Jerry Krause for the Hall of Fame?

Jerry Krause for the Hall of Fame?

Interesting read from K.C. Johnson:

"Phil Jackson was on his way out of basketball. Krause spotted him
coaching the Albany Patroons. Phil wrote in one of his books he had
given up any chance of getting back in the NBA. He was about to go to
law school when Krause came after him. I also remember one of the things
Jerry said to me when I was interviewing him for the job was he was
going to get Tex Winter. I didn't know the triangle from a quadrangle.
But look at all the great teams he built."

Krause once told me
the roster he inherited from Rod Thorn in March 1985 featured Jordan and
11 players he wanted elsewhere. So he went to work.

In his 18 years with the Bulls, he drafted Charles Oakley, Horace
Grant, B.J. Armstrong, Perdue, Toni Kukoc and Elton Brand, among others.
He signed Ron Harper, John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Bill Wennington, Jud
Buechler, Randy Brown, Robert Parish and Brian Williams, among others.
And he traded for Pippen's draft rights, Bill Cartwright, Luc Longley
and Rodman.

What an interesting debate.    Some of his moves fall into the among the greatest moves of all time, and he clearly deserves quite a bit of credit for bringing the dynasty together.

Trading for Scottie Pippen?   One of the all time great trades in the NBA.

Bringing in Tex Winter and Phil Jackson, guys he personally sought out and tried to get, among the greatest GM moves (and most unlikely) in the history of the NBA.

Getting Toni Kukoc from Europe?   An ahead of the curve move around the league.  Krause got an elite talent out of Europe before it was cool.

He doesn't get credit for Horace Grant, whom he didn't want but only took because the coaching staff begged him, and while the team had other role players who helped out and memorable people, and Krause brought them in, the rest of the moves were largely of the variety that any GM probably would have made them.

Trading Will Perdue for Dennis Rodman turned out to be one of the great
trades in the NBA, but it was a win/win, and the trade was only possible because of the situation.   It was the type of move any GM would have done, so I don't give him that much credit for it despite the obvious 'steal' nature of it.

The case for Krause in the Hall of Fame largely hinges on Pippen, Kukoc, Jackson, and Winter.   Those are the moves that Krause really got some form of extreme value where he didn't just fall into them, but actively went out and made something happen that another GM likely would not have done.

Four moves may not sound like much, but where is this Bulls franchise without those moves?   I think they'd still win at least a couple of titles behind Jordan and competent moves elsewhere, but would they have won six?   Probably not.  

Would a head coach of someone other than Jackson been able to keep everyone motivated?   I don't really think so.   Even if the Bulls found another player as talented as Pippen would he have bought in to being #2 next to Jordan and found peace?   Maybe not.

Jordan was the nexus point of winning all of the titles, but Krause did more than just not screw it up.   He really maximized the opportunity.   Jordan played in only 11 full seasons for the Chicago Bulls and won six titles.    Given his teammates when he started, there was no way they were going to win the titles in the first few years.   It's near impossible to imagine that someone else could have acted as GM and won 7 or 8.

Most people probably would have won two or three.

That's the bright spot, and on that alone, maybe Krause is deserving.  How many GMs could you say made out of the box that most people wouldn't make that resulted in extra titles?   Most good moves that GMs make are a product of luck.   Krause made some great moves that were a product of his own genius.

Unfortunately, you have the rest.

He's the part most at fault for the breakup of the dynasty, because he never realized that he's not the talent.   He famously screamed at Phil Jackson "I don't care if you go 82-0, you're not coming back next year" in the final year of the Bulls dynasty.   His ego is the nexus of what drove the Bulls apart.

You can blame Jordan or Jackson for not helping the situation, but they were the irreplaceable talents.  Players and coaches around the league are drama queens.   It's management job to sooth those guys and keep them happy.  Krause's obligation is to play firefighter.   Jackson and Jordan's is to win basketball games.

Krause couldn't play firefighter though.  He couldn't even play innocent bystander.   He played lunatic who strapped a bunch of explosives onto a stolen oil truck and drove it into the united center at 150 miles an hour.

When the dynasty was over, and Krause had to rebuild, he had perhaps one of the worst runs as GM in the history of basketball.   He started with one of the worst coaching hires of all time.   Seriously, that's not an exaggeration.   Tim Floyd may literally be the worst NBA head coaching hire of all time.

He screwed up draft pick after draft pick.   His reputation prevented him from making quality trades, and he constantly set the franchise back over and over again by redoing everything again and again.    Even when he finally acquired some pieces he sent them out.  

The only decent rebuilding moves he made were undone almost immediately.   Bye bye Elton Brand, Ron Artest, and Brad Miller.   Hello Jalen Rose and Tyson Chandler.

Quite simply, nothing worked after the dynasty ended.  

Ironically, even though Krause did S&Ts for virtually every Bull from the dynasty error to help get them more money and land them in a better spot than they'd be if they stayed to rebuild, the organization still came off looking horrible.   An unfair perception put on the franchise by Krause that was even brought up this summer, 12 years later by Dwyane Wade.

And even though he had his ulterior motives, we couldn't immediately dismiss it.

With Krause, it's a double sided coin.  You could make an argument that Krause had one of the greatest five year slices of any GM in the history of the NBA and make an argument that he also had one of the worst five year slices in the history of the NBA.

Does that make him HOF worthy?   I don't know.   I do know that I would never trust Jerry Krause to run another NBA team.   I think his reputation would have prevented him from ever being successful again.   The rest of the NBA agreed with me.

When Krause eventually 'quit', he was never offered a job by any other
team in basketball.   He ended up at one point as a scout in the White
Sox organization since Reinsdorf was the only guy left who would hire
him, just not to be GM of the Bulls anymore.

Still, when we sit back and remember most people, we remember them for their successes.   Jerry's successes shine amongst the brightest of any GM.   Jerry's successes brought multiple titles to Chicago that a replacement GM probably wouldn't have.   As much as he deserves the ridicule for some failure, I'd gladly live through five years of 15 wins again if it brought me even one title.

On the whole, the scales balance out in Jerry's favor in his career with the Bulls even if we can never forgive him for how it ended.


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  • Another great article Doug!
    I agree the Bulls dynasty is worth a HOF nomination for Jerry! :-)

    People of genius, or even just very driven people can only go to the well so many times and bring forth amazing things, but eventually the well goes dry and word gets out about them, as they did about Jerry, and he couldn't pull off a block buster deal(s) like he did to drive the Bulls dynasty.

    The Lakers GM who traded for Pau Gasol is a Jerry of the Bulls dynasty, but then again LA always has that magical ora about it with the stars, sun, and Cali lifestyle...a similar case is in Miami now with players choosing where they will play and undermining GMs and their teams and playing for the name on the back of their jersey instead of the name on the front!

  • In reply to smiley:

    Pulling off the trade for Pau Gasol wasn't really all that impressive of a GM feat in a way though, the reason being that it was the type of move anyone would make if they could make it.

    That's why I feel most moves GMs make are kind of 'meh'. Most of the good moves are ones they fell into and are obvious.

    Things like trading for Scottie before people knew what he would be or plucking Jackson/Winter who were complete cast offs out of total obscurity, and then basically firing Doug Collins because he wouldn't listen to Tex Winter are moves that basically no one else in the world would have done outside of Krause.

    Moves that were then validated in huge ways.

    I think that's what impresses me the most.

  • In reply to DougThonus: maybe you should do an article on the triangle offense Doug! Does it work because it works, or does it work only when you have a Koby or a Jordan?


  • In reply to bentheredengthat:

    I think you could have run anything with Kobe and Shaq or Kobe and Gasol.

    Building an offense that works with a SG and SF is much tougher as we see how Miami is struggling with that same thing.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    How do you think the triangle would work in Miami? Sometimes I think it would be a solution to solve their offensive problems. Not that they have trouble scoring, I just think their offense would be tougher to stop if you had those weapons involved in a team-work/passing type of offense rather than just a bunch of guys running isolation plays.

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    1. They need to hire an expert on the triangle(somebody from the Lakers or Kurt Rambis)
    2. Do they have the mentality/time to learn and unlearn all the things they have learnt until now? These guys have another 3/4 years to win championships and they have to win next year...otherwise, they will get very, very desperate. MJ took 2 years off in his prime and preserved his body. It's not the same with Wade and LBJ

  • In reply to bentheredengthat:

    Krause definitely belongs in the HoF. The bulls don't even win one championship without Pippen, Jackson and Winters. Look at lebron, he hasn't gotten close to actually winning a championship. Trading Oakley for Cartwright was another gutsy move.

    As far as breaking up the dynasty, I'm not sure he cost the bulls even one additional trophy.

    His ego did prove to be his downfall. Floyd wasn't the worst hire ever, but not firing him sooner was a huge mistake driven by Krause's own hubris. But Krause believed that organizational stability was the key to success, and not recognizing that growing talent was equally as important was his biggest fault.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    Hell, Doug thinks Pippen would have won a championship with MJ, Phil and Winters.

    Of course, a solid GM given years could have won multiple championships with MJ.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    EDIT: Hell, Doug thinks Pippen would have won a championship withOUT MJ, Phil and Winters.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    I think under the right circumstances Pippen could have been the best player on a championship team, but I'm not really sure what you're referring to.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    If Grant stays, Jordan never returns, and the Bulls somehow bring in a different top-notch shooting guard (I dunno, someone on a Hornacek, Starks or Hawkins level), I could have seen that team compete for a title, not a 3-peat or anything, but a title. They got further in the playoffs that I expected the first year Jordan was gone, and wasn't that with Pete Myers in that spot?

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    You stated that on your most recent podcast, no?

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    The key to the Pau Gasol trade was Lakers drafting Marc Gasol in the 2nd round of 2007. Without Marc, I doubt Lakers get Pau - Marc played high school ball in Memphis and Grizzlies knew him personally.

    Was this Lakers foresight in drafting Marc Gasol? If so, it was an extremely impressive GM move! Without Pau, Kobe

  • In reply to Edward:

    But, did anybody think Marc Gasol would be such an impact player. Did Pau Gasol and his family contact with Jerry West in Memphis help them in drafting Marc? Definitely...nobody else had that advantage. We know Horace Grant's brother did not turn out to be as good as Horace or look at Blake Griffin's brother.
    The bottom line thing about the Bulls GMs is they haven't done any major mistake like the Portland GMs or the Clippers GMs have done. They haven't let once in a generation or superstar kind of talent go to another team like Portland with Durant, Atlanta with Chris Paul/Deron Williams, Minnesota with Stephen Curry etc... The only closest person is LaMarcus Aldridge who the Bulls let go and is having a major impact.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I did. I thought Marc Gasol would be an impact player. And I was rooting in real time for Bulls to trade up on draft night

  • In reply to Edward:

    I had no idea on who the Bulls wanted to draft. But, c'mon do you think Marc Gasol is at Pau Gasol's level or will be? We are not sure of that. But that said, I remember hearing(don't laugh at this) that Aaron Gray will be a top 10 pick way before the draft. Off-course, after the draft figured out about Aaron Gray. Anyways, Marc Gasol wouldn't have built/made the Bulls into a championship contender like Pau Gasol has done for the Lakers.
    What I mean is with West drafting Pau Gasol or atleast having Pau Gasol on his team in Memphis, he probably knew more about Marc than anybody else on other teams.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    It was well-known Bulls wanted to draft bigs in 2007 and that

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    True that. The 2000 draft was "the only draft which he gave the lowest possible grade of "F"". But the next year, 2001, Krause could have done much better. Chandler was defensible, but the red-flag Curry?? Could have had Jason Richardson, Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, Zach Randolph, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker or Gilbert Arenas!

    2002? Okay, another stinker of a draft and Bulls were snakebit with Jay Williams, though he was never going to be much better than Chris Duhon, accident or not. Hmm, Amare Stoudamire at 9 would have been nice, no? Too revisionist? Yes. But how about at #31: Roger Mason Jr. Who was left on the board? Boozer! Reggie Evans and Udonis Haslem, too.

    In other words, 3 terrible drafts in a row by Krause . . .

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    We do have Boozer in his prime. Imagine if he was drafted by the Bulls...he would have been run out of this town long time ago.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    Actually, I always felt that the trade that was one of Jerry's best was Cartwright for Oakley. It gave the Bulls a legit 7 footer that could combat some of the great centers of that era (how is that scar looking nowadays, Hakeem?), and took a ton of cojones to pull off (Oakley was a stud and best friend to MJ).

    On the flip side, I've heard he wanted to trade Pippen for Kemp, and if it weren't for Jordan, it would have happened. If this is true, I can't see a way to merit a HoF accolade for Krause.

    Combined with his epically poor drafting (once you get past Pippen and Kukoc, he was would Nick Van Exel looked next to Jordan with Mike Finley coming off the bench...egads), I just don't see a way to legitimately say he was a HoF GM. Very good over a short span, sure....but add it all up, and despite the championships, he averages out to be pretty mediocre.

    Of course, in the NBA, mediocre is usually cream of the crop. Just ask fans in Minnesota, Memphis, Golden State or Phoenix.

  • In reply to saigman:

    Reignman would've never gained all the weight if Jordan got on his ass in the offseason. He would probably be in the hall right now as well.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I dislike Krause almost as much as the players did, but you have to give him his due, he did his job despite being a jackass while getting it done.

    You forgot the Oakley for Cartwright deal(against the very strong wishes or Jordan) that opened the door for the first 3 peat.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Out of topic:

    What about the Bulls retiring #53 Artis Gilmore, now a HOF...?

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    The problem is the moves everyone hates like hiring Floyd and trading Brand are also moves nobody else would make.

    IMO the guy was a gambler, and you probably have to be to win championships because the odds are stacked against you. I don't really see how people can like the Pippen move and hate the Brand move or like the Jackson move and hate the Floyd move when they're basically the same sort of roll the dice move, just one worked and one didn't.

  • In reply to smiley:

    Although Crumbs was a good GM and made some very big moves to put together the Bulls championship teams, I don't think he belongs in the HOF. Why?, because IMO a GM has to know how to get along with his players, that person cannot let his ego get the best of him when he knows... yeah he put the team together but, he's not calling or executing the plays. The Bulls dynasty, 90% of it was Jordan, bottom line. I will never understand how and why Krause let Phil, Pippin and Jordan leave that team. To me that was just insane. You don't want the best player in the world and to ever play the game on your team anymore??? That's insanity. Jordan, Pippin and Phil was a package deal and everyone knew it, those three could've win 1 maybe 2 more titles if Krause would've just teamed the roster a bit more. I could go on and on about this but to me he just did too much damage to the Bulls organization reputation and it is the very reason why the Bulls have not been good for a number of years. I know cavs will have their opinions and arguments unfavorable of Krause and rightfully so, but all cavs have to do is look where he has been since the Bulls let him go. Nobody else in the league has wanted nothing to do with him and his old buddy Reinsdorf evidently is dine with him as well as a scout for the WhiteSox cause it was reported he has taken a job for I believe Arizona. So again, no offense against Krause but he had one good run as a executive in basketball and IMO that's not HOF worthy. Jordan Phil and Scottie was the blueprint to those titles, they had to put in the work. I respect how Krause put the team together but the way he handled his personel has not been good for the Bulls reputation over the years.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    please excuse some of my mobile phone typing errors.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    1. I think Krause definitely belongs in the HOF. We have to remember MJ was not winning anything before Pippen. And, the animosity of Pippen/MJ/Phil towards Krause is "immaturity" and nothing else. Their egos went into their heads. The bottom-line is the GM is the boss for the players and the coaches which Phil/MJ/Pip couldn't accept for their egos. They had probably people telling them this guy is not a league guy etc.. Nobody usually like their bosses in any environment.
    2. His draft choices after the dynasty have been pretty decent(Brand, Chandler, Artest are all big pieces of playoff teams after 10 years). He could have done the Danny Ainge thing(trading Perkins to break up a finals team)by trading Pippen the previous year but he let it go..That's probably giving into the egos of Phil and MJ. I have never heard Krause talk badly about any of the Bulls coaches or players.
    3. Look at Pat Riley the supposed genius. How many championships has he won at NY and Miami with Ewing, Mourning and Wade...

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Krause rubbed people the wrong way. Krause handled situations the wrong way. Everyone else around him wasn't "immature".

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    I didn't say everyone else was immature. I said MJ/Pip were. Phil wouldn't even be in the league if not for Krause. It is not a popularity contest even if you think so. It is how they changed the game. And he built it around a SG when building around a big man was the only solution. He could have traded MJ in 86 for some potential game-changing big man. This is a man's league as Stacy King says(I know he means it differently) have to work towards a goal as a team and not have silly egos which is what MJ/Pip/Phil had.
    If it was Larry Bird who would have done the same things as Krause did, he would be in the HOF as a GM.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    So you think Krause can be a dick to Phil b/c Phil wouldn't be in the NBA without him?

    That's what Krause thought too

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    Great topic! I've always been a bit of a Krause sympathizer, not really a loyalist (as you point out, he made plenty of mistakes), but one who feels that Jerry doesn't deserve quite so much the scorn he receives, one who feels he deserves some credit for the team's success.

    I just finished reading Playing for Keeps by David Halberstam and The Jordan Rules by Sam Smith, both excellent reads for anyone interested in Bulls history and the Jordan era. I end up confirming my belief that the players were far too cruel to Krause, but also liking Krause even less--he does much to bring on criticism and to alienate both players, staff and people around the league. You also see how off his thinking can be at times. Yet, for all MJ's hatred for Krause, most of Jordan's GM suggestions were atrocious (including not wanting Pippen) and we've all seen that he couldn't really do a better job.

    As you say, Krause makes some amazing, history-altering moves, and was also ahead of the curve with Kukoc in the 2nd round and even the way the team evolved with single-skilled role players around a big three--a pattern duped by most elite teams since. So I guess what I'm saying is you don't have to like him to give him his due. If Rodman and Winter are in, deservedly so, Krause needs to be in. But the same qualities that made him unpopular with the team and fans, will probably be the same ones that keep him out of the HOF.

  • In reply to muhammond:

    Good points...Before the Bulls, there were no dynasties except for Lakers/Celtics. Those teams just had a whole bunch of elite players unlike the Bulls. Getting Pippen, Kukoc, Phil should make him a HOF as these were real "sleuth" moves.

  • In reply to muhammond:

    I don't think Krause invented the big 3. The Lakers had Kareem, Worthy, and Magic, the Celtics had Bird, Parish, and McHale.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that Krause or the Bulls "invented" the big 3; it just seems they took the "role player" concept to new heights, especially during the 2nd run.

    Warts duely noted, Krause was a definite contributor to basketball history and would get my vote.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    Spare a thought here for Rod Thorn who resisted many attempts from other teams to pry that #3 pick away via trade. Thorn eventually used it on Jordan.

    Of course, then Reinsdorf bought the team & immediately fired Thorn so that he could put his baseball scout, Krause, in the position. Thorn was gone but he left a jewel to build around.

    Krause does deserve credit - but Krause also lucked into having Jordan there when he took over. Krause fought to get to the top - but once there seemed to just change for the worse.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    HOF is part popularity contest and Krause is as unpopular as they come. Every GM in the work wishes they were spotted MJ and all are sure they would not run MJ out of town. Krause ain't making it.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    I agree that he'll never get in.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    How many pure team builders or GMs are in the HOF? The problem is most GMs are former well-known players such as Jerry West. Is the Detroit GM in the HOF? Will RC Buford from San Antonio get in? You are probably right that Krause will not get in. There is too much negative energy towards him.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Red is certainly in.

    The basketball hall of fame, more so than probably any other, is willing to let in contributors. In that sense, I do think great team builders can get in moreso than in other sports.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    that doesn't mean he shouldn't though

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    1: While Phil, MJ, and Pip should have handled things better, Krause really rubbed people badly and brought a lot of that on himself.

    2: His post dynasty handling was a train wreck, there's no other way to see it. Brand/Artest were okay draft picks that he immediately shipped out. His signings were atrocious, his coaching decision was atrocious, when he left, the team was over the cap, saddled with terrible deals, had no good pieces, and was on pace to win about 25 games. It was monumentally bad.

    3: Riley has only been GM of Miami, and he won one title there and made a huge move to make it happen. He also put moves in place that make it highly likely that he'll win more titles. I'd feel good about having Riley as my GM.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    For someone to be HOF worthy - you have to go by the accomplishments and not failures or personality desorders, aka Dennis Rodman.
    That said, if considering to put a GM there, Jerry Krause has to be on top3 choices.

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    The hardest thing for me to reconcile with Krause is that after he lost the Bulls job, no one in the league would hire him.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Its the Bill Walton corollary

    In a career marred by injuries, he still put together one of the greatest seasons of all time. When healthy he was among the greatest players of all time. Would you rather have that for a couple of years, or someone not so great, maybe simply consistently good for a long duration. I'd go with true greatness every time, and I think you would too.

    The light that shines twice as bright, burns for half as long.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    In my opinion the HOF is more than just guys with good stats. I think he belongs because he is a part of the story of some really great things in the NBA. You cant tell the story of the Bulls run in the 90s without him so he should be in. Think of someone educating themselves on the NBA in 20 years from now. A logical question would be how and who put that team together.

  • In reply to bullswin60606:

    Sounds like an exhibit on GREAT DYNASTIES OF THE NBA, and not a singular bust for Krause.

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    I'm going to the hall of fame with or without your article, Doug Thonus. Remember, players like Derrick Rose don't win championships, organizations win championships.

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    Great topic, and great take, Doug.

    Krause does NOT deserve the Hall because 4 moves that you mention (Jackson, Winter, Pippen and Kukoc) are not nearly enough. While the Jackson and Winter hires were perspicacious and part of the dynasty foundation, he ultimately must be judged by his ability to judge players. He did extremely well with Pippen and Kukoc, but striking gold with two players had a lot to do with luck.

    How do the rest of the players he drafted look like? Hmm, not too good. Check it out:
    Eddy Curry, Trenton Hassell, Sean Lampley, Marcus Fizer, Chris Mihm, Dalibor Bagaric, A.J. Guyton, Jake Voskuhl. Khalid El-Amin, Elton Brand, Ron Artest, Michael Ruffin, Lari Ketner, Corey Benjamin, Shammond Williams. Maceo Baston, Keith Booth, Roberto Duenas, Travis Knight, Jason Caffey, Dragan Tarlac, Dickey Simpkins, Kris Bruton, Corie Blount, Anthony Reed, Byron Houston, Corey Williams, Litterial Green, and Matt Steigenga

    Brand and Artest are the only good players among that group, and he traded both away for much less. The rest of those players are so bad that most NBA fans don't even know they played in the league!!

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    But if you look at those drafts, it is not like Krause missed on HOFers. I am not sure about it but I doubt that he missed any great players. I don't think he missed out on anyone in the lottery except Fizer who was a big time bust.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    What if he kept Brand, Artest, and Brad Miller, then drafted Mike Miller instead of Fizer. We wouldn't have pick #2 in 2001 because we keep Brand, but at #4 we take Jason Richardson, Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, or Zach Randolph.

    We'd have a core of a young Brad Miller, Elton Brand, Ron Artest, Joe Johnson, and Jamal Crawford. Sign a decent PG instead of spending money on Mercer/E-Robbery, and you've got a team that could have been a fringe contender and is at least is a 2nd round playoff team.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Woops, forgot about Mike Miller on there (and obviously maybe you get one of those other guys instead of Joe Johnson).

    Still, that team has a very good center, one of the better PFs, very good wing players, and only needs a PG (and hell, if you had to play Jamal Crawford as your starting point guard it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world with the rest of that cast).

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    But the point is the Bulls would not have been happy with second round exits after all that success. The only reason they liked the Deng/Gordon Bulls is they sucked so bad for the previous 5-6 years. I guess Krause was trying to hit the jackpot which was his undoing. But honestly, no dynasty in the NBA(Magic's Lakers, Shaq's Lakers, MJ's Bulls, Bird's Celtics, Isaih's Pistons, Duncan's Spurs, Kobe's Lakers)has flourished without that superstar. Which executive has made a dynasty with a new star after finishing one except for West?

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    By that logic though, Krause screwed up even worse. He traded a bunch of young talent to get Jalen Rose in order to try and improve the team 'right now' when he has no shot in hell of competing, screwed up our cap, and generated enough wins to push us to draft 7th rather than our customary 1-4 spot we'd done the previous year when LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, and Bosh entered the league.

    Had Krause simply not traded for Jalen Rose, the Bulls likely would have drafted Dwyane Wade in 2003 [they really liked him and almost traded up to four to get him], and would have had a core of:

    Chandler, Curry, Artest, Miller, Crawford, and Wade which would have also been a second round type team with a legit superstar that just needed pieces.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Actually, I think the combo of Chandler and Curry would have been the greatest move by Krause if not for Curry eating too much, doing stupid things. He had the talent with Chandler...both got big contracts although Curry's is from Isiah Thomas.
    Basically, it was bad KARMA time for the Bulls.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I agree with that. That might not be a title team or anything, but it's a really competetive squad.

    I actually think he traded Artest at just the right time-he had shown flashes of brilliance but also flashes of crazy. While he played quite well for the Pacers, his demons also showed their faces at all the wrong times (like during playoff games). The problem was that Jalen Rose was clearly not the "big star" or number one option he was supposed to be.

  • In reply to muhammond:

    Artest got paired with Jackson. Like mixing kerosene and C-4...was bound to explode.

    A team can afford one looney tune, provided that there isn't another one there to egg him on; which is why I think Artest would have been okay in Chicago (at least, given the way the Bulls tend to bring in 'character' guys). He's been pretty fine out in LA, and that is the land of looney.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Anytime you have the chance to draft PF Dickey Simpkins (could have had Chuck Person or Charlie Ward), PF Corey Blount (could have had Nick Van Exel) and PF Jason Caffey (could have had Michael Finley....FROM CHICAGO) in back-to-back-to-back drafts, you just have to do it!

    A core comprised of Finley, Van Exel and Kukoc could have followed the dynasty. While likely first round playoff fodder, they wouldn't have had the fall from all-time great to all time-lousy.

    Granted, hindsight is 20-20, but Van Exel and Finley were clearly superior players at the time, so there is no excuse for Krause missing out on them.

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    You left out other good picks like Jamal Crawford, Ron Artest, Tyson Chandler. A couple of those years, the drafts were among the worst ever

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    LOL so true who are those dudes?!!1 :-)

    Outside of Curry, Brand, Artest, Mihm, and Mr. Happy calling JJ Dickey Simpkins...I never heard of any of these other guys!

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I agree that the way he handled personalities was his great undoing.

    Given how much success the Bulls had, it's amazing that not everyone could get along.

  • In reply to smiley:

    I think you have it just about right Doug. Because of his total wrecking of the team I don't believe he deserves any HOF mention however. I often believe that a good benchmark of a great GM is how well they draft at the bottom of the first round. It seemed like every year Krause drafted a totally inept power forward (e.g. Randall, Simpkins) and by-passing better talents. Compare that with what San Antonio did which kept the team on top.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    Outside of Kukoc, I don't think Krause did much in the draft once you got past Scottie and Horace, and he didn't want Horace but the coaching staff was going to revolt if he didn't take him.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    In the Jordan years, how many chances did he have? He even made some great draft picks in the rebuilding years, they just didn't all fit together or mature at the right time.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    great probably too strong of a word, but still good

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Poor drafting after the dynasty? How DARE you insult Dalibar Bagaric like that!

    Also, I saw on Wojnarowski's Twitter that he's campaigning some for Krause to get in. So this movement is not entirely without its supporters. I'm not so sure "he'll never get in."

  • In reply to DanFrystak:

    No, poor drafting, period. Take a look at the list, and match it up to the years Krause was there:

    Again, some of this is 20-20 hindsight. But the three putrid PFs in a row, Jeff Sanders (if a guy has dual knee braces and looks 28 coming out of college, that should probably lead to a PASS on the draft board...maybe I'm crazy) and Dalibor pretty much seem to tank any argument you can make for sending him into the hall.

    His greatest move was inheriting Jordan. His second greatest move was Jordan deciding to come back and play (or Stern lifting the suspension, if you believe that conspiracy). Next comes Pippen, then Kukoc, then Cartwright (I put that one ahead of Doug pointed out, that was a no-duh move).

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    If not the NBA then Old Country Buffet.

  • one of the greatest runs in the history of sports really.

  • Great point. Fifty years from now, this will be one of the great dynasties in the NBA and the main architect for that was Krause on both how he built it and how he broke it up. If NBA basketball management is a course in Sports Management, then Krause will be a major topic. He has become what "Hitler" was to World War II history.

    Please don't take it in any way that I am comparing Krause to Hitler's personality.

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