With the worlds over, what to make of Derrick Rose

I suppose there's room to discuss Omer Asik, but our season doesn't hinge on how well Asik plays.  I was originally pretty high on the idea of Derrick Rose playing for team USA.  I figured the comradery alone with future star players might be worthwhile and playing basketball at a high level never hurts anyone.

After watching much of the knock out round in the World's, I'm going to hope the intangible benefits Rose received of playing from his country and building relationships were worth it, because he's going to have to unlearn almost everything he was doing on the court. 


No, not because he was playing terribly.  Not because he was a train wreck.  Rose played the role he was asked to play.

However, he was largely tentative.   He brought the ball up the court and made the safe pass over and over again.   Every once in awhile he'd overwhelm his opponent with athleticism in the open court, but rarely in the half court.    He looked timid when shooting jumpers, and the results were inconsistent, even when well within his range.  Opposing teams dared him to shoot by the end of the tournament.

If there's any fear I have after watching Rose at the World's, it's that he's a player who needs to shoot a lot of jumpers to find his range.   A guy who's always going to need to put up 18+ shots a game in order to have his mid range game going.   On team USA when he was only putting up 5-6 shots per game his jumper was frequently cold.

Now don't that thought very far.  It's not time for concern, let alone worry, and God forbid, panic.  This isn't an indictment of Rose as a player, nor does it likely translate to anything in terms of the NBA.

The sample size is too small, his role is too different, and the short three point line and trapezoidal lane all combine to create such a different dynamic in terms of spacing that I'm not sure there's much to take away from this from an analytical standpoint.

Also, Derrick played the team game.  He played the role coach K asked him to play.  When listening to him talk, you don't feel like it's a bunch of cliche speak when he says he just wants to win and do his part.  Play his role.   Could Rose have done more if unleashed?   I believe if coach K told him, "Derrick, you need to score for us to win" that he could have.

However, that didn't happen, and I doubt Derrick cares, nor should he.  He's coming home a winner, with a gold, and I believe unlike many athletes, that the winning is all that matters to him.  I think the experience from a personal level was awesome for Rose.  I'm glad he had the opportunity to win gold.   Now he just needs to unlearn everything he did for the past month and get used to being the man again.

Rose wasn't the only Bull in the finals though, for some, it was the first chance to see Omer Asik play against some quality competition in HD rather than on EPSN3's website.   Playing against team USA, Asik looked a lot slower than earlier in the tournament.  He missed a couple gimmies offensively as well, and I'm pretty sure if Stacey King were watching this game, that he'd have been told to buy a dog at least once. 

While Asik had a solid tournament overall, he struggled against team USA, and it certainly wasn't a sign of great things to come.  Watching four separate games where Turkey played it's hard to imagine that Semih Erden (heading to the Celtics) isn't the better prospect of the two.  His offensive game is so much further ahead, he looks much more athletic on the court while listed as only an inch shorter than Asik.

The one "bright" spot for Asik perhaps is that he's a late to basketball guy who didn't start playing until 16 and has missed significant time due to injuries since.  As such, he still has a lot of low hanging fruit in terms of improvement.  However, I'm going to agree with Sam Smith who said Asik will initially land third on the depth chart at C behind Kurt Thomas.

All in all, it was fun watching the World's.  I can't say I'm swelling with civic pride the way the citizens of many countries would be after winning the gold, but I did quite enjoy the fact that everyone ripped on team USA for not playing FIBA style basketball and relying on athleticism.

Well, it worked.   Team USA doesn't have great continuity.  They don't have a bunch of players who get to practice together as much and build chemistry.  They struggle to get guys to come to the worlds at all.  

However, what they did have was tremendous athleticism and the ability to play lock down defense, and they brought it to the opposition every night.  They didn't try to play FIBA ball, they played to their strengths, and it worked.

Congratulations on the gold Derrick, congratulations on the Silver Asik.   Thank you both for giving me something to watch for the past week while I wait for NBA preseason to kick off.


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  • First I wanna say that Derrick doesn't have to unlearn anything.. when you've been playing basketball that long it's like riding a bike. He may defer to Boozer a few times but he knows it's his team and he knows he's the man. If anything they just didn't have the right shooting guards next to him. Thats on coach K. I mean Billups and Derrick Rose thats not the perfect back court. They do too many of the same things.

    Asik didn't impress me much. I just don't think he's quick enough or athletic enough to be anything more than a sub off the bench to spell Noah. He just seems to foul a lot. Well in the NBA those are fouls.

    Still cool that Derrick has a medal. Now he needs a title.

  • In reply to souleater7:

    The Bulls don't have the right shooting guard to pair with Rose either. Bulls really do need another serious offensive weapon who can create his own shot and shoot 3s, preferably at SG. It seems rather obvious that Rose will not be much of a 3pt threat this season.

    Anyone follow Rudy Fernandez stats during FIBA? He shot extremely well. I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin. Whether Rudy's the right man for the job or not, an impact SG is the Bulls biggest need.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Rudy was pretty impressive in the couple of games I watched. Often he would get the other teams defensive stopper and more than hold his own. He attacks, but also has a nice shot. Most impressively, I believe he was Spain's leading rebounder. The dude really skys but also has a good nose for the ball. Before I thought he was just a transition phenomenon who could hit an open 3. He's actually a much better all around player than I though and dangerous on and off the ball. I'd give up the charlotte pick for him now, maybe top 3 protected.

  • In reply to Edward:

    I watched every game.

    I don't think it can be overlooked how well Rose did his job.
    He was the most consistent Guard on the floor in everything except making shots ... and his shot really didn't struggle until the last 2 or 3 games. Worst time for that to happen, but what can you do.

    He made the safe plays. I can just hear Coach K's voice in Derrick's ear saying "Don't turn the ball over." ... over and over and over again.

    He played good defense. Not great, but he didn't gamble and his man didn't beat him very many times. That's better than we've seen from him in the past.

    He lacked aggression. His most aggressive moments were a little at the beginning of games as he'd take a shot or two ... and a bit more to open the second half. Almost every game was like that. I think his aggression was only supposed to try and keep the defenses honest.
    But when he would miss the first couple shots, they predictably started laying off of him and letting him shoot from outside. It's just hard to get in a rhythm shooting one outside shot at the beginning of each half.

    He wasn't going to be a primary scoring option on this team? Could he be? I think so easily. But the roles were pretty clearly defined.
    Outside scoring: Curry, Gordon, Billups
    Inside scoring: Odom, Love
    Everywhere scoring: Durant

    Which left Rose and Westbrook (Iguodala and Gay to a lesser extent) to find their offense where they could. Westbrook was more aggressive, but also made more mistakes. It kinda left Rose to be the more systematic of the two.

    I agree that Rose is going to have to "unlearn" that deferential attitude. Maybe "unlearn" the passive play and lack of aggression.

    But there are several things that he may have learned that I hope he keeps.
    Defense is important.
    Smart play is too. And is better than erratic out of control play.
    How to play with all-star quality teammates.
    How to win tough games. Players play their roles.
    How to be a Champion when many people don't think you're good enough. It's easy to look back and say that this was easy and it was the way it should be. USA kickin butt in basketball. But this team made it look easier than it really was, and I think they deserve a lot of credit for accepting roles and playing hard.

    Derrick Rose is a World Champion.
    Next step? NBA Champion.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Thanks for your post Silverwulf. I always enjoy your comments and since it seems you saw more of the tourney than I did I'll defer to you on Derrick deferring :)

    Sorry to hear the sour reports on Asik though. Can he at least be a solid shot-blocker/rim defender? Teams lost some fear of going inside last year when we lost Tyrus and it would be nice to have some of that back in a less knuckleheaded package like Asik.

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    No problem ...
    He's gonna be just fine.
    I think this was a great experience for him.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Thanks for your post Silverwulf. I always enjoy your comments and since it seems you saw more of the tourney than I did I'll defer to you on Derrick deferring :)

    Sorry to hear the sour reports on Asik though. Can he at least be a solid shot-blocker/rim defender? Teams lost some fear of going inside last year when we lost Tyrus and it would be nice to have some of that back in a less knuckleheaded package like Asik.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Why are you worried about how Rose played? If you know a small amount about him you know that he plays to what he is suppose to do. He had a team full of players and his role was to be a point guard not a scoring point guard. Just imagine what he played with this group, MJ, Pip, Rodman and Lue what would expect him to average? I say he did exactly what Coach K wanted from his point guard but I can tell you that when the NBA season starts what you thought was missing will show up every game

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    I think Rose will be better than most people think.I will go as far to say he will have a breakout season. watch out!!!!!

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    I couldn't disagree more with anyone who thinks Derrick rose wans't expected to be a big part of this team. All the media pub for the European warmups and starting the tourney were on Durant and Derrick Rose. Who else on the team scored 27 ppg in the playoffs at 21 years old?

    I agree with the sentiments that Derrick played tentative. Early on he played fairly well, but his overreliance on one handed shots of all varieties around the basket(which is normally around 5% of his game/shots) to me really threw him off kilter.

    Derrick's a great kid, and even though IMO he did not play well/deteriorated as the tournament moved along as evidenced by his drop in scoring, he still could be a scoring force this year for the Bulls.

    It's just funny that no one mentions the team's total (over)reliance on Durant. Of course the rationalization wil be if K.D. is that hot why not milk him. But the fact is that things would have been more in the spirit of team, winning, and just plain fun if they didn't have to. There's just no question in my mind that Derrick really tightened up as the tourney went along. It's funny how the atmosphere right now seems to be that anyone criticizing Derrick's game thinks he's a loser or ought to be traded as one overreacting reply - IMO responded.

    I viewed the FIBA rules of no three seconds with big not so talented (not one black guy teams) clogging the lane as lame. Derrick had trouble with this as well as his confidence faltered he looked shaky as a ballhandler when he did try to go inside in the halfcourt.

    To me what stands out as weird in this FIBA play too is teams with all white?Euro/no black guys guys. I mean nobody comments on that, but it's strange to see such segregation with a dominant presence of black/african-american players in the NBA/Team USA. Of course these countries have much less immigration and thus integration, but still, Turkey, Serbia etc. don't you have any black guys playing basketball or living in your country? Struck me as a bit surreal anyway.

    Again, the replys and comments that lambast others as stupid or inept for the tack people take is such a lame expose only of the poster who responds in such a fashion. If something is inferior or insignificant in your mind that doesn't mean you are the universal model that it is so in truth. Unless someone is just completely overly negative or just bating people with the same tired subject ad nauseum it's smarter just to leave others comments to their own value/worth. Or if you must criticize just say you disagree without these arrogant blanket I'm right you're a dumbass rebukes. it's so juvenile and lame.

    Anyway, I personally thought this was a pretty mixed experience for Derrick, and one that might challenege his confidence a bit because he definitely lost his way, and just got IMO very I don't know if fearful is the right word, but constricted to the point that his scoring game in particular really kind of fell apart.

    But sometimes when you fall down it makes you a better person for it, and I do think if this is a vulnerability in Derrick not adapting well to new environments or being overwhelmed by the unkown maybe he will be much better for it, and become that much stronger as a person and a ballplayer.

    And I think he will succeed because I believe Derrick has it in him to become a superstar(25 ppg, playoff elevated scoring totals, with an all around good game with no major flaws - except maybe three point shooting which will improve eventually), and will do so.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I think the explanation for the lack of black players on the teams may be quite simple ... Soccer.
    The vast majority of these countries still view Soccer in much higher regard, and immigrants from African nations probably even more.
    Btw, I lived in Europe for two years. Things have probably changed in the 15 years since I was there, but you just didn't see kids out playing basketball ... they were all out playing Soccer. Even in countries that really like Basketball like Italy.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    There's an ESPN Insider article about "Blazers to deal Rudy Fernandez soon." Can someone copy/paste it here for all of us to read? Thanks!

  • FIBA basketball has a tendency to make good young NBA players look tentative so I'm not too worried about DRose. I watched Asik in the last 2 games and was thoroughly unimpressed. He should stay in Europe, because sitting on the bench for the Bulls will not develop his game.

  • In reply to brickben:

    Working with Thibaudeau in practice will though

  • Everyone has issues with Rose as a game manager and I really don't the area that the Bulls need him to truly improve on sans defense is his scoring because that is where he can be an elite player. Everyone can keep their TRUE PG talk and all the other stuff spewed Derrick's way. I wish he hadn't tinkered with his jumper he looked so much better last year shooting that shot.

    Doug I don't think it's that Rose is a volume shooter, it was his confidence that was the biggest issue. Another thing is when Rose isn't really asked to score that much or needed to he doesn't tend to be as locked in even when shooting the ball. Rose doesn't need a lot of shots to get him going he needs to hit his 1st jumper or get a couple lay-ins first come on haven't you watched him for 2 years?

  • What I worry is his confidence in his shot. Looking tentative in passing is understandable because he was not the primary option and was probably told to pass to Durant/Billups. That's not a worry but I worry about shot making. If he couldn't make shots from a shorter 3-point line when left wide open...that's worrisome. Without the Bulls having other 3 point shooters than Korver, it makes it tougher if Rose has lost confidence or doesn't extend his range in his shots

    About Asik.., I think he played pretty well for his role. He got more rebounds/played decent defense compared to Erden. Erden looks a little more athletic than Asik. I think the whole Turkey team was spent yesterday...so it is not really a good reflection of Asik's play yesterday as the barometer. If he works on his FT shooting and does well in training camp, he can be the backup to Noah.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    keep in mind the distance from which he was shooting FIBA 3 pointers is considered the worst shot in the NBA, the long 2 pointer. Derrick claimed he would stay after every practice over there taking NBA 3s.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    The point though if he cannot shoot 2-pointers...can he shoot long 3s? It is obvious(atleast from the world championships) that for all his claims of 3 pt shooting practice, he is still not comfortable shooting jump shots. He is one more summer away from shooting 3s and long 2s.
    And this leads to the question of whether he can play off-guard with Watson or somebody else if he is tired or somebody like Wade/LBJ starts defending him and is all over him during PG play...

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    he can shoot 2 pointers, I watched him all last year shoot it well, and I expect him to be even better this year. I also expect better 3 shooting, he was practicing NBA 3's all this summer, not FIBA 3's.

    You guys are all over reacting to 2-3 incosistent shooting games. Way too small of a sample size. Plus, a guy like Rose needs the swagger of beiong the man. When he is forced to be that, he will have confidence in his jumper. That is the only thing holding his jumper back, his confidence.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    It's not overreacting. His shooting looked shaky and it looked doubtful about his claims about his shooting good percentage 3s. He was playing against decent competition and in a pressure packed atmosphere. He had to convert some of them during the Knock-Out rounds to prove he is a clutch shooter. There will be more pressure on him to succeed now compared to the last 2 years.
    I am not saying Rose is going to regress as a player but a lot of us are anointing him a superstar or a top 10 player a little too soon. We just need some patience with him and hopefully he will make a big jump this year. But there is no doubt he is probably a smarter player from this experience but how he takes over during clutch times against good teams in close games will determine if he is ascending towards the superstar status we all hope and want.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I watched Turkey's last 2 games. Asik looked good in the semi-finals. Semih Erden did even get on my radar. He is same age, smaller and didn't play as many minutes in the Worlds. Not sure why one would think he is a better prospect.

  • In reply to ChiRy:


    Floyd Mayweather Jr. threatened to KILL CJ Miles, who is involved with his woman.


    RIDICULOUS...CJ Miles needs to get this crap behind him ASAP.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    That's CJ Watson and boy do I wish it was CJ Miles. Is Watson's contract insured for massive beat-downs?

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    This guy is the only other PG/ball handler on the Bulls. If Rose is tired after the FIBA cup and he needs to play some minutes initially, I hope he is focussed. It is his personal life but hopefully nothing to distract him from his primary job. The Bulls better plan to have John Lucas III to be on the final team..

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    i wonder if you guys saw the young players from serbia,lituania,russia? those guys don't mis a 3 point shot i wonder for who their playing? those guys are young,big and atletic and they can shoot!

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    My goodness you are all reallyovr-reacting to Rose's last 2-3 games in this tournament. He is a good shooter. Mark my words: He will be a great mid-range shooter, good long 2 shooter, and a good 3 point shooter, all this year. Can't believe all of you are doubting this great young player already.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I think Derrick did spectacular in the Worlds. I get where your coming from about his lack of scoring but most of the time he didn't need to. If you look at the turnovers by Team USA and the periods that other teams made runs it was with Rose on the bench. The reason he started over Westbrook (a legitimate NBA Starter) is because Westbrook though offensively dominant couldn't keep the offense moving. What Rose was there to provide is Defense, running the fast break, and most importantly controlling the tempo in the half court for team USA. If he can bring that to the Bulls then all the better. He regularly had less turnovers than the other three point guards on the team while playing the second most minutes behind Kevin Durrant in all but one game. I think Derrick did AMAZING and I am looking forward to the start of the season.

  • Absolutely agree. No need to worry about Rose's scoring because Thibodeau will tell him to shoot. Above all else, Rose showed he is coachable and a winner. His job was to play defense and get the ball to Durant, who was unbelievable. And playing next to Billups didn't help anything. Every brick Billups put up made him that much hungrier for the next shot. Billups was chasing the ball and forcing things. Nobody looks good playing next to a guy like that.

    When he needed to Rose looked electric. He had a stretch where he went assist, bucket, bucket, assist in the second half to really break the game open. There is nothing to worry about with Rose.

  • Depending on what you are looking for, I'd say Asik is the better prospect of the two. He's bigger and stronger. Erden looks like a finesse Euro player. He's going to struggle with stronger players. So as far as backup C goes, I'd want Asik. I don't think Erden even makes the C's this year. They've already got 3 centers with two O'Neal's and Perkins. Erden would never play.

  • Agreed, & keep in mind, like Doug said, this is such a small sample size, it could be that his shot is very improved, and he just went a little cold after the quarters, like all shooters are prone to do.
    But about counting on Rose, we do need him to shoot the 3, because if he doesn't, where else will it come from?

  • Question about Rudy...If the Bulls acquire Rudy before training camp at end of Sep/beg Oct....Can they trade him again at Feb deadline say for example Melo is available?

  • This is a tragic case of over-analysis. Rose was not the centerpiece of the team and everybody knew that...Durant was. But Rose WAS one of the most vocal, because Coach K practically forced Rose to be. Rose did have a leadership role on the team, he has always deferred to his teammates. I really don't think he has to prove anything in the World Championships. Plus, didn't you say that Deng's successes in international play were inconsequential and you said that he wasn't much more than a role player when playing in the NBA?

  • I agree with Mitchell, Rudy Fernandez would be a nice addition to the Bulls. I hope they can get a deal done.

  • In reply to thegreatlie:

    There's an ESPN Insider article about "Blazers to deal Rudy Fernandez soon." Can someone copy/paste it here for all of us to read? Thanks!

  • Thanks Mitchell.
    That's pretty lame of ESPN Insider. The Portland Tribune is a free once-a-week paper. The Oregonian is the main news source in Portland.

  • From Insider:
    "Rudy Fernandez wants out of Portland and general manager Rich Cho is willing to oblige the Spaniard if it helps the team. Kerry Eggers of The Portland Tribune spoke with Cho on Sunday and thinks a deal could be made in the near future.

    Eggers writes: quote that Mitchell Wiggins has above...

    Fernandez, who's been rumored to be traded to Boston, Chicago or New York, will be fined if he doesn't show up for the beginning of training camp in two weeks."

    Derrick was playing really well in the beginning of the tournament but REALLY dropped off until the second half of the gold medal game. I don't believe that he was a starter to be a pass first PG. I don't think Coach K told him to be a distributor and not turn the ball over. You'll notice at the beginning of each half of almost all the games Derrick was really aggressive. Making a lot of drives to the basket and putting up a lot of shots. I'd be interested to see how many of his 3pt attempts came in the first 5 minutes of each half. I'd wager 90-95%. He just seemed to lose confidence if his first few shots didn't fall. When he came to the bench after scoring those 6 points in the second half, Coach K went right to him with a big smile and hugged him. I think they were looking for Derrick to be aggressive. It was clear no one could stay in front of him.

    Because of what I just saw, I almost feel like we are better off with Carmelo. I worry that given a legit #1 scoring option in front of him will hurt Derrick's confidence. I think he needs to be the #1 scoring option, and I think Boozer is the perfect #2.

    On Omer Asik, I saw very little from him that I liked in the tournament. Against smaller players he did show decent footwork (though I think he just needs to slow down), and a decent shot around the rim. That said, he got BEASTED most of the times I was watching. He would try to back down players on the block and he was getting pushed further away from the rim... not good. The worst was when Andre Iguodala (Andre Iguodala!) was playing center defending him. He outplayed him and outhustled him for rebounds. He should've destroyed him.

    The only thing that gives me any reason for hope is to see the growth and strength of Joakim Noah. Hopefully Asik is coming over soon to work with our trainers to get stronger down there.

  • In reply to johnbegone:

    Thanks, johnbegone, for posting the full Insider article. Interesting to know that the Portland Tribune writer did actually interview Portland GM Rich Cho.

  • I've heard from some that Derrick strggled most when Billups was also on the court. Anything to that? Because if it's true that would affect my opinion of Carmelo. Is it possible that Billups is an anchor that slows down an offense? Because part of my hangup about Melo is he seems to prefer working in an ultra slow half court set. But maybe that rap should be laid on Chauncey instead. What say you all?


    That's what EVERYONE, except Kevin Durant was asked to be and do during the W.C.

    Derrick Rose played very well for team USA. He won the game vs. Spain in Spain. He was named MVP for the game vs. GREECE in GREECE. Showed poise and some dominance in the game vs. Brazil. And had a hand in 10 of the first 15 points of the 4th quarter in yesterday's Championship game vs. Turkey, which put the game out of reach.

    That said, he still has the same weaknesses. He can't seem to get to the FT-line and he still is looking for a CONSISTENT 3pt. shot.

    He's a work-a-holic, so I'm sure Derrick Rose will be ready to go when the NBA season roles around in the coming months. I'm excited to see how his EXPERIENCE with being apart of a CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM pays off for him and the Bulls this year and beyond.

    I have no doubt that Derrick Rose will GROW AS A PLAYER immensely from this experience. Every Bulls' fan should stand up and applaud the kid for helping to bring the World Championship Naismith Trophy back to the birthplace of basketball, the United States of America.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Just a suggestion:


  • In reply to bryield:

    There is NO BOLD or UNDERLINE on here.

  • Yeah, I saw where Asik bailed with a fake eye injury down the stretch of the Serbia game. Still, his FT isn't ugly, I think it is more of a reps/confidence thing than anything. Erden didn't strike me as special in any way and he was getting worked by Odom. Asik was getting offensive boards in traffic, just not finishing. I think he has plenty of potential.

  • Redwhitenblack,

    Opps...it was 1:35am when I posted that.

    For a guy who is a self-proclaimed religious man, CJ certainly isn't acting very religious by hooking up with another man's woman. Maybe he should start practicing what he preaches.

    Put him on the February trade-deadline watch.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Agree with you about Watson being traded, but for different reasons. Not sure he'll be able to perform in a more disiplined offense. Wouldn't mind being wrong about that though.

  • Turkey, Serbia and other East European countries are kind of one ethnicity and race countries. And they are not the most attractive countries for immigration either. So, that's one more reason you don't find black athletes in those teams. But France, England , Australia seem have to a good mix of different races as they have immigration like the US.

  • This tournament was actually vintage Derrick Rose. He has the skill of a scoring PG but the mentality of a facilitating PG. I read other blogs where people talked about how Rose was overrated because of the low numbers he was putting up in the Worlds (these people must not have watched him in the regular season), but guess what, he was never taken out of the starting lineup. The reason is because he was doing EXACTLY what coach K wanted him to do: play tough defense and facilitate.

    His shot was inconsistent but he really didn't look for his shot consistently. I think Rose grew as a leader and that's the main thing. I'm not sure how much I'd read into the defense he played, though. For the most part, he played against lesser PG's than he'll see in the NBA and in the Worlds he was free to expend much more energy on the defensive end because of his shorter minutes. I'm not saying he didn't grow as a defender. In fact, I'm sure he has because he's constantly working on his game. I just can't make that determination from the Worlds.

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