LeBron picks Rose for MVP, wonder what Lebatard thinks of that?

Dan LeBatard (Miami beat writer) recently wrote a long piece about how Derrick Rose doesn't deserve the MVP.  Well, his boy, LeBron James, recently noted who his pick for MVP is:

Per Chicago Breaking Sports:

"I think Derrick Rose," James said. "What he's done for that team, with
all the injuries they have and them being first in the Eastern
Conference. They're playing some really good basketball."

"You've got some guys here that have done their job also," James said.
"But Derrick Rose definitely has gotten a lot of the exposure and a lot
of the media attention because of the work he's done. He's playing some
unbelievable basketball."

Now there's a good way to get back in our good graces LeBron!

Chicago loves you again!

Okay, well, maybe not, but I'm sure we'll all endorse that statement.  On a diversionary note, it's interesting to note that the Heat, the most covered team in the history of the universe, have somehow managed to fly under the radar.

After James dropped all of the initial prechampionship celebration talk, the why am I hated talk, and the I'll get even talk, the Heat have gone on about their business without anyone paying too much attention.

Will they succeed in the playoffs?  I think so.  I think they face the Bulls in the ECF, and have a good chance to win and meet the Lakers in the finals.  In that matchup, who knows.

However, diversion over, back to Rose and his awesomeness.

It's always great to get these kinds of endorsements from superstar players even if LeBron doesn't have a vote.


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  • I think LeBron is trying to make Rose get complacent for the playoffs. Because, it feels more like the Celtics are imploding. This talk of coasting for the playoffs is something you can believe a little bit but it is not true every year. The trade of Perkins did something to that team or they might have got old. And, they have their championship and will never be a dynasty.
    That means, the Bulls are the only legit threat for the Heat to get to the finals. And for whatever reason, Miami seems to play well against the Lakers.
    You can tell from the interview after the CAVS game, that LeBron thinks he can up the intensity/focus in the playoffs. The Bulls are the only elite team which is a hindrance to the Heat. The Celtics can and maybe they will but I think you can go to the switch turn-off/turn-on thing only a few times.

  • Agree with you schaumburgfan, This Celtics team has lost something vital to the way they operate. Maybe, apart from the loss of the physical Bully Perkins, the loss of their defensive mastermind Thibs has cast a dark shadow on this team (the Celtics). Maybe, as Thibs goes so goes the Celtics. Their loss is the Bulls' gain.

  • In reply to Normie:

    they did the same thing last year. I am not counting them out. Miami scares me more than they did a month ago, still, I think Boston takes them.

  • In reply to Normie:

    Completely unrelated, but, how often do you think Lebatard got picked on for his last name? I mean it's so easy to turn it into bad quip.


    sucks for him.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    In french, Lebatard literally means "The bastard"...

    Yeah, sucks for him.

  • Leba"RETARD" is such a Heat homer piece of crap, He was one of the main reporters that was absolutely sickening when those 2 quitters joined Wade in Miami. He was saying that they would be the best team ever, they would break both the Bulls and Lakers records and now that he has had to put his foot in his mouth, he is hardly heard from. He was on PTI just about every day last summer running his mouth about his precious Heat. Anyone that knows and watch the Bulls games should clearly see that Rose is the MVP this year. Trust me, if Lebron was not on the Heat he wouldn't be saying these things about Rose.

  • The biggest issue is this guy doesn't watch just enough Bulls games unless he had the NBA package for Bulls(I doubt that).
    We as Bulls fans/basketball fans have an unique perspective on the Heat and the Bulls because we have watched a lot this year. Last year, we didn't watch enough Heat or Cavalier games. But because of all the hoopla of 2010 FA and the coverage of Heat games on ESPN/NBA TV/ABC/TNT(I think almost 90% of their games are nationally televised compared to 25% of Bulls games), we can see how LeBron plays. That's why Rose > LeBron in MVP consideration.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I have a hard time believeing any of these guys watch any Bulls games. They are clearly searching for resons not to vote for Rose, but I really doubt they have watched more than 1-2 of his games, and when they did, they were probably searching for resons that he shouldn't win.

    One guy from ESPN, forget the tool's name, was saying that he doesn't get his teammates invloved enough. Hah, are you kidding?

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Most of the guys just talk about why Rose shouldn't be MVP and don't really give any explanation as to why Lebron or Howard should other than stats. I think that's proof enough that they never watch Bulls games.

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    I agree, and I don't understand where this anti-Rose sentiment is coming from. I think some of it is his young age, but that can't be all.

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    I'm not use to all of this critical attention being directed at DRose and the Bulls, but I like it. Bill Laimbeer's comments about DRose sharing the ball were hilarious. Just days after Derrick dishes out 17 assists. I wasn't old enough to appreciate the Bulls Pistons rivalry but I remember very clearly the Bulls Jazz rivalry. The Mailman winning MVP over Jordan. If the Bulls face and defeat the Heat in the playoffs Lebron will change his tune. I hope the Bulls compete with the Heat for a longtime. New rivalries please.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Bill Laimbeer. Assistant Coach of the Timberwolves.

  • In reply to Jmax:

    no, it was one of the analysts

  • I think all the heat players have gotten tired of all the attention ...
    Maybe they're trying to make Rose have to deal with the attention for awhile.
    I mean, they have to know that all of these meaningless opinions aren't going to matter to the actual voters.

    On a totally unrelated note, but speaking of Lebron ...
    I ran across an interesting comparison.
    If Lebron never accomplishes more than he already has, is he the SF version of Karl Malone?
    The numbers are surprisingly similar, though their play style is completely different.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    almost seems like LeBron is trying some reverse psychology. I don't believe that LeBron truly believes that anyone but him is MVP.

  • MVP talk is getting boring, so let's look at perhaps the most intriguing 2011 NBA Finals hypothetical. First off, we need to review how home court is determined in the Finals. There are four levels.

    1. Best overall record
    2. Head to head matchup
    3. Record against opposing conference
    4. Random drawing (!)

    If the Bulls perform well for the rest of the season, they will almost certainly have home court against everyone except possibly the Spurs. What would have to happen for the Bulls to tie or overtake the Spurs in the homecourt race in the unlikelyish event that they both make the Finals?

    1. Overall record
    Let's say the Celtic beat the Spurs tonight (Thursday 3/31). That would put the Spurs at 57-18, which is only two losses ahead of the Bulls who are currently 54-20. The Spurs have a number of difficult teams left to play, including the Lakers, so it's certainly possible that with their injuries they will lose two or more games out of their final seven. Let's say they lose three and the Bulls lose only one of their last eight. Both teams end up at 61-21. Certainly a foreseeable scenario.

    2. Head to head matchup
    Bulls and Spurs split the season series, 1-1, and don't play again.

    3. Record against opposing conference
    Spurs are currently 22-6 against Eastern teams. If they lose the Boston game, which we're already assuming, that puts them at 22-7. Last game is again Atlanta; if they win they end up at 23-7. Bulls, meanwhile, are 22-7 with one Western team to play. If they beat the Suns, they also end up 23-7.

    4. Random drawing
    Wacky. This would obviously generate an enormous amount of media coverage and fodder for pundits. Pretty sure it'd be the first time in NBA history that home court is determined in this way. If you love watching how Stern stoically ignores "the fix was in" gossip concerning the Draft Lottery, this would be a dream come true.

  • I'd agree with Doug that Miami, revolting as it is, probably is the favorite to come out of the East. What'd they win like 20 games in a row at one point? But that probably" is based on the players, namely the trio of Wade, Bron, and Bosh(OK, even I've grown tired of mocking his name i.e Posh.. Spice).

    But I don't base them coming out of the East by their head coaches presence or infuence. Personally I think he's a bit dicey. I just don't see the leadership or charisma. I think he's actually somewhat of a Pat Riley wannabee including the ridiculously copied hands on hips slightly askew with one finger pointed in the air ala John Travolta that Pat was famous(or notorious) for. Word to post Pat imitators.. Disco is Dead.

    And the role guys like House and Miller are quality based on their histories. You figure come all the refs calls i.e insurance blanket will take the pressure off, and they'll start canning J's. Plus Dave Stern i.e the money wants them in the Finals so what more do you need? But if Noah and Booz, I'd have to say miraculously at this point do to the prolonged downward trend in production due to injuries..? But I'd say only with reemergence of November Jo and Booz 19 and 10 dot org do you see the Bulls powerfully riding into the ECF and beyond.

  • In reply to MikeKeane:

    It is Ru Paul to you

  • In reply to MikeKeane:

    If David Stern is concerned about the league, the value of its franchises, and viewers, he'd want OKC and Chicago.
    Exciting teams, with the 2 best young stars, who were built the old fashion way and can be contenders for years.
    That's where the $$$$ is.

  • In reply to MikeKeane:

    So you are counting on role players to come out of a slump for the Heat to win it all? Don't you consider that the reason they haven't played well might be because of how the other three starters play around them? Mike Miller can't shoot because he goes half a quarter without touching the ball. Wade, James, and Bosh are a black hole that rivals the one at the center of the milky way. Come on RW, you really think the Heat, who have yet to beat the Bulls or Celtics are the, I can't even say it, favorite? I love you and Doug, but come on man! This team that's psyche seems to teeter totter like a pencil on a blade has the mental balls to make it through to the finals? I'll say this, if the Heat do make it to the finals they will have not lost a single game on the way, because one early loss is enough to throw these children into a fit, and in turn into an early offseason..

  • In reply to MikeKeane:

    It is getting ridiculous...John Hollinger doesn't even bother to hide his hatred towards Derrick Rose...It's just plain cheap...Guys, please check this out: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/37666

  • In reply to MikeKeane:

    Sorry...didn't see you guys commented on this before...

  • Hollinger doesn't have anything against Rose I think, he just doesn't like voters who ignore advanced statistics. And I think he takes that personally since he invented PER. PER was meant to show that some players are more valuable than their traditional statistics (PPG, RPG, FG%, etc.), but sometimes people take it too far and say that since one player has a PER 0.50 better than another he must clearly be the better player. The statistic simply does not have that kind of fidelity, and can be altered depending on how much weight you give to any of the factors that go into the calculation.

    Besides, giving your MVP vote to a player based solely on PER seems just naive as basing your vote solely on traditional stats and the eye test. It is simply one measure, not the end all be all. Plus, sports is supposed to be fun; how much fun would it be to anoint the player with the highest PER as the MVP each year?

    All that said, I'd vote for Howard. But he's not going to win, Rose will.

  • In reply to punkedgepc:

    I'm still having trouble thinking Rose will win. I think there are a large number of voters who are either too ignorant, or don't feel like he is the best player. I think a monster game by Kobe to finish off the season might just be enough to sway the voters. There are some who are very clearly anti- Rose for whatever reason.

  • In reply to punkedgepc:

    Wow u will vote for Howard the same Howard who have lead his magic to 47 wins so far the magic got swept by the hawks this year you do know that right in the history of basketball have there ever been a player who won the MVP who got his team to the fourth seed 13best record overall in the nba hey they didn't win there own Division this year the heat will so please with that Howard for MVP crap

  • In reply to punkedgepc:

    Please don't take this as a specific attack on your post because I don't mean it that way. This just seems the best spot to post this.

    There is a tendency to attack Hollinger for 2 things:
    1. Over reliance on stats in general, AKA "not watching games"
    2. Over reliance on a metric he created (PER)

    The first argument makes very little sense if you read his stuff. He's a guy that ESPN sends to multiple games per week for starters. He also writes a daily column addressing game action. Yes, he's a stats guy and his writing is going to have that kind of leaning towards it, but that doesn't mean he isn't watching more basketball than anyone reading this blog.

    PER has many flaws, which if you've heard Hollinger speak about the metric, you realize he is more than willing to admit. What PER does, is quantify a lot of "stuff" people throw around (PPG, Rebs, Asts, FG%, etc) within context of how well they do those things. It's not perfect, but it's certainly more meaningful than quoting Melo's scoring average. Hollinger uses it as a starting point for a lot of his pieces, but that's hardly where his analysis stops.

    One comment on PER. PER also passes the "eye" test. If you pull up the Top 11 (11 because Rose is 11th) in PER, you're going to get a fairly representative list of the "best" players in the league. Especially if you consider that 4th - 11th are separated by 1 point and from a statistical standpoint, the difference is insignificant. Kevin Love is likely an outlier, but any single metric will be prone to that error.

    If you say you've read Hollinger's piece today and come away from it thinking that he's arguing for one player as MVP based solely on PER, then I have a hard time actually believing you read the piece. The vast majority of it is about other stuff.

  • In reply to cecowger:

    Yes the top 11 PER guys are likely the top 11 in the league for the most part. But using PER to distinguish between those players is a practice in lunacy. There are simply to many little variables that can swing one average this way or the other. For instance Hollinger seems to think that Westbrook is nearly as good as Rose. Westbrooks PER is similar to Rose for two reasons. Westbrook isn't taking the tough bail out shots and buzzer heaves that Rose takes each game because he has Durant. That brings his TS% up. He also gets more rebounds than Rose because his interior big men pale in comparison with Rose's. Boozer, Noah, Asik, Taj, and Thomas all rebound the ball better than any OKC player excluding the newly traded for/barely played Kendrick Perkins. Rose doens't get as many rebounds simply because there aren't as many rebounds to be had. These two small variables completely throw off and are the difference between 1-2 whole points in PER. Which can be the difference between, apparently, being deemed MVP worthy or not.

    Also Hollinger admits to seeing only 4 bulls games this year? I mean are you kidding me? The Bulls have been on national television like what? 9 times? More? Dan Patrick, who isn't even a damn analyst has said he's watched rose nearly a dozen times. Let me ask you this, do you think Hollinger has spent more time this year watching the NBA? Or looking at numbers for articles.

    Look, Hollinger usually has some good things to say and PER is useful. But his points against Rose in this piece are almost all ridiculous if you've seen Rose play. We all know that Rose takes shots he doesn't want to, but because he has to. We all know Rose is athletic enough to lead Guards in rebounds, but he doesn't have to. We all know Rose could put up even MORE assists, but he has Keith Bogans, and Ronnie Brewer in at SG 70% of the time and neither of them can shoot. We all know that Boozer and Noah are huge to this team and that Rose carried us to the best record in the league against the top 8 NBA teams. We all know that Rose did what had to be done to get us to the top spot in the East. Howard may be more efficient, but ALL solid interior players are more efficient scorers. They ALWAYS lead the league in fg%. And Hollinger notes the Bull's excellent defense as if the Heat and Magic weren't near the top as well. He calls the Bulls bench excellent, but since when? Was this bench excellent to start the season? Or did they follow Rose's lead and allow Thibs to coach them into excellence. I'm sorry, but Dwight Howard, for being such an offensive and defensive force, can't get his team to the top despite his team's salary sitting at 30 million beyond the Bulls. People can say I'm bias, but if you mean i'm bias because I've actually seen Rose carry the Bulls on his back every single game this year, if you mean I've seen Rose outduel every single point guard in the NBA, if you mean I've seen Rose out play Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Durant, Dirk, etc in the closing minutes? Then YEA. I'm pretty fucking bias.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    Very well said bro. This tiime last year the bulls were fighting just t get in the playoffs. They have gone from 8th to 1st. How often does that happen? You have Mia/Bos who everyone was so sure was going to Finish ahead of us. We weren't even picked to win our own division and we won that darn near a month ago. I'm with you on this. Every game I see rose carry this team on his back and a few games actually will us to victory. (Against Houston, Milwaukee, Memphis down the stretch ) just to name a few. I don't care what "shakes" said. If the bulls don't have Derrick and Noah /boozer miss those games I guarantee the we would be staring at 20 wins. And the way he has dominated every PG in the league this year and has his team two weeks away from their first number one seed in over a decade ...give me a break

  • In reply to StephanH:

    Doesn't the fact the Bulls have gone from 8th to 1st in the East really underline how much Boozer, Brewer, Korver, Watson, Asik & Thomas are contributing, not why Rose should win MVP?

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Okay so your an idiot. Thanks for clearing that up for me. First of all Three of the Five players that you named played for Utah and NEVER had the same impact for them. D.Will who coming into this year was a Better PG than rose NEVER had an MVP type season. Never, and i can be darn sure that if Those same players were on ORL they would probably have a worse record. In addition to that, look at the players Lebron had in his back to back MVP seasons. None of those players are even on that team anymore let alone difference makers..pavlovich has been on like 3 ten day contracts this season. Verajo is a poor mans Joakim Noah. Mo williams is with the clippers.. Be honest dude. No one on those cavs teams were any good. IE.. Lebron left them for MIA. Believe me the Bulls this year have really gelled as a team but if you have the same gelling and take Derrick of the team and Noah/boozer miss the same amount of games the bulls only win 25-30 games. Derrick literally has that much of an impact on the bulls. Honestly bro your trying to sound reasonable and make us see both sides of the arguement but you sound like a Magic Fan. You really do.. Maybe you'd be better off on their blog campaiging for dwight.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:


    I stumbled across this interesting article. And there's a part of me that *almost* wants someone else to win, because I know DRose will be that much hungrier come playoffs and next season. I do think that he'll continue to work hard no matter what (contrary to what the article says) but I really don't understand all the negative buzz around him. I guess haters gonna hate.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    Why can't Howard get the Magic to be the best team despite their salary? Gee, maybe it's Howard isn't a great player, or maybe it's the fact Arenas is earning nearly 18 million and isn't a guy you'd want on your team for free. I don't know, call me crazy, but I think the later might be more of a factor.

    I mean if you want to talk salary the Bulls team last year was paid more than this year's team, why couldn't Rose get them to 70 wins instead of 41 if this year's team is going to get 60? Could it be because salary isn't always a good indication of quality when it comes to NBA players?

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    It's all speculation. What you can go by is some stats and some eye-test. Howard's team is good but not elite. It is ridiculous to suggest switching Rose and Howard to see how they do or salaries etc... The bottom line is Howard has not been able to get his team into the top 3. I would say unless your team is top 3/5 and you are making a major impact(which Howard is definitely), you cannot be a MVP front-runner.

  • In reply to cecowger:

    People say Hollinger only counts stats but he says Kobe would win the MVP under best player on the best team criteria. By his own stats based rankings the Bulls are the best team ... clearly this isn't a guy only using stats to form his opinions.

    I think Hollinger is right on the money about Rose with this quote: "Congratulations for stumbling on the strongest plank in Rose's MVP case -- the This Is How We've Always Done It defense."

    And come on, how can you not like this quip from him about the coach of the year "Thibodeau has to be first for how he has the Bulls playing, although VDN should get a cut of his trophy". Made me LOL.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    i have no problems with an argument lebron being a better/stronger candidate for mvp, but i don't think howard nor kobe has a stronger argument for mvp than rose.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    Why do you feel lebron deserves it more than rose? Just curious as to why you think so

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    LeBatard is not the Heat beat writer. just sayin'...

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    The one thing that PER does not take into account is leadership and the ability to get ALL players on your team to player better than before. I believe that's where Derrick stands heads and shoulders above Lebron, Dwight, Dirk and to a lessor extent Kobe.

    When things are not going well for the Heat Lebron just tries to take over the game and shun all other players (exept Wade) to the detrement of the TEAM.

    Dwight complains about his teammates rather than helping them become better players and lets his frustration out on the Refs (more suspensions for T's coming!). Is that the example a MVP should set. And lets not talk about clutch!

    Dirk unfortunately just can't get his myriad of stars to perform. When he was injured they failed; when in a tough game even if Dirk plays well they fail so where is his ability to make others better.

    Kobe's ego sometimes makes him think he has to score 81pts to win a game but when he decides to make RonRon a better on court asset he demonstrates MVP calibre.

    Personally I think Booz is the reason why Derrick should get the MVP. Carlos was a big free-agent signing, has a lot more experience in the league than Derrick but all you have to do is listen to him when Chuck interviews him and you'll understand why Derrick is the MVP. Carlos is for every saying Derrick makes this team better, he leads by example and his humility means all the Bulls are more than happy to be with him - INCLUDING all the veterans. That unity creates great benches and reserves (like Big Sexy who always steps up when asked to) and by having Derrick (and Thibs because I do believe this is a 2 man thing) as the leaders of the pack the Bulls are (lets be honest here) over-achieving.

    PER will never account for the influence one player has on the rest of the team. EWA to be brutally honest can be seen as the "I must do it all because I don't trust my teammates" stat! And who leads that stat - enough said!!

    So the value Derrick brings to the Bulls is the inspiration so others will step up; and THAT is why he is the MVP!

  • In reply to Jersey66:

    + 1,000,000

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Where the perspective gets lost is that this is just an award. Every award has some amount of politics, popularity, novelty, and other outside influences. The NBA MVP is a very commercial award, and if they want it to have commercial appeal, it has to be about more than the advanced statistics that most NBA fans don't care a whole lot about.

    I'm not about to say Rose is the best player in the league, but that's not what the MVP is about. It's also about the best story. It's about popularity. If you're going to be a complete jerk the way LeBron was it's going to affect how people vote. It's human nature. People don't like to vote for people they don't like. The game's appeal goes beyond numbers for most people and the MVP award simply follows suit.

    The advanced statistic community can create their own "Player of the Year" award based strictly on numbers with complete analysis and my guess is that the broader NBA fan base would lose interest. And really that sort of interest is what the NBA or any business is about.

    Why Hollinger continues to bang his head against the wall over an MVP award is beyond me. He takes himself way too seriously. It's not like science where misinformed public opinion or commercial motivations can be potentially disastrous. It's just commercial entertainment. And Hollinger needs to accept that things like popularity, politics, and a good story all have a role to play.

  • In reply to walrus:

    Not only was that well put, but also very true. IMO anyway

  • In reply to walrus:

    I expect LeRetard to come back with an article stating that this was a MJ-esque move by LBJ to 1). deflect attention away from his team come playoff time, 2). Put more pressure on the Bulls come playoff time and 3). provide extra motivation to himself.

    Of the three, I think only the first one is accurate in any way. When the Heat inevitably bomb out in the playoffs to an under-manned Celts team, at least LBJ won't have to hear about how it was another MVP season gone to waste, or anything about the MVP not being able to pull the team through.

    Total blame deflection move by LBJ, nothing more.

  • In reply to walrus:

    I think LeBatard is funny and usually the best part of PTI when he is on it. Of course he is a homer, why shouldnt he be. I'm not holding that against him. Plus crazier things have been said than LeBron for MVP. That said, Rose will OFCOURSE win it. :-)

  • In reply to walrus:

    Oh and Hollinger is a moron. He can go jerk off with his scientific calculator while the rest of us actually watch NBA games.

    Anyone who fancies themselves a stat/math/numbers guy is most likely missing some other very important skill sets. You all know the nerds I'm talking about. Can pass a calculus test but cant hold a conversation...like in all things in life you need balance and Hollinger doenst have that balance imo.

  • In reply to bullswin60606:

    LOL! +1000! Yeah, he's just an attention getting geek! And FWIW, here's yet ANOTHER great stastics quote:

    90% of people have an above-average number of legs!

    Think about it...

  • In reply to petert23:

    ha, thats funny, but illustrates proper context perfectly

  • In reply to bullswin60606:

    One more... I hope this doesn't annoy folks (let me know), but I'm going to copy what I posted at Bulls.com in reply to Scottie Pippin's EXCELLENT article on DRose for MVP:

    They said he had no jump shot - he got one.
    They said he needed a 3-point shot, he's got one now.
    They said he couldn't defend, now he's an integral part of the best defense in the league.
    They said he wasn't going hard enough into traffic, now he scores 7-10 a game at the line - and he made that adjustment in the middle of the season.
    They said he needed to be the team's Leader. He replied, "I want to be MVP, why not me?" and then "I want to be MVP because that means I made my team better."
    Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Steve Nash, LeBron James and Tyson Chandler have named him their MVP in recent weeks.
    They said our Bulls were "improving". We said, the hell with that, we're going to be champions soon, probably this year, and maybe start a dynasty. WHY NOT!?!
    What a great year to be a Bulls and NBA fan. I LOVE THIS GAME!
    P.S. Scottie, you're almost as good a writer as you were a defender. Keep it up! I want to see you shake his hand when he wins...

  • In reply to petert23:

    I'm not annoyed. I do not agree that Pip is a great writer, but I do enjoy his opinion.

  • In reply to petert23:

    Amazing how this MVP debate rages on. I have given up on stat geeks and really don't engage them anymore because you can't convince them that their stats should be used to augment a stance, not the sole criteria in deciding. Sticking with the old K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid) I've come up with a basic question to ask when deciding who should be MVP. I think this question is really what the spirit of the MVP award is all about, let's see what you think:

    "What player has lead his team to it's highest possible level of play throughout the entire year?"

    Let's break it down.

    1. Lebron? Well, I think we can all agree the Heat have had several issues throughout the year that have cost them the #1 seed. Any case for LeBron is easily shot down by the horrendous stretch when the Miami Heat went 1-18 in game winning or tying shots when down by 3 or less in the last seconds. A true MVP should have lifted his team and nailed at least a third of those opportunities. At least try get to the line, but LeBron shys away from that route, which even more so proves my case against LeBron. The Heat are out of sync as often as they are in sync. So the answer is no, LeBron has not lead his team to it's highest possible level of play. I give the Heat a "B-" for the year as a whole.

    2. Howard. The Magic have the 8th best record in the league,
    Howard is a questionable leader with a bad temper, and he is a liability on the floor in the last 2 minutes of a close game because of his poor free throw shooting. Howard is a stat geeks wet dream, but how can the MVP be a liabilty at crunch time? He can't, it's as simple as that. So again, has Dwight lead his team to it's highest possible level of play. Not even close in my estimation. I give the Magic a "B-" for their overall play this year.

    3. Kobe. Kobe is the only one that has a good case in my opinion. He's a great leader, makes his teammates better, and most people would pick him over any other player in the league to take the last shot of the game. Bryant is the best closer in the game end of story, and stat geeks can keep LeBron for the last two minutes of tight game, I'll take Kobe. Where Kobe fails this year is that he's only been getting his team to play at it's highest possible level for the last third of the year, not the entire year, which knocks his status down. I give the Lakers an "A-" for their overall play this year.

    4. Rose. I could go through all of the things Rose has done, but I think we all know what they are for the most part. Overcoming team injuries, settling in with a new coaching staff and 8 new players, growing before our eyes as the unquestioned leader of this ballclub, and becoming one of the better closers in the league, etc. Just ask yourself again, what player has lead his team to it's highest possible level of play? It's unquestionably Derrick Rose. I give the Bulls an "A+" for their overall play this year and it was orchestrated beautifully by Rose.

    I might sound like a homer, but if you break it down into the simplest terms, I think my criteria for MVP holds the most weight.

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  • I think these kind of statements exemplify Hollinger's shallow understanding of the game beyond statistics. The influence Baron Davis has on a team and the influence Derrick Rose have on a team are like night and day -- even if they put up the same exact numbers.

  • I saw the chat details...by coincidence he has seen possibly the few bad games Rose has played.
    If he has to go by stats, we don't need voting. Just put up the stats on a website like wins and losses, award it to the 1st guy on the list.

  • No he said he'd seen 4 games in person. He didn't say how many other games he'd watched at home (my money would be on most, if not all, of them).

  • I don't think he ever said Howard got more defensive attention. His giving the MVP to Howard seems mostly based on these couple of quotes:

    "The issue isn't whether it's valuable. The issue is whether it's more valuable than what's been done by every single other player in the entire league. Orlando is third in the NBA in defense with no good defensive players except Howard. Ponder that for a second. Tough to compete with value like that."

    "Rose is more responsible than any one else on the Bulls ... but the responsibility is a lot more widely distributed than it is on most teams. Like I mentioned in the story, Boozer, Noah and Deng would all be Orlando's second-best player, so it's tough to make the Rose-has-done-it-with-nothing claim. And the bench, of course, has been lights out."

    Which is IMO completely correct. Howard is more valuable to the Magic than Rose is to the Bulls, and it's not even close.

    And yes, players season resume's should be enough. But Rose has the good story angle going for him so he's being pumped up way past what he's actually doing. Hollinger is right to be one of the few voices of dissent, saying "hey, this is BS, he's not actually as good as you say yet when you look at his actual game".

    I find the Baron Davis comparison to be pretty on point really ... he has been jacking up way too many threes at a terrible percentage lately. He'd be a much better player if he'd stop doing that. Do you really like Rose taking that many threes? Do you think it's helping the team? I sure don't, and since my horse in this race is the Bulls as a team, not Derrick Rose, when Rose is doing something bad I'm not going to pretend he's perfect because it makes him sound more like a MVP.

  • San Antonio lost again and Lakers won.
    When Lakers defeat Spurs in LA on April 12th they

  • Hollinger didn't say he was Baron Davis, just that he was putting up Baronesque stats.

    How many games do the Bulls win without Rose? I'd guess somewhere in the order of 45 games. The defense is good enough that even if you think the offense would be on the Cavs level without Rose (and IMO it would be better) that's how many games they'd win. I think everyone forgets that if you offense is bad, but not as bad as your offense is good, you still win more games than you lose. The Bulls offense would have to drop to immediately post-Jordan levels to only put up 35 wins with their defense.

    Meanwhle the Magic would be down there in the deep lottery without Howard. They'd be awful defensively and offensively. I mean do they even have another above average NBA player other than Howard? Maybe Nelson on a good day but that's it.

    And clutch situations are over rated. Without Howard there's be so many blowouts nobody would give a crap if players were hitting free throws in the last minute because the Magic would be down double digits.

    IMO Howard is worth roughly twice as many wins as Rose is. We're talking 30 wins vs 15 here. The Bulls success is based on how strong they are as a team, Rose is a very good player but he's not carrying the team solo.

  • "Now I'm starting to believe you're giving Hollinger a free pass because of who he is."

    I think the irony is that Hollinger benefits from the same kind of publicity and exposure that Rose does. He gets a lot more attention than any other analyst, not because he is necessarily the best at what he does, but because of who he works for.

    Anyone think Hollinger would complain if he won a hypothetical "Statistician of the Year" award even though he would undoubtedly get votes because of ESPNs popularity and wide spread accessibility?

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