Derrick expected to play; McRoberts foul; Daily thoughts

First and foremost, Derrick Rose had an MRI on his ankle which was negative.  He's listed as day to day, but Fred Tedeschi said the swelling wasn't bad.

"Hopefully, he'll be ready (Tuesday)," Thibodeau said. "When we ask him,
he says he's fine. (Athletic trainer) Fred (Tedeschi) said (Rose) has a
little soreness, but he said the swelling isn't bad."

I think we all know that it'd take something awfully severe for Rose to miss the game and since he played over 32 minutes after spraining the ankle (albeit without his normal explosiveness), it'd be shocking if he missed Tuesday's game.

Unfortunately, what would not be shocking is if he struggled to play his game.

Derrick's an extraordinarily explosive athlete, and while he's become a better jump shooter, the majority of the threat he represents comes with his ability to take opponents off the dribble even when there are double or triple teams.

If Rose plays at 90% of his explosiveness, it causes a larger drop in his game than it might another player at this stage of his career.   That said, despite four close games, this is still the Indiana Pacers, the Bulls should beat them whether Rose is 100% or not, and he'll have plenty of time to rest up before game two if they do that.

The Pacers have played dirty all series

Whether you consider that playoff basketball or not, who knows.  It certainly isn't something the league typically condones, but in this series, the refs seem to have been allowing the Pacers to do whatever they feel like physically.   They've come out with an intent to harm in my opinion, and the league should take stronger action against them.

There have probably been at least two other flagrant fouls that should have been whistled on the Pacers besides the two that actually were.   Plays where they simply aren't making any play on the ball, but just trying to grab someone and throw them down.

However, how about this one, it's not eve in a basketball play but a dead ball situation.

You've got Josh McRoberts throwing a forearm/elbow into the face of Derrick Rose on a deadball and making contact. At a minimum this should have been a technical. If the contact was deemed excessive it should have been an ejection.

I haven't heard anything about the league reviewing this yet, but it seems crazy that after the Pacers last two flagrant foul upgrades, that they're still doing crap like this without getting caught in the game. I would have thought after the last two upgrades in flagrants that a point of emphasis might have been on the Pacers not roughing up the Bulls, but the game was called the exact opposite way and this wasn't even seen.

Before someone runs in with the "this is playoff basketball" theory, let me say that it's not playoff basketball to hit guys with your forearm in deadball situations. It's not even basketball, it's a deadball situation. The league instituted automatic suspensions for anyone throwing a punch to clean this stuff up.

There's a difference between hard fouls and diry play, and the Pacers have deliberately and repeatedly crossed that line without repercussions from the league which is quite disappointing.

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  • This is getting ridiculous...I'm with Scottie Pippen...We don't need to retaliate, BUT you should never let something like this go unnoticed...Do something!! I'm sure if it were Pierce or Ginobilli, they fall to the ground in one second...

  • Well that just made me even more angry. It's like they've all been to Dwight Howard's accidental elbows tutorials. I just don't want one of our best guys suspended for throwing a punch - maybe reactivate Scalabrine just to body slam Granger?

  • Great post. McRoberts is a punk. It pisses me off to no end that that elbow will go unnoticed by the league, and apparently by his teammates as well. I thought this was the reason Kurt Thomas was on the team. I'm not usually big on the whole payback thing, but this series has been incredibly lopsided in terms of physical play. The Pacers are doling out the hits at every opportunity while it seems like the Bulls are happy to sit there and take it. The fact that we've been happily pushed around like this can't bode well for the rest of the Playoffs.

    As for Rose's injury, I think you hit the nail on the head. While he might play in that game, his dominance is almost entirely based on his physical ability. He has yet to reach that Chris Paul level where he can control a game mentally, using passing, and other skills. If he's limited in any way, his game will suffer greatly. We can only hope that he isn't as hurt as the media has made it seem. Although if his last game was any sign, that won't be the case. Just PLEASE stop taking all the dumb jumpers if you aren't healthy Derrick.

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    I agree, it can be annoying for Derrick to jack all those threes/jumpers if he's not hitting, but he is the Bulls primary scorer, he needs to score. I would prefer for them to get Boozer going, but I think he usually reverts to that when others are not hitting their shots. We are pretty desperate for offense and I just wish Thibs would give Butler a shot. He should have been on the floor for that last 3 we needed vs. Booz.

  • In reply to ChristyOO8:

    True, but I think Derrick should try and be a playmaker a little more. As the pg he sets the tone for the offense. Instead of feeling the need to cast up a shot when the offense bogs down, I wish he would try and get his teammates a shot a little more often.

    That being said, D Rose is the man, so I'm not trying to make him out to be a jacker. I just think that along the way his priorities have been a little messed up. I know he's capable of being a true pg, cause we've seen it as recently as the third quarter of the last game. I just think we need to see more of it.

    To me, his best performance to date was that Milwaukee game, where he dominated the game with a nice split of passing and scoring. Then when the end of the game came, he completely took over. I want to see more of that guy.

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    Yup, they've got to hit though... I always think he should be averaging more assists and I will blame Noah and Booz for missing GIMMIES in the lane that come from him, but CP3 has a horrible supporting cast and he makes that work, so maybe Derrick's passing game is not all that hot yet.

  • In reply to ChristyOO8:

    Thanks SO MUCH for posting this Doug. I'm sick of them. If you re-watch game 1, where Derrick makes that amazing 3-point play in the final minutes. He beats his chest and swears (he looking up at the luxury suite that his family and friends sit at), and the bench is FUMING. Look at the look on McRoberts face towards the end of the bench... He's looking straight ahead, like he's going to explode, and Dahntay Jones is so bold, he actually SAYS something to D. Rose along the lines of shut your a$$ up. I say all this to say that its almost like there was some hostility that had built up prior to them being able to play him and its not just about bball anymore.

    Dahntay Jones is another one to keep an eye on. Derrick was so quick on that lefty layup that sealed game 3 that you can't really see it, but on the replay, Jones cracks Derrick HARD across the face, and it is what made him fall to the ground. Also, remember that cheapshot on CJ after Jones didn't get the charge called? I did some research on him and found this article that you should read. He's got a rep and I don't want him hurting Derrick, especially with him ALREADY not being at 100%.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/185836-its-official-dahntay-jones-is-a-dirty-player

  • In reply to ChristyOO8:

    Agreed with all of the above, the Bulls need to send this Pacer team back to Indiana to clean out their lockers and start their vacations tomorrow night. The excessive dirty play and bad calls against the Bulls was expected case that's what they do down there. Bulls need to play like they did at the end of game 4 the entire game tomorrow night and this series is over.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    48 minutes of lock down defense,focus and bringing the energy. I'm hoping for a comfortable blowout by the Bulls although it hasn't happened at all in this series.

  • I missed it.

  • What really makes me sad is the Pacers are better than having to resort to this.

    If after this series they come out with a reputation of a dirty team then Vogel has really failed and doesn't deserve to get the coaching job full time.

    I like the players the Pacers have, a lot of young talent with loads of cap space this summer. After the Artest brawl you would have thought the last thing this team would want is that reputation back which will definitely turn off any major stars agreeing to join them this summer.

    Vogel has also shown his immaturity as a coach; all the crap he has come out with post game doesn't do the Pacers image any favours; blaming everyone and anyone for not being 3-1 up instead of 3-1 down. Why not just be honest and say we are close but just need that one player who can be their closer at the end of games (a la Derrick) and we hope to address that in the summer. The Bulls have always said we needed a low post presence and now a starting SG. Honesty keeps your fans! With up to 50% of the crowd in game 4 being Bulls fans says a lot about where the Pacers are right now. Playing and saying the crap they have over the last 10 days is NOT likely to get more fans.

    I hope Bird has a word with Vogel and if they do decide to keep him that he grows up and takes a leaf out of Thibs book of how you address the media. I think a Bulls Pacers rivalry over the next few years is a definite possibility (if they use their cap space wisely) and with the teams being so close geographically it will be a rivalry to look forward to.

  • Am I the only person that's not upset about the Indiana fouls?

    Look...the one thing that toughened Jordan up was when he had those two back to back years against the Pistons where they were just MAULED.

    Perennial Sportsman of the Year Candidate Bill Laimbeer always reminded us that you can't teach "PUNCH"....either you got it, or you don't.

    What I DON'T see is an enforcer for this team. Something that typically should fall to Noah and Boozer the Boozerian.

    I'd be satisfied if the fouls kept coming but I'd see some retalliation from our front line w/o being thrown out. A little forearm shiv to Danny Granger as he drives the hole or 3 would do it.

    Because...let's be honest...do we think the Celtics or the Heat would do it any different?

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    It is a different era. Basketball is more universal now and there are more skilled players. The league and fans have learnt that what the Pistons were doing was BS and all that talk is just bravado from some fans/old players. That said, they have to stand up and do what Rose did...talk back and maybe get a technical. I agree though that the Pacers are playing dirty especially McRoberts, Dahntay Jones and Foster. I am also sure Pax/Thibs have talked to Stern and the officials about it.

    And the Heat and Celtics have star players who have skills and they don't need this nonsense nor do they want retaliation. The Bulls are still going inside except for Rose in the last game. It was probably more due to his ankle rather than being scared of Foster or McRoberts.

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    Uhhh no - the Celtics/Heat/etc won't do what the Pacers are doing. Nobody in the NBA does what the Pacers are doing anymore. Because the league - in every other case - has banned this style of play. It's not basketball. It's a form of rubgy with basketball hoops.

    Even when the Celtics and Bulls were getting chippy a couple years back, it wasn't with flagrant fouls and dirty play. It was Rondo getting into it with Hinrich, and a couple slaps on drives here and there - nothing this blatant, and frankly nothing this intentionally violent.

    Other teams the Bulls face will try to win by being a better basketball team. Not by beating them up. You know, because it's a basketball tournament.

  • In reply to DanFrystak:

    Indy reminds me of the 90's Knicks more than the 80's Pistons.

    This should come as no surprise to anyone, as they basically announced before the series that they were being coached to be ultra physical, and put guys down.

    The Knicks figured if they fouled on every play they couldn't call all the fouls and they would get away with a ton of crap, which they did.

    The Knicks were dirty, the Pistons were criminal, the Pacers are at the dirty level, not yet criminal.

    The solution to this problem is to start Thomas instead of Boozer and let him do his thing to make an early statement. Thomas knows how to use his body and put a hurt on people without going rogue. Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing Asik on Hibbert either, but thats just me.

    Right now, the Pacers are beating us, and beating on us(literally and figuratively) with size, we need to respond with size, not going midget as all these f-ing genius coaches seem to love to do. There is a reason that the NBA is filled with abnormally tall guys.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Each guy has 6 fouls so if I was Thib's Id unleash the Turkish Hammer on the trio of big white guys on the Pacers! Also let Big Hurt do his thang! :-)

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Yeah that Foster hit on Deng was criminal!

    Doug I thought you said 2 fouls were fined to Pacer players after review (after the game). Was the Foster hit on Deng 1 of those???

  • In reply to BigWay:

    "There is a reason that the NBA is filled with abnormally tall guys."

    The quote of the day

    Oh my God, thank you! Finally a voice of reason. Get some big guys in there, slow the game down, & you will kill them. I wanna see Jo & Asik out there together. Noah & Thomas, Thomas & Asik.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Wow, is this really what basketball in the NBA has become? And no I'm not talking about the "elbow/forearm" that was given. You are seriously complaining about that!?! That barely even made contact. The fans today are just as big of babies as the athletes. I'd much rather see hard fouls and physical play than the weak flopping that has ravaged the league today. As far as I'm concerned, the Bulls were in the Pacers house and Rose was trying to upstage them by showing off after his dunk. He is just asking for something like that to happen. It's hilarious reading the Bulls fans comments about how they think the Pacers are playing so dirty yet they wish Noah or Boozer would be the physical presence that they need. It's playoff basketball. It's time to separate the men from the boys. Get over it Chicago.

  • In reply to jwed77:

    It appears you have never been hit with an elbow like that. Or maybe too many of them. Or, worse case scenario, you are Josh McRoberts' mother, in which event I feel you are at least partially responsible for passing on the gene that encodes "talentless". Either way, the playoffs are supposed to be about which is the better basketball team. If it was about determining whether the players were in fact adult males then I'm sure they would just stand in a circle and compare penis size. Which, I suspect, is what you were hoping for all along.

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    I am LMAO at all my friends that are Celtics fans and are talking crap on my Bulls because they swept the Knicks and we are going to a game 5!!

    I told em I pray that your shitty team finds some way to make it past the Heat so we can kick the shit out of you guys in the ECF lol

  • In reply to UtahBullsFan:

    I still don't trust Boston. NY almost had nobody with Amare hurt and Boston getting lucky in the first two games. The one thing Boston has is the psychological advantage over Miami. The Heat better have a 10 pt game at the end..otherwise, we al l know what happens.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Ya exactly if Boston can just keep it close for the first 45-47 minutes they'll have it

  • In reply to UtahBullsFan:

    The Knicks actually played like a 8th seed... Game 3 for Boston looked like a shootaround/practice for Allen and Pierce. They haven't been tested yet, this postseason anyway.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I'm gonna go Mr Happy on this one and say that the Bulls need and will get - looking at how the 4-5 matchup is going - Dwight Howard in the summer for Noah and Boozer. Then we can start counting up them rings...

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    then again, with the bulls luck, the lakers will offer up bynum and that'll be that.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    It has nothing to do with luck, the Lakers will absolutely offer Bynum and just about anything else for HOward. The Bulls only hope is that Bynum continues to be injury prone and Orlando decides that he is not worth the risk, otherwise Howard will be a Laker.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    i think you may be right, but it only makes sense for howard if he believes the lakers will succesfully retool and attract a new high level core to stay at the top of the league for the next decade. THe guys they have now are almost all or will be on borrowed time within 3 years. Kobe is not a Jordan at 32, he is more like jordan at 35-36 with the mileage he's got on him. But of course the Lakers have been hoarding top level talent for decades now, so how could you doubt them anyway.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Clippers should be offering Kaman's expiring, their pick next year, the Wolves pick next year (likely top 3) and whatever else the Magic want outside of Griffin & Gordon. IMO that's the best offer and the best situation for Howard in LA. Fire Vinny and hire a real coach they're contenders AND Howard doesn't look like he's riding Kobe/Pau's coat tails.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    that would be a SCARY good team

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Do we think if Boozer is around though...will he try to take rebounds away from Howard who is used to swinging his elbows? Nobody else on the Magic is near him or competing for rebounds.
    Seriously, a lot of teams would want Howard. Don't discount NJ because they have Lopez to trade for and they have Prohkorov and Deron Williams or even OKC.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    is howard gonna wanna go do some building on a 24 win team - maybe wait 3 years for another crack at a title - or does he go to a 62 win team. That should be a factor i figure

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    in reality only the bulls can can offer howard a top 5 young player to pair up with + solid role players.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Oh, and OKC, but what can they trade for him anyway? Would have to be westbrook at least..

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Saw that mcroberts play, glad somebody else picked up on it. This is why bogans and KT were brought in. I expect them to mix it up tuesday night.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    I hope Bogans throws a punch on someone and gets suspended haha!

  • In reply to UtahBullsFan:

    Amen

  • In reply to UtahBullsFan:

    Talk about a win-win!

  • In reply to UtahBullsFan:

    some fool over at ESPN said "If the Bulls can continue to play like they have been in Round 1, I don't think anyone in the East will beat them."

    whats he smokin

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    I think he might mean the way they have comeback and won close games without folding like the Heat. Or maybe it is a misprint that if they play like Round 1, anybody in the East can beat them.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I heard this on ESPN today too and I understood what he meant. They had just got done talking about the Celtics and Miami and how Miami couldn't close out yet another close game.

    Even though the Bulls have had a weak showing so far, I am SO glad they managed to string together those 3 wins... I am watching the Spurs get STOMPED and DOMINATED right now by Memphis and they are down 2-1. Can you imagine what people would be saying if this was us???

    We should all be relieved my friends... Those lower seeds are dangerous this season.

  • In reply to ChristyOO8:

    agreed. Our team has heart, their play will catch up

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Does anyone else find it pathetic that LeBron and Wade always do their post-game interviews together? Is this requested by the media, or are they too afraid to be alone and explain why they suck in game winning situations?

  • In reply to Jmax:

    I thought it was for efficiency... They write about all three of them together as the "Big Three" as if they have no individual identity any more so why not talk to them together?

  • In reply to Jmax:

    Screw these dirty SOBs! Send them packing tomorrow, kick the shit out of them again next year. Those ignorant thugs have no idea they are stuck in NBA purgatory and will never get out of the 1st round over the next 10 years. Dhantay Jones is a piece of shit who has never done anything, McRoberts couldn't hold Hansbrough's jock when they played against each other, Hansbrough, Foster (Jeff Goldbloom's nerdy brother), Hibbert, Granger, Collinson...they can all eat shit & die.I really hate these M'effers, I wish I had all their voodoo dolls, doesn't matter they will all be sitting on their couches come tomorrow night, watching us go all the way. You're all dirty slimeballs! You'll get what's coming to you.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Does anyone have a link to Foster's elbow to Deng's head? I heard about it, but never saw the footage.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Yup, Foster, McRoberts and Hansbrough have all resorted to thuggery. It's not "playoff basketball." There are rules in place that are designed to penalize thugs. Shame that they're not being enforced.

    The featured McRoberts dead ball "play" was just pure punk crap. Unlike the flagrants, it wasn't going to do any damage. It also wasn't going to have any intimidation value. I suspect what he was going for was retaliation and ideally (for the Pacers) dual ejections.

    It's time for the Bulls to send these Pacers to their offseason pursuits.

  • In reply to Nossem:

    maybe they're all in the Klan or something

  • In reply to Nossem:

    The Bulls are taking way too many shots to the head. They don't need to retaliate, but they do need to get chippy and get into the Pacer's faces after each transgression.

    This will force the ref's to tighten up the calls to keep anything from blowing up. That would be in the Bulls favor as we would be freed from the thuggery going forward and out athlete or execute the Pacers without the shenanigans.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Games/series like this are why no one has faith in the credibility of NBA officiating. The league has basically already said twice that the refs were too lenient, and yet, nothing changes (actually, they seem to have deteriorated).

    I won't go so far as to say that they're trying to keep things artificially close (bad shooting has done that for the Bulls...and the Knicks would be still playing if a fix was in), but I don't think the NBA does nearly enough to police the refs.

  • In reply to Nossem:

    Us Bulls fans need to stop crying foul and own up to the fact that Bulls have played like crap!

    Vogel is out coaching Thibs. Vogel has the 8 seed battling toe-to-toe with the 1 seed and they aren

  • In reply to Edward:

    Yeah, well the Bulls during the regular season were notorious for slow starts. Sometimes they could come back, sometimes they couldn't. A loss is the best thing for this Bulls team. Remember that last streak they were on? They were on a roll, then lost to the Pacers in OT. They started another streak strong and then came out weak against the Bucks and Memphis, but D. Rose bailed them out. After that, they came out casual against Philly and they stomped them on their home court.

    The slow/fast starts are not always the case of being sluggish or overconfident, it boils down to "are they hitting their shots?". That's a big question and for some reason, they seem to go cold offensively for long stretches and with D. Rose's jumper abandoning him we have NO consistent rainbows to count on. I'm scared.

  • In reply to Nossem:

    I uploaded the one, Foster hit Deng at gm3.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOt-DGI6mE0&hd=1

    Unfortunately, this part was only replayed by CSN not in TNT. So, many non-bulls fans watched this and thought the foul is not serious. Look at slow motion, Forster actually turn the angle to use his elbow.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Howard is a confirmed warm weather guy, and he seems a bit Hollywood to, even if it is Disney. That doesn't help the Bulls efforts. Even though Chicago is the best big city in the country the weather sucks and these young guys want it all, and are not that serious about winning.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    a bit Hollywood?

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Can we bring Ed Nealy out of retirement to lay some wood on these Pacer clowns?

    Ultimately, though I hate to see DRose get beaten up, this will make the Bulls a better team. And no matter how "dirty" opposing teams play, nothing will be as bad as that Pistons and Knicks team that brutalized both MJ and Scottie back in the day . . .

  • In reply to ethanboldt:

    One of the reasons I wanted JJ to stick around was for moments like these. He copuld get on the court with his D and athleticism alone, & with his martial arts blackbelt history could really provide us with some more support.

  • In reply to UtahBullsFan:

    yep, I remember saying I'd rather have NY than Indiani in the 1st

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