Are the Bulls simply lucky for landing Rose?

Yes and no.   I wanted to discuss this thought, because I hear it frequently.    The Bulls are lucky to have landed Rose in an absolute sense.   Of course they are.   The Spurs were lucky to have landed Tim Duncan when they were an elite team and Robinson blew his knee out.   The Lakers were lucky the Grizzlies traded Pau Gasol, that Shaq came to LA before RFA, and that Kobe Bryant somehow fell to 13 and was available for Vlade Divac.

The Celtics were lucky that Kevin McHale, GM of the Timberwolves, was a former Celtic and preferred to work with them on the Garnett trade.   The Heat are lucky that the Pistons took Darko Milicic instead of Dwyane Wade, or else the trinity would never have ended up there.

Since the best teams in the NBA are driven by elite superstars, the best teams always have a fair amount of luck involved in their creation.   Maybe it's just the ping pong balls, maybe it's a random luck that allowed them to even get to the ping pong ball spot in the first place.   It could be a rule change or making a move just before a rule change.

There is always an element of chance when a team falls into a great player, and while the 1.7% chance to land Rose seems like longer luck than most, it only begins to make up for the unfathomable bad luck the Bulls have had since Jordan's retirement (which I suppose you could say only begun to make up for the luck of drafting Jordan falling to third in the first place, of course that was making up for the bad luck in our just missing out on Magic Johnson).

I don't believe luck is cyclical, but if you roll the dice often enough, you eventually get the ever elusive yahtzee, and the Bulls were simply due for something to fall in their direction.

Let's take a look at the Bulls luck since Jordan's retirement.

The lockout season and new CBA

Jerry Krause had positioned the Bulls to have basically no money on the books at all heading into the following season, and it was one of the best free agent classes in the history of the league.   At the time, there was no maximum salary for players, and the Bulls were expected to outbid other teams on their top two choices, Tim Duncan and Tracy McGrady.

They also had incoming draft picks Ron Artest and Elton Brand.  

If the new CBA doesn't come in and put a cap on individual player salaries, the Bulls likely land Tim Duncan, however, the new rules make it so that Duncan can make more money with the Spurs than Bulls.    If the Bulls landed Duncan, they would have also landed another top tier FA, because they would have had a legit superstar.

You're talking about a team being rebuilt with Duncan, McGrady, Artest, and Brand as it's core.   Does that team win titles?   It probably does.  If the CBA was negotiated one year later, the Bulls might have won multiple titles immediately after the Jordan era.

The new CBA in 2005

The Bulls have the #2 pick in the 2006 draft, the pick that should have been Kevin Durant.  Unfortunately, Kevin Durant is forced to go to college for a year because of the CBA that was renegotiated that summer.  If that CBA were drafted simply one year later, the Bulls would be headlined by Kevin Durant right now.

We'd have missed out on Rose of course, but we'd have had a damn elite team anyway, and we wouldn't think much about missing out on Rose like we don't think much about missing out on Blake Griffin. 

Now, I'd rather have Rose than Durant right now, but I doubt any of us would be complaining about a team with Kevin Durant on it.

The Bulls had tons of lotto picks, but never high enough in the right draft

There weren't tons of superstars entering the league in most of the Bulls down years, and we never had the right pick at the right time.  

If you look at the superstars that entered the league over that stretch:

2000: We have #4 and #8 in one of the worst drafts ever
2001: We have #2 and #4 in one of the worst drafts ever (though we miss Pau Gasol at #3 for Tyson Chandler)
2002: We have #2 and get Jay Williams (miss Ming by 1) and he ends his career with a motorcycle accident
2003: Imagine if we had our picks of any of the last three years here?   But no, we pick this season to win 30 games and get #7, miss out on LeBron,Wade, Melo, and Bosh
2004: Miss out on Dwight Howard by two picks
2005: no first
2006: Screwed by Durant rule, and we fubar the draft
2007: Grab Noah at #9
2008: Grab Rose

Really, the Bulls draft luck up until the point where they grab Noah / Rose was simply abysmally bad.   It wasn't that they drafted poorly (outside of Krause's decision to take Chandler over Gasol and Paxson taking a risk on Tyrus's upside vs Roy/Aldridge's safety), but it was never the right place at the right time.   They just had the wrong picks in the wrong years, and when they hit on a player who has legit star potential, he ends his career in an motorcycle accident after one season.

We always had the right package at the wrong time for trades

I know people love to blame GarPax for the lack of trades the Bulls have made, and their inability to bring in a superstar, but they never had the right package at the right time.   The Bulls offered Tyson Chandler, Luol Deng and a #1 for Kevin Garnett back when those were valuable trade assets, and Minnesota said no thanks, only to trade him for Al Jefferson and chips later.

They offered about Gordon, Nocioni (when they had strong value) and a pick for Pau Gasol only to see him get traded for a heap of crap and two future rolls of toilet paper.   In both years, the Bulls made offers that exceeded what the player actually went for one year later, but the Bulls offer the following year in each case wasn't as appealing due to a change in the player or his contract.

Things were always close to coming together, but never quite there.

So were the Bulls lucky to get Rose?

Hell yes.  I'm getting a 1.7% tattoo if the Bulls win a title with Rose.

However, after some crazy twists of fate over the previous decade, I'm taking it and not apologizing for it.   The Bulls haven't had a ton of luck since the Jordan retirement, no reason to act like we didn't deserve some the one time it rolls are way.

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  • Great article, you're spot on. The same could be said for the 1987 draft. How did the Bulls get two top 10 picks for Pippen and Horace (the reasons Jordan won the first three rings). I know Krause was crafty but Jordan breaking his foot and missing a bunch of games had to make some difference.

    The whole point of a lottery draft is luck (obviously). That's how a team like OKC can pick up Durant and Westbrook in two straight drafts, and the Bulls got Noah and Rose -- two tandems with a good chance of winning multiple titles together over their careers, assuming they turn out to be loyal guys and avoid major injuries.

  • In reply to JonoHimself:

    I think the #8 pick they used to draft Olden Polynice - who they traded for Pippen (who was drafted #5 by Seattle) came from the Orlando Woolridge trade a few years earlier. The #10 pick was already theirs. The Bulls were lucky Seattle was willing to trade Pippen for Polynice.

  • The funny thing is the year the Bulls drafted Rose some people said they should draft Beasley. There was actually some debate to take a big over a pg, but even with the luck they made the right choice. My favorite part of this is how Pax was not even watching the draft lottery because he figured they had no chance when his kids started going nuts yelling that the Bulls won the first pick.

  • NBA rigged it in my opinion. No way we get Rose with a 1.9% chance. The NBA saw a big market in Chicago and saw that we had no superstar....and the #1 prospect coming out of college was a Chicago kid. They saw what LeBron did for Cleveland....they thought Rose would do the same. Which looks to be true.

    Also...there was a article that just came out that said Blake Griffin was the winner of the Dunk Contest 4 hours before the contest even began. It also said that Blake really wanted to dunk over a Bigger and Nicer car then the Kia he jumped over. And in case you havent seen....Kia came out with a commercial of Blake Griffin jumping over their car.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    The NBA didn't want LeBron in Cleveland. They didn't want Duncan in San Antonio. They didn't want Oden/Durant in Portland/Seattle.

    The draft conspiracy stuff is ludicrous, because since Patrick Ewing, there hasn't been an attractive, can't miss star landing in a major market.

    Derrick Rose wasn't even the consensus #1 pick when the Bulls won the lottery and neither him or Beasley were viewed as can't miss guys.

    This also is laughable because the draft is conducted by a third party who runs the machines and execs from each team are present there.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    He also forgot that 9-11 was an inside job. I mean, if you are going to go conspiracy crazy you may as well go all the way.
    Lady Luck, on a serious note, is a magnificent thing.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Who says they didnt want LeBron in Cleveland? Where else would he go? Detroit...who were already really good at the time. They werent gonna give the Pistons LeBron. Denver? Toronto? Why not send one of the most hyped players in NBA history to his hometown team where he has a incredible following?

    Duncan landed in San Antonio because of David Robinsons injury. He could of went to Philly to team up with AI, but he ended going to San Antonio to create the twin towers.

    Oden and Durant....who said the NBA didnt want them there? The Sonics were being moved and the NBA thought why not have a great player like Durant to help ease the move. NBA is trying to get every team a superstar. Oden to Portland was suppose to be a making of another twin tower, with him and Aldridge.

    Rose should not be a Chicago Bull....when was the last time a team as far as 9th won the #1 pick? Never happens....Also kind of fishy knowing Rose is from Chicago.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Mostly everybody knew Rose was going to be the Bulls pick. In fact that was the first thing i said when I saw we got the pick. How could they pass on their hometown kid with superstar talent? Beasley has been a problem ever since he was in high school. Dude went to like 5 high schools or something...Bulls never take on trouble makers.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    If you want to pretend the NBA rigs the league in order to make assloads and assloads less money then be my guest.

    I'm of the opinion that if the NBA were to rig the league they would do so in order to maximize profit.

    There hasn't been a can't miss prospect going to a major market since Patrick Ewing.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Orlando won it the year after they got shaq with the worst odds.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    Worth noting at that time the odds of them winning still weren't that bad and were more similar to winning it from the 6 or 7 spot now off the top of my head. They radically changed the odds after Orlando's second win for that reason.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    KARMA:

    Not lucky, just blessed with good Karma.

    1.) They treated Jay Williams the right way, after his career ending injury.

    2.) They treated Eddy Curry the right way, after he developed a Heart issue.

    GOOD KARMA = Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Good points we were classy with Williams and Curry!
    Pippen is hanging around and is going to join Funk and King as an announcer!
    If only JJ picked up more from Pip! :-)

  • In reply to smiley:

    JJ had a great game the other night....something like 9pts, 7reb, an 7 assist...hes playing well for them.

  • In reply to smiley:

    Not that I give a crap about what he thinks, but Curry certainly didn't think that the Bulls treated him right, at least not at the time.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I think the 2002 draft was a combination of good and bad luck. Bulls draft Jay Williams who was on his way to being a superstar point guard in my opinion. Rookie of the year if I remember correctly. Bad luck...ends his career in a motorcycle accident after his rookie year.

    Good luck...Bulls are able to start over right away because if we get the #1 pick and draft Ming in '02, we would still be lingering around in mediocrity with all of his injuries and huge contract. Houston has done pretty well considering how bad Yao's injuries have messed up their plans, but they haven't been good enough to really become a contender and not bad enough to get any good draft picks. I'm pretty sure that would have been Chicago's fate if they lucked into the #1 pick that year.

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    Jay Williams was not rookie of the year, Amare was.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    This could be true

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Totally agree with you Happy. The Bulls have definitely been a class act in bad situations. That's what bothers me the most when fans dogg our front office. To me they have always been trying to get it right. They arent sitting around puposely keeping this team down by not getting a quality SG...I've got faith in this team/organization.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I agree with you MrHappy, and would like to give PAX and management a lot of credit for the Noah pick. They were dead set on grabbing him. I have a funny feeling Rose and Noah will bring the bacon home this year!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    no such thing as karma

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    There are some arguments when it comes to the NBA and how they handle some of their business. Everyone knew Lebron was going to Cleveland, the Lakers were handed Gasol for nothing cause of Jerry West, Boston and Minnesota were able to make those blockbuster trades because of the friendship of Ainge and Mchale and why is it that during the draft lottery the NBA never televise the event like they did before? Same goes for the Bulls during the Jordan years, why would an owner and manger want to break up a dynasty that could've won at least one more championship during the shortened 98/99 season? Why didn't they bring Phil Jackson back, he was still winning championships? I understand its a business but anyone who is competitive and still wants to win won't break up a team like the Bulls had back then. But I guess it always comes down to money cause they were locked out. Bottom line tho, its always something shady going on in the NBA that's why a lot of people want a lock out this year basically cause of what has happened in Miami and now N.Y. Some people call some of these transactions the business of the game, while other call it shady business, I tend to lean towards the latter even tho players like Ewing, and Duncan were destined to land on their respected teams and in the Bulls case, they may have won the first pick in 08 but it was left up to them whether they screwed it up or not. There's always going to be arguments when it comes to the NBA.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Look, you can put holes in anything if your mindset is conspiracy oriented. All this big market/small market is jealousy. If you position yourself well as Miami did, you can sign 3 stars. Doug already explained the case with Boston and LA. Gasol/Garnett with their years of failure looked like 2nd options rather than 1st options. That's why there was not a big bidding war at that time from teams which didn't already have superstars.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Thats also true...you can tie assumptions into things.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    yea good points

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Did I mention there's no way anyone in their right mind when we have three guards/shooters who can't shoot would add another one/waste that opp. to add a player on another one? If the Bulls do not sign Butler I will be at peace with missing out on Bibby and Murphy(and Lee and Mayo). I will say Omer is looking more and more like he could just be an interior defensive beast. And on offense if he can just add a little more strength. I mean he can already clear out space for dunks on many guys like Javale McGee last night. And the refs are giving him major respect - way, way up from where he started the season. And Taj is an instinctive b-baller who also appears to be a great guy. So f-ck me for wanting to dump him. Yeah, fuck me(but not literally I mean I've never done prison time or anything).

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    As long as you say it in three paragraphs or (preferably) less, we'll all be winners.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Apologize for the MP's(Multiple posts) final note:

    I'm just wondering, would I rather have Butler the lousy player who can't hit the side of a f-ing barn, or sign Azubuike who is a very good NBA player/guard/check out his numbers.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/azubuke01.html

    Think about it just what if he does end up being able to play in April/May? And even if not we bascially maybe can get him on the cheap for next year? Look at Livingston, and what he did to his knee. Yet he looks completely recovered even though in a limited role/minutes. I don't know. Doug, heard anything/any idea is a ruptured patella tendon something players have come back from? Or anybody else know?

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Im not really sure...but guys like Kenyon Martin an Nene, and Amare all look fine coming off knee injuries. If Azubuike wants to come here for the league min, ill take him. But if were looking for help right now, then Butler is probably what we will go with.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Bulls also got Asik in that draft day trade in 2008. His development this year is making the 2008 draft look even better, as if we thought that was even possible.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Why would the NBA want LeBron in one of the worst markets in the league? The Bulls and Knicks both had lotto picks that year and would have made the league probably an extra 200 million minimum if he went to one of those cities.

    The idea that the NBA wanted LeBron in Cleveland is completely unfathomable unless you think the NBA rigs the draft in order to lose money.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    AHHHHH!!!!! second time i'm typing all of this!!! damn internet connection at jury duty!

    i wouldn't go as far as saying the whole NBA or every draft is rigged, but in the case of Lebron and Rose, i have been subscribing to that theory for a while now. i mean, is it just coincidence that the Cavs had the worst record AND first pick, which usually isn't the case and why they have the lottery. is it also a coincidence that the Bulls have a 1.7% chance the year there is a Chicago kid as an up-and-coming stud? the NBA is a star-driven league and loves a good storyline. so why not have an Ohio kid heralded as the second coming in his hometown (this is not to say the NBA was trying to push Cleveland as some major market)? or have a potential superstar jumpstart a floundering marquee franchise. ultimately, i think the NBA is good when NY, LA, BOS, and CHI are good. no coincidence that ratings are up this year.

    ...also, sports is big business working under government sanctions through anti-trust laws. we all know lots goes on behind closed doors we don't know about. so just because the league says the lottery is conducted by a third party blah blah blah doesn't mean there still isn't wheeling and dealing we don't know about... or maybe its just the cynic in me speaking. i guess i just don't take too many of these kinds of things at face value these days.

  • In reply to wukrza:

    Ya i agree...an to me, once you hear about something, theres always a little truth to it. Look at the NBA ref Donoghoy or whatever his name is. He was saying that the NBA riggs game as well. Im sure there a little truth to that dont ya think?

  • In reply to wukrza:

    Again, tell me why the NBA gives a crap if a kid ends up in his home town? They don't. It doesn't make them any money.

    The NBA lost tons of money because LeBron went to Cleveland. They didn't want him there. They'd have done anything to get him to New York. The league would mint money if LeBron was in NY. They would have minted money if LeBron went to Chicago.

    If they were going to rig things superstars would always end up on the Lakers, Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics. When it comes to the draft that simply has not happened.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    This is MrHappy's theory of every star wanting to go back to their hometown or play with their friends. The correct theory is they will go where they can 1) Make more money 2) They can win in that order.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I agree, but still, the NBA needs to show taped footage of the ping pong ball selection

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I Agree! If they simply show the ping-pong ball selection - and do so LIVE - all speculation about conspiracies would cease.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Out of topic: OKC just extended Kendrick Perkins to multi year deal.
    Sam Presti doesn't sleep on duty...
    OKC looks perennial contender next decade...
    Bulls need someone to give them some fight in the Finals... :D

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    The biggest problem with Perkins is his offense and FT shooting. He is a liability at the end of close games. If you shutdown Durant(he is no Jordan or LeBron)with physical players like Artest. The key for them is Ibaka. If his offense develops, they will have a three headed monster with Perkins being a key cog.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Let me just say i would rather take Durant on that last ball possession to win a game...
    And he is only 22y old...
    Perkins+Ibaka will make a power frountcourt duo - and then they have Durant+Westbrook to take the scoring load. Sounds good to me if I were a OKC fan...

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    Look at what happened with the last Lakers game. If they had an inside scorer like a Boozer, they could have dumped the ball to that guy. It had to be Westbrook and Durant shooting crazy shots. I am not saying they are not good but Perkins flourished with Garnett(a good offensive player). If Ibaka can develop decent offense, he will be a good fit..that's all I am saying. Otherwise, it will be like having Noah and Asik in the front-court.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    That might be - we just have to watch and see how it goes. NBA is going to be fun next few years.

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    Blaming the CBA for Krause's horrible rebuilding is a CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The maximum salary was in place after the lockout which happened right after the third 3-peat. These rules were in place before Krause made the first move to clear cap space.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    The Bulls had already planned for years before the dynasty ended to have the clean break and have space, and sign stars and the lockout made that impossible.

    This doesn't excuse Krause for what he did, he sucked after Jordan retired. It's just pointing out that Krause's plan may have worked if it weren't for the new CBA. It doesn't excuse him blowing all his money.

    It's to point out that there was poor luck.

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    The whole article seems like a bunch of poor excuses. Drafing guys like Wade and Kobe seem like a lot less luck than drafing Rose. Wad wasn't a no-brainer and was projected to slip past the Miami pick.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    How is it excuses? It's simply saying that luck was a large factor in how things turned out, and a lot of little things went against the Bulls that could have easily gone in their favor.

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    Krause:

    1. Break up a championship team and put in a puppet coach
    2. ????
    3. Get Duncan and McGrady

    Bulls didn't even target Duncan as I recall.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    Naww they didnt....they wanted Grant Hill, Tmac an then they brought in Eddie Jones as well.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    That's what I recall as well. Hell of a stretch to say Bulls would have Duncan and McGrady except for bad luck.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    aww come on, everyone would have targeted Duncan

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    You have to believe they knew about Perkins' knee problems, and that they mainly wanted the 26 year old big man involved in their future plans. I mean, did they even give him a physical?

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    You could say same of Bynum, and Lakers look pretty happy with him...

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    Bynum was never traded

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Celtics didn't have money for his extension - so Ainge decided to at least get something back.
    High risk, high reward move, if it works...

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    I'd say high-moderate risk, moderate-low reward. if that's true about money, then certainly you have to criticize them for not wanting to spend money. Despite Green's deficiencies, I would imagine he'll demand 7-10 mil per year anyways.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    34.8M over 4 years. And this year gets 2.3M "raise"... according to: http://twitter.com/wojyahoonba

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    I think you're missing my point though. OKC added Perkins thinking about the future, & I think it was a great move. Not so much for boston

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    agree 100% - but i can understand why Ainge made the deal, and I guess he thinks the team can still go all the way without Perkins. For the Bulls playoff hopes was a great move...

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    Boston just signed Troy Murphy... this is getting interesting

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    I saw that. I'm glad he didn't sign with the Heat. They're going to get Bibby, but I actually don't mind. Good shooter, no D...and Miami has had trouble stopping other PGs...so Bibby won't help there -- and probably hurts. Overall, I don't think he helps much.

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    yeah, I agree, I can understand why, but if I were a Boston fan, I would be outraged that they are noth willing to spend

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    For all the things Chicago fans say about Jerry Krause, the reality is that is always had a strategy and executed it perfectly.
    Of course the results were not always the best... but nevertheless, we had opportunities to grow with high draft picks after the Jordan years, too bad Chandler+Curry combo was not exactly championship material...

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    The one beef about Krause was he thought because of his great belief in the "organization wins championships", he can replace the MJ dynasty in a few years because kids will be lining up to come to the Bulls.
    The other thing to nitpick is he could have drafted some high schoolers during the Jordan era and later and allowed them to develop like a Rashard Lewis.

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    I was looking through a bunch of the drafts from the early 2000s, and the Bulls did do a pretty good job. Most of the time they were spot on with their picks (except for the random 2nd rounders that developed, but that would be a crapshoot anyway). And the Baby Bulls could have been legit, especially seeing how Duncan + Robinson dominated the league during that time. And for a while it seemed like the draft classes were really weak (up until Lebron,etc).

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    So apparently the Heat are going to release Carlos Arroyo to pick up Bibby. Arroyo was shooting .438 from 3s, yet other factors, including defense, caused him to lose his job. How is that a whole lot different than what they should expect from Bibby? Bibby may be a veteran but he's frustrated the Hawks for years. I just don't see this as a big upgrade for them...am I wrong?

  • In reply to walrus:

    You are 100% right.

  • In reply to walrus:

    I agree, kind of a lateral move

  • In reply to walrus:

    Not wrong at all.
    I have no idea what Miami sees in Bibby that everyone else doesn't.
    Maybe this is just a way to appease their fan base who know how horrible their PG position has been all year.
    Unfortunately, I don't think their fans understand that the problem with their PG position has absolutely nothing to do with their PG. It has to do with their SF, who thinks he's a PG, but doesn't have the skills or basketball IQ.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    It seems like Lebron and Wade just run iso's 90% of the time, so it's not going to make much difference whether it's Arroyo or Bibby in there.

    The other night against the Knicks, on one play, NY played decent D, Lebron picked up his dribble near the foul line, with no shot available, does he pass it? No, he decides to throw himself a lob off of the backboard for the highlight play and takes too many steps in the process and gets called for a travel! I find it hilarious that he'd rather take crappy shots than play as a team.

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    I think it's hilarious too, but I don't find it surprising at all.

    Lebron's attitude has always been ... no one can do "it" as well as I do. Which is probably what he's been told his entire life.
    So why should I pass the ball.
    You could see it in the All star game. He's got the best PG in the league out there in Rose, and yet Lebron wants to make every play and take every shot.

    Until Lebron understands that for a team to succeed, all 5 guys on the floor need to work together, I won't fear that team. Not that I expect that from an All-Star game, but his attitude has always been the same. From Cleveland to Miami, it's been the same story.

    On the other hand, it's one of the things I've been the most pleased to see from our Bulls team. They play like a team, not a group of individuals.
    And as much as some haters from other teams like to say that Rose takes too many shots or scores too much to ever be a champion, what they don't seem to understand is that Rose runs the teams offense. He just happens to have a large roll offensively on this team.
    When Rose starts going one on one every play and telling his teammates to get out of the way, then I'd be worried about our team.
    But I'm pretty confident that that is just not going to happen. Rose just doesn't work that way. Thankfully.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to kayak0109:

    I'd never really thought about the Bulls' luck with CBAs before. Reinsdorf is kind of a ringleader among owners, you'd think he'd be able to push the contracts in a direction that would help the Bulls out. That explains why the Bulls have been looking more skittish about the next CBA than almost any other team. The way this year's free agent contracts were structured, dumping JJ for space (even though it makes sense generally), leaving every bit of flexibility possible for next year. You'd think they're trying to keep a "Going out of business" sign off the United Center door.

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    It wasn't rigged for Chicago -- Rose wasn't even the clear stand out. I've read about teams considering taking Beasley at no.1 if they had the first pick. Obviously a big mistake

  • In reply to walrus:

    Bibby is a bigger name, fits right in with what they're trying to do there in Miami.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Ahhh! I knew Bibby had an edge somewhere. Name value goes a long way in Miami!

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Al Thornton is the latest buyout. He can score a little, but he's inefficient...looks like a lot of teams are interested though.

  • In reply to walrus:

    Reports say he's going to GS. Why? Only Al Thornton can answer that question. lol

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    As John says, he can score a bit but is inefficient, why not go to the team where you can chuck as much as you like?

  • In reply to walrus:

    Thornton's a young player looking for a chance to get a nice second contract.

    He needs to go somewhere he can play and prove himself. GS is a nice place for him to have a good chance to score a lot and hopefully catch on somewhere else.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Has there been any word on Azubuike? Or anybody else besides Butler? All this silence makes me think they're just waiting on him...but then again, the Bulls usually keep things close to the vest.

  • In reply to walrus:

    John,

    Butler's agent said they will know no later than Thursday. He says he wants to go to a deep playoff team. There are other teams interested. At this point, I think we are just waiting on him to sign.

  • In reply to Vedo:

    Thanks Vedo! I've got a feeling it's going to be Butler since he'd cause minimum disruption to their team. Don't expect him to play much. Read somewhere that teams are a little wary of Azubuike but there are 13 teams after C. Brewer.

  • In reply to Vedo:

    Off topic but Bulls single season win record safe for another year as Spurs lose thier 11th game of the year.

  • In reply to takdan:

    The 3 things I cheer for every basketball season.

    1. Bulls to win a Championship

    2. Every other team to get at least 11 losses.

    3. Nobody getting 6 rings unless they are with Da Bulls.

    Yes I know I have some issues.

  • In reply to takdan:

    Eddy Curry bought out by Min. No buyout for Kapono.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    GREAT ARTICLE. This was pro material Doug, nice work.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    No team will pay that money for Green, certainly not the Celtics

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    oh really? Just wait & see

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    Green is valuable for Celtics. OKC just didn't have many shots for him considering they had Durant and Westbrook and Green not being a post-up player. But that said, Green is a unique(not big to be an inside player nor quick enough to be a complete perimeter player). He is a luxury for most teams rather than a necessity

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    Good stuff.

    Luck is part of the game. It's part of life for pete's sake. The Bulls did get lucky to get the #1 pick...so what? They've also been unlucky. Let's not pretend luck -- good or bad isn't a factor with every team in the league.

    And Beasley was very much in play. Early reports had the Bulls leaning that way. However, as time went on Rose picked up momentum during the draft process and character concerns began to crop up with Beasley. By the time the Bulls drafted, it was a foregone conclusion the Bulls would pick Rose, but it certainly wasn't always that way. Even at the end, nobody would have blamed the Bulls had they taken Beasley but, in the end, proper research and evaluation led the Bulls to capitalize on that luck.

  • In reply to Hanseatico:

    he hasnt even been there for a week lol an they already re-signed him....his knee would of needed to get better before Id do something like that.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Here is the reason why theu HAD TO sign him today: http://www.dailythunder.com/2011/03/kendrick-perkins-signed-to-multi-year-extension/

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    One thing we read about Bogans is how he helps Rose on where to be on offense. It is not easy to do that from bench or you can't get that from a Courtney Lee or OJ Mayo. Is this a big deal? I think so and I kind of understand of starting Bogans even if he has the slowest release for a SG. That's why he plays Bogans mostly in the beginning of the 1st quarter/3rd quarter so that the Bulls offense is run as per the game plan.
    So, based on that...I am guessing if the Bulls start a different SG, it has to be somebody who understands Thibs's offense well. Ronnie Brewer is probably the only guy who can replace Bogans I can think of. The buyout guys are not going to be replacing Bogans(Butler,Azubuike, Hamilton(if he is free))..

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Start Brewer then and bring Butler or others in off the bench

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    lol. I've heard this brought up before and even said it myself jokingly. No way the nba would rig a draft to put a player in a certain location. just plain luck.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I have to agree with you that since the Ewing draft, which might have been the last manual(they still used giant cards in a hopper picked by the commissioner)draft.

    However, I have seen slow motion video of the Ewing draft, and it was plain as daylight that the Knicks card was tampered with(bent corner) and the commissioner went out of his way to dig down into the hopper to reach for that card.

    Was the fix in, who knows, but it sure looked like it.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    I dislike conspiracy theories...but if I was skeptical. I would have wondered why Charlotte had such good luck in 1991-1992 or even worse the Magic in 1992-1993. Anybody remember that? Charlotte gets Larry Johnson/Alonzo Mourning in back to back drafts and Orlando gets the 1st pick 2 years straight, even after winning 41 games in 1992 with rookie Shaquille O'Neal. The GM at the time (Pat Williams was his name I think?) was shocked and I still remember the look on his face. Well, they built a potential great team, and it didn't work out, but they were extremely lucky. Happens a lot actually. However, i don't believe there is a conspiracy. Luck happens to all the teams, its what you do with the luck that separates the good from the bad.

  • In reply to Houston:

    Those are good points

  • In reply to Houston:

    I don't see anyone blaming Pax for drafting after not f-ing up the Derrick Rose pick and taking Joakim Noah over a lot of heat from fans and some media not to pick an offensively challenged "bust waiting to happen." I was sure as hell wrong on Joakim. I guess when you got a guy who has 37" vertical and can handle the ball and will break his abck for you/set the record for blocks in the NCAA tourney you might have soemthing there.

    There is the Ben Wallace mess, but as Doug says he was the consensus "best available free agent," and they had money that needed spent. I still maintain certain G.M.'s would have been smart enough to steer clear of a guy having his lowest rebounding and scoring numbers in five years/on his way down at 32. Why do Chicago teams always go after guys in their early 30's on the downside of their careers?

    John has often gone after character guys: Deng, Hinrich, Gordon. Yet he went slumming with guys like Tyrus and Jameson "I just wet myself" Curry. And Aaron Gray turned out to be a self-satisfied passive piece of flab. But John is not too arrogant. Not more so then anyone of stature need be. He's certainly not disngenuous or a snake. I would have to think the decent professionals in the NBA don't have a problem with John. Except sometimes he says he wants to make deals, but has no intention of parting with the real talent/players other teams say they want going in i.e waste of everyone's time.

    I just want guys who can shoot the ball, and Brewer, Bogans, and C.J. are not it. But in that circumstance I give him credit because they are still talented players, and not the stiffs they often signed before the all in 2010 FA summer like Jannero Pargo etc.

    As long as he doesn't sign Rasual .323 from three Butler when we have three guards who can not shoot I'll be happy. It just makes me sad that all these players always want to play for Riley/Miami. I know he's not coaching, but you can't tell me his involvement isn't still a major part of recruiting/thee equation. I know they have LeChoke and D-scusting, but jeez Riley punked Ewing into staying with a crew of loutish, offensively challeneged bumbs. And where did he end up? John Starks, Anthony Mason, Oakley, Derek Harper(turned him into a punk ass). In fact he turned them all into their worst natures/punk asses. Even Ewing to some extent with his sneer. And now everyone wants to "win rings" with Wade, LeBron, and a Riley led franchise. Well ladi f-ing dah. I just hope to god Miami wins nor mroe then two rings. But I digress.

  • In reply to Houston:

    Why would the NBA want to help out those two teams? Neither is a powerhouse ratings driver.

    Again, people say teh NBA made a team good it must be a conspiracy, but if you can't follow the money it makes no sense to think that.

    The league won't conspire to make less money. There will always be some top teams in the league by definition, and taking the circumstances those teams came together and saying it was rigged is silly.

    If it wasn't that team, a different top team would form under different circumstances. If it doesn't generate massive profits, then it's silly to call it a conspiracy.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    I think it was pretty obvious from that start that as long as Griffin didn't miss all of his dunks, he was going to win no matter what he did. With all of the Blakemania and being in LA, no one else had a chance.

    Speaking of the dunk contest, did they always miss so many attempts before making one. I just don't remember guys missing so many when I watched it growing up. It really takes the excitement out of it when they miss the same dunk 10x before making one.

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    Ya your right...an im not sure, guys these days are trying some harder dunks so ya, it takes them quite a few times sometimes. I hate that too. Vince Carter was amazing when he did it....he didnt miss a dunk once.

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    The dunk contest sucks nowadays, it really does. Too many missed dunks like you note, too many props like Derozan says, I mean that car dunk was lame, he jumped over the hood. They could do that dunk at the McDonalds All American dunk contest.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Seriously, I'm not all about the props but if he were to go over the middle of the car, it would have been totally different. I also agree with Derozan, a dunk contest should be about dunks and not just about props and hoopla.

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    They could change it up & it could be better, but the sad part is, the dunk contest has pretty much overstayed its welcome. Most everything has already been done. They realized this back in the 90's when it dissapeared for a few years, then brought it back, and it was cool for a while. Now its lame again, but the casual fan still gets all crazy about it.

    If they're going to keep it, they definately need to tweek it. A couple ideas I have:

    -get rid of rating each individual dunk, and wait until the entire series of dunks has been completed, then grade them as a group. The current rating system is flawed, all you see anyways are 9s & 10s, with a few 8s sprinkled in. Also, grade down for an attempted miss, we all do it mentally anyways.

    -Have a round where they all have to perform a specific dunk, especially a lot of old school dunks. This would be great, you could see how these young kids add a little of their own flair to the classics, kind of like how Derozan tried to do it.

    _I could add more, but whats the point, its just a dunk contest right? Who cares

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    The Clips would never let their #1 player jump over the middle of the car lol But ya, that dunk was pretty lame if you ask me.

  • In reply to kayak0109:

    If I'm not mistaken the final vote was a fan vote anyway, so yeah, no duh Blake won.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    The most glaring fix to me in my NBA history wasn't the draft, but Hugh Hollins calling the phantom foul by Scotty on Allan Houston in the NBA playoffs the year after Michael's retirement.
    Without that call, the Bulls win the series over the Knicks.

  • In reply to Waldock:

    That still kills me. That team was a lot like this years team in how much chemistry they had. I don't know if they would have beaten the Rockets, but we should have found out.

  • In reply to Waldock:

    Ese cabr

  • This is a good article because it provides insight into the Big Market/Small Market/Super Efficient teams theory. Look, I like Popovich. He got lucky and got Duncan. If not, Pop is no HOF. You can claim Minnesota didn't do anything with Garnett. Garnett didn't have that extra bit of talent compared to Duncan. Even the Lakers getting Kobe was a shot. Kobe was from high school and I don't think they had the technology to even review him a lot. It was pure luck that Kobe became a megastar. But we have to credit them though as nobody else saw that.
    Getting the 1st pick was luck but picking Rose was not completely luck. There were talking mouths on ESPN telling Bulls need to pick Beasley as he was the inside scorer they were missing. So, kudos to Pax on that.

  • Rose wasn't viewed as a can't miss star. If they were going to collude it would have been to put LeBron, Oden, Shaq, or Duncan into major markets (ironically, Oden went on to suck, but he was viewed as a can't miss superstar).

    All those guys went to terrible markets with poor nationwide audiences.

  • Right so that explains the Spurs winning 4 NBA titles in the last 11 years...

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