All signs continue to point toward the eventual divorce between Carmelo Anthony and the Denver Nuggets.
League sources say it is now a matter of when, not if, Anthony and the Nuggets will go their separate ways.
Anthony is weighing whether to sign a
three-year, $65 million extension offered by the Nuggets. His dilemma,
league sources say, is what affords him the best chance of continuing
his career elsewhere. Anthony could sign with Denver and convince the
team to then trade him. His other option would be to not sign the
extension, thereby forcing the team to move him rather than risk losing
him next summer as a free agent.
He's obviously not going to sign the extension and hope to be traded. That's patently ridiculous. If he signs an extension it's part of a trade or because he wants to stay in Denver.
Anthony has the power to control his own destiny to an extent. Would you really give up much for Carmelo if he won't sign an extension as part of the deal? Seems like a bad idea.
So for the Bulls, you have to consider several facets:
1: Will Melo sign an extension to stay here, and if the answer is no, do you trade for him as a rental and hope to convince him?
2: Do the Bulls have any realistic hope of pulling off a trade? (Deng + Taj + JJ + 3 1sts?)
I think in the first case, it's awfully risky if Melo really has his heart set on NY to give up that much to watch him leave for nothing if he's unwilling to sign the extension. All signs point to Melo wanting to head to NY, and so if we can't get an extension done at the time of a trade then I think you need to pass.
In the second case, the Knicks don't have great pieces to offer, but nothing in the Bulls offer is that exciting either. If the Knicks throw Gallinari, Chandler + Douglas out there for Carmelo that's probably equivalent to our offer in terms of young prospects. Unless Denver loves Deng, and at his price that's unlikely, they'd prefer Curry's expiring contract.
It's always exciting when a marquee player hits the trade market, but in this case, I don't think Carmelo has the interest or the Bulls have the pieces to get something done. If they can, I hope it works out, but probably not worth getting your hopes up for.
Filed under: Trade rumors
Tags: Carmelo Anthony, chicago bulls, Denver Nuggets, trade rumors
It's not about getting one's hopes up, but rather raising EXPECTATIONS.
Pro sports is about WINNING (it all). Melo can help the Bulls do just that.
If Denver decides to trade him, there is no team in the Eastern Conference that can put together a better trade package then the Bulls and still have the pieces necessary to compete for a championship.
I can't see Denver being stupid enough to trade Melo within the Western Conference.
Many raised their EXPECTATIONS this summer for Lebron, Wade, and/or Bosh. How'd that work out?
do you ever just cut and paste your comments?
THAT....is funny.
Doug,
And stop saying that New York's offer of Chandler, Galinari and Douglas is just as good as what the Bulls can offer. That's simply not true.
You need to be smarter than that.
30 double-doubles vs. only 9...advantage Bulls.
Plus, the Bulls have DRAFT PICKS to offer up, unlike the Knicks.
Your argument would hold water if court production was the only variable to consider for trades. However, the point you fail to realize is that any expiring contract of Curry is better than Deng's contract which has three seasons left on it. You have more flexibility throughout the season and into next year as far as building after your star player departs.
#1Bullsfan,
That's not true at all.
Deng would be a replacement for Melo at SF, unlike Curry.
Counter?
As I said, Deng is better than Chandler and Galinari, plus the free-agent class next year isn't all that impressive, outside of Melo and maybe Parker.
Deng is better than Galinari, not a fact, just another Happyism.
Lets take a poll of Bulls fans and see how many would trade Deng straight up for Galinari. I say 80% or more.
Take a poll of KNicks fans, Galinari for Deng straight up. I say less than 10%.
So as usual you are in the minority and vastly so.
Given his contract vs Dengs, Galinari is already a better value to most NBA executives.
also, Deng is what he is, is not getting better, might already be in decline. Galinari is very likely to blow up this year, his 3rd in the league, and he missed his rookie year due to a back injury.
By New Years, Galinari is likely to be every GM's choice even if he already had Dengs contract.
But at his rookie deal, Galinari over Deng is a no brainer, and will only become moreso as this season progresses.
I do not think Melo will get traded unless there is a deal that Denver can not refuse. Denver will be stupid enough to trade Melo for garbage or at least a decent deal in return, they may not get a equal value in return but if assuming if they trade Melo say to New YOrk for Chandler, Galinari that is not a good value in return.
I see Melo staying with Denver and see if Denver try to work things out with Melo, if not then a strong possible chance that Denver will lose Melo and get nothing in return.
I don't think Chicago can get Melo, I would love to him as I say before and I would trade for him if he really consider us and sign the extension with us.
Would love to have Carmelo in Chicago, offensively, he is the Larry Bird of this generation.
I'm rooting for him to go to New Orleans over New York. What can they offer? **** New York.....
But other then that he's the Larry Bird of his generation.
I think there's zero chance Anthony comes here. Like LeBron and Wade, he'll want to play with his pals/guys he feels friendly with who have established their own legitmacy as stars like Chris Paul, Amare etc. It could turn around if Rose establishes himself this year with a shockingly good showing/upgrade to his game(some or all of the following: 25ppg, solid D, Bulls win 50+, an impressive showing by Derrick in a playoff series win).
Wouldn't Denver want to trade him by the deadline if he doesn't sign?
UnstopaBULL,
Yep.
But I think it could happen earlier.
The Bulls' brass needs to STEP-UP and make something happen here. Melo puts the Bulls in major contention for NBA CHAMPIONSHIPS. I don't think Deng does.
1. I think Denver would go for a S & T next year rather than accept average players. They get some picks and chance to sign good players if the new CBA handcuffs a lot of teams as Doug said below.
2. If the Bulls need to trade for him, they need a few things to work out:
a) Denver shouldn't trade Melo early and he should try to force a trade or give them ultimatum for a trade
b) Bulls need to have a great start to the season with Noah, Brewer, Deng, Taj and Rose all playing pretty well. Rose needs to prove it to Melo that he is worthy of joining him like a Dwight Howards, Brandon Roy and others to improve the trade value
I doubt this will all happen and it seems more like a pipe dream.
Is there any teams that we could get involved to make it a 3 way?
Utah, if Kirilenko is involved in he deal maybe.
I'd say Philly with Iggy involved, but I think they are keeping him now.
As I have stated before, Carmelo would really have to show the Bulls that he wants to join the team in order for the Bulls to make the necessary moves to acquire him. I would love for Melo to play for the Bulls but right now... I just can't see it. They really need to stop these guys from teaming up cause the NBA will really be garbage soon if this keeps happening.
Exactly, unless Melo shocks the world and declares that Chicago is his one and only destination, he is not coming to the Bulls, take that to the bank Mappy.
Mitchell,
Billups' contract expires after this season.
Counter?
Mitchell,
Deng's contract isn't that bad, if you look at the 4th year as an expiring contract. They can always use Deng and his contract as trade bait when he gets up the $14 million dollar mark.
Everybody seems to ignore that. Open your eyes people.
4 years is an eternity in NBA time, and the players themselves are not that patient, Anthony does not have 4 years left to wait to make something happen in his career. This is basically his one time shot at it.
Doug,
You are so full of sh*t.
Advantage Bulls.
Deng and Gibson provide more production, than anything the Knicks can offer.
They could give up Chandler/Galanari/Randolph with Curry and combined those guys had 14 double-doubles last year.
ADVANTAGE BULLS.
And don't discard the fact that Deng's contract is very trade-able in that 4th year when he makes $14 million.
It expires.
ADVANTAGE BULLS.
I know you like LBJ over Melo, but come on. Your arguement aren't holding any water this time.
Dude, watch your mouth. No need for that type of language here. Particularly against the blog owner.
no
schaum,
Those guys (Fernandez and Amundson) aren't meant for a trade, but for depth in case a trade happens. And Noah doesn't need to be traded to create cap space for Melo. The Bulls can pay the luxury tax to keep their own players.
I'm guessing Big Jer would do that, if they have Rose, Melo and Noah on the team.
If we have to get Rudy, then we already have lost a pick and/or a young player like JJ. Amundson is so good that nobody has signed even now after the likes of Gooden,Warrick(we saw how good these guys were)..
It is not trading Noah for cap space, it is trading Noah + giving them something for cap space in the future for Denver +1st round picks... We should try if Melo becomes available but it is just a pipe-dream. It is not the question of Jerry Reinsdorf paying...Although, I agree that Melo will want to go where he has the best chance to win even if it is a decent size market like Orlando or Portland..
schaum,
It doesn't look like the Rudy trade is happening anyway.
Amundson is a nice back-up at PF, if Gibson is part of any trade.
Who else is out there? Nobody.
schaum,
Melo is not getting traded within the same division, so you and Doug should just get that NAIVE thought out of your mind.
schaum,
And futhermore, if Melo wanted to win, why on earth would he want to be traded into a division that has the Miami Heat, Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Bobcats or Orlando Magic?
That might be a tougher division than he is in right now.
The Central or Atlantic divisions make the most sense.
I am sure that Melo is lying awake at night worrying about what division he might end up in.
That's a lot of WORDS.
You guys might want to adopt the concept, "Keep it simple."
Just a thought.
oh really.. adopt this one.. suck my dick..
you say the most stupidest shit.. melo to chicago makes no sense anymore.. really with the wy the bulls are you think there trading joakim? becuase we want to get rid of deng and he ironically plays the same position as melo you think everyone else is stupid? you say the most dumbest shit on here.. i say all that becuase every says idea with no proof of it making sense.. i brought up the melo,bosh or rudy gay to chicago idea.. me.. i got proof.. you was stuck on stupid with wade,twill and biggest cap locks words.. grow up and stop trying to act like your breaking news every second.. what do you do with your life kid? give me a better team then the ones i bring up? i remeber jus last week i said get trevor ariza and guess what he got traded outta nowhere.. i say alot because i dont stand by my computer all day waiting for a response.. i say what i gotta say an watch everyone say good idea.. you on the other hand reply to your own messages.. i wonder whos ya favorite player since you think stephen curry shouldve been picked instead of rose.. mind you there not in the same class? you want to be a gm but dont know anything about making sense.. so jump off my dick .. its the internet.. dont start shit..
Yun,
No thanks. You can let your friends do that.
I love it when people get so defensive. Calm down and try not to RAMBLE on and on and on. You aren't making any sense.
Like you don't right.
From Mr.Happy....master of not making sense....
As it's been said by many I really don't think we're going to get any more big name players unless Derrick Rose explodes to the next level. I do think it's possible this happens, but he's going to have to embrace being a scoring leader(25ppg or more) in this league. Which as I and others have said he's going to have to learn to draw contact and ocassionally innitiate contact. And also stake his claim like Wade, Kobe, Billups, and all the other guys who get 6 or more foul calls per game.
Can he do it? I don't know. It's hard to see D-Rose getting his way/being somewhat of a badass/confronting anyone, but he does have a lot of heart no doubt. Maybe with success his personal confidence will grow. People displaying fight and leadership you didn't know they could. Sometimes it happens.
If so the prestegious Scoring Leader's FTA club may await complete with such amenities as knowing you can get foul calls/scoring when the other team's momentum is getting unstoppable, late in ball games etc. It's no coincidence that guys who can J's late in games with regularity/stars know they get preferential treatment, and as superior licensed players it sure doesn't hurt your mindset/confidence when it comes to taking/hitting big shots.
If you look at all the top scorers 25 ppg and up(for their time) they are in the top fifteen in active players in FTA's(so are bigs Robinson, Malone and hack-a-bigs like Dwight Howard). #3 Kobe, #2 Iverson(technically active according to Basketball-Reference), #13 LeBron, #15 Wade, and Carmelo not far behind at #22. And of course last year's #1 Kevin Durant.
It just shows you when a guy like Chauncey Billups who averages under 20ppg(19.5), but gets 7 FTA's a game or a 6'1 guy like A.I who over a decade averaged nearly 9 FTA's per game just how much of an art form/living can be had by drawing and creating contact.
Like I said before, Derrick and Thib's need to sit down, and watch the film on guys like Chauncey, Wade, and even A.I. And not just the contact but the art of confrontation. Then Thib's needs to ask Derrick one question. Do you want to talk about being one of the best/or the best player in this league? Or do you want to start doing it?(25ppg, committment to drawing and sometimes creating contact, fighting forcefully for his place with refs, launching 300 3's). I'd say the odds are against it happening, but I wont bet against Derrick because he has shown some signs including elevated playoff performance, heart etc.
As it's been said by many I really don't think we're going to get any more big name players unless Derrick Rose explodes to the next level. I do think it's possible this happens, but he's going to have to embrace being a scoring leader(25ppg or more) in this league. Which as I and others have said he's going to have to learn to draw contact and ocassionally innitiate contact. And also stake his claim like Wade, Kobe, Billups, and all the other guys who get 6 or more foul calls per game.
Can he do it? I don't know. It's hard to see D-Rose getting his way/being somewhat of a badass/confronting anyone, but he does have a lot of heart no doubt. Maybe with success his personal confidence will grow. People displaying fight and leadership you didn't know they could. Sometimes it happens.
If so the prestegious Scoring Leader's FTA club may await complete with such amenities as knowing you can get foul calls/scoring when the other team's momentum is getting unstoppable, late in ball games etc. It's no coincidence that guys who can J's late in games with regularity/stars know they get preferential treatment, and as superior licensed players it sure doesn't hurt your mindset/confidence when it comes to taking/hitting big shots.
If you look at all the top scorers 25 ppg and up(for their time) they are in the top fifteen in active players in FTA's(so are bigs Robinson, Malone and hack-a-bigs like Dwight Howard). #3 Kobe, #2 Iverson(technically active according to Basketball-Reference), #13 LeBron, #15 Wade, and Carmelo not far behind at #22. And of course last year's #1 Kevin Durant.
It just shows you when a guy like Chauncey Billups who averages under 20ppg(19.5), but gets 7 FTA's a game or a 6'1 guy like A.I who over a decade averaged nearly 9 FTA's per game just how much of an art form/living can be had by drawing and creating contact.
Like I said before, Derrick and Thib's need to sit down, and watch the film on guys like Chauncey, Wade, and even A.I. And not just the contact but the art of confrontation. Then Thib's needs to ask Derrick one question. Do you want to talk about being one of the best/or the best player in this league? Or do you want to start doing it?(25ppg, committment to drawing and sometimes creating contact, fighting forcefully for his place with refs, launching 300 3's). I'd say the odds are against it happening, but I wont bet against Derrick because he has shown some signs including elevated playoff performance, heart etc.
RW,
Rose would be smart to model parts of his game after Billups.
I'll leave it at that.
why do keep insisting on melo? deng & noah for melo is a bad deal on both sides.. noah hasnt resigned so it wouldnt work cap wise bexause the bulls will sign him.. its bad enough dengs contract isnt wanred and whos to say noah would stay in denver? and denver wouldnt want deng..
that deal is not going to happend.. book it..
you know what a better deal than us blowing up our team?
deng & 1st for iguodala.. we need playmaking right? iggy brings that..we need the offense to go through some one else to take pressure off rose? iggy can do that..iggy is far superior than deng on defense its not even funny.. iggy is a fourth qrt guy.. how manu times has he came in the clutch? & now hes our third option?
then or before.. if melos leaving.. hpw about james johnson,cash & a 2nd for a top 10 3 point shooter and top 5 defensive player at the two guars spot..... his name aaron affalo.. and we still have options of maxing rose & noah.. melos max would be nearly noah and roses together.. deng and iggys contracts arent that off.. turner gets his chance with a off ball in deng & we get two of the top ten wing defenders in the league to go with brewer,bogans and team usa defender rose.. you need to write about roses developmenr more than melo.. rose has become a dramatically and i mean dramatically differnet player on d .. wath the games doug.. his ball denyal and on ball defense is drastically different now.. all under thibs
rose/watson
affalo/brewer
iggy/korver
boozer/taj/asik
noah/thomas/asik. the both units compliment each other at every position
FYI:
Iggy isn't on the trade block.
And Deng's contract is worse than Iggy's anyway.
By the way, Melo makes the Bulls title contenders, but Iggy does not.
are u serious? so a core of rose/melo & boozer better than rose/iguodala,boozer and noah? mind you we would have money to for our already plans with rose and noah.. we keep a draft pick...we keep taj.. and going for iggy and anthony beong availabe makes aaron affalo our best 2 guard to trade for .. theyre losing melo..we give the a wing and a pick.. hes going to new york.. end of story.. nam one player whos been rumored ro be tradd and actually was.. iggy will be.. 6ers need cash and holliday turner n iggy all need the ball.. they need rebouding & a off ball guy.. thats deng.. the knicks have a bette. trade package.. gallo,chandler.curry and a furture pick and cash.. they wont mess this one up.. they will put everything into melo.. the bulls wont.. becuase we dont need too.. iggy,affalo and keeping noah is better than just getting melo.. people forget he never got to the second round until billups.. billups is the mvp of that team dont be fooled..
Yun,
Last I checked, Melo is better than your precious Iggy.
I think any smart basketball fan knows that.
What does that say about you? Not much.
If the Bulls really want Melo would it be out of the question to trade Boozer? Just a thought. You can all now tell me how stupid I am. LOL
you guy's forget about melo he's going to NY that's a done deal we should after granger this guy is realy good and with less we can get him from indy there willing to trade!
Richypr,
How is it a done deal?
I didn't wake up this morning and hear that Melo got traded to NY or NJ.
The Bulls have as good a shot of getting Melo, if not better, than the Knicks or the Nets, given that FACT that they can put together the better trade package.
And to think that Indiana would trade their best player to a division rival is simply NAIVE. It's not happening so get it out of your mind.
deng,tai,johnson for granger and hansbrough what you think guys?
in trademachine it put us 1 plus wins and there getting 2 young players to replace foster and dunleavy
Melo goes to NYC. I like the idea of getting Granger.
Richypr,
Not happening. Larry Bird isn't trading his best player to the Bulls.
They are in the same division. It's NAIVE to think otherwise.
Actually, Iggy's contract is worse to the tune of a couple million bucks every year. Look it up.
Bigway,
Actually you are right. My bad.
I was thinking about Monta Ellis' contract for some reason.
Mr. Happy doesnt sound too happy
For someone so full of opinions and himself, you sure don't show much tolerance for other peoples opinions.
Everyone who disagrees with Mappy is full of shit.
Reminds me of those who argue that anyone who disagrees with anthing that you know who says is a racist.
The only way that Doug is full of shit, is because you keep shoveling it at him.
He clearly does not deserve this abusive language. Putting up with your normal stream of repetitive inanity is abuse enough.
Maybe, Mappy is the reason that Doug keeps trying to quit the blog.
I disagree.
It sounds like Melo might force a trade, prior to the season.
In that case, the Bulls have a clear ADVANTAGE.
Doug,
Do you have anything positive to say about Melo or would you rather talk about LBJ some more?
Carmelo CAN shoot threes...and he is more athletic than Bird was. He can score in the post, face up and he has a good jumper, isn't he 32,33% from 3pt? I think that's pretty good.
Can Carmelo, Chris Paul,or Tony Parker, and Stoudemire beat Wade Bosh and James? I say any of the combination of them... NO!!! Add on top of that the dysfunctional ownership of the Knicks and I say Carmelo would be better off in Denver. Truth be told... the best team in the east for Carmelo to contend with the Heat would be the Bulls not unless Orlando made some kind of move. Lets hope somehow Carmelo make a power move to play for the Bulls. It can be done if he wants to play for the Bulls.
That would be great, but Chicago doesn't seen to be the place to be for this group of superstars.
There is nothing on the Bulls yet which makes it attractive for Carmelo(no cap space and unproven players). We all like Rose and expect him to be a top 10 player in the league. But, he is not that right now and that top 10 player thing is an unknown. Same with Noah...we expect him to be a great Center but again he is not a stud yet. So why would Carmelo want to come to the Bulls now...maybe he might change his mind in Feb if the Bulls do well for a few months.
Plus, why do you assume he wants to come East. It is an unknown and teams like Houston have better pieces for a trade. My guess is he wants to win and as Doug said maybe he gives Denver a list of teams he wants to play for and they make a trade. I hope the Bulls are on that list.
I am sure the Knicks will be on that list and hope the Knicks do badly this season because they have some decent pieces now and an expiring contract.
Even if Carmelo does join the dysfunctional Knicks, do you really see them beating the Heat? I don't.
And i'm sorry but Houston just does not impress me and don't have championship caliber players. They are basically unproven just like the Bulls
I don't know if Knicks will beat the Heat...that's not the point. They have more decent pieces(more promising and cheap which is what matters for a team losing a superstar) than the Bulls..Randolph,Galinari,Chandler and an expiring contract on top of it. Plus, they will spend and whatever some people like to believe, D'Antoni is a more proven coach than Thibs. I just gave Houston as an example ...there is Portland, OKC, Orlando, Dallas etc... with better pieces and would love to trade for Melo.
Going to any team in the west right now would mean a defeat at the hands of the Lakers...Sorry....
And if you really think about it out side of Howard Orlando has ok players as well. They would have to give up a lot of good pieces.
And you think East is easy now with Miami, Boston and Orlando at the top..
MELO TWEET:
http://twitter.com/carmeloanthony/status/21363871471
Seems like a response to Ric Bucher's report to me.
I don't know Melo personally, but it seems to me like he isn't the kind of guy that wants this attention or wants to deal with the LBJ-type speculation all season long.
This is just a guess, but I'm thinking he wants things resolved prior to the season, regardless if he is traded or signs an extention with Denver.
This is why I sometimes try to stay away from some of these rumors cause no one really knows what these guys really want to do. All I know is the Bulls need to present a strong case to any good free agent in the future for them to consider to try to join the Bulls.
I agree that just in case he is available, the Bulls should have the contingency plan to present. I wrote this earlier that Bucher was making too much out of toasts during a wedding. It is dog days after all the FA frenzy in July for the NBA reporters... I guess.
They won't even be close to the Heat....they'll probably be closer to us.
Denver will never win a championship no time soon and Carmelo knows this. The time for him to move on is now.
Reesel,
It seems that way, but we'll have to wait and see what he does. He could go in any of several directions at this point.
Yelp, I agree Happy.
Mitchell,
They should, but it looks like they have peeked.
Their core group is mostly over 30 years of age and some of them have soon to be expired contracts.
Mitchell,
And that deal isn't better than a Chicago deal.
How does that deal help Denver exactly?
Like I said, it all depends on Carmelo and if he wants to play for the Bulls. He will be a free agent and can make a move to just about any team he wants if the team can manage to make some trades.
Agreed....we don't have anything they want in regards to a possible trade. Even our 1st round draft picks should be in the 20s. The Bobcraps pick is a gamble...
Reesel and schaum,
To both your points, this is why I want the Bulls to keep adding young (trade-able) and productive pieces to the roster. Guys like Louis Amundson and Rudy Fernandez come to mind.
I'd mention, my boy, Sam Young, but he's a keeper, if the Bulls can get him...haha.
Well, those guys will not help much in a trade...Maybe Rudy had some value but he got exposed in the playoffs plus he talks of going back to Spain. And FYI, nobody is going to give good young cheap talent so easily either. That's why the Bulls supposedly will not give up Gibson for Rudy. For Melo, you need at a min a player of impact such as Noah before his extension, expiring contract to give cap space soon(which we don't have) and few first round picks and maybe another cheap starter.
schaum,
The Rudy trade is looking bleak. The Blazers aren't getting Gibson, so unless they drop their price tag I wouldn't expect anything to happen.
schaum,
Back to your point about trading draft picks.
If the Bulls and Nuggets were to work something out for Melo, they don't have to take the Bulls draft pick this year. As in the KG trade a few years back (2007), Minnesota got two 1st Round picks from Boston in 2009, so if the Bulls were to get Rudy for a 1st Round pick next year, they could still be okay.
Just a thought.
SIDE NOTE:
For all of those who was Deng's contract is bad, think about this.
If Denver acquires Deng, Gibson and Johnson for Melo, they would be saving roughly $3 million dollars this year and roughly $5 million dollars next year.
Carmelo Anthony is do to make $17 million this year and $18.5 million next year.
Luol Deng, Taj Gibson and James Johnson are set to make $14 million this year and $15 million next year, but Denver could cut loose Johnson, in which case they would save roughly $2 million dollars.
So, that deal isn't as bad as people think it would be from a contract standpoint.
Melo comes off the books next year tho and then he walks. Deng would be Denver's problem for a few more years and he is not an elite player like Melo. Denver would rather start over(let Melo walk) and rebuild(through draft) over the next 3 years. BUT YOU DON'T build a team around Deng...sorry.
#1Bullsfan,
You are looking at it totally wrong.
Deng isn't a problem. He's part of a solution, if Denver loses Melo. I'm they want to keep Anthony, who as I said is do to make $17m this year and $18m next year. And don't discard the $65m dollar extention that is on the table. That's $20m per year.
If the Nuggets get Deng and Gibson, they make up for some of Melo's lost offensive output, plus they get added rebounding and defense.
Throw in $3m in cash as part of the deal and Denver comes away with two quality rotation players, under-contract and not going anywhere, plus they save over $10 millions dollars.
It's a good deal for them.
Having Carmelo means increased ticket sales in the regular season and playoffs to make up that extra money. Deng, Gibson and Johnson means no playoffs with a half filled arena during the regular season. If Deng had one or two years on his contract, it would have been a decent deal. With the cap probably reducing next year, nobody wants to pay 11-14 mil/year on Deng. And they need picks now in the next few years and not 4/5 years from now. And they probably want multiple first round picks..
schaum,
That's not true at all.
If the Nuggets added Deng and Gibson, they would probably be a playoff team.
Plus, Denver has always had a good attendance record, even before Melo got there.
You are completely off-base here. First of all, Deng and Gibson even with Rose, Noah got the Bulls into 8th seed in the EAST. There is not even an argument here. Plus others are doing well now in Denver(JR Smith and others etc..) because of the attention Carmelo gathers. Deng and Gibson will not do that.
If there is no Melo, there is no playoffs and no attendance.
You cannot compare stats like what you did. It is called linear comparison and everything in life is non-linear. So it is just for the books to do linear comparison.
Look, you can argue all day...we also want Melo but your sales pitch is like selling snow during winter in Alaska.
PROJECTIONS:
Pay attention.
Unlike what Doug Thonus says, PRODUCTION MATTERS.
Denver is PROJECTING out what Melo will cost them and what his PRODUCTION will be over the next 5 years. Every team does that. It's common sense.
So what are Carmelo's projections?
1 - $17 million, while scoring 26ppg and grabbing 6rpg.
2 - $18 million, while scoring 26ppg and grabbing 6rpg.
3 - $20 million, while scoring 26ppg and grabbing 6rpg.
4 - $20 million, while scoring 26ppg and grabbing 6rpg.
5 - $20 million, while scoring 26ppg and grabbing 6rpg.
* That's roughly the $ and stats he's projected out at over the next 5 seasons.
So, what are the PROJECTIONS for Deng and Gibson?
1 - $13 million, while scoring 25ppg and grabbing 15rpg
2 - $13 million, while scoring 25ppg and grabbing 15rpg
3 - $15 million, while scoring 25ppg and grabbing 15rpg
4 - $17 million, while scoring 25ppg and grabbing 15rpg
* That's roughly the $ and stats they are projected to get over the next 4 seasons.
So, clearly would be fine, if not better, from a PRODUCTION standpoint, as well as a $ perspective. Now, Carmelo Anthony is a DIFFERENCE MAKER. He can win a game by himself, so clearly Denver would be losing out on his CLUTCH and HIGH SCORING performances.
But on average, Denver wouldn't be hurt that bad, if they ended up with Deng and Gibson.
Oh sh*t....I forgot to pay attention....
Okay...(damn ADHD)...I would argue Gibson wouldn't produce that much in Denver since, if I'm not mistaken, the Nuggets have Nene, Birdman, and Martin who can all play productive minutes at PF. Why would they want Gibson again?
evil,
Martin is a free-agent, Nene is a Center and Anderson is a PF-C. They could definitely use Gibson, especially with Martin soon to be gone.
Martin "is" or "will be"?
evil,
He's injured now, but his contract expires at the end of the year. Either way, the Nuggets need more front-court depth and defense.
How do you project Gibson's stats and salary?
#1Bullsfan,
It's going by their AVERAGES.
Denver could get two guys who produce good stats, even better as a whole than Melo does, but at less money per year.
It wouldn't be a bad deal for Denver.
Of course they lose a DIFFERENCE MAKER in Melo, but it's not like there is a DIFFERENCE MAKER out there they can trade for.
Chicago, Orlando, Charlotte, Atlanta, New York, Washington and New Jersey don't have one available for trade.
Why do you agree?
If Melo decides not to sign his extension, he has all the power. He simply declares which team or teams he will accept a trade to, and which team or teams he will sign an extension with.
Denver can only trade him to those teams for what they are willing to give up for him. No one else will trade for him because he will not resign with them. the fewer teams that he designates as acceptable to less leverage that Denver has. Denver will get nothing if they let him walk next summer.
Lets say just for fun that Melo said he will only go to Chicago, New York or New Jersey. Then Denver has no real choice but to take the best offer from those three teams.
If he only has eyes for NY then NY will get him at a discount(maybe even pennies on the dollar). Denver has no choice other than to spite itself by not trading him and lose him for nothing next summer.
You are right that the Bulls are not likely to be able to put together the best offer, unless of course Denver is secretly run by Reisndorf and Paxson, thus overvaluing Deng.
of course, other than that they are identical
Wow, don't know how this got all the way down here.
The S&T that Lebron and Bosh did after they agreed to go to Miami were worth squat(future draft picks).
Gallinari and Deng are not just spare parts. Gallinari could blow up this year.
Getting one or 2 legitmate players has to be better than nothing, especially a guy like Gallinari who makes almost nothing.
Unless Denver decides to tear it down to zero if Anthony leaves, then they might value cap space above all else(Gallinari and Curry).
I say that they absolutely will trade him during the season, as soon as he makes it clear that he is not signing his extension.
But you are still right that the Bulls have almost no chance because of the money still owed to Deng.
Carmelo hit 35% of his threes over the last 3 seasons, why do you say he can't shoot threes?
That is a better deal. Good work, sir.
Logic,
Again, why would Indiana trade their best player to a division rival?
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Just like Doug's suggestion that Denver would trade Melo to Portland or OKC.
That's stupid to think that way. It's not happening.
The Bulls seem to have good trade relations (even for a division rival) with the Milwakee Bucks, Skiles loves Deng, Michael Redd's huge deal comes off the books next summer, not sure if they could make room at the 3, but if so it might work. The bioggest stummbling block would seem to be The Bucks not wanting to help the Bulls get Melo, but they already tried to help them get James with the Salmons trade. So who knows!
And I wonder how much of Melo's motivation lies in playing in the spotlight vs. only wanting to play in New York. I think he would welcome Chicago.
Melo's invoved in a classic conundrum: He wants a long term deal before the new CBA, but he doesn't want to be in denver any longer. Therefor, seems like he would agree to an extension by moving anywhere with greater exposure & a chance to win, so much so that it almost seems he would be desparate to do so, and it seems like he is really trying to push for an exit right now.
Why would Denver do it now though? Toronto knew it was going to lose Bosh, knew they were nothing more than an 8 seed last year, and still held onto Bosh. Denver can always sign and trade Melo this summer to get something.
I think this summer the Bulls could have enough to make a sign & trade, but would have to compete with NY who could ink him outright. Deng should have a great year if healthy, as this is his first off season in a while when he can train full speed. He lives for basketball and has quietly really improved his 3 ball. He has 40 % potential, just needs to start taking more, and he will get plenty of good looks with the spacing Rose & Boozer will offer him. Deng is still the same guy the majority of the GM's predicted would break out 3 years ago into all star status, and is very close to a 20/7 guy who plays great team ball. With a great season & 1 less year on his deal, its not unrealistic to think he could have some value next year. Also, the Bulls are in unique position to offer 3 straight #1's (teams cannot trade back to back 1's), they can send thier own in '11 & '13 & Charlotte's in '12. I'm not sold on Charlotte, that pick although protected should be pretty good. Throw in a great value guy like Taj who should look bigger & stronger this year in addition to having a mid range shot, and I think that trade would be appealing for Denver vs. their alternative of losing Melo for cap space in a bad free agent year.
Mr Happy knows something about Carmelo that the rest of us dont...errr um, nothing...
CN71,
I know about basketball.
People need to stop being so damn defensive and just read what I said.
It makes sense.
...mmm.
Evil, do you have another good weekend coming up? maybe you know something, hmmmmm
I would say BUSINESS was GOOD...mmm.
:)
Who let the CHILDREN out of the play pen?
Was that you Doug? Must have been.
...mmm.
Little Happy, its a good thought to get Melo, but the problem, all the crap you put together, there is no way they trade Melo for Deng and Gibson. There not that stupid.
Melo ain't comin but a man can dream, right?
Rose
Brewer/Korver
Melo
Boozer
Noah
I'm salivating just thinking about it
Doug,
Right about what?
No trade has happened yet to my knowledge.
Of course, people would rather talk about LBJ or KOBE on here, I guess.
I am glad that you mentioned talent per dollar.
Is anthony at $22 million per a better value than Deng at $13 million per.
Check out this link from Denvers local Nuggets blog,
it sounds like they think that Melo is just another overated scorer.
http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/2010/08/17/the-indian-summer-of-carmelo/
By the way has anybody asked Reinsdorf if he is willing to pay Anthony $22 million per year.
I don't see him paying that kind of money for that kind of player. So even if he is actively shopped the Bulls may not even make an offer.
Denver doesn't win a playoff series with a mopey Melo for an entire season.
He seems like the kind of guy who could implode the whole season with a bad attitude, maybe they don't even make the playoffs.
I agree with you that Denver will not want Deng, because of his contract, which is exactly what I said in my last sentence.
I have always maintained that you are your contract, you try to seperate the player from his contract. In a salary cap world, that doesn't work. Deng at Galinari's contract would have bidders lined up around the block, but he is owed $50+ million thus we cant trade him for spare parts.
He is, however, a legitimate starter in the league, I have never denied that. He is just not a #1, or #2 player on a championship team. Does that make him a spare part, probably not, but his contract makes him (highly)undesireable non the less.
Finally, I think that very early this season it will be apparent that Galinari is better than any player likely to be drafted by either cleveland or Toronto with any of the picks obtained from Miami. Galinari like Deng was a lottery pick, unlike Deng he may yet become and AllStar, so he is clearly not spare parts, especially on his rookie deal.
I am willing to bet that if Anthony does not sign his deal he will be dealt no later than the trade deadline.
Denver isn't making $20-25 million by losing in the first round, which is what happens with Mopey Melo around all season.
I could not have said it better myself. Well maybe I wouldn't say that our package sucks, only that Dengs contract actually sucks.
And, I would not include Noah in a Melo trade, and I am not the one paying him $22 million per, which it don't think he is worth.
You are 100% on point, I don't see Melo wanting to come to the Bulls, which is the only way that it could actually happen.
That seems to be the part that Mappy is missing, because he can only see what he wants, which stunningly has no relevance to what actually happens in the NBA.
Doug, are you positve that Reinsdorf would do that trade, I am not, because I am not sure he wants to give Anthony a $65 million extention.
Agreed. Unlike Galinari, Deng is a proven player, but the difference between their salaries makes Galinari much more attractive to a rebuilding team. Gibson is much more trade-able for the same reason.
I don't see anything happening soon, since Denver has no GM...