Noah holding out for 70 million?

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Per Hoopsworld's twitter:

Sources tell
HOOPSWORLD Joakim Noah has 5-year $60 million extension offer from
Chicago, is holding out for bigger deal $70-$75 million

First, I caution you with Hoopsworld.   I don't think Hoopsworld makes things up, but I do think they print anything regardless of how weakly sourced it is.  So while acknowledging this could simply be BS, let's pretend for a moment it isn't.

What I find somewhat amusing about this is that many Bulls fans view Noah as untouchable, but then many of them will follow that up by saying 70 million for Noah is ridiculous.   You can't really have it both ways can you?

As for the salary, 5/60 is as much as I'm paying Noah this off-season.   The new CBA will likely limit the Bulls risk exposure next season even if he has an outstanding year the new max contract next season is probably no more than 5/70 (I expect years to go down as well as starting salary).

There's simply no reason to move further ahead than 5/60 right now as Noah's downside risk is much greater than his upside risk.  He's likely to change his mind, and if not, he's the one who risks the most not the Bulls.

That said, I don't blame him for holding out.   I said that we wouldn't extend Noah this off-season because it'd simply not in our best interest to do so.  David Lee got 6/80, of course Noah wants 70.   Brendan Haywood is about to exit his prime and got 9 million a season.   With the deals being handed out, I can't blame Noah at all for his stance on his contract.

It will be interesting to see where this leads.

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  • Doug,
    You sure had it right when you earlier said, once Noah signs his extension he'll be overpaid. He's not an all-star and won't be in in the East with Howard, Bogut, Lopez. Yet he wants to be paid like he's already made the all-star team twice? Its another Luol Deng contract in the making.

    Bulls are better off waiting for the new CBA. It makes sense for both Noah and Rose's contracts to be signed under the new CBA. That's the smart move, I hope Bulls wait til next year.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Edward:

    Although I don't think it's completely impossible, no Noah's more than likely not an all-star. But he is a proven playoff performer. And if the Bulls are going to pay a guy a premium salary at this point, that's the best reason to do it.

  • In reply to Edward:

    I think offering Noah 5/60 was a smart move by the Bulls (if this is in fact true). It put out an offer that is "generous" when considering where the new CBA may be, but "stops short" when considering the current CBA.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Let's suppose for the sake of argument that Noah's added muscle has reached a point that he now doesn't get bumped out of the way around the basket/can hold his own with the bigs boys Bogut etc. And his value defensively is one of a lane shutdown second team/best behind Howard. And his boards are empowered to 13-14 a game with two blocks and 13-14 opportunity points from 35 minutes on the floor with Boozer, Rose, and a deep talented team. That makes him an extremely valuable player.

    Still, he's not a protoypical money maker as he is not a prolific scorer. The attitude that guys should try to get every penny they can get does that apply to someone who's not a prolific scorer?

    I say no. $60 Million dollars is not enough for the ultimate blue collar workhorse to live on? Does he see himself effecting winning in a major way? Yes. Is Joakim real enough to see his standard of pay different then a prolific scorer, and be real enough to pursue his financial rewards within that practical construct so as to remain with the Bulls? I certainly think he is that type of unique person of standards and not just going to pursue the final dollar no matter what the consequences ala Deng.

    Noah if he has reached immovable defensive anchor/non-liability status/no chinks in the armor defensively status then he is worth $12-13 Mil a year as a premier workhorse, but non-prolific scorer. Hopefully his agent will respect Jokaim's realization of this, and not meet the phony prerequisite foisted by the media and other players that no matter what your skillset you're worth max money if you can get it. It really deopends on what your personal goals are.. winning or the utlimate paycheck?

  • In reply to Edward:

    Noah is a role player who disappers against tough and good centers and forwards

    No-Shot Noah gets pushed around under the rim as if he were on roller skates! He has bad feet and he will never be an All-Star!
    He spent the first two years on the bench because he was a winded
    weakling!

    Trade this Florida Fairy and the Frail Deng for Carmelo!

  • In reply to Edward:

    Also with the salary structure set to change/decline with the new CBA, if Joakim/his agent do decline $12-13 then does common sense say you wait until after the season/new CBA for the next round of talks? He'd be on a qualifying offer of some $4 Mil. Could someone else offer him a bitter pill of $14-15 Mil that we then feel compelled to swallow or would the new CBA come first/obliterate that?

  • In reply to Edward:

    I don't understand the reason for Noah's extension now. Let some other team set the next year with the new CBA and the Bulls can match it. It is probably going to be less than 5/60 or it.

  • In reply to Edward:

    I mean it will close to 5/60 or somewhere around that number. I think Noah is professional enough to understand that and will not sulk unlike Deng/Gordon during their contract years. I think by doing this, they are losing the advantage of a good draft.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Doug - like your stuff and follow you on twitter, but when I try to load Chicago Bulls Confidential on the blackberry, your black background swallows up and covers everything but the first line of the story and the title of your post. Any way to test that and see if it can be fixed?

  • In reply to gadaly:

    iPhone. Problem solved.

  • In reply to Edward:

    If he wants that much then trade him....Send him an Deng on their way an get Melo. Asik is just as good as anyone on the heat have. The next couple years we have to draft bigs an go after bigs in free agency.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Rose had a bad game today. He looks very tentative. I don't know if it is mental fatigue and doesn't look as energetic as Westbrook

  • In reply to Edward:

    Unless we get Noah for a discount(5/50) there is no reason to sign him now. It will be better to wait for the certainty of the new CBA. And 5/60 is the max that I am going for Noah. I think that he is worth more than Deng, but we overpaid Deng.

    Personally, I agree that the new deal will shorten contracts to 5 years for the home team and 4 for free agents.

    However, I am not sure that the max will decline much, unless the overall cap declines significantly.

    What I think will change is the annual raise. The old 8,10,12 percent regime was always the biggest problem.

    Max contracts should remain a flat percentage of the salary cap, so in effect there would be no certainty for the player or the team, it could go up or it could go down depending on each years cap.

    Getting a 10% raise every year guarantees that a max contract becomes a larger and larger share of the overall payroll each year, which is how guys like Kobe, Amare, Melo have grandfathered deals that exceed todays max.

    Think about it if you got a minimum wage job($8/hr) at age 18 with a guaranteed 10% raise every year your wage would double every 7 years or so.

    Anyone take this deal, I would.

    At 25 you make $16/hr, or $32,000 per year
    At 32 you make $32/hr, or 64,000 per year
    At 39 you make $64/hr, or 128,000 per year
    At 46 you make 128hr, or 256,000 per year
    At 53 you make 256/hr, or 512,000 per year
    At 60 you make 512/hr, or 1,024,000 per year
    At 67 you make 1024/hr, or $2,048,000 per year.

    We could elimante social security, nobody would ever retire.

  • Go with $65 and split the difference.

    That's $13 million per season, which is perfect because he wears #13...haha.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's a good one.....

    Anyway....David Lee only got paid like that because of all the extra money and space floating around this off season. I'm glad we're not stuck paying a player of his caliber that amount of money (yet). We should maybe go a little higher, but 70 is ridiculous.

    Oh...Mr. Happy....in case you missed it, I found you on Youtube last night:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZd_OxdgmOg

    ...mmm.

  • IF he is healthy I will be dissapointed with anything less than 13 & 13. He wasn't far off last year before the PF hit.

  • Which is exactly why there is not reason to go beyond 5/60 at this point.

    The Bulls are doing exactly what they did with Hinrich, Deng and Gordon. They are offering a good fair deal early. Hinrich took his and ran. Deng and Gordon declined got more money the following year and all three were viewed as untradable contracts the minute they signed.

    Given the likely reduced salary structue of the new CBA Noah should jump on the Bulls offer, and he is lucky to get it.

    As much as I love the guy from day one, if he asks for a penny more, I say F him.

  • Even with a good year is isn't getting 5/80 so why give him 5/70 now.

  • Also lost is the fact that Melo at 4/82 isn't very attractive either.

    At that price Deng at 4/51 doesn't look as bad.

    You should be able to get a real NBA player for the difference 4/31, that is half a max player. especially in the new economy.

  • BTW, Asik seems to be a complete wuss or a smart player depending on how you look. He got fouled in the last min of a close game and sat himself down for a fake injury. It doesn't look like he can replace Noah during the final minutes of a close playoff game?

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I am pretty sure that we didn't sign him to replace Noah in the final minutes of a playoff game.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I know we didn't sign him for the final minutes. But there were a lot of people including myself who think Noah should be dealt for an average center somebody like Asik if we are getting Melo. It shows how tough it is find complete/decent overall game centers compared to other positions..

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    lets just say i told you so if this is true.. chicago unless he's dealt for melo will almost def pony it up..

    is joakim even worth really 5/60 million with his biggest strength being rebounding?

    if joakim isnt "jokim" then this isnt funnny at all..

    thats going into the absurb territory..

    if he does want this then two picks and deng & noah for nene & melo im all for ..

    5/70? thats 20 million more then what we wanted to give gordon who was atleast the best player on our team most of his tenure without any injury or body concern..

    please be fake i was actually trying to like keeping joe if it came atleast 5 yrs for 60 mill.. but 70? he barely was even worth the 5/60 thats on the table.. if he wants to use its a business thing and fight for 10 million he doesnt deserve then trading for melo and trying to win is part of a business too..

    keep taj..

    deng,noah,bobcats 1st & bulls 1st and cash

    melo,nene,maybe affalo? or bring parker in a three team with smith going to cleveland? idk..

  • Even though this is from Hoopsworld and I usually take their stories lightly as possible. But I will not be surprise if Joakim Noah is holding out more, I do not blame him for that, I will do the same thing as well to see if I can get more. Right now, again assuming if this is true that he'll is looking other options is out there.

    I am one of those people wants to keep Joakim Noah and not willing to trade him for Carmelo Anthony for many reasons. But I will mention those reasons right now, is Noah worth 5/70 or 5/75 mil?

    No, I will not pay him that much so I am with you that 5/60 is the most I will offered him but I will try my best to keep him. I will not be surprise to see Joakim Noah change his mind, in fact I could see the offered be 5/65 instead and he'll take it.

  • Agreed, I was kinda worried by his play overall in this tournament. At times you wonder if he has regressed. But on thinking about it, he is being asked to do a lot of things different from his role at the Bulls, especially deferring to Durant. Hopefully this is a great learning experience for him and with a little coaching from Thibs, who knows, he may just be ready to take off.

  • How was Asik overall in the game?

  • CHRIS SHERIDAN (aka the Chicago-hater):

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5559962&categoryid=2378529

    Thanks for hating on another Chicago guy Chris Sheridan...you ass-hat.

    What did Chauncey Billups shoot today? How's 1/8? Did he mention that? Nope.

    What did Eric Gordon shoot today? How's 1/4? Did he mention that? Nope.

    Somebody tweet that ASS-HAT and tell him where to shove it!!!

  • uh how? he still gets bullied down low.. thats where championships are really won..

    spurs,celtics,l.a & etc.. you gotta take away the post up so that the half court game becomes a jump shot game for the other team.. joakim can barely play with roy hibbert down low.. lets be honest he's a power foward on defense.. only a weakside helper.. i dont get how we act like he blks 2 a game.. bogut is far better than he his and dont get hype like how ya do to noah on d..

  • i dont get that thought .. think about it

    we have the second best offer for melo behind the nets if joakim is involved..

    if melo knows that nj has to give up alot and just be left with lopez and he has to wait a year or two just to get to brooklyn and then have to get another player i dont see him saying he wants nj as much as chicago at all..remember this is a basically a no trade clause type of deal.. because melo wont resign and denver doesnt have to trade him..

    joakim,deng and two 1st and cash is by far better than everyone elses when you look at martin and smith contract being up.. the can also trade billups as soon as melo is gone and might include nene with melo if we get melo.. which there money situation bad anymore..

    you still have lawson,affalo,deng,joakim..with billups,smith & martin with new draft picks and their own to trade.. it isnt bad thats why this story may drag longer.. its making sense now if joakim does hold out..

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    I think that Doug is saying that Deng & Noah is a bad deal for Denver not because of Noah, but because they still have to take Dengs contract.

    Noah, Taj and our draft picks might rock Denvers world but does not work cap wise. Although Galinari and Randolf might still be preferable, because they aren't getting 5/60 or 5/70 anytime in the next few years.

    That is why NY has an advantage over the Bulls, unless of course Deng turns into the second coming of James Worthy before the trade deadline.

  • Agree...For most times, this guy singles out Rose. That said, Rose struggled and looked out of rhythm. Billups is bad for Rose in the sense that he not only handles the ball for a lot of time/deciding what to do and shoots it including long 3s. So, the question is can Rose play with a ball-handling SG like Billups(that's what he is now on the FIBA team) or a SF...questions about a LBJ kind of player fit with Rose..

  • You had me until you got to Danny Fortson and Jayson Williams, hardly elite guys.

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