Am I unAmerican for not being amped about Osama Bin Laden's death?

Sometimes you write something and going into it, you figure it's probably going to be a mistake, that people will take it the wrong way, and that you'll regret it.   Yet, you write it anyway.   This is one such time.

I really don't get the same sense of joy everyone else seems to get with Osama Bin Laden's death. 

No, I'm not a hippy, tree hugging, don't kill anyone type guy.  I'm all for capital punishment in cases of murder where there's absolute proof. 

Nor do I feel any sympathy for Bin Laden in anyway because of US aggressions driving him to his actions or any other such thing.   Quite frankly, I'm not politically aware enough to pretend I know what the US is doing overseas.

Maybe I just have a hard time celebrating death.   When I heard the news, my first thought was to wonder, does this really make anything better or did we just create another martyr?  

Granted, in this case neither side was going to live and let live.   The US isn't going to go easy on terrorists, nor are terrorists going to drop their cause and go back to their day jobs.   

There was no other end game to this situation, and when it comes to terrorists, I'm not sure there's ever a different end game.  As noted above, I'm for capital punishment, so I'm all for wiping them out rather than spending a 100k a year to imprison each guy for the rest of his life.

That said, I have a hard time celebrating death, even when one could not be more  deserved.  I felt awkward and embarrassed watching the footage of baseball stadiums chanting USA and people celebrating everywhere.   When I heard the news, it just made me remember 911, and maybe that's a good thing.   To remember the people we lost.

I was just overwhelmed with sadness.   Sadness that so many innocent people died nearly a decade ago.   Sadness that there are people out there waging a war of terror, going after innocents.   That we have to fight against this kind of thing while knowing that we do have to fight it.

It was a victory in the war on terror last night, but it didn't comfort me any.  It just made me realize that we're still in a war, one we're always winning yet may never win. 

Comments

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  • I don't think you're un-American, Doug. You stated the reason for your feeling-you can't find it in you to celebrate a death. Nothing wrong with that.

    Personally, while I'm glad bin Laden's dead, I'm not going to build a party around the event or anything. Bin Laden was a symptom, nothing more.

  • In reply to Nossem:

    Tom, I think we still have to acknowledge bin Laden was a person and that anyone given the right circumstances is capable of what he did. We need to know that in order to prevent it. When I saw the paper this morning I was satisfied that he was killed and I am for the death penalty. Keeping him imprisoned would have spurred much more terrorism so this was our one option. I agree with doug though and I don't really see this as a huge victory or one to celebrate. We do need to celebrate the lives of victims, not the death of a terrorist.

  • In reply to mepeterser2451:

    I have to disagree completely with the statement that "given the right circumstances anyone is capable of what he did". Circumstances don't determine one's actions. Sure a kid that grows up in a family surrounded by drugs and violence has a greater chance of failure, but they are also gifted with the ability to make their own reasonable and logical moral decisions. It didn't take religion or law to help early humans realize murder is wrong, they deduced this on their own through reason. I believe that a person with the ability to think logically and confront their own questions of moral reason would never do the things he did regardless of what their life experiences were. What we have(had) in Osama Bin Ladin is a clear case of a socio-path much like Hitler, who was captivated by power and took pleasure in seeing how he could manipulate and bend the mind of those around him to believe in whatever he felt necessary. People like Osama Bin Ladin aren't a result of circumstance, they are the exception to human conscience. Sure, Osama's environment and experiences helped him along to the life he lived, but they are not responsible for his actions, they are not responsible for his lack of basic, human, rational morals.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    To say that Osama and his followers are an exception to the rest of the world is a bit naive. I agree that Osama may not have been mentally all there. Besides these small differences though people are essentially the same genetically. Logic can only be used based on observations or experiences. If you could use logic then you would know that. The chicken doesn't come before the egg. Also, even a cat learns not to murder because it benefits itself to have a family. In human society, we live in a very crowded world where we depend on "ghosts" to fill our grocery stores or to deliver our mail. We don't realize the benefit of our neighbors so therefore murder is going to increasingly be an issue. Why do you think so much terrorism is coming from the middle east? Because they are poor and want what we have. That can be seen anywhere, the middle east or south side Chicago. So to say that the US wouldn't produce many desperate murderers like Osama and his crew if we became as poor as the middle east, that again is naive and you definitely aren't using logic. Now if you admit that people are the same, then thats one step towards preventing it from happening.

  • In reply to mepeterser2451:

    Considering we are all alive and reasonably well I believe it is fine to celebrate the success of our armed forces and increased safety of our nation. Did we not celebrate our independance at the competion of the Revolutionary War? Do we not still celebrate it every single July?

  • I hear Al Qaida lost their power forward last night. Career ending injury...

  • I agree with you 100%. While I believe that if anyone on Earth deserved to die, it would be Bin Laden, I am of the opinion that celebrating his death like one celebrates a sports team's victory may not be the best way to handle the situation. Quietly and pensively remembering 9/11 as well as all the other acts of terrorism effected by this evil human being, imho, would be a much better way of "celebrating" his passing. The world is watching our reactions as Americans; that includes the expansive network of Bin Laden-trained al Qaeda terrorists who ARE still alive and probably getting more and more agitated now that their leader has been killed.

    Thank you for this piece, Doug.

  • I am happy for those who lost someone on 9/11 or someone fighting to stop terrorism.

  • Agree with Doug. Although Bin Laden probably deserved it, I don't know how other people are celebrating like that. A man's life was taken.

  • I know where you're coming from. I don't think I was happy or sad as much as I was just numb to the news. maybe its the fact that it came 10 years later. maybe it's the part of me that wonders if this could've been achieved a while ago. obviously I called who I could to spread the news, but the thought of outwardly celebrating is something that never crossed my mind. perhaps it's like you said... the death brings reminders of those that lost their lives due to this man. that's actually a very sobering thought. I imagine it'll be the same sensation the day Fidel Castro dies. being the son of Cuban parents I know how much joy that event would bring to my family and an entire exile community but I'm not sure I'd be able to muster the same enthusiasm.

  • I don't think you are un-American, but if you are, so am I. I feel the exact same way you feel. Yes, he probably deserved it, but I find it hard to celebrate death. Well put Doug, now let's get back to basketball.

  • GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

    As someone who was in Washington D.C. on his way to NYC on 9/10/01, before my friend in NY had to cancel our plans, which sent me back to Chicago on a train only to see the devastation and immense loss of life when I got home, I'm pretty damn happy that the mastermind of those attacks and FACE OF EVIL is dead!!!

    That said, I feel sorry for all those who lost a loved one on that tragic day and I feel sympathy for my friend who still struggles emotionally, like a lot of New Yorkers, to get those awful images out of her head of people having to choose between jumping or burning to death.

    Let their be PEACE in this world.

    That's up to the YOUTH of this WORLD!!!

    Amen.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    well put Happy. I bet you think about those canceled plans nearly every day, glad you're ok

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Doug, I hope you basketball insights make more sense than your political views.

  • In reply to robert:

    First time to the site, jackass?

  • In reply to robert:

    yeah, fuck off sir

  • In reply to robert:

    I hope so too since I spend orders of magnitude more time on basketball than politics.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Apparently you have much more overall sense than some of your readers.

  • In reply to robert:

    Which includes a colossal asswipe named Robert...

  • In reply to robert:

    Maybe I've seen too many Tom Clancy movies, but I was surprised when I heard we didn't know where bin laden was hiding out. I just assumed we had him under surveillance the while time because it was more valuable to know who he was talking to than to kill him...

  • In reply to robert:

    Celebrating Bin Laden

  • Honestly, I'm not sure this belongs on a sports blog, but I give Doug credit for having the balls and moral principles to do it anyway. I'm actually against the death penalty. Yet hypocritically I believe Bin Laden should have been shot on sight for war crimes/mass murder lest international bodies get involved/he wiggles out of prosecution or escapes. For some reason war crimes/mass murder, that's just an exception to the rule for me as far as a death sentance. I agree that celebrating waving flags when we have propped up dictators in so many of these terrorist recruited countries is somehwat dubious. However if I was a family member or close friend of a victim of 9/11 I'd probably be inclined to publicly express support for his destruction.

  • In reply to MikeKeane:

    I think news this big ends up everywhere. They were discussing it on Sportscenter this morning, and my blog certainly has a lot less rules about what it covers than ESPN.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I agree. I wrote about it on my own blog as well. It's news that transcends sports for a day.

    http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/cubs-den/2011/05/can-bin-ladens-death-unify-polarized-us.html

    Also had similar mixed feelings about the wild celebrations but I do understand it. Justice is a basic human need and there's a lot of pent up emotion about 9/11.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    When did Chicago Now turn into CNN.com?

    Focus on the Bulls, let the political news outlets focus on world politics!

  • In reply to sukid09:

    I'm sure no one in the world outside of myself went into work today and discussed this today.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Nobody said you couldnt discuss it. I simply said this site "promotes" Bulls analysis, not international politics.

  • In reply to sukid09:

    Really, because it looks like you said:

    "Focus on the Bulls, let politcal news outlets focus on world politics!" which is far as I can tell is very explicitly telling me not to discuss it.

    As I've said in other places, it's a story big enough that I think it will be discussed everywhere.

    While this is a Bulls community, it is a community (or at least I feel it is and hope others do too). In any niche based community, occasionally a story is big enough to warrant discussion outside of the niche.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I would just like to point out that the top headline on ESPN.com right is Osama Bin Laden killed in Pakistan.

    This is news that transends topic constraints. Personally, I didn't know how to feel about it this morning. It was kind of comforting to check the first site I check every morning and realize I'm not alone.

    I have a MUCH bigger issue with Fred Pfiefer posting his Cubs podcast every few weeks....:)

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Don't see how you could have ignored it. 9/11 was the most momentous single event in any of our lives.

    No one would have faulted you for not posting on it, but while I do believe that we should leave the polarized politics of our society off the sports pages, this one was about our nation, not about our politics as some are already trying to make it.

    I am just as abivalent about the appropriate reaction as you are.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    and furthermore, let the numbers speak for themselves. 70+ comments up to this point

    Obviously people want to discuss this, & really what's ever wrong with discussion?

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Good point. All we are doing is discussing and there are some people upset about it. These are the types of people who do not want to hear the other point of view and will try to impose their view...that's what Bin Laden was.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    As someone who has lived abroad and agrees with Doug, I find some of these responses simplistic and naive. Although Curious E and evilhoban won

  • In reply to WyomingBullsFan:

    I will never understand Radical Islam's treatment of women. Osama's family held a female Muslim hostage during the shoot out and subsequently caused her death. So cowardly. I know not all Muslims are extremists, not all Muslims belittle women and revoke their god given rights. But I never hear opposition from the Muslim community hear in America. Never hear them denounce radicalism. However, the Arab Revolutions across the Middle East have given me hope. Seems like the youths are starting to look beyond ideology.

  • In reply to Jmax:

    Don't go there and start making stereotypical assumptions about all American Muslims. What do you think American Muslims have to do? They are like you and me. They have their families, kids and finances etc.. to take care off. Do you want them to setup some stage and scream from a Microphone in Downtown Chicago?
    We wouldn't care about Arabs if they were not going around killing innocents. I agree that it is slowly changing in their world on how tolerance becomes a part of their culture.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    "We wouldn't care about Arabs if they were not going around killing innocents."
    Don't stereotype Americans. I would care. Radical Islam's treatment of women is something I'll never ignore.
    If I stereotyped Muslim Americans then I apologize

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    On a lighter note, did Thibs plan the whole operation. It looked like a very well executed operation from how they disposed his body, not letting the Pakistanis know anything and making sure there is proof that there are no doubters.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Thibs could not have been involved as his screaming would have been louder than the approaching hellicopters and would have alerted everyone that an attack was coming.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I agree with Doug, I found the crazy cheering to be a bit unseemly.

    It seems beneath us, and more like the crazy crowds in the mideast, pakistan and elsewhere.

    I am thrilled that we killed him, have no qualms whatsoever about the taking of a "human" life in this case.

    However, the scenes of crowds celebrating outside the whitehouse and timesquare just didn't seem right. Then again it did seem like just a bunch of college students with nothing better to do than try to get on youtube.

    I am happy that we finally got the job done, but not deleriously celebratory as I will be or would be when/if the Bulls beat the heat to get to the NBA finals, or beat the Lakers to win it all.

  • In reply to Jmax:

    I don't think American Muslims should have to denounce anything. If most people paid attention to the world around them, they would know Radical Islam is in the tiniest minority of the faith. It's like asking all Republicans to apologize for Michelle Bachman...

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    Tiniest minority that has had an enormous and egregious impact on both Muslims and Christians across the world.

    Americans/Christians speak out against Radical Islam everyday. Why not non-radical Muslims? Both parties have suffered. What would Christians do if their radical followers were blowing up Starbucks everyday? They would certainly speak out against the terrorism.

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    thats funny equating a US congresswoman with the millions(and yes there are millions, if not tens or hundreds of millions) of islamic militant terrorists around the world.

    But hey that is how liberals talk and behave, because well, you know they are just smarter than everybody else.

    How tolerant and civil of you, and naive also.

    But then again you are evil(self proclaimed), so what should we expect.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    +1

  • In reply to BigWay:

    you never miss an oportunity to take a shot at the left do you?

  • In reply to Jmax:

    I feel differently than you Doug, but it doesn't bother me in the least that you or anyone else feels differently on the matter.

    This whole saga has evoked all kinds of emotions and feelings from all of us ... each different in their own way. I would suspect that it varies for each of us.

    I don't feel as though I'm celebrating his death so much as celebrating what his death means for people all around the world.

    I wrote this to my sister earlier this morning:
    "In my opinion, it's a little harder to be a terrorist today than it was yesterday ... Yesterday, they could wake up and say to themselves, 'They can't stop me, just look at OBL. He attacked them and they can't even find him!'. Today, they wake up knowing that even after 10 years, we'll hunt you down and kill you if you make us your enemy. It won't stop them from trying to attack us, but now they know what will happen to them if they do. We won't just give up and quit."

    I've never believed that ridding ourselves of one man was going to solve this problem.
    However, the positives ... and I believe there are more of them than we may be able to see right now ... will far outweigh the negatives.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    very good points

  • In reply to WyomingBullsFan:

    Sorry to hear you're so disheartened by "Americans like CuriousE." Yes, sorry, I'm an original thinker who doesn't link to MSN articles.

    Democracy Now. Al Jazeera. BBC. Ever read those outlets? Please begin. Seriously, you are sorely lacking perspective. And your logical reasoning? ". . . depicting America and its 'Military complex' as the root of all evil, all the while refusing to acknowledge such obvious differences in how we treat women and gays." Huh?

    Of course anyone who has studied the history of terrorism will understand that Osama bin Laden had almost as little to do with organizing the attacks on 9/11 as did Saddam Hussein. The only connection bin Laden and sidekick Ayman Zawahiri had to the 9/11 plot was to help recruit volunteers and provide seed money for the author and organizer of

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    You are clearly lost, go back to media matters, the puffington host and other bastions of leftist lunacy.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    reading this blog all this time and I had no idea until now you were a Commie bastard!!! AMERICAN MY ASS!!!

    Jusjokes, man...you nailed my sentiment spot on. The only death i intend to toast is my own.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    Christiane Amanpour, Lara Logan, George Stephanopoulos, Russ Mitchel

  • In reply to WyomingBullsFan:

    Okay, you're a Neocon. You're just as brainwashed as these terrorists you claim to know. You probably still think Saddam had WMDs, that Osama was behind 9/11, and the Palestinians are sub-human. And, oh, you didn't address about 98 percent of what I had to say. Facts are obstacles for you, clearly.

    Do us all a favor. Read the Shock Doctrine. It will shake up your little world.

    And Doug, the problem with your post (which, again, was a good one) is that it opens to door to Ugly Americans like Wyoming.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    It's amazing how completely ignorant you are of history. There isn't a leader in the civilized world who will debate that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction in the 1980's. He used them in the Iran-Iraq war. He also used them to murder over 5000 of his own people on March 16, 1998 in Halabja, Iraq. I've met Iranians whose lungs were damaged in that war because of his use of chemical weapons. Where were you in the 1980's? I encourage you to start reading NonFictional books. They're fun too.

    What is in question is what happened to them in the interim between the Gulf War and the start of the 2nd Gulf War.

    So CuriousE, were all these members of the Clinton administration in on the big Conspiracy too? Tell us Mr. 9/11 Truther. And please stop disrespecting our President with your ignorant comments.

    "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
    - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

    "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
    - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

    "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
    - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

    "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
    - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

    "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

    "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
    - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

    "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
    - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

    "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
    - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

    "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
    - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

    "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
    - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
    - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
    - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

    "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
    - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

    "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
    - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

    "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
    - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

    "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep.
    - Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
    - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

    "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
    - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

    "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
    - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    Hey Curious E, "Who you crapping?"

  • In reply to Jmax:

    What a clever turn of phrase, Jmax. You're probably just another blind patriot marching towards the cliff. Ask some questions, do some more reading, and stop buying the Neocon product, dude!

  • In reply to Jmax:

    Top notch. I read you every day and have recommended you to friends, but I just created this user account to commend you on this post, which is better than anything I've read from the political pundits.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    Wow. This is why I love this place... Not only is everyone here as crazy as I am with the Bulls, but this truly is a community, and I must say how impressed I am with this discussion and the tolerance and respect everyone has shown. When I saw this Post, I thought I was going to open up a hornets nest once I started reading the comments..but no...looks like most of us here are sane and reasonable people...I guess they do still exist.

  • In reply to zmorg77:

    Until you bring up Keith Bogans or Ben Gordon... ;-)

  • In reply to zmorg77:

    though it's debatable whether death is an appropriate conclusion to osama's demise, it is naive to think that he wouldn't have died at our hands anyway. and we can all bicker about whether or not it's the most moral and ethical response to his ABSOLUTE BLASPHEMY he pulled ten years ago, i think you're all nuts. but on a more respectful note, i agree with some of you that death is not the most ideal ending, but honestly, he authorized the killing of thousands just as obama ordered the killing of him. so think about what you're saying i guess...

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I couldn't agree more. It seems very strange to celebrate death, whomever it may be. And the chanting of USA also seemed awkward and out of place. It would be great to think we cut the head off a snake, but it's more likely we stuck our hand in a hornets nest.
    I am grateful that those who lost loved ones may feel a sense of peace and closure now.

  • In reply to MikeKeane:

    Slippery slope. Would you consider killing civilians with drones "war crimes" or "mass murder"?

  • In reply to LittleAlex:

    People in the Arab world and East always have felt that the West thinks lives are cheap there. Is that perception or reality, I am not an expert on that. It is almost like a 1:5(West:East) ratio of life importance(again, I think this is a perception).

  • In reply to LittleAlex:

    Couldn't help but imagine the Department of Homeland Security overseeing the Navy Seal operation with Stacey King yelling "give me the hot sauce" in the background as our troops pummel Osama and his cronies.

  • In reply to MikeKeane:

    This is why I like this blog. No/very few morons posting pathetic statements. Even on an issue like Bin Laden this blog's followers are mature and respectful of other positions.

    As a non american; I too felt some degree of satisfaction at his death but it just really opens more question: the big ones being how many of the Pakistan Intelligence Service are actual supporters of Al Qaieda? And how much can we trust agencies in other countries?

    We often see Islamist Fundamentals celebrating the deaths of Americans; burn effigies of Presisents etc and my thoughts are of unknowlegeable idiots being lead by a very few Fundamentalists just because its "fun" to do. And I have to say tis morning when I saw the crowds of Americans doing similar and chanting USA my one thought was you are no better than them. I don't need telling you (you all seem wise and intelligent people on this blog) how Americans are perceived outside America and I'm afraid such acts of public celebration of Bin Laden's death does nothing to change that view and if anything will reinforce the views of the Fundamentalists who oppose the American (and British because we too try to be the world police sticking our noses into places it shouldn't be) way of life.

    Obama's speech was perfect. And if that had been the Headline on Al Jazeera then America would have gained a lot of credibilty from this episode. But one of the main story on British News channels is America's response to the killing and the crowds of celebraters. Yes we can all be thankful he is not around anymore but the way we do that and how it is therefore portrayed in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan matters even more than the death itself.

    When we put ourselves up as the paragons of virtue we have to act in a way that does not add fuel to the detractors. Celebrating Bin Laden's death in my view does nothing but fan the flames of hate towards America (and a lessor extent Britain).

  • In reply to Jersey66:

    Nice post...If you see the type of people celebrating yesterday night near the WH, it was mostly college kids in their school jerseys,sweatshirts.
    But that said, the way the news media has portrayed Bin Laden after 2001, it had made him some kind of a villainous God-like monster. That influences a lot of people into feeling they have some kind of final victory now like passing a final exam or winning a final game. That shows everybody has flaws. That said, if people were mature/calm like you are...they would have just been happy that a bad virus has been killed.

  • In reply to Jersey66:

    Since Bin is dead, that Egyptian doctor just takes over.
    Bin is just one of many. He was allowed to be the public face because he provided most of the money.
    He did show that terrorism can produce results - like getting the US to remove his hated rival, Saddam, under the pretext of cooperating with Bin.
    He got the US military out of his homeland, Saudi Arabia, which was one of his stated goals of terrorism.

    I just wished he would have suffered a little more & that we hung him from his heels at Ground Zero rather than feeding him to the fishes

  • I'm with you....good closure for those who lost someone, but I don't want to run up and down the streets singing the national anthem because mass murder got shot in the face. Definitely bitersweet...

    Hopefully a Bulls win will help!

  • I felt revulsion as soon as I opened ESPN.com this morning and saw some hare-brained American sports fan holding his USA shirt out with a sh*t-eating grin.

    I'm saddened to see how many stooges we still have in this country, for as tragic and violent as 9/11 was, a war in two countries in an insane, immoral and unjust response. Was Bin Laden killed by our soldiers or a drone or a Stealth bomber? No, just a Secrets Ops team, the same kind of team that could have been deployed WITHOUT two illegal wars.

    Now we get Obama and Bush puffing out their chest as if killing Bin Laden was some great accomplishment ... 10 years later. Meanwhile, over 100,000 people (including Iraqi civilians and American soldiers - both mere pawns in the grasp of America's military complex) have been killed in Iraq, a country where they was scarcely any "terrorist" activity. Are they going to brag about that too? No, it won't be mentioned anywhere.

    9/11 was a horrific event, and a boyfriend of a good friend of mine was killed . . . and several colleagues of my father were killed. But our response has been much more horrific, as innocents across Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan are killed every day by American hands. And defense contractors get a little bit richer every day.

    We wrap ourselves in the flag and saw "God Bless America." Would the founding father approve of pre-emptive war? And what would Christ say?

    I'll finish with a fact. We here the extraordinary amount of money given to defense and the two wars (or three, if you count Libya), but how about this: 28 percent of our 2010 taxes went to the military.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    Nicely put.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    Whatever Doug. I'm just happy CJ Watson did not fcuk the whole operation in advance by tweeting about it. Just sayin.

  • In reply to adocarbog:

    Funny

  • In reply to adocarbog:

    CJ has tons of followers, but no one reads what he writes.

    He once retweeted a link to a story I posted about him, and I thought wow, this dude had over 300k followers, I'm going to get some good traffic.

    At that time I was averaging about 2000 pageviews per story, and that story was exactly the same, not even a perceptible blip of 200 clicks or so.

    So not even 3 hundredths of a percent of people following CJ clicked on a link to an article about CJ playing well that he tweeted.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    are there times when you do notice certain spikes or increased activity? I'm curious

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I don't check regularly enough to pay any particular attention, but as a general rule, my activity spikes as the news around the NBA picks up.

    Trade deadline it was huge, FA it was huge, etc..

    At the beginning the pageviews were small enough that I would notice a spike if I were linked on blogabull or somewhere else, but that's not really the case anymore as I get linked pretty regularly out there on the web.

  • In reply to adocarbog:

    I think the reason we don't really know how to react is because it has been so long and unless you have someone really close who passed away in that event, most of us do not have the mental capacity to feel this event sensitively from so far away with all our daily problems and issues.

    That said, these kind of people(Bin Laden) are so extreme that the inspiration to other extreme people will hopefully lessen. But, I disagree he was just a symbol nowadays. These type of movements do not go away unless the chief guy(even if he is not doing anything) is gone.

  • In reply to adocarbog:

    Actually, I'm pretty impressed by how focused and polite this discourse is, as whenever realgm goes political, it's pretty much a disaster. It's funny. I am against capital punishment and was against both wars, but I find myself relatively happy with this outcome. I've never really opposed going to get him. I don't quite relate to the jubilant party vibe some have adopted, though, as it's still death, and the greater issues surrounding Bid Laden, terrorism, the wars are far from resolved.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    Absolutely agree. Justice was served with Bin Laden's death. When will there be a trial of war criminals Bush and Cheney? The number of innocent deaths they caused dwarfs 9/11.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    I agree with you evilhoban, & johnfriendly here, agree 100%, well said.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    I celebrated with a fist pump; no more, no less. I am happy today knowing Bin Laden is dead. It is just your personal preference how you choose to react. It seems absolutely ridiculous to judge those people celebrating over at the White House, this tragedy affected everyone differently, so to pass judgment on those celebrating seems asinine. Pretend for a second that not everyone shares your frame of reference and was affected the same way you were. Its almost akin to criticizing someone for not crying at a funeral. I salute those celebrating in front of the White House, their passion, whether misplaced or not, is the lifeblood of this country.

  • I'm not saying anyone is wrong for whatever their emotions are, as I certainly understand how evil this dude was.

    However, how often do you see people chanting and celebrating justice though? In the case of really negative events like say rape/murder, people seem not to celebrate justice as much as to remember the victims of the crime.

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