Bulls just treading water until Noah gets back

With a nasty virus running through the Thonus household, I missed all but the closing minutes of the game.  However, while our worst fears of Joakim Noah's absence haven't been realized, the team clearly badly misses its star center.   The Bulls are winless on the road in 2011, they've dropped three games all three are ones they should have won against inferior teams; the Nets, 76ers, and now the Bobcats.

What does this mean about the Bulls as contenders?   Probably not too much.  Do you judge the Heat if they lose Chris Bosh and struggle?   Would the Spurs be the same without one of their big three?    That's the Bulls right now.  They're a team that's made up of a big three.   Three guys with the vast majority of the productivity, a nice fourth guy in Deng, and some decent bench guys.   

Missing one of their best, things simply aren't the same.  Joakim Noah is the second best player on this team.    The team is 9-6 with Boozer out and Noah playing while it's 9-5 with Noah out and Boozer playing.   Advantage Boozer?   No.

The losses without Noah?
@Thunder
Knicks
@Boston
@San Antonio
@Lakers
@Nuggets (also without Rose)

The losses without Boozer?
Clippers
@Knicks
@Nets
@76ers
@Bobcats

This team was playing considerably better early in the season despite a shakier record.  The Bulls are barely beating teams they're supposed to beat and losing to a bunch of teams they should beat now.  

This isn't knocking Boozer, but it is meant to highlight just how important Joakim Noah is to this team.  He sets the emotional tone for the team.  He brings the energy.  He allows them to play at a fast pace.   The Bulls offense is hurt considerably without him, and while Kurt Thomas has done an amazing job under the circumstances, the defense is hurt without him as well.

So the Bulls will continue to fight to tread water until Noah gets back.  I'd say it's time to bench Bogans and stop putting the team in such a deficit, but those complaints are falling on deaf ears at this point.

What's worse is the Bulls brand of basketball has turned ugly as well.   There are still some great plays from Rose here and there, perhaps a Ronnie Brewer breakaway dunk, but without Noah the team has become a slow down, grind it out, ugly it up squad. 

All that said, they're still chugging along at a pace above 50 wins.   This team without one of its best players is sill rolling around a 50 win pace waiting for health, and if they can maintain it through the rest of the season once Noah comes back, they'll still be a threat to come out of the East.

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  • yeah you're right, I just hoped you had some information on the Noah timetable. The team is unwatchable at times without Noah putting the them on his back.

  • In fairness to Boozer while he was out Gibson and Korver were hitting shots and now neither can throw the ball into the ocean. I think that's been a bigger factor than which of Boozer or Noah we have.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Which isn't to say that Noah isn't the second most important player on the team because of the bad backup effect, but the article states he's the second best player, which I don't agree with.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    The uptempo the Bulls play with Noah and the energy, hustle, tenaciousness that Noah brings makes him the 2nd best player on the Bulls. He has a Matrix gear, not like Rose, but he does have it...that X factor that we miss so much right now.
    Boozer is right up there with being the 2nd best, but he comes in behind Noah due to the synergistic effects Noah brings to the team.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    I keep having to comfort myself with the fact that for at least the last 10 or so years, many of the better teams in the Eastern Conference have played the NBA regular season with less than a sense of urgency prior to the playoffs. For example If I remember right, the 3 best records in the East last year were Cleveland, Orlando and Atlanta. How'd that work out for them? The team with the best overall talent, the Celtics, just treaded water until the playoffs started and then hit the gas hard. I'm not saying the Bulls are the best overall team in the East because clearly they're not, but whether we as fans like it or not, the Bulls would be far better off focusing on simply making progress as a team and keeping everyone healthy and in shape for the playoffs. If I were Thibs, my #1 priority would be to manage Rose's time so he's fresh to play major minutes in the playoffs.

  • In reply to willrice51:

    "If I were Thibs, my #1 priority would be to manage Rose's time so he's fresh to play major minutes in the playoffs."

    I agree, but clearly Thibs doesn't. He burns his guys however much he needs to in order to win individual games, the future (or the player's health) be damned. It's hard to watch Deng burn 40 mins per game and think Thibs has any long term plan in mind.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    I think you have Boozer and Noah backwards in your post. The bulls lost to phi, nj, and cha without Noah.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    I don't know if I'd call him the 2nd best player. But I'd definitely call him the 2nd most important player on this team because of what he brings to both sides of the ball. The offense looks ragged because they can't run as effectively without Noah and because of his passing from the mid-to-high post in the half-court offense.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    EXCUSES:

    This topic seems like an EXCUSE to me.

    The Bulls don't have Noah, so what? Miami doesn't have Haslem, Boston doesn't have Perkins and Orlando has over-hauled their their roster.

    The Bulls front-court isn't the problem.

    Their 13 losses stem from bad coaching, a lack of leadership and poor back-court scoring.

    It's as simple and yet as complicated as that.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    REALITY CHECK

    Joakim NOah > Haslem or Perkins

    GET A CLUE MAPPY BOY

  • In reply to jpbaker81:

    Jon,

    GET A CLUE...you don't know SHIT about basketball.

    Noah isn't the problem.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    REALITY CHECK MAPPY LAD

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Please Doog, stop giving bad reasons. We need Noah to beat Miami, orlando or boston. But we don't need noah to beat NJ, philly or charlotte. Be honest,it has nothing to do with noah's injury. It's Thibs' fault. he doesn't know when and how use his players, his rotation is bad.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    I see you've missed the fact that its Doug not Doog, is your avatar name supposed to be spelled Daves?

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    lol. stupid error. i'm too furious about the way this team is playing !!

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    LET'S BE HAPPY BULLS FANS. RONDO IS NOW TRAILLING ROSE IN ALLSTAR VOTES.
    ROSE - 1,225,575
    Rondo - 1,171,311

    It seems like people are noticing that Rondo can't shoot that why he always pass. lol

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Mappy Lad;

    Noah is the 2nd best player on the Bulls. Take the 2nd best player off Miami or Boston if you want to make a comparison about performance. Haslem and Perkins are ROLE players. GET A CLUE!

  • In reply to jpbaker81:

    it has nothing to do with noah !! Thibs is the problem. even last year, average bulls team could beat NJ, cha and philly !! Stops comparing Noah and Haslem. Do u think noah is a star or franchise player ?? he is a role player !!

  • In reply to deewaves:

    lol did you even watch the bulls last year?

  • In reply to deewaves:

    no they didn't , that is why they were a .500 team both of the last 2 years, they constantly lost to lesser teams. That and we played .200 ball with Noah out last year.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    deewaves, how old are you? If you claim to be an adult or responsible teenager, let's see what you look like.
    From your post you're childish, reckless, stupid and grossly irresponsible. If anyone deserves to be banned from this blog because of outrageous comments it's you!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Yes, but Mappy knows SHIT about everything.

  • In reply to jpbaker81:

    I'll expand on that person's thoughts.

    The Bulls starters got outscored 75-73 vs. Charlotte.
    The Bulls bench got outscord 21-18 vs. Charlotte.

    Keith Bogans got outscored 16-2 vs. Stephen Jackson...where's the problem?

    Not having Noah didn't lose the Bulls this game last night...GET A CLUE, not an EXCUSE!!!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Note: This is common sense.

    You lose your starting center and replace him with a 37 year old that played 2 minutes prior to his injury. There will be a considerable drop off. (and no kurt thomas is not either of the O'neals replacing perkins)

    Orlando has overhauled its roster... but not one starter is inured. Their pay roll is significantly over the cap which affords them depth at every position. FACT

    No the Bulls are not getting production out of their SG. Yes Korver should be starting over Bogans.
    No the Bulls didnt lose the game BECAUSE of not having Noah, however the Bulls PROBABLY would have won they game if they DID have Noah.

    Also how is this topic an excuse? It's stating one fact - noah is injured - and relating it to another fact - Bulls are losing more. It's not an excuse, its a statement of fact.

    You state the bulls are losing due to lack of leadership. Who is the undeniable emotional leader of the bulls and the team leader of the defense? I'm pretty sure its not Deng...

    As every ignorant fan you also blame the coach. Yes you've seen him lose a game for us, and run out of time outs once. However, have you seen him in practice? Do you know how many times he's won us games? What his half time speeches are that get us to rally every time? what in game switches he makes. He has not blown a 35 point lead a la vinny del negro. In the end coaches have very little to do with team success. It is more a matter in players BELIEVING in the coach and his system that gets the most of them (the players). While impossible to be proven, players state, and watchful eyes notice that the players have bought into the system thibs is preaching which has led to the 3rd best record in the east.

    Oh and for the record. Derrick rose got outscored by DJ augistin 22-17. the final score you ask? 96-91. So was it bogans (who played 15 minutes compared to jacksons 43), or was it rose (who played equal minutes to augustin).

  • In reply to sillyrussian:

    "We gave them transition, isolation plays, ball driving to the rim with no help, not containing dribble penetration," Thibodeau said. "We brought on our own problems." "They got whatever they wanted to start the game," coach Tom Thibodeau said. "You're playing from a deficit. And they're playing with more confidence. So your job is tougher to slow them down."
    He's holding the team responsible, while not accepting culpability. Does his personnel decisions and substitutions give the Bulls the best opportunity to win?
    Players buy into a system when they're winning. Things change fast after a string of losses.
    By the way, he ran out of timeouts as well. As it turned out we weren't cclose enough for it to matter.
    Coaching does matter. Look no further than Charlotte with the change to Paul Silas and Charles Oakley.

  • In reply to sillyrussian:

    Thank you thank you thank you. Thank god for common sense, I thought it might be lost forever.

  • In reply to sillyrussian:

    Thanks for pointing that out. I know that it is sacrilege to say anything negative about God(I mean Rose) on this site, but he sucked last night, exposing almost all of his bad habits.

    Basically, we got beat by Augustine and Tyrus Thomas, who just happen to have been going up against our 2 best(with Noah out)players, Rose and Boozer.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I hold Thibadope responsible for every loss in which Keith Bogus starts. I just don't see the Bulls falling that far behind in the 1st quarter with Brewer in place of Bogus. The press complains about this but never takes it straight to the Dope himself. Press him on it, lay out the obvious reasoning and make him state his case for Bogus starting beyond drooling out that line about him being a "defensive role player". It's beyond bizarre. Paxson should push him or whatever it takes to wake his ass up.

    Why don't we start Watson, Bogans, Asik, Lucas III, and Scalabrine? That way we can have TONS of energy off the bench when Rose, Boozer, etc come in the 2nd quarter?

    I.AM.SO.PISSED.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    NOTE: I took this from another site.

    The Bulls are 21-3 this year when their SG's score 10+ points or more.

    - Kyle Korver 12-2 (losses to NYK and SAS)
    - Ronnier Brewer 6-1 (loss to NYK)
    - Keith Bogans 3-0

    Can we get some CONSISTENT DOUBLE-DIGIT SCORING at the SG position please?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    It's actually 21-2, because the NYK's loss was counted twice.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Nevermind...that's a combined record...my bad.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    and u think this can beat miami, boston, orlando ?? we are only in the leel of NY and atlanta, bulls aren't contender. We lost 2 games in row against bad team( NJ and philly) then a difficult win against pistons, then a lost to charlotte. C'mon guys, let's be honest we are only a good team that win more than loose, nothing more. Beat the celtics without KG isn't that great, boston is an average team without KG.

    I can't stand Thibs anymore. this guy is very annoying. Why the f*k is he starting Bogans ? Every game, we have a bad 1st or 3rd quarter. Is he thinking eveytime we will fight back and win ??? NO, that's why bobcat beat us. Bogans is killing each 1st and 3rd quarter.

    why the old thomas played 35 min whereas gibson only played 15 min ? what'S wrong with Thibs ? Thomas only defends whereas Gibson can defends, rebound, and attack. Thomas can't guard the little thomas, he is ridiculous. Why is he replacing boozer by gibson when we need baskets ??
    Bulls front office must do something about the bogans' problem.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    1. I think GarPax's Plan B or Plan C of Summer 2010 is still in the process of being implemented. With the way things are going on, no team is going to help out the Bulls ala Pau Gasol.
    2. Off-course, we need a better second ball handler. Usually, it is the SF or the SG who does that. I am pretty sure GarPax are aware that Noah is probably the second best ball handler amongst our starters. That's where Deng sucks. Unfortunately, Thibs or Vinny didn't let JJ develop or fail.
    3. Still, Noah does do some things for this team what a SG or a SF does(secondary ball handling)and he also does a few other things like protecting the paint, help defense, blocks, energy(which apparently no one else provides maybe except for Brewer), hustle points(putbacks), co-ordinate the defense etc..
    4. One thing I want to see is the 3 pt defense from this team when Noah gets back. It seems like we just are unable to shoot or defend 3 pointers.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    DO THE MATH (...NOT HAVING NOAH ISN'T THE ISSUE):

    - The Bulls are 13-11 when Kyle Korver doesn't score in double-figures.
    - The Bulls are 18-12 when Ronnie Brewer doesn't score in double-figures.
    - The Bulls are 22-13 when Keith Bogans doesn't score in double-figures.

    * There was a mistake made on Ronnie Brewer's +10 points record. It's actually 7-1.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    all this proves is we dont win when we dont score? thanks John "the team with the most points in the end wins the game" Madden

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    +1000000. I absolutly agree. Noah isn't the reason. I don't think Noah will turn us to a team which can't beat bad teams(Nj philly, charlote) to a contender !! we're not supposed to feels noah's abscence against team like Charlotte.
    80% of that lost come from bad coaching. The situation will for sure be better if gibson and brewer start.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Miami isn't a contender either. They just lost to the Clippers. The Lakers lost to Memphis so they're not a contender either. Crap. We have no contenders just a bunch of NBA teams playing for nothing.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Sorry to hear, the household's not well. Get well soon.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Sorry to hear a bug's floating around. Get well soon.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    NOTE: I took this from another site.

    The Bulls have been outscored by double-digits in a single quarter 20 times this year.

    Orlando (5), Boston (7) and Miami (10), combined, have had that happen 22 times this year.

    * What is Tom Thibodeau and/or GarPax doing about that, besides starting K. Bogans?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Yet, we are right up there tied with Orlando with 25-13 record.
    Boy reality is a bitch. Dumbass.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    We are tied with Orlando at 25-13. Boy, I'm glad someone is keeping track of our wins because it seems you see us as a lottery team.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    In all the whirlwind and expectations of free agency, destabalizing injuries, and a new coach one thing about the Bulls IMO that gets lost track of is that we have a lot of new players. Roles have to be recognized and (re)establsihed. But have they?Offensively at 98ppg with Deng, Boozer, and Derrick filling their share and beyond of the scoring where is the rest of the 'team?'

    So what would you call Keith Bogan's "role"? Team sandbag? 15 Minutes with two points, zero assists, and zero steals, oh and two rebounds. He's historically over the last three years averaged about 4pg on 30something percent shooting(i.e sucks). And C.J. you can say hasn't looked any better with his poor shooting. But he's shown two years straight at 25-26 reliable minutes he gives you 10ppg on 48-49% shooting plus excellent steals rate per minutes played. And despite his size, when he plays he does get active on D and keeps his man in front of him.

    You can talk about Derrick not moving his feet last night, and looking at times like the poor defender of old. You can talk about Boozer being slow reacting, and hurting the team defensively. You can talk about Deng once again not scoring in the fourth quarter.

    But is Deng, Boozer, and Derrick Rose what's making the offense so ugly, and getting the team in huge holes game after game? The answer: please!?

    Sam Smith today again says the lack of offense with Bogans and Thomas is really hurting the team. While Thomas(he's really played well) is not a scorer, Taj Gibson has proven he can be. I don't care what people want to say about Taj's brick shooting for this long spell after his torrid start. He has shown time and again when he is a featured post player he produces down there. And then he hits his jumper(inside out), and rebounds per minute his defensive energy(blocks etc.)/value becomes huge. People regard him as a starter quality player in this league for a reason. And the more he plays and plays well the less silly fouls he usually commits and the more respect he gets from the refs.

    Ronnie is more of an energy steal, rebound, assist intangible guy. He doesn't really have an offensive game per say except roaming the baseline for opportuntiy dunks of boards and feeds when he's left open. So Ronnie can thrive whether he starts or not. But most games he's been getting his 30 or so minutes to get in his groove. A groove which again is quality with 12 and 13ppg seasons at 49-50% with excellent steals per minutes.

    Look, either you think C.J.'s career 10ppg on 49% at 25-26 minutes is legit, and needs to be utilized or you don't. C.J. is not a blue chipper. He's a D-League diamond in the rough. Those type of players need to be cultivated. He has performed at the SG(largely with drives to the basket), and that's where he needs to play. And defensively he does a good job of staying in front of his man. Add his steals and acitivity, and I'd say it's not a stretch to say he's one of the better if not best guard defenders on the team size not withstanding. We need his offense. "Well Thibs won't play him at the two with derrick," Sam Smith. Then why the hell did you sign him!? He's not a PG he's a quality in 25-26 minutes SG. That's what he is a SG driver. And then inside out he hits his jumper as does Taj.

    Then you've got Kyle who when left open from the perimeter is a threat. He's averaged approx. 10ppg on 22mpg with 43% percent shooting for his career and 40% from threes. Or you can play him 16 minutes against Charlotte(often lately four or five minutes) and Keith Bogans 15 minutes!? Start Kyle with Derrick and get him the open looks he needs. And reestablish his value/worth to him as well as Thibs who has left him in the dust. And if they(the defender) does stay with him, then Derrick make them pay dearly.

    Tom Thibodeau has never head coached in 30 years of NBA assistant coaching. No one saw him fit for that job. Oh well he's just not likeable/personable as someone has suggested. Well if that means a charismatic leader figure then that's not just a prejudice it is a lacking quality important to a winning head coach. Most coaches started by their late 30's or early 40's. Maybe Thibs does have chrisma. And maybe he is bright enough offensively to see who needs to fulfill the roles they are capable of. But so far he's not shwoing it. Whether Thibs can come in now with no head coaching experience, and succeed is still an open question. But certainly he is not utilizing his offensive rescources historically(as the Bulls front office pursued and signed them for this body of work/history).

    The Bulls team momentum and energy is being drained by a lack of involvement/production from the best/capable players available in C.J. and Kyle along with Taj who is the second best big man, but is not playing much at all on many nights nor is he being put in a historic(one year but still he's shown it) position of being featured in the low post especially early in games, game after game to establish his foundation of success and energy. His game again like C.J.'s as a quality, but non-prolific star scorer is inside out. But neither C.J. as a point or Taj's as Boozer's back-up/afterthought not being featured in the post are being given that inside out role they need.

    If Thibs doesn't change things soon, and utilize the offensively capable players he has then I think the team's momentum and offensive energy will diminish further sapping the team's overall energy and defensive effectiveness as well. And not just effort wise, but when other teams know your offense overall is an ugly struggle/non-threatening it emboldens them to score with confidence whether you have a good fundamental defense or not. Because individually the Bulls are not full of good one on one individual defenders anyway. But offensively they do have an abundance of unused/way underutilized talent.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I agree with Road Warrior, CJ and Taj are not being utilized effectively.

  • In reply to thegreatlie:

    +100

  • In reply to thegreatlie:

    much more consicely, I might add.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    AMEN. This is a very serious problem that many Bulls fans are loathe to admit because it is clear that Thibs is a superior X's and O's coach. But WTF is wrong with him when it comes to player/minute management?? Upper management needs to get involved. The press isn't doing it's job to get in his face about this and demand that he explain himself. All the fans can do is wail and gnash our teeth in the blogosphere. Paxson needs to do some serious pushing.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I feel Taj has to be traded because of the Boozer signing. He is a luxury now. Oddly, he is more effective as a starter than off the bench. He probably needs rhythm and the Bulls having better offense from the starters compared to the bench, he can focus on his strengths. The Bulls cannot use him optimally from the bench and I feel would be better served having somebody like Tyrus Thomas type as the backup PF.
    I agree that the best starter at SG now is probably CJ. He is a pretty pesky defender and can help Rose at ball handling along with shooting some 3s when Rose dishes out.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I'd agree that the use of our bench and role players has been puzzling at times and has prolly atrributed to some of these losses...however it's ridiculous to down play Noah's absence. If you weighted it you'd have to tilt the scale towards Noah being out as being a bigger factor. That said, if Thibs tweaked his rotations the way some of us would like (i.e. bench Bogans and get Korver Brewer and Watson going more) I totally agree we would be playing better team ball. Still Noah > role players all day long. Still a bit or an overreation to get all gloom and doom on the team if blah blah blah...bottom line this team is on pace to have home court adv in the playoffs having never played full strength yet. Retards like Mappy can call that excuses....Mappy's pscychiatrist would call that reality. To admit that doesnt mean anyone is accepting these losses or that the team shouldnt be playing better. I still like Thibs and will not run him out of town in the middle of the night with pitchforks but instead will support my team and hope to see him improve as I assume he will. Come playoffs I expect a healthy team and a tight rotation that excludes Bogans...or Pax may be taking another "hold me back" swing at someone. :-)

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    damn man, can I get this post on Kindle?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Agree. To be optimistic, let's wait for last day of trade deadline. The last 3 year's, the bulls have pulled a trade by deadline. Thibs do not trust Kolver, so trade him.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I hate to say this but good analysis! I'm a Accountant and I look at the #s too so I appreciate this analysis!
    Yeah it is crazy how we dig ourselves in a hole against teams we should be beating with ease! Id like to think we are entertaining the fans and not boring them with a blowout win but I don't think this is the case after our 3 current road losses to teams we should have beaten at home or away, or even outside in the Chicago cold for that matter! :-)

  • In reply to smiley:

    Lay off the 5 hour energy troy, your getting out of control with the exclamation marks...as usual.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    lmao!

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Obviously, the Bulls are better with Noah.
    Nonetheless, they should and could be winning at least some of these games.

    Our coach is an excellent assistant and is performing like it.
    Too many of the Bull's close losses can be at least partially attributed to substitution errors.
    Other than DRose at times leading by example, without Noah, there appears to be a lack of necessary competitive leadership on this team.

    You've seen them allow mediocre opponents get the crowd and their role players enthused.
    It's hard for the Bulls to play with the swagger that demoralizes losing teams when they are consistently spotting the other team double digit leads.

    And then like last night, the Bulls don't have the confidence that winning teams need to win close games on the road.

    This is directly attributable to Thib not giving the Bulls the best chance to win.

  • In reply to Waldock:

    That's what i'm talking about. This coach doesn't know how and when use his player ?? Per exemple, to get deng back on the floor, he's gonna bench korver instead of brewer whereas we need some points or to put Gibson on the floor, he's gonna bench boozer instead of thomas whereas we need some points.
    his substitions and rotation are simply bad and it's costing us some games.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    +100. Right now this coach is only playing gibson 15 min a game whereas his fat old thomas plays 35 min. Korver is barely used. this is awful !

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Umm.. what he's saying is that Korver and Taj suck right now, which is why they aren't being used sparingly. What he said had absolutely zero correlation to playing time or what coach Thibs has done one way or the other.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    some players need more time on the court to be confident so to play well. that's the case for Taj and korver. They need more munites to do what they have to do !

  • Agree. It is not that we don't need another scorer at SG...it is that that this team will most of their games through defense and Rose/Boozer/Noah making that clutch basket in the 4th quarter and shutting the other team down rather than shooting a ton of 3 pointers like the Suns or Orlando. Do you think Tyrus would have such a great game with Noah being around(BTW, in an ideal world we could have had the good Tyrus instead of Taj).

  • I really miss noah's tip ins.

  • In reply to Maxima23:

    I'm with you allstar.. god I miss it.

  • the question is not who is better ? noah or haslem ?? the question is why are we loosing when we're supposed to win even with noah out !!

    a role player isn't a star or a franchise player, he is just a helper not a difference maker !! is noah a star ? is noah a franchise player caliber ?? can noah create his own shoot or attract double-team ?? Can he change the curse of game ??

    If noah wasn't only a role player, bulls wouldn't have signed a big another big name in the paint(Boozer). They would've said "noah is enough is the paint" we don't need more.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    deewaves, you are seriously challenging Mr. Happy for the title of "Blog Retard"

  • In reply to jpbaker81:

    hahahahahaha

  • In reply to jpbaker81:

    He is challenginf LeBron James for the world title

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Either you are in the 7th grade and therefore have only had 8 years of education of you are 30 and still only had 8 years of education.

    So because you have a great center its pointless to go get a great PF? So since we have DRose, a great PG, its pointless to go get a great SG right? Wow. And Noah was easily on the allstar team before his injury. Role player? Child Please.

  • I feel we gave up a high draft pick in Tyrus(who eventually realized he is not a #1,#2 or #3 option on a contending team)who could have been a great energy big of the bench. In a odd way, Taj seems to be a good option to start(steady play) rather than somebody who can contribute from the bench.

  • man, what's wrong with u ? i totally agree with, i've never said that noah have no impact on this team. For sure, we're better with him. For sure, his impact goes over the stats. I agree.

    But I just say, when we lost against NJ, phylly and cha. it isn't because of Noah' injury. Of course as u said the bulls are a lesser team without him, but that doesn't mean it needs noah to beat those bad teams. C'mon man, why do u open a discussion whereas we agree ?

  • In reply to deewaves:

    but its still not Thibs

  • The Bulls tend to lose games to teams that are athletic and have descent scorers from the perimeter. The Clippers were able to win against the Heat last night because they are athletic and the Clippers can be a dangerous team if they ever get there heads on right. I really don't see the Bulls beating the Heat on Sat. cause of their lack of athleticism and the ability to slow down LBJ. And hopefully they wont look past the Pacers tomorrow night in Indy cause the Pacers do tend to play teams tough on their home floor.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    most of all with bogans starting, Rose will be double-teamed by 2 great defender(Arroyo and chalmers). It sad the way Thibs handle this team.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    can someone explain to me what's the bulls plan during the next 5 years. If we don't trade for carmelo or in others terms if we don't create a big three in chicago, how will the bulls do to compete against heat ?? Because after this years, the celtics will go down and the heat legacy will start. Bulls need a real plan to be capable of beating heat in playoffs.

    Rose will sign an extension, bulls won't have any cap space to add another great talent to rose and boozer ! What's bulls plan to improve the team (if not trading for melo) ?

    It's a fair question, don't look at me as a Mr Happy follower !! loool

  • In reply to deewaves:

    that's why its important to not crap out by trading away the assets that we do have, only to incrementaly improve.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Exactly. It is not exactly Big three or Big Four by getting players who are has-beens like Dallas has done with Jason Kidd or Orlando did with Vince Carter. Most winners need to have the 1A or 1B option who is home grown. Even Miami has Wade and Lakers have Kobe. Since Rose is going to be our 1A or 1B option, we have time for a year or two. What GarPax have done is smart...give 2 year contracts on the FA money before Rose gets his big extension. They can get that big FA next trading deadline or summer. And they don't even need an elite one. Just a SG equivalent of Deng in terms of ability. They don't need Melo or a top 10 player(it would be nice though).

  • Clippers beat the Heat?

    I guess I should read the sports section more closely.

    LeBron out with a sprained ankle?

  • In reply to rkraneis:

    Man..that karma is a b...h.
    He has all the riches and is the best player in the NBA...but he doesn't realize that is maybe for a 6-8 years only. If he done this to Chicago, LA or NY...they are big towns which can cope with such things...but poor Cleveland.
    He will probably win a few championships but he really is making it tough on himself.

  • Inasmuch as I didn't want to see Tyrus go either, I can't see Thibs playing him much. He's just a springier, less ballhandling version of JJ. That shot he hit last night to give them the lead, flinging it over his head backwards at the rim, was classic TT - he makes that shot once every 20 times. He had a good game - we've seen him have good games like that, but not consistently. And yes, TT doesn't have that game with Noah around.

  • As I said when he went down, Noah is at least as important to our record(winning) as Rose is.

    Rose is the offense, and Noah is the defense and just about everything else.

    I am not sure that this team without Rose wins more games than this team without Noah.

    We have no replacement for everything/anything that Noah gives us. Watson put up 33 in Rose's absence.

    Not saying that I would take Noah over Rose if forced to choose, but they are both indespensible, and at least equally important to winning.

    The way this team is playing now, my prediction of the Bulls struglling to play over .500 in Noahs absence does not seem that pessimistic. We appear to be a threat to lose any/every road game.

  • umm... you are joking right. I'm going to assume you're joking.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    fyi I was referring to RPKs comments.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    miami not a contender ?are serious or u're just kidding us??

  • In reply to deewaves:

    wait...are you joking?

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    Very good point, I hadn't really fully considered that, the team definitely needs to be made aware of this and act accordingly.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    Rose and Deng play too many minutes. But what's the alternative? Play them less and lose more games? If they had been together long enough to have an established chemistry, and if they were so experienced that home court in the playoffs wasn't that critical, Thibs wouldd probably manage their minutes differently.

    But he's a first time head coach on a new team with high expectations even though over half the roster consists of new players. He has to ride the hell out of his main horses to get the best playoff position possible. The injuries haven't helped. The overall points, rebounds and defense that Rose and Deng provide are even more critical when Noah or Boozer are out.

    The two things that bother me are the habitually poor starts and Bogans starting. I believe the 2 issues are directly related. The Bulls would get off to better starts if Brewer started at SG simply from his ability to run the floor and initiate the break with forced turnovers. But then they wouldn't have any perimeter defensive punch coming off the bench at all.

    The Bulls need to get healthy, first and foremost. And hopefully Gar/Pax can pull off a trade for SG/SF that can defend at a high level AND knock down jumpers consistently enough to spread opposing defenses or at least make them pay for not spreading out. I just don't see too many of those types of guys out there and available.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    When I wrote "If they had been together..." in the 1st paragraph, I was talking about Thibs and the Bulls.

  • He is the glue guy, a leader, the best defender, the best rebounder, a clutch player, a hustle & energy guy, one of the top tip in artists in the NBA, one of the most athletic centers in the NBA, he laeds all centers in steals per game, one of the best passers he is 4th among centers in assists, and under rated at creating his own shot as he has developed that running hook layup while averaging 14 ppg

    He does everything, but its a bit of a curse, to the observer at least, because when he doesn't play, you can't point at 1 single thing he does, 1 single thing the team is missing and say 'Hey, we are not doing this, Noah does that, we are missing him'.

    The best attempt you can make is to say he is a winner. So when you drop some winnable games, I think it is very safe to assume he is the major reason why.

  • fairly certain, that was a tongue in cheek comment meant to display the ludicrous nature of Mappy's and Dwaves propostion.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Thanks Bigway. I think everyone has their guard up w/ all of Happy's comments. Shit.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    One of the reasons the Bulls have lost a couple of road games this month to teams that they shouldn't, in addition to Noah's absence, poor defense at times, and Bogans' poor play, is that we are now wearing a large target on our backs.

    Teams, especially struggling or recently surging teams, get up to play us. The league has taken notice of the Bulls & D Rose. We are now one of those teams. The Bulls players have to understand that. They are going to get these teams' best effort. I was forced to listen to the League Pass' Charlotte feed last night (side note: got to hand it to the league pass this year, most nights they allow you to choose your hometown telecast). The guys calling the game were nothing that it was easily Charlotte's most impressiv e win of the year. That tells you we lost to a team that doesn't have all that many wins, but also that we have become one of those teams that players get up for, a great team that can become a notch in the belt. During the bulls past 5 years of mediocrity, they have gotten wins like that. The broadcasters also noted that the Bobcats plaers were esecially focused and attentive during the scouting & film session and the warmups.

    We are not sneaking up on anyone now. We have become the prey. The players need to respond and play a full 48 minutes like Thibs constantly preaches. These laspses in defense & energy are troubling. You know almost to a certainty that sometime in the 1st quarter they are going to allow a huge run, catalized by poor team defense. How many games have we gone down by 10+ points in the 1st quarter now?

    The Bulls have a target on their back. This is not an excuse, but they need to realize this & respond. Respond with 48 minutes of energy & focus, a greater sense of urgency.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    And Chicagoans don't fully realize how strong of a brand Chicago Bulls basketball is. My friend was telling me one time that everyone here, in our part of Florida & the rest of the US I'm sure too, were Bulls fans in the 90's. Everyone followed Jordan & the Bulls, and in much of a way their logo & uniforms still carry that power, because the generation playing now, were the ones growing up watching & idolizing Jordan. Teams like the Lakers, Celtics, & Bulls, when they are good, are unlike the rest of the teams. They are a little extra special because of their history.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    furthermore, its the NBA. There is a lot of talent out there. Almost any team is capable of beating any other team on a given night. You need star power to win consistently, but besides that the line is pretty fine. It often comes down to focus & effort. Charlotte is a prime example, because they were a playoff team last year, this year they sucked, then Larry Brown steps down, they have a renewed focus & chemistry, then all of a sudden rip off a couple of wins.
    This is the NBA, every team has talent, and right now we are seeing their best effort & ability to get that talent working as a team. Bulls need to respond better, but this is good battle testing for the playoffs.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Yeah, you look at two of the teams we lost to, the Clippers and the Bobcats, and they're on 8-3 and 6-2 runs. You can easily hit a bad team when they're hot and get beat.

  • God remember how many put backs Noah got every single game? How many put backs have you seen since he went out? Slim to none.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    I miss the tip-ins more than anything. Especially on the Rose drives where he can't finish.
    I had the Laker game taped, I missed that one and never got around to watching it until 2 nights ago having already known the outcome. I forgot Noah played in that huge win, and found myself yelling some variation of "my God Noah I miss you!" several times, and that was with the torn ligament in his thumb.
    Get well soon Noah.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    just read you guys' almost exact sentiments a little farther down the page. I'm amazed at how often I read virtually the same thought that I expressed without knowing. Some of us are really dialed in to the same wavelength

  • You are correct, but Bogans is still dragging the team down and making it harder to win than it should be against good teams and bad.

    Rigt now the Bulls are playing 3 on 5 on offense for all the minutes that Bogans is on the court.

  • That trade chip (Taj) isn't worth as much as it was when he was putting up good numbers.

  • i'm not a heat lawyer but remembert most of the lost u're talking about were in the begining of the season when they were finding way. Right now i'll be surprised if Heat loose 2 games in row against bad teams like bulls did or 3 games in 4 against bad teams.

  • by the way about miami, check out the comments i've posted in the bottom of the page.

  • I absolutely agree and would not hesitate to call him the 2nd best player on the team.

  • really the first 5 minutes. They let up 20 points by then

  • They really do, with the exception of the Orlando Magic Matt Guokas who absolutelt has it in for the Bulls for some reason. That guy just rips on them constantly for 150 minutes. Being a Florida resident I'm forced to hear the Magic's feed unless it a national TV game. I really loathe that man.

  • I'm a big fan of defensive players, and Noah is my favourite player on the team. On the other hand I called Boozer and David Lee basically the same player before this season. I think if anything I'm biased the other way.

    The defense as a whole has held up despite Boozer's sometimes cringe-worthy individual displays, and this is without Noah on the court. Offensively Noah is certainly under-rated, but Boozer is one of the best scorers in the league, and a guy I don't think has reached the point of diminishing returns for more usage on this team. The team would be better if Rose took a couple fewer shots and Boozer a couple more.

    Boozer has won me over, I thought for sure Noah was the second best player on this team before the season started, but now I think the only way Noah can be second best player is if you rank Rose third.

    (Damn, MrHappy is going to have a field day taking that last quote out of context)

  • absolutely. The Celtic fans are diehard & will rally for a Rondo recovery

    need to keep voting Chicago fans, 3 times a day

    Also, I hear Bulls are planning a big voting promotion during the Heat game, the last game for arena voting. Wonder what's that all about.

  • Scapegoating Bogans? He really is killing the team. Plus/minus has limitations but in this case it tells the story. The Bulls strength is in their starters, Rose/Deng/Boozer/Noah are clearly their best players and the Bulls have only an average bench.

    So what does Bogans put up despite playing every one of his 18 minutes a game with starters? -3.3, on a team that overall puts up +5.3! So the team puts up +8.6 in the 30 minutes Bogans doesn't play for. The Heat only put up +9.1 for the entire game!

    Those numbers suggest if you replace Bogans with an average starter and this team is perhaps the best team in the league. Of course that's unrealistic because you'd have to trade something to get said average starter, but it does show exactly how far Bogans is dragging the team down.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Ugh we need an edit comment function because my post here fails at math, the team as a whole isn't -3.3 with Bogans on the floor, it's 3.3 points worse. :(

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    I can't believe what I am reading sometimes. Noah is absolutely NOT the 2nd best player on this team.

    Are we all forgetting the YEARS of no post play in Chicago? Boozer is the best offensive power forward in the NBA with the exeption of maybe Zach Randolph. Do you see some of the moves?

    The NBA and basketball in general is run by superstars. Superstars win games and take you over the top. Noah is a hustle guy, and Boozer scores buckets and is a great rebounder. Bottom line Boozer is easily the 2nd BEST on the Chicago Bulls.

  • In reply to Hendu0520:

    don't forget, defense counts too

  • In reply to Hendu0520:

    Hendu0520, where the hell did you emerge from. First of all don't insult people's intelligence of the game by terming the second best Center in the Eastern Conference
    a "hustle guy."
    That's the sort of shit morons like you have been spewing all over the place ever since Noah came into the NBA. By the way, explain to us what's a "hustle guy." You are the "hustle guy," coming on this blog and using derogatory terms to try to belittle one of the best young players in the game. Take your shit somewhere else.

  • In reply to Hendu0520:

    Whoa Boss calm down. First of all I love Noah but I am in reality. Just because he is the 2nd best center in the East doesn't make him better than Boozer! If Noah played in the mid 90's I would put him behind Rik Smits and he would probably have to be a power forward.

    Boozer is one of 4 or 5 players averaging 20/10 and has made multiple all star appearances. Noah once again will not be an all star.

    And no one is popping up to insult I have been on this post since it started so you go somewhere else with your anger.

  • In reply to Hendu0520:

    Hendu0520 Loves Noah! What a joke!
    You sound like Boozer's water boy. Are you?
    By the way, Rik Smits of the Indiana Pacers was one of the softest 7-footers to ever play in the NBA. So much for your so-called knowledge of the game and so-called years of following the game. You are a JOKE and a FAKE!!!

  • In reply to Hendu0520:

    By the way Hendu0520, I live in New York, Queens Village, New York, you must be a junkie,hiding somewhere in Brooklyn. Unlike you, I'm proud of Joakim Noah who was born here in New York and won back-to-back national championships as a college player, one of the few to hold that distinction.
    You are one of those stupid, jealous idiots who envy him his fame. You probably went to St. John's like that loser Mark Jackson who never cut it as a college player or a pro player.

  • Taj did fine off the bench last year, he actually put up better numbers than when he started.

    But I do think Thibs being so happy to play Deng minutes at PF makes Taj kind of redundant, I'd be happy with a PF/C rotation of Boozer/Noah/Deng/Asik/(vet like Thomas) going into next year if Taj can help net us a SG to get Bogans off the team.

  • Well it is a big game, people have been talking about the East as though it has a big 4, and when healthy I think that's fair. Without Noah though right now the Bulls are part of the middle 3 with the Hawks/Knicks, so teams are getting up to play like we're elite but we don't have the horses to play at that level.

  • Great points Doug.
    Because of the Noah draft pick, I'll always give John Paxson the benefit of the doubt when it comes to personnel matters. We've lived to see Paxson's sound judgement come to fruition. Noah was always top of the Bulls' list that draft year, and outside of Kevin Durant would have always been the best and safest choice ahead of even a Greg Oden who, despite size, was always a foul waiting to happen, brittle, and never stayed in college long enough to learn the big man's game.

    Noah spent three precious years in college, the first on the bench learning the big man's game from Billy Donovan, one of the best college coaches to come on the scene in a long while. The second and third years, winning back-to-back national championships against elete teams. The reason Thibs loves Noah is because he's well coached and has a grasp of fundamentals that are key to winning.
    This team, with Noah, Rose and Boozer at the helm, has a chance to go all the way this year,

  • Mitchell Wiggins, continue posting! You make this blog one of the best and you make reading your insightful comments a joy.

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