Bulls Beat #161 - Training Camp

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Bulls Beat #161 - Training Camp
A discussion of all the training camp and media news as well as a quick preview of the Bucks vs Bulls preseason game that meanders into a season wide comparison of the two teams fighting for the central division crown.

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  • Did you mean that Hollinger and Jennings predicted the Bucks to come out of the East? Or just that they would come out of the Central?

    FYI - I would totally ride up Milwaukee with you on Tuesday!

  • Great job getting access Doug. It was cool seeing you on Comcast(at least I'm 99% sure it was you), interviewing Scalabrine on media day. The media needs more intelligent reporters covering these teams. As for actual basketball:

    Unfortunately, I think Derrick is gonna disappoint this year. Everyone is expecting this monster year, especially after the comments you touched on, but I'm just not seeing it.

    I think he's a little too dumb, and a little too timid to become truly elite in this league. So far, everything he's done, has basically been a result of being a superior athlete, and nothing more.

    In fact, another thing that scares me is injuries. The way he freaks out every time he gets touched has me worried big time about how durable he will be in this league.

    I think his scoring efficiency will stay the same or slightly increase, while scoring less points per game. His assists will stay the same. And his rebounding will drop. Something like 19,6 and 3. Mostly because he will be thrilled to defer to his new and improved teammates (but his assists won't improve because he can't pass, and people have kept making excuses for him). He never wanted to be the man anyway.

    John Wall is gonna be the next truly beastly PG, in the Chris Paul mold. I would expect Rose's rep to take a major hit this season, with most fans questioning whether the Bulls should trade him by the end of the year.

    Btw, I realize this sounds rather extreme, but I'm incredibly down on Rose at the moment. I'm really hoping he proves me wrong.

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    I try to keep my replys to a minimum, and usually with people I know as regular, amicable posters. But I'll simply say that any second year player who averages 27 ppg in the playoffs on 48% at least has to be considered a possible candidate for top 7-10 league stud.

    I have my doubts about Derrick, but I also had my doubts about Scottie Pippen and John Paxson for years. I watched every USA FIBA game, and I don't buy this Derrick was just doing what Coach K asked him to do. The team had some close calls, and the only thing that distanced them in almost every game was Durant's insane shooting/scoring. They certainly could have used Rose's scoring.

    To me, he seems all or nothing. In the early games he showed some nice moves, and if not for being taken out of games looked like he was ready to go off. But I will say socially he looked lost among the other name players. He kind of mentally gagged abandoning his often killer mid range shooting for an inordinate amount of one hand floaters. His shooting percentage and turnovers fell and rose accordingly. Of copurse the bullshit FIBA lane packing etc. was a deceiving landscape for a less instinctive more environmentally adjusted player like Derrick.

    I view his poor showing as a significant development, and his stock among NBA anaylsts has taken a hit.

    But true competitors like Derrick Rose use major setbacks or failures as opportunities and challenges to take the next step, and face their faults and overcome them.

    I believe in Derrick, and like Luol, and Joakim I think his level of play will rise with the talent around him because that's what gamers do.

    I will say Derrick still has a lot to learn when it comes to drawing contact/getting to the line, and consistently moving his feet and staying with his man defensively. Not to mention fighting for his rights with refs and physical opponents.

    He's got some major challenges ahead, but I think come March and April you'll see his scoring rise where they need his leadership to be at 25 ppg or higher. If Lu, Joakim, and Booz stay relatively healthy along with Taj this is going to be a nasty team come playoff time. But unlike Doug I think Brewer could be solid at SG rather then one of the worst starters at that position in the league. But he's got me worried with this hammy issue. We'll see.

    But in the long run I think Derrick will be just below a D-Wade with his impact on the game. Definitely a top 7-10 player though for at least three or four seasons when he hits his stride.

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    Wow juice, I dont understand the pessimism...maybe you are trying to temper your expectations so you aren't dissappointed idk. I just don't understand how a player who hasn't even reached his prime would regress. Especially wen the "stars" breakout their 3rd year and given Rose's supreme athleticsm I just don't understand. As long as his D and 3pt shot improve why won't he be vastly improved? If his teamates hit half of the open looks they missed last yr I believe his asst numbers would have been at about 9 or 10 last yr...now he has a bonafide big man who can shoot, post and work well off pick-and-rolls...seriously? Rose is unguardable and often is untouched on his way to the whole which a big reason his FTA are down

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    Wow juice, I dont understand the pessimism...maybe you are trying to temper your expectations so you aren't dissappointed idk. I just don't understand how a player who hasn't even reached his prime would regress. Especially wen the "stars" breakout their 3rd year and given Rose's supreme athleticsm I just don't understand. As long as his D and 3pt shot improve why won't he be vastly improved? If his teamates hit half of the open looks they missed last yr I believe his asst numbers would have been at about 9 or 10 last yr...now he has a bonafide big man who can shoot, post and work well off pick-and-rolls...seriously? Rose is unguardable and often is untouched on his way to the whole which a big reason his FTA are down

  • In reply to mdot1986:

    ...stupid smartphone(catch that?)! Anyways as I was saying his FTA will go up as he developes his NBA savvy. That why his 3pt shot has to improve bc it opens so many options which will make this kid an offensive force! Also, why did u mention wall, a kid who hasn't stepped a foot on the NBA hardwood, in the argument against Rose? How disrespectful! Rose has already proved a lot performing well in post season, and winning ROY honors...the way u threw him under the bus is ABSURD!

  • In reply to mdot1986:

    Yea, idk, I guess it did sound pretty rough, but I am pretty down on Rose. It's not like I think he's a bust or something though. I still think he's a damn good player and will continue to be, but I'm just not sold on his potential.

    I see everyone right now is basically banking on him becoming this top 5, superstar type player, and I'm just not seeing it. Management is selling him as THE guy.

    I think in basketball, more than any sport, you can look to a player's personality to see how good they'll be, and I don't see that attitude in Rose. He doesn't have the swagger to be the kind of player people want him to be. He needs to be coddled constantly by teammates, coaches and fans to be better, and be the man. You think that was ever a problem for Kobe, or D Wade, or any of the great ones?

    Rose is just missing something imo. He'll be a really good player for a long time, which is fine, but if people are expecting him to be the best player on a championship team, I think they'll be very disappointed.

  • In reply to mdot1986:

    hey Doug, great podcast this week, you really make JJ sound like a great person. id like to hear what else he's said. are ya going post his interview? i really hope he gets better or at least gets a chance out there.

  • In reply to mdot1986:

    Hey Doug why isn't anyone even considering the impact that the departure of coach Thibs from boston may have on the Celtics? Obviously he had a lot to do with their defensive schemes, and those might still be used, however with him not being there to help guide them against the new Miami Heat may cause some major problems. I think with coach Thibbs coaching the Bulls, he will definetly help them in their match up with the Celtics. Who better to scheme against the Celtics than someone who coached them.

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    I'm sorry I know I am new to this site, but I had to comment on the response from Juiceboxjerry. You stated that you think he is a little too dumb and too timid to be elite. First off where do you get this perception from, he has continually showed during the season that he has "it" basically from when he was injured last year to becoming a allstar after he came off the western swing when he dominated teams like the Oklahoma City Thunder, Spurs, and the Suns. He also demonstrated consistently during the playoffs against the Cavs, without mind you, the threat of a post up player and legit three point shooter. So saying too dumb is quite harsh and kind of offensive based off of you not knowing the individual at all. I'm pretty sure you are not a bulls fan saying a player that has not even stepped on the court will be beastly when he had more talent at kentucky and could not even dominate lesser competition than when Derrick Rose was at Memphis and dominated during the tournament and led his team to the National Championship game. I'm sorry I just had to vent after I read this "dump" post based off assumptions and not the reality of the situation.

  • In reply to bmoneymaker001:

    Sorry "dumb" post was typing too fast.

  • I think this is the reason why some of us would like for the Bulls to make a trade for Carmelo without giving up Noah, cause I think we all have concerns about Rose's ceiling as far as being one of the top players in the league. no he's not in his prime yet but there is still a lot for him to improve on and if he doesn't continue to improve every year, doubters will continue to be concered about Rose's ability.

  • I think the impact of these schemes are a little bit overrated. Most times teams get these genius coaches who don't have the same impact as they had on the old team. It is probably due to the execution of those schemes like the famous joke about the triangle with MJ. They are replacing him with Lawrence Franks who might do well with tweaking those schemes.
    Coaches earn their money in the playoffs when they can make quick adjustments in a day or two with the strength of their personnel or the weaknesses of the other team.

  • Not to downplay Rose..he has been a little over-hyped. But that said, he has performed in the playoffs which is usually a good indicator. For some reason, lot of people compare him to Steve Francis. But we just don't know and need to wait. I don't think even the 3rd year is make or break.
    Juice...you are way too skeptical. I think the IQ part of his game will come with experience.

  • Also, Jerryjuiceboxjerry you stated he has to be coddle and that he complains. First off people have acknowledge that he does not talk or complain enough because of the limited amount of FTA. I'm sorry he is the anti-Lebron and anti-Kobe in that retrospect. He is respected around the league for his work ethic so your responses are very asinine. Now if he does not show up this year with the talent around him then you can make these responses. Knowing the type of player that Derrick Rose is, I know he will make you eat crow.

  • It might work in reverse, too. The Cs may be even tougher since they know exactly what the Bulls are trying to do. And the Cs presumably do it better after years of practice

  • Coach T should get himself into shape BTW...he looks awful and with the belly roll he could end up with trouble...watch game film on a bike not with jelly donuts (and do not do both at the same time ala Eddy Curry)

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