Bulls internally discuss whether to include Noah for Melo

Per Nick Friedell:

The Chicago Bulls are interested in trading for the Denver Nuggets' Carmelo Anthony and are discussing internally including Joakim Noah as part of the deal, according to a league source.

This is kind of a non-story that sounds like a story.

Of course the Bulls have discussed whether to give up Noah or not, but we don't actually know the results of the discussion.  I've discussed the same thing with Bulls fans for months, so it's no surprise that the thought crossed the mind of management.

If the story was, "Bulls offering Noah for Anthony" then that'd be a story.   Bulls thinking about whether they should offer Noah for Anthony is merely them doing their job (well actually offering him might be simply doing their job as well).

From a salary perspective, Luol Deng is still going out in this (theoretical) trade to make things work financially, either to a third team, or to the Nuggets.  When you weigh the salary out, you've got Deng who's making about 12.5 million a season for the next four years and Noah who's likely going to make 11+ per season for 6 years starting next summer. 

You're basically locked in for four years of those two guys at around 23.5 million a year.  Carmelo, with an extension, probably runs you around 20 million a season (I think it's a shade less), so basically from a team building perspective you have Carmelo Anthony and 3.5 million dollars to spend on an unnamed player or you have Noah and Deng, which is better?

Also, you have to wonder if getting Anthony would increase our likeliness to spend into the luxury tax area.  If yes, we'd have a tighter group of talent and an easier team to improve going forward.  

I still don't think this is relevant for several months.  Denver has no incentive to trade Anthony to Chicago prior to the season starting and plenty of incentive to wait until the deadline and see where Deng is at.

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  • NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO .....ah!

  • Not after the I have friends commercial, I thought he and Rose were untouchable?!

  • The question has to be is Melo better than Noah and Deng and maybe even Taj and a first round pick. I don't think so. Melo is better than Deng and Taj and a first probably. But if we include Noah, I'm not so sure I want to do the deal. (Yeah I'm a big big Noah fan) If we need to include Noah I would wait it out till the deadline and see how Noah's game developed in the off-season and how he responds to Thibs.

  • Maybe Paxson's thinking is he does not want to get burnt again by viewing players as untouchable. Remember, the Kobe for Deng trade? But still I would not be willing to let go of someone who has become an emotional leader for the Bulls!

  • I have to say if the Bulls do manage to pull off this trade (and manage to hang on to both Rose and Noah) this off-season will turnout to be a great success following the Lebron fiasco! Melo is not to shabby for a consolation prize!

  • OVER-BID:

    The Bulls' management doesn't need to include Noah in a deal for Melo.

    They would be OVER-BIDDING against themselves. There are only a handful of teams that can trade for Melo, because he will only sign long-term with a handful of teams.

    I identified 7 teams earlier on that could realistically trade for Melo.

    - Chicago
    - New York
    - New Jersey
    - Charlotte
    - Orlando
    - Atlanta
    - Washington

    Out of those 7 teams, the Bulls can offer the best trade package, without even including Noah in their package. Again, there is no need for John Paxson and Gar Forman to OVER-BID against themselves.

    Deng, Gibson, Johnson, Picks and Cash is the best deal Denver can get.

    I expect it to go down.

  • KENYON MARTIN:

    What people should realize is that Denver can use his $16.5 million dollar expiring salary to acquire more young talent, such as Iguodala, Pietrus, Gortat, Bass, Rip Hamilton, Ben Gordon or Tayshaun Prince. All of those guys are on the trade block.

    If Denver trades Melo, they will be in full rebuilding mode. Getting Deng and Gibson by trading Melo and some other pieces through trading Martin will help them do just that.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince = young talent? Has the Happy Mobile taken a wrong turn back to 2004?

  • In reply to jpbaker81:

    Yeah, and even some of the other guys are marginally "young" or "talented." Of Pietrus, Gortat and Bass, for example, only Pietrus has averaged more than 10 ppg for a season in his career (only once, in '06-'07). None have averaged more than 5 rpg in a season. Pietrus will turn 29 during the 2010-11 season. Gortat will turn 27. Ben Gordon will be 28 toward the end of the season. Iguodala will be 27 in the middle of the season. Some of these guys are in their primes (not "young" by NBA standards), but really only Iguodala could be considered much of a difference-maker at this point. And if he were traded to Denver, perhaps along with another one or two players on this list, and assuming the Anthony-to-Bulls-for-Deng deal happens, that wouldn't be a particularly attractive team to put on the court for Nuggets fans (especially since two of their projected best players, i.e. Deng and Ig, play the same position). Certainly it would be no better than keeping Anthony and getting the most out of him from a marketing perspective.

    Heck, even if they somehow obtained all of these guys and kept Anthony they still wouldn't be anything close to a Lakers-caliber squad, let alone Miami. I'm sure Anthony is aware of this, which is why he wants out now. Denver doesn't have much to offer him any more. Unfortunately no one has much to offer them in exchange for him either. Wishing otherwise may be a fun exercise for some, but I see no reason to waste energy on such frivolities.

  • In reply to SloanVanLier:

    Awesome Grammar and a nice assessment Sloan VanLier.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    we'd have a gaping hole at center. We should try to trade noah for melo, and see if we can get another team with a trade exception to trade a center back for deng.

    If we dont, i perdict noah for melo being the next deng for gasol.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Noah and Nene are both defensive minded players. So Denver might want to keep only one of them and get rid of the older guy. So they might want Noah. It will be a good deal for the Bulls to get Nene + Melo for Noah + Deng + other pieces with Deng either going to Denver or involved in a 3 way trade. The advantage of doing a deadline deal is we can use the whole team for the deal unlike now.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to MrHappy:

    From what Doug was saying, any offer the Bulls could make that would be more appealing to Denver than the NJ, Atlanta, etc would decimate us. This feels like a desperation move from a team (the bulls) that has no reason to be desperate right now. You don't spend the summer putting together a contender just to rip it apart. You don't bring in a defensive mastermind at head coach and then trade away two of his best defenders. Pass.

    And they need to put this rumor to rest for good before the season starts so Deng doesn't feel he's playing the first 40 games on the bubble. Offer Deng, JJ, one of the guards and a pick. When they reject it move on and be done with the whole thing already.

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    I agree. The big problem with letting things drag on is it does hurt team chemistry. Make the offer before the season starts, and if they reject it announce any talks are over, and move on.

    If Noah comes into his own(has accrued enough weight/muscle) this season as an anchor/immovable defensive center in the post then his value to me skyrockets. I can see him glued in the lane, and truly becoming a shot blocking disrupting nightmare with Taj and Thib's last line of defense genius.

    If Noah did take a step back or look like the same pushable defender around the basket then maybe I consider the trade for Carmelo, but most likely I'd say no. Noah is the backbone of this team. He wants to be here, and loyalty to a guy who gives his heart and soul does mean something despite what media people are ready to dump players/families at the drop of a hat. Then if things don't work out they blame management. Keep Joakim. So he can beat LeBron and Miami's ass.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I can't believe anyone would even consider this.
    Unbelievable.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Silverwulf:

    I know. Deng + Noah is about 27 ppg and 27 rebounds. Carmelo is 28 pts and 6.5 rebounds. How do you justify trading away 21 rebounds a game, plus a pick and then paying a premium for the priviledge?

    Am I missing something here? Is the front office doing calculations that my puny little basketball mind can't handle? Or are they just hell-bent on messing up a perfectly solid team before they EVER SEE THE COURT???

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    you have to guard melo everywhere he is on the court, everynight. you can leave deng and noah alone unless they're near the basket.

    plus it's easier to replace noah than it is to get a melo.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    i meant you can leave noah alone, unless he's near the bucket. you can leave deng alone near the 3pt line. plus melo has a better chance of being healthy.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    also you can leave brewer in the starting lineup. Rose plus melo is a significant enough offensive threat, that brewer would be an ideal starter. get a shooter to come off the bench to play spot up minutes.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    Let's see, last year Deng was a 38.6% 3-point shooter. Melo was a 31.6% 3-point shooter.

    And you think we have to guard Melo at the 3pt line more than Deng?
    I'll leave Melo alone at the 3pt line every night ...

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Well you want Deng when his shot doesn't fall and then you ask him to post up? He can't because he won't. Deng can't handle the ball either and id not real strong around the rim like Melo. If all you can point to is Deng's 3pt %, then you can keep him . Give me Melo all day long!!!

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    What are you talking about?
    I never said anything about Deng posting up.

    Avtar said you have to play Melo EVERYWHERE on the court, but you can play off Deng at the 3pt line.

    I merely pointed out that if I was going to leave one of them alone at the 3pt line, it would be Melo.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Explain why you would leave Melo alone at the 3pt line?

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    Between the two of them?

    31.6% vs 38.6% ... not that hard of a choice.

    Melo is a 31% career 3pt shooter. It's not like we're talking about the second coming of Larry Bird here.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Are you saying that you would keep Deng because he extends the offense futher? Therefore Melo wouldn't be a good option for this trade? I'm trying to get clarity on your comment....

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    I'm not sure why this is hard to understand.

    Maybe you should go back and re-read the thread. And stop trying to read things into it when you do.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Dude! Don't get your panties in a bunch!!! All iwas trying to understand was whether you felt it was worth Deng going in a trade or not based on his three point percentage..I'm NOt trying to read into anything you said. I DID ask for clarity!!! Take a chill pill! There's no Pit Bull here!

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    LOL, you're the one who's freaking out.
    Relax man.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    It's OK I'm cool. Just wantyed to be clear...

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    DO NOT include Noah. He is the man. Pay him what he wants. On the court, off the court he's the shit. His interviews alone are worth $12/year. And to think I said I would no longer be a Bulls fan if they drafted Noah.

  • In reply to Dileg:

    I love Noah too, but I hope your comments were in gest. I want a shot at winning the title, not a team who has a guy with great interviews!

    I pray there is a way to bring Melo and keep Noah, but that looks like an unlikely outcome.

  • In reply to Dileg:

    It would be easier to find a rebounder and defensive player than what Melo brings to the table. It is a no brainer. Try to get him without Noah but probably wont happen without him. The problem with the whole trade is they dont want Dengs contract. Cudos for little happy, he has been on this bandwagon for quite awhile, and its now a 50/50 it might happen.

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    I think you need to double check your match Deng is a carrer 17 & 6 guy, Noah was an 11 & 11 guy last year basically. That adds up to 28 and 17. Whats all this crap about giving up 21 rebounds per game?

    Besides, just adding up stats like that doesn't mean anything. And even if I use your simple logic you must have forgotten that Boozer will bring extra rebounding that our PF spot didn't last year.

    Or how about the fact that Melo would bring a strong post option that neither Deng nor Noah have. Or the fact that Melo is a top 5-7 talent in the NBA. Neither Deng/Noah are probably top 20 players (maybe Noah is close).

    I love Noah and would love to see him stay, but I think Melo might be too much to turn down if Deng and Noah are the only costs.

  • It is kind of true. Without Noah, our big three might come up short against Miami. But again it depends on the pieces we give up. If we are giving up Noah, then Taj, Brewer and Korver probably stay. So we are still a deeper team than Miami.
    The thing about Noah is we love his personality and the intangibles as a player. But his actual play itself can hopefully be replaced by a center like Nene. For all his faults, Melo didn't get to play with good players except for a couple of seasons and he almost took the Nuggets to the finals one year in the vaunted Western Conf.
    But the bad side of this is, if we get Melo...it is definitely for next year because I think the first year will have lot of chemistry issues. And in the second year onwards, even if we have good chemistry...can we still beat a then "good chemistry" Miami team?

  • "you have Carmelo Anthony and 3.5 million dollars to spend on an unnamed player or you have Noah and Deng, which is better?"

    Noah and Deng, and I didn't even have to think about it.

  • Defense and rebounding wins championships. That's why Thibs was a coveted coaching commodity. If you remove Noah you give up both your best rebounder and arguably your best defender at any position, while replacing him with someone who is not particularly good at either. I agree with Doug that the Bulls' brass should let this play out until the trade deadline. Denver may start to feel nervous about losing Anthony for nothing at that point, and may be willing to capitulate a bit more than they are now.

  • Hey guys, I've been saying this all along... Carmelo wil be a great big pain in the ass if he's not traded before the season. He has the leverage. Denver knows that they can't win now. They would love to have cap space as well as young bigs to work with. But they are a seller in a limited market... Why is it limited? Melo says only Chi or NY. That sums it up basically. He can choose not to play or if he plays, dog it. (I don't think he does that.) This is a fire sale of major proportions. If I'm the Bulls I wait. They may risk losing Melo to someone else, but Melo can say I ain't going there. Now NY can offer Curry's contract as well as youngun's such as Galinari and others but the player value will not be the same coming from Chicago. Dend and Taj has better upside, regardless of what you think Luol's contract is like. This will not be value for value in terms of trading personnel. It's about where Melo wants to go and what will be the best package the Nuggets get from the deal. I think the Bulls are in the cat bird's seat. If they wait it out, they can keep Noah... Charlotte's pick may have to go as well as Taj and/or JJ. But if so then they have top 5 like players at every position except the 2 guard position... Not bad for a summer's activity..

  • So Doug, what do you do if you are Denver and Melo emphatically states that he's playing for CHI or NY and no one else? How do you deal with that?

  • Is Noah as frail as Deng? Noah has bad feet and he is weak, he gets pushed around under the rim. Neither on of these two are go to guys!!!

    Trading these two for Carmelo is a no brainer even for the trainee Paxson. Hopefully Gibson stays in Chicago!

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