More Anthony and Fernandez rumors, same as it ever was

Per the Denver Post:

But
the source also pointed out that there are plenty of moving parts when
trading a superstar -- Denver is familiar with this process, be it in the
trades for Allen Iverson or Chauncey Billups -- and it's quite possible
that if Denver trades Anthony, a third team could be involved to make
the transaction work.

Though Denver is open to fielding offers for Anthony, it is possible
the team won't move on any potential deal until close to the February
trade deadline.

Per David Aldrdige - Nba.com:


But it's hard to believe that Fernandez is still on the
Blazers' roster a week before the start of camp, after the team and his
agent, Andy Miller, have spent the summer trying to broker a trade for
the unhappy guard. Fernandez has made it clear he doesn't want to play
for Nate McMillan any more, and the Blazers have made it clear that
they'd try to accomodate him. But Portland wants a first-round pick for
the 25-year-old guard, who averaged 8.1 points in 23 minutes a game for
Portland last season, and not just any old first-rounder.

The
Blazers have been dancing with Chicago all summer about a deal for
Fernandez. The problem is after the Bulls' big offseason, acquiring
Carlos Boozer, Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer and C.J. Watson, a future
Bulls first-rounder is more likely to be near the bottom of the first
round than in the 15-20 range Portland is seeking. And with owner Paul
Allen's wallet, the Blazers can always buy their way into the first
round if they want. So what would the point be of trading Fernandez for a
late first? It's the same reason that Portland isn't very interested in
a future first that the Celtics, who've been trying to make a deal for
Fernandez, could offer.

Fernandez, according to a source, rejected
a possible trade to New Orleans, where he could have played for former
Blazers assistant Monty Williams, now the Hornets' coach.

Chicago
also has that future first-rounder it acquired from Charlotte last
February in the Tyrus Thomas deal, and I suspect the Blazers would have
more than a little interest in that pick. But it's protected until 2016,
and I also suspect the Bulls want to hang on to that pick in case it
turns into something good, much like that Knicks pick that became a
top-10 selection for Utah this year, six years after New York sent it to
Phoenix as part of the Stephon Marbury trade, and Phoenix sent it to
the Jazz in a deal for Tom Gugliotta.

The Denver news doesn't surprise me much.  I noted awhile ago that I felt Denver was most likely to wait until February to make a move on Anthony.   If Anthony is limiting the field as much as it appears he is then the Nuggets don't have much incentive to hurry and might as well see if they can change his mind by having a great season.

If the deal is to be with the Bulls they can also monitor the progress of the players they'd want back in a trade.  A healthy Luol Deng playing at a high level may convince them to pull the trigger while an injured Luol Deng would save them from taking a bullet.  Either way, it's unlikely the Bulls offer will change, so you might as well wait and see how good it looks in three months.

If Melo is willing to go to NJ then NJ will get him, if not then I think the offers the Bulls and Knicks are close enough that it will depend on how the players look at the deadline.

As for Fernandez, the story is the same as it ever was.  Neither team has incentive to move off their present stance really.  The Blazers aren't missing out on a late 1st, as the article notes, they'll buy into the draft using cash if they want a pick in that range.   The Bulls don't think Rudy, given his desire to return to Europe and mediocreness, is worth more than that.

I think eventually, this deal has about a 2/3rds chance of going down with Rudy to Chicago and either James Johnson and our late #1 or just the #1 going to Portland.  In the end, the disincentive to keep Rudy around and grumbling will make Portland dump him. 

He's going to make their team worse with his presence, and his value is what it is. They can want a mid 1st rounder just like I want to double my salary, but they've been shopping him all summer and the best offer is what it is at this point.  Most teams in the mix have moved on and signed guys who would play the same role, if anything his value is going down not up, and it's even less likely to raise in the regular season when he won't play regularly.

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  • Doug, what is Rudy's reputation as a teammate? I'm concerned that he is not only a pain in ownership's ass but also a clubhouse cancer. I've always been a firm believer in weighing not only the player's talent, but furthermore his personality and how it will mesh with the current state of the Chicago Bulls. That's not to say you never pick up a player if he's a dickhead prima donna, championships have been won with rosters chock full of them, i.e. 2003 Boston Red Sox. But I dont think this team fits that mold. Any idea what the deal is with Rudy? Is it really just a beef between coach and player?

  • Great point we don't need a locker room cancer! We have a good hard nosed defensive team now and don't need any whiners here or they will get beat down by our big guys! :-)

  • I don't think Rudy is bad at all. He was lied to by Portland and plus he is behind an all-star SG and Portland signed/drafted a few guys at the wing position. So, basically he is almost an insurance for injury there. That means, he is not going to make his big paycheck. The deal is both Anthony and Rudy supply what the Bulls need i.e. offensive numbers from the perimeter for a starter and space the floor.
    You are right about Denver and Deng. If Deng performs at a high level, Denver might take him then or somebody else might take him in a 3 way trade like LAC...

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    How was Rudy lied to?? The Blazers gave this chump every opportunity and he blew it!! He even started in the playoffs and several times during the last 2 seasons and stunk it up. He got plenty of playing time off the bench as well, and all he can do is jack up 3-pointer after 3-pointer. His defense is awful, he's afraid to drive to the basket, he's soft, whines like a baby, and he thinks just because he was a star in Spain that he's entitled over here in the NBA. Brandon Roy is 10 times the player of Rudy, and Rudy knew Roy was the starting SG and the star of this team before he even came over to the Blazers. Quit making excuses for this overrated player..

  • CHRIS BROUSSARD:

    He says that Melo to the Bulls is a done deal, if Noah is involved.

    http://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/status/25119765787

    I say no to that deal.

    NJ isn't giving up Lopez, so the Bulls shouldn't give up Noah. Paxson needs to do his job and SELL Denver on Deng, Gibson, Johnson, Picks and Cash. If he has to, he should find a way to get a hold of Melo's people and have him force a trade to Chicago.

    This can and should get done.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    So the trade would be Deng, Noah, Johnson and picks... sounds like wayyyyyyyyy too much.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I'd do Noah and Deng and the bulls first, but not Charlotte's. That's not a ton to give up for a guy of Melo's ability, especially if Noah is asking for $12 mil a year.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    You're crazy, I'd trade Noah any day for a franchise megastar like Carmello.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I am sick of people trying to trade Deng, here's another idea of how Chicago can get anthony. All summer long the Bull's and other teams did sign and trade using players they let go earlier in the summer. Why not try to sign and trade 4 players the Bulls let go for Jamal Crawford, and then use that trade to get Anthony instead of the big and long contract of Deng's. Here's how it could work:
    First Portland trades Fernandez to Chicago for a draft pick this week or next!
    Next, Chicago does a sign and trade (providing cap relief for Atlanta who needs it for now and next year) to Atlanta for Crawford by trading Pargo 3.3mil, Devin Brown 2.5mil, and Flip Murray 3.3 and Alexander for the remaining balance. Next, Chicago trades for Anthony by trading Crawford, Fernandez, Gibson, Johnson, and 1--#1 draft picks to Denver with cash for 2.6M. Hey guys, how do you like me now? Huh! Fernandez gets all the playing time he wants and Denver gets a truckload of
    talent--plus two possible starters in Crawford and Fernandez. And Chicago keeps Deng and get Arnold also.

  • It is a big risk to do that trade when you give up Noah. It is kind of like taking a step back in rebounding, defense and step forward in offense. The only way Bulls get this deal done is if there is a third team involved which likes Deng..i.e. the Clippers who might give up Aminu and another young player or some other team like Minnesota(there is David Kahn)..Both of these teams do not have legit SFs. Everyone says it is easy to fill a defensive Center like Noah. But look at how much we struggled to get a low-post scoring option like Boozer(8/10 years to get this option) and he is injury prone.
    If Melo goes to Nets, it is more because of the city rather than winning.
    This might be just Denver trying to prove to Melo what he will end up with if he goes through a trade..

  • Mitchell,

    The Denver management is trying to MILK other teams of their talent.

    NJ isn't giving up Lopez, because they know they need to pair him with Melo in order to win. Melo knows that too.

    Isn't the same thing true with the Bulls and Noah? I'd say YES.

    FYI: Outside of Melo and Parker, the free-agent class sucks next year.

  • Mitchell,

    That's why Paxson needs to do his job and sell Denver on Gibson.

    As long as NJ isn't giving up Lopez, there is no need for the Bulls to OVER-BID for Melo and give up Noah.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Lopez is NJ's Rose. That's why they are not giving him up. They are giving up Favors. If you compare Favors to Gibson. Favors can be a stud or a bust but he is predicted to be a stud unlike Taj. And they will give Terrence Will ...again less cost and promise than Deng and maybe Devin Harris...That's a good deal for Denver.
    For NJ, offcourse...they will not win in 2010-11..but opens up capspace for Paul, Parker at the end of next season.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I assume by do his job you mean use his Jedi mind tricks.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    MW-

    The bulls achilles heel for that last 5 years at least is two fold:

    1) The lack of a legitimate low post player (solved now with Booz
    2) The lack of a go-to scorer and a guy to run the offense through

    While I believe that Rose will continue to develop, he still seems far more content to be a facilitator. If we can provide him with someone to take the pressure off, who can dump in 25 a game and create his own shot, his upside is that much better, in my opinion.

    Carmelo is largely considered to be a top 5 NBA talent. Noah is simply not. Its much easier to replace a hustle player, defensive rebounding type guy.

    Honestly, I cant even belive this is up for debate. I dont want to even bring up the fact that Noah's plantar facitis could also be a lingering injury over the course of a season. Are you prepared to pay him 11-12 million a year?

  • In reply to Dmband:

    IF it is so easy, name even one guy who replaces Noah and makes less than $12 million per or will make less on his second contract(i.e. Horford, Lopez), and don't even try to pull an Anderson Varejao on me.

    didn't Brendan Haywood just get 5/55 from Dallas. Chandler still makes what 12/13 million this season.

    Noah is likely to bump up another notch this season, I expect him to be at least a 13&13 guy if not 15&15.

    PF is not fatal, Pippen had it bad one season, but never had it again, Noah recovered for the playoffs, and I am sure that the training staff will work to make sure that it doesn't return.

    Besides all of that, Melo is basically a pot head punk ass bitch volume scorer, not a franchise cornerstone.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Noah has great BB IQ which very few centers have. The Bulls are in a bind..they cannot give up assets easily as they do not have too many. If they had kept the 1st round pick or got a future first round pick for Hinrich and this year's pick,...that would have been great. Maybe they tried but not getting future tradeable assets like they did for Tyrus is FO's fault.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69205/20100921/nba_executive_melo_wont_sign_with_new_jersey/ I guess this cuts out all the guys saying N.J. has the best package to offer huh???

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Sounds to me that Melo wants to win and compete for a championship. N.J or N.Y. will not get it done.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    This seems like a plus week for Melo rumors while last week was a little quiet. We just cannot believe these rumors. For ex: They say Houston can give a good package with Kevin Martin as the main piece. How is Kevin Martin more healthy than Deng. We are at the mercy of Broussard(who I don't think wants to lie) but it's like the LeBron story all over again..

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Everyone needs to take a step back from the "matching miami's big three" talk. Basketball is played with 5 players on the court, in fact you even get a bunch of players who can rotate in and out of those 5 off the bench. The key, as Mitchell W has reiterated, is to construct a team that can compete with the Heat as a whole. The big three is the name tag, but the reality is 5 guys wearing Miami jerseys will be on the floor at a time. Remember this LA Lakers team?(Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Payton) Sure hindsight 20/20 we all know they failed. But their season began with bold predictions that they would be the team that unseated our Bulls record season. Recall the team that took the monster down in the Finals was the team oriented Detroit Pistons. It is to our advantage to aspire not for a matching big three, but rather use against them the thing we have that they dont. That's depth, team defense, and what I hope will be a team with superior passion.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    You are partially right. But talent always wins in the NBA. It is rare that guys are not motivated, game planned etc.. We just cannot compare to something even 15 years back. There was no detail stats, easy video analysis like we have today. Team concept is great but if you can get a talented guy like Melo...he will keep LBJ honest on defense and make him work unlike Deng/Brewer would do.

    About the Lakers, c'mon...that was a totally different situation. Shaq and Kobe were feuding and acting like idiots while Payton/Malone were finished.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Different, but not totally different. The same in ridiculously high expectations. Different in preexisting issues. And you think Melo will make Lebron work harder than Brewer? How about having Noah around the rim as a disruptive body vs Kurt Thomas. I agree that we need superstars, so I guess you and I view DRose in a different light. I see Rose as an all-star that could reach D Wade's level during a time that will see Wade into his 30's. Boozer next to Noah is better than Bosh next to BigZ or Dampier. As the team's success goes, I'm simply reasoning that What we get from Noah, Deng, and Taj is more than we'll get from Anthony's production minus what we lose via trade.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    I think Rose to get to Wade's level will be atleast 2/3 years. Not this year...and in 2/3 years, Boozer will on the downside. Noah + Rose have to grow together...If we get Melo, Melo+Boozer in prime plus Rose can speed up his development being a sort of role player some times.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    JUST A THOUGHT:

    Marc Spears of Yahoo Sports, JerseyChaser.com and Isiah Thomas have all come out and said it's between the Chicago Bulls and the New York Knicks for Carmelo Anthony's services.

    Why would they say that?

    Maybe the know that Melo doesn't want to sign long-term in New Jersey, but would sign long-term in Chicago or New York. Therefore, it's possible that whichever of those two teams can put together the best trade package for Melo will get him.

    ADVANTAGE BULLS!!!

    (I still don't believe Denver wants or will trade Melo to a Western Conf. team.)

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    You are still believing these tweets/rumors from all these guys. If you do a poll of how many tweets/reports had LBJ/Wade/Bosh coming to the Bulls...Melo's tweet numbers don't even come close...
    It is just pure self-believed(because they get it from a source) nonsense spewing from these guys..

  • Yeah no advantages at all. We'd be much worse off IMO. We'd have a smaller window with that team and wouldn't be able to take 2 games from the Heat in a 7 game series. From what I've heard about this Bulls team from the 1 inside source I have, is this team is 100% buying into the system and is expected to come out even stronger than people think. The one person having issues is Deng from what I hear. Let's not break up a good thing if the deal isn't right. Especially before they take the court.

  • I questioned Rudy's attitude simply because I didn't know the details of his Portland dilemma. Sounds like a pretty legitimate reason to accumulate some disdain for the organization.

    My question now is; how do we work Rudy, Brewer, and Korver in at SG? In no way am I saying adding Rudy is some kind of negative complication. I'm simply trying to figure the minutes breakdown. Personally I think you start your defensive standout and bring the 3 point threats off the bench once the game has established pace and leave it up to Thibs working his magic as to how and when are the right ways to piece together lineups that present complications for opponents, keeping the other team on its heals. Obviously Korver wont be limited to subbing in at shooting guard as I'm sure he'll learn Deng's position as well.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    IMO, if we have Rudy, Brewer and Korver...I would start Rudy with Rose. Offense is more important than defense most times..Before everybody goes off on that, it's not that defense is not important. But, seeing how we struggled with offense last year and falling back big time in the 1st quarter...it makes a difference. Brewer is more like Hinrich and that scares me.

    It depends on Rose. If Rose's defense has improved, Rudy can start. Rose should be able to play more defense because his offensive load is now reduced and doesn't have to expend so much energy on offense like last year.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Uh, no it isn't. Rose provides plenty of offense.

    And how is Rudy better than Korver? Seems like a lot of duplication there.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    And why would you take out your best perimeter defender for what would be your fourth offensive option behind Rose,Boozer and Deng?

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    You seem to have forgotten that in Boozer we are adding a bonafide #1/#2 scorer good for 20ppg at about 55% shooting.

    We need someone who can harrass Wade, Kobe, Lebron, and all the other high scoring wings. Brewer is that guy.

    Rudy would be perfect off the bench as the scoring 2 guard when Brewer spells Deng at small forward.

    The Bulls probably have 72 minutes to spread around at point, shooting guard and small forward after giving Rose and Deng 36 minutes each.

    That means that Watson, Brewer, Rudy and Korver are splitting 72 minutes, that works out to about 18 minutes each.

    Even if we cut Deng back to 30mpg(which is the max that I want to see him play) it still works out to less than 20 minutes per guy if we add Rudy vs 26 mpg each if we don't add Rudy.

    This doesn't even factor in Bogans.

    I'd like to get Rudy, but it is going to cause chemistry problems even if Rudy isn't a bad guy, there simply will not be enough minutes to keep all the new guys happy.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    If Rudy starts at SG for the Bulls, they will be in big trouble.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Just wondering- IF we send out Noah, we'd have a huge hole at the five, Denver would have Nene. Any talk of a Noah/Deng for Anthony/Nene swap? Not sure how salaries match or if Chi/Nugs do that deal...

  • Its good to hear Rudy's attitude isn't the issue but rather another case of an organization doing what it does best, stick it to one of its players, but hey just like players reiterate to the point of annoyance, "this is a business". My question now is; how to we work in Rudy, Brewer, and Korver at shooting gurad. In no way am I saying adding Rudy creates a problem, it makes us better no doubt. I'm simply curious as to how the minutes will breakdown between the players. Personally I say start your defensive work horse in Brewer, then bring in the 3 pt threats after thibs is able to grasp the game's pace and establish how he will attack his opponent with the many options his bench presents. Still I worry about guys getting the minutes it takes to get into a solid shooting rhythm.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    Sticking it to Rudy? Dude, wake up and smell the coffee!! The Blazers gave this guy every opportunity and he blew it. Rudy is way overrated. Now, they've replaced him with someone 3 times better in Wesley Matthews, whom I think the Bulls should have gone after.

  • Right...Some people write as if Denver is being run by a few old Grandmas without any knowledge of basketball or any analytical skills while Bulls have these smart, wily con men who can dupe these grandmas.
    Again, this might all be a sell job to Melo by Denver about his choices to eventually make him stay back in Denver..

  • Can Murphy be traded again...Wasn't he just traded recently or is it only if he was signed as a FA that you cannot be traded for 6 months?

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I read that because NJ was able to absorb Murphy's contract completely under the cap, they can move him again any time they want.

  • You have to send Noah in that deal to get Melo.

    Noah's numbers can be replaced far more easily than Melo's ability to score. Listen, I love Noah, how he plays etc, but this is a no brainer. If the Bulls cannot get this done we will be stuck in the middle of the pack in the east for years to come.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    No you don't

  • RUDY UPDATE:

    http://twitter.com/SamAmicoNBA/status/25129644003

    Go figure!!!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    That means he probably gets traded in the next 48 hrs.

  • Dengs cap # this season is $11.4 million, next year it is $12.4 million, and it averages $12.75 over the remaining 4 seasons. He only makes $14+ million in the final year of the contract.

    Not saying that he is a deal or a steal, but he is not a $14 million per year guy, he is just a $14 million last year guy.

    Denver would save $31 million over the next 4 seasons by swapping Melo for Deng. That is more than a full MLE over 4 seasons.

    Of course this is exactly why I do not believe that Reinsdorf has any interest in acquiring Melo.

    But I am sure that Mappy has already received assurances from Jerry that he is willing to offer Melo Joe Johnson money.

  • Favors obviously has huge upside, but so did Kwame Brown and Tyrus Thomas.

    There is more than a 50% chance that he is a total bust.

    Right now his greatest attribute is his rookie contract.

  • I agree, the Nets can put together the best package and still not have to give up Lopez.

    And a Knicks deal with Galinari, Randolph and Curry is better than the Bulls deal also.

    any chance we can convince the Nets to trade us T Williams for JJ. HaHa

  • I agree Rudy would basically fill the role that the Bulls envisioned for Reddick, except with his much smaller(for now)contract he isn't guaranteed to start at least in the beginning of this season.

    If we land Rudy, your right Korver never plays any 2 guard, which is probably a good thing most of the time. I also hope that Deng plays no more than 30 minutes a night, leaving 18 for Korver, unless of course Brewer plays some small forward.

    I see both Korver and Watson being less than thrilled if we get Rudy, and Bogans might just retire or demand a trade as he will be DNPCD every night.

  • Exactly, you cannot out big 3 Miami, the only combo that might compare would be Durant, Paul and Howard, and that has as much of a chance of happenning as any of Mappy's predictions ending in Hmmmm.

  • Redick was/is also a decent defender and probably could run the point in a pinch. So he was the obvious first choice. It was his combination of shooting and defense that the bulls liked, not just his shooting.

  • That's B.S. Doug! The Blazers gave Rudy every chance in the world and even started him in the Playoffs for an injured Roy and he still choked. Rudy thinks he's better than he actually is because he was a "star" in Spain, but that means nothing in the NBA. He is a bench player in this league and only would start on a handful of very bad teams with no Shooting Guards. He's nothing but a whiny little baby who does nothing but jack up 3-point shots. I don't blame the Blazers for getting rid of this BUST.

  • oh how wrong you are...

  • The NJ deal is probably the best Denver can do, Favors looks like a future star, and they'll need draft picks to rebuild. They would be stupid not to take it, being that Carmello will simply just walk away after this season is over. Harris, Anthony, and Lopez is a pretty nice core-3 to start with.

  • They lowered his minutes the second year because he didn't improve, he actually got worse and didn't work on his game to get better. And they acquired Wes Matthews because he's simply better than Fernandez, plus, unlike Rudy, Wes is a lockdown defender, can shoot the mid-range shot and 3-pointer, great teammate, hard worker, and doesn't whine like a little 2-year-old like Rudy when he doesn't get enough playing time. You can't blame Portland for trying to improve their team. The Bulls can have Rudy, I just can't wait until he starts crying because he doesn't start for that team.

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