Carmelo, shockingly, not traded to the Bulls

The deal is now done, per lots of places, but one such place is yahoo sports:

The Knicks offered to send Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Wilson Chandler and the Knicks' 2014 first-round draft pick to Denver. The Knicks would also trade Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry's expiring contract to the Minnesota Timberwolves, who would send Corey Brewer to the Nuggets. The Knicks would receive Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams and Renaldo Balkman.

The Nuggets requested on Saturday that the Knicks also include center Timofey Mozgov in their trade package. Denver could then reroute some of the pieces in the trade - including Mozgov - to the New Jersey Nets for draft picks.

So the Knicks caved.

They gave up Mozgov, Felton, Chandler, Randolph, and Gallinari for Melo, Billups, Shelden Williams, and Balkman.    Did they improve their team?   Yes they did.   I'll take Felton over Billups despite the high powered name at this point, and Williams/Balkman probably aren't worth as much as anyone else in the trade package, but Melo is still worth a bunch of role players.

You have to give up to Denver though.   That's an extraordinary haul for Melo given that they basically had no leverage whatsoever.    They still come out behind because they lose a superstar, but they'll save 20 million dollars in cash due to avoiding a luxury tax bill and they'll stock the roster with decent young players and good trade assets.

They're still a threat to make the playoffs after this trade if George Karl can get things together.

As for the Knicks, they're looking a bit more dangerous as a #6 seed that we'll have to face than they did a couple days ago.   I still think the Bulls beat them fairly handily, but their team is still improved considerably.  

For those thinking Chris Paul or Deron Williams ends up in New York in another year, don't count on it.   The Knicks won't have remotely enough room under the cap to make an offer, and the earliest draft pick they can give up in a trade is a 2016 1st.   They don't have any contracts to match salary, and they don't have any talent to offer in a S&T either. 

Simply put, not going to happen.   The Knicks landed two stars, but I'd be surprised if they topped out at more than 4th in the East with this group over the next five years given the limits they'll be under from here on out.  However, it was just as unlikely that they'd top out that high without making this trade either.

As for any thoughts on the Bulls getting Anthony, well, I think when you look at the output of this trade that Denver got, you can see why the Bulls simply weren't going to be in the picture.   The Bulls didn't have remotely enough to get a deal done, and even if they were willing to include Noah, I think New York's offer trumped ours because of the 20 million bucks that Denver saved which it wouldn't with our deal.

Great to finally have this saga over.   It will be interesting to see what other shoes fall now.

Does JR Smith get bought out?   Possible to trade for Afflalo?   Who knows.   Maybe the Bulls still get in on the action somehow.

Comments

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  • Do you think this will make management push for a shooting guard rental?

  • In reply to boogernights:

    I think this move is irrelevant for Chicago except that teams that were holding up waiting for this trade because they might have been involved, will now be open to other trades.

    I still see the Bulls standing pat though.

  • In reply to boogernights:

    Chicago blew it. This was the year to build that championship team but they blew it. Now we all have to wait another 5 years for it to happen...thats if Rose doesn't leave for LA. Fuck the Bulls, weak azz team aint winning nothing with Deng Bogans and lazy azz Boozer in the starting lineup.

  • In reply to calle3:

    WOW!!! tell us how you really feel!

  • In reply to calle3:

    Rose, Noah, Boozer, Deng > Knicks

    We don't need a super star at SG. We just need a legit starter. I don't want the ball out of Rose's hands. Knicks are better than they were yesterday, but I still prefer our roster.

    Bulls will add something. Too much buzz around the league for them not to be. The flood gates are opened now. Any SG that was available will now be up for sale. I'm really hoping for Afflalo. Long shot, but he fits perfectly.

  • In reply to kbar17:

    Rose, Noah, Boozer, Deng = Melo, Amare, Billups, Fields

    We might lose to them in the 1st round

  • In reply to calle3:

    Um you are forgetting Korver, Brewer, Asik, Taj, Bogans, CJ Watson > 0 bench.

  • In reply to kbar17:

    are u stupid ? Rose, Noah, Boozer, Deng = billups, turiaf, stoodemire, Melo. And Landy fields > brewer !

  • In reply to deewaves:

    It's hard to see how you get that math to work, Deewaves; although critical thinking was never your strong suit. The Bulls would beat this Knicks team 4-1 or 4-2 in the playoffs. Nobody on their team can play defense, and Stoudemire would matchup terribly with the Bulls interior. The only problem would be Carmelo, and he can't play defense, either. Your consistent underrating of Deng makes you look really bad when you analyze matchups.

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    agree. to simplify the math:

    Defense > no defense

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Deewaves you are light years beyond stupid.

  • In reply to calle3:

    Is that you Mr. Happy? ;)

  • In reply to calle3:

    wow. have a beer and get a good night's sleep. it will be ok. in the morning, shower, get a cup of coffee and google "no depth + no cap space + no draft picks + no defense". then look at the eastern conference standings. you'll feel better. i like melo, but not at the cost of a depleted team and 21$ million/yr in a more restrictive CBA. go bulls.

  • In reply to calle3:

    glad you're not running the team

    you could be Chicago's version of Isiah Thomas

  • In reply to boogernights:

    bulls management is dumb, they're doing anything !!

  • In reply to deewaves:

    they're doing nothing

  • In reply to deewaves:

    #3 Bulls vs. #6 Knicks...I wouldn't look forward to that matchup.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    MrHappy vs. Reality....I wouldn't look forward to that matchup.

    You should be banned for doing your Sylvia Brown impressions too many times.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    i'd enjoy that one a lot. think the bulls and maybe ny might move up a spot or too, though.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    It's OK, if the Bulls stay #3 they'll be playing the 76ers anyway. ;)

  • I really don't see them as any better. All they have are three starters and no bench and no center besides Turiaf. I think we match up much better against them considering most of their three point threats are now gone.

  • In reply to rnohria310:

    I wonder is Billups will want to play for NYK or asked to be brought out.

  • In reply to ralston83:

    Better the Knicks than the Heat. I'm fine with him in NY.

  • In reply to ralston83:

    Is Mr. Happy writing your headlines ;)

  • In reply to claytonabigsby:

    If so, it would say Melo traded to Bulls and there'd be a story about how he got on the wrong plane and landed in NY.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    haha! That would be the blog post of the year.

  • In reply to ralston83:

    Denver hosed NY. They are going to go out and upgrade using the same pieces that they got from NY. Mozgov is going to be the only untouchable. I wonder if Billups will ask to be bought out or traded. I think the Bulls are in a good place not having to blow up their team to get Melo. Just think, Nuggets got 4 starters a first and 2 second round picks. Way too much, but much better tahn they would have gotten from NJ.

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    There's a rumor that Mozgov is already going to NY for a pick.

    I can't imagine the Knicks buying out Billups, they desperately need him now. Plus, his situation there is no worse than it was in Denver.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Doug, do you mean NJ. Why would the Knicks trade him to denver, then re-trade for him the same day? I heard that denver was looking to get picks from NJ.

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    Meant NJ yes.

  • In reply to ralston83:

    Can't imagine Billups asking to be bought out, nor can I imagine NY acknowledging that request even if he did.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Well when you think of the tight cap space, Im not sure how Chauncey fits into their plans beyond this year. Also, did Corey Brewer get sent to Denver? Some are saying he went to the Knicks.

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    The Knicks will have no cap space, and they need him for this year IMO. A lot will depend on the new CBA of course, but I doubt they could save a considerable amount of money on his deal next season even if they tried to buy him out.

  • In reply to rnohria310:

    Wow ... who saw that coming?
    What a surprise ;-)

  • In reply to rnohria310:

    Time for the Bulls to go after that shooting guard that is needed now not next year.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    i agree. Lets go get affallo for 2 draft picks.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    Hope so but I doubt Denver let him go, we shall see.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    He's too good at his position for the money he's being paid. Don't see him being moved

  • In reply to Waldock:

    he's on an expiring. I believe it's RFA.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    The problem is Denver now has a ton of mediocre assets, and they already want to flip some for draft picks. 2 more draft picks from the Bulls probably don't have all that much value given where they are.

    The Nuggets need to find impact players, and our picks aren't going to be high enough to provide them.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    I'm with you ... we need more scoring now. New York kicked our rear ends this season ... now they got even tougher.

  • In reply to TommyChamp:

    +1

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Maybe the Knicks are in the mood to dump Fields.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Why would they be?

  • In reply to rnohria310:

    Four starters and Turiaf, pretty sure that Bulls fans would take Landry Fields as our starter at 2 guard in a Chicago minute.

  • In reply to rnohria310:

    u're just crazy

  • One thing that wasn't mentioned was, did Anthony sign the ext? And if he does, does that mean that the Knicks have 40 milliion tied up between two players? The Knicks in my mind just screwed themselves. What do you think Doug?

  • In reply to ralston83:

    I'm sure he signed the extension. As for whether the Knicks screwed themselves? Depends on the new CBA, but my guess is there is still no hard cap an the Knicks will have some flexibility.

    I think the Knicks got better, not worlds better, but better.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    The Knicks and Heat better hope that the MLE doesn't get eliminated.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Anyone else think it would be fun to see Miami end up having to face NY in the first round? #3 vs. #6

    Stoudamire, Melo, and Billups vs. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh.
    Weak benches and not much quality size inside beyond the starting PF's.

    On the other hand, as Doug has pointed out before, if we end up in the #3 spot, our first round matchup just got a little harder.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    I doubt the Knicks trio have the killer instinct to compete this year with the gutting of their team. They are good and will make the playoffs...but I doubt if they face an elite team like Miami, they can do well in a series against them. LeBron, Wade were good defensive players and both Amare/Melo are not. It will take them a year or two to play good defense or you never know they might be like Boozer.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I have a hard time seeing a D'antoni coached team ever playing defense.

    Amare and Melo will be a tough scoring combination to stop, but I don't see much real defense being played by them ever.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Sometimes it's hard for me to be objective cause I'm a Bulls fan.
    So to analyze this trade:
    Are the Knicks now more likely to beat Miami, Boston, and Atlanta?

  • In reply to Waldock:

    Atlanta? Maybe. Miami and Boston? Definitely not as presently constructed.

  • In reply to zentastic:

    Bulls? Yes

  • In reply to Waldock:

    Boston ... no. Maybe in a year or two, but by that time, Boston will be a much different team.

    Atlanta ... yes.

    Miami ... maybe a little bit. I don't think Miami is as good of a defensive team as some people might think.

    NY is still going to have to decide where to go with their team.
    They lost quite a bit of size with this trade. Who plays PF or C ... whichever one Amare's not playing? And who backs them up?

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Statistically Miami is at the top of the league defensively along with the Bulls and Celtics, and I don't think that they have even tried that hard yet.

  • In reply to Waldock:

    Can't really see them being better than even Atlanta. With a Melo/Amare core, no cap space and no real assets left to make another move they're relying on a miracle now.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    That miracle could be draft picks... wait they traded those too. They better pray the CBA allows for flexibility or they are screwed.

  • In reply to kbar17:

    Everything the owners want to do would limit that flexibility, so they're probably in not so great shape there.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Well, they kept Fields ... so they have

    PG: Billups
    SG: Fields
    SF: Melo
    PF: Amare
    C: ??

    Not much big man depth ... maybe Turiaf.
    They still have their backup PG Toney Douglas ... not that great.
    And now they have about five backup Small Forwards.
    Looks like they'll be playing a lot of small ball, which probably fits D'antoni's style, but isn't great for the Playoffs in my opinion.

  • In reply to Waldock:

    The Knicks are definitely better, but they're still a tier below the top teams in the East and aren't going to beat them in a series.

  • In reply to ralston83:

    Finally. No more fan speculation about a Melo to Chicago trade, when it was never going to happen anyway. He never wanted to play here. Period.

    Are the Knicks better after this trade? Maybe. But they sure gave up a lot and screwed themselves royally in the future. They're now a 2-trick pony, and I actually think the Bulls match up with them better. Bulls have the depth to beat them, and the Knicks lost a big chunk of their 3-point shooting, which is what gave them problems earlier this season.

    Sam Smith wrote today that Melo won't bring anyone a championship. And he's right. Knicks might have another superstar name but they won't win titles.

  • Let's hope the Bulls' management was right, because the EAST just got tougher.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Hold on, you told me a Melo to the Bulls trade was imminent?

  • In reply to jpbaker81:

    Don't expect him to own up that, he spend a month implying he had inside sources saying Dwyane Wade to the Bulls was imminent and then denied the whole thing despite it being on about 50 different blog posts afterwards.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    The East just got a whole lot tougher??? Keep taking Happy pills, because this year it just got easier. LOL

  • In reply to thegreatlie:

    Logic,

    CLUELESS Prisoner might be a better nickname.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    The think that really puzzles me about this wrt Melo is he knew he had the power to nix the NJ bid by saying no to an extention a long time ago but by not doing so and allowing NY to be drawn into an auction it has cost NY alot more than it should have. And who loses? Melo of course as the team he is now on had to give up more to get him so he has in effect depleted the squad of his new team by his action! Go figure!!

  • In reply to Jersey66:

    Ultimately, Melo wanted the money though, and Denver benefited tremendously from having the new CBA this summer maximizing the potential money he could lose by waiting.

    Melo having a stronger supporting cast wasn't worth potentially losing 30 million to 40 million dollars to him.

    I think star players typically feel you can get role players really easily anyway. In many cases, this has proven true (Boston and Miami both managed this), but New York is starting with the barest cubbard in that regard that I've seen, and they're upside isn't higher than other teams who can sign ring chasers, so I think they'll struggle.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Doug,

    Don't be CLUELESS like your followers.

    I explained the other day that a Melo trade to the Bulls probably wasn't coming after hearing what Paxson had to say during his radio interview a few days back.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    ROFL

    You spent a month telling us how we were all clueless for thinking a Melo trade wasn't coming even though we all said that we couldn't / wouldn't match NYs offer.

    Looks like everyone, except you was correct.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    That's funny stuff right there.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Let's do it mathematically :

    Melo >> Deng

    Stoodemire > Boozer, this is equivalent to :
    Melo+Stoodemire >>> Boozer+Deng

    Noah > Turiaf this is equivalent to :
    Melo+Stoodemire+turiaf >> Boozer+Deng+Noah

    Rose >> Billups this is equivalent to :
    Melo+Stoodemire+turiaf+billups = Boozer+Deng+Noah+Rose

    landy fiels > Brewer this is equivalent to :
    Melo+Stoodemire+turiaf+billups+Fiels > Boozer+Deng+Noah+Rose+Brewer

    Chicago Defense(Thibs) > NY Defense(dAntoni) this is equivalent to :

    NYK = Chicago bulls

    I know it doesn't seems obvious but Trust me guys, beating NY is everyting but easy !! we have a real enemy. We need to replace Brewer by Smith or affalo to make sure we're better than them!!

  • In reply to deewaves:

    We are already better than NY. They are 2 games over .500 record for the season. The bulls are 22 games over .500 for the season. Gutting your team to bring in 2 good players does not make you 20 games better. Also Bulls have been injured all year. This Bulls team at full strength will win easily in the playoffs. Now, if we could get back to real problems (Celtics, Miami, Orlando) instead of imagined (Knicks).

  • In reply to deewaves:

    last time I checked they still only allow 1 ball in a game, and this applies to Miami too, who have struggled mightily against good teams.

    You don't win games on paper. Anyone that has been following sports beyond this season knows countless examples of this. This is why your argument is flawed.

  • In reply to jpbaker81:

    Jon,

    I never use the word imminent. I did think the Bulls would trade for Melo. That said, I explained a few days back that the Bulls' management probably wouldn't do it, because they are in love with the Deng/Gibson and the team chemistry.

    Don't be CLUELESS. Get your FACTS right.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Denver would never take Deng + Gibson vs what they got from New York, it's not even close.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Wade = Fail. Carmelo = Fail. Will Dwight Howard be the new focus for Mr. Happy?

  • In reply to kbar17:

    Third time may be the lucky charm ;) Hey, even the boy who cried wolf eventually got it right!

  • In reply to claytonabigsby:

    Yea and then he was fucked.

  • In reply to kbar17:

    I think it might be Kevin Love as he keeps putting up monster stats...and we should trade Boozer for Love..(God knows why Minnesota will take Boozer)but Happy will try to sell that.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    KAHHHNNNNN

  • In reply to kbar17:

    Actually, I think the Bulls potentially are in a better spot to trade for Howard then they were for Carmelo.

    Noah for Carmelo just didn't make any sense. Noah for Howard, on the other hand, can make some sense for both teams.

    Not saying I think it will happen. Just that between Carmelo or Howard, I would have put higher odds on Howard eventually being a Bull than Carmelo (and I'm talking 1% vs. .5%) given the way Noah factors into it.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    The Knicks will be a better team Corey Brewer also goes to N.Y.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Brewer goes to the Nuggets.....

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    Hope you're right but I thought i heard the Knicks which is correct they just stated on the 4 lettered network.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Brewer id going to the knicks and will come off of the bench.

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    They will definitely be a good team, defense will be a priority against them.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    The Bulls will probably try to get one of Wilson Chandler or Affalo as both are RFA...Denver probably knows it can't keep them both at the end of the season. Will two first round picks from the Bulls work for either of them or they drive a hard bargain for Taj or Asik?

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I'm not sure that this will work for the Bulls. It's apparent that Denver wants to clean up. They want players. and I'm not so sure the Bulls want to waeken themselves to try and win it all this year. they are not sure how boozer and Noah will play over the long haul. If they are great together, then maybe a deal gets done. But remember both are injury prone. What happens if one of them gets hurt again?

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    Yep, we have been waiting for soo long for a Big guy and now we trade away our depth. Hate to think what would happen in a playoff scenario if Taj,Noah and Boozer get into foul trouble playing against the likes of Shaq or Dwight Howard.

  • In reply to claytonabigsby:

    It is nothing to do with Noah/Boozer. We need another quality guard...and these two are RFA and Denver will probably not resign them and if they want to rebuild...they want picks and not players. But, they might hold out for Taj or Asik + picks looking at how they did the negotiations for Melo..

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Chandler isn't a SG. The Nuggets probably don't need Smith and Afflalo, but they're clearly not keeping Smith long term.

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    I'm so glad this is over with. Melo was NEVER coming here. I read yesterday that Carmelo crossed the Bulls off his list cause he felt insulted by the Bulls not wanting to give up Noah for him. Maybe the Bulls get a steal at the deadline or maybe Rip Hamilton or Tayshaun Prince get bought out. Either way, this move does not make me think that the Knicks are "scary". I wasn't worried about MIAs "Big 3" and I definitely don't feel any different about NY. So bring them on! They will SEE RED come playoff time!

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    Boozer and Noah haven't played that many games together and didn't look that good when they did. Bulls mat try to do something next year if that duo don't work.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Boozer has only played 9 games with Noah. Noah was hurt for all 9 of those games. It'll be interesting to see what a healthy roster looks like. It would be even better to see what a good SG would look like.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Anybody else wonder when Minnesota is going to collect on any of the "favors" they've done for other teams over the years?

  • In reply to Reese1:

    That duo didn't look to good is because they weren't used to playing with other just yet. No training camp or pre-season work together.

  • In reply to ralston83:

    I agree as well but Boozer need to do something about his defense, I know Noah is there but Boozer needs to be held accountable for his lapses.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    After their two losses in Boozer's first two games ever playing with the team (no preseason, no regular season, and very limited practice time), the Bulls were undefeated with Noah and Boozer including wins over the Lakers and Thunder.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Um are you serious? Did you not see the OKC game?

  • In reply to Reese1:

    NY Times is reporting the Knicks will look to shop Brewer before the trade deadline.

  • finally!

  • Come on, Afflalo.

    New York is basically now a poor man's Miami, with less defense and less role players. Billups will retire soon and they still won't have room to sign D-Will or CP3.

    The Bulls should be right to take them out in round one.

  • In reply to JonoHimself:

    Afflalo would be the perfect scenario. Too perfect. I have a feeling we won't even get JR Smith. The Bulls seem to be up to something.... They'll do something none of us predicted. How many of us predicted the Hinrich deal or the trade with the Kings a few years back?

  • In reply to JonoHimself:

    just a guess, but they could pull a Miami and strip the team down to just 2 players(Anthony and Amare) by the summer of 2012 which even with $40 million between them could still leave the Knicks enough cap space to sign Williams or Paul.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    There's also the cap holds for all the roster spots. Really depends on what happens with the cap, they might have near max space so long as the third guy is willing to take a pay cut I guess.

    But that assumes they get rid of everyone and only have minimum guys to fill out the roster. Then they'd be the Heat except with worse stars and worse role players.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    40 million + 4.5 million in cap holds only leaves them 11 million for another player even if they could pull it off.

    These guys would have 18+ million max contracts under the present system. Under the new system, they might have lower max deals, but the cap also likely recedes.

  • You might wanna check those numbers on NYK's cap room. Less than $4m is guaranteed for Chauncey next year.

  • In reply to LittleAlex:

    Amare and Carmelo will both be due 20 million on the 2012/2013 cap. It doesn't matter who else is on the roster.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I wouldn't expect Utah or Nawlins to lose Williams or Paul for nothing before the end of the 2011-12 season.

  • In reply to LittleAlex:

    What do the KNicks have left to trade? Someone else will pay more than Billups expiring deal, a 2016 first rounder, and Landry Fields to get Paul or Williams even in a rental situation.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    It'd most likely be a 3-way for picks. Fields is immensely overvalued across the league. I wouldn't underrate that. If the Knicks can maneuver acquiring a pick or two with the intention of trading it/them, there's really no telling what a desperate team can be forced into. With Isiah clearly having a seat at Dolan's table, would clearing the roster and filling with veteran minimums and NDBL guys not be reasonable enough to remain a significant possibility?

    I'm not saying it's smart. I'm saying it's Jimmy Dolan. Donnie Walsh was doing a hell of a job, probably the best Knicks asset, and he's being pushed away. Stupidity like this knows no bounds.

  • In reply to LittleAlex:

    The Knicks can't trade their own pick until 2016, and fields isn't a big enough asset to get them a valuable pick. Some other team will easily trump an offer of a 2016 first, Landry Fields and an expiring for Howard, Paul, or Deron. The Mavericks would come up with something better even if they could only keep him for a year.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Like I said, I wouldn't underrate the possibility of them clearing the roster before 2012 with the intention filling the roster with minimums. It's Jimmy Dolan.

  • In reply to LittleAlex:

    Damn I kinda wish we could go after OJ Mayo now.

  • In reply to Vedo:

    Same here, the Bulls will have to do something to bring more scoring on the team. Hopefully we can acquire someone like Mayo, J.R, Afflalo, or at very least Anthony Parker.To bring a little more scoring into town.

  • In reply to Vedo:

    "The Knicks landed two stars, but I'd be surprised if they topped out at more than 4th in the East with this group over the next five years given the limits they'll be under from here on out".
    Doug are u kiding us ?? this NY team even without their three pt shooter and old billups can bother the bulls at anytime. Melo+Stood+billups almost worths rose+booz+deng. U said that they dont have good role players and bench, neither do the bulls. At leat they have a decent sg ( fields).
    The bulls have now one more enemy. I'm not sure we can beat them easily given the playoffs' experience of Billups, stood and melo !

  • In reply to deewaves:

    After gutting their depth, you still say their benches are equivalent? Our bench and starting lineup practices the ancient art of 'defense'. This discipline is practiced by throwing your hands in the air and limiting your matchup from getting to the hoop. It is found in locations where championships are won (LA, BOS). Sidenote: This phenomenon known as 'defense' is seldom found in areas that Mike D'antoni is known to frequent.

  • I think it is a great trade for the Knicks...They got two pretty good size all-stars for their positions. Fields is an adequate/good starter as is Billups as a starter for now. They need a good center and 3 more rotation players. I think PG is one position which is easier to fill in the future because of the availability of quality PGs(top tier or middle tier).
    It wouldn't surprise me if NY can beat out Atlanta in the seedings after a couple of weeks of chemistry issues..

  • Not... Who starts for them? They just gave up their team sans Amar'e plus Eddy Curry, Anthony Randolph plus 3 draft picks for 1 and a 1/2 stars. (Melo and Chauncey). That's 6 active players and 3 draft picks... Are they crazy? And now you think they are a 50 win team? Ain't no way....Chaucey is on his last legs, Sheldom Williams is a buster,and Renaldo Balkman is a victory cigar.. Are you kidding me?

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    Agreed w/ Al Penn

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    Initially, Melo going to the Knicks wasn't that scary since the Knicks decimated their bench to get him. But that was BEFORE the news that Corey Brewer is going to the Knicks, not to the Nuggets as initially reported. Now, I'm actually worried.

  • In reply to boogernights:

    corey Brewer is nothing to worry over

  • In reply to boogernights:

    Keith Bogans may actually be a better basketball player than Corey Brewer. And I'm not being sarcastic when I say that. Brewer is an end of bench guy on a good team.

  • I have to disagree. They still play no D and they lost the majority of their 3-point shooters

  • Going to have to disagree a little here as well.

    NY "may" have the opportunity to get even better in the future, but I think as things stand now, they are no better than they were before.
    And without the picks, it's a lot harder to see their road to improvement in the near future.

  • Brewer went to Denver not NYK.

    I think the Knicks are better, but not worlds better. Definitely not a perennial 50 win team.

  • The Knicks didn't have interior defense before, they don't have it now. Offense was never a problem with them

  • To the extent the Knicks have improved it's because Billups is better than Felton. D'Antoni's SSOL offense requires a point guard who can shoot and Billups fits the bill far more than Felton does now he's fallen back to earth after a hot start. That said Billups is old enough that he's not going to make anyone a perennial anything.

    The actual Melo part of the deal the Knicks got absolutely killed on and have given up so much that he's not better than what they gave up as a whole.

  • Word is that Dolan pushed this trade with the, ahem, "assistance" of Isaiah, which makes me laugh, because he's screwing the Knicks even when he's not officially part of the organization anymore.

    This trade was made even over the objections of the basketball people, namely D'Antoni and Walsh, who didn't want to give up that much talent.

    You're absolutely right about the Knicks having no D or depth. Good luck with that. In the playoff they're going to have major problems.

  • In reply to zentastic:

    I know right? I actually want them in the 1st round now

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    So you guys think that the Knicks are no a below .500 team. I think not.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    They will probably go .500 the rest of the season and finish a few games over, yea.

  • They've also given up cap space and all the assets they have. There's nowhere to go from here, what you see is what you get. Do you honestly think the Knicks can ever be elite with Turiaf as their center? They'll never be even an average defensive team and they've got absolutely no depth.

  • Say they pick up Billups option next year, they have 50 million tied up in three players. As they're roster stands, their cap is at 65 million. So what you're looking at now is the same Knicks team you'll see for years

  • In reply to ralston83:

    Pretty sure that only Amare, Anthony, Fields and Toney will be Knicks by the time the 2012-13 season starts.

  • Agree completely. They'll win games but no championships.

  • The Suns were generally average defensively because they had guys like Marion who was a pretty good defender and rebounder. The Knicks don't have those types of players, and that's a major reason they'll never even be as good as the Suns (the other reason obviously being they don't have Nash).

  • Seeing as how Melo wanted his cake and to eat it too, he's screwed himself. It was no secret that he wanted to go to NYK, he could have signed in the off season and saved the Knicks some money and picks. His trade to the Knicks caused them picks and money.

  • No, doing nothing and losing him to the Nets was still worth it because they'd still have had the cap space to chase Paul/Williams/Howard, all of whom are better than Melo.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    If the new CBA had a franchise tag, which seems likely to me, they'd be screwed though.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    EXACTLY

  • It just seems like they've "facilitated" several trades over the years ... and helped out a number of teams.
    The Garnett trade to Boston ...
    I just wonder if any of these teams they've helped out are ever going to return the favor.

  • Wait it out and go for Paul/Williams/Howard. Or if you absolutely have to get Melo, sign him as a free agent and flip those assets for a center.

    Go read knickerblogger and see how the hardcore Knick fans feel about this deal, they know they got absolutely hosed and this is worse than standing pat. How often does a "superstar" get traded to a team and their fans hate the deal?

  • Williams and Paul are much better than Melo, especially in D'Antoni's offense that relies so much on the point guard. Although I agree Howard would be the big catch.

    There's no guarantees that they'll get them, but now they're not even going to try. So they've given up all hope of a championship for what? A couple more won games before the same first round exit they were going to have anyway?

    It's a terrible trade for the Knicks. I am absolutely overjoyed they made it.

  • Try to play Randolph next to Love as the defender they need? Running Beasley/Love is horrific defensively, and at least Randolph has some sort of offensive upside compared to Darko.

  • D. Rose will never get out of the 1st round playing for Chicago lol

  • In reply to calle3:

    ????? Are you high?

  • In reply to calle3:

    why don't you go "love" some other team Chumpy

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    im officially a miami heat fan now

  • In reply to calle3:

    Have fun with that.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    we'll have fun kicking the bulls ass every year

  • In reply to calle3:

    Grow some balls or GTFO

  • In reply to calle3:

    Wow, that's one hell of a formula up there deewaves. Are you a chemist or something? Or did you just stay at a holiday inn express last night? :-)

    I'll agree that it makes NYK tougher but there is no way they are equal or better than the Bulls right now. Weird to see so many Bulls fans panicking this much considering D'Antoni didnt even want the deal (allegedly). My first reaction was that it was good that NYK is so depleted now. That doesnt mean we can take the Knicks lightly...hell they beat us twice already. However, I dont think the Knicks leap-frogged anyone in the standings. It will be interesting to watch them play.

  • In reply to bullswin60606:

    The Knicks are not depleted...thats what people don't understand. Melo>>>>Gallinari/Chandler and replacing Felton with Billups, a veteran/Finals MVP, is an upgrade. They didn't play Anthony Randolph. NY still has Turiaf, Shawne Williams, Walker, Tony Douglas, Azubuike, and Fields. Don't know why Bulls fans are so confident that we'll beat the Knicks, when we're 0-2 against them without Melo lol. They still have plenty of shooters and upgraded two positions.

  • In reply to calle3:

    If the rumors are true, than D'Antoni & the coaching staff didn't even want to make this deal, and he is an offensive savant, so that isn't even taking into account thier still piss poor defense. Its just about offense. They have lost some of their 3 pt shooting, including their best in Gallinari, and Melo & Amare are both volume scorers and not good passers. We have seen many teams like this in professional sports, teams that look good on paper, a lot of high priced additions, but they never work.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    and all I have to say to Carmelo is be careful what you wish for. Have fun dealing with that media monster for the next 5-6 years.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I believe there piss poor defense is enough for them to beat the Bulls in the 1st round especially if we don't upgrade our SG. Bulls haven't shown they can beat them....

  • In reply to calle3:

    Miami hasn't beaten Boston in 3 games. Doesn't mean they won't do well against Boston or won't be a fight. You catch teams sometimes at a bad time in the regular season but teams are more prepared in the playoffs... I agree though they need to upgrade at SG but probably not this season.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    that's what will happens, they won't beat celtics in playoffs

  • In reply to calle3:

    We'll have to see. I'm putting my money on the Bulls.

  • In reply to calle3:

    +1000

  • In reply to calle3:

    you're 0-1 so far.

  • In reply to calle3:

    where can i wager against this?

  • He put up terrific per minute numbers last year, the only area he was poor in was shooting percentage, which is something most young players improve on. I don't think there's any doubt he has great upside, but there is a lot of reason to question whether he can reach it if he hasn't been showing enough in practice to get on the court for the Knicks.

  • Hardly. The Knicks were an awful team for years, it's not like they blew up something worth keeping. Even if they missed LeBron the process of shedding bloated contracts and gaining salary flexibility improved the team.

  • Denver caved and the Knicks did what they had to since they had absolutely no shot of getting Anthony as a free agent because he never would have become one.

    Anthony was not opting out of $84 million over the next 4 years no matter where he ended up. There was no chance in hell that he would give up that money.

    So in the end he would have signed with whomever had his rights on or before July 1st.

    Denver blinked by not calling his bluff and giving him what he wanted a ticket to NY. I guess they thought that Melo was not worth the trouble to keep around.

  • Denver had all the leverage(they controlled the $84 million that Melo drooled after like it was crack) that is why the Knicks had to give up so much.

    If they had any balls they would have held on to him or traded him to NJ.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    They wanted to trade him to NJ, NJ weren't taking him without an extension so that was off the table. I agree they could have held on to him, but with New York giving that kind of offer I think they did the right thing in taking it.

  • Maybe they gave up more than they had to, maybe not.

    2 years from now there's a good chance that everyone the Knicks gave up is a below MLE level player.

  • Good point. I don't know why you guys are debating Randolph:-) He is somebody who is still living on his potential/draft status before he becomes a filler in trades like Renaldo Balkman, Shelden Williams..The newer the draftee is there is hope for somehow finding his game for a few years...Look at all the guys teams are hoping their future on...it is mostly players taken after 2007/2008 even though they know in their heart they suck.

  • +1

  • Its not like they can just decide "I think I'm going over the cap with this signing" They would have to trade for a player in order to keep him with a contract over the cap, and as doug has said, the Knicks have no trade pieces, and they have no leverage because the player in question can't say "I'll sign there if you don't trade me" because the Knicks can't sign them outright.

  • Dude, it doesn't matter if Melo is better than all those guys. Its the sum of the parts. Can Melo and Chauncey produce what those three starters did? No.

  • You are vastly overvaluing Carmelo Anthony as a basketball player if you think he is better than CP3 or DWill.

  • Um because they know more about the franchise/players than you or any national radio/tv syndicate will ever know.

  • Not really sure I agree.

    I think Melo and Gallinari are both low effort guys, not sure the swap matters much defensively. Chandler and Brewer are both solid defenders in their own way, the difference is Chandler played big minutes for the Knicks and Brewer seems unlikely to (guards who shoot 38% and can't hit threes don't play much for D'Antoni). Felton was a good defender before coming to the Knicks, I think playing big minutes in such an important offensive role meant he had to slack defensively. Given Billups is older I can't really imagine he'll be going flat out defensively on the Knicks either.

  • If that's true name one trade where a team received a guy regarded as a superstar and the fans were unhappy. I can't think of one.

  • I disagree completely. They're only replaceable if you have lottery picks or cap space. You generally can't sign starter quality players for the MLE or count on finding them late in the draft.

  • I did say that he couldn't get minutes for the Knicks means something, but you have to consider when he did get minutes D'Antoni had him standing out at the three point line which is simply not his game. So when he couldn't hit shots he hit the bench, since D'Antoni is the anti Thibs, if you don't bring it offensively you don't play.

    I think the chances of him hitting his ceiling are really low, but his ceiling is still all-star caliber. Per minute numbers don't mean everything, but when you have a guy who puts up similar per minute numbers as a 20 year old to Shawn Kemp and has that sort of athleticism you have to think there's at least some upside there.

    The Wolves got him for Corey Brewer (who is garbage and they weren't going to keep anyway) and taking on Curry's corpse (fully paid for by the Knicks $3 million in cash). They essentially paid nothing for him, so why shouldn't they take a flyer on the guy?

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