Howard and Turkoglu!

  • Ya good post....an the constant pick an roll situations were bad for us too. We already knew they were going to double an trap Rose...SO why would we keep putting him in that situation? LeBron 6'8 best player in the game, then you bring the pick an roll, which brings another 6'10-7'0 player coming at Rose...an we expect Rose at 6'2 to make a good pass while moving backwards. Serously? I was also calling for Kurt Thomas by the last 2 games...at least he can make a jumper unlike Noah. Bulls should be able to land a solid SG this summer. A lot of guys out there, plus the Bulls are a good team. We may get someone to take less money to come here. Couple names I like (no order)

    Micheal Redd,JR Smith,Wilson Chandler,Mickeal Pietrus,Jason Richardson,Nick Young,Mike Dunleavy, Aaron Affalo....just off the top of my head.

    An also....IF im the Bulls...Im thinking about offering Noah,Boozer,Korver and draft picks galore for Dwight Howard.

  • Bulls can offer TWO different packages to Orlando.

    One: Deng, Noah, Gibson and picks for Howard and Turkoglu
    Two: Deng, Noah, Boozer and picks for Howard, Hedo and Arenas

    Option one gives Orlando two YOUNG expensive players in Noah and Deng, along with a young/cheap PF in Taj and picks. They get to swap Deng for Hedo, which is tremendous for Orlando.

    Option two gives them our starting frontcourt AND they get to dump BOTH Arenas and Hedo on the Bulls.

    Bulls fans need to forget about Hedo and Arenas, wqe are ONLY making this trade for DWIGHT HOWARD. Hedo is more than capable as a staring SF next to Rose and Howard. In both scenario's, we have a starting PF (Boozer or Taj) and we still have the same free agent SG options.

    It's a NO-BRAINER!

  • In reply to sukid09:

    You call Orlando, you say "we'll trade anything on the roster that you can make work in the trade checker for Dwight Howard except Derrick Rose". Orlando then says "no" or Howard says "I don't want to go to Chicago".

    Now what?

    I mean you are arguing a point no one disagrees with. Have you seen a single person here say "You can't trade for Howard if you have to bring back Arenas or Turkoglu!". No, no one has said that.

  • In reply to sukid09:

    How about we do a Deng for Iggy swap (3-way trade), sign JR Smith and Micheal Redd, or trade for Mayo.

    JR Smith or Mayo/Brewer/Redd

    Now thats a team that can ball, there's 3 more shooters and our starting line-up would be just as athletic as the Heat's. Get it done Gar/Pax!

  • In reply to calle3:

    Iggy is a worse shooter than Deng, I don't see that the swap achieves.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    But he's better at everything else. He can create, dribble, and run a fast break. He can be Rose's running mate, Deng is too stiff.

  • In reply to calle3:

    He kind of needs the ball though, Deng is a better off ball player. I'm not sure that playing next to a ball dominant guard is where Iggy shines. He broke out after Iverson was traded after all.

  • In reply to calle3:

    I have been reading this blog for a year, and finally decided to make an account, so firstly would like to say that it's my favorite discussion board as you (Doug) always have a realistic insight of the situation and free of the fan boy pipe dream crap.

    I think that after watching this team for a year, you have a whole team of smart players (with a couple of glaring exceptions) but for the most part it is what people call a smart team. I think this is the problem, no? You have 10 smart guys who only want to make the right play, which is not always there. Therefore I think that what the roster is missing, is a dumb player. A shoot first player who can create his own shot. I think you know I'm talking about JR Smith. Yes, he's a moron, yes he takes things into his own hands offensively where he shouldn't, but this is someone who fills all the gaps in the line up. I don't think at this point he would be that much of a locker room poison due to how tight the locked room is. I got so sick of, during the Heat series, watching an offense playing around with the ball and trying to get Derrick a shot where there was none, when all it needed was one moron to take a bad shot, I mean the bulls seem to get the offensive boards half the time anyway, that's honestly half the reason that there was a 62 win season. Seems like a better option than turning it over constantly and not having a shot at all.

    He's what.. only 25 anyway, not everybody peaks in maturity by the age of 22.

    On a digression, how many points were made off DRose 3 ball misses? I'd be interested to see.

  • This was outstanding...100% spot on.

    I'm not crazy about the idea of including Deng in any package for Howard.A legitimate shooting guard significantly changes that 60-40 scale w/respect to Miami, Boozer will be healthier, Derrick will get better-yep better, and I'll take our chances against Miami.

    The idea that Miami steamrolled through us is simply wrong-as you so effectively illustrate. A confluence of unlikely shit led to the premature/sad end to this series.

    There is no need for wholesale changes, for impulsive reactions.

    And thank you for debunking this idea that LBJ turned Derrick into a 4th grade girls basketball player.

    You cant fix stupid-but I admire this laudable attempt friend.

  • In reply to koolking83:


  • In reply to koolking83:

    Iggy! I forgot about him! I really like that idea, what would it take?

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    his salary for 11/12 is 13.5 mil I believe. Has another year after that, then a player option in 13/14

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I don't really see how you'd get Iggy without sending Deng, which kind of defeats the purpose.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    draft picks + expirings (totalling 5 mil) + Brewer/Korver

  • If the Bulls get a SG that can give them at least 10-12ppg (consistantly)...the Bulls might have won the series. Our D was awesome...In 4 games the Bulls kept Miami to under 90pts at the end of regulation. Im counting the OT game in there. Bulls just need another scorer or someone else to create.

    The Dwight Howard idea is pretty awesome....but it would be a face lift. If 1 of those deals go down...your looking at a squad like this...

    Rose, Watson
    FA this summer?, Brewer
    Boozer, FA? Draft Pick?
    Dwight, Asik

    Ur defense goes down with the loss of Noah,Deng an Gibson. But you do get back Dwight Howard who probably makes up for 2 of those losses...maybe 3. Im sure you can find some solid players to fill in the empty spots as well.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Dwight Howard single handedly made Orlando a top 5 defensive unit. Deng/Taj/Noah are all nice defensive players but none are game changers. Dwight dominates games on BOTH sides, not even Rose does that. Dwight would have a LeBron like impact on the Bulls.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Bulls Get:
    C Dwight Howard

    Magic Gets:
    C Joakim Noah
    G James Harden
    F Nick Collison

    Thunder Gets:
    F Carlos Boozer


  • In reply to BullsFTW:

    No way the Thunder does it and I can't see the Magic doing it either, even if Howard demands to come to Chicago.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    The biggest difference between 2010 summer and 2011 summer is 2011 Rose. Does anyone else think that LeBron wouldn't have thought of signing in Chicago if it was 2011 summer! Nobody in their dreams expected Rose to make this MVP leap in one year. I wish we had Thibs instead of Vinny to show how good Rose was for the FA 2010 class.
    That's why I am confident that a lot of dis-gruntled stars in losing situations and small markets will try to force a trade into Chicago(Kevin Love, Dwight Howard,Josh Smith, Igoudala,Bargnani, Monta Ellis)to play with Rose. GarPax have to go for it when they have the opportunity. It might even be taking a step back.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    If you can get Dwight Howard, you do it. Quite simply, Howard and Rose would shred Miami IMO. They'd have absolutely no one who could even pretend to contend with Howard without an automatic double, and that would leave Rose open to crush them from the perimeter.

    However, we likely can't get Howard. If we can, we do it, there's no reason to really discuss it too much though because if it can happen it's so obvious to make it happen that there's not any room to argue.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Why don't you think the Bulls can get him? We have a lot of assets! IMO, it's ONLY between the Bulls and LA. Why would he go to NJ like some at ESPN are saying? He doesn't want to play in a small market, we know that, so take out OKC. It's between the Bulls and Lakers. People are not so sure LA will offer them much more than Bynum and that's not better than our best deal.

  • In reply to sukid09:

    I'll say this, Doug. If Pat Riley was running the Chicago Bulls, I can GUARANTEE he would get Howard. It's up to Paxson and Forman to push the envelope and really come up with a great deal for Orlando and WE HAVE the assets.

  • In reply to sukid09:

    I think what is disappointing about Noah isn't the field goal percentage, it's that he really wasn't aggressive in trying to make shots. He averaged 15/13 last playoffs and when healthy to start the year because he looked for his own offense and attacked. But against Miami they were scared of his passing so they were giving him the room to attack but he was too hesitant to go at them. Even when he did try it was after a couple of seconds looking for the pass so they had time to close it off.

    IMO it's a confidence thing related to injury and I expect Noah will be better next year. His defense and passing were great as always, but when he finds ways to score the odd non-garbage bucket as well he's a genuine all-star.

    Pretty much agree that the Bulls aren't too far off, I said very early in the year that they were an Afflalo type away from being title favourites. If you had someone like Afflalo who can hit the three and isn't going to be abused by LeBron/Wade like Korver was it's a different series.

    I don't even know if the Bulls need to make a trade to get that guy, they're the sorts of players you can get late in the draft, Draft Express has the Bulls taking Marshon Brooks with the Miami pick and he looks like a guy who could contribute right away and hit open threes while providing some good defense and solid all around play. Of course he could be a bust too, but I'm just saying I'm not devastated if the Bulls decide to use their two first rounders to take a couple of college senior SGs who are NBA ready and hope one of them works out.

    If Noah & Boozer can get healthy and we can get a real shooting guard to replace Bogans I think this is a top 10 offensive team ... could even nudge the top 5 depending on how good the SG is. People really got down on Boozer but before he did his ankle he was killing it on offense. And I can't believe people are saying Taj is a two way player but Noah isn't! When he's playing with confidence Noah is actually above average for a center at scoring, and well above average at ballhandling, passing and offensive rebounding. Noah is just so key in so many ways to beating the Heat, we need his versatility on defense that we saw but we also need him to score against their weak front line.

    Unsurprisingly I'm going to disagree on Chris Paul completely though. The stats show New Orleans has the most efficient crunch time offense in the league. You don't want your star player taking the shot, you want the guy who is in the best position to hit the shot taking the shot. If that means passing the ball, pass the damn ball. Chris Paul seems to be one of the few stars in the league who understands this. He's so good at it that NO score 107 points per 100 possessions in crunch time, the league average is 80. By not hogging the ball Chris Paul is an amazingly good clutch player.

    (Stats from http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time)

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Joakim MUST get a 15ft jump shot if he wants to help the Bulls in the future. I don't think his defence/rebounding/passing/dribbling needs much work as I can't see much room for improvemnet in those areas


    A jumpshot makes him into the outside threat he has to be (ala Kurt) to help Derrick get more open on the p'n'r.

    So this is to you Joakim

    2000 made jumpshots everyday in the off season

  • In reply to Jersey66:

    He was taking and hitting the jump shot until he injured his hand, in the first month of the season I think he shot 50% on it. Still with his form it's only something you'd ever shoot if wide open so it's not like it really adds much to his game.

    I mean there aren't many centers in the league that can hit the jump shot well enough that you'd feel like you had to stick with them on a pick and roll rather than worry about Rose. If a Kurt Thomas type takes two mid-range jumpers a game and hits one (which is what he did this season) they'll live with that.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    I don't believe Deng is going anywhere. Deng is probably the Paul Pierce of the Bulls. I don't believe he's going anywhere anytime soon. It wouldn't surprise me if Deng was here his whole career.

  • No, it hasn't been successful, guys like Kobe who go ISO heavy have won titles because he built the lead by playing team basketball before crunch time. During crunch time they've sucked.

    The stats are pretty cut and dried here, if Chris Paul's NO team averages 107 points / 100 possessions in crunch time and Kobe's Lakers average 82, I don't see how you can argue for ISO star ball over pass first play. I mean Paul has his team playing at the league average efficiency, Kobe has his playing at a level that you have to go back to the 1950s to find a team that was that inefficient over the entire game.

    It's really simple, pass the ball and run plays like it's the start of the first quarter and you score like it's the start of the first quarter. Play 1 on 5 and you have about as much success as you deserve playing 1 on 5. If your memory happens to remember the times when Kobe has hit the shot and the times when Paul's team mates have missed the shot then sure, you're going to say Chris Paul is wrong. Thankfully we don't have to rely on our faulty memories though, the NBA tracks every game that's played, and we know for a fact that Chris Paul runs the best crunch time offense over the past 5 years.

    The conventional wisdom is just plain wrong here. You don't want your star player taking all the shots (heck, even Bulls fans selectively realise this when they want to, remember how MJ is supposed to be a genius for passing the ball to Kerr and Paxson?)

  • You're relying on your faulty memory and only remembering the 1 in 3 shots Kobe makes, not the 2 in 3 he misses.

    If he's actually so great a clutch player then why does his team only score 82 points per 100 when Paul's scores 107 in crunch time? Kobe has had MUCH better team mates so that can't be it.

  • Yes, and as I keep saying, the stats show that Chris Paul's team makes plays at a much better rate than Kobe's does. Kobe's Lakers are so bad during crunch time that they've actually been outscored by their opponent during that time over the last two years (seriously, go read the link in my first post and the posts it links to).

    Putting the ball in the hoop is what matters, not how spectacular you look beating all 5 defenders trying to do it. I don't see how you can argue against the cold hard fact that Chris Paul's team has the stats to prove that what he does works.

  • Because Chris Paul is going to win a championship when he's playing with the highly over rated David West (seriously, how did that guy make two all-star teams) and crap?

    Teams with good players win championships. Chris Paul has never been on a team with good players. I just hope he doesn't find one once he opts out of his contract, because having a top 5 player in the league stuck on a crappy team is great for the Bulls.

  • The last two seasons being 08-09 and 09-10 ... the Lakers won the championship both years. How much better do you want them to be!

    I'm going on those years because that's the stats the article has. If you think that the Kobe/Shaq era Lakers would provide different data go ahead and find the play by play data and analyse it, because I'm sure not going to bother when the main point, that Chris Paul does get it done in crunch time, is already supported by the data at hand.

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