Per K.C. Johnson, the Bulls are considering a hometown boy as their backup point guard.
The Bulls have held internal discussions about adding Peoria native Shaun Livingston as a backup to Rose.
As things stand, backup point guard is the biggest hole on the Bulls roster. Put simply, there isn't one right now. There are many a candidate still out there for role - available free agent possibilities included, but are not limited to, Jason Williams, Travis Diener, Anthony Carter, Jamaal Tinsley, Carlos Arroyo, Earl Boykins, Royal Ivey, Sherman Douglas, Bobby Brown, Eddie House, Nate Robinson, and my own person favourite for the job, Keyon Dooling. A good many of them have been discussed in these parts before.
However, Shaun Livingston is one of the most interesting candidates available, for the simple reason that he was pretty damn good last year.
Livingston was drafted 4th overall in the 2004 draft by the L.A. Clippers, and he busted quite badly. This is due in no small part to an extremely serious and cringeworthy knee injury that he suffered during a game; coming down from a layup attempt, Livingston landed badly, and his leg ended up pointing the wrong way. If you've seen the clip, you'll remember what that looked like. And if you haven't seen the clip, don't.
It has been an extremely long road back from that injury. Because of its freak and severe nature, plus other reasons that we're about to go into, Shaun Livingston is one of the unluckiest players of a generation. He had also suffered a history of knee injuries even before that big freaky one. And yet despite it all, he is back.
Livingston's injury occured in February 2007. He tore two knee ligaments, damn near tore a third, dislocated his knee cap, suffered nerve damage, and broke his meniscus. It was 16 months before he was cleared to play again, and he later signed a minimum salary contract with the Miami Heat that had $350,000 of guaranteed compensation. However, because of yet another knee injury, Livingston again fell out of the NBA.
Weirdly, though, this time it was not his own injury that was his undoing. In the same summer that they signed Livingston, Miami also signed Davidson point guard Jason Richards to a training camp contract with $25,000 worth of guaranteed compensation. Despite the guaranteed money, Richards was not expected to make the team; he came to training camp for an extended look, rather than to actually compete for a spot. However, within days of camp starting, Richards tore his ACL during a practice and was ruled out for the season.
The rule regarding unguaranteed contracts is that, if a player is signed to one and is injured amid the course of team-related activities (as Livingston was), then the team must pay that player's salary until they are healthy again. (This is why former Bull Mike Wilks stayed on the Magic's roster for the whole of the 2008-09 season, even though he suffered a season ending knee injury in training camp. They were paying him anyway, so they decided that they might as well keep him around, if only to provide eye candy.) This meant that Miami, who had only planned on giving him $25,000, were now on the hook for Richards's full salary that year of $442,114. And they weren't going to get any playing time out of him to make up for it.
This would have been relatively a minor inconvenience for a big budget NBA team, were it not for the fact that the extra $442,114 also pushed the Heat over the luxury tax threshold. Someone had to be traded away to get back under it again. It could not be Richards, for he had already been waived. And so that man was Livingston. He was traded to the Memphis Grizzlies just before the contract guarantee date, and instantly waived. Once again, he was out of the league due to a knee injury. Strike two.
(Incidentally, Richards has played but a handful of minutes in his career since his injury, and has re-injured the knee twice since then. He did so again this very week, and has thus given up the fight, retiring from the game aged only 24.)
Livingston soon got back into the league when he signed a contract with the Oklahoma City Thunder for the last few games of that season. He played well, too, averaging 7.8 points and 3.3 assists on 54% shooting, putting up a PER of 13.8. It was only in 8 games, but it was nonetheless a start back on the recovery road. The Thunder signed him through the 2010 season, and were suitably impressed by Livingston's health and play that they kept him beyond their own self-imposed contract guarantee dates.
But then came another stroke of bad luck that again saw him fall out of it. Again it was due to a knee injury; again, it was due to someone else's knee injury. Livingston played 10 games and 130 minutes with the Thunder to open last season, unable to find his form of before, averaging .only 1 point and 1.4 assists on 31% shooting. The Thunder therefore decided to trade for a point guard, and subsequently acquired Eric Maynor from Utah only a few weeks into the season.
Utah's incentive to trade Maynor for nothing was the inclusion of Matt Harpring's contract in the deal. Harpring had already unofficially retired due to a knee injury, and was doing TV work for the Jazz rather than playing for them. Nevertheless, he was still a $6.5 million burden on the Jazz's cap number, an intolerable situation for a tax-threatened team that refused to pay it. They therefore included Maynor as incentive for Oklahoma City to take on Harpring's contract, saving themselves about $20 million in the process.
At the time of the trade, Oklahoma City had a full 15 man roster. They therefore needed to open up two spots to accommodate the incoming players. Mike Wilks (by now also a Thunder player) was the only player with an unguaranteed contract, so he was one of the cuts. But the other cut had to be someone with a guaranteed contract. And, as fate would have it, that player turned out to be Livingston.
Strike three.
Despite how brief his time with the Thunder was, Livingston was still earning $959,111 for his troubles. There are worse jobs out there, ones where you don't get a million dollars to not work for nine months. But it was never about that. Livingston wanted to play, and so he hooked on with the Washington Wizards. It was there that he played the best basketball of his career; in 26 games for the team, Livingston averaged 9.2 points and 4.4 assists, shooting 54% from the field and putting up a PER of 14.4. Livingston was one of the very few bright spots in an absolutely hideous season for the Wizards, and even though it was for one of the worst teams in the league, Livingston was a healthy NBA starter.
But of course, you're getting the idea by now. No matter what good he did, strike four was bound to come, and that's exactly what happened when the Wizards won the #1 overall pick in the draft lottery. By drafting John Wall 1st overall, by trading for Kirk Hinrich, and by being unable to trade Gilbert Arenas, the Wizards scheduled their every last point guard minute for the foreseeable future, and they did so without Livingston. They even opted to keep Cedric Jackson ahead of him. Livingston was again on the outskirts, an unrestricted and overlooked free agent looking for an opportunity that won't get snatched away from him just as he begins to seize it.
First it was his own knee injury. Then it was Jason Richards's knee injury. Then it was Matt Harpring's knee injury. And then it was Gilbert Arenas's team-destroying narcissism. At every turn, Shaun Livingston is finding knee injuries to be his Achilles heel. (If that makes sense.) The man needs a break, a fresh start, a stroke of good fortune with which to demonstrate the talent he actually has.
Chicago might be it.
When given the opportunity to do so, Livingston has proved his talents. He's a good pick-and-roll and open court player, who is a willing and capable passer with a tremendous height advantage for his position, and some athleticism to go with that. All of those are things the Bulls could use in their backup point guard; as things stand, Joakim Noah is our third best ball handler.
Of course, Shaun is not the perfect player. He has no three point jumpshot whatsoever, which is not ideal behind Derrick Rose, who does not provide three point range either. Livingston is also thin, which affects his ability to do much when contested around the basket, and he's also turnover prone for a pass-first player. More important is his durability; having played only 193 games in six seasons, Livingston is far from a sure thing in anyone's rotation. If the Bulls sign Livingston to play backup point guard, they'll have to sign someone else to do so too, because Shaun Livingston's next full season will be his first.
Nonetheless, Livingston is a very intriguing player, a genuine talent, and a home town boy to boot. He seems to be healthy now - at least, as healthy as he has ever been - and thus it is entirely correct that the Bulls consider him to be a valid candidate for a roster spot. If this move goes down, I heartily endorse it.
Filed under: Free Agency
Tags: Bad Times, chicago bulls, free agency, Rumours, Shaun Livingston
I would like to resign Acie Law to be perfectly honest.
Acie Law and Jerel McNeal will do just fine.
He seems like someone the cap-strapped Heat would/should be interested. Talented player potentially available on the cheap.
I have followed Shaun since his high school used to play mine. He has a ton of talent, but obviously has been struck with some pretty bad luck so far. I wouldn't mind bringing him on as a flyer, but I have to agree that my preference would be to bring back Acie Law. He has the potential to be a real spark plug off the bench and if you get another combo guard or someone like JJ Redick who can run the offense, I think you'll be fine.
Id say sign him for the min why not?
All you bull fans bring a valid point. I owuld have to agree with Utahbullsfan. If hes cheap why not! This would give us different set offense plays we can run with Redick, Rose, Law or Shaun on point guard. I can't wait till the season starts. Does anyone know how JJ did yesterday running as pointgaurd? He looks like he got into NBA form this year. I expect to the most improve bull this year. I hope coach Thibs gives him some playing time.
Agreed. Rose, Law, Livingston now that's a deep PG rotation if they can stay healthy. Pac, I think the Bulls play today in Vegas so we will see how JJ plays at PG today(if he does). He just has to keep his TOs low and he will be great this year.
Good idea, low risk high reward kind of move, I love it. Go for it, when it is for the vet min, great. We could have enough to sign Acie Law for the vet min too, or do you think Acie would get more?
Acie couldn't get much more b/c he hasn't done anything on the court yet. He had an injury last year and didn't get much playing time with us this year.
Well Law i believe is desperate to join any NBA team. So I say give him a vet min. If he performs well this season, throw him a 3 year contract. Why do I have a gut feeling that Law will do alot better than pargo last season? Pargo is a bust!
Ha! Because Pargo is a bum. He's undersized and if his 3pt shot isn't falling he has no other skill set to fall back on. Ship him back to Greece!
Quick and completely random question...is the Bobcats' first rounder in 2012 unprotected?
no lottery protected, becomes unprotected in 2016 or so
Great sign him up but don't forget about my man Flip Murry..I think he played well for us last season.. I like Acie Law too
Flip was pretty decent and was taking so many shots because there was almost nobody else who would step out and make shots. If we have Korver, Reddick etc.., Flip would be a great insurance piece during injuries.
What about Matt Bouldin? He can play the PG position from what I understand.
I'd give him a shot before making an il-advised signing of Shaun Livington.
Yea I forgot about him. We will see how he does today. He did do well for Gonzaga...just hope he isn't as bad as Morrison! LOL
I would take my chances on Allen Iverson as well...he could play point or shooting guard...he just needs to be on the right team with the right coach
I heard he wants to play bad for any team. I say we sign him for min vet pay and with a clause that if he acts up we can terminate him ASAP. but he would be a good sign but keep him on a short leash.
I agree a very short leash... he really wants to reedeem himself
I like the idea, he proved he could play when he wasnt injured, plus he's taller than Rose. I'd give him a small contract, and if not him, Acie Law is still available. Busta I think you and I are the minority here, because I think AI next to Rose would be deadly for the opposition. but no one else thinks like that.
x3 here! AI and DROSE would be sick. but AI needs to lower his pride to rose's level. Then it just may work.
AI is not a shooting guard, which is why Doug Collins drafted Turner so he could move AI back to small forward.
If you play him at shooting guard, you have a slasher who can't shoot playing shooting guard.
Finally, his contract is hideous, he actually makes a few million per year more than Deng. In 2014 AI salary will be over $17 million. If we were going to waste that kind of money at 2 guard we should have just paid Joe Johnson the max.
ROse/ AI / Deng / Boozer / Noah. That would be sick to watch!
Well somebody needs to call Gar and Pax...who got the connects..lol
Let me holler at my boy J.R. and get this deal Done!
Aight keep me posted dawg! I believe you can do it
Maybe if we start a rumor AI to Chicago it will start a buzz..lol but so serious
Rumor starts here ya'll. Ai to chicago start threads links, parades whatever... LOL
1 hour show on ESPN? AI to chicago or 76ers?
NBA Trade Rumors: Vince Carter To The Bulls If Magic Re-Sign J.J. Redick?
I don't believe that! Plus, he chokes in the clutch. Pass
The only way that makes sense for the Bulls is if it is a prelude to a deal for Melo at the trade deadline(Carter is an expiring contract) otherwise he is garbage that I want nowhere near our team.
And who or what are we supposedly trading for him, Deng?
more like a medical marijuana rumor
Just sign AI will ya and you will have a quality shooting Guard...unstable but still one of the best...lol
Quality, hahaha. Still one of the best, hahaha. Honestly, I'd almost rather have Pargo.
Or here's a novel idea! Keeping Hinrich and drafting James Anderson at #17! How's that?
you must be fucking kidding.. yeah he's finally going to figure "it" out in his mid 30s and accept the role of 4th scorer behind Luol Deng. GTFO
How am I supposed to rely upon Gar/Pax/Jerry to fill out the roster when they can't even see through a con job like D-Wade and Riley ran on them.
The guy named Reese who posts here said over and over Wade was simply obstructing are pursuit of James and other free agents and getting intel and angles to work. Whaddaya know he was right.
Miami was talking to Mike Miller on July 1st. If it wasn't for Thibodeau's preferring Chicago the stalling and conservative deliberate approach could have easily missed out on him as well. Would you ever hear the No. 1 coach in a search for a team like Boston or Miami being bandied about would be Lawrence Frank??
Well gee let's see. We did free up the cap space to comepete for two free agents by paying someone untold millions for Washington to take Kirk, and had to give them are first round pick as well. Fine, we were going for now not the future so we didn't want the pick anyway, but still all of that just to dump our much ballyhooed "glue guy." Yeah, glue guy as in we're "stuck" with him.
This whole rep thing with Vinny hanging in the wind, and Pax shoving/whatever he did with Vinny? If we played the game like other successful corporations/franchises we would have thrown the media a bone, and said, "Yeah, were behind Vinny for the remainder fo the year. End of story, and it's unfortunate these rumors get spearheaded by the media to make coaches like Vinny wonder about their jobs when we had no intentions of firing him mid season whatsoever." Now would that have been the truth. Hell no. Is it what many successful businesses would have done as the smart play form a P.R. standpoint/playing the media game? Absolutely. Yet are handling was inept, and left us vulnerable to the veiled attacks from Riley via Wade using Scottie and Michael as the touchstone for the real fuel which was the furor over Vinny's perceived dragged through the mud and accosted.
Yeah, elite ownership/business is about hardball and perceptions. It's a bitch. And sometimes you either have to play to win in a sense sell out, or you will look weak/your brand/image in the rest of that elite community will be tarnsished/weakened.
So yeah we all knew these three guys ended their contracts at the same time, worked for the same incestuous agency, and were "summitting" to the max despite Stern's B.S. proclomation, "Their will be no summitt."
Once Riley cleared the space for all three guys a smart organization would have read the writing on the wall with Wade and Bosh as bosom dining buddies. And LeBron making no comments whatsoever on the rampant rumors after SASmith reported the game was over and the three amigos were heading to South Beach aka Drunk and Whore Town. Just maybe at that point a more aggressive communications campaign would have suggested to the media somehow 'hey shouldn't we verify/ask Lebron in fairness to guage some level of what his interest is in such a trifecta in Miami with wade and Riley?' Would Lebron possibly have revealed something as to his interest/the possibility of this scenario which jibes with their plans back to 2008 olympics for the three top hook up? Very possibly. If not directly some claification from that scrutiny might have emerged.
So of course the Chicago "media" will say, "Hey we successfully dumped this overrated player with his sticky contract so of course we are beyond reproach on this botched free agency."
Only in Chicago would this be good enough/let you off the hook.
The very serious and corroborated by their past comments and history story by SAS that the three were headed to Miami should have been broached/dealt with in a clever fashion, and not preferring the ostrich with the head in the sand waiting to take one up the B side form Wade and Riley.
Now if we weren't hearing from Doug, hey they tried man, now were saving cap space, and the parties over?? So Boozer came here to watch the Bulls botch this thing, and now just give up? If we could have gotten a read on this trio/LeBron Miami puss defection then we make it known that that's what's going on indirectly/cleverly. Maybe some media scrutiny might have gave Lebron pause instead of planning what purple checked shirt he would wear to the Boys Club.
We should have at least burst the bubble, made people sweat/held them accountable for this before it happened. Things might have been different. Of course the blind, phony "source" patsy media didn't help much did it. SAS amid all the phony sources/reports was lost somewhat in the denial and cry wold syndrome fomr all the unsubstantiated blathering that journailsm has become. Most of which is leaked to NBA staked ESPN as objective?? Hardy f-ing har har.
We then either end up scoring LeBron after all or at least get some respect for being engaged , and not complete sappy ass chumps. Which is what we are. In that light, and aggressively approaching Ray Allen, Mike Miller, Matt Barnes, and Morrow the top name guards we probably get one of those guys. Not Shaun oh he's a handicapped victim from Chicago so lets sign him.
Now Doug says the Bulls are closing up shop, and keeping cap space. Jesus. If Noah and Rose with taj were a championship contender in waiting and now we've added Boozer who everyone around here is saying better then Bosh anyway. And we are just going to sign Korver(which is probably OK), but then Reddick as the starting SG?? If we were in a position of strength and not viewed as the saps we are, we'd have a very solid SG to go go along with Noah, Taj, Derrick, Miller, Asik, Deng, and probably one of the deepest quality frontcourts in the NBA.
If we get a quality SG to balance things out a Mike Miller or Ray Allen with possibly Brewer and fine Livingston as backups we can compete with anyone. Thib's D with Derrick and Joakim emerging respectively as superstar and star..? But instead we're left with a team viewed as an unwitting, unsavvy chump who got played by Wade, and now Jerry comically mutters will be better then Miami while he pulls back the purse strings. Too f-ing much. Chicago as a sports city not withstanding the Hawks once in 50 years trophy likewise the Sox are a complete joke. We lucked out with Jordan and Phil. Hope it's enough to last for the rest of our lives.
cry wolf syndrome
You are so weird man. One minute you make sense and the next you go on these long tirades that are nuts. WE COULD NOT CONTROL THE FA SITUATION!! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. Most people see that now...this has been in the works for 2 years now. No one knew that though until now. They still had to keep their options open and so they interviewed with other teams. But nothing could be more enticing then them playing together and so that's what they did. Move on! Chicago is not the only team that lost out big b/c of the move the Big 3 did...out of all the teams that were in the hunt(Clippers, Knicks, Nets, Cleveland) we faired the best b/c we had a good team already and we added an inside presence in Boozer. Get over it man! It is time to move on and focus on the future. Miami is not unbeatable its not over.
No one knew until it went down that James, Wade, and Bosh, all from the same agency, teleconferencing and having in person meetings were likely headed to Miami? Are you kidding? Wade and Bosh dining together every night taking pictures with an open seat saying someone's missing?
Why the hell would Riley gut the team down to nothing if he didn't have extremely high confidence that this was going down? Oh, Riley just went crazy man. He was just taking a desperate risk, and lucked out. Yeah. You call me weird. What's weird is how clueless we all were, and apparently you still are. But we're not multimillion dollar stewards of an NBA franchise in one of the largest urban markets in America.
Would I expect if something like this was being pulled off on Pat Riley that he would have caught on/known what was going down? You bet your ass.
Honestly when I saw Riley relentlessly slicing the team down to nothing it gave me a fearful pause inside. He knew something everyone else didn't. But if I owned the Bulls I definitely would have used everything at my disposal to get the word out that these guys were all headed to South beach or Pat Riley has lost his mind. Get the media to pounce on the fact that Riley had to know they were coming or he was committing suicide. Any number of people could have made the acusation in a bold way as to create a confrontation of sorts with the media at least questioning James and Wade if not Riley, and give these guys some pause, and some reason to respect other franchises as not just patsies. We(the Bulls) had no shot being dupes. It didn't have to go down like this.
Even if Wade still punked James into coming along with Bosh to South Beach, and make no mistake Riley does punk players, christ all his players who ever played for him turn into the biggest thug, cheap shot punks you will ever see aka the 90's Knicks, but even if they went down south they'd still have to answer somewhat to the phoniness of this whole f-ing charade. Having some semblance of justice.
You think we should just "move on" rather then pause at least, and take note of how unhealthy the media situation has become when so much of the whirlwind reality is created by ESPN "Breaking News" "scoops", communicated by a profit making enterprise which basically owns a huge stake/portion of the NBA product. Will the news be created and funneled in such a way as to encourage the most profitable outcomes ocurr?? How will the ratings be any bigger then super team Lebron/Wade playing all 82 games on national TV and battling the Lakers/Kobe in the Finals?
And you don't think there are money grubbing slobs of the highest greed caliber who control news coverage and bring in compliant type company men as reporters?? Shit. This whole thing is about as bad as the $ Trillion dollar bubble of bad debt that banking/loan slobs made off of poor people while congress and the media watched, was paid off by said banking people, and let it go down collapsing are economy irrevocably.
And with Wade and Riley pulling off this charade shouldn't give us major pause when the media is so completely enabling fo thsi farse? Now that's weird No.1 BullsDupe.
Why pause and dwell on something we can't change. The professional way Gar/Pax/Dorf handled the situation was fine. We were praised openly by even Wade himself as giving a compelling pitch. What you propose is just ludicrus! Somehow trying to derail the FA from forming there team in Miami is just vindictive and would definitely make other FA pause when thinking about coming here in the future.
What you propose is a STUPID as Dan Gilbert's tirade when he was spurned by Lebron...now know FA in their right mind will go to Cleveland and that franchise is really doomed!! If you had your way that would also be the Bulls fate!! As it stands our prospects/outlook/future is very bright. We will be competitive for years.
We we're praised by Wade?? Look #1Bullsfan - I think the name says it all. Do me a favor. Just quit replying/responding to my posts and leave me alone.
I gotta agree with most of what RoadWarrior has had to say. I was saying all along, we ain't getting shit. Thankfully we pulled in Boozer, on a reasonable contract as well.
Wade's from Chicago. He knows how the population ticks. Of course he's going to say good things about the Bulls "pitch." Of course he was trying to make it seem like decisions weren't already made. They had been, most likely years ago.
P.S. - Gilbert's response was not STUPID. If you knew anything about Cleveland, you'd have known that city has been cursed since Jim Brown retired, a long time ago. I'm sure players know about how large of a prick LeQueen is and probably are not all that turned off by Gilbert's remarks. Regardless, that city is not an attraction no matter what the owner says or does. This FA period demonstrated that CONCRETELY. Hopefully we can pry Delonte West off them when they cut him. He'd make an excellent third guard who can play either position and can also defend either position quite effectively. Too bad Bulls management doesn't like headcases (though he totally is).
Wade said he seriously considered the Bulls if Lebron and Bosh did not join him in South Beach. Why would he have to keep up the charade after the contracts were signed and it was a done deal? We were his backup plan.
Public Relations.
Although we need to let it go as you say...I have to admit that I have lost some interest and respect for the NBA. And I will keep my interest until the new CBA is hammered out and if nothing changes...then it brings the truth that this is more like a WWF rather than a basketball league..
Asik's a Bull
You make some fine points but it seems that it's all an after thought. The Bulls were not the only ones who were duped. But are you saying they should not have even talked with those guys even when they knew what Riley was doing with his team? I sense your angry and disappointment, I have mine's as well and it's all directed at Wade and David Stern, who allowed Wade to just wander around and doing the work of a Gm and owner without any tampering issues even being brough up. I dont see how a player from and organization can go out and recruit while players from other teams can't, from my understanding Wade was not a free agent until July 1, so how was he able to just tamper like he did. When Wade came out with this loyality statement I knew right then it was not wade but Riley using wade as a mouth piece to generate bad issues for Bulls who everyone was saying the right pieces to win right now. Also Wade, with this I love Chicago, I love my kids , my mom Chicago is my home yea he said all the right things but was as crooked as a country road. My thing is this now just kick their a$$e$. When the heat come to Chicago the best thing for the Bulls fans would not be to Boo but to say exactly nothing when they get announced them. Booing makes them think that we are pissed I say dont make a sound and watch their reaction
I'd like to see Redick, Law, Barnes and Brad Miller added...that would be a nice well rounded squad imo
one of deepest squads in the east for sure! #2 seed, if healthy.
How did I know Byars would get a positive scouting report from Mr. happy! jk...
This may be the year!
Dmband,
He had 6 points and two 3pt. FG's in the 1st Half.
Nobody else did anything, except Lucas. I only said he did OKAY.
WAKE UP and get off of James Johnson's lap.
I am rooting for Livingston to make it on the Bulls, at a minimum salary, it should be a no brainer.
However, because of the injury risk we almost have to sign a third PG, which means one of the 2 won't play much behind Rose.
Personally, I would be thrilled with Livingston and Law, but I think Law wants to play more than he can behind Rose.
Also, Sessions is rumored to be availabe from Minny for dirt(2nd round pick). He has 3 years at $12 million left on his contract. Maybe a little rich for a backup PG, but he always impressed when he played against us, and even with Reddick we still have the cap space to take on Sessions.
Also, Will Bynum is a restricted free agent, and Detroit has a crowded backcourt. Bynum reminds me some of sessions, not sure who is actuall better, I think that I lean toward Bynum, but he is not a guaranteed get, whereas Sessions is in a trade.
If we could get either of those guys, I would do cartwheels, but I would still like Livingston for sentimental reasons.
BUST-VILLE:
Dickey Johnson played like GARBAGE during the 1st SL game of 2010.
13 pts., 8 FOULS and 4 TURNOVERS...is CRAP.
Up until the last 2 minutes of the game he was stuck on 8 pts. Plus, he can't defend at all.
Has he had any work w/Thibs yet? He's not a lost cause yet...you almost seem like you want him to fail. Why the hate?
I say keep Deng if the RUMORS are true. Carter is not a big time player and he is getting old. If the Bulls can somehow get Barns and Reddick for a good price then I'm all for it. Ronnie Brewer is still out there and I believe he is waiting on the Bulls to see what happens with the Reddick offer. Livingston wouldn't be a bad pick up for the right price as well. Bulls need 4 more players to get under contract.
plus side for deng for carter is getting rid of deng's blistering contract. since carter's contract is only good for 1 year. We can go all in again for melo. Unless miami gets him as well. hahaha
If his contract is expiring next year than maybe...but what if we get played by Melo and he goes to NY? Then we have nothing.
here is the damn truth. all these current superstar ballers: KObe, Wade, LEbron and Melo are scared of JOrdan's shawdow. So there for no of them will ever sign here. They are too scared! We will never have a superstar beside rose. Hope we get another luck 1st round pick so we can sign a sg/superstar! hahah
The whole NBA is under jordans shawdow not just chicago so im not buying into the nobody wants to play in his shawdow its just an excuse people make
Melo has already stated that he would love to play in NY and I think no matter what the Bulls offer him the allure of NY will get him I say he is a lost cause. If he does not sign that extention you already know he is NY bound.
I doubt Carmelo comes to the Bulls thx to the EGO'S 3. Deng would probably be a good trade for Denver for Melo if the Bulls add more another player and incentives to the trade. Carter is garbage man, no way I give up Deng for him. Did you see Cater in the playoffs this past year... he has no heart and getting past his prime. Deng's contract is bad but at least he tries.
If Carmelo doesn't resign with Denver, it has already been said that Melo will go to N.Y. along with Chris Paul to join Stoudemire. These guys for the Olympic team is getting ridiculous trying to make these super teams. But I will expect for the NBA to step in and stop this crap somehow now that Pat Riley has pulled this B.S.
How can they stop it? Only if they change the CBA and add "franchise" tags to a player like in the NFL. Then there would be consequences for signing or trading for a player w/the "franchise" tag
If they don't do something to stop it then maybe this will stop the a lot of this bad basketball in the league along with the terrible players as well.
Hard cap would eliminate all of this bullshit, unless those guys were really "sacrificing" money (unlike the Three Douches in South Beach who "sacrificed" what, a million or two a year?).
For all who said, miami had no players.... now they are going to sign the mummy (illgauskas) to go along with mike miller and haslem, they already have better scrubs than the bulls, and they might still get more depressed veterans to join their bs conspiracy squad.
I wouldnt be surprised if they sign Iverson Mcgrady, Brewer and whoever else is left that has Talent. The lakers will sign Raja Bell. and the bulls are still waiting on Reddick which the Magic have already said they will match so the bulls need to get to work and beat teams to the punch before they get shut out and we have to fill our roster spots with these summer leaguers who look horrible.
Don't panic...the pieces are falling in the right place. We have one potential superstar(Rose), one potential all-star(Noah), and one bona-fide all-star(Boozer). We will be fine.
So if the magic have stated that they will match so do you think with Mller not having signed with the heat that the Bulls have stated to him wait this out and if the magic match we will give you the 19 for 3 years and a starting 2 guard position
You guys should go to youtube an check out Shaun Livingston last year....he looked really really good! Plus he is 6'7!!!! Thats awesome! He actually has a really good post game and a decent jump shot. He could slide over to the SG in some cases and he create for others. This would be a great signing by the Bulls. SIGN HIM!!!! He will be great for the Bulls.
Sherman DOuglas lol that dude has been retired lol
I would love for the roster to look like this...i think we could compete with anyone if this happened.
Rose, Livingston (6'7 playmaker), Law or Bouldin
Ronnie Brewer, Reddick
Deng, Korver, James Johnson
Boozer, Taj, Kwame Brown(cheap contract,6'10 275,gives us more size)
Noah, Brad Miller (resign), Asik
Redick is with 1 d.
Oh ya plug Morris Almond as a backup SG behind Reddick
Jordan just gave him 3.5 million per year.. crazy
haha not worth 3.5 million. go get AI for 1 million. much healther! hahah
unbelievable....Livingston could of been a big time here. What the heck are we doing....Acie Law is ok...dude is only 6'2 or something. Livingston should of been our target. Now the Bobcats have a starter for basically nothing.
Shaun Livingston had a good, not great, 19 games. He had a terrible previous 5 and a half years. It would take a miracle for him to be an NBA calibre starter next year. He never was one, even when fully healthy.
Mark Deeks....you could be right....but watching what he did last year in limited time....i wouldnt be suprised if he was the starter of the Bobcats by the end of the year next year. He's a 6'7 PG with vision....plus he is a decent defender, he has a post game, decent jump shot....should of signed him...especailly if he was going to be a backup for us. If he turned out any good, we could of traded him as well.
Livingston has absolutely no three point range. He can hit the occasional mid-range shot, but that's really not a good thing.
More importantly, if he's only going to be a backup, why would we pay him $3.5 million? And why would he come here to only be a backup when he could potentially start in Charlotte?
Yep +2 i can agreee with that.
Ive always liked him as a player...and him being 6'7 would of been great for us...but like you said why take a smaller pay check here when he could possibly start there next year. Hey i thought you said he wont be a starting caliber player??? lol
It is not beyond Charlotte to start players that are not starting calibre.
Now with Livingston off the board....id say grab another guy that can hit 3's. Need to spread the floor out as much as possible imo.
So now what...
Rose, Law?, Bouldin
Brewer?, Reddick, Almond
Deng, Korver, James Johnson
Booz,Taj
Noah, Miller?, Asik
Our bench doesnt look good at all imo we have no playmakers or scorers. Just jump shooters.
DONE DEAL:
Shaun Livingston is going to the Bobcats.
http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/18539497048
Time to bring back Acie Law.
Miller has not sign yet and is rethinking his decision as of
yesterday he is getting pressure from players and teams to not sign with Miami. You think the Bulls have something to do with that?
Now that's a great idea. That may come out of the new CBA deal
Reesel,
Says who? Paul is under contract and Stoudemire doesn't play any Defense.
The Bulls have just as good of shot, if Melo becomes, available, then anyone.
Chris Paul himself alluded to it over the weekend when he spoke at Carmelo's wedding.
What it will cost these teams to afford these 3 guys like it cost Miami means that you are paying others NBA food money to play eventually it backs up and kicks your arse in the end when the fringe players demand more for their play? I believe that if Pual and melo go to the knicks they would have a better team than Miami simply because they would have a true point guard that will pass. But the thing is this the winners in the NBA plays defense and Chicago has a better chance than Both NY and Miami to do that. We all know MikeNoD in NY cant spell defense if you gave him all the letters except the D. We also know that the heat with their current trio are not know for defense either sure Wade and Bron block shots from behind but neither have shown they can one on one do anything.
A backcourt of AI and Rose would give up a million points. literally. 1 million.
Guys we need a decent defensive 2 guard. Period.
Thank you! For a minute some people lost their minds! lol. Defense wins championships. Not shot jackers like AI and Monta Ellis and the like. We have enough stars lets add "pieces"
Shannon Brown?
He want too much.
Remember AI lead the league in steals for a few years...he plays decent defense
Steals are not really indicative of good man D. It usually means that a player can cut off lanes and anticipate passes. That will diminish as AI has aged. He's undersized at the 2, sorry.
Ah, just like Jordan.
Roadwarrior-
the bulls are not the only one's who got 'played'. For the most part, no one knew what these KIDS were going to do.
I stand behind EVERY move the Bulls made in regards to Free Agency THIS YEAR. By all accounts, their presentation was impressive and handled in a business like fashion.
The bulls did what they had to do. I would spare Gar Pax the blame on this one. I agree with a lot of what you say on here, but I think you've got the blame pointed in the wrong direction in this instance.
Just my opinion.
Agreed
proud of our front office. but looks like these 3 clowns already had their costumes already picked out. Hint the fact that lebron switch numbers from 23 to 6.
yep. altho the number change wasn't really significant since he would be able to change his number when he changed teams anyways. He just wanted to sell more jerseys than Kobe. lol. Don't see him doing that now...haha
SL UPDATE:
Nuggets 54 Bulls 31 at Halftime
THE BAD
Dickey Johnson looks like GARBAGE in the 1st half of the SL game.
He's out of control, keeps turning the ball over and can't defend a soul.
THE OKAY
Derrick Byars is hitting some 3's and John Lucas III is playing alright at PG.
Wow. This just strengthens your argument against JJ huh? LOL. Hope he can turn it around.
I'm sorry, I want to like Byars, but in the first half he did not look good other than those two three's he hit at the very beginning of the game.
I dont have an answer?
Maybe Matt Barnes....guard/forward...
I hope management realizes that he'd be a perfect fit for the roster.
Matt Barnes or Corrie Brewer should be our top choices to look at right now.
As of the first half of the first Bulls summer league game, it is apparent that James Johnson does not belong in the summer league, let alone the NBA.
The Bulls look like they don't have one guy on their summer league roster that belongs in the NBA.
First game jitters?? lol
I would hope. Any way we can trade Johnson and whatever-it-takes amount of cash for James Anderson?!?!? I'll pitch in a couple bucks to make it happen.
wow, man I was really hoping JJ comes through this year. I hope coach Thibs can mold him to a decent bench player at least this year. at least good for 6-8 points- 2-3 rebounds
PACMAN,
Dickey Johnson is a BUST. The Bulls should trade him...ASAP.
LOL, here we go. Well we can't trade him until his value goes up. It's just one game.
By the way, the SG/SF I wanted last year, SAM YOUNG, scored 19 points yesterday and played good defense.
Memphis isn't paying him any money whatsoever. So, if I were the Bulls' brass, I would be working my ARSE off to try and steal him from them.
Offer up Dickey Johnson. Maybe they will bite.
Sam had a good game and James had a bad one. It's just ONE GAME. Let's see if he improves next game.
get off sam youngs jock its just summer league it means nothin remember derrick rose had a terrible summer league and he turned out jus fine J Bayless from portland tore the summer league up at like 30 points a game and he cant even sniff the floor
I am not sure if you actually watch the NBA, but the shooting guard and small forward positions are not identical nor interchangable, As we found out with Salmons
Young is probably a lot like Salmons, he can play small forward, but would not be an effective shooting guard.
maybe they will bite yea you in the arse
Happy-
I was joking, relax. Im not a huge JJ fan...for the record.
Dmband,
Good choice. Oops...sorry to be so harsh.
The Bulls' brass should have drafted SAM YOUNG. DAMN!!!
Maybe they can swing a trade. Johnson for Brewer?
No, truth be told the Bulls should have drafted Jrue Holiday, who went one pick after JJ, but was expected to go in the lottery.
While Holiday is an erswhile PG, he and Rose have enough size that they could play together. Holiday is trending toward All=Star play and the bulls would have been set in the backcourt for the next decade.
NOw that would have been shear genious.
deng for carter- barnes for jj and draft picks?
NOOOOO!!! Deng is more valuable than Carter...he play D at least.
I think Gar/Pax did the best they could, but is that good enough? I respect the Kirk move to clear cap space, and that carried a lot of weight/respect that they were serious players. But to me can I be dissapointed that as Riley kept slicing his team that the captains at the helm couldn't cath on to what was going on, and at least do soemthing savvy through the media to expose the sham, and possibly(not likely) but possibly even disrupt or thwart it.
Is tht asking a lot? Yes. Is it unreasonable/beyond belief that someone could have been smart enough to realize what had happened? No, not IMO.
But again a lot of blame falls on the disorienting whirlwind of rumors/unsubstantiated sources presented in abundance by ESPN for you/their hype/ratings pleasure. It makes me sick that the owners of the NBA product are the by far most dominant source of NBA "news" information. Also these incestuous agencies which house/monopolize many of the very top tier players.
And again I respect everyone's views on here unless they engage in personal attacks or just repost constantly the same annoying mantra. If that's what it appears to some that I'm doing I'll have to beg to differ. I think what these players did particulalry LeBron was unprecedented and a disgarce that has somewhat changed the landscape of how teams are built. And therefore due to the moumental wake of this shift of power consolidation by these players there is much ado about something. At least in my view.
I'd be lying if I said some of my posts weren't partially venting. But I do think what I stated was relevant and reasonable.
And personal rebukes by a certain simpleton who is just so naive it is truly an annoyance to hear him keep harping repsonses to my post, and I wish he would just f-ck off.
It's also an annoyance for you to keep bringing up the same crap every other day.
I only got to watch a little of that Bulls V Denver game, but anyone who thinks James Johnson's game is going to be hanging on the perimeter pretending to be a SG driving and slashing I just don't know. Even if the Bulls want to explore this further/rule it in or out in summer league, would it kill him to earn it/some of his points banging down low. He should at least have practiced two or three moves to reliably get his shot off from mid lane and down similar to the game all the Celtic's forwards have prepared/worked on to be of value to their team. Thib's, get to it/tell him if he doesn't at least try on this aspect of his game, and just wants perimeter easy street he can forget it.
Ok maybe JJ didn't put up amazing numbers but the summer league has nothing to do with what numbers you put up. I could be mistaken but didn't Belinelli put up 37 in a summer league game and last time I checked he wasn't an all-star. Sure numbers look good but summer league is all about getting to see how the young players fit in a system. It has to do with seeing what sort of basketball decisions they make within plays. Also the turnovers are going to happen. Wall and Bledsoe put up 8 and 10 in the TO column respectively. This is because they are trying things they most likely won't do in the season. Just like JJ playing a perimeter type role. I was following the Daily Dime Live and Chuck Swirsky and they both had compliments on how JJ was playing. He's also in a lot better shape. Lets get off his back a little. I don't think he's going to be a star by any stretch of the imagination but he could be a good rotation player, which may not be the great SG the Bulls need but it doesn't hurt our team having a good rotation player.
SAM YOUNG:
How about my boy Mr. Young? He just hit a game winning 3pt shot vs. the Bucks.
Young > Johnson...stupid drafting by the Bulls' brass.
If only WE could have that player who hit a big-time summer league shot....(sigh)
Remember when Derrick Rose sucked in the summer league and Super Cool Beas kicked our ass?
Another unrelated topic.. Jeff Bower the GM of Hornets has resigned. CP3 will be upset and asking for a trade. I know we have Rose. But the Bulls need to investigate and use that extra cap space + Deng, Taj to facilitate a 3-way trade using CP3. That's the best way to get an all-star
Redick Update:
via the Chicago Tribune...
The Bulls now have eight players under contract and restricted free agent J.J. Redick has signed an offer sheet the Magic have until Friday to match. Several coaches, executives and agents said they hear the Magic will match the Bulls' front-loaded, three-year, $20 million offer.
If that happens, Ronnie Brewer is among the targets the Bulls will pursue. At his introductory news conference at the United Center, Kyle Korver said he has been texting Brewer, his former Jazz teammate.
Otis Smith, the Orlando Magic GM, has a tendency to say one thing and do another. I think the Redick signing would be good because we need to fill out the roster with shooters. Also, we should be pursuing Brewer even if we get Redick.
can the bulls just pull out of signing JJ Redick? while i like him i do think he and k korver is the same player jus taller. Drose and R Brewer would be better together. two athletic guards that can take create off the dribble. sign Matt Barnes and brad miller. we have more than jus a good team
They won't create off the dribble because defenses will collapse on them without shooters.
WE NEED 3PT SHOOTING
Man are you pissed, I understand your displeasure with the Bulls management but this trio had organized this movement during the olympics so not only did they lie to the Bulls they lied to all the teams trying to get them. How do you think the knicks feel? Do you think they feel betrayed like we do? I say let it go man and gear your frustrations to kicking the heat's a$$eS as well as every team will. Their was no luck in getting MJ, heck the Bulls stunk when they got him that was no luck, phil was not luck hey hired him as an assistant so during that era their was nothing lucky. But what I do find is this games are won on the floor and the heat have a Bullseye on them so big and such angry from teams that motivation to beat them will be at an all-time high. Remember this when the Bulls were dominating the NBA teams wanted to beat them because they were good they want to beat the heat because they think they are good. I cant wait to see teh jealously, issues between them come about when thngs go bad. Now what if they dont win the first 2 years in Miami you think that the media and fans wont be kicking up so much do do? I know Jerry said we are better but he said right now because they didn't have a full team and what do you know Mike Miller, is being pressured not to sign his contract by several players and teams
Acie can penetrate and he has some decent crossover move. Plus he turns it over less than Shaun I believe. They both would be good additions though, at the minimum of course.