Good feelings from road trip don't last long as Bulls annihilated by Magic

Well, it had to happen eventually.   A team doesn't play a full season in this league without throwing up a complete clunker where they don't even compete.   There were a lot of things that could have been going on in this game.  

First and foremost, the Magic are awesome.   Team's aren't beating the Magic without bringing their 'A' game, and if the Magic also bring their 'A' game like last night, then it's going to be tough to win no matter how you play.

Second, you wonder if the team came out with some sense of complacency after having a pretty good road trip.  All the fans and media were quick to point out how great the road trip is and while Joakim Noah termed the expectations for the Bulls 'poison', you wonder if sub consciously it started to sink in a bit around the team.

Next, Carlos Boozer's return obviously changes up the rotations and the style of play.   In the long run, this is a good thing, but in the short run it forces everyone to refigure out their role, play with different people, at different times, in a different style.

How do you feel Noah vs Howard went in this game?

It's an interesting discussion:
Howard 13 points on 5/12 shooting, four assists, three turnovers offensively.
Noah 16 points on 6/11 shooting, four assists, no turnovers offensively.
They each had one block.

Sounds like Joakim Noah won the battle doesn't it?
Did I forget to mention Dwight Howard had 12 rebounds and Joakim Noah had none?

4 of those rebounds were offensive and the results of them were largely represented in Howard's points, so to give him more credit for them is almost double counting in a way.   The real difference though that Noah was putting in so much work to keep Howard off the glass that the he couldn't get on it himself.

On the defensive end he remained grounded trying to keep his body into Howard's to keep him off the glass.  Despite Howard's rebounding totals, this was fairly successful, most of Howard's rebounds came when Noah went to help or when Howard was defended by someone else.   The problem was that when Noah wasn't skying for rebounds because he was bodied on Howard, the Bulls didn't box out everyone else.

Howard created so much pressure on the Bulls offense with his ability to get position that he also created most of the Magic's open three point shots, even when he wasn't directly passing the ball or even touching the ball.   Though the numbers didn't entirely tell the story, Howard dominated the game. 

Carlos Boozer will get better, but struggled in this one. 

With Noah locked into Howard and using all his strength to try and keep Howard off the glass, the Bulls needed their PF to step up and grab all those boards while Noah was just boxing ou Howard.   Carlos Boozer didn't do that (neither did Taj Gibson for that matter).  

He had a matchup of finesse vs power, and finesse won out.   Boozer struggled to stay with Lewis on the perimeter, often cheating up to help on Howard but unable to get back which allowed Lewis to go 3/5 from behind the arc.   The unfortunate thing is that with all the cheating he was around the hoop enough to help the rebounding battle but didn't.

On the offensive end, he was a bit too rusty to punish Lewis with his power and strength.   It's a matchup that I expect Boozer to win next time the team's meet, but unsurprisingly Boozer struggled in his first game this season.

Luol Deng let Carter get too many easy points.

Deng's usually a great system defender, rebounder, and low mistake type of player.   However, he let Carter get slip past him for multiple offensive rebounds and tip ins to get easy points early.  

While ultimately, the Bulls had a complete breakdown everywhere, Deng was another guy who really needed to step up and contain his man on the glass and help the Bulls with his own rebounding, but he really failed to do so.

He also failed to contribute much offensively going only 2/8 from the field though at least one of his makes was a three.

Derrick Rose had his moments, but it wasn't enough.

Early on, Rose kept hitting shots to keep the Bulls in the game.  Through one quarter, the game was close enough that the Bulls were still right there, largely because Rose carried the team.   However, he couldn't keep it up all game long, and seemed to lose interest in really forcing the issue when the Bulls were down by a huge margin.

Given the fact that Howard's knocked Rose out of the game twice, I'm not all that disappointed that Rose didn't go nuts throwing his body around with a 20 point deficit against the Magic in the late 3rd and 4th quarter though.

Tom Thibodeau went back to the hockey line theory of coaching

This was one of the key points of the game.   The Bulls are down by 6.  Dwight Howard goes to the bench.   Tom Thibodeau comes out with five bench players.   Taj Gibson, Omer Asik, Ronnie Brewer, Kyle Korver, and C.J. Watson.   The lineup goes down by 5 points over four minutes (it was worse at times).   

At a point where you have a chance to climb back in the game, why go full on bench?    I was highly critical of this substitution as the Bulls were getting smeared by doing it earlier in the season, and Thibodeau responded by keeping Noah, Rose, or Deng on the floor at all times for the most part.   A plan which was highly successful.

Now if the Bulls had kept one of those guys in the game here, would it have made a difference?   At this point, the game is still very winnable, and with Howard out, it was a chance for the team to make some hay and get it close again.   However, instead they fall down by even more, and when both teams go back to the starters, Orlando's starters win again.  

Now the Bulls are down by an insurmountable lead and basically quit the game.   If the Bulls had found a way to capitalize here, and instead go +5, then they'd have been sitting around a 10 point deficit at the half, they came out strong in the second half, and the game would have had an entirely different complexion.  

Granted, it's way too much to say the Bulls would have won given how poorly they played the rest of the game, but the pressure and momentum would have been entirely different, and the game really turned from winnable to out of hand largely because of this stretch.

In defense of the five bench man lineup, Gibson was recently starting, and Brewer probably should be starting.   Still, I think in the long run Deng, Boozer, Rose, or Noah should always stay on the court.

They tried the "You're our only hope James Johnson" substitution a bit too late.

I say it in jest, but have you noticed James Johnson has a Pargo like role for the team?   We're screwed, throw out James Johnson and hope for something good.   Then something good happened twice to help the Bulls win.   Johnson did provide a lot of energy and positive play, but he came in the fourth with the game was already decided.

I like that he played well, and I think you can make a case that Bogans should just not play while Johnson steals all his minutes, but Johnson playing better almost mucks up your rotation more as it's one more guy off the bench to go to, but who has no real minutes available.

Final thoughts
Every team has some dud games, and this was the Bulls first this season.  However, you really don't like to see them in games that you're hoping for a statement game.   I'd imagine that Tom Thibodeau is going to have some choice words to the team.


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  • I figured the Bulls would have a bad game like this one after the long road trip, but losing by almost 30 is ridiculous and Noah not having any rebounds is bad as well.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    yes you called it

  • It really seemed like early on we needed to almost force the issue and get Boozer more touches, which we failed to do. It felt like we were passing it around amongst our 4 other starters, none of them had a good feel for how to get the ball to Boozer in spots that he can succeed. Really a bad game for Boozer to come back, but better now than later.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    It will take time, Thibs said he doesn't think the offense will need to change with Boozer, which basically means he expects Boozer to know where to be to get the ball in the flow of the offense if he wants it. Boozer can walk through the plays in practice all he wants but it'll take a few games before he can do it at the speed of a real game.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Yea, I mean I agree it was just hard to watch. The offense may not need to change but the little tendencies of players definitely take time to acclimate. I'm not expressing any kind of worry, it just sucked seeing the offense look confused after having a definite identity of the first 15 games.

  • Orlando had as many offensive rebounds as the bulls had defensive. The bulls aren't going to beat anybody good like that. I'm really hoping that this is an aberration and not more evidence that as nice a player as Noah is, he's going to struggle against a real center. Fortunately, I don't think there are any real centers besides Howard in the nba anymore. Orlando really didn't look like they were trying that hard.

  • The bulls also need to tighten up the defense and play more up tempo. Brewer needs to be starting. The bulls can't allow Orlando to walk it up and dump it in to Howard. And if they play up tempo with JJ coming off of the bench, the impact of his bonehead plays will be diluted. The bulls are never going to beat Orlando in a half court game especially when Orlando can calmly step into their three point shots.

    Of course all of this only matters when they play really good teams like the Laker, Spurs, Celtics and Magic. They can keep playing the way they've been playing and win at a .700 clip against the rest of the league.

  • I don't think Dwight Howard was much of a factor in the result at all to be honest. The Bulls lost the game in the second quarter when Howard did jack.

    Howard sat the first 6 minutes, and in the remaining 6 minutes had one defensive rebound, one non shooting foul on Noah, one turnover, one illegal defense and one missed jumper.

    We only scored 15 points for the quarter, but it wasn't really Howard's D that did it, it was the 4 points we scored while he was off the floor that really killed us. I also don't think it was Howard allowing them to make shots during the run, the majority of the Magic points while he was on the floor came from free throws.

    The Magic won the game because the only damn thing we did well while the game mattered was defend Dwight Howard. The guy had 6 points (on 3/7 with 3 turnovers) and 3 rebounds in 18 minutes of play at half time. I mean yeah, he was better in the second half and ensured the Bulls didn't make a comeback that was very unlikely anyway, but how you can say he dominated the game I don't know.

    Jameer Nelson outplayed Rose by a much bigger amount that Howard outplayed Noah, and that's the one position the Bulls could not afford to be dominated at if they're to win games. To me that was the key to the game.

    As for Boozer, pretty much as I feared, any thoughts of him coming back in and it all just working were always just spin. He's going to take a few games to work out where he needs to be. The 22 minutes he got is about the limit of what I'd play him for the next few games until he shows he's ready to play more.

    I don't know if the start with Boozer threw off the offensive execution, because it got pretty sloppy even when he wasn't on the floor, but it could have also been the hockey subs. Kind of worrying because the execution against the Kings (seems so long ago now) was poor too, it's just that the Kings are a bad team and the Bulls managed to score decently anyway.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Our offense depends on Rose getting to the rim, and a lot of tip ins. Howard's presence denied us of both.

  • Bulls had better hope they don't run into the Magic in the playoffs cause they want get far at all with the team they have now. Another scoring option is a must trade that has to happen against this team since the Magic obviously have the Bulls number.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    The Magic were already the team I least wanted to play in the playoffs. The Bulls match up fine against the other teams in the East, but their record against the Magic has been horrible. The bit that's frustrating is it's not even Howard that kills us, it's their perimeter guys.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    And the thing that's doubly frustrating for me is every single Magic game I have to listen to it being called by the big time homers from Florida SunSports network due to blackout rules. The way we get the snot beat out of us against this Magic team, it certaintly is insult to injury. Pure torture. That Matt Goukas of thiers is the most insulting broadcaster I have ever heard, he just slips little insults in there constantly with that little shit eating smirk on his face. Oh I can't stand him!

  • In reply to Reese1:


    Dwight Howard and the Magic just OWN Derrick Rose and the Bulls.


    It's 6-2 now in favor of Dwight Howard and the Magic.

    And it's a BLOWOUT.


    12/2/10 107-78
    3/11/10 111-82
    2/10/10 107-87
    3/11/09 107-79
    12/31/08 113-94
    11/3/08 96-93

    * 5 out of 6 of those losses are TOTAL ASS-KICKINGS.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Howard knocked Rose out of the 2 blowouts last year, the game before that last year, in December, the Bulls kicked the Magic's ass in a blowout, promting Howard to want to make a statement to Rose within 3 minutes of their next meeting. We know what happened then.

    You can't really go back farther than that, I mean who do we still have from those teams? 2 guys! A rookie Derrick Rose & Luol Deng.

  • In reply to ChiRy:


    Stop making EXCUSES. Thank you.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Do you want to get into all the stats of your mancrush Carmelo, and how poor his stats appear in games that he gets knocked out/takes himself out with a sore tummy. No, that would be inconvenient to your propoganda wouldn't it.

  • In reply to Reese1:


    D. Rose is only averaging 13ppg and 3apg vs. D. Howard's Magic teams.

    That's not going to get it done.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    yeah in about 20 mpg!

  • In reply to Reese1:

    the playoffs are a long, long way away. We will be a different team by then.

    Trivia question: The last time the Bulls played the Magic, you know how many current Bulls were suited for that game? 3. JJ, Taj, & Rose for 12 minutes.
    Throw in Deng & Noah & those are the only Bulls out of the 18 we had last year that still remain. It is still going to take a little bit to get our mojo workin.

  • I'm not just talking about this game, I'm talking in general. I think at some point you need to use the reverse theory you normally use with stars, "OK, lets not let the rest of the team beat us, lets make Howard beat us". I mean Howard hasn't beaten the Bulls by himself in the past when he's been defended by Drew Gooden or Aaron Gray or even Chris Richard. I think at some point we need to trust Noah straight up and if he drops a monster game then well played.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Interesting, that's actually the gameplan that Boston used against Orlando last year, obviously when Thibs was coaching there. They played Howard one on one and made him beat them. Which is why its weird that Thibs didn't go with the same gameplan this time around.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    maybe saving it for the playoffs?

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    I think it's a game plan that works for Howard because although he's a 20 PPG player he's someone who you expect to chip in 15-25 every night. He hasn't really proven he's a guy who will really have a monster game if the defense doesn't adjust.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    I agree, its always the rest of their team getting off.

  • SIDE NOTE #2:

    Carmelo Anthony is 6-4 vs. Dwight Howard's Magic teams and avg. 28 ppg.

    * I know who I want leading the Bulls past the Magic in the ECF.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Michael Jordan is 23-10 against the Magic and averages 29.5 a game. Maybe we should bring him out of retirement if all we care about is the record against one team totally out of context.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:


    It's not out of context. Get a f*ckin CLUE.

    Sarcasm is IDIOTIC, like your f*ckin arguements.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I'm just sayin' MJ looks pretty fit for a 47 year old, maybe he could contribute since he has such a proven record. He's also known to MAN UP through flu like symptoms unlike some players, so I thought you'd be all over the idea.

    If the whole retired number thing offends you we could even just give him #45, no need to unretire #23 until he gets back in game shape.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Things I noticed:

    1. When Dwight picked up the somewhat early foul I was excited thinking Rose/etc might pick up some more fouls by taking it to him, never happened.

    2.Vince Carter seems to look like a total stud against the Bulls. Doug mentioned Deng on him but I thought it was Bogans. Either way I thought it would be different now that it wasn't undersized Hinrich. He killed us and really set the tone.

    3. Think Boozer should have been coming of the bench to work his way back. Hope it isn't a ego thing that Thibs felt he had to start him.

    4. Rose still can suck at D. Nelson should not be able to use Rose like he did. A few good plays by a Veteran I can understand but not that.

    5. How many Defensive three seconds are we going to get? Korver WTF its not like you helping on D is going to help that much anyway.

    6. FT shooting, Magic - awesome Bulls -terrible at least while I could still stand watching the game and when it mattered.

    On a brighter note: the Lakers lost to the Rockets so I guess even the great teams can suck it up as well.

  • In reply to UnstopaBull:

    I think that it was Bonehead on those first 2 offensive tipins

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    That game was a SNOOZER! ranks up there with one of the worst and most boring games I've ever seen. Unfortunately I went to this game, sorry to say the Bulls were playing WNBA quality basketball. I didn't even recognize our team. We came out there strutting around like gangsters like hey we're 9-6, we don't have to hustle anymore. There was no defensive intensity, save for JJ in the 4th, our offensive was painful to watch as people just stood around and the ball was passed back and forth until someone was forced to shoot. This was just awful to watch, it wasn't just bad, it was strange that the Bulls were playing like that, maybe they were nervous about Carlos being on the floor. I agree that once in a while a team has a clunker of a game, but that wasn't a clunker, that was a complete and utter disaster.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    do you think Melo would have helped last night?

  • In reply to ChiRy:



  • In reply to MrHappy:

    really? because it really wasn't so much of a volume shooter that we were missing.

    we really lost because of rebounding, don't think Melo would have done all that much more than Deng. Not sure he would have helped the team D either.

  • While I kind of agree with what you're saying, I still don't see that as Howard beating the Bulls. Howard just wasn't great on the night, and in fact isn't great enough to deserve that much attention on any night, the Bulls beat themselves by treating him like he's prime Shaq or something.

  • Mitchell, once again we are in TOTAL agreement.

  • In reply to thegreatlie:


    And you are just being NAIVE.

  • In reply to thegreatlie:

    To the CLUELESS,

    What's with all the EXCUSES?

    The Bulls have gotten their ASS-WHIPPED 5 times vs. the Orlando Magic over that last 3 season with Derrick Rose running the Bulls. I can't believe there are so many CLUELESS Bulls' fans on here, who like to SETTLE and be CONTENT with an non-championship level team.

    And I guess Doug Thonus is leading the way. I'm amazed by that. He should be smarter.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I agree, we should never SETTLE or be CONTENT with the team. Nick Young is going to be a free agent this off season and if we miss out we're going to be kicking ourselves for the next twenty years. Wont we look foolish at his hall of fame induction ceremony when we're the team who refused to dump Noah & Boozer for cap space! Luckily you're here or else us CLUELESS Bulls fans wouldn't have known about the guy, but now I'm confident we'll make the moves so we can offer him the max contract he deserves.

    Thank you MrHappy, you're the best thing to happen to the Bulls since a shooting guard from North Carolina.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    You really should see a shrink, you have some serious, SERIOUS issues. At the very least an inferiority complex, anger issues, & a lack of attention that probably stems from not getting hugged enough as a child.

    Its OK man, let all that hate out, get some help, pour out all those mixed up toughts and bad feelings.

    When you're ready your family, DOUG THONUS & HIS CLUELESS BAND OF FOLLWERS, will be waiting for you with open arms, ready to have some more respectful debates.

  • In reply to MrHappy:


    The IGNORANCE on here is incredible.

    I'm reading people make EXCUSES that my argument that Derrick Rose is 2-6 against the Dwight Howard led Magic is irrelevant because he was HURT in two of those games.


    Take those two games out and what is Derrick Rose's record vs. Dwight Howard and the Magic? It's still 2-4. Wake-up people. Derrick Rose has only had 1 really good game vs. the Magic when he scored 30 points. The other 7 games he has played against them have been average at best.

    I'm also reading that people on here would rather see the ball in Derrick Rose's hands at the end of the game, rather than Carmelo Anthony's hands. That's ABSURD. Derrick Rose is NOT a closer. He has already FAILED 5 times this year, in terms of closing. Plus, Melo has 14 game-winners throughout his career and two against the Bulls.

    Don't be so NAIVE people, instead get a CLUE!!!

    Carmelo Anthony has a WINNING RECORD against LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh and Dwight Howard. He's also got a .500 record vs. Paul Pierce. Can you say that in regards to Derrick Rose and Luol Deng? No you can not.

    Derrick Rose and Luol Deng have a LOSING RECORD vs. LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Dwight Howard and Paul Pierce. Yet, Doug Thonus wants all of you to believe that the Bulls can actually COMPETE FOR A #1 SEED. That's just being NAIVE.

    Unlike some of you on here, I don't take personal shots, unless one is directed at me. I'm just telling the FACTS and the TRUTH. You can choose to be REALISTIC and listen to what I'm saying or you can continue to live in FANTASYLAND and think the Bulls have a better team than they actually have.

    As I said months ago, if the Bulls trade JJ for a SG, maybe they can COMPETE for the Eastern Conference. But if they get Melo, they will COMPETE for an NBA championship.

    It's not time to get DEFENSIVE. Just GET A CLUE!!!

  • In reply to thegreatlie:

    Would it be inappropriate to reply "Fuck You!" to every one of Happy's posts from now on?

  • In reply to UnstopaBull:

    Now why would you want to do that?

    The FAILURE of this Bulls team against the Magic has made me SEE THE LIGHT in MrHappy's wisdom. Here he has been toiling away for many months to bring enlightenment to the Bulls fans who just don't know how awful the team is when it's been staring us right in the face. We were all here thinking JJ would have to get surgery to graft on additional fingers to hold all the rings he was going to collect when in fact JJ sucks and the Bulls aren't going to win every championship for the next several decades!

    I know it's a rude shock but don't shoot the messenger. MrHappy is here to bring his vast basketball wisdom to us all, and we should treat him with the utmost respect and deference.

  • While I don't think the Magic always hit those open shots your point is well taken when it applies to the Bulls. Having Bogans miss his wide open 3's so often really is a killer for the starting unit. Hard to get off to a good start when they can collapse off of Bogans all the time. Like playing 4-5. Solution - unknown

  • Hell, even 10 is pushing it.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    How about Shaq, Olajawon, Robinson, Duncan, Ewing, Jabbar, Parrish, Wilt, Russell, Artis Gilmore, Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy, Bob Lanier, Willis Reed, Brad Daugherty, Wes Unseld
    for starters.

    These are all real men who would have stood up to Howard physically, hell even Bill Cartwright would have grappled Howard to the death.

    Howard has a body builders upper body, but his lower body is twiggy like, not unlike Noah, and that is where you derive your real strenth and power from.

  • lol

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    exactly :)

  • They were just dead on the floor. If we played like that every game we'd have won maybe 1 game(Golden State) this year.

  • It really appeared to me that Boozer had no business playing last night. Finally, the bulls team needs to think long term, as opposed to previous seasons where we needed to literally win every game possible.

    I dont need a PF who is 75% at this point.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    he will always be around 75% until he gets game work. This is his preseason.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    yup. We just have to live through it.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    Last night wasn

  • In reply to Edward:

    I wanted the Bulls to get their hands on Bass for the past several years, even before he hit free agency, and when he only got 4/$16 I was really pissed that the Bulls didn't go after him.

    Then he didn't play much at all last year and was rumored to be available in trade. Heck, we probably could have gotten him and something for Hinrich.

    I just like that guys size, physicality and skillset. I certainlly would have offered Tyrus Thomas for him.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I always did too

  • In reply to Dmband:

    Doug, I don't know if you listen to Fred and Mark's podcast but, they were gushing over Rose and calling him MVP material, then you had the article on how you wouldn't trade anybody for Rose. As much as I want to buy into the Rose hype, I can't.

    An MVP doesn't play like Rose did last night. He couldn't guard Nelson, he looked like he was on ice skates.

    He didn't create for himself, settling for outside jumpers. He didn't create for others getting only 4 assists. Very disappointed in Rose.

    Lets contrast Rose's performance with Noah's. Its understandable that Noah isn't going to have an amazing night going up against Howard but, at least the effort was there. No he wasn't getting rebounds but that is because he was so focused on blocking out Howard. Yet he found a way to contribute. He scored and scored fairly efficiently even challenge Dwight on a couple of plays.

    Very disappointed in Rose and the Bulls defense.

  • In reply to postdiction:

    rose has been hurt twice going in on howard. it's understandable to be tentative going in on the biggest body in the league.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    Hmmmmmm. Business was goooooood last night. Sold Noah an ounce of green and we took bong hits in the locker room at half. Hmmmmmmm. Sorry fans.

    Brandon Bass is a beast. I've liked him since his Dallas days.

    Hoping the lack of rebounding was partly due to spacing issues with Boozer back and our bigs figuring out where they should be. I hope Boozer's post game doesn't clog the lane and make offensive boards and tips more difficult for Noah.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    Lots of great comments, helping to ease the sting... I want to pump one more for the difficulty of returning home after the Circus trip. This was a good road team last year (remember five in a row!) and obviously bonds well. I bet they'll be VERY focussed for Boston tomorrow night. One more question: how's Taj's foot? I thought that maybe Boozer starting was hastened by Taj's poorer recent play...

  • In reply to Dmband:

    The shooting guard position needs to get addressed, plain and simple.

    Brewer and Bogans combining for 7 points = playing 4 on 5 basketball on the offense. You can't beat most teams, let alone title contenders, like that over the long haul unless that 4th position is giving you something else extraordinary (like Dennis Rodman).

    While Deng, Rose, Boozer and to a lesser extent Noah underwhelemed last night, at least collectively, you can be reasonably sure you'll get much more good than bad over the long haul. Sixteen games into the season, I can't say that for either SG that sees major minutes.

    I still see the Bulls as a top 4 seed, but unlike Barkley, I can't envision them winning the Eastern Conference with such a gaping hole at the 2-spot.

  • In reply to saigman:

    I Completely Agree! The Bulls wings were completely outclassed by Orlando.

  • In reply to saigman:

    However, I wouldn't be surprised if Bulls management waited until the off-season to make a significant SG change. I think they want to play a couple months with Boozer, then reassess. Also, the new CBA is another reason why Bulls may wait until the off-season to upgrade at SG.

  • In reply to saigman:

    Benching Bonehead Bogans would be a good first step. I really don't see how TT can continue to give him minutes never mind start him.

    Brewer is not ideal either, but at least he is a live body out there, and maybe a live mind also.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    With all the up and coming point guard hype in the league with Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, etc., J. Nelson is getting the shaft. He owned Rose last night.

  • Maybe we can get Asik one of the shock collars I use for my Beagles in the back yard.

  • I'll throw in a gift card to a tanning salon...the dude is going to contract skin cancer during one of our road trips down south.

  • I think his point was that there aren't as many dominant centers as there used to be, not exactly of Dwight Howard's particular makeup. Some of that probably is on the way big men learn the game now, but some of it on the rule changes over the years.

  • wow! great quote!

  • Mr. Crappy just got owned.....

  • In reply to evilhoban:


    Like you own you mommy every night. Shut-up dork.

  • Stan is a smart coach, I noticed some unusual calls last night, and I don't think its out of the realm to suggest that he got in the officials ear before the game, possibly planting some seeds early knowing we could meet up in the playoffs.

    #1 Those illegal D's & defnsive 3 second calls, 2 of them complete BS. The refs had to have been looking for that before the game even started, the only question being if VanGundy initiated it.

    #2 The derrick Rose palming call. Yes, it probably is palming stricktly according to the rules. He hasn't been called for that all year though, why start now? That one really made me question VanGundy's role. Which I don't fault him for, you can do that, but now Thibs needs to get into the game. After that palming call Rose wasn't very aggressive in his dribble penetration.

    Anyone else notice these 2 instances?

  • Rose has been scoring a ton on a high # of shots. I know he needs to do this because the Bulls don't have other options but, his efficiency has been pretty average and no where near MVP numbers. His assist #s have been declining steadily through the early part of the season. His FT shooting(everybody on the bulls have been sucking with FTs) is the worst of his young career .

    Its easy to call me a hater because, you aren't really thinking objectively. I criticize Rose because I expect the best out of him.

    Last night he was very passive and played like he was scared of Howard. He settled for outside jumpers almost never driving to the rim.

    I excuse Noah's performance because he was going against the best C in the NBA . Also Noah isn't the one say things like "I want people to fear me" and "Why can't I be MVP". Noah didn't have a good game but, Noah knows his limitations and almost always finds a way to make a positive contribution. Can't say that about Rose last night.

  • Lol yea and Kobe also said D. Will was the best PG in the league after LA played the Jazz. Great source.

    I do agree Rose has improved in almost all aspects of his game including 3pt shooting and defense.

    If you don't want me to tell you that he is a MVP candidate then, I won't but, it will still be the truth. No MVP has a PER of 22.

    as for coming out of the woodwork, my account was made when Doug started this blog so I have been here, came over from the old forum. So don't make assumptions about things you know nothing about.

    Yes I excuse Noah's performace because he knows his limitations. Every player has different expectations and roles on the team. Noah isn't a superstar who is expected to carry a team offensively. He mainly contributes with his D and rebounding but, when he isn't doing that he finds other ways to contribute.

    If Rose wants to be "the man" he needs to carry the team offensively and if his shot isn't falling he needs to contribut in other ways like defense, rebounding, drawing fouls, setting up teammates etc. He did none of those things last night.

  • Agreed, but he got beat off the dribble a bunch too. Nelson was getting to the bucket and going where he wanted without Howard picks.

    I still think Rose is an MVP candidate thus far, but he was not the best PG on the floor last night. Hoping the blowout had to do with the team adjusting to Booz. He needs to get his legs back. That will probably take a couple weeks.

  • In reply to Crowned:


    I don't mind you waxing anti-hype about our often dissapointing Chicago Bears... but Rose is all I have to latch onto at this point in my "Give Chicago a superstar!" hopes and dreams since Cutler's not-so-stellar overall performances.

    Pleae, I beg of you, don't go poisoning my Kool Aid.

    Rose is the most electrifying player I have seen (from my point guard focused point of view) in a LONG time. Reading this almost makes me weep.

    Then again, last night's game almost makes me weep.

    I guess I can't hate a guy for speaking the truth, but I can sure as hell whine about it.

  • In reply to JohnGalt:

    What up Willie. I've been one of the strongest pro-hype guys on DBB. My 10-6 prediction is looking pretty good.

    I wouldn't trade Rose for any other PG in the league. He's humble, wants to win bad, has lightening speed, continues to dramatically improve weaker spots in his game quickly (jumper looks so much better than last year). I can go on and on. I love rooting for this kid and team! Just noting that J.Nelson got the better of him last night and is overlooked in the best young PG(s) discussion. I know D.Rose will NOT forget this one next time we play the Magic.

  • In reply to Crowned:

    I really can't remember Nelson beating Rose off the dribble straight up

  • In reply to Crowned:

    I just don't see anything special in the way Nelson plays sorry. He looks solid though, & did outplay him last night.

  • In reply to Crowned:

    Love this quote... I think Derrick really doesn't like Lebron, probably why he didn't try AT ALL to recruit him.

    When asked if he would be watching James' much-anticipated return to Cleveland, Bulls All-Star point guard Derrick Rose responded this way.

    "Probably not," Rose said. "I've got my second season of 'Dexter' so I'm good."

  • In reply to Dileg:

    Derrick doesn't watch other NBA games, which is funny beacause he lives basketball. He would much rather be playing it than watching it though, which is good. He needs to spend a little time away from the game.

    I don't think he likes LeBron though either.

  • In reply to Dileg:,0,267704.story

    could you see the Miami Heat stars having a talk like this with each other?

  • In reply to Dileg:


    Derrick Rose and Luol Deng are 2-6 vs. Howard's Magic, while avg. 28ppg combined.

    Carmelo Anthony is 6-4 vs. Howard's Magic, while avg. 28ppg by himself.


  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Yeah exactly, we really need to improve this team.

    I was going to suggest a trade of Rose & Deng for Stucky and Hamilton, but then I checked and apparently those two average 35 points a game against the Magic when they play together! No way does Detroit do that trade now! Damn, you think if we throw in a couple of future firsts we might be able to twist their arm?

  • In reply to Dileg:

    from KC Johnson:

    Despite the Bulls continuing to struggle with first and third quarters, Thibodeau again said he isn't considering replacing Keith Bogans with Ronnie Brewer as a starter.

    You've got to be kidding me

  • exactly, I wouldn't even call it getting owned either

  • I was going to say this very thing! Yes, not only did we not let Dwight Howard have a chance to beat us, but we didn't even double team very effectively as evidenced by the three illegal defenses in five minutes by Kyle freaking Korver, and then the numerous rebounds by Vince Carter ( why does he always decide to show up against us, is it personal?) ALSO< we did not draw any fouls on Howard, D-Rose did not drive and no one else tried. He got a foul three minutes in and we didn't capitalize- his fouling propensity is our one chance to even the odds and get him sitting on the bench...

  • I have to agree with B.S. there are only a few legitimate centers in the league today. In the past there were many guys, who might not have had Howards combination of strength and speed(I dispute size because he is rumored to be only 6'9") but were legitimate bigmen.

    I am certain that M.J. could name ten of the top of his head from his era alone. Noah would have to have played power forward in those eras, which he might not have the skillset for.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    he has the skillset for it

  • I totally agree with you Howard's presence dominated the game even though his stats were nominal for him.

    Starting your analysis of the game with Noah v Howard was spot on, everything else revolved around how the Bulls handled that matchup, and they really didn't seem to know what to do.

  • That cannot be the Andrew Lang that played some center in the league a few years back, Atlanta maybe.

  • Rebounds = Rings, Pat Riley, or at least wins

    Doug made a good point that while Noah was doing everything that he could to keep Howard at bay, his teammates were doing nothing to help on the boards.

    Sometimes as a rebounder the best thing that you can do is keep the other guy off the boards, but then your teammates have to crash the boards and pick up the scraps.

    I have always felt that Noah is trying to guard all five guys on the court, but his teammates don't seem to have the instincts to pick him up.

  • I hate to harp on the officiating, but the refs can pretty much hand the game to any team they want any time they want.

    When you call every touch foul on one team and nothing on the other you take away all of one teams aggression and give it to the other team.

    Sometimes a lack of aggression by one team leads to all the call going against them, last night the Bulls had both things going against them.

  • I would have liked to have seen a little more of Asik and Noah together, with Asik on Howard and Noah playing the field and helping double Howard.

    If Asik is the one bodying Howard, then Noah is the one cleaning up the boards, like Doug said that Boozer should have been doing.

  • All of you sportcenter highlight guys are massively overating Rose's game right now. Every play matters, not just those on the offensive end when you have the ball, that was Ben Gordons attitude.

    He is no where near MVP material, he is simply scoring a lot right now by taking a ton of shots.

    Most of the rest of his game is very immature at this point. Especially his ball management(ball handling and passing), he is very sloppy and careless with the ball.

    And he is still a bad defender, not just individualy but team defense also.

    Lets face it Pippen, Jordan, Grant, and Rodman did what they did on offense, but they were all among the best defenders in the league at their positions.

    Until Rose gets there in all phases of the game he is a much better version of Ben Gordon, but not an MVP. He is an MVP in much the same way that Melo is an MVP, as in not.

    Rose is an amazing talent, but an unfinished immature one, and not in the rarified air that everyone is speaking about him now.

    There is just so much more to the game than PPG, otherwise why not just give the MVP to the scoring champion every year. Ask Bill Russell how he would feel about that.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I've got to agree that Rose's hype has always tended to be one step ahead of his game. Yeah he's the best player on the team, but he needs to be an even better player. The standard he's held to isn't "fair", but the reality is you need your best player to be a super-duper-star to win. You can't hold them to the "at least they're better than Ben Gordon or Luol Deng" standard.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Nash had 2 MVPs right?

  • Again, sportcenter highlight analysis.

  • I think that you just echoed my sentiments that Rose's game is not yet mature(just like Durants) and is not worthy of MVP consideration yet.

  • A moving mack truck, who sticks his ass out also. Howard could have been called for a moving pick several times, but got the star treatment, and as a result Rose got slammed and the shaft.

    Anybody notice that Howard pushed JJ with 2 hands on that blown dunk in the 4rth and no call, WTF.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Refs aren't inclined to give scrub garbage time players who blow dunks the benefit of the doubt.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Didnt see the game for which i am grateful. I think the Bulls lost because of Boozer being thrown in as a starter and a bit too much of believing the hype.

    I also think it is way too early to talk about Rose as an MVP candidate but he sure played like one in November.

    Postdiction, you raise some valid points but like most of the political dialogue today, you overstate your case to the point where you just become another flaming j**ka*s shouting from the rooftop (e.g., Mr. Happy). A slightly better version of Ben Gordon? C'mon, when did Gordon ever get 8 assists in a week, much less a game, much less average 8 a game? When did Ben Gordon ever average 26 ppg?

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I was thinking the same thing, complete BS no-call

  • just pulling up the stat for usage, he's third in the league behind durant and kobe

  • Must See TV, Jordan telling LeBron what's up:

  • Mitchell,

    More EXCUSES.

  • That was huge. I think as long as Rose stays aggressive, getting near 20 shots per game, then the transition will be smooth & not last so long

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