Would you trade Rose for any player in the NBA?

I was thinking about the small list of players in the league that I would trade Derrick Rose for until I came to an interesting conclusion. 

There's no one on the list.

No, Derrick Rose isn't the best player in the league.   No, I don't think he's likely to become the best player in the league real soon either, but he is the most valuable player in the NBA given his age, ability, and contract situation.

The Candidates

Kobe, Wade
Great players, too short of a career left.   Kobe's already in his 30s, and Wade's career will be cut short due to the constant falls. 

LeBron James
I think LeBron is the best player in the league for the next five seasons, but he's also an extraordinarily difficult guy to like.  He's a diva who's thrown his coach under the bus already and seems to want to take little personal accountability.   He appeared to quit on his team in the playoffs last season, and I doubt I'm alone when I say he'd be really difficult to root for.  

I'd get over it.   The winning would help, and I won't pretend that Rose is the better player of the two, but Rose is the anti-LeBron.   He's very likable, easy to root for, seems ready to sacrifice to win, and you won't feel like you sold your soul to get a championship behind him.

Dwight Howard
At first glance, Howard seems like a guy you'd trade Rose for in terms of value.  He provides extraordinary interior defense and very good interior offense.   He's a guy that almost no teams can match up with and he changes the game for any team trying to drive the lane. 

The problem is the Bulls strength is all in the front court.   They don't have any pieces that fit next to Howard.   What good is Joakim Noah next to Howard?   How good is Boozer next to Howard?   Can you realistically move half the high paid players on this team without losing extraordinary amounts of value in order to rebuild around Howard? 

I don't think you can.   If the Bulls still had a Gordon/Hinrich backcourt (while they were playing and shooting well) then a trade for Howard would make a world of sense.   They'd already have good perimeter shooters to complement his inside out game, but now, you'd need to reconstruct the entire team to make it work.

However, go through the league and try and figure out which team gives you a great guard for Carlos Boozer or Joakim Noah and ask yourself if the team you have left is really better than what the Bulls have now.

Kevin Durant
Durant was the consensus MVP candidate going into this season.  He's young, dominant, a great character guy, very likable.   However, thus far, he's failed to live up to his accomplishments last season.  He's playing considerably worse than Rose right now, and while I love Durant, he's a softer player.

The Lakers exposed him in the playoffs last year by playing him extremely physically and shutting him down.  He's not really giving you a whole lot outside of his awesome scoring which this year is less awesome than Derrick Rose's scoring, and Rose is giving you better play making for others.

Right now Derrick Rose is outplaying Kevin Durant, he's more physically dominant for his position, more of an interior player, a tougher player, and he has every bit as much upside as Durant.  There's simply no reason to make the switch, especially given that Durant is one year deeper into his contract years and will make more money over the same period of time.

Chris Paul (same argument applies for Deron Williams) 

In some ways, Paul is the toughest guy to argue about.  He's a better play maker than Rose, and he's been a significantly more efficient offensive player this season even though his volume numbers are less.  At his peak, he's been as good as any PG to ever play in the NBA.   Magic Johnson being the only PG off the top of my head who's peak has definitely been higher.

Paul's also young enough that his age isn't a significant negative factor even if he is three years older than Derrick.  

I think Paul is a better player, but you're also inheriting a far worse contract situation.   Assume that Paul agrees to stay here past 2012 when he's an unrestricted free agent, then you're still giving him a 2nd tier max contract instead of a 1st tier.   Under today's rules, Paul would end up making 6/131 while Derrick will likely sign a 5 year max at 5/87.     

Is great as he is, do you really want to pay Paul 44 million more for 1 extra year, risk takin ghim as a UFA, take on a tiny bit more injury risk, and a slightly older player?  [hint - the answer is no].

Final thoughts
How far is Derrick from the best player in the NBA?  I'm not sure, he's clearly top 10 right now, and he's a good bet to be top 5 within the next couple seasons.   Given his age, ability, contract situation, coachability, watchability, and likability there's no one in the league I'd take for Rose.

Comments

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  • I'd trade him for LeBron but it's a tough decision now after LeBron's antics the last year. A year ago you laugh at even having to ask the question.

    I'd trade him for Howard. Howard is further ahead of everyone at his position than anyone else in the NBA, you have to make that trade then work it out later.

    Durant I think you have to do as well, even if he's struggled a little this year. He started slowly every year so far, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's still better than Rose.

    If you're going to include the point guard swaps you have to at least give Westbrook a mention. I don't know if he can keep it up, but if what he's doing right now is legit then you'd have to seriously consider him, he's getting to the line for over 9 attempts a game, which has been our biggest knock on Rose's offensive game. I wouldn't do that trade now but by years end if he keeps it up you'd have to wonder which team says no first.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    We have all seen why Drose doesn't get to the line, its not just because he avoids contact. Its a mixture of him being IMO the strongest PG in the league and not showing as much as others when he gets fouled. His quiet demeanor and him not getting the star calls.

    Give him time I'm sure the him and the coaching staff is well aware of it. To me with his work ethic there is nothing he cant add to his game other than bigger hands haha

  • maybe for Sam Young...

  • In reply to ZombieKevie:

    We might have to throw in James Johnson....

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    ; )

  • In reply to ZombieKevie:

    Lebron and Howard, that's about it. John Wall is close, but these injuries scare me a bit.

    This actually brings up a good question. I'm curious about your opinion on Westbrook and the season he's having, Doug. I'm really amazed that he's playing this well, do you think he can keep it up? Because he's basically been the best player in the league

  • Nope

    Drose has the best attitude and work ethic of any player I have ever seen! We thought he was awesome last season but we all said we wish he had a consistent jumpshot and what did he do? Worked his tail off added that to his game! His shooting percentage isn't down very much considering he is taking 3's now!

    I think over the season and then this summer he works on defense and comes back next season as a solid defender. He has the quickness, size at his position and strength to be a really good defender!

    His court vision is underrated he is only averaging 1.5 assists less than Williams without a solid pick and roll player like Millsap once boozer comes back that will change!

    After that where is a week spot in his game? I don't see one

    He has loyalty something I believe none of the players above have except Howard and Durant.

    Doug what about Rondo?

  • In reply to UtahBullsFan:

    Rondo's a punk. Take away those 3 future HOFers and I think he averages 1/2 the assists he's getting now. Good D & rebounding though. No jumper.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    right, I forgot about his rebounding, it is uncanny, Westbrook is like that too.

    I noticed that Thibs made a point to compliment Rose on his rebounding after that 12 rebound effort. I thought that was a big deal, since it means that TT is talking to Rose about the value of his rebounding, especially as a way to ignite the fast break.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    His rebounding is impressive, but then again, the Celts team rebounding has been surprisingly sub-par for a team of their caliber, so there's apparently a lot of rebounds available for Rondo. With Rose's hops, he might be a similar rebounder in Rondo's place.

  • What about Blake?

  • In reply to whonka:

    I think Blake has the potential to become a top player but it'd be hard to trade for someone who would set you back a couple of years in development like that who plays a position you're already stacked at.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    That's very true

  • In reply to whonka:

    I assume that you mean Griffin, not Steve. HaHa, just in case.

  • I think with LeBron you'd be relying on him being traded acting as a wake up call. Certainly I worry about his attitude, but he's the best player in the league, it's very hard for me to say no.

    If you do the Howard trade you don't move Boozer, you move Noah. I love Noah and think Melo is vastly over rated, but if we had Howard of course I do that trade.

    I'm not sure who this Durant guy is that you think can be shut down, must be someone different to the one who scored 25 or more points for 28 games in a row last year. Sure he had a below par first playoff series, but if he's so easy to shut down why did 28 teams in a row fail to do so?

    I also don't think Westbrook is the real thing just yet based on a small sample size, but I think you have to throw it out there. After all you're claiming Rose is better than Durant based on a similar sample size.

  • @Shakes I wouldn't trade Rose for James. As gifted as Lebron is physically, he's not thee mentally. If Erik Spoelstra has to call him out about being serious when your team is 9-8, then that's a problem.
    Howard is also a no. Yes he's by far the best Center in the league, Noah is maybe second and third. You would have to gut the roster to acquire him fiscally wise (its not a rose for howard even swap). Basically the Bulls would be the new Heat. 3 good players and no depth.
    Durant is the only maybe.

  • LeBron got whatever he wanted in Cleveland, then he got to have his ego boosting TV special, pick his team and choose to play with his budies. Him being traded would be the first time he's ever faced rejection, someone saying he can't have whatever he wants, he's not the be all and end all. Maybe that affects him, maybe it doesn't.

    I assumed since the question was whether I would sign off on the trades JR doesn't matter. I doubt JR would sign off on any of the trades since Rose is a local boy who is popular with the fans and on a cheap contract for another year after this. From a business perspective the risk/reward of trading him isn't very good.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    LeBron's head & heart is so piss poor though, that he'd turn the other way & make things worse. LeBron is not the kind of guy that makes lemonade out of lemons. He'll piss on that lemon before he even thinks about squeezing it.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Unless you're LeBron's shrink you don't really know how he'd react. You'd certainly want the BUlls to do their research and try to figure it out though.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Thinking about it more, I think one of the reasons I want to do the LeBron trade is for the exact reasons Doug doesn't want to. Nobody likes LeBron, he's a douche. I want that guy on the team, if you win with a guy that everyone hates it's just so much sweater.

    Think about it, if Duncan and the Spurs win nobody really cares, Duncan is about the most difficult sportsman to have a strong opinion on there is. He's the Pete Sampras of basketball. But if Kobe wins then hell, everyone loves or hates him, and the Lakers fans want that kind of hate, just makes winning better.

  • As far as Durant being shut down goes, Rose and Durant have fairly similar playoffs stats (got points but hugely inefficiently). You can argue that Rose is better now, but he's also never been tested by a top team that took him seriously (The Celtics were understrength and the Cavs didn't respect the Bulls).

    In a real playoff series I am terrified the Magic/Celtics/Lakers will put him on his butt until he can't get up just like Howard has done when he's played the Magic in the regular season.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    That's a legitimate fear. It would take away his driving, but not neccessarily the way he breaks down defenses. He still has the floater. He's got teammates to back him up too.
    In the coming years he really is going to develope the rest of his game to the point where opponents will essentially be choosing how they want Rose to kill them. You knock him on his ass on his way to the rack, ok, he's goona drive, drive the help defense & pass for an easy shot. Or he's gonna pull up & shoot a jumper in your face, or master a fadeaway or any number of counter attacks.

    This year, yeah, that it a concern.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    This fear points out the one true "problem" with Rose, and the one that he can't fix. He is a few inches too short and doesn't have the hand size to dominate as an attacker of the rim.

    He is sort of like a smaller DWade, who was awesome attacking the rim, but took a beating doing so, but is paying the price at an early age.

    I said early on that if Rose had Jordan's size and hands he could be the next Jordan but he was just too small. I think that Rose should consider studying(and it pains me to say this) Isaiah Thomas's game.

    I always remember everybody(coaches, players) talking about Jordan's hands and how big they were. Even Kobe once mentioned that his hands were not as big/good as Jordans as being the biggest difference between the 2.

    This seems to me to be the biggest reason that he has to create such high degree of difficulty shots every time that he drives, and why he will not be likely to keep this up for long, and why his offensive efficiency may never be elite unless he does it as a jump shooter and increases his free throws.

    Pippen always talks about how he and Jordan had an entire routine of hand work that Tim Grover designed for them, but obviously both of those guys had big hands to begin with, maybe Rose should consider working with Grover.

    In any event, I would expect the corkscrew driving part of Roses game to decrease noticably after he turns 25.

  • CP3's knee is in worse shape than you mentioned. Deron Williams is the only guy I would consider. Both are Chicago guys. It'd be tough, but I think I'd stick with Rose. No on Howard and No on LBJ, and while I like Durant, I think Rose will ultimately be better.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    D. Williams is actually from Dallas. He just played his college ball at Illinois.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    The Homer in me says don't trade D. Rose for ANYONE based on how he's playing right now. He reminds me of a shorter and much more humble version of LeBron during LeBron's first few seasons in that Rose can dominate pretty much at will despite several obvious areas of needed improvement.

    The wannabe GM in me says trade D. Rose only for LeBron or Deron Williams. I think a coach like Thibs would command LeBron's respect. And based on what I've seen of the Bulls so far, I'm confident Thibs would construct the perfect offense around LeBron in a way that Mike Brown couldn't and Spoelstra hasn't yet.

    I agree that too many other moves would have to be made to accommodate Howard. I think Boozer would be the perfect compliment to Howard if Howard was willing to concede to Boozer as the #1 scoring option on the front line. The problem is that Boozer would probably have to be involved in any trade for a high-level PG to replace Rose.

    Durant is one of my favorite players but Rose's playmaking ability gives Rose a slight edge IMO. I also think Durant has pretty much reached his ceiling - and yes, it's a ridiculously high ceiling. His rebounding and defense might get a little better if he gains weight as he matures but I think Rose has more upside.

    There's something about CP3 I just don't like. He's undeniably a gifted PG and a surefire HOFer if he stays healthy. Rose may never be as good of a pure PG as CP3, But as I've said in earlier blogs, Rose transcends traditional NBA positions and I think Rose has a chance to be the better basketball player overall.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    The only players I would consider would be Durant, Howard, CP3, & Blake Griffin....and if pressed right now it would be 50/50 on Durant about 60/40 on Rose over Howard & 80/20 Rose over CP3.

    Maybe I am forgetting someone, but LeBron? No way. No heart & I do not think he has any unrealized potential that he will fulfill anymore. Even if it were close in therms of everything they do for winning, and it not esp considering Rose potential & LeBron's complacency, I pick Rose because he is 1,000,000 times more likeable.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    ok I gave it a few minutes of thought....no way. Only player that comes close is Durant, as both have no injury history, are extremely young with lots of room to improve while currently having elite talent, are all about winning & team play, have incredible work ethics that set good examples & allows them & to improve, and are both marketable.

    In the end I pick Derrick, for both my objective bias, & because he is more athletic & plays a position of greater importance and one that is more difficult to fill. In contrasting I would only give Durant an edge in size (but not strength).

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    D. Williams doesn't do anything at an elite level though, just many things very well.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I'd say he drops dimes at an elite level. But I agree with the rest. But, like Scottie Pippen, when you can do multiple things very well, that makes you elite overall.

  • NO HELL NO

  • As a Bulls fan, I wouldn't trade Derrick Rose for anybody. I am proud to root for Derrick and for him to represent the Bulls as the face of the franchise. I admire his dedication, passion, sacrifice, work ethic, desire to win, his hunger to improve.

    Basketball is not just a hobby for me and it's not just a sport for entertainment purposes. I've learned a lot about myself on the basketball court and have learned a lot of valuable life lessons. You can tell a lot about a person outside the game, from the way he plays and his demeanor on the court.

    I want to follow D Rose's career as a Bull and watch his maturation and his growth on and off the court. If there's anyone that I would want to lead our Bulls team to another Championship run, it's Derrick Rose. The journey is more enjoyable than the destination...

  • I'm a big fan of Rondo as well and wished the Kings would have picked him instead of Quincy Dubie, lots of teams are kicking themselves for not drafting Rondo but you are right he is in an amazing position around HOF players and just needs to distribute to Ray Allen one of the shooters in NBA history, to Paul Piece a HOF, Garnett HOF, etc! He has crazy long arms and has shown decent offense but his team is stacked!
    Rose being the local quiet, hard working, team guy...was an All-Star in his 2nd year, just was on the US National team that surprised everyone and won it all, without having huge names like Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Kobe, Melo, etc.
    Rose is as close to untradable as anyone in the league at this point, next to Durant

    No way you trade Rose for Lebron! Lebron has a me 1st attitude and gets whatever he wants and isn't a team player.

    Likewise I would hate to lose Noah, him and Rose are the heart of this team! But we do need more scoring and can't expect it from Rose all the time so a Noah, JJ, Charlotte #1 pick for Melo would be hard to swallow but we didn't bite on it otherwise we'd have Melo now.

    Rose & Durant are the untouchables of the NBA right now! Too young and too good to let go of! ;-)

  • fb_avatar

    I get the feeling that Westbrook's having his career season right now. I don't get that same vibe with Rose.

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    I don't get that feeling, but I do get the feeling him & Durant can't coexist in the long run.

  • This thread is fun to evaluate Rose and how good he is now and we hope he will continue to advance, but it makes me sick thinking about even the talk of trading Derrick! Noah 2! ;-)

    Rose and Durant are untouchable! John Wall could be too in a year or so but it's his 1st season.

    I think we are seeing how Miami is looking with 3 big egos on a team and not playing as a team and not having a good PG like we have in DROSE! A PG is like a QB in football...a very important player/position which if you have a good one can go places with even a average team! :-)

  • Wow, Doug. And think that last year we argue that You have no problem drafting Brook Lopez at 9, that you will be happy by not winning the lotto and the right to pick Rose. And later on you did say something about Rose and pointed out "May offend some people..." Apology accepted!!!

  • I think the other factor we are forgetting when comparing Rose to Westbrook is that Westbrook is having his breakout year in a season where everyone coming in thought Durant would be MVP. Putting a bullseye on Durant's chest, now moreso than ever before. When Westbrook has the ball, his defender has one eye on him, one on Durant at all times. When Rose has the ball, he has 6-10 eyes on him. Not easy to do what you want when the opposing team knows what you're going to do and is focused on stopping it.

    It brings up another interesting point that I believe has come into focus through the first 20% of the season: The MVP race is currently a 2-man battle between Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose. All other candidates are flawed in their candidacies:

    Kobe: Great again, but there is talk that Gasol is the MVP of the Lakers right now. And you know Gasol isn't winning either.

    Lebron/Wade: Numbers down, team average, everyone hates them.

    Durant: Not living up to expectations this year, plus with Westbrook has a similar situation to Kobe/Gasol.

    Dirk: Good year again, but down from the year he actually won MVP, and voters aren't big on repeat winners unless it is a clear-cut decision.

    Williams/Paul: Will their teams be successful enough? Also, in my opinion, Rose is outplaying both guys through this point in the season.

    Rose and Howard are both putting up huge numbers on top 3 teams in their conference. I'd say Howard is the favorite right now given his team's record, his seniority over Rose in League tenure, and his offensive improvement. But if Boozer comes back and the team clicks and puts up 55+ wins without Rose's numbers dipping much, I could see him either winning or being in the top 3 in voting, making him the new darling for next year's race (a la Durant this year).

    How quickly expectations for D-Rose have changed?

  • fb_avatar

    The purist in me believes there's got ti be some statute of limitation in closing your eyes and barrelling toward the rim. But we've got OKC this weekend so I'll save most of the Westbrook hate for the game-thread. There'll probably be a lot about tunnel-visioned point guards, and most likely a stephen marbury comparison or two.

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    I personally would never have a PG who plays with his head down running the point. Derrick looks to score, but he always knows where his teammates are at the same time & is a willing passer.

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    interesting thought, considering Rose got blocked 6 times(and it seemed like more)against Sacto, and guys that barrel seem to get to the line, a lot.

  • IMO the thing that will prevent rose from becoming a true superstar is his ability to draw fouls and defense. I think with coach Thibs his defense will improve, he may never be an elite defender but, he won't be bad.

    However, his ability or willingness to draw fouls is what concerns me the most. Being able to get "free" points at the line is a necessity especially in the playoffs when teams play tighter D.

    In the end for the Bulls and how we are built, no player save LBJ would make us better.

  • In reply to postdiction:

    his D doesn't concern me, it is improving & will even more over the next few seasons. Once Booze returns & 90% of the scoring load isn't thrust upon his shoulders, Rose will be able to expend more energy & focus on D too.

  • trading d rose is like giving up my son or daugther up for adoption. Never gonna happen. LEt's not shoot in the wat if barrel. : )

  • I wouldn't trade him for anyone. Derrick's such a unique Chicago success story, that it's hard to imagine anyone else being embraced in the same way. There's a reason the pin pong ball fell the way it did. Call it destiny, fate, or whatever have you, we should all enjoy the Derrick Rose show!!!

  • In reply to thegreatlie:

    I think we all agree, there is something about the joy of the journey.

    It was that way with the Jordan Bulls and all those agonizing days against Detroit, it made it that much sweeter when we finally broke thru.

    Same thing with the 85 Bears, those guys were our guys for several years before they made it, and they are still legends anywhere they go in Chicago 25 years later.

  • In reply to thegreatlie:

    Doug, I guess that this means that you no longer believe that we here in Chicago have overrated Rose, as I believe you have postulated several times in the past few years.

  • Orlando wouldn't need to do anything except jettison the dead weight. A starting lineup of Rose, Pietrus, Lewis at 3 where he really belongs, Bass, and Gortat is pretty similar to what the bulls have now minus Boozer. Jameer and Anderson off of the bench. They'd be very close to as good as they are now if they played up tempo and good D.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    The thing that is holding Orlando back is that they have to play VC and Lewis 35-40 minutes a night to get 5-10 good minutes and some kind of return on the money they are paying them.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    Derrick has the opportunity to be as good as MJ, if JR decides to put quality all star players around him. NOAH BOOZER- maybe deng. and WE NEED MELO. : )

  • In reply to vinmotors:

    No I wouldn't trade Rose cause he is becoming an impact player and there are not many players like that in the league. The main impact players, Lebron, and Howard are showing and have shown that either they have flaws to their games or they are not mentally tough enough to get the job done themselves without going to join other all stars ( LEBRON), if anything he should've continued to try to get other good players to come to him to win a championship. I know Rose wants to be the star for his team and that's a very good thing, but he will also need to realize that if they don't make it to the finals that he will need to recruit other good players to join him with the Bulls as well. I'm not saying that the Bulls don't have the right pieces around him now but like I said if the team don't at least make it to the finals, Gar and Paxson should sit down with D-Rose during the off season to come up with some ideas of what they need to do to get to and win the championship. So basically come up with some players that who they think could compliment Rose and how he plays his game, and from there start the recruitment of those players with Rose being included with that recruitment cause I still feel that the Bulls as of now are 1 good scorer at the shooting guard position or 1 good scorer period (MELO)... from being a legit contender. But to answer the main topic question again... NO I would not trade Rose but I would definitely get the right pieces around him because history in the NBA has shown that no all star point guard has ever won a championship without having other good or impact players around them. This is where the Bulls management and owner need to get creative and are willing to pay the luxury tax to get the right players on this team if they are indeed that close to contending for the championship.

  • In reply to vinmotors:

    I just want to go on the record here: a lot of people are saying they didn't see this jump by Rose, and your truly called it. Doug you're saying Rose isn't likely to be the best player anytime soon, I disagree. He is top 10 now. Next year I predict he is easily top 5, and the following year in the discussion for best in the NBA, if not sooner.

  • It's like you've been eavesdropping on my debates with my friends. That last paragraph is the exact same thing I've said about the Rondo vs. Rose argument. Rondo seems to have better defensive instincts, but that's the ONLY edge I'd give him over Rose.

  • I could see LeBron retiring at the age of 32 & going into acting or music. I seriously question he love for basketball, and I think he just uses the game to prop himself up as "The King" and treat everyone like servants & peasants.

  • GM's in any sport will tell you the most important attribute of a prospect is the importance that the game has on that athlete's life, considering that pro level talent is a prerequisite.

    They want to believe that the prospect lives, eats, breathes, & sleeps basketball. Derrick does that. A couple more high end young players do: Durant, probably Westbrook...

  • he's got the size, strength, & energy, just not the length

    great attitude & work ethic it appreas too, but I agree with everything else.

  • Just some food for thought....
    Points + Rebounds + Assists
    DRose: 39.4
    Kobe: 37.2
    Durant: 37
    CP3: 31.5
    DWill: 36
    LBJ: 37.1

    Considering that, along with how he fits with this particular team (which was built around him), I'd say no to any trade offer, as well, assuming it was just a straight 1-for-1 trade (DWill + a couple #1 picks may have me thinking about it).

    If I were starting a franchise from scratch, I would probably take Durant, LBJ and Howard before Rose; but that would be about it.

  • In reply to saigman:

    left Howard off, but I guess that he is in the high mid 30's, but still below Rose.

  • As almost always, I completely agree with you Mitchell

  • I'm trying to think of the most compelling reasons why I wouldn't trade for Rose if I had one of those guys, and in a vacuum, hypothetically, current complimentary rosters & contracts aside...I can't think of any really. Maybe his heigth. Lack of playoff experience. His inability to get to the line consistently though I think that will improve, and maybe his clutch shooting but I'm not sure that is a very fair criticism. He hits shots when it counts, just not many at the very end, so far.

  • yeah, the free throw shooting is a major achilles heel, but if the Magic added another star alongside him, and kept multiple 3pt shooters, it might not matter.

  • He would almost have to start flopping to get some calls & I don't think that is in his personality, rightfully so.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    and he is starting to shrug his shoulders & raise his hands with that pained distraught expression as he runs back on D. Mild complaining. Rightfully so.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I loved the way he handled that in the Dallas game, it worked.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    RHETORICAL QUESTION:

    Answer...HELL NO!!!

  • Griffin didn't have microfracture surgery. He had a busted knee cap. MUCH different injury.

  • I think that the basis for your argument is more situational Bulls factors(as you see them) and a bit of a case of homerism.

    Everything you said makes sense to a Bulls fan, probably not to an unbiased observer, or certainly from a fan of another team.

    I think that Bill Simmons does an annual ranking of players by would you trade one guy straight up for another, and he factors in everything, age, contract, injuries, upside. It will be interesting to see where he places Rose this season. Top 10 for sure, top 5, maybe.

  • Defense is the biggest advantage for Rondo, and by the way check out his hands.

  • He is playing far better than Karl Malone did as a rookie, so that is an ominus sign for the rest of the league. If he keeps it up he will have a stronger rookie season than Rose did.

    Also, not sure if he had microfracture. I believe he had a broken knee cap, which might have been just a bone injury, which I believe does not require microfracture. Also, he has come back awesome in year one, which most/nobody does after microfracture.

    Not sure that changes the deal, but by the end of the year Griffen is likely in the conversation.

  • It seems to me that when Rose and Westbrook have been on the same court, coaches have eventually leaned toward Westbrook. I don't watch the guy everyday, but he impresses everytime that I see him.

    I think that he matches Rose physically, but appears to have a more aggressive personality.

    As a Bulls fan I would not make the trade, don't know about an OKC fan.

    actually, it would be interesting to see the reaction on the other team's fan boards is we proposed trading Rose for thier guy.

    I think it would become quickly obvious who would take Rose and who would not. Guarantee that Lebron, Howard, and Durrant would be resounding no's,as would several others.

  • Well said, very well said, I think that you have essentially agreed with Doug's analysis, giving concise reasons why.

  • The thing that holds me back on Howard is that for all his physical dominance, it has not translated to winning in the playoffs in the way that Shaq's physical dominance did in his heyday.

    Obviously, Rose hasn't done that either yet, in the way that Jordan did, or even in the way that Isaiah Thomas did.

  • Lebron initiates the contact, Rose tries to avoid it.

    That may be a function of the size difference, but it is the essential reason that Lebron gets the call and Rose doesn't.

    Lebrons contact looks like a car crash, with Rose you have to watch the replay to see it.

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