Freak out Bulls nation, Bulls fall to Nets

The Bulls plane didn't get in until 4 am.   I realized the team might be in trouble in the morning when Boozer tweeted around 4:30 that he was finally getting to go to sleep.   The fact that they had an early game the next day on a back to back and a late plane wasn't a good sign.

The Bulls looked tired, especially Luol Deng who managed to play 43 minutes, and simply didn't muster much energy against the Nets.   Boozer complained about being benched in the 4th quarter, but when Kris Humphries makes you his bitch because you're too lazy to walk 10 feet from the hoop and contest a shot you deserve to be benched in the 4th quarter.

In the end, the Bulls didn't take care of the glass, they didn't knock down their free throws, they didn't get back on defense, and they lost the game on a broken play by Sasha Vujacic who previously looked as if he was playing 6th man for the Bulls.  

They had a shot at the end, but Rose never got a quality look off as the defender didn't buy his fake to the hoop and stayed with him, forcing Rose to shoot a highly contested three that never came close. 

Derrick Rose didn't play so well as the box score

21 points on 13 shots sounds pretty awesome, granted he used up another three possessions getting to the free throw line, but he was sloppy with the ball all night as well, and when you add up the five turnovers, he now had 21 points on 21 possessions with just one assist. 

He also played a mere 33 minutes of game time due to how well the bench played without him in the fourth quarter to close out the game.   Rose played excellently to close out the game, as the Bulls had a chance to win due to his three point play followed by a three pointer in consecutive possessions, but still suffered through a fairly subpar game by his standards.

Carlos Boozer's defense must really be getting to Thibs

Part of it was the matchups, the Bulls had a ton of success going small and increasing the tempo.   Something they've really struggled to do without Joakim Noah in the lineup, but a large part of why Boozer sat was the fact that he absolutely sucked the life out of the team.

He didn't bother to box out on defense, he shot poorly from the field on offense, and his slow saunter back on defense rather than getting back to protect the hoop was one of the Bulls biggest problems on the night.

It's not like Boozer was worthless, he still had five assists and scored 12 points on 10 shots, but he turned a role player into a stud on the other end of the court.

Luol Deng continues to play like the marathon man

At one point in the fourth, they showed Deng who looked like he was about to have an out of shape attack on the court.   This isn't to say Luol is out of shape, but seriously why can you not find some time to give him a rest?     Derrick Rose was on the bench for 15 minutes, but you can only find 5 minutes of rest for Deng?

Deng had a solid night generating offense and scored the ball well, but he also continued his season long stretch of crappy free throw shooting knocking down just 3 of 6 from the line.    The Bulls as a team knocked down 20-30, and 10 missed free throws really hurts in a two point loss.

What more is there to say about how bad Keith Bogans is?

When a guy is about to get an open dunk Keith Bogans is there with the hustle to make sure he catchs up to him and touch fouls him on the arm to give him a three point play rather than just an easy two.

It takes a lot of work to chase down a guy like that and make sure he gets the extra free point, but Bogans has managed to pull it off three times in the past two games.

We have to live with it.   The starting thing is what makes it feel worse than it is.   Coming off the bench for 15 minutes and playing mind numbingly bad wouldn't be as noticeable, and if you're going to play Bogans for 15 minutes doing it with the starters isn't a bad idea.

I still hate it.

Kurt Thomas's lack of speed caught up with us

Kurt did another fine job on Brook Lopez, but he much like Boozer, his lack of footspeed and inability to get back in transition hurt the Bulls.    The Bulls simply allowed too many baskets on fast breaks and early offense because our big men couldn't get down the floor.

I won't harp on Kurt too much though, again, did a great job on Brook Lopez, and there's little more you can ask of the guy.   Relative to expectations he's still playing at more than double to triple mine.

C.J. Watson had another great game

Much like last game, looking at the box score wouldn't do justice to how well Watson played.   The team looks so much more energetic when he's out there.   The primary reason is likely that he's playing with the reserve bigs, and Boozer/Thomas are slowing down the offense so much.

However, Watson's done a nice job of ramping up the tempo, getting everyone involved and finding some of his own offense.     He calmly knocked down both free throws at the end of the game to bring the Bulls into a tie with 11 seconds left as well.  If we had won the game, he'd have been a contender to get the game ball as the Bulls rallied when he came in.

Ronnie Brewer brings the energy

Brewer doesn't necessarily fill up the points column, but there's never many zeros in his box score as he plays so actively.   He generates steals, blocks, moves the ball well, cuts to the hoop.  

The team is feeding off of his energy right now, and he's really helping that bench unit.    His minutes were up to 30 in this game which is closer to where they belong, now if we can only get Korver's up to 30 and Bogans down to zero we'll be all set.
Kyle Korver missed early came on a bit late

He missed his first three shots, but knocked down two of four three pointers in the fourth quarter.   I guess it's something, but Korver needs to shoot better.  You can tell he's disgusted in his own shooting whenever he misses a shot his head dips.   

I've said it for awhile, the Bulls need to work Korver more with Rose where he gets quality looks rather than trying to make him Rip Hamilton, when he had those looks in this game he shot much better.

Taj Gibson barely plays after coming out of his slump last game

The move somewhat surprised me, especially when New Jersey went small.   Gibson could have given us a big in a fast lineup if we had him run up and down the court quickly, but the Bulls opted not to go that route. 

For what it's worth, he wasn't having a particularly good game in the minutes he did play, but given that we're willing to ride Bogans through 15-18 minutes of tortuous, stab your eyes out, kicked in the groin hell each night, it's hard to make the case that he's benched that quickly for poor play.

Final thoughts

The Bulls played a fairly atrocious game out there, the Nets tried as hard as they could to give it to the Bulls, but it just didn't happen.    Still, there were many things conspiring against the team for them to lose this game, and they still had a chance to win on the final shot.

I've been saying for awhile that you can't win them all, even against bad teams, and that the Bulls were going to drop one of these games soon, well this was the game.

They simply need to get the defense back and make sure not to look past Philly due to Saturday's game against Boston.

Watching the team recently, you can see how much the lack of Joakim Noah hurts the team.  His absence stops the first team from breaking and makes it more difficult for them to get back on defense.  Kurt Thomas has filled in admirably, but the team is missing an entire dimension to it's offense and defense right now.

It becomes so clear when the second team comes in and all of a sudden the tempo is much faster, and it feels like Bulls basketball.   The Bulls will have to continue to grind out games, win ugly, and do their best until Noah gets back.   All things considered, the team is 7-3 without Noah, and that's not so bad.


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  • First off, game could've been won hadn't Deng choked on two free throws to tie the game cause I believe it was 34 seconds left on the clock so the Bulls would've gotten the ball back if they would've stopped Jersey after those free throws. And now I understand why Utah fans were bitter with Boozer, enough said on that subject and I can see that he will become a problem player in a couple years as he gets older. Overall this loss was a bad one and losing to a team like N J. is not a good look no matter how much people try and sugar coat it.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    "Game could've been won hadn't" Rose turned the ball over five times or Korver doesn't chuck 30-footers or Boozer/Taj decide to move their feet on defense or the team doesn't brick ten FTs.

    If we're gonna fixate on Deng's impact in the game -- and I admit there was more bad than good -- why not fixate on his defense being a large part in the Bulls getting back in the game?

  • In reply to LittleAlex:

    Its not about being fixiated on one Thing cause overall the team as a whole lost the game but it is what it is, Deng missed TWO free throws that would've tied the game and they had a chance to get the ball back. I didn't say he didn't play good Defense but he did miss those 2 free throws that were very critical IMO that could've had a different outcome of the game.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    woulda coulda shoulda...NJ missed 2 free throws right before Deng did....the bulls coulda woulda made more of the 10 misses (20 of 30 made). Rather than focus on Deng.....

  • In reply to adkhanz:

    Exactly... that's why "I said the team lost the game as a whole" but if Deng make those two free throws the outcome of the game WOULD'VE been different no matter how much you or anybody else choose to look at it.

  • In reply to adkhanz:

    Bulls have been playing poorly since Jo went down, mostly winning anyway on sheer talent. But we've all seen the team playing poorly for a few weeks now, winning ugly, finally losing ugly a couple of times too. Lots needs to happen: Boozer re-engaged on defense, Thibs more flexible and creative with his rotations (no matter what he does with Bogans), better foul shooting... Perhaps Thibs hasn't wanted to make larger changes while winning; if so, let's hope this gives him an excuse!

    I think the whole thing comes down to Make Your Shots, especially Early (since several of our studs seem worn down Late in games). Korver has to get back in form, that may take some help from Thibs changing plays or rotations. If Lu and Jo are going to play long minutes, you'd better plan for their efficiency to drop off sharply near the end of games (that was a problem before Jo got injured) and really ride them early. And he's got to continue to develop Asik and CJ into reliable subs. (I liked a suggestion someone made here a few weeks ago, that CJ could come on as SG for a couple of minutes before shifting to PG when Derrick gets to sit down, getting CJ more minutes and a chance to feel the flow of the game and warm up his shot.)

    Always interesting conversations here, I gotta get to this page earlier in the morning and join in! Let's hope we turn it around in Philly, I'd really like to be in shape to give Boston a good game. No Jo, no KG, now let's rumble!

  • In reply to petert23:

    Yeah I think the Philly game will be a tough one as well since the Bulls blew them out in Chicago last week.

  • In reply to petert23:

    Yeah I think the Philly game will be a tough one as well since the Bulls blew them out in Chicago last week.

  • It's games like this that playing Bogans really hurts the Bulls. They played horribly and were still good enough to win it at the end. Unfortunately when you do that luck isn't always on your side and you lose. The Bulls would have won this if Bogans played less. He got 3 fouls in a matter of 15 seconds in the third quarter which put us in a huge whole.

    Brewer is awesome and rarely makes a mistake. I love the few possessions every game when Brewer gets the ball and the other team thinks its Bogans or Deng and just leaves him, and he goes in and dunks it. That happens atleast twice every game!

    The Bulls shouldn't upgrade at SG instead they should get another big body. I've been saying this for a year but Deandre Jordan from the Clippers would be a great addition off the bench, especially with Noah out. I don't know how available he is and this is his third year so next year he might be due for a new contract, but I think that would be a great move to help out against the Celtics and Lakers big bodies.

    When Rose and Boozer are struggling this team still shuts down. Deng continues to be the worst 17 and 8 guy I have ever seen. I am not a big PER guy but when Doug mentioned Deng's PER I almost threw up. 14? Isn't the avg in the NBA 15? Deng is the worst good player of all time, and he lsot the Bulls this game. All he needed was one ft and he was right next to Vujacic watching him put back the game winner. Deng sucks.

  • In reply to Hendu0520:

    I couldnt agree more with that last paragraph. lol he is probably the worst good player i have ever seen lol

  • And let me rephrase what I said about Boozer, I meant to say I can see him being a problem player if the Bulls as a whole does not continue to improve and have the ultimate success as a team, and we all know what every team is trying to accomplish.

  • And let me rephrase what I said about Boozer, I meant to say I can see him being a problem player if the Bulls as a whole does not continue to improve and have the ultimate success as a team, and we all know what every team is trying to accomplish.

  • I'm really not digging the coach at the moment. He needs to stop doing dumb things, and then stop acting like a baby when he's questioned about them.

  • Ah, what the was a crummy game and the sky is falling and the Bulls will never win again...let's just take care of Philly and play tough against Boston, then we'll all feel better.

  • Didn't get to watch the game and I guess I'm happy I didn't!
    Brewer is awesome and CJ with him really brings up the tempo!
    We either need to play JJ or KK and give Deng some rest before he goes down injured and we don't have him at all!
    We need a young big right now, even a big body would do who has some foot speed.
    Taj is our only big right now that can guard the other teams big who shots from outside.

  • In reply to smiley:

    we still have korver, brewer, and taj. all of whom can give deng a rest.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    DeAndre Jordan a couple years ago was sitting in the 2nd the Bulls sat on their hands an did nothing. 2nd round picks are easily attainable, still dont know why we didnt go after him.

  • In reply to smiley:

    maybe we should loose a couple games so, thibs stops playing bogans.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    lol +2.....Honestly, i think James Johnson should get some play. Hes athletic, can create, play some D. Maybe with some playing time he can improve his confidence.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    Not ragging too much on my fellow Brit Luol here but if there was ever evidence that contracts should have a large element of performance related pay in them than Luol is the argument. I'm really happy that Luol is now the 3rd option as he will never be a stud. I blame the Bulls for paying him the stupid money - would anyone here turn down such a contract with few strings attached? Which brings me on to the need for PRP (performance-related-pay). If the new CBA is going to benefit the game and not just the owners then PRP is a must.

    Lets just look at Luol's PER (I know its not the be all and end all of stats but have to use some reference): in 06-07 18.7; 07-08 17.0; (signs contract); 08-09 14.7; 09-10 16.1; and (so far) 10-11 14.7. His FT% is obviously down (career low), but so is his rebounding steals blocks (all career lows) and assists. So his salary has increased but his stats are down. Other than professional pride what incentive is there for him to work on all these areas of decline?

    Where I work a large % of my salary is bonus. To get the bonus I want I have to put in extra hours at the office, attend courses, pass exams and appraisals etc if I want to be rewarded financially. Why should NBA players be any difference.

    New CBA - so long as it has more of an element of PRP in player contracts I say bring it on. It can only make the game better.

  • In reply to Jersey66:

    his contract isn't that bad

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    It really isn't when you look at similar contracts around the league. Darko and Rashard Lewis are making nearly double Deng's salary.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    In other news, now with the second teammate altercation in the last couple of months(Mayo had to be spereated from Rudy Gay in a shouting match on the bench/during a game) the specualtion from "league sources" is that O.J. Mayo is now available for the right price. Even though owner Michael Heisley says he "loves" the guy i.e he'll want back among other things your first born son in return.

    Look, two incidents show he obviously has some issues. But Lionel Hollins(who from what I've seen doesn't look like a bad coach), but he's not necessarily an established leader/charisma guy who can take command/help redirect a guy with perosnal issues the way Phil, Riley, Pop etc. might.

    If most of you guys/Bulls fans are not interested after these personal breakdowns in Mayo I understand. But the guy shot .458 last year on 18ppg with .380 from threes on solid volume/more then three attempts per game. He doesn't get to the line a lot, but he's shown quality starter talent for one season at least, and has the high pedigree/top draft pick of so many long term sucessful players in the league.

    Ronnie and C.J. IMO have shown they are only valuable if they get a lot of time on the court 25-30 minutes a game. So if we pursued Mayo, one or both would have to go probably C.J. if we had a choice. I seriously doubt we'd have what it takes to get O.J Mayo anyway. And I want to keep Taj. Also, Kevin Love is really grumbling about his erratic playing time and wanting to "win now"/says he could "see"(hopes) himself being traded at any time. It'll be interesting though to see if a Miami, Dallas(supposed contender), or a team with a high pick or young proven talent will pursue these guys particularly Mayo.

  • The Bulls better find a way to shoot free throws better. They have to be one of the worst in the NBA. That'll be a showstopper come the playoffs.

  • In reply to willrice51:


  • In reply to willrice51:


  • In reply to willrice51:

    The Nets missed their free throws too, as often happens in games. Most games aren't won or lost by missing or making a couple of extra free throws. Shooting better from the line would likely only make a very small difference to the team.

  • 1st QT = Bulls get outscored 14-18 With Bogans.

    He leaves, Bulls fight their way back, outscore Nets 33-28.

    3rd QT = Bulls get outscored 9-19 WITH Bogans

    Once he leaves, Bulls scratch and claw their way back, outscoring Nets 38-31.

  • Keith Bogans drives me insane. Please stop the madness Thibs!!!

  • In reply to thegreatlie:

    Play James Johnson at the 2 if you have too lol Bogans isnt doing anything out there. Its like playing 4 on 5.

  • In reply to thegreatlie:

    I dunno, man. Five fouls in 14 minutes is quite the accomplishment.

  • It's awfully painful to lose to the nets, but we had to lose one game. though we've won lately, we're playing subpar basketball.
    Thib is showing a stubborness, I can't understand. He keeps playing Bogans 15-18 mn a game, he keeps asking KK to go through screens. He want to replicate exactly what worked in Boston. If he keeps doing that he'll fail because KK is not Ray Allen. A good coach adapts his system to the player he has, sooner he understand that, better the team will be

  • Bulls need to make sure they don't turn what should have been at worst a 3-1 week into a 1-3 week. I'm starting to warm to the limited minutes Rose-Watson backcourt. But Thibs could put Brewer or Korver in there with them, too. Deng's missed free throws late are a perfect example of what happens when he keeps getting 40+ minutes of burn a night.

  • 1. I think Deng's poor FT shooting was directly related to his legs being tired. Lot of players don't shoot well obviously when tired.
    It is high time Thibs uses some common sense and gives Deng some rest or not play him more than 30-33 mins. His play declines as the minutes go up.
    2. The one good thing about this loss is it was close. Even if they were playing back-to-back, late flight, missing Noah, playing away and NJ being rested....they almost won. It bodes well on how they will compete and we need not worry about this team.
    3. I didn't like Rose's last play. He took too much time for the defense to set in and then became indecisive. I am surprised Thibs didn't have a set play for him or the team with 5 sec remaining away from home. That is not good preparation on part of Thibs and Rose.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Thibs burned all and every timeout, that's why he couldn't drive a play

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Classic Fan Overreaction: Take One!

    (I know my responses have been long lately. If you think they are, then please just disregard this post).

    I remember Paul Pierce(who for my money can be sort of a punk like belting Bosh in the gut simply because he could get away with it, but Pierce is also a fighter and a winner with an engaging personality you see from a sucessful athlete/person). I saw him commenting on Tom Thibodeau(after the Bulls hired him), "I'll see Thibs at the morning shoot around, and the first thing he'll say is, 'Now Paul, you need to do this, this and this defensively,' and I will say, 'Good morning Thibs, how are you this morning,' in a semi mocking, deprecating voice as if to say show some personality once in a while you film obsessed, techno wonk.

    Now taking something from that as an insight into someone's personality might be looking for something that's not there. But I remember it struck me as an unusual anecdote. Can Thibs really command respect as "thee" leader of his players(while respecting his defensive acumen) when they regard him as somewhat of an social eccentric/curiousity?

    It just strikes me as to why somebody has been such a well regarded basketball/defensive mind/guru, but yet has in over twenty-five years of coaching never been offered a head coaching gig until the "seasoned" age of 52. Phil, Riley, Adelman, Wilkens, Fratello, Fitch, K.C. Jones, Tomjanovich, Chuck Daley all were head coaches on some level college, CBA etc. by their late 30's to early 40's. Yet Thibs who beagn his coaching career in 1981(Radiers of the Lost Ark released, Iran Hostages freed), and has spent a whopping one year as a head coach in that time.

    You look at any sucessful head coach in the NBA, and head coaching it's in their history, and in their blood. Yet Thibs has bascially spent his entire career as an assistant.

    It just makes you wonder with all his simple cliches, "we weren't a low turnover team tonight, we didn't play with energy tonight, we didn't play well defensively," what particulalry insightful things in regards to player development, and building an offensive identity i.e anything outside of the defensive realm he has to offer?

    Sure he knows some offensive sets, and some good adjustments system wise at times to other team's defenses, but what player roles/evolvement are we really seeing? Does he really show any signs of a charismatic leader who develops players like a Phil, Riley, Chuck, Pop etc. etc.?

    Honestly my answer to these questions from what I've seen so far would have to be "No". An emphatic no. But of course he's only been in this position for a few months. Honestly, for so long being the protege, and recommended by his long time mentor Jeff Van Gundy you have to wonder at the similarity of guys who were conservative defensive minded people who really never showed a dynmaic offensive grasp or identity.

    Now have I concluded that Thibs cant cut it as a head coach? No. But any guy who plays his second best big(after Joakim), and that is Taj Gibson only 11 minutes after he puts up 16 points and 14 rebounds(mostly in one half), and had a tremendous opening run this season before injuries, is not making the correct offensive moves IMO. Similarly to wasting 13-15 minutes a game on many nights with an obviously inferior player/drain in Keith Bogans to actually offensively viable players in Ronnie brewer and C.J. Watson. And really with all their steals history and ability to get into transition, and yet never trying C.J. and Ronnie together until now? And acquiring players, but yet abandoning their historic minutes/roles for a lessor historically weak player like Keith Bogans?

    Look, as a person, you see Thibs being befriended/embraced by winners like Yao, Paul Pierce etc., and you know as a person he's a good man comitted to his craft. But such an idiosynchratic, film room detainee with no personal life to speak of as a Leader/head coach? I just don't know. Time will tell. But he for his 30 years involved in coaching the game is as yet unproven as The man/head coach to sucessfully lead his team.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Bogans play is so moronic that I am convinced that he is the missing link.

    Vince Carter used to be half man half amazing, Bogans is half man half ape.

    He looks, moves, acts and thinks like Cromagnon man or maybe even Neanderthal man. I simply cannot stand the sight of him.

    What the fuck is wrong with Del Thibideau, you really have to question his suitability to be a head coach when he is clearly hurting his team to the tune of 5 to 10 points at the start of every game and the start of every second half. Somebody, please kick him in the balls to get him out of his stupor.

    As I suspected, my enjoyment of watching the Bulls has decreased by more than 50% since Noah went out. It is getting to the point that I watch it in fast forward, and only stop when something interesting appears to have happened. Not sure that happened at any point last night.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    The end of the game showed that the Bulls still have a lot to learn.

    Thibs using all his timeouts in a close game with a minute to go - Rookie mistakes

    DRose being a little confused as to what he should do with 5 secs left and full court ahead of him - again Rookie mistake. Top players always have a goto move irrespective of the need for a timeout (Pierce's drive to the elbow for pullup jumper comes to mind and is near on unstoppable - whats DRose's move?)

    Little awareness of Luol's minutes - Rookie coaching. I include the assistants here as well, they should have been on at Thibs to give him a blow.

    Continual poor FT shooting - again poor coaching to allow it to continue. We have seen the improvement in DRose's 3Pt shot this year so there is no excuse why the coaching staff do not insist on more work on FT shooting.

    And the bit I completely think is rookie coaching is when Thibs said he went small to match up with the Nets. WTF (excuse my french) but aren't the Bulls meant to be the better team and should therefore dictate style of play and not react to the lesser teams.

    Rant over. If Thibs is the student of the game we all believe him to be then he will be looking at tape of HIS performance last night and learning from it. Thats why we have the phrase "rookie mistakes", and as fans we sometimes have to accept the growing pains necessary to improve - thats so long as the rookies do listen and are prepared to improve.

    The 76ers game is the biggest test for Thibs yet. The result is less important to me than to see that Thibs is learning from his mistakes.

  • In reply to Jersey66:

    Thibadope has shown that he is unwilling or unable to learn and adjust to the most boneheaded decisions. Starting Bogans is the most obvious example but there are others. He is burning Luol Deng and when questioned he says "he was playing effectively". What the hell is that supposed to mean?! Just because someone is playing "effectively" doesn't mean they never get a break! That's a good way to make them much less effective. Benching Boozer when we are desperate to score points? WTF!? Why does he need a 'learning loss' to see that is purely and bizarrely stupid. I could go on and on but I'm at work and I'm getting worked up. Damn.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    cuz knuckle-head Thibs burned all this Time outs, as usual...

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Deng has shot better from the line after 0-1 days rest than after 2+. I think he missed the free throws because his free throw shooting has been poor all year, especially on the road where all his percentages suck.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Losses like this are why we say the team is a 55 win team not an 82 win team. You don't win every game you should, just have to move on and try to win the next one.

    Still the play the Nets won it on was horrible, leaving so much time on the clock with such a risky pass, that deflection could so easily have landed with the Bulls and resulted in a fast break bucket at the other end.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    u're really dumb. excuse me but it's tottaly stupid what u're sayin. Brewer and Watson defend and attack better than bogans. It stops there !!! all the other things are bullshits.

  • Not playing Boozer for the whole 4th quarter isnt dumb? Especailly when they are double teaming D Rose at the top of the key an who do we have out there? Kurt Thomas an Omer Asik? Come on Doug....At least Boozer gets respect from the refs an can create his own shot. Were paying this guy all this money an coach Thibs sits him the entire 4th quarter. I dont care if he was having a bad play your best players. Not Omer Asik an Kurt Thomas when your searching for points.

  • I cant really blame Rose for that....kid was just trying to make a play. We shouldnt even be in that situation last night. Nets play Stephen Graham an Kris Humphries big minutes!!!!!!! They shouldnt even have been close to us. But then again, we sat Boozer the entire 4th quarter.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    The problem I have is they should have a set play or two(if they do not have a time out) on what to do in such a situation(trailing on the road and 5 sec left). That shows a lack of preparation on their part.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    set plays work when you have an alternative to Rose Getting doubled, such as Boozer, whom was staying warm on the bench...

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Where does this "Bogans only plays 15 minutes" notion come from? He's averaging a little more than 18 minutes per game. Korver and Brewer are both at the 22 mark, and Watson is a little less than 14.

    As for the statement about people not complaining if he didn't start, but played the same number of minutes, I have to strongly disagree. Last year, people everywhere were all over Jannero Pargo. Well, Pargo last year performed BETTER than what Bogans has so far this year.

    I'll wait a moment for that to sink in.....

    Starting Bogans = telling your opponents they have a shot to hang with you. Good teams beat bad teams regularly, which the Bulls are doing. Great teams demolish bad teams from the get go more often than not. Bulls have not done that, and won't as long as they are playing (at best) 4-on-5 basketball.

  • In reply to saigman:

    yes, the true crime is that Bogans is getting more minutes than Bogans, and the two are related.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    sorry, meant CJ rather than the 2nd Bogans

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Teams lose games to bad teams so I dont want to over react. Im not going to all of a sudden hate on Boozer becasue he has a bad game or anything other knee-jerk reactions that us fired up fans tend to have. However there are two big problems that need to be rectified and its nothing new.

    1.) Bogans has no business playing at all let alone starting. Enough rationalization of why Thibs might be doing it...he's killing the team by even playing the guy.

    2.) The Bulls has a team have got to shoot a better FT% period.

    Both issues above are magnified in a close game like lat night. The Bulls knock down there free throws at a 75-76% clip they win. Bogans isnt in the game to foul people and instead Ronnie Brewer makes some good defensive plays we maybe win the game. Thibs can easily fix teh Bogans issue. Its up to the team on a while to start knocking down FTs and soon.

  • I get that this is 1 game out of the whole Thibs was sticking with his bench (which was helping) but when the games gets as close as it is....its time to put your studs back in. Already ESPN an Chicago Sports Radio are jumping all over the benching of Boozer. This is just going to start friction in the locker room an thats the last thing we need right now. I wonder what Gar an Pax thought about benching 16mil dollar man Boozer last night. I thought we were done benching our best players when Del Negro left???? Im a big fan of Thibs, but stuff like this needs to stop.

  • Thoughtful points M.W. I started my post with "Classic Fan Overreaction: Take One," meaning somewhat playing devil's advocate. But I do think no matter who they are until they prove it over time there have to be some doubts/concerns. And honestly the paralell with Pops to me he doesn't completely wash.

    Gregg Popovich began head coaching in 1979, about the same time Thibs began his lifelong career as an assistant(other then one year of head coaching). Pops coached a lower tier team, similar to Phil coaching a Puerto Rican team before coaching in the CBA, and Pops coached for more then eight years/nearly a decade. Plus Pops was a very talented/successful college player the way so many sucessful head coaches were.

    Popovich makes the point that almost every sucessful head coach you turn to began by their late 30's/early 40's, and did it for years before they joined the NBA team they excelled with. While Thihb's over thirty years never displayed this natural acumen. It's just a fact, and doesn't preclude him from being a good coach, but it is a major question for myself.

    He sure as heck should not be playing his second best big in Taj only 11 minutes after putting up 16 and 14 the night before. I don't care what the matchups are you still give Joakim and Taj your second best big their minutes. Period. That's just a big mistake in my book. But I like Tibs off the court(too much ranting and harping/standing on it), and I think there's a chance he can be a sucess, but I have some serious concerns(as every unproven new leader you do/should IMO).

  • Boozer may not be the worst defensive player, but he's in the bottom third. The question is can he play better defense, but rests on D so that he has the energy for the ESPN statistics of scoring and rebounding. Or is just that he is not a good defensive player that never learn it.
    Same with playing uptempo. He wants the team to play at his pace, instead of adjusting to what is best for Rose and the team in general.
    Perhaps with Noah running and defending, Boozers weaknesses are less damaging.

  • I know right? LOL. Still, Thibs is lucky he has those NBA Finals credentials in his back pocket, otherwise he could be in danger of losing some players a bit.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    or fortunate, not very lucky as he earned his way to Boston & was a large part of their success

  • See my reply to your comments on my post above.

    I like Tom(off the court), but he is unproven as of yet, and definitely is not immune to being criticized. Defensively/as an assitant he's a genius, but as a head coach he' still unproven. When there are this many people questioning him, don't you think there might be some validity to their critiques? And it doesn't mean he won't be a success in the long run/end up leading the Bulls to ECF's or possibly even a title.

  • Agreed, the adage that you don't trade size is vital for this Bulls team.

  • I agree with a lot of your points. But I maintain that interviews/charm aside, most coaches who are destined to be so do it on some level for many years before they get to the NBA. Of course Riley, Bird, Isiah, and there are others who did not. I'm just not sure I see Thibs as developing player roles and chemistry the way so many top coaches have(many who did it for a long time to perfect their craft/be ready for prime time).

    I agree Thibs has done a good job in many respects. I'd take him over Vinny any day of the week. But offensively I just disagree with several player minutes decisions and pairings big time.

  • I can't blame Thibs for starting Bogans.
    1. We can agree that Bogans is a better defender than Korver and with his shooting woes(Korver's), he is not much of a difference maker on offense either.
    2. Brewer is also bad on 3-pt shooting. Plus his energy is useful for the 2nd team with Korver not able to drive into the paint.
    3. JJ is the other choice and we all know that Thibs doesn't trust him. He might think playing him will decrease his trading value further down(if that can happen;-)))
    So, in all Bogans is the best choice for starting at SG until the Bulls come up with a trade.
    One more thing, there are not many good SGs in the whole Eastern Conference. The more time goes by, it might mean that the Bulls are waiting on Denver to bite on Melo. They don't want to give up any assets for a 2nd/3rd tier SGs such as Anthony Parker, Nick Young etc..

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Look at the stat lines of Bogans, Korver and Brewer. There is no logical justification for either Bogans starting or getting 18 minutes per game.

    Oh, and his defense has been gawd-awful. Korver is bad, too, but you can tell that he is at least making an attempt. Bogans is not only sleep-walking out there, as Doug mentioned, he's often turning easy 2's into easy 3's.

    Honestly, I can't see why Bogans starts, period. As we know from the years of the "Ben Gordon--Starter or 6th Man" saga, many players in the NBA view starting much more favorably than coming off the bench (whether it is logical or not). What message is Thibs sending to players by continuing to trot out Bogans, other than "Hey, you may have outperformed this guy in every way humanly possible with a basketball, but he is still starting over you"???

    Good team guy or not, I find it hard to believe that Brewer, at some point, hasn't at least privately wondered what he has to do to crack the starting lineup over Bogans.

    I'm beyond baffled. I was bemused by Dusty Baker's love of all things Neifi Perez, and was aggravated by Lovie Smith's infatuation with Rex Grossman. Thibs has upped (downed?) the ante considerably with Bogans.

  • In reply to saigman:


  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Yeah I in no way think Thibs is an idiot, quite the opposite. But man I would love to see Brewer get a chance to start. Tho I can understand why you dont want to tinker with the lineup with Noah out...but really if you're swapping a defensive player for a defensive player it shouldnt be that big of a deal. Plus Brewer knows how to make teams pay on offense....he does shoot above 50%. If I were king for a day I'd start Brewer....sub in Korver at some point....then Brewer comes back in with Watson spelling Rose and go from there. But alas I work in IT not the NBA...haha

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Doug, thank you for summing up Boozer's night in a nutshell. I have no problem with the Boozer benching. If you are going to allow yourself to get put on Kris Humphries career highlight reel (which has to be one of the shortest reels ever) and not hustle back on defense, I don't care who you are or how much money your making.

    The two concerns I have from last night's game is Deng's minutes and not having a timeout to set up a last second shot. I'm really starting to get worried about Deng's minutes because he has shown a tendency to get nagging injuries late in the season when he's putting up big minutes early in the season. I would have liked to see Taj come in for Deng in the 4th just to give him a blow. It wasn't until Deng stepped up to the line and clanked two free throws with 34 seconds left in the game that I realized he had been on the floor the entire second half.

    Thibs not having a timeout to set up a one more end of game play is Del Negroish, but I will let it slide because this is the first time this has happened.

    Bottom line: The Bulls were due for a loss from one of these weaker teams eventually. With the exception of the Raptors game, they have not been playing a winning brand of basketball. Hopefully, this loss will serve as a reminder that any team can beat them when they do bring energy or defense to a contest. I'm anxious to see how they bounce back against Philly on Friday and Boston on Saturday.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    u're really dumb. excuse me but it's tottaly stupid what u're sayin. Brewer and Watson defend and attack better than bogans. It stops there !!! all the other things are bullshits.

  • funny dont recall Pops playing defense from the sidelines as does Thibs. Perhaps more credit should be given to Rose, Boozer, Noah, Gibson, for the wins rather than say that the wins are the by product of Thib's Frantic Micro managing style. All in all, Thibs current style, whether for rookie coach to earn recognition or some phycalogical reason difficiency, on his current path, will lead to players tuning him out and his ultimate dismisal. Its sad, but Rick Patino, Scott Skiles, styles doesn't work well in the NBA, and ultimately the players are empowered enough to end Thibs tenure with the bulls...

    If Thibs changes his ways to learn and have a seat on the bench during games without breathing down everyones neck at every play, he may last longer, but so far he is shown a rather stubburn nature bent on a dogmatic style play...

  • In reply to adkhanz:

    The players deserve the credit for being a top 3 defense? And Thibs doesn't? Are you joking?

    Thibs came in known as a defensive phenom coach, and what happens? All this while never having Boozer and Noah healthy in the same game. Obviously I give credit to the team and coaching staff. But this defensive overhaul begins and ends with Thibs. Especially considering he's done it with a starting lineup that isn't exactly bursting with defensive talent; kind of like Boston's defensive renaissance.. hmm?

  • I don't think Thibs is an idiot, by any stretch. However, my fear with continuing to trot out Bogans (asides from constantly playing 4 on 5) is that it starts to send a message to not only guys on your team, but others around the league. Basically "If I like you, you'll play, performance be damned".

    Why would anyone want to come here if they thought there was a chance they'd ride the pine for no good reason at all?

  • exactly right, and I think the communication you mention, along with the winning of course, is really the key

  • hahaha amen

  • I don't blame Boozer, of course his defense isn't good but i don't blame him. THIS LOST IS ON THIBODEAU .This coach is starting get me upset.

    -Why is he still playing Bogans while we've got better options than him ?? Brewer Watson play better D and O than Bogans. So what's wrong with this head coach ??

    -Why thomas is playing more than gibson ??

    -This coach'd rather have a player who only defends than a player who defends and attacks.once again what's wrong with him ??

    - It isn't a coincidence if the bulls always play bad the 1st and 3rd quarter(When Bogans is on the court).

    - We were lacking of Offense yesterday in the 3rd quarter. He replaced boozer by gibson whereas boozer is our 2nd offensive option. Why not replace kurt thomas by gibson ?? Gibson defends as well as Thomas and can score and run.

    - Noah is out, Gibson' munites should have normally increased. but instead of that, he's only playing 15 min a game. I don't understand why bogans and thomas are playing instead of Brewer and Gibson.

    Hey, that lost and the last ugly wins are on the coach. He's the one we should blame. Seriously I've always liked teams who plays great D like boston or last year Cavs and hated teams like phoenix who doesn't care about D. But right now, Thibodeau is making me hate D. It goods to make stops but u have also to put the ball in the basket if u want to win. Thibodeau is underrating Offense !!!

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