Deng + Noah for Melo? You in or out?

noah-melo.jpg

There's been a lot of discussion in our comment section about Carmelo Anthony given the rumors of him refusing to sign an extension and a seeming preference to leave Denver.   However, most of that talk has centered around a view I consider ridiculous, Deng + Gibson + picks for Anthony.

If we can do that trade, then absolutely, we do it.  It's a no-brainer, captain-obvious, hell yes, type of trade.   However, for those same reasons, Denver isn't touching that with a 10 foot pole.   Deng's salary commitment is so high and Denver is so close to clearing almost everyone off the books that there's simply little incentive for them to take back Deng's future commitment just to get a role player type prospect and some terrible draft picks.

They also probably don't do this trade either, but if they were willing, are you in?

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First, I know the immediate gut reaction is going to be "We can't trade Noah!  He's the heart and soul of this team!".  Yes, he was the heart and soul of this team last season (though let's keep in perspective that the team wasn't that great), and he's my favorite Bull.   Those who've followed my ramblings for a few years know that I was one of the most vocal Noah supporters even back in 2006 when I hoped he would declare so we could take him #2 overall over both Tyrus and Aldridge.

I've been hooked to the Noah bandwagon for as long as anyone, so I would not trade him lightly.  

However, let's take a look at this deal realistically before we get all emotional and talk ourselves out of trading Luol Deng for Pau Gasol because we love him, and he has so much potential.

The on court perspective:
Immediately after making this deal, the Bulls are screwed at center.   The front court rotation now becomes Boozer, Asik, Gibson, Thomas, and a player to be named later.   That's pretty brutal at the center position unless Asik is a massive sleeper (and he's not, at least not this year).   

Given what's left in the front court, it's hard for me to get a handle on whether this team is even better after the trade.   Deng isn't in Melo's league in terms of overall scoring, but he's not a slouch at SF either.   Melo isn't providing more three point shooting and also uses the mid range game significantly.

Melo's obviously a much better shot creator which would draw coverage away from Rose and allow him to operate more freely, and his body type and shot types should translate well to an off the ball role similar to Deng's.

Melo gives the offense another deadly option as well as a clutch scorer at the end of games to help close teams out or hit last second shots, the latter of which Rose has struggled with considerably thus far.

The upgrade at SF is highly notable, and the Bulls offense probably plays better after this trade, but from an overall team perspective, the defense is tremendously worse, and I think the gap is probably larger than the offensive improvement immediately though.

The salary perspective:
You're giving Melo a new max extension as part of any trade if one goes down.   In that situation, Melo projects to make around 20-21 million a season for the next five years after this one.   He'll remain in his prime the entire time, and his body doesn't seem prone to break down given his style of play.

Noah and Deng combined will probably average around three million more than Melo per year for the length of Deng's contract after Noah signs an extension.   So you are left with Melo + a three million dollar player vs Deng + Noah long term.  Does Melo bring enough to the table to justify such a move?

In a perfect world where no one gets hurt and we don't look at how the roster evolves, I don't think he does.  He's basically adding relatively efficient volume scoring and shot creation.   You're getting free throws, points, and a bit more passing than Deng.   Defensively you're probably in break even territory, while Luol rebounds a bit better.  

With Noah you get the passing, ball handling, and lots of energy on offense while getting someone with defensive anchor potential on defense.   While I think it's easier to find a Noah than an Anthony, you're not going to go out and get another Noah easily either, and certainly not at the three million you'd have left in the same salary space.  

However there are two compelling arguments for the swap. 

First, in terms of talent you can only play five guys at once, and so while Deng + Noah strike me as providing more talent to the Bulls roster now, it also makes the roster harder to improve because you need to find an elite player to improve upon a good player.   With Anthony and a scrub the total talent is less perhaps, but an average player then gives you a considerable upgrade.

Condensed talent makes it easy to improve your team.   Depth with tons of good, but not elite, talent makes it very difficult to continue to improve, because the caliber of player required to make an improvement is so much greater.   From that perspective, Anthony is the best player of the group, and typically the team getting the best player wins the trade every time.

Next, Deng and Noah are both considerable injury risks going forward.   They've both have considerable injuries in the past, and Noah's body type and style of play make him a career injury risk.   Anthony seems like a much better bet in terms of staying healthy though, of course, anything can happen.

The other team perspective:
Finally, one way to quickly wage a trade in terms of fairness is to pretend you are the other team.   If you are Denver, what would you say to this deal.   I'm pretty sure you'd respond with a bunch of jpg images with the word FAIL on them, or drop a GTFO on it. 

Carmelo has been the anchor of a team which has flirted with title contention.   Luol Deng and Joakim Noah have played alongside Derrick Rose and managed to break even twice and neither can stay healthy.   Seriously, a Denver fan spits on you after making this proposal.

Conclusion
:
In the end, two things have to happen for you to want to do this trade.  First, you must remove your emotional ties to Noah.   We all love Noah, how could you not love Noah if he's on your team?    So viewing him in a rational light right now is probably fairly difficult.

Second, you have to believe that Melo is a legitimate franchise player and not a volume chucker.   Given Denver's success with the relatively mediocre supporting casts, I tend to believe that, but I understand why others do not.

In the end, I think this trade makes us a worse team right now, but it makes us more likely to win a championship later.   I look at a team with Rose, Melo, and Boozer at it's core, and think "I'm a legit contender with the right role players" while acknowledging we don't have them now.   I look at a team with Rose, Deng, Boozer, and Noah and don't reach the same conclusion, I'm a star player away still.

Comments

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  • OUT.

    To Nuggets: Luol Deng, Taj Gibson, James Johnson and multiple picks.
    To Bulls: Carmelo Anthony

    http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5660566

    The scoring is about the same, but the Bulls lose out on rebounding. Therefore, they should sign Louis Amundson with some of their remaining CAP money. I think that would put the Chicago Bulls' over the top.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    You sir, are an idiot.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    i wanna start off by saying i am new to this post thingy..... but extremely excited to find a website that talks bulls 24/7...being a bulls fan from the bay area i can honestly say bulls fans are the most passionate fans in all of the nba....sorry kind of off topic but thats how juiced i am about signing up n about this bulls coming season lol

  • In reply to flyjr1988:

    Welcome Bay area Bulls fan, and yeah we are 24/7 all Bulls talk and very passionate about our Bulls. And wow! how did you become a Bulls fan living in the Golden State area? Again welcome and we look forward to reading your comments about our Chicago Bulls.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    i thik you guys are over rating melo he is better than deng but not by much i will give deng and noah but in returnd of melo and other guy!

  • In reply to Richy:

    its not over rating when the guy is a multiple time all star and has won a gold medal and has the leader of his team since being in Denver. I kind of agree with you that the Bulls should get another guy back as well but we all know that's probably isn't going to happen that way and I for one would really hate to give up Noah cause I really do believe he is one of those special type of players that are hard to come by. I would rather Melo just sign as a free agent and do what his buddies on South Beach have done and take less money with the Bulls but I know that's wishful thinking. The Bulls are one very good player away though from being right there with Miami on a every year basis and hopefully Melo sees this and wants to sign with The Bulls.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I with Reese1 on this trade. I'd like to see Melo here as a free agent, although I suspect New York would be where he'd like to end up.

  • In reply to Richy:

    i check the trade machine we could get in returne melo and balkman that trade is good!

  • In reply to Richy:

    thats given noah ,deng,johnson the need 2 smallforwards

  • In reply to Richy:

    Rich,

    As you said before, wouldn't Cleveland like Deng and Gibson for LBJ right about now? They same might hold true for Denver.

    I wouldn't give up Noah, if I were JP. They should just offer up Deng, Gibson, Johnson, Cash and picks. They could end up getting it done.

  • In reply to Richy:

    We will be in the finals, mark my words! You bulls' fans wanna know why? Not only we got a brewer in our team we got the boozer as well! whoahhaaha. Chicago=beertown!

  • What does that give Denver?

    PG - Billups/Lawson
    SG - Affalo/Karl
    SF - Deng/Smith
    PF - Harrington/Gibson
    C - Nene/Williams

    That's very competitive.

  • Doug,

    How is that offer crap?

    Only Charlotte, in the East where he would be traded too, can come to a deal like that.

    Denver doesn't need a Center. They have Nene'.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Nene is undersized. He's a more natural PF. Therefore Noah has to be part of the deal, especially from a talent perspective. If we deal Noah and we manage to get out of the East, we get absolutely crushed by the Lakers. We'd be lucky to win one against them.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Wow. I think I'm in. The consolidate talent and improve argument did it for me. It's difficult to go from good to great players. But easier to go from bad to average. Melo is an elite player while Deng and Noah are simply good. Couple that with Rose growing into elite and Boozer maintaining above average we begin to match the firepower in South Beach. That's saying a lot.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    JUST A THOUGHT:

    As I said before, if Melo gets traded I see him going to the Eastern Conference. Assuming that is true, I can identify only 7 teams where he could possibly sign a long-term extention.

    #1.) Chicago Bulls
    #2.) New York Knicks
    #3.) New Jersey Nets
    #4.) Washington Wizards
    #5.) Orlando Magic
    #6.) Atlanta Hawks
    #7.) Charlotte Bobcats

    Now, out of those 7 teams the Bulls can put together the best trade package. The only teams that can come close are the Bobcats, Hawks and Magic.

    But, why would Melo want to be in a conference with Miami, Orlando, Atlanta and/or Charlotte when he can be in a conference with Milwaukee, Indiana, Detroit and Cleveland?

    I'm giving the edge to Chicago, when it comes to a trade.

    Free agency is different. New York could have the edge. He obviously has roots there.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Correction: I meant DIVISION, not conference.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    1. Bulls do have a big disadvantage even with Noah. NY will give up almost anyone other than Amare and they will give up Amare too but Denver obviously will not take him. NY definitely is the top runner for Melo with the home town roots.
    2. I disagree that Denver will even take Noah+Deng now. They will have bigger suitors like Portland(they want talent and all that division stuff is moot if you are a Denver GM) can give Batum+Aldridge+picks for Melo. That's probably a better deal Noah+Deng. I think Denver will accept Noah+Deng+picks package only if Noah, Deng have a great season until Feb deadline and remain healthy. If they taper off with all the protection they are getting, it will be difficult to deal them for Melo

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Any team dealing a superstar will not care for what they have in other positions. They just want maximum young talent back even if it is the same position. They will figure out what to do with the extra players later as they are screwed for the next couple of seasons anyhow without the superstar

  • OR...

    PG - Billups/Lawson
    SG - Affalo/Smith
    SF - Deng/Harrington
    PF - Anderson/Gibson
    C - Nene/Williams

    They guy they need to replace in Kenyon Martin, who is a PF.

    Hence, getting Taj Gibson makes sense.

  • Doug,

    Only if the Bulls could get Nene in the deal as well.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    IF the Bulls get Melo and Nene, then you can count me in on giving up Noah, assuming of course than Nene is healthy.

    However, to get them both the Bulls probably have to add a lot more to the deal, Taj, multiple picks.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    FAIR OR UNFAIR?

    * The Chicago Bulls and Milwaukee Bucks tie for most back-to-back games with 23. The fewest is the Lakers with 15.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Wow, 15 seems inordinately low, how did Kobe manage that.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    its crap. the bulls had the most last year, too. i would be ok with the heat having 25, however. :)

  • Doug,

    WHAT?

    Put down the crack-pipe. Chandler, Galinari and Curry is not a better package than Deng, Gibson, Johnson and mutliple #1 picks, which includes Charlotte's pick.

    Come on Doug. Get real.

  • Doug,

    No-way in hell is that a better trade package.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    NEWSFLASH:

    Deng and Gibson can put up double-doubles.

    Galinari and Chandler can't. Plus, two picks are better than one.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Deng and Gibson put up double doubles? When? Deng has never averaged a double double. And Gibson last year avearaged a double single.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I'm still iffy about this trade. A good big man with energy to run the floor on both ends comes far and few between. I like the thought of Boozer and Noah giving the Bulls a tough front line of rebounding and scoring. Melo is a superstar, with the ability to score from anywhere. This is kind of a double edge sword type trade.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    CHICAGO'S OFFER:

    Deng, Gibson, Johnson and multiple #1 picks is a NICE deal for Denver.

    Why?

    - They don't lose anything in SCORING.
    - They get better DEFENSIVELY.
    - They improve their REBOUNDING tremendously.
    - They fill two roles (SF and PF) with young talented players.
    - They can keep Deng and Gibson for the long-term.

    It's also a nice deal for Carmelo Anthony.

    Why?

    - He'll get to play with TWO All-Stars.
    - He'll undoubtedly be on a TOP 3 SEED in the Eastern Conference.
    - He'll compete for a CHAMPIONSHIP for the next several years.
    - He'll be in a TOP 3 MEDIA MARKET, which means way more endorsements.
    - His wife can get a job in Radio or TV in Chicago, without question.

    The Bulls' brass should be going after MELO in a heavy way. He's 9-3 head-to-head vs. Dwyane Wade and 8-4 head-to-head vs. LeBron James. He's the piece that restores the DYNASTY in Chicago, no question about it.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Anthony makes us a dynasty but Lebron would not have(according to you).

    Yet other than you there is not a person on earth who has ever watched a basketball game at any level that would trade Lebron to acquire Anthony.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    FYI (to Doug):

    Luol Deng and Taj Gibson = 30 double-doubles combined last year.
    Danillo Galinari and Wilson Chandler = 9 double-doubles combined last year.

    I'm know who I'm taking and so does Denver's management.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    All you seem to know is on STATS...apparently you little to NO knowledge of CAP ROOM and GMs MONEY MANAGEMENT.

  • In reply to mdot1986:

    #1Bullsfan,

    And you remain CLUELESS.

    We are talking TRADES, not FREE-AGENCY.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    No you are CLUELESS b/c both trades and FREE AGENCY involve salaries. Your previous post shows that your "knowledge" is vastly limited b/c you can't understand that production alone isn't what makes a trade work.

  • In reply to mdot1986:

    #1Bullsfan,

    You are the one who remains CLUELESS.

    I punched that trade in on REALGM and the TRADE MACHINE.

    It was ACCEPTED both times.

  • In reply to mdot1986:

    I'd make this trade. Some people consider Carmelo a top 5 player in the league. For those that don't, I think everyone considers him to be one of the top 10 players.

    If you can keep Rose and acquire a top 10 player in the league, you have to do it. If Rose develops as we all hope, then the Bulls would have two players who are top 10 in the league. Who else can say that besides the Heat?

    And the Bulls would still have Boozer.

    I think this is a no-brainer, despite the fact I really like Noah. You have to give something to get something and it has to hurt a little bit. It would hurt, but I believe the Bulls are better off after this hypothetical trade.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    REMINDER:

    http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/status/20797296475

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Deng had 13 double doubles last year.
    Carmelo had 13 double doubles last year.

    So this should actually just be a straight up trade of Deng and Carmelo.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    With the recent talk of being one player away, I watched the 92' Bulls against Cleveland(of all teams) in the Eastern Conference Finals on NBATV's greatest games last night.

    Watching that game I realized two things. 1) The Cavs had one of the better front courts of that era with Larry Nance and Brad Daugherty with John "Hot Rod" Wiliiams playing up to his capabilities in that series(or at elast in that game). Two: Scottie Pippen at that time, and during stretches of his career taking into account scoring(and defense, rebounding, passing) was a legit second star.

    Jordan basically sucked in that game until the last eight minutes or so where got like three three point plays because he just couldn't hit a shot. The defense in that game by the Cavs was hard core physical D at it's finest. But when push came to shove, Cleveland worn out failed to employ the aggressive doubling of Jordan, and Michael blew the doors off of Ehlo.

    The point is Scottie had 29 points in that game with at least three blocks if not more and two or three steals. When you look at that four year stretch by Scottie in the playoffs from 89-90 to the end of 93' with the three-peat complete he averaged about 20 ppg on nearly 50% shooting with 2.5 steals, seven boards, and six assists. Now those are the numbers of a second star. A Robin if you will. It's important to note that Scottie had several 30 point games and high 20's and was not just some 20 and seven consistent, but plodding machine. He could give you the big games when needed.

    And that's with probably the greatest lead star/Batman of all time. So that tells you with Rose reaching his max potential, and probably lucky to reach near Wade status if so, that he would need at least a Pippen level all around superstar, or a more prolific scorer perhaps such as Carmelo.

    Anthony at 26/27 has had four playoffs with 45% or higher FG's and 25 ppg. Really, there's only so many of those in a player. Maybe he's got two of those left in him, and still damn good in another two.

    Do the Bulls need a second superstar to go all the way/win a championship? Almost without question. Even if Boozer can reach a higher level say 22-23ppg with 11 boards(and Noah with the bulk gains the muscle to eek out 15ppg on 48%)the Bulls still don't have the strong scoring guard play(a Rip or Vinny J) alongside Derrick. A guy who can go for 19-24 on a couple of given nights of a series on quality FG's or 3's/FTA's high efficiency. I'd then think you have to have a second prolific scoring superstar.

    So we most likely would need a Carmelo/quality prolific scorer to win a championship. But giving up perhaps a legit 15ppg, 13-14 boards, two blocks, and if he's at anchor muscle/weight level a defensive center nightmare for Howard, Bynum etc. Even if his scoring remains at say 12ppg on near 50% that's still a huge championship plus impact.

    I just don't think if we gain a 2(superstar level player), but give up a 1.5 superior overall player at a critical in Thib's system as the defensive last line of defense, we gain enough to win it all. Unless Asik or somebody else comes along who's a solid center 10ppg on 50%, 9-10 boards, very good interior defender.

    So yes we need Melo to win. But we're going to have to find a quality starting caliber center particularly defensively to make that viable. Any thoughts on who that guy might be/is that guy out there(and someone we could possibly get our hands on)?

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Nice post. No idea who they'd get and finding solid starting centers is not easy, but it's easier than finding stars.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    The other thing about that game is Horace Grant always had that mid post/lane move where he'd receieve the ball, and then spin to the basket off a strong seal using his quickness and long arms to gain an edge, and lay the ball in. Also stopping sometimes to release that scoop hook.

    I wish we could show those films to Joakim, and see what he can do with those two moves which are somewhat similar to moves he already employs. He obviously is not the offensive talent Horace Grant was, but still they seem like two post options he could quite possibly utilize.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Oh Man!! This post is MrHappy's wet dream. Now..,,if Melo himself posts here that he is not coming, he will not give up.

    Even with Melo, the bulls will probably be in kind of add mode for the next 2 years because of the loss of depth. That said, with the new CBA we can probably get "B" level stars such as Kaman, Camby to fill the depth after next year. Offcourse, if we are getting Melo, we should be ready to give up everybody except Rose. Good players will play for less like Haslem in Miami if we get Melo.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Doug, I agree...

    For all the reasons you mention, I'll stay with Noah and Deng.

    In this summer of free agency I think several teams have lost their identity with player movement.

    At least I know who my Bulls are beginning with Noah, Derek, Taj, Deng, and others. But especially Noah.

    One day, when and if Noah becomes a Kirk Hinrich, he may get traded, but not anytime soon.

  • In reply to rkraneis:

    Agreed. I would like to go to war and see what we have.....at least until February...:)

  • How much is that Charlotte pick worth?

    In other words, is Noah/Deng/Bulls #1 vastly different from Noah/Deng/Charlotte #1?

  • Big reward ie Melo takes big sacrifice = Deng/Noah/Gibson

    That's a worst case giving 2, possibly 3 starters up for Melo but Melo, like Lebron, and Wade is way ahead of just about everyone with what they can do. They are one of the few players who can singhandely win a game/take over a game.

    They have that "Matrix" ability to play at another level and take over. :-)

  • I've become a monstrous Noah fan. I know Carmelo is freaking Carmelo, but I think we've got something special with Noah. His interviews are always fantastic and he hustles. I'm not the biggest fan of taking a step back at the Center position. Noah's the kind of guy who will be good-to-great for the next decade. I think he's an untradeable asset, along with Rose. Build around those two, good things will happen.

  • I would give up Deng & Noah but I would want back Melo and Anderson. From what I have seen from "The Bird Man" he is a energy player who can play good defense and get the crowd into the game. Is he as good as Noah? NO! But he would be important to a Bull's team that was with out Noah.

  • Even though he's listed at 6'11" I seriously doubt it. Look at him next to Kenyon Martin and tell me he's really 6'11".

    His game doesn't scream PF even though that's what he was listed at when he came into the league. Regardless, Gasol and Bynum shoot right over the top of him. Not that they wouldn't over Noah too.

  • Doug,

    Why not give $ Luol Deng, who could be a very young and productive player for Denver? Billups is coming off the books in 2 seasons, while Martin, Smith and Affalo could be coming off after next season.

    Getting Deng and Gibson would give Denver a YOUNG CORE piece at each position, all of which would be under-contract.

    I don't know what the future SF crop looks-like, but it's not like Deng is a bad option for them, if MELO decides to leave Denver.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Deng and Gibson aren't core pieces, they're role players.

  • In reply to romanfarraday:

    Precisely

  • In reply to romanfarraday:

    Yeah we had about that many back-to-backs last year if I'm not mistaken.

    I'm just glad we don't play Miami until mid Jamuary and then again late February, and the final in March. Gives us a chance to gel and find our identity under Thib's.

  • In reply to romanfarraday:

    the bulls have 2 good primary scorers now. thats all you need. why kill defense and rebounding to bring in another high volume scorer, especially when hes inefficient and brings little else to the table. the bulls definitely need a true elite player; unfortunately melo isnt one.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    out, I'm probably one of the biggest Noah fans, and I don't want to lose him, b/c I think he brings a unique talent to the Bulls and that is beasting it whenever needed. He's the perfect compliment to Rose and he seems to be a Bulls with passion. He is a guy that is the difference between a contender and a pretender, b/c of his intangibles.
    I'd love Melo, but not for both Noah and Deng, that's too much.

  • BULLS SCHEDULE:

    http://www.nba.com/bulls/media/schedule_1011.pdf

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Yeah it looks like the bulls play every holiday this year, wonder how thats going to affect a young team like the bulls. January looks brutal.

  • In reply to Snypershawn:

    How about Oct/Nov... @OKC, Portland, NY, @BOS, DEN, @HOU, @SA, @Dallas, @Lakers, @PHO, @ DEN... some early tests

  • In reply to italia8811:

    thats not the whole oct/nov schedule but the ones that are the toughest (imo)

  • In reply to italia8811:

    NY? They aren't a test. The only real test is LA, OKC, Bos, and Den to me. The others are good matchups but ones that aren't cause for much concern.

  • In reply to mdot1986:

    Maybe not in March but NY is in the first month. Dallas and SA and more than just good match-ups. I'm not concerned about the games but if they are good match-ups those are still games that will test the bulls, especially on the road

  • In reply to italia8811:

    IN.

    What this analysis points out, in a roundabout way, is that THE BULLS STILL NEED A STAR. Not a quasi-star like Noah. A real star like Melo. Rose + Boozer + Noah + solid role players is a nice team that will never get past the 2nd round. Rose + Boozer + Melo + solid roleplayers is a title contender. I would give up any Bulls player or players besides Rose for a star player, and that includes Noah.

  • If I'm Denver, I don't do this deal based on one season of above-average defense and rebounding by Noah. He'd have to perform as well or better for one more season to prove last season was no fluke before I give up Melo for him and Deng. Now, if Melo makes one of those "trade me or I walk" threats, then yes, I'd probably make that deal if I couldn't find a better deal with another team.

    If I'm Chicago, I don't do this deal because I'm one of those people in the camp that thinks Melo is closer to a "volume chucker" than legit franchise player. From what I've seen of Melo, I believe the Bulls would play better team ball with Noah and Deng than they would with Melo and "who knows?" at the 5. I do, however, like CPBuff22's proposal of Melo and Anderson for Deng and Noah if Denver was amenable to it. We'd get some shot blocking and extra rebounding in return

  • In my opinion we have to be realistic that the Bulls wont be trading Noah anywhere. Noah is the first Bulls Front Court prospect in quite a while that has turned out to be a smart pick. Their projects in Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler from 2001 to roughly 2005ish wasn't exactly "stellar". They have also traded away some elite talent in Elton Brand, Ron Artest, and making a horrible move in swapping LaMarcus Alderidge for Tyrus Thomas. Noah for the Bulls is a trophy of finally being able to display a Draft Pick that has given them the results they had hoped for. Deng on the other hand i believe could be moved packaged with Gibson, but being realistic, we would not get a 2 or 3 spot with stellar talent. I believe with that package we could get a solid player .

  • I personally wouldnt do it, as good as melo is giving up two quality positions and then trying to replace something a lot of teams in the league dont have is going to hurt the bulls more than help them, whats the saying in the league never take a guard over a big. Although that came back to bite the Sam bowie supporters too right?

  • Doug, the only way to stop Mappy from hijacking your posts is to stop responding, particularly since he incessantly posts the same trade over and over and over again.

    I am at least as emontionally and rationally in the Noah camp as you are, and loved him from the moment that I laid eyes on him.

    While I think that Melo would have been the 3rd(ahead of Bosh) most coveted FA if he had been available this summer, I still have reservations about him having the championship "it" factor.

    I think that finding another Noah when you are already over the cap will be more of a miracle type of thing(Charlottes pick becoming a Rose type player)

    I am less of a fan of Deng than you are, but I would have a really hard time making the trade with Noah in it, and I think Denver does it easily in the absence of a better no brainer deal from elsewhere.

    I am not sure that I can really say yes or no while it is still a hypo, when/if it is actually on the table, I will have a better handle on my true feelings toward the deal, it will be a massive tug of war one way or another.

    Here in a nutshell is my anti- Anthony argument. I have posted the link before, hopefully for those of you are not ESPN insiders this will work.

    Sorry for taking up so much space but here is a copy of the entire page from ESPN.

    ESPN TV RADIO MAGAZINE INSIDER SHOP ESPN3 SPORTSCENTER En Espa

  • In reply to BigWay:

    There probably was a more efficient way of doing that but I am not aware of it.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    that makes you the melo of bulls confidential!

  • Atlanta is a good example, however, I think that we are really the Utah Jazz of the east, which is probably better than Atlanta, but still have no real shot at a championship unless Rose basically becomes MJ lite.

  • Wow, I am surprised to hear you say that.

    I am guessing that you are placing at least 50% of the value of that deal on the expiring part. Chandler appears to have somehow become massively overated and Galinari seems to be heading there also(even though he is by far the better player)

    I guess it depends on what Galinari does this season before the trade deadline. IF he massively improves his overall game then he becomes the best player(offered for Anthony)in the deal.

    However, Noah could also improve even more this season than he did last year. He might become a 15&12 or 15&15 guy this season.

  • The circus trip is especially brutal this year. Thibodeau better have them ready coming mid November or else they have a stretch where could conceivably go 2-10.

  • I would say that the Knicks would have to include Anthony Randolph in that deal to make it more appealing than the Bulls deal. I think that Randolph could blow up in D'Antoni's system making him untradable to NY fans.

    The Knicks got a real steal in the David Lee deal by getting Randolph when they should have gotten nothing, What the F was GS thinking.

  • Actually, if Denver starts now, (really they don't have to start until next season) and is willing to sacrifice the next 2 seasons, they can be the Miami of the summer of 2012.

    They could actually resign Anthony, make a couple of give away trades next year like Miami did and have enough cap space to sign 2 max guys in addition to Anthony. Their main obstacle would be to find a taker for Harringtons contract by the summer of 2012 when he has 3 years left.

    Melo, Howard and either Paul or Williams, that would be a better balanced big 3 than Miami, if not necessarily purely more talented.

  • We will be spared the heartache of making this decision because if Melo is indeed made available, several other teams will present much better deals than either the Bulls or the Knicks.

    Portland as Schaum said is one, Houston has accumulated a lot of talented players could be another, as well as any team that already has one of the bigtime 2012 FAs, like Orlando. Heck, by then maybe OKC decides they need to breakup their young core and add another superstar to Durant.

  • I wish we could keep Joakim, and we probably will end up doing just that unless a Melo deal does magically appear.

    I do expect Joakim(and Derrick) to have a killer year. He looks much bigger to me in the arms and trunk/back. If he can defend the biggest centers now it could be lane shutdown/fastbreak city. With taj joining the Party once again. I do hope Taj can bulk up likie Noah is doing, but I wouldn't count on it being that skinny at 24. But who knows. No doubt he'll put in the work.

  • You are correct, if the group of 4 does not include Noah as Doug proposes. Noah vs Galinari is tough to even evaluate, especially since both players could improve significantly this season.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Bigway,

    Deng is a way better ALL-AROUND player compard to Galinari.

    Did you guys watch NBA basketball?

  • Doug or anybody, I checked on Google and Comcast about NBA League Pass, but I couldn't find/don't know; with NBA league pass does somebody on Comcast who lives outside of Chicago/central Illinois get to see every Bulls game period or are there some blackouts for NBATV broadcasts etc.? If I can watch every Bulls game this year I'm going to fork over the $180 or whatever. And yes I will check out a few Miami games(hopefully the few losses). Appreciate the knowledge/help.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Never mind. I talked to somebody who has league pass, and checked the website under blackouts, and it sounds like the only Bulls games NBA league pass won't carry are those broadcast nationally ESPN etc. or on Comcast Sportsnet Chicago. Which means I/you can see all the Bulls games with it.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I totally agree with you Roman F! I love Noah and his effort but a big reward takes a big risk and without going all for it like we were trying to do this offseason! We will never get the Championship back in Chicago!
    Noah and Rose are still on their 1st payscale and are due for a huge increase which is well deserved! Is Noah worth $12M+/yr?
    With Deng's bad contract and to get a All-Star like Melo...it will take a lot also to keep him off the Knicks roster with CP3 & Amare!

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    It is kind of amazing how we value our team players and how we value others. The important thing about Carmelo is he is either a #1 or #2 player on a championship team? I definitely think so. Is Noah/Deng/Gibson #1 or #2 on a championship team? Definitely No..
    That's all it matters. Off course we will take a step back by acquiring Melo but we we have a chance of becoming a championship team by the time Melo is 28 years old or a contender for a championship. Otherwise, we are a good and exciting team....

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I am almost certain that Melo is not a #1 guy, he is just another "team leading scorer", sort of like that guy we already got rid of and won't even remember by the middle of this season. I say Melo is a #2, but not sure he is even in the class of Pippen as a #2.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I agree. Besides, balance wins rings. A team with 3 scorers yet lacking solid defenders and rebounders will lose in the post season to a team with 2 scorers IN ADDITION to solid defenders and rebounders. If Melo was a higher volume rebounder, lock-down defender, or averaged 5 or more apg, moving him for Deng and Noah would be more palatable. But you don't give up your 2 best defenders and your best rebounder for 1 scorer with no guarantee you'll be able to replace that D and board work...unless you're a bad team in rebuilding mode.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Basically guys... it all depends on if Melo wants to play for the Bulls. We have seen what these all star free agents are trying to do in teaming up with each other. If Carmelo wants to go to N.Y. no one can do anything to stop him from going there. I would love for him to sign with the Bulls when his free agency comes up because realistically, the Bulls are miles ahead of a more talented team than the Knicks next year even if Carmelo was to sign with them. If the knicks manage to get CP3 then its going to be a problem. Carmelo if he does indeed leave the Nuggets should want to play for a contender and whose to say, maybe he wants to take less money like his buddies have done to go to another team that has a chance to win now. All I can say is... these all stars have been talking and who knows what they already have planned. It may already be in the works for these guys to end up on the same team not Miami but N.Y. cause as I have stated, when these guys are free agents they can go wherever they want to go and right now seeing what has happened in Miami, I say Carmelo and CP3 ends up in N.Y. along with Stoudemire although I would like for him to be more sensible and sign with the Bulls or another real contender. That's why I have said before don't rule out L.A. or Portland cause he may take less money to go there as well. Bottom line... it all comes down to where Carmelo wants to play so I think it would be beneficial for the Bulls to have a good season this year and have a very good showing in the playoffs to maybe sway Carmelo's thinking if he is thinking of going somewhere else.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Orlando could be a destination for these guys services as well cause they are only a couple of years removed from being in the championship.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    I am a chicago native but I now live in Oxford,Ms and I get directv which allows me to see every Bulls game except the one they play in Memphis which doesn't matter since I always go to that game anyway If you live in Chicago or surrounding area's you might get blackout. What you might need to check out is the broadband which broadcast games on the internet you migh be better off with that

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Some people are just not listening if Melo does not sign that extention with Denver he is going to NY, and no where else and you can bet that after one season chris Paul will be on his way there as well. They have already made some serious signals about that in fact they have made their intentions know not like the 3 guys who just flirted with theams when they knew exactly where they were going.So all these stories about this trade and that trade for himare useless

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Hey BullySixChicago, Chicago has its own online casino black jack tournament for free at http://www.gameon247.com plus find other casino tournament games soon.

  • That is a great threesome, but objectively right now we lose all three head to head battles. Wade is better than Rose, Lebron is better than Anthony, and at least in the eyes of the league Bosh is better than Boozer(I think that Boozer is better for this Bulls team than Bosh).

    The Bulls best chance to compete with or beat the Heat will not likely come from acquiring a better big 3, but by developing a better and deeper overall team. Not saying that Deng is necessarily part of that, but Noah would seem to be.

    Like you said, hard to say no to that deal, luckily I don't think we ever get the chance to.

  • yes doug it is shit. But as I read in one of your earlier blogs our charlotte pick could turn out quite well for us. Lets say (hypothetically of course) Charlotte is terrible, gibson has another good year, JJ shows at least some signs of life, and Lu improves slightly over last year and stays healthy.(which with the improved team is at least feasible)

    I dont think that a terrible trade...

  • I SAY HELL NO! Noah, Gibson, Deng, Rose are the foundation of our defense. We can not risk the chemistry we already built so far. WE will be very dominate this year.

  • BACK-to-BACK LIST:

    http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=542

  • Mitchell,

    Deng is the most attractive player in that group.

    Who are you kidding giving me the name Galinari?

  • No Doug, I would not give up Noah. Because if Denver opens the season without Melo extended it means Denver will lose Melo to free agency exactly like Toronto and Cleveland with Bosh and James.

    Carmelo has total control over his next team because he can refuse to extend with any team Denver tries to trade him to and just become an unrestricted free agent.

    So just like last month with James/Bosh/Wade, the real task is to recruit Melo to choose the Bulls over the Knicks and all the other teams who will court him. Only after Melo chooses his next team can a deal be constructed. And given the goal is to win a ring, why would Melo choose to come to the Bulls without a center/Noah? He wouldn

  • No Doug, I would not trade Noah. Because if Denver opens the season without Melo extended it means Denver will lose Melo to free agency exactly like Toronto and Cleveland with Bosh and James.

    Carmelo has total control over his next team because he can refuse to extend with any team Denver tries to trade him to and just become an unrestricted free agent.

    So just like last month with James/Bosh/Wade, the real task is to recruit Melo to choose the Bulls over the Knicks and all the other teams who will court him. Only after Melo chooses his next team can a deal be constructed. And given the goal is to win a ring, why would Melo choose to come to the Bulls without a center/Noah? He wouldn

  • Hell no. I will trade for melo with anyone except rose, boozer and noah. Take it or leave it.

  • Sometimes watching a guy with the heart and soul of Noah outweighs superstars. I would like to just see the Bulls work their hardest and surprise everyone. But if they just make it to the 3 seed or so, I still vote for hustle, chemistry, and a heart that won't quit..............but that's just me!

  • What else do u expect from a person that prefer his career than his family ?
    What else do u expect from a person that humiliate his club on national tv broadcast ?
    What else do u expect from a person that say want to be man but don't have the gut to do it ?

    So they can eat shit and die for all i care.

  • In reply to CoolWind:

    Sorry i post this on the wrong pages. Please ignore it. Thanks.

  • In reply to CoolWind:

    Sorry i post this on the wrong page. Please ignore it. Thanks.

  • Mitchell, thanks for saving me the time explaining the Deng/Galinari trade off to Mappy. I was too busy not watching NBA basketball.

  • I assume that there will be no free agency next summer until a new CBA is signed, so we don't know the rules under which free agency will be conducted.

    However, I guess that it is safe to assume that the Bulls will not have the cap space to sign a bigtime free agent regardless of the outcome of the new CBA, mostly due to the cap implications of Noah's new deal.

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