Bulls Beat #175 - Just Dance!

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Bulls Beat #175 - Just Dance!

The bulls finish off an undefeated week including a marquee win against the Orlando Magic. The schedule is about to get tough though, and the Bulls seeding will depend on what they do over the next 18 games. Derrick Rose is voted in as an all-star starter, but he says he won't dance. Dwight Howard has some thoughts on that. I also discuss the possibilities of a trade to improve the team and where the Bulls can head this season.

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  • I hope Bulls record improves in the next several games and hand Thibs All_Star coaching. I would like to see an All-Star game when east would put on a defensive clinic holding east to 37% shooting and 75 points for a 85-75 grind out win. I want fans to say "what the hell was that" after the game.

  • In reply to adocarbog:

    That would be epic, but I think even if the Bulls went undefeated between now and the all-star break (highly unlikely with their schedule btw), that they still wouldn't make up enough ground on Boston.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Exactly... I haven't listened to the podcast yet but I do agree with you on the Bulls not gaining too much ground on Boston. They seem determined to have the best record in the east come playoff time, especially over the Lakers cause home court has been the difference in the two finals series between the two. The Spurs who have the best record in the league Imo will not beat the Lakers in a series cause I'm sure Phil will have his team ready, too much talent, depth, and size on the Lakers team.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    if howard ends up anywhere out of orlando its gonna be LA, dont know how but theyll pull it off, they've done it with chamberlain, jabbar, shaq and gasol.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    I think it's unlikely. They won't have cap room or players to offer in trade, so they won't have the threat at signing him outright or anything to give up in a S&T. It'd also be a huge leap of faith for Dwight because they have zero young talent to put around him.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    NEW BULLS SG:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT8lSOKL3yM

    He just got traded to the Iowa Energy (the Bulls affiate) and he's playing well.

    I wouldn't be shocked to see this kid get signed by the Bulls' brass.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Normally don't post on here, but I watched that video and I would definitely bring him up move Bogans down in the rotation and start Brewer. He can grasp the offense as the season continues. Looks like he plays alert like Brewer on defense.

  • In reply to renzo3rd:

    Sign him up! Then sign a shooting coach & a dribbling coach to work with him.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Remember, John Lucas was a D League star. And he is not good enough to make an impact in the NBA. There might? be two? players in the D League that could give your team 8 average minutes off the bench. Even the Cavaliers won't raid the D League for talent, and they are a D League affiliate.

  • In reply to KingOfCrumbs:

    no I agree, I just enjoy advocating siging vitually anyone off the street to take Bogans' job. and I like saying "sign 'em up!"

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Doug, I really think J.R Smith would be a perfect fit basketball wise. I know he's a bit of a head case, but I feel he fit's the Bulls needs better than anyone else out there including Courtney Lee. J.R can shoot the 3 well, he's athletic, and he can defend. Plus, Thibs is a no nonsense coach so I don't think he'll come here with a ridculous attitude. What are your thoughs?

  • In reply to JordanFanatic:

    I think you're selling his attitude problems a bit short if you think he comes here with a good attitude just because of Thibodeau.

    Skillswise he's not bad, and the Bulls could actually afford a guy who's a chucker a bit because of their lack of other offense at times.

    I'd take Smith, but there's not really a great trade to get him. Denver wants to shed salary, we can't get Smith and help Denver do that, so it'd take a 3rd team.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I would like JR Smith just to see him dunk like a greek god every 5 games or so.

  • In reply to JordanFanatic:

    Courtney Lee is a better fit than JR. The Bulls are not about flash, but wins. I believe Lee is the better fit to this Bulls squad than OJ or JR. The coaching staff loves Lee, and I can assure that if the Bulls do acquire a SG, it'll be Lee. He's a lot cheaper to get as well, and the Bulls don't sacrifice their team chemistry.

    JJ & a 1st for Lee

  • In reply to JordanFanatic:

    great podcast Doug. Ive been listening since before we drafted Rose and Im so happy your back to once a week!

    especially because the local media especially the radio stations I feel is sort of weak in terms "basketball guys". So this is definitely a treat.

  • In reply to JordanFanatic:

    I actually like Iguadala, although he is not a great shooter. Pretty good defender, hes a big 6-6. I think he would thrive in a situation where he doesnt have to lead, because frankly he blows as a leader. I think he could provide value to the bulls with his slashing, although he does take too many jumpers if you look at his stats. Occasionally he does light it up and really play like a star. When he does go big hes outstanding. Inconsistent he may be, defenders will remain aware of him.

    So All that being said, and im sure this has been discussed here before. I must ask how out of the question is getting Hinrich back? I know we'd have to come off a lot more than we got for him (Vladimir Veremeenko) or (Nothing). I mean it would essentially be like admitting a mistake, although i think it was the right move at the time. That being said I think we have some pieces or picks Washington might want and it may even be a good look for JJ. But I dunno.

    I was not crazy bout Hinrich when he wa here. But he would work Unless you think we should go for a more athletic type player. Although Iggy has more size. Not interested in Lee or Smith, would rather get a better value 2 over those guys. Affolo would be great and he's cheap but I dont see Denver's motivation in trading him.

    This being said im not too picky, but one thing that really makes me love the idea of Hinrich is team chemistry. Which I generally think is a load of crap, I mean I always kinda just saw it as a catch phrase. This bulls team has me buying into it team chemistry, I think Noah and Rose have helped establish a culture that is pervasive. And 2 guards tend to be the wide recievers of the NBA when it comes to chemistry and what not. So I see Hinrich as a seemless "addition".

    Long Time listener first time caller, so dont pound me too hard if you find anything I said retarded.

  • In reply to withtheface:

    Nevermind Bulls cant require Hinrich until a year from when the original trade went down.

  • In reply to withtheface:

    Also like your wide receiver/ 2 guard analogy.

  • In reply to withtheface:

    I normally agree with you about chemistry. Highly over rated. Coming out of camp everybody loves each other. Also when a team is winning. But I truly believe that DRose and Noah are the identity of this team and there is a legit chemistry. I was worried about Boozer showboating, but he's come around to recognizing that in the least this is DRoses team. And it's apparent the relationship that DRose has with Noah

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    It souls like you're star gazing Doug when it cones to Miami. The Heat would not beat Boston IMO in a seven game series. I'm not writing off Miami cause it is easy to get caught up in the hype with that team but I see them missing too many pieces at key positions as to where the depth of the Celtic would wear the Heat down. Now next year is the year that everyone will need to worry about Miami cause they will continue to get free agents that want to be there which is why I think the Bulls need to get creative and try to bring in some good players as needed. Rose in the long run will eventually have to help to recruit players that will make the Bulls a better team if he wants to contend for championships.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Please excuse mobile phone typing errors.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Doug, you mentioned it might take 2 draft picks to get C. Lee, do you think our own '11 & '13 would be enough? Or do you think Charlotte or Taj would need to be in play?

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I would think our 11 and 13 should be enough, but you have to be awfully confident Lee is the answer to do that.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I think if JJ does well in the D-League and boost up his value, the Bulls can trade him to Houston along with the Bulls 1st for Lee. I think that should be enough.

  • In reply to BullsFTW:

    Courtney Lee is a perfect fit for the starting line-up. He can shoot, create, and defend. He's a great 4th or 5th option and a complementary back-court partner next to Rose.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    As a Heat fan, I actually agree with everything you said. As a realist, I think the Heat will have trouble getting by a healthy Celtics team this year, because of Boston's depth and motivation. Like you said, next year will be Miami's year. I also agree that Derrick Rose needs to become more of a recruiter. Bulls fans don't talk about it, but I think it's critical for them.

  • In reply to RichG:

    We don't need Rose to recruit, we can win without the prima donnas. Its a moot point however, b/c the last shot we had a free agency for maybe the next 10 years was last summer. Its Paxons & Formans job to recruit & add talent anyways.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Except for Boozer, those other free agent signings by the Bulls were short term deals. Bulls will have another shot at free agency while Rose is still in his prime. Why in the world wouldn't you want your best player to help recruit?

  • In reply to RichG:

    I want him to be the alpha dog. By all means recruit role players that fit in. If the BUlls can make a play for Howard, recruit him, but other than that, ehh. The Bulls already have their core. Even when Boozer comes off the books, they will at or above the cap. Free agency is over.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Most importantly though, I think Rose is good enough to win without another superstar

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I think we need another star and I like the combo the Bulls are going with as the big three. The offense of Boozer and defense of Noah.
    The biggest thing about the Heat or the Bulls is how the new CBA happens. If there are a lot of good players(role players such as Korver)become available at a cheap price, then Miami and Chicago will do great..

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    J.R. Smith would be a great fit but some fans might not want him cause he's not a "good guy" which thoughts like that are ludacris cause the guy has talent and I believe his attitude could be coached as well by Thibs. He would be a very good pick up if the Bulls could pull that trade off.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    A lot of people assume JR Smith wouldn't fit because he's had a history of off-the-court issues and feuding with coaches and Thibs seems like such a no-nonsense throw-back type of coach. But I think with a star of Rose's caliber running the show it might not be the problem some assume. From all accounts Thibs gives his guys the green light to shoot and Rose would make sure Smith got his touches. So as long as JR bought into the defensive system and didn't cause trouble in the locker room, he'd be a perfect fit if the Bulls could get him in a reasonable deal.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Doug, just a few comments about this week's Bulls Beat. It's highly unlikely Orlando would sign-and-trade Dwight Howard within the Eastern Conference. However, Noah did go to college in Gainsville, 1 hour outside of Orlando. Hypothetically, Heat could offer Bosh or Wade in sign-and-trade for Howard. Not likely to happen though.

    As for Heat and Bulls possibly being 100% healthy for their next 2 meetings, it's not going to happen. Don't forget Udonis Haslem is still out for another 8 weeks or so.

  • In reply to RichG:

    It'd be interesting to see how Orlando would value a wade or Bosh offer. Bosh looks like a guy who may not be worth his pay check and Wade will be quite a bit older, but you're right, that could be awfully compelling.

    A Dwight/Bron duo would terrorize the league.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    If it were to happen (again, highly unlikely), it would be next year, so Wade would just be 1 year older. I know business is business, but I just couldn't see Riley doing that to Wade. Without Wade, there never would've been a Lebron and Bosh. Being banished to Orlando without Howard being there would be cruel and unusual punishment.

  • In reply to RichG:

    Riley doesn't give a **** about loyalty, he wants to win

  • In reply to RichG:

    If the Heat flame out before the finals the next 2 years, there is a great chance of Wade or Bosh being traded. But as somebody said earlier, the Heat have a great chance next season of winning it all if healthy.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    If the Heat had Bosh/Dwight/Bron there would be a minimum 7 peat.

  • In reply to RichG:

    If Orland wouldnt trade within the East then they surely wouldnt trde within the division.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    This is Rose team no matter who they bring in so you can forget about another player coming in and taking over. He will eventually need another very good or all star player to put the Bulls over the top, he can't do it alone.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    He's not doing it alone, he's already got 3 other potential all-stars he's playing with. He just needs 1 more shooter. And its not a given that someone they bring in wouldn't disrupt their chemisty/teamwork

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Pretty sure Noah actually already has the cast off, at least it looked like he didn't have it anymore at the Indiana game. I still think the coaches don't let him back until after the all star break.

    As far as trades go, I think you have to look at where the team is. The defense is so good and all the team needs is that little offensive boost. Noah will provide some of it, the SG doesn't have to be super duper awesome to provide the sort of boost we need, just be able to hit some shots that Bogans fails at. The Bulls are less than 1.5 points behind the league leading teams in point differential, the team is really close. Even a guy like Afflalo is IMO that much of an upgrade over Bogans that he'd catapult the Bulls into best team in the league status.

    So I say give up the picks to get someone. You also have to weigh the future risk of the new CBA, the MLE may well be dead and hence a trade might be the only way to improve the team. So if a trade comes along where you don't have to give up key rotation players, even if the Bulls pay slightly above value, I think you have to get it done.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    I didn't remember seeing him in the Indiana game, but I thought I saw him with it on in the Orlando game.

    The problem with trading the picks is that's all your currency to get a player later. Say you can get Iguodala next year for Expirings and picks, but you dont' have the picks anymore.

    Is getting Courtney Lee now worth giving up that potential trade later?

    I guess it depends if ownership is willing to even make that type of trade though due to the salary concerns. I think the Bulls could realistically add Iguodala via trade next year if they wanted, and a Rose, Iggy, Deng, Boozer, Noah core with Korver, Gibson, Asik, MLE/LLE/VEt Min PG would legitimately compete for the best team in the league.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Well my stance only waiting to rob someone has changed a bit since I now think the Bulls can be the best team in the league THIS year if they upgrade the SG position for picks only. Why wait for something that might happen next year when there might not even be a season to win?

    I guess it depends how good you think the players in question are. I wouldn't for Lee, I don't think he's an upgrade over just not playing Bogans. I would for Afflalo. I realise I'm probably higher on Afflalo and lower on Lee than a lot of people though.

    For an Iggy trade to work you'd have to send out 10.8 million salary. Looks like you're sending Brewer/Watson/JJ/Bogans to do it, which gets difficult roster spot wise for the 76ers (yeah you can send 3 million then cut JJ/Bogans, but you have to have the spots open to start with I believe). Also it implies we pick up Bogans' option (please no).

    That's without even considering if the 76ers wanted to Dump Iggy they could probably do so right now for a trade exception (way better financially than waiting a year and getting expirings) with better picks than ours thrown in.

    I just don't see Iggy as being that realistic a chance that I'd hold off sending the picks out for a SG now.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Is Igoudala a better version of Ronnie Brewer? If he is a consistent shooter, yes!. But, he will help Rose in ball handling, defense etc...
    Or maybe he gets better looks with Rose, Boozer drawing defenders and has better luck with his offense not being the 1st or 2nd option as in Philadelphia. My bet is the Bulls are getting somebody like Anthony Parker(cheap and efficient)for now and try to figure out the best option after the new CBA.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Never been a big fan of Iguodala. Strikes me more as an actor or overhyped player. Always suspicious of players who target a team and wants to be traded there badly. By the way, is he from the Chicago area?

  • In reply to Normie:

    If memory serves correct, I believe he is from Springfield. So most likely grew up a bulls fan. Also probably has friends and family in the area.

  • In reply to Normie:

    I think Iggy is a lot like Deng, he's good at a lot of things without being really great at any of them. That makes him a pretty bad player to build around, but a very good complimentary piece.

    If you get him without giving up any starters he's the 3/4 option with Deng. He'd be awesome in that role, since even playing as a first/second option he's been reasonably efficient at it (and would be very efficient if you could convince him to stop shooting threes which he sucks at). He also has enough ability to create for himself/others that you could have whatever cheap scrub you want for backup point guard and just run Iggy next to him for the 10 or so minutes while Rose sits and it'd work OK.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    I keep thinking about your comment the other day. Once Melo is traded, then guys will be moved all over the place.
    hypothetically, who do you think the 76ers would want that the Bulls could sensibly trade. You think they'd want Korver back? Could we afford to lose him?

  • In reply to Waldock:

    I don't really see any way Iggy ends up on the Bulls this deadline. The Bulls only have guys with another year left on their deals. If the 76ers want to move him, a team that can offer immediate salary relief through a trade exception have a huge advantage.

  • In reply to Waldock:

    Doug, I think you may have gotten some bad info on the NBA's drug testing policies. For SPEDs it only takes one failed test to get a 10 game suspension, not five. So to say that OJ Mayo failed that test multiple times is not accurate. It does take three failures for a five game marijuana suspension to take place. Which is awfully lenient.

  • In reply to chibullsareback:

    Lenient? Who cares if they smoke dope. Weed is not a performance enhancer. In the traditional sense anyways.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    It is lenient compared to a lot of sports that have a one strike you're out policy even on recreational drugs.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    As usual (and by the way...this is my first time posting over here) excellent podcast. My single argument was that you didn't talk about Rose's ulcer problem.

    I strongly feel that if the Bulls were to somehow upgrade the SG position then Rose won't feel like he has to do quite as much which resulted in his FG% taking a bit of a nosedive.

    For all of our sakes....let us all hope that Rose don't get hurt and end up missing a significant amount of time.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Looks like the loss to the Bulls was too much for him, O'brein apparently out as Pacers coach

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Deng, Rose and Boozer -- The coach killers..

    I wonder how many coaches will get fired because of Rose.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Probably a lot in the central division. I'd put the over/under during Rose's career at 20

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    On the Bulls being a slow down team: there was an article recently that broke down teams by offensive and defensive pace, and the Bulls were one of the slowest defensive teams in the league, they're excellent at making the opposition use the clock. On offense they're actually still playing above average pace.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    excellent point. Most stats about pace neglect the defense's impact

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Do you have a link to that article? That sounds really interesting.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/1/24/1952725/nba-pace-speed-spurs-suns-knicks

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    The article doesn't break it down pre/post Noah going out, and the Bulls are only a little above average, so are probably a bit on the slow side with Thomas. But I do think the basic point about the Bulls being a slow down team mostly on defense probably still holds. The Bulls really seem to force a lot of long possessions where teams struggle to get a good shot.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    After reading that, its real puzzling why San Antonio ranks as the fastest tempo on the defensive end

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Early reports on Taj's painful ankle injury are positive. He will likely play against the Clippers.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Nice to get the 3 days off right at this point.

  • In reply to RichG:

    Bulls won't be under the cap even when those guys come off the books. They won' thave cap room again in the Rose era most likely.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    We'll find out in a few months! It will be interesting to see what flexibility they have to add pieces after the new CBA.

  • In reply to adocarbog:

    How increditably awsome would it be to have Dwight Howard as a Bull??!! I agree with you Doug, I would also send Boozer and Noah to Orlando in a sign and trade with Orlando for Howard. Our 5 position would be solidified for years to come! In a way I would like to keep Noah to back-up Howard, but if I had to choose I would definately D.Howard. Teams like The Celtics, Lakers, and the TrailBlazres wouldn't be able to bully the Bulls in paint with all of their lenght and depth. I won't hold my breath for that transaction, but it's fun imagine what it would be like.

  • In reply to JordanFanatic:

    JordanFanatic, you're an idiot!

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