Bulls and Noah making progress on extension

Click the link, because Stein's got a great piece up covering the Melo / Noah thing.   For the most part I agree with what he's written, but here's an interesting bit about Noah's contract talk with the  Bulls.

1. Before you expend too much brain power trying to figure out
whether the Bulls would really part with Joakim Noah in a trade for
Carmelo Anthony, be advised that the Bulls are actually working on
something else Noah-related: Getting him locked in for the long term
with a contract extension.

The sides have been negotiating quietly for weeks and sources close
to the process say that sufficient progress has been made -- although no
deal is imminent -- to all but guarantee that terms on a five-year
extension will be reached before the Halloween deadline.

Noah is determined to stay in Chicago, one source assures, while the
Bulls continue to send clear signals that they have no interest in
parting with their center. Not even for someone of Anthony's pedigree,
as one source told ESPNChicago.com's Nick Friedell.

I think this lends credence to the Alex Kennedy tweet about the Bulls throwing out 5/60 for Noah, because we hadn't heard anything about Noah and the Bulls negotiating at all while now we hear two stories in two days about the negotiations.   I'm still not sold on the number, and I'm going to try and do some research to find out whether it's good or not, but I'm likely to hit a road block on that one.

Granted, if Noah's not taking 5/60 then I find it hard to believe any ground is going to be closed from here to Halloween unless Noah just changes his mind.   5/60 is a pretty fantastic offer for Noah, who's a very good player, but has his limitations.   It also might be the max contract next off-season, so he doesn't have a whole ton of head room to improve over this by playing out the year.

Given the fact that he's got the frame that leads to potential injuries, and that he's got no more than 5 million in upside by playing out the season while probably having 10 million or so in down side (without a catastrophic injury) it seems like a fair deal to me.

The thing is, with the new CBA coming, the years are almost certainly going to be shortened as well, so the traditional thought of waiting a season to lock in the 6th year doesn't even apply here, because I'd bet large amounts of money that the max contract length goes down to 4 years for a new team and 5 for your existing team.

All in all, I won't be surprised if this gets done, but I will be surprised if it gets done for over 5/60, and the rational part of me still has a hard time buying into the idea the Bulls offered 5/60 and Noah is holding out.   The reverse just feels a lot more likely.

Also in Stein's link he mentions that Denver isn't ready to trade Anthony, they haven't talked to him.   This matches what I've heard as well, and I've noted all along that if there's a trade, I don't expect it to be soon.  I put the odds of us getting Anthony lower than our odds of landing one of the big three this summer.   Maybe 10% or so is where I'd say they land. 

I think including Noah into the deal actually sweetens it less for Denver than it hurts us as well.  Deng + Noah will cost Denver more than Melo and provide fewer wins.  I think they'd rather start from scratch.   For Denver, three years of Taj Gibson making $1 million while rebuilding is probably better than 5 years of Noah making 12 million when they're scheduled to be 30 million under the cap.

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  • 60 Million for Noah a weakling with bad feet who gets pushed around under the rim as if he were on roller skates?

    Trading no shot Noah and the the frail Deng for Carmelo is a no-brainer even for the trainee Paxson!

    Hopefully Gibson stays in Chicago!

  • EYES WIDE SHUT:

    Unfortunately, that's what Doug Thonus and Nick Friedell have in their writings.

    Nothing personal Doug.

    All this Noah trade talk is just BLOGGERS like Doug and Nick trying to get attention. They are good at it too. Mission accomplished, I guess.

    Contrary to what Doug Thonus and Nick Friedell says, the chances are actually greater for the Bulls to land Carmelo Anthony than they were for LeBron James. Believe me, I know.

    Carmelo Anthony does in FACT want to be traded and I pretty confident that Chicago is on his radar. LeBron James, on the other hand, was NEVER coming to the Bulls. In FACT, the Bulls' was targeting LeBron James. They were going after Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.

    Consider the FACT that they had multiple meetings with both Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, but not LeBron James. As I said on here, CHRIS BOSH WAS THE LEAD DOMINO. That was PROVEN TRUE.

    Why the Bulls didn't get Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade is simple. Chris Bosh verbally agreed to work with Byran Colangelo on a S&T, if he left Toronto. However, he changed his mind and deceived Byran Colangelo because him and his finance' wanted to play in a warm weather city.

    Now, Wade had two teams on his list, Miami and Chicago. He said, if he got help (ie, Chris Bosh) he wouldn't leave Miami. Well, because the Bulls couldn't do a S&T for Chris Bosh, which had a shot at happening because Toronto didn't want Mike Beasley, they ended up losing out on Wade and Bosh.

    Now, as for Melo it's a PROCESS OF ELIMINATION. Melo wants to win and he doesn't believe he can do it in Denver. Honestly, I can't see Denver trading Melo within the Western Conference. And Melo wants to be traded to the Bulls or Knicks because they give him the best chance at winning.

    It's really all about the DIVISIONS. The Central Division and the Atlantic Division are easy divisions. The Bulls should only have to contend with the Bucks and the Knicks only have to contend with the Celtics, if they were to get Melo.

    Melo doesn't want any part of the Southeast Division. Therefore you can cross off Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte and Washington from his list of LT possibilities. You can also cross off the Nets because he doesn't want to go to a team that would lose all their talent in a trade for him.

    That's why the Bulls and Knicks are two teams being mentioned.

    ADVANTAGE BULLS.

    NY Knicks can't match a Bulls offer of Deng, Gibson, Johnson, picks and cash. That should be the best offer available to Denver when it's all said and done, because Melo has the LEVERAGE.

    I fully expect Carmelo Anthony and Joakim Noah to be Chicago Bulls this season.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    During the free agency bonanza, you said on multiple occasions that all 3 were going to be in Chicago to form a super team. The reports came out that all 3 were going to Miami. You disputed them, told everyone you had inside information and guaranteed all 3 were going to sign in Chicago.

    You don't remember this? Have you had a shock therapy session since then?

  • In reply to KenyattaWright:

    Yeah...and said crap like "BUSSINESS was GOOD".

    I love lines like: "Believe me, I know."

    I won't and you don't. Your credibility is in the negatives...

    ...mmm.

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    ...mmm,

  • In reply to KenyattaWright:

    Mr Happy.

    No player in the history of the NBA has made a decision regarding where to play based on Divisions. That doesnt even make sense. Divisions in the NBA are basically irrelevant. Divisions? really?

    I agree with what you said here, though :

    ADVANTAGE BULLS.

    NY Knicks can't match a Bulls offer of Deng, Gibson, Johnson, picks and cash. That should be the best offer available to Denver when it's all said and done, because Melo has the LEVERAGE.

    I fully expect Carmelo Anthony and Joakim Noah to be Chicago Bulls this season.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    I don't think Bulls have a big advantage over the KNICKS. The only advantage Bulls have is Rose over Amare. Amare is in his prime but Melo knows his creaky knees can give up anytime and it is Denver all over again while Rose is a up and coming superstar who will only get better along with Noah. And there's Boozer too.
    The trade package Knicks can give during the deadline will be more than the Bulls(Randolph,Galinari for young and semi-proven talent, Eddie Curry's expiring contract) is better than Deng,Gibson, JJ,picks(they are late first rounders anyhow with the Bulls)...the only pick of significance is the Charlotte pick which again is an iffy..

    I think the challenge for GAR/PAX is less competition now(if the Bulls are one of his destinations)for Melo than what it will be during the trade deadline or next off-season.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    "Maybe 10% or so is where I'd say they land. "

    Oh, Doug. Just quit doing these predictions while you have the chance to save face this time. (though you were right with LeBron not going back to Cleveland at 30% or whatever that made-up number was)

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I believe even without Noah, Denver should be realistic and understand they are getting the best possible deal from the Bulls.

    I expect them to continue to hold out from actually trading him until the deadline, because thats called negotiating.

    When its all said and done Carmelo will be a Chicago bull, it just wont be done anytime soon, because the Bulls (and rightfully so) should hold out as long as possible.

    New York CANNOT offer anything close to Deng+Gibson+johnson....that is a very decent trade for Denver.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    I agree 100% with you. The Bulls should hold out and not give up on Noah because Deng,Gibson,and Johnson plus picks is about the best deal they can get if his choices are indeed down to the Bulls and Knicks. Carmelo still has the edge over Denver cause he doesn't have to sign an extension with ant other team that Denver may threaten to trade him to. If it is down to the Bulls and Knicks then he should be a Bull by no later than the trading deadline with Noah still a part of the team.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    What you guys are saying is very logical...but logic and common sense often take a backseat to reality with NBA deals. What Minny got back for KG and way Memphis got back for Gasol are cautionary tales about assuming a team will make the best deal in terms of talent. If Denver decides they just want to start over, they could trade Melo for expirings and picks.

  • In reply to magestew:

    I meant to say: " 'what' Memphis got back for Gasol..."

  • In reply to magestew:

    I would probably hold out too... Deng,Taj,James Johnson and a couple draft picks are a good deal for them.

  • In reply to magestew:

    DERRICK ROSE WOULD LOVE TO PLAY WITH MELO...

    via FanHouse:

    While Chicago guard Derrick Rose said it's too early to think too much about the possibly having Carmelo Anthony as a teammate, he would love to play with the star forward.

    "Why wouldn't I want to play with him?'' the Team USA starter told FanHouse.

    ESPN.com reported earlier this week the Bulls are interested in trading for Anthony, who reportedly wants out of Denver, and that Chicago center Joakim Noah is a possible key piece to go to the Nuggets.

    "Right now, I think that we have our team (in order for the season),'' Rose said. "If it was something like (a trade for Anthony), I would have heard it (was close) or somebody would have called me. Nobody has called me yet.

    "He's still in Denver. He hasn't said he wants to leave. So right now, I'm just playing it between the lines and worrying about what's going on (in Turkey).''

  • In reply to magestew:

    Carmelo Anthony wants to play in New York with Amare. These guys want to hang with 'made' guys who they chat with, have hung around, and like/texting pals. Derrick is a quiet, reserved almost socially passive kid who is not a made guy in these players eyes or someone they want to join up with. Carmelo has already said/toasted(and I do mean toasted) that he wants to join a big three in New York with Amare and Tony Parker or CP3. His chances of coming here unless Derrick just has a monster breakout season along with Joakim is probably slim and none.

    Carmelo's best interest is to sign an extension with his new team in trade before the CBA ends/lockout. And Denver doesn't want to lose him for nothing, and will do the best they can do with the team Anthony deems he wants to go to. That team will most likely will not be the Bulls.

    And let's suppose Noah has put on the necessary weight/muscle so that he no longer is movable in the paint. Then his defensive value skyrockets. And lets suppose Rose does break out(25 ppg and up). Maybe Carmelo does decide to come here then, and Denver would want Noah then, but not Noah and Deng's contracts/$25 Million per year combined. I'd imagine they'd take Noah, and throw aways James Johnson and Kurt Thomas(along with the Charlotte pick and our own).

    Even if this would happen would we want to trade Noah next February if he has become a dominant immovable defensive force in the lane with 13 ppg and 12-13 rebounds with 2 blocks a game? If so we better bust out the HGH for Taj, and hope for the best or we will have one of the weakest five spots in the NBA. I've seen Asik, and I'm not impressed. He shoots in the 40's from the line, and that says it all offensively. Defensively he's going to be a walking foul waiting to happen.

    Bottom line: only if the Bulls have become a very near contender with Derrick and Joakim will Carmelo consider coming here. And then will be changing strengths rather then gaining/improving.

    Again, I'm not sure what's going to happen with Derrick. Honestly, while Doug says it's meaninglesss, I've watched the USA/Derrick at the FIBA tournament, and I'm dissapointed. His seeming confusion putting up nothing but one handed floaters, and abandoning his deadly mid range jumper is just unfortunate. Rationalizations don't add up to the fact that scoring stars find a way/don't average 8 ppg or whatever. I've watched him, and Derrick has been intimidated by the situation. They may not have asked him to score, but certainly they have not forbidden him to.

    My point is I'm betting Noah will have added the final piece/necessary weight to reach the next level as an ultra valuable immovable defensive anchor. As for Derrick, I'm not sure what effect his dissapointing effort at FIBA will have on him. But I do think he could use this if Thib's is a good head coach, Thib's will use this with Derrrick to once and for all embrace his ability and necessity as a scoring star. So it could work out as failures often do open the door of realization/actualization for driven, hard working utlra-talented people like D-Rose.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Also Denver would have to move Nene if they did receive Noah in trade. I don't know if they could get a quality SF/SG/wing by moving him.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I was watching some part of the US-Russia game today and Rose looked clueless on more than one occasion on defense. He was not aggressive and looked like he was just raising his hand that too not in front of the shot/player. Forget his stats on offense but he looked lost on defense. Shooting well against Angola is not the benchmark....

    I agree with your point. I think this team except for Boozer is not proven. Not to resurrect Steve Francis...we still don't know if Rose is more Francis or tending towards Deron Williams...And if we know that...I am sure a NBA player knows it better.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    While I think Derrick has been lost somewhat offensively/scoring, I still think he will find a way to beome a scoring force(25ppg or more) in this league, but it is not a given. He's a uniqe, tremendous young man, but nothing is gaurunteed. Only he can see what he has the potential to become, and embrace it wisely and effectively. Hopefully Thibs is the man who can help him find his way to that end. I hope he succeeds. But his aggressiveness scoring wise and going about it smartly drawing fouls and knowing how and when to attack the basket rather then always evading contact is up to him. To me, I have to believe he will succeed or it will just be extremely dissapointing.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    The most interesting line in Steins piece is the last one.

    "When it comes to fit alongside the new power forward and the new coach, Melo isn't nearly the fit that Noah is".

    I am virtually certain that the new coach(TT) wholeheartedly concurs, and his ought to be the most important opinion.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Guys, let's not throw him out in the trash because of one game that you all saw...Rose is not Steve Francis and he is NOT Deron Williams . These are players with different styles. Rose is more athletic than Williams. He is going into his 3rd year after making the all-star team last year. He is only 21 years old. You guys expect the world after 2 years. I'll tell all of you this then... Lety's trade Derrick Rose and see what kind of team you'ver got now... You guys are unrealistic...

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    Amen.....

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    MORE COACHING NEWS:

    Ed Pinckney is joining the Bulls coaching staff too.

    http://www.csnphilly.com/09/10/10/Pinckney-Joins-Bulls-as-Assistant-Coach/landing_sixers.html?blockID=308408&feedID=694

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I FOUND YOU!!!!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZd_OxdgmOg

    ...mmm.

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    Evil....That was too funny!!! That was some hilatious $#!t!!!! But when Mr. Miserable went to stay with Mr. Happy for a long time, I had to say wait a minute! Happy ain't jammin' his boy is he? Just asking? TOO FUNNY!

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    :)

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    It's not expecting the world. If we need to attract a top 10 player like Melo(with all due respect to the news, rumors etc..), Rose has to step up big time this season. I believe one of the reasons LBJ didn't come to Chicago is the reality of Wade being a sure bet than Rose. I know Rose is young and is progressing very well but if the Bulls have to speed up the process of contending, we need a superstar to go along with him. Otherwise, we have to wait for a few years with a lot of doubts creeping in and promises being shown by Rose.
    About FIBA, it is not the offense because Durant is the go-to guy there and he is deferential to him, but his defense from what I saw. Maybe it is a combination of having Odom, Love in the front court which is responsible for him to struggle but for me he looked like he was not doing that well on defense against the Russian PG during the 1st quarter.

  • In reply to AlgernonHPenn:

    A.P. I just said I thought Derrick Rose is going to be a 25ppg and up scoring machine. But he still has some things to improve upon to reach that level of production no question. And yes, if you've really watched most of Derrick's recent FIBA action clearly his scoring would have helped in a couple of close contests including vs. Russia.

    The dude has just fallen in love with these one handed floaters around the basket which are only a small part of his game instead of relying on his often deadly accurate mid range jumper. He's not perfect, and a little criticism doesn't mean he's trash or should be traded. Take a chill pill on the overreaction/categorizations of others. At least of myself.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I don't know what you have been watching but Rose has had a very good Fiba tournament. Yes he's not scoring but he doesn't have to. He's running the offense and NOT turning the ball over. His defense has improved. He's showing his versatility as a plyer and that's great. I'm not worried about his scoring. The kid can score. I feel that with a guy like Boozer, he will flourish in pick and roll situations. Remember what they did on pick and roll? Noah would dive to the basket,(real bad) or Brad Miller would shoot it from the top of the key. Now Rose has another option with Boozer. He will be a better offensive player because of this. And if he has improved his NBA 3PT range, then he's now a perennial All-Star point guard....

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to MarkNorman:

    So, Noah's value skyrockets if he gets obese? LOL

  • In reply to magestew:

    Funny how everyone is running away from Kobe in the West

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I agree 100% with you. The Bulls should hold out and not give up on Noah because Deng,Gibson,and Johnson plus picks is about the best deal they can get if his choices are indeed down to the Bulls and Knicks. Carmelo still has the edge over Denver cause he doesn't have to sign an extension with ant other team that Denver may threaten to trade him to. If it is down to the Bulls and Knicks then he should be a Bull by no later than the trading deadline with Noah still a part of the team.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Actually, the real deadline everyone should be watching is December 15th. That's the earliest any team can make a trade. It is significant for the Bulls becasue with all of the additions they have made, more pieces may become available to make a trade happen. so the trading deadine is just a deadline. December 15th may be the day the Bulls pull the trigger on that deal. I've benn saying all along , it's to the Bulls advantage to wait it out. Denver will be an unhappy place not only for Melo, but for Kmart and Chauncey....

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    "All this Noah trade talk is just BLOGGERS like Doug and Nick trying to get attention. They are good at it too. Mission accomplished, I guess."

    And what is it that you are doing exactly? Legitimate journalism?

    MrHappy has NO knowledge of what he speaks. Believe me, I know. I'm a man. I'm 40.

  • CORRECTION:

    The Bulls' management wasn't really going after LBJ.

    They were targeting Wade and Bosh. And now they have moved onto Melo.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Don't make assumptions you don't know. Logically, the Bulls wanted LBJ more than Bosh and Wade. He is the best player of the three and there was a good chance of getting him rather than getting Wade or Bosh. Bosh and Wade were iffy from the beginning and had made their choices more obvious than LBJ who had more reason to come to Chicago. So, don't try to be smart-pants and claim something you or I have no idea about.
    About Melo coming to the Bulls, except for this latest report from Yahoo Sports, there has been no link of Melo to the Bulls. It is just a desire on our(Bulls Fans) part.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Ya gotta admire Mappy to even have the stones to say "trust me I know". Ha. Does he know more than he knew about the special info on DWade....which was what BTW? Oh yeah NOTHING. Pure comedy. Someone is off their meds...or taking too many...either way I'm enjoying his ridiculousness with my post NFL kickoff hangover.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Keep Noah, forget Melo, he commands the ball too much and would take away from Rose. Rose is blossoming with team USA! I'm excited to see the future of Rose and Noah in Chicago.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    What Stein is saying might be outdated news. The discussions might have been going on with Noah but the Melo to Bulls desire from Melo is the latest news. It can be interpreted as Denver want Noah as one of the pieces to build upon and the Bulls might be giving Noah a parting gift. Can the Bulls increase Noah's salary and trade him as part of the salary exchange for Melo?

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    No - increasing Noah's salary now makes him a "Poison Pill" player in terms of salary matching. A Poison Pill has never been traded since rules are so complex. After a year the Poison Pill becomes BYC (Base Year Compensation) Player. They are hard to trade also but not as difficult as Poison Pill. In Third season the salary can be matched normally

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    IS OUR BIG 3 ENOUGH TO BEAT THE HEAT

    If we can get melo n still hold on to Noah I. Definitely think we can take them out as well as the lakers...we would have the most solid starting 5 n the league but it takes more than that to win championships n that might b the only question mark we have to take down the heat..
    I thought this was interesting tho I know its only based on opinion ..

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/458058-carmelo-anthony-why-his-bulls-trio-will-lose-to-lebron-james-miami-heat

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I forgot to add it takes a solid bench to win championships.....but ima bulls fan til I die n I still like our chances no matter who is our bench I know thibs will get the best outta our team

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    if the bulls were to win a championship with this team which i honestly think can happend its goina be these reasons and nothing else

    joakim stops being pushed around in the paint and puts on weight and atleast get to 240 and stops worryib about developing a jump shot and worry about defending the post an paint..

    derrick rose three point shot is and will be better but by how much? thats his biggest key remember beng gordon was on our top defense a few yrs ago and hes ben gordon arguebly one of the worst defenders and rose improvement frm usa and rookie year is staggering.. rose was really bad but now is called one of the best on ball defenders by coach k on team usa..

    luol deng just shoots more.. he isnt a bad shooter at all he just needs to shoot them.. hes got a really smooth stroke and is very accurate..

    boozer just put the effort on defense.. which he fits noah perfectly because okur player more pf at crunch time because boozer played the paint better by using his muscles.. noahs strength is obvs rebounding,weak side help and energy.. noah can play more defense on pf if he chooses to stay 230 pounds..

    stay healthy(biggest thing stopping us from 56+ wins)

    & last but not least a sg and a center

    roony turiaf and rudy fernandez both are cheap options with the perfect fit.. trade omer,jj,draft picks for both..

    roony avgs 2 blks and 5 rebs in just 20 mins with size and alot of energy..

    either rudy,anthony parker,nick young or brandon rush all wont cost xavier henry compensation so stop dreaming but all can play 25 mins or more with brewer and all can shoot 40% from 3 and all making less than 3 million a year..

    kurt thomas & keith bogans should be a injury replacements..

    4 million dollars and two key bench spots i say fill it with

    turiaf and one of rudy,rush,parker or young..

    luol deng

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    strach luols name lol im on my iphone.. sorry

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Mr. Happy is like a poor man's Jay Mariotti. Talks out of his ass, sounds like an idiot, and nobody reads the crap he throws up.

    My advice is to stop wasting your time, Happy. No matter how many CAPS you use, it doesn't make your flawed and tired arguments interesting to read. Please go away.

  • Not sure that chandler(the Wilson variety)is a young prospect. At this point he is pretty much a proven mediocre journeyman at best. I think that Randolph still qualifies as a young prospect.

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