Rip Hamilton's lack of buyout causes Bulls to lose leftovers battle

So it appears, as of now, that Mike Bibby will be bought out and end up in Miami.   Troy Murphy will be bought out and end up in Miami or Boston.   Rasual Butler will be bought out and end up in Chicago.  

My first thought was that we're just not perceived as championship contenders in the way that Boston and Miami are.   However, that thought was fleeting, and the reality sunk in, that Rip Hamilton not reaching a buyout is what really hurts the Bulls battle for scraps. 

Is Troy Murphy really going to sign here with our front court depth?    Is Mike Bibby going to sign on to be Derrick Rose's backup?  Nope.  However, we were Rip Hamilton's first choice, because we needed the help at shooting guard.

It didn't get done.

It makes you wonder if the Bulls could have pulled a Dallas/Toronto deal where we send them a 2nd round pick and 3 million dollars in order for them to help facilitate the buyout of Hamilton and in return get back some crappy player they don't want to make the trade legal.

Too late now, the trade deadline has passed.   I'm also fearful of David Stern's wrath on that type of move, though Toronto and Dallas got away with it, it's clearly salary cap circumvention, and it wouldn't surprise me if some type of penalty hit us if we tried it. 

At the end of the day, Miami and Boston will improve from the buyout player choices while, pending a miracle buyout by Hamilton today, the Bulls will just add to their depth with Butler, whom I expect won't see rotational minutes.  

Nothing the Bulls could do about that, just a bit of bad luck that the best buyout players didn't match our needs.

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  • Someone needs to stop this disturbing buyout nonsense that helps capped out teams continue to stockpile talent to plug their holes. It's an embarrasment that these players keep jumping on the heat bandwagon, further skewing the competitive balance in the league. In other words, it's just plain bullshit.
    thank you

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    if i remember correctly, other than the bison dele sighting in the 97 playoffs, the jordan bulls were always married to the scrubs they picked up in the offseason.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    I think the Bulls have to get some insurance now because of foul/injury issues or the whole season can go down the toilet in a week or two. Butler can give Deng some rest as teams start tanking or playing the younger guys as the season comes to a close. Also, if Deng gets in foul trouble, we can use him.
    If he is athletic enough, he can replace Deng on the second unit as Brewer and Korver alternate between 1st and the 2nd unit.
    I also think we should sign Troy Murphy to stop him going to Boston or Miami. But that said, whom is he replacing there? In Boston, they have Green and Miami has Bosh(he has become a stretch 4)? And he was with the Nets..I don't know if he wants to hear his coach scream again..

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    We can't just sign Troy Murphy, he'd have to want to come here, and he doesn't.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I know he'd have to want to come here but can't we offer him the most money. Although, it is not like we are claiming to block him. So, I agree it is doubtful Troy Murphy will be here.

    Butler seems to be an easy decision unless his signing will screw up something for the draft day deals.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    No one can blame RIP Hamilton for not accepting a trade to Cleveland cause I could see them wanting to keep him with all of their problems. They would make him think that they would buy him out then change their mind just to help the rest of their season. It's his right to stay in the mess in Detroit and get the rest of his money. No one wants to go to the worst team in the league. Even tho he's not playing, he will receive his full contract if the Pistons don't buy him out by tomorrow and let him decide what team he wants to play for.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I have to agree with Reese. There was no way Rip was giving up $10-15 mil to come play for the bulls. And there was no way a team is going to pay him $10-15 just to walk away. This was never going to happen. There is absolutely no way Rip makes that money back because he's going to be looking at $2-4 mil deals for whatever is left in his career.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I think you have a poor understanding of how the league works if you think Cleveland would agree to buy out Hamilton then say "haha just kidding".

    This isn't to say that Hamilton should have accepted a buyout, that's his decision. They asked him to give up 9 million dollars, of that 9 million he may have earned it all back and then some if he got a 2-3 year MLE, or he may have gotten nothing or anything in between.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    NO... Doug, I don't have a poor understanding of how the league works. This is what was reported to the media and we all know that half of the time no one can believe any thing that the media reports. Can you honestly say that you know what Cleveland's management was thinking? If it was reported that Rip would've come to the Bulls, why would he turn down a trade to Cleveland if he was going to get bought out? Obviously there was something else going on that he turned the trade down. Like you said yourself, maybe Rip didn't want to give up 9 million dollars, once he was traded to Cleveland he would be their property and if they decided not to trade him then he would have to stay with the team for the remainder of his contract. So again, it's not about me having a poor understanding of how the league works, it's about you making it seem like Rip is stopping the Bulls from getting the best buyout option player. Bottom line is there is no other good buyout option player at the shooting guard position, and also as you stated that the other players that will hit the waiver wire don't feel like the Bulls are contenders this year so they are signing with other teams. This is why I have stated before that the Bulls need to stay on top of their game this summer when it comes to making trades or even if they do decide to keep a draft pick or two, and draft what the team needs if they want to continue to contend in the improved eastern conference cause as I have said before... Miami and now the Knicks will continue to get better barring how the CBA turns out.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    This further confirms what I just commented on. Maybe I know a little more about the league then you think Doug....Chris Iott: Rip said trade deadline deal not as reported. Asked repeatedly what was different from reports. Just kept repeating himself. Twitter

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    I agree that in some ways it feels like a type of salary cap convention.

    I think you could just say all buyouts have to happen during the off-season, and the problem would go away.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    buyouts are crap. Not a huge fan of sign & trade's too

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    What was Bison Dele's name back then? Bryan Williams right?

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    yes it was, but I think it was spelled Brian. And he diasappeared in 2002 in the Pacific, never to be found

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I remembered reading about that the brother killed him and then killed himself

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I rather pick up Butler an keep Taj an Asik then pick up Lee an lose 1 of them.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Bibby's only asset these days is his 3 pt. shooting ability. He's a below average player these days. He's not really that much better than Chalmers on offense and is probably the lesser defensive player.

    Murphy to the Celts would hurt a little more but I'd still rather go up against him than Perkins in the playoffs.

    Butler doesn't help us much at all except as depth/insurance. He also has the length to defend at 2 positions which is nice. I see him getting spot minutes here and there but there's probably minimal impact. Still, since we do have to add a player -- and if you had to add a player to your roster on a contending team, you'd like him to be a veteran, you'd like him to be versatile defensively, and you'd hope he can shoot a little. Butler is at least that. I don't have a problem with Butler so much as I was hoping it'd be somebody better.

  • In reply to walrus:

    I would worry only about legit big men signing with Boston/Miami as that is our big advantage right now. I am not sure how to classify Troy Murphy on that.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I think Butler can take over Bogans for the starting spot. I much rather have Butler wide open taking a 3 then Bogans.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Based on their respective performances the last two years I wouldn't.

  • In reply to walrus:

    Ever heard of the old Led Zepplin tune/album "The Song Remains the Same?" Well that should be a familiar refrain for Chicago and in particular Bulls fans.

    If the following point of view does not resonate with you from the beginning then disregard this as a rant and stop reading. If however you agree/see the perennial pattern of Chicago sport's teams and Jerry Cheapsdorf/the Bulls in particular ending up with second rate guys then read on.

    Rasual Butler is DOG POOP. Repeat, Rasual Butler is DOG POOP. That second all caps rantspeak was just in case you missed the first one. Back to him later.

    Of course Miami getting Bibby AND Troy Murphy. It just doesn't end. Troy Murphy until this year I don't know if he's just been injured or what because this year his numbers are awful and his games played are four started and eighteen total played or something like that. So assuming he's over his injuries(since Miami and Boston covet him) all the guy has done the past three seasons is:

    shoot .455, .475., and .472 from the field. And .398, .450, and .384 on five to four attempts per game from three. Along with 11.1 and 10.2 rebounds in around 30 minutes a game. Are you f-ing kidding me??

    And Mike Bibby??

    in 30 minutes a game shooting .390, .435, and .441 from three in four to five attempts per game. Again, are you f-ing kidding me??

    These guys are both still valuable players/worthy additions to a playoff roster to be sure.

    And we just here Doug spill out in but few words, oh by the way Miami is getting both those guys. What?? What in thee f-ck??!!

    I thought Miami was already at the cap limit. I mean after the "Big Three," and Mike Miller and Haslem, and filling out the roster, and now they have a couple $Mil to sign Bibby and Murphy??!! It doesn't end. I always hear about these caps and player movement restrictions, and then it always seems like Riley/Miami go ahead and do the very thing that we "are not allowed." I swear to god too much.

    And now I'm hearing it's Murphy to Boston. Well good for them. At least soembody besides Miami/Riley knows what the f-ck they're doing.

    And as for Dog Poop(or the NBA artist formerly known as Rasual Butler) we're talking in the past three seasons:

    .390, .336., and .326 from three. Uh.. yeah.

    So while Miami and Boston fatten up on valuable playoff adds, we settle/pick up Rastool Butler. Well again what-f-ing-ever.

    But just remember now as K.C. keeps convulsively repeating corporate speak, "We pursued O.J. Mayo(and Courtney Lee) AGRESSIVELY" i.e refused them anything they really wanted in our bigs, and tried to push low firsts and Ronnie Brewer the guy they already dumped back at them. Oh, and then we'll float the rumor that Heisley(who is a douchebag) just doesn't want to deal with/aid Chicago his backyard competitor.

    One question after all this parade of sh*tspeak. Are Bulls fans really this f-ing stupid?? I include myself here by the way for putting up with this same bullshit year after year. Yes, I'm a Bulls fan guilty as charged. Next.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I hope Miami gets Bibby. He can't guard C.J. Watson, let alone Rose. How will he help Miami?

    By the way, enough with the Reinsdorf is cheap crap. It's old and not particularly accurate.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    "Reinsdorf is cheap is crap." I respect your opinions though that glib right off style is a little old if anything is.

    Doug Thonus has said again recently that Jerry Reinsdorf is invested in the White Sox passionately, and views the Bulls as simply a profit making business. Repeatedly viewed him as a cheap owner who will almost under no circumstance go over the luxury tax.

    How will Mike Bibby, a fomer major driver of a team that should have went to the NBA Finals, and currently shoots .441!!! on volume threes? How is he going to help?? Jesus.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I really don't think Reisndorf is cheap either. The Bulls are making sound basketball decisions and that is it

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    He hasn't been a good player in 5 years. He smoked his talent away a long time ago. Unless they needed a 4th three point shooter to stand around the perimeter with LBJ, they haven't changed their team in any appreciable way with Bibby.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I'm not sure what your point is.

    These guys aren't failing to sign with Chicago because we're cheap. Their offer is going to be basically the same from any team.

    They're not signing with us because we don't have minutes to offer them.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Doug I appreciate that your response was respectful, and didn't take sarcastic pot shots simply because my view on this is not in the mainstream here. Really, I'm only vehement like this when I see a huge opportunity I feel being wasted or an injustice is being done. Which doesn't happen very often. Otherwise I agree the dramatics and scathing ridicule is for clowns who are simply frustrated with their own lives. But this is one of those incredible opportunity times if your a true die hard Bulls fan.

    I just don't get it though with the whole Rudy fernandez thing then. If you'd really rather not sacrifice minutes from Bogans etc. because why he's already been playing. So we owe him to suck? I've said all along Derrick shoud play some at SG. Others NBA notables have suggested it as well. We can't open up 20 minutes a game for a .441 volume three shooter in Bibby who fills a screaming need and have Derrick play some minutes at in many ways his real/natural position. I think with his athleticism and highly rare strength he coud do passably for 20 minutes a game. Hell, Thibs had him guarding Wade not this last time but the time before that they played!!

    But yet we have room for Rudy Fernandez??

    So Bibby or Murphy are not players who can fill a screaming need for us right nwo in reliable perimeter shooters??? Bogans, Brewer, and C.J. will sandbag us in the playoffs if we don't have some counterbalance/guys who can shoot and score.

    We have room for Rudy Fernandeaz, but we can't find room for one of two extremely high quality three point shooters? Do you really think Bogans, Brewer, and Watson's inability to shoot in volume isn't going to kill us in the playoffs?? Even Taj's shooting has been awful. His field goal percentage has plummeted this year. We have no shooters other then Deng, Kyle, and Derrick two of whom are newbies. In the playoffs their own new found three point shooting wouldn't be buoyed by a volume three/accompaniment?? Am I the only one on here who thinks the Bulls with one more vitally needed shooter could go over the top, and win an NBA championship? Really?

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    RW you speak as if the Bulls didn't try to get any of these players when they likely did. These guys CHOSE to go to Boston/Miami for reasons that are beyond obvious.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    Hey Chi Guru with respect, but How do you know the Bulls tried to get Bibby or Murphy??
    I don't believe they did. Doug says it would make no sense(no minutes!), and no one reported they pursued those guys. These things almost always get leaked.

    According to Doug it woud be foolish to acquire either of them, and adjust the minutes of Bogans, Brewer, Watson etc. It's either or. Either it's foolish to play Derrick some at SG and adjust Bogans, Brewer, and Waton's minutes to acquire/play the quality three point shooter we desperately need or it's not. Either we have a gaping hole at "Shooting" guard,(ha, ha) or we do not.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    It's possible they made no effort whatsoever, but I think its just as likely they did.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    why should they want Bibby or Murphy though?

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    They'd only want Murphy to keep him from going to Miami or Boston. Otherwise there aren't any regular minutes for him in Chicago. And I am pretty confident they didn't talk to Bibby because Bibby isn't any good anymore.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Just read from Sam Smith, he said C Lee was glad that he didn't get dealt to Chicago. Although mostly he said he was glad to be somewhere he was valued, still.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    According to Mike McGraw, the Bulls could be going after Mike Bibby too. It makes me wonder if they could split that 3million between Mike Bibby and Rasual Butler.

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    They'll sign Butler for the league minimum.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I know Bibby wouldn't sign for the minimum, but then again he did give up a lot of money to get bought out, so maybe there's a chance. I still think he ends up going to the Heat though.

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    Kelenna Azubuike.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Is he even going to be able to play this year? And is he even getting bought out?

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    Bibby will sign for the minimum with whomever he signs with. The Bulls might be the only team in the league (if not there's probalby only one or two more) who can offer more than the minimum.

    However, more than the minimum is very small, because it's not much more and it's only a pro-rated amount.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    What are you talking about with Rudy Fernandez, we tried to trade for him and Portland said they wanted more than we wanted to give up.

    I, personally, also didn't feel Fernandez was worth 2 #1 picks when the Bulls offered 1 #1 and James Johnson or just a #1, I felt that was enough.

    YOu seem to keep coming back to the idea that we cant' find room for these guys, but you're failing to see the point that they don't want to come here.

    They'd rather go somewhere their role is assured than one where we can promise to try to find them room, but as soon as they play badly they get passed up by the already entrenched competition.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Why do you think Miami or Boston will give more minutes? If Murphy is a stretch 4, then Boston already has a similar one in Jeff Green. Miami has a whole bunch of 3pt shooters. The Bulls can definitely use anyone who can shoot 3s from almost any position right now.
    Also, how about having some insurance as an injury to Deng, Boozer will kill the season. Not that they will replace those guys, but can kind of hold the fort with the other players.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    The Bulls have five big men right now that they like on some level.

    The Celtics have 3 healthy big men right now that they like on some level and 2 of them (Davis/Green) are really short for PFs.

  • In reply to walrus:

    And as for Bibby not getting minutes here at .441 from three this season I think we better f-ing find him some. Tell him he will get his 25 minutes. Let Derrick play some at the two, whatever. Get this guy he's excatly what we need a savvy player who's a deadly three point bomber unlike Brewer and Watson who shoots extremely low volume threes. But of course I guarantee will get neither Murphy or Bibby which will be excused by the Chicago(not referring to Doug) dumb ass, enabling media.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I can't agree here RW. How do you tell your best player and MVP candidate to switch positions for the shell of Mike Bibby? Yeah, he can shoot but he's otherwise a below average player.

  • In reply to walrus:

    i dont like his idea but his not totally wrong. I know on the paper hinrich was a SG with Vinny but if u had noticed Hinrich used to play PG while Rose was playing SG. It wasn't so bad. It would allow derrick rose to focus on scoring while biiby will run the point and shoot 3pt. The only issue is that rose's assists will decrease(it will affect his run for MVP award)

  • In reply to deewaves:

    That was then, this is now.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    It wasn't so bad because Hinrich can actually guard people. Bibby sucks.

  • In reply to walrus:

    John great respect as always OK, but the Bulls not getting Mayo, Lee, Bibby, or Troy Murphy when they have a legit, in my view, shot at a playoff run??

    Unacceptable in my book. Bogans, Brewer, Watson none of these guys offer anything of any substance we can use in the playoffs offensively particulalry perimeter shooting. We need relaible three point shooters in the worst way. Even Deng and Rose are newbies to three point volume shooting this year, and that's what we're supposed to rely on in the playoffs??

    Yeah he can shoot, but...? But what?? The number one thing you do to win a game is put the ball in the hole. Right now the Bulls are horribly lacking in guards/guys that can do that especially from the outside.

    Honestly, I know Thibs will not go with playing Derrick some at shooting guard, but that's exactly what he is really a scoring guard who is somewhat limited by predictably trotting into half court says and awaiting double teams with the ball.

    If you think it's a mistake to play Derrick some at the two I understand, but I have to disagree. It's something they should do Mike Bibby or not. Hell, I've been wanting them to do it with C.J. at point. And Bibby is a savvy playoff guy who nearly won an NBA championship with the Kings. And he's shooting .441 on volume threes??!!

    God yes we need him in the worst way. This team could win a championship this season. The Lakers, Boston, and Miami all appear vulnerable as much as I've seen a contender crop in some time.

    We've got Thib's defensive system, all our bigs, but nobody(Brewer, Bogans, Watson, or even Taj really this season) by SHOOTING. None of these guys can shoot(in volume).

    God, to think twoo quality volume distance shooters are out there, and nobody sees the screaming need they fill to put us over the top. And instead we're going after .323 from three shooting Rasual Butler??Surely we can find Bibby 23 minutes a game. You think Bogans is going to make playoff threes when the rest of the team is struggling/games on the line?? Bibby(and Murphy can and will).

    I know Thibs and Gar/Pax will never do any of this. They won't add Bibby or Murphy eevn though it's a screaming need that could put us over the top. And Thibs would never put bogans(his pal) aside, or think otuside the box, and have Derrick play some at the two. Honestly, with his athleticism and strength I think he could be passable for 20 minutes or so a game at SG.

    You look at who other winning teams have brought in to put them over the top. And how other peoples roles have had to change, but it meant winning an NBA championship.

    I as always respect your views a lot John, and I know I'm in the vasty minority in my thinking on this but my opinion will not change.

    The Bulls right now have a shot at an NBA championship. This team struggles mightily at times offensively particularly at the guard position. When this team struggles offensively in the playoffs which at some points they will, we will need a reliable scorer and three point threat who can light it up. And that's simply not Bogans, Brewer, or Watson. Not by a longshot.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    +10

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    i agree with Road Warrior even if he'S not tottaly right.

    I know on the paper hinrich was a SG with Vinny but if u had noticed Hinrich used to play PG while Rose was playing SG. It wasn't so bad. It would allow derrick rose to focus on scoring while biiby will run the point and shoot 3pt. The only issue is that rose's assists will decrease(it will affect his run for MVP award)

  • In reply to deewaves:

    You don't tell your All-Star point guard he needs to play out of position for MIKE F'ing BIBBY to get minutes. I'm sorry, you just don't. We need outside shooting, and if Bibby was willing to come here and play back up point guard minutes he'd probably be in a Bulls uniform tomorrow.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    it isn't in order to get bibby some munites. the offense could be better because bibby is a 3pt shooter.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    It really boils down to your opinion on Bibby. You like him a whole lot more than I do. It's a difference in opinion, but I think Bibby hurts the Bulls more than he helps them. I don't even think he helps Miami. At this point though, it looks like he isn't going to get bought out anyway so it's probably a non-issue.

  • In reply to walrus:

    John, I only like Bibby if I'm dieing for a quality three point shooter/scorer. Only if I need a guard who can actually shoot/someone to shoot from the perimeter when a huge chunk of minutes got to guys who can't shoot in Bogans(not in volume), Watson(not in volume), and Brewer not period. That's why I "like" need a guy like Bibby. You guys really don't think a .441 volume shooter from three is just what we are dieing for? We can win a championship this year.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Not going to get into the Bibby argument, RW. What I like is your stressing of the point that the Bulls "CAN WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR," which I fully concur with.
    They can beat any team in the East or West in a playoff series! The Bulls are at a stage where all they need now is tune-up.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Bibby would be a gaping hole in our number one ranked defense RW. And he doesn't want to come here.

  • In reply to walrus:

    +23

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Really?

    YOu're playing Derrick Rose out of position in order to get Mike Bibby playing time? You realize, Mike Bibby's old team, also playoff bound with 2nd round aspirations just dumped him for Kirk Hinrich because they felt he was killing them right?

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Again, respectfully, but I don't give a damn what Atlanta thinks or does to be honest with you. That Hinrich move you said so yourself Doug was highly questionable that he was of any more value then Bibby. Is Atlanta an excellent defensive system driven team with a flat out superstar, but loaded with scoring duds at the guard spot? Of which just one could hugely clean up and open the lane for the best driver in the game?

    Derrick should be playing some at SG regardless in my view as I've said all along. He would be with his freaksih strength and athleticism with some other coaches. Even Thibs in a playoff like setting the first time they battled had Derrick take over guarding D-Wade. Why the hell not? The offensive boon would be huge. It would throw the predictability of Derrick standing outside the three point line with two guys walling him off out the window.

    Derrick IMo should be playing some minutes at SG regardless. I heard many people earlier in the season agreeing with this idea with C.J. playing beside him at PG.

    The fact that this would also give them the huge flexibiltiy fo being able to upgrade at EITHER guard spot shouid not be overlooked.

    Seriosuly, you don't think the contender crop with the toothless Celtics, awful looking Lakers etc. doesn't look the most vulnerable it has in years?

    This team has big minutes invested in guys who can't shoot. Brewer, Bogans, C.J. not one of them is a quality volume scorer particularly from the perimter which has become a huge part of the NBA game, and one we could just hugely use to open up the inside for the best driver in the game in Derrick Rose.

    I just can't believe you guys don't see how huge having a volume proven quality three point shooter would be right now. The Chicago Bulls could win an NBA Championship. Instead .323 shooting Rasual Butler. Unreal. But in reality very real from Gar/Pax i.e the guys who brought you three non-scoring guards in Bogans, Brewer, and C.J., and now have a chance to bring in that guy who can shoot, the guy we need to sell on coming here and yes move Derrick for some minutes at the two is exactly the ting we should do, and should already have done. Thibs wanted him guarding Wade and I bet in the playoffs it will happen aagin. But we won't pursue that quality three shooter we so desperately need in either Bibby or Murphy. God.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    RW, "But in reality very real from Gar/Pax i.e the guys who brought you three non-scoring guards in Bogans, Brewer, and C.J" Really? You mean the same Gar/Pax i.e. the guys who brought in the players and coach that have the Bulls within striking distance of the number one seed in the Eastern Conference? It seems that their moves over the past season have been pretty superb considering the "top 3" free agents all went to the same team. The same team we are 2-0 against.

    You are entitled to your opinion, but seriously.. do you not admit that you have no idea whatsoever whether or not the Bulls have talked with Bibby's agent? And do you admit that playing for Miami who is lacking any solid point guard whatsoever is without a doubt a ten times better scenario for Bibby than even your scenario of playing PG next to Rose at SG for 20 minutes a game? When Bibby can pass the Ball to Lebron James and Dwayne Wade and reap the benefits of the open looks that come with constant double teaming of two of the best 4 players in the NBA? Can you really argue against these statements? Are these not relatively convincing truths?

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Many of your points aren't really arguing against anyone.

    I'd be happy to add Mike Bibby. I'm not so in love with Mike Bibby that I'm telling my franchise player his game has to change though.

    I'm also pretty convinced that Bibby has absolutely no desire to be Derrick's backup when he an go to Miami and be the starter.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    is bibby really better than mario chalmers?

  • In reply to walrus:

    And I'd tell Murphy the same thing. We can/will find a guy who's a deadly volume shooting three and good rebounder to boot yes we will find you plenty of minutes. But Ainge and Riley who can make things happen will. And Gar/Pax who do not make things happen accept sticking with poor offensive pick-ups/options in Bogans, Brewer, and Watson. God this is so ridiculous. Mayo, Lee, Murphy, Bibby.... Watson, Brewer, Bogans yeccchhh.

  • In reply to walrus:

    Doug, I can't believe right now if you switched Ainge or Riley for Gar/Pax that they couldn't see the extreme value in Bibby and Murphy and get at least one if not both of them to come here. I absolutely do not buy that Troy Murphy or Mike Bibby would not want to come into a situation of a burgeoning team with Derrick Rose, and be assured they will be an important contributor here of which they should, and neither would deign come here. Blaming not getting the valuable adds to come here simply based on a glut of inferior personnel is just wrong. It's just wrong. These guys are both HUGELY VALUABLE just what we need in quality perimeter scorers. Yes they would get less minutes here as playoff ensemble guys ala Karl malone, Peyton etc. in the twilight side of careers, but they could be a huge catalyst in the somewhat limited minutes they did play. I just can't believe we are giving the Bulls a pass on this. With the same personnel/situation many other G.M.s could get at least one of these guys to come play with Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah, and Tom Thibodeau on a tied for second in the Eastern Conf. Bulls team.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Just look at the players. Both guys have a better chance at minutes with the other team's competing with for them.

    Why would they come here? They wouldn't.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    See my previous response to your last comment about Hinrich and Atlanta. Please.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Your response has nothing to do with the fact that Miami, a team with no solidified PG is a vastly better option for Bibby.

  • In reply to walrus:

    I do agree in principle with RW on getting more 3 point shooters whether it is a PG/PF/SG/SF type. The one issue with this team is offensive production when the main guys are shut down or having an off-day. Forget the stats, we have seen this team struggle on offense and why not get primarily some offense first guys instead of having only defense first guys especially since we have only Boozer as that only big option. I hope Reinsdorf doesn't screw around for 1 or 2 mil here just because he is not getting a big time player like LeBron or Wade.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    We've seen every team struggle on offense, it happens. If the Knicks of all teams can hold Miami to 86 points, that ought to tell you something. Offense isn't the problem.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    Don't go by one or two games or even a week. Miami can get it done on offense usually as they have a bunch of 3 pt shooters. Their problem is running a half-court offense with discipline.
    It is obvious the Bulls team needs shooting and except for the Deng shot last week, the Bulls will struggle to make a shot in the last few minutes except for Korver, Rose or Boozer(if he plays well). The point is we are not expecting Ray Allen or Reggie Miller. There are a bunch of options available who have issues but can probably give us an upgrade without sacrificing any of our assets. If we don't sign them(if those guys are interested), it is mainly because of Thibs's chemistry nonsense or Reinsdorf not wanting to spend money on a marginal upgrade/insurance. Those guys will get close to the same minutes as they would on Boston or Miami.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    NY beat miami yesterday. Melo showed as i said that he has nothing to envy james. We should take knicks seriously. that'S what i was afraid of (to see knicks with melo being another terrible opponent for us. Contrary to what you said most of u said they look better than before the trade.
    Bulls should plays very hard right now given that they prefered to stand pat.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    New York lost to Cleveland the game before Deewaves, I wouldn't get too excited.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    but look what they can do to miami when they're 100%.
    i'm not excited about NY. au contraire i'm afraid of them.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Alright I'm done. Putting it plainly our guards shooting/scoring ability sucks. Not one of Bogans, Brewer, or C.J. in any volume is a good shooter. If you guys don't feel this is just an unbelieveably huge need then so be it. I've said all along as others did earlier this year that Derrick was the unique guy for his size that could'should play some SG. And others agreed. now they're no where to be found.

    This Bulls team could win an NBA championship but for a quality volume three point shooter added to the mix. Look at the stats of a Derrick Fisher. They suck. His field goal percenate overall sucks. But he was the biggest reason/put them over the top of contnending and then winning an NBA championship. Largely because when it counts, he can f-ing shoot.

    Is Mike Bibby a valuable player to a lot of teams? Hell No. Does that make it any less possible that a quality .441(!!!!!!!!) volume three point shooter couldn't put a team struggling desperately with horribly shooting guards over the top? Think about it guys. Though it doesn't really matter because Gar/Pax clearly would not make room/assure them of minutes for either of them according to my perceptions and basically everybody here.

    And now I hear contrary to what many were saying is that Bibby is not going to get bought out? LOL too much. Thanks for that watse of an hour of my life.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    You're largely arguing points no one is disagreeing with.

    Should the Bulls want to add Bibby for the minimum? Yes.

    Should Bibby want to come here instead of Miami? No.

    YOu seem to be awfully hung up on whether the answer to the first question is yes or no while ignoring the fact that regardless of the answer, he's not going to come here.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Steve Kerr told ESPN News a couple of days ago that if the Knicks met the Bulls in the playoffs they'd be fortunate if they won a game. How's that deewaves?

  • In reply to deewaves:

    It appears that NY is buying-out Corey Brewer? Do we have any use for him?

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    Every team has no volume three shooters/scorers at shooting guard? Watson, Bogans(39% from the field and 36% from three), Brewer none of them can shoot(C.J. has no volume on threes per game). These guys are not shooters/scorers. Period. Offense hasn't been a problem much of the time scoring hasn't been dropping as has team field goal percentage as the season has moved along? You don't see a problem with Bogans, Watson, and Brewer as your scoring/shooting guards in the playoffs? Even Kyle has many dud nights and Derrick and Luol are newbies to shooting threes with both their percentages going down. With the real and psychological lift of a legit shooter in their arsenal/team, Derrick and Lu will prosper. No problem at shooting guard?? Please.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Once again, others improve whereas bulls settle. GarPax have to be active !!
    Rasual butler's numbers scare me. he isn't a good choice at all. If we can't get hamilton or murphy, let's get TJ ford. i dont know if his contract has been bought out, if so he would be a very good back-up for rose : it would improve 2nd unity's offense and allow Watson to play SG(he is a good shooter).

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Yes. This Watson, Bogans, Brewer team will struglle. that's just too much sandbagging. The offense will struggle in the playoffs without another scoring/permeiter catalyst without doubt. We've seen it happen all year.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    +1. that'S what i've been telling here with Reseel and Happy. they consider us as haters but we are right.
    It great to beat miami, dallas, LA, Spurs in regular season wins but which is important are the playoffs.
    I thought bulls are too close to be a champion to wait til the summer to get a SG. they shouldn'T have stand pat.

    right now we have to do with what we have. let's got bulls !!

  • In reply to deewaves:

    It's just that some fans are HOMER fans deewaves and they don't want to hear anything negative when it comes to the Bulls. Don't take it personal cause I don't and I'm sure Happy doesn't either.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    You're the homer if you think players are dying to come to the Bulls even when there's no playing time for them.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    HA HA... typical homer response, I'm far from being that sir,personally I would get ill if I were a homer fan. And I never have said that players are dying to join the Bulls...FYI.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    by the way who said bibby can't play SG ?? I really want that guy with us !!

  • In reply to deewaves:

    It looks like the top free agents don't want to join the Bulls deewaves. Bulls management will have to be creative this summer with their trades to stay in contention in the eastern conference cause free agents are going to Boston Miami or N.Y.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    excatly. they have to wake up. They always miss great occasions. As i said above, i thought bulls are too close to wait ! they count on summer, who told them that Afflalo, Mayo ... want to come here ? who told them that their teams won't match the others offers ? If the bulls can't improve this summer i'm afraid they will settle the next 5 years : because with rose,boozer,noah,dend all signed they won't have any flexibilty for trade or free agency. I really hope this team could beat heat, knicks or celtcis in playoffs if not we will settle.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    +2 good point John...we just need a solid SG to become available.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Man....you guys are acting like Rasual Butler is worse then Bogans. Think about this for a second....What are the Clippers trying to do? They are trying to keep their team young. They want a young team to surround Blake Griffin. Butler just doesnt fit that mold. The guy averaged 11-12ppg last year with good minutes. Bogans could never do that. Rasual Butler is 6'7, 3pt specialist, long arms,willing to play defense, an has a decent mid range faceup game. Bogans.....is a defensive player forced to make a 3s. Butler makes 3...thats what he does.

    Doug pointed out that Bogans has a better percentage or something the last 2 years compared to Butler. My take on that is...Bogans has been shooting wide open jump shots for great teams the last two years. Bulls an Spurs. Butler is on the crummy Clippers. I rather pick up Butler an not get rid of Asik or Taj then to grab Lee an lose one of those bigs. Give Butler a chance....he isnt crap like most of us on here are saying. Plus he is 2 inches taller then Bogans an has a lot better wingspan. Bulls are like 12-0 when Bogans scores 9 or more...well Butler averaged 11-12ppg last year. Give the guy a chance.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Shooting 3 pointers with Chris Paul as the PG doesn't mean it will translate well..Look at Devin Brown, Pargo.
    But that said, I agree if he can 10-12 points/game playing 15-25 mins, that should move us towards a win as evidenced from Bogans..

  • In reply to deewaves:

    IMO i dont think the Bulls get Bibby...He could start for the Heat...i doubt he comes here. I would of tried to trade Taj + picks for Mayo (they still probably wouldnt of done it lol) an then sign Murphy off the free agent list.

    Another thing....Rasual Butler has playoff experience an has started many times in his career. For the Clips, Hornets just off the top of my head...i think he even won a title with the Heat a couple years back.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    I agree. He seems to want to go to Miami -- and they don't exactly have great PGs blocking him there. Seems like the logical move for him.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Keith Bogans has playoff experience and has started many times in his career too. Doesn't mean either of them are any good.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    I really dont even think Bibby is all that good anymore to tell you the truth. I mean how much better is he then Watson? He can hit the 3 pretty well but other then that....hes just alright. He might help Miami...we will see.

    The Bulls still have a lot of options...we have all kinds of draft picks, the Bobcats pick could turn out to be really good. I think its lottery protected this year i believe? Or it Could be top 12 protected? We could always move up in the draft by shipping our picks an maybe even players off. We could look at trades this offseason. We also can look into free agency, maybe someone is willing to take a smaller check to go after a ring. Theres still plenty of options for us.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    We can't get the Bobcats pick until next year when i believe it is top 14 (lotto) protected. The believed protection scheme on the pick is as follows:

    2012: top 14 protected
    2013: top 12 protected
    2014: top 10 protected
    2015: top 8 protected
    2016: unprotected

  • In reply to deewaves:

    "Let's go bulls." When did you become a Bulls fan? You like individual players, not necessarily Bulls players, Let's hear some CARMELO TALK!

  • In reply to deewaves:

    "Let's go bulls." deewaves, when did you become a Bulls fan?
    You like individual players and they're not necessarily Bulls players. How about LET'S GO CARMELO?

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Looks like Bibby's joining the Heat and according to Chris Broussard, Miami's the front runner for Murphy too.

    So not only does Miami grab the 3 top free agents in the offseason, they create 2 huge vacuums at PG and in their front court that is sucking in the best available buyouts.

    The Bulls, meanwhile, created an equally large hole at SG and probably could have had any SG out there, but it looks like the best SG option is going to be Rasual Butler. Yay.

    Everything seems to be breaking Miami's way this year, from the FAs to their favorable schedule, to buyouts becoming available at their positions of need.

    The basketball gods must be crazy.

  • In reply to walrus:

    THIS is an example of what's to come with free agents wanting to join Miami and N.Y. I wonder where that will leave the Bulls as far as attracting free agents. Bulls better have some interesting trades in mind for the near future.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    That's true too a point, Reese1. If Rip Hamilton had taken a buyout, he'd be the best guy available and he would have almost surely signed with the Bulls over the Heat.

    Part of it is luck. The guys that are becoming available happen to be at the positions where the Heat suck -- so it's natural they'd want to go there because minutes will be available to them.

    By the same token, I'd imagine any good SG will be eyeing the Bulls this summer for the opportunity to both start and play for a title contender.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Reese you da man, +10 Exactly.....If you have stars....the players will come. I thought that would be common sense.

    Yes we have use for Corey Brewer...i would be going after him too. He is also 6'7, defensive minded guard, decent offensive game, real long, good defensive instincts, and hes Noahs old teammate. Im sure he will put in a word for him if he does get bought out. If the Bulls can fill that SG spot with a big long defensive minded guard that can get you 10+ppg...i like how were looking.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Thanks csharp, and you're right, it is common sense that some of the top buyout players want to try to get that ring and I guess they feel like the Bulls aren't there yet. Corey Brewer would be a good pickup if bought out, question is do the Bulls want to disrupt their precious chemistry, which I think is very lame if someone thinks that bringing in one or two players will cause a problem. If It's that easy to disrupt this team, the chemistry must not be that strong.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Butler is not exactly the upgrade at shooting guard the Bulls are seeking, since Kyle Korver is a better shooter and Ronnie Brewer a superior defender. The only thing where he can help us is, with him we have someone who can starts instead of Bogans.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    EXACTLY deewaves, Bogans has had some OK games as far as scoring, but Butler would help as far as his size and he does know how to get to the basket with his size. He's definitely not a long term fix but he would be a big help as far as giving the Bulls a bigger lineup whether he starts or plays with the second unit.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    moveover even if bogans has improve his shooting during the last month. He still an average shooter who won't keep it under pressure(playoffs). bogans need to be open to knock it down.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    K.C. Johnson is tweeting that the Bulls have NO interest in Corey Brewer and that the "ever popular" Rasual Butler is the front runner to be in Chicago. I say that in jest of course...

  • In reply to BullsBacker2333:

    yeah ratha butler

  • In reply to BullsBacker2333:

    Reese +2 again....Kieth Bogans will not even be on this team in a couple years. Maybe not even next year...who cares about him.

    Keith Bogans best year was his 2nd year in the NBA...he averaged 9.6ppg...he has never once averaged more then that in his career. He has started 329 games in his career.

    Rasual Butler has had 3 season of 10+ppg and has started 249 games in his career. So yes, Rasual is a upgrade over Bogans.

  • In reply to BullsBacker2333:

    Why wouldnt we look at Corey Brewer?????

  • In reply to BullsBacker2333:

    Ya if people are thinking Butler is gonna be on this team for a while....thats not the case. He will probably just be here for our playoff push this year. Hes just a short term guy that can play Bogans minutes for the rest of the season.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    How long does it take players to clear waivers? I know the last day for players to be on rosters to be eligible for the playoffs is March 1st...I think?

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    I believe the actual rule is that players have to be waived by March 1st in order to be eligible for the playoffs with another team. The team that picks them up can still sign them after March 1st...but I'm not sure what the deadline is there...March 8th, maybe?

  • In reply to walrus:

    The Heat's beat writer just posted this on twitter, so I guess this clears it up:

    "Just to be clear on playoff eligibility: Players must be waived by 11:59 p.m. Tuesday to be eligible for another team's playoff roster."

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    Clears the first part up...but it doesn't say anything about when those players can be signed. If a guy, for example, gets waived at 11:58 pm how much time does he get to sign with another team?

  • In reply to walrus:

    There is no limit. They could sign him the day before the playoffs.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    That's good. I hope then that the Bulls wait out the deadline and see if they can get anything better than Butler. Doubtful, but other than competition from other teams, the Bulls can afford to wait on Butler.

  • In reply to walrus:

    Yeah, I rather see if Corey Brewer gets bought out. He hasn't played w/ NY since he's been traded there. And I don't think I saw him on the Knicks bench yesterday vs. the Heat.

  • In reply to walrus:

    Well the buyouts have to happen today. The signing can be whenever.

    He won't clear waivers until we know everyone who is available.

  • In reply to walrus:

    The only rule is you have to play for the team you're on at March 1st. If you're not on a team you can sign a minute before game 7 of the finals and get yourself a ring.

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