Bulls internally considering whether to enter the Melo sweepstakes

Per Mike McGraw:

It is widely believed Denver has insisted center Joakim Noah be included
in any Anthony deal, which the Bulls are reluctant to do. It would be
more difficult to trade Noah now that he's signed a long-term extension.
But the Bulls have gone 12-6 with Noah on the sideline with a thumb
injury.

The Bulls are discussing whether Anthony would give them a
better chance to win an NBA title, according to a league source. They
might also wait to see if Denver's price drops closer to the Feb. 24
trade deadline and the Nuggets will accept a package of Luol Deng, Taj
Gibson and first-round picks.

The implication is that the Bulls are considering putting Noah in the Carmelo deal.  I'm not certain if that's what McGraw is saying, but It should be obvious that they'd have already considered whether Carmelo would help the Bulls win a title.

Really, what is there to consider about that?   Carmelo has his warts, but he's a top 10 player in the NBA, of course he helps you win a title if you can get him at the right price.

The trick in having him actually help the team is the "right price" part of this.  You give up Deng and Noah, and I doubt the team is really advanced anywhere.   It adds scoring, which it does need, but it loses a ton of defense. 

If the price is Taj + Deng + picks, the Bulls should pull the trigger and run.   This package isn't quite so absurd as it seemed in the summer as Deng looks far more valuable now than he did then.   He's played well up to this point this season and doesn't appear to have any injury problems as he's logging near league high minutes.

As the issues with Deng's health become less of a factor and teams can just focus on his contract, it's not so bad.   The deferred money in the deal makes him cheaper for teams that are cash poor, in terms of real up front money, Deng's only making 10 million in the final year of his deal.   Obviously the deferred part comes due eventually, but with inflation and spreading it out, it doesn't sting nearly so much. 

The Bobcats pick still looks pretty good to me.   The Bobcats as a team are falling apart and looking to dump their best, older players.   They aren't going to get an elite pick in the draft this season unless they buck serious odds in the lottery which puts them in good position to get far worse again before getting better.  

Do the Bulls have enough to swing a deal without Noah?   I really doubt it, but around February 23rd, the Nuggets might get a whole heck of a lot more desperate.

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  • Since I am never good with player salaries, it seems like with this deal, Chicago would have problems re-signing Derrick Rose for the max. Would be great if someone could give me some input here. The last thing you want to do is let Derrick Rose go to free agency, although that seems like an impossibility with him being a homer.

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    Rose will be franchised i.e. the Bulls will pay him even if they are over the cap. I wouldn't think Reinsdorf will not pay him his market rate but at what cost? The problem or question many people have with Reinsdorf is whether he is willing to pay the luxury tax when he pays Rose. If the Bulls go out in the second round this year and next...will Reinsdorf take on a player like Melo(not the talent but the salary) and other players who help win a championship but have limited skills(Korver, Brewer kind of players)like Boston did with Jermaine O'Neal that will make him pay luxury tax.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Not to mention, if it were to happen (DOUBTFUL) that the Bulls could land Melo while still holding onto Boozer and Noah, the cash they'd take in from other revenue streams (Melo jerseys, ads, etc) would probably go a ways toward offsetting the luxury tax.

  • In reply to saigman:

    Reinsdorf said....if the Bulls have a legit title contending team, then he will pay into the luxury.

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    The thing is all the ESPN analysts as usual are talking about NY and other places but just don't even mention Chicago as a viable place for Melo. They might be right but in this twitter era....even a comment(loud thinking)becomes an option. So, basically we just don't know and especially after the LeBron experience...it is impossible to trust any sources

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Exactly.....espn talks about NEW YORK ALL THE TIME! there bias

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    I think we are in a good position no matter what happens. If we do find a third team or Denver takes our deal of Deng/Taj/picks. In that scenario we get a superstar player and add him to a team with Rose, Noah, and Boozer. If we don't get Melo then that's fine too. We already have a good team and we should move on and make it better by looking for that SG we really need. Nobody really knows how this is going to turn out just like when all the stuff with Lebron and Wade happened, but it will be interesting to see what happens. I'm hoping we will know by the trade deadline.

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    One one hand I feel like Deng+Taj+Picks is a ridiculous steal for us and the Nuggets would be dumb to even consider the offer. I dont think they go near that deal with a 90 foot pole.

    On the other hand, I think we can make an offer better than NY is willing to make and maybe Denver hates them so much that they deal with us becuase we offer them the best deal of the two. NY doesnt have picks and the ones they get wont be good. They arent trading Danillo or Fields and i highly doubt Douglass and Chandler look better on paper than Taj and Deng.

    Do you really think we have a shot Doug? Like in your honest heart without offering in Noah?

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    I read somewhere that the Knicks are considering the possibility that if Dwight Howard actually becomes a free agent in 2012 that they would rather have him than Anthony.
    Their advantage now is that Melo would sign an extension with them now, but at what price?
    Waiting for Free Agency may be the preferable choice for NY.

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    The Bulls won't add Noah(btw, i agree) so Melo is pretty much a pipedream for the Bulls. Melo is going to be a Knick and the Nuggets is just going to have to accept that fact, take Galo and Chandler, and try to dump as much salary on the Knicks as possible.

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    Rose and Noah are untouchaBULLS! :-)
    So if Deng, Gibson, pick(s), maybe JJ who doesn't ever play anyways doesn't get us Melo...then we will keep the team we have and if Melo goes to NJ and they send them a bunch of SGs then we can deal with Denver to try to get Affalo, Morrow (NJ), or a remote chance to get JR Smith (but he was a Bull at least for a lil bit but could be a team cancer...aka old Jail blazers of years back).

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    Nobody knows what the new CBA will be so planning things salary wise is pretty much impossible right now. Under current luxury tax rules we'd probably struggle to stay under with the extra 7 or so million Melo would be making over Deng. Whether that applies under new rules who knows.

  • How would the Bulls lineup look if they were able to get Melo for Deng, Taj, and picks? Rose, Bogans, Melo at the 3?, Boozer, Noah? I know Melo is a high enough scorer to play the 3, but wouldn't he be a bit slow? Or does he play the 3 in Denver? I still think he's going to NY...

  • In reply to bpmueller:

    Slow for the 3? Did you think he played center for the Nuggets or something?

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    loooll

  • In reply to bpmueller:

    I thought he played point guard, how would he back up D-Rose?

  • In reply to bpmueller:

    Are you a spammer or just retarded. Lol

  • In reply to mdot1986:

    Melo is very quick and light on his feet. Just have Brewer or Korver start. And depending on the deal the Bulls might be able to get Jr Smith as well. He could start or be a 6th man for us off the bench.

  • It is impossible to get rid of Noah. They will just not be able to compete against Boston, Lakers, Orlando without length.
    The only player who is probably giving the Bulls FO second thoughts about Noah is Nene..
    There has not been much discussion about him....his health, contract, age, skill set,energy,rebounding and defense, how he plays against elite centers in meaningful games etc..
    We know what Noah can do but is Nene a realistic replacement...like how Miami thinks Dampier, Ilgauskas, Magloire, Anthony are all good but Noah will eat them alive in a playoff series one-on-one and LeBron, Bosh will be busy helping them against Noah. But can Nene do that?

  • Mitchell,

    I think I would definitely do this. You would have Noah down low taking care of the defense and our PF defense now isnt all that great when Boozer is out there anyway. Yes, you would lose Gibson but he is definitely replaceable. You are getting a superstar who would be ablee

  • able* (sorry I'm on a mobile) to match up to LeBron I. The playoffs. I also hate losing Brewer for his defense and spark off the bench but if this deal is present and you dont have to give up Noah then you have to do it.

  • able* (sorry I'm on a mobile) to match up to LeBron I. The playoffs. I also hate losing Brewer for his defense and spark off the bench but if this deal is present and you dont have to give up Noah then you have to do it.

  • Able* to match up to LeBron in the playoffs. I would hate to lose brewer for his defense and spark off the bench but if this deal presents itself and you dont have to give up Noah, you definitely do this deal.

  • Sorry for the repeated posts. My mobile is being weird

  • Maybe it would depend on what we throw in with Noah.

    Nene
    Boozer
    Melo
    ?
    Rose

    Who else would we give up for Denver to offer Nene. How would our team look and could we contend for a championship if we give up way too much?

  • Maybe it would depend on what we throw in with Noah.

    Nene
    Boozer
    Melo
    ?
    Rose

    Who else would we give up for Denver to offer Nene. How would our team look and could we contend for a championship if we give up way too much?

  • What do you guys think about this trade?

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=65fb67e

  • What do you guys think about this trade?

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=65fb67e

  • In reply to calle3:

    I dont think Denver would want any of those players maybe outside of Taj.

  • In reply to Vedo:

    If they want Noah, why wouldn't they want Varejao? (who's cheaper) They're gonna lose Nene and Martin in free agency why not get players to replace them?

  • In reply to Vedo:

    I really think Melo should consider the Clippers...that team would be dangerous Davis(Bledsoe), Gordon, Melo, Griffin, Jordan.

  • In reply to Vedo:

    I think it's time to speak frankly : I'm ok to deal noah for Melo.

    For sure we loose rebounds and defense and then what ?? it isn't impossible for the bulls to draft in june a tall center just for defense and rebound whereas a player like Melo isn't easy to get via trade or draft. This is the last chance for bulls to serioulsy improve this team. Maybe we won't be able to win a title this year, but look further. A player like Melo is much hard to find than a player like Noah.
    Moreover, since noah is injured, we haven't lost so much defense. We have lost his energy for sure but thomas has filled his role pretty well(Center for D).
    If we don't get Melo, miami gonna kick our ass the next five years(like San antonio used to beat phoenix everytime in playoff). to beat heat, u need a big three, that's it.
    iF WE DON'T GET mELO, it's like we're giving NY a gift in other words we're creating another super oppenent(NY will be so good with Melo, stood and felton), let's not make it happens. If we have melo, with Thibs' D we could beat heat and LA the next years. Noah isn't irreplaceable. Add a talent(Melo), think later.

  • In reply to calle3:

    I think the Nuggets and Sixers wouldn't touch that deal. I don't think the Nuggets get enough value for Melo, and the Sixers will more than likely reject Deng's contract.

  • In reply to JimmyBulls:

    But Iggy's contract is worse than Deng's. Phillys been playing well without Iggy, so they'll save some money and get Deng who does the same thing Iggy does but jus a lil bit better. Once they get rid of him they can focus on giving the team to Evan Turner because they play the same position.

    And Denver's not gonna get enough value regardless of who they trade with.

  • In reply to calle3:

    If the Bulls are going to do a 3 way trade with Denver...then they have to find a big contract which Denver likes and that 3rd team liking/needing Deng...That's the big million or 11 million dollar question?
    Who are they?
    1. Igoudala for Sixers
    2. Kamen for Clippers
    3. Josh Smith ...maybe from Atlanta
    4. Batum + Miller ...maybe from Portland
    5. Varejao + cap space from Cleveland(maybe Gilbert wants to do it just to screw LeBron)
    6. Butler from Dallas(if Melo doesn't want to go to Dallas or they don't want to give up Beaubois)

  • In reply to calle3:

    If the Sixers get rid of Iggy, it's going to be for salary relief. There is no reason for those guys to take Deng, and Turner looks like a prospect that's going to take a year or two to fully develop into a guy that's ready to carry a team. If he ever develops into that type of player.

    There is no reason for the Nuggets to accept that deal either. They would be better off getting Chandler and Gallinari from the Knicks. Ultimately, that's what I think they will do. Here is a huge deal that would send Melo to the Knicks.

    Knicks: Anthony, Harrington, Anderson, Balkman, and Smith
    Nuggets: Gallinari, Chandler, Randolph, Mozgov, Azubuike, Curry, Mason, Walker, Rautins, and Williams

    The Knicks get Melo, and the Nuggets get two good young rotation players, young players that could be traded for picks, expirings, and they get to unload two long term deals on the Knicks.

  • In reply to calle3:

    One thing going against/for renting Melo is the franchising aspect in the new CBA. So, if Houston or Dallas gets Melo now...they can just franchise him and he is stuck there even if he doesn't want to sign long term..Any thoughts?

  • In reply to calle3:

    It's not ridiculous at all. 76ers are one of the teams out there that repeatedly have expressed interest in Luol Deng. They like the way he plays. Whether or not they would pull the trigger is a different story.

  • I've always contended that the only way the bulls include Noah in a Melo deal is if they get a real center back, Nene would be about the best that we could hope for.

    WE could get someone else from a third team taking Deng from the Bulls(Tyson Chandler from Dallas, perhaps), but I am not sure that there is a realistic guy actually available.

    In any event, I don't see the Bulls getting Melo without a major multi-team, complicated trade.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    There's likely too much salary to take back Melo and Nene or Melo and Chandler for it to be reasonably constructed.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Seeing Chandler play yesterday, I doubt Cuban will let him go unless he is getting Melo to Dallas. Chandler is a good fit with Nowitzki.
    What do you think the downside of getting Nene over Noah not just for one/two years but for 4/5 years?

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    as it was discussed on last evenings thread, moving Boozer for Melo makes the most sense for the Bulls financially and team continuity

  • You are essentially asking Reisndorf to pay over $110 million dollars for Melo. Unless the Bulls think that they can move Harrington down the road, I don't see Reinsdorf spending that kind of cash.

    But since it is not my money, I like your thought process on this one, minus the bogans part of course.

  • ok our big 3 will be less good for this year. but later, it is not that difficult to replace noah, at least we will have a base(rose-boozer-noah) then improve around. But with the current team, we still loose against miami. and what's room for improvement ?? just having a good team Which will never reach finals ??

  • In reply to deewaves:

    By the time you find a good, experienced center to the level of Noah, Bynum ....Boozer will be old...
    There is no way Melo,Rose and Boozer are beating LeBron,Wade and Bosh in the next 4/5 years except for a few games or Rose gets to the stratosphere or one of the Miami trio get hurt(less unlikely compared to Boozer getting hurt)...
    Kobe couldn't win without Gasol, Pierce couldn't win without Garnett...basically interior defense..

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    first it wont take 5 years to replace noah, just a simple draft. ok let's supose u're right, that There is no way Melo,Rose and Boozer are beating LeBron,Wade and Bosh. Ok and what are going to do ?? just stand there and watching ? tell me ur plan after this year, we can't even have smith or mayo. Once rose is signed at the end the year what's next ???
    that's why i prefer have my big 3 and Thibs Defense, it won't be so hard to get someone like dalembert, okafor, perkins, chandler ... of course they aren't noah but these players can do better job than thomas (most of all when u realize that our defense isn't so bad with thomas playing C)

  • In reply to deewaves:

    It has been discussed before that the Bulls are patient for the SG...
    1. What happens at the trade deadline when somebody we don't expect becomes available
    2. How the new CBA will impact? What if teams have to cut contracts? Who becomes available then who is a better fit for the Bulls.

    All the Centers you mention are not as good as Noah(age wise, contract wise)...and not sure we will get them easily(Perkins --Boston, NY..., Chandler-- Dallas).
    The main thing is it is easier to find a starting SG(or the type the Bulls need) then finding a Center...and I don't know who it is right now...I am not that smart.

  • You are high if you think one draft can get you a Joakim Noah in any given year. Go back and look at the 2007 draft and find me a big man like Joakim in that draft. I think Yi, Oden, and Spencer Hawes went before Noah in that draft. And they are great! Horford is good, but even he cant rebound and play defense like Noah.

  • There are reports that the Raptors are going to buy-out Stojakovic. Does the Bulls have any room under the cap to sign him and if so, should they?

  • +2

  • I don't really see when you'd play Peja that you couldn't just play Korver instead. I don't think you'd want them both on the court at the same time, so I don't really see the point.

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