Noah "isn't happy" with 5/57 offer from Bulls

Per Alex Kennedy's twitter (tweet1) (tweet2):

Noah has popped up in trade rumors but he won't be moved. The real drama
unfolding is the Bulls trying to ink an extension with Noah's camp.

The
contract extension the Chicago Bulls offered Joakim Noah several weeks
ago was actually a five-year, $57 million deal. Noah isn't happy.

I can certainly understand why Joakim Noah wants a bigger offer from the Bulls.  I have absolutely no problem with him saying no to a 5/57 deal.   After the Bulls made him off limits for Melo, and the fans, by and large, agree that they don't want to include Noah for Melo, it's hard to then say "you're only worth 10 million a year". 

That being said, this is an early extension.  Noah has played at a level deserving of 8 figures for about 3/4ths of one season in his career, and was injured the rest of that time.  I see no issue at all with only offering around 11.5 million a season, and I think that's probably a bit more generous than I would open up with.

Historically, the Bulls have had a "no negotiation" stance on early contract offers.   They've made them to BG, Deng, and Hinrich at the very least, once those offers were made they did not budge from them and left it up to the player to accept or reject that offer. 

Is the same thing going to happen with Noah?   I expect that it will.  I don't see any incentive for the Bulls to improve their offer.   Is it hard to imagine Noah having an injury this year?   Is it hard to imagine his numbers decreasing with Boozer in the fold?    I think Noah's stats are going to go down this year even without injury.

Plus, with the uncertainty of a new CBA, it's highly likely that the terms of the negotiation will significantly favor Bulls management next summer.   The Bulls 5/57 could be a max offer next summer, and other teams may only be able to extend players for up to four seasons significantly lowering his ability to go elsewhere. 

I think Noah has very little upside to not take this deal now, and he has considerable downside to passing on it.  If I was Joakim Noah, I would take this deal.  He'll fight and argue for more, but the Bulls have cemented their reputation on how they deal with early extensions, and I doubt they're going to change it up at this point. 

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  • I've said it time and again,Noah is literally my favorite player in the NBA. That said, I'd gladly help pack his bags if it brought us 'melo. Screw the 'intangibles' he brings, I'd rather have tangibles, like say, a championship.Chicago fans can sure be mind boggling. Just a little side rant in response to your first graph, my apologies.

    As far as his contract goes I totally agree. Especially considering the fact that we'll be in the lux tax in the future, I'm surprised that they didn't open up with 5/50 or something like that. It's a good fair offer, imo.

  • In reply to fola:

    Totally agree with your first sentence, the rest not so much.

    I absolutely agree with the Bulls stance, they made a more than fair offer to Noah, one which he is not likely to match or exceed in the new CBA.

    unlike Doug, i expect him to be better this season, even with Boozer around, I don't think that he is as much of an injury risk as Deng, PF can be over come ala Scottie Pippen.

    I would not trade him for Melo with this team as currently structured, unless that same trade shipped out Deng for a competitive replacement for Noah(Nene or better).

    However, 5/60 would be stretching the absolute limit of what I could stand to pay Noah, so if he doesn't jump on the deal the Bulls have offered it will be a good deal for the Bulls since they will eventually get him for less.

  • Two things: first, this is about as high as a Noah deal can get before he enters the Deng zone of "I feel like he should be better if he is taking up all that cap space." No, he isn't a franchise centerpiece, he's a great complementary piece that the bulls need to lock in if they are serious about competing for championships. Basically, he is Hinrich or Deng, very good at a couple things, but you can't build a team around him and get anywhere.

    Second, I wouldn't be surprised if the new CBA allows teams to sign their own FA at a considerably higher amount to what they can get from another team. Owners are pissing themselves that their cornerstone franchise players are bolting, largely because they make so much more money in endorsements, and teams can only get 20 cents on the dollar in trade because the league is so deprived of talent. The spread between staying and going is going to be a lot more than 1 year and 10%. This works in Noah's favor.

  • Do you think the Bulls are telling Noah if you don't sign an extension, you are out of here for Melo...which means they like him and want him at a good price rather than an inflated price or even negotiate later.
    Otherwise, I don't see the reason for a contract now.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    They wouldn't because even if Denver wanted him, he'd have to be agreeing to and extension. I think.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    5/57 is more than fair for Noah - he's no all-star and never will be with Howard, Bogut, Lopez in the Eastern conference. If, like he says, Noah really wants to stay in Chicago and build a winning team he will sign. If he doesn't sign he hurts team chemistry like Gordon and Deng a few years ago.

    Sign the extension, Noah!

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Noah is a wounded flyweigth just like Deng! Noah gets schooled by good & strong centers and forwards! Will these two miss 25 or 50 games between them????

    Only a trainee like Paxson would continue to over pay for over rated playes like the No-Shot Noah, the fragile Deng and Klank Hinrich the clock eater!

  • In reply to Alex:

    HA!

  • In reply to adamlweber:

    This is the maximum effort than anybody should expend in responding to the long lost one.

  • In reply to adamlweber:

    At 5/57 Noah is likely the best of the journeyman type centers than inhapbit the NBA and make $10 to $13 million per, see Chandler, Dampier, Haywood and any other number of these types.

    I am far happier to pay NOah at this level than I was to pay Hinrich, Deng or Gordon at the levels that they got paid.

    I hope that the Bulls will keep to their policy of not negotiating early extensions, I predict that Noah will sign by the deadline, and if he doesn't he will lose some of his popularity.

    The Bulls have to maintain an appropriate salary structure for the team. With Boozer at $15-$16 million, and Rose sure to be a max salary(whatever that number will be) and Deng already overpaid and maybe at the level of the new max contract, Noah cannot be paid at the level of Boozer, Rose or Deng.

    5/57 is more than fair, and exactly what they offered Deng at this point in his career, and given the new CBA might be the best offer he will ever get.

  • In reply to Alex:

    I've got to admit, funny nick names but your perception of Noah is about as skewed as Hinrich's clock management. Noah struggled at times because his sidekick on the inside was "Real Bad" Brad Miller. He was much more successful paired with Taj Gibson and will now have either Boozer or Taj beside him every play.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    Hey csguru,

    Klank Hinrich managed the clock by dribbling in circles until 5 seconds were left then he passed to a double covered Gordon or Rose!!!!

  • In reply to Alex:

    yea.. hence the comparison to your logic on Noah.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    Could this a stall tactic so Noah won't be included on a Melo deal? By Noah's camp?

  • In reply to Alex:

    Bulls cant really lose on this. If Noah accepts, they have an excellent contract based on others around the NBA.

    If Noah refuses, he plays another year while Bulls retain all matching rights. In that year, Bulls can observe if Noah stays healthy & how he interacts with new teammates.

    Fans should not think "Oh, he's not signing so we must trade him". This is just an early extension & the player needs to sacrifice some pay in exchange for security.

    Only Hinrich ever accepted the Bulls early extension offer. Deng & Gordon refused (but Deng signed the following year). No early offers were made to Crawford, Chandler, Curry or Tyrus.

    If Noah doesnt sign it is no big deal.

  • In reply to bulls6:

    bulls6,

    Excellent post!

    Do you really think that the stinking trainee Paxson is smart enough to wait another year! Foot injuries for tall players like Noah are commons!

    Paxson grossly over paid the over rated Klank Hinrich and the Fragile Deng!

  • In reply to Alex:

    Add Nocioni to the list of over-paid Bulls. And if Gordon had accepted Bulls extension offer he'd have been over-paid too. Gordon's over-paid in Detroit now.

    Seems every starter in the NBA thinks there worth all-star money, in reality their worth $6-8 million. And as soon as those extensions are signed no teams want them in trade as they're overpaid.

    Question: At 5/57 is Noah overpaid?

  • In reply to Edward:

    Edward

    No-Shot Noah spent the first 1.5 years on the bench winded. Physically he has serious foot injuries and he is a weakling! Bogut, Gasol,Bosh and many others like Boozer,Perkins,Davis and others push him around under the rim!

    6-8 Milliion is enough for the Floruida fairy but we all know that Pax is a dunce!

    The UC is full and as long as Pax is here the Bulls will not win anything! Getting into the playoffs is nothing!

  • In reply to Alex:

    he hasn't put together a full season of elite play by any means. thus he is being a greedy swine. Stay healthy show effort and then get paid. Bring in Damps as a back up either way for insurance.

  • In reply to drob:

    drob....Are you and Alex brothers?
    You write the same trash. Illogical and stupid. You sound more like a "swine," you moron.

  • In reply to Normie:

    Hey Boss,

    Are you 11 or 12? Does Mom know that you are on the computer insulting people that are so much smarter than you.

    Are you a internet and a telephone terrorist?

    How long have you been dating Noah? What do you like about him?

  • In reply to Alex:

    Nice try, FAGGOT!

  • In reply to Alex:

    Bigway, "Noah is likely the best of the journeyman type centers". I like that phrase, very accurate!

    What will happen with journeyman Erick Dampier now that Miami has passed on him? He reportedly had an offer for $2mil per for 2 years from Houston. Should Bulls be interested at that salary? But then Asik would get zero minutes and they are committed to him for 3 years, so I doubt Bulls will pursue Dampier unless the very unlikely trading of Noah occurred.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Edward....You endorse Bigway's stupid misuse of the word "journeyman" when referring to Noah. You and Bigway need to pay attention to word usage. Not because it sounds pretty it's used accurately.
    Webster's particularly stresses a "journeyman" is an "experienced, performer or athlete." Note the use of the word "experienced." You consider Noah "experienced"?
    You and Bigway need some tutoring in grammar and the use of words, moron.

  • In reply to Normie:

    given your little tete-a-tete with Alex above, I don't think that either Edward or I will be taking any advice from you, grammar or otherwise.

    If we decided to stoop to childish assinine name calling we might give you a call.

    F.Y.I. a journeyman(in sports vernacular) is a well traveled player who is always able to find a job and a decent contract, which is exactly what Dampier, Chandler and Haywood are or have become.

    I compare Noah to them because his contract will be in the neighborhood of what each of them currently makes or recently made.

    I will gladly compare educational credentials and intellectual abilities with those of your ilk on this site any time anywhere.

    You need to look up the meaning of moron, in your mirror.
    He is clearly better than they are because he is still on the way up, but everybody felt that they were overpaid at this level.

  • In reply to bulls6:

    You are absolutely correct in every regard. However, if he doesn't sign we will be tortured with posts like this and all the reponses it engenders for at least a year and maybe as long as 2 or even 3 years.

    So I hope that he signs by the deadline to spare us all the angst, and because Rose not withstanding Noah is my favorite Bull.

  • In reply to bulls6:

    To all you Bulls fans who are arguing over Joakim Noah's worth, I'll say this, THROW HIM ON THE MARKET AND YOU'LL SEE HOW MUCH HE'S WORTH.
    I'm sure Phil Jackson and the Lakers are very interested. They would give you Andrew Bynum and his much vaunted potential for Noah. That should make you all happy.
    Noah has a thing going with Jackson and the Buss family. He would be great in LA where they like colorful characters like Noah who who have guts and can play. http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15307/noah-tops-jackson-by-talk-ko

  • Bulls will not trade Noah - but they have no incentive to increase this offer. Noah still has feet problems & his numbers are certain to go down.

  • In reply to bulls6:

    Correct, Wrong and Wrong.

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