If the Bulls sign Joe Johnson to a max deal this summer was a failure

I'm growing tired of listening to Sam Smith plug Johnson on the radio and in his blog.   KC Johnson recently plugged Johnson as well, saying that we might be best served locking in Johnson instead of waiting on LeBron and getting nothing. 

If Joe Johnson is the primary piece we sign this summer, then this summer was a complete failure.   This doesn't apply to a Bosh/Amare pairing with Johnson.  Then one of those guys would be the primary piece and Johnson would just be the supplemental one.

However, if Joe Johnson is the main guy, we lost big time.  

For starters, let's first dispel the notion that Johnson is worth a max contract.   That's patently ridiculous.   If he was operating on the first level max contract limiting him to around 15 million per season, I might be persuaded to say it's not that bad.   You could at least make the argument.  You'd be ignoring his age, playoff performance, and paying him for his past rather than his future, but you could make the case.

His max deal would run the Bulls 18.6 million a year.   A top 5 player is a bargain at that rate.  A guy in the 6-10 range is on a fair contract.    A guy in the 11-15 range you're getting into the overpaid range, but maybe he's worth it if he's the final piece.

Start paying guys in the 16-20 range that, and you're okay if they're on the rise and likely to continue improving, but otherwise, you'd better be ready to win immediately with this guy because it's a lot of cheddar and won't look pretty as time goes on.

You start drifting into the 20+ range, and you start dipping into the "complete idiot" zone.

So where is Johnson in the NBA?

LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Carmelo, Paul, D. Williams, Roy, Amare, Bosh, Nowitzki, Nash, Duncan, Howard, and Durant are inarguably better than Joe Johnson.   I mean, you can't even make a case for Johnson ahead of any of those guys right?

Gasol, Pierce, Garnett, Billups, Parker, Ginobili, Rose, Rondo, Boozer, Josh Smith, and Granger are all guys you could make a case for over Johnson, and there might be a couple more if you want to stretch it out there, but I probably wouldn't argue anyone else, and I'd probably take Johnson over several of the guys listed above for sure.

So say Johnson falls somewhere in that range.   He's presently, right now, somewhere between the 15th and 26th best player in the NBA.   Hey, that's a nice player, we'd all like to add that guy to our team, but not when you are paying him the fair contract value of a guy in the 6-10 range when he's on the down side of his career.

Especially when you look closer at Johnson's game.

Click here to see what you're getting into.   Take a look at another 28 year old shooting guard the Bulls added whose game and place in the NBA hierarchy were extremely similar to Johnson's at the time he joined us.

The thing is, the old adage about a guy's prime being from 28 to 32 is a bunch of crap.   A guy's prime is 26-30, maybe 25-29 is even more accurate.   Sure, they don't all turn into dust at 30-31, but the signs of decline are inevitably there.    Joe Johnson has maybe two prime years left, and on a max contract, his talent level at present is somewhere between overpaid and oh my god what the hell did we do?

Now if that were the worst of it, that'd be bad enough, but it's not.   It gets even worse.   I've just been discussing Johnson in the context of what he is overall and whether he deserves a max contract, which he doesn't.

Look at his specific fit on the Bulls:

Joe Johnson runs more isolation plays than just about any guard in the league.   His whole game is predicated on dominating the ball.  Do you want to bring in a guard who's going to dominate the ball for the next five years? 

I know what you're going to say already, "But Johnson's a good spot up shooter", do you want to pay a spot up shooter 18 million a year?   That's a bit ridiculous isn't it?    Johnson's not the kind of guy who's coming off screens to get his shots, he's not a guy who's going to help you off the ball, he's not a great up tempo player at this stage of his career either.

Joe Johnson is also not a great defender and as he ages and loses lateral quickness he'll become a greater liability.   The thing is, speed kills in the NBA, and Johnson isn't fast.   There's a reason why there aren't 6'8 SGs in the NBA as a general rule, they aren't fast enough to defend the position, and neither is Johnson.   He's a SF masquerading as a SG.

With all of his glorious height, Joe Johnson rebounds about as much as Ben Gordon which should tell you something, and in my opinion, he defends about as much as well.

Joe Johnson would help out a team that needs a dominant ball handler and play maker considerably.   He'd maximize his skills on a team like that.   The Bulls aren't that team.   If the Knicks sign Amare Stoudemire, Joe Johnson would be a great addition for them to add to Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Amare for example.   However, he's not the guy you add to a team that has what you hope is a top 2-3 PG in the NBA in the next couple of seasons.

I'm okay talking to Johnson.   Talk to him after you've tried every other avenue, and then talk to him about a 12-13 million dollar a year contract.   Otherwise, just wait it out.   It might feel worse now not getting anyone, but in two years after signing him he's either going to go down the Jalen Rose path or the Ray Allen path.

Rose declined fast enough that teams couldn't wait to get him off their team whereas Allen carried enough value to still be helpful to some franchises.   Unfortunately, Johnson's game is so on-ball dominant that the Jalen path is far more likely than him becoming a good supporting player.

In a nutshell, this is why teams who sign guys like Iverson, Marbury, McGrady, etc.. after they decline hoping to rekindle some of the magic always lose out.  Those players can't contribute as role players.   When their skills decline too much to feature in an offense, they no longer have the ability to help a team as a secondary guy because their games don't fit that role.  Johnson's probably not as bad off the ball as those three, but his game certainly isn't built for off the ball play.

In the end, it adds up to this, you do whatever you can to get Bosh or LeBron, if that fails, your next step is to do whatever you can to get Amare.   If that fails, your next step is to cautiously pursue David Lee and Carlos Boozer.   If that fails, you see if Johnson's willing to be reasonable or not, and the odds are not, since the Hawks have already thrown out the unreasonable offer.

The odds look better and better that the Bulls are going to get someone better than Johnson, let's hope so, because if it comes down to Johnson at 18 million, fear the rest of Rose's career.

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  • Hey man I understand where you are coming from concerning Johnson, but let's say he gets signed. Are you willing to give him a chance before going nuclear? It might not be as bad as you make it seem.

  • NEW LEBRON TOPIC:

    "Mike Brown out; John Calipari in for LBJ?"

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Time for yet ANOTHER LBJ TOPIC.

    http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/brown_relieved_100524.html

    How does this affect where LBJ goes?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I agree to a certain point. But a lot of them like Duncan, Garnett are at the end of their careers and Gasol, Kobe, Carmelo are not coming to the Bulls. We have to look at these things:
    1. JJ can create his own shot and shoot well. He is 29 but in 5 years, he will be 34. He might decline at the end of the contract. Hopefully, we can have an up and comer who can pick up at that time.
    2. He was the primary ball handler sometimes in Atl and he had Bibby as his PG. I think he will look better with Rose.
    3. For some people, it is tough to perform in the playoffs when they are the primary scorer.

    Joe Johnson is not our first option. But if we strike out on the top five FA(LBJ, Wade, Bosh, Nowitzki, Amare)...then who else is left? We need to make a good analysis. Do we trade Deng to get Al Jefferson..Then we are in the hole again at SF and what do we do with the capspace? Wait for Carmelo to strike out again.
    Off course, as fans we want to get him at a great deal..but we have to see what the market dictates and pay him the market price if needed whether it is a max or less than max..

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    No we trade Deng for Kevin Love and plug Johnson in at small forward, sign Anthony Morrow to gun from the 2 and draft a big to back up Noah at 17 in a big mans draft.

    This would be the back up plan if we don't land Lebron, Wade(no chance) Bosh or Dirk.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    MOVE ON.

    Let's talk about a real SG...Dwyane Wade.

    Or trading for Rudy Fernandez.

    Or trading up in the draft for Paul George, James Anderson or Xavier Henry.

    Wasting time on Joe Johnson is exactly that...a waste of time.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    HEAD COACH UPDATE:

    "Some league sources suggest Thibodeau has become the frontrunner for the Bulls job. Ex-Portland and Philadelphia coach Maurice Cheeks remains a strong candidate, while former Nets coach Lawrence Frank has slipped. The Bulls held informal talks with both Cheeks and Franks this week during the Chicago predraft camp."

    via the DAILYHERALD

    http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/4108

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I'm OK with that. Have the Bulls ever interviewed Thibodeau? Before they got Vinny?

  • In reply to Dileg:

    RobD,

    Not that I'm aware of.

    I think they are hoping Boston wins this series quick, so they can set something up with Mr. Thibodeau.

    That being said, I still think Maurice Cheeks will be their guy.

  • In reply to Dileg:

    co-sign Doug! Anything but Joe Johnson at the max. You make quite the good argument; I hope Sam Smith, KC Johnson, and the Bulls brass read it. The only thing I'd add is that we would have 2 "JJ"'s on our team and that could get confusing.

  • In reply to Dileg:

    By the way, what is Colin Cowherd smoking these days?

    I just heard him say that he could make an arguement for RAJON RONDO to be considered the 3rd best player in the NBA.

    Get off the crack, Colin. He's surrounded by three All-Stars.

    That's why his numbers are so good.

  • In reply to Dileg:

    Joe Johnson is a really good player...averaged like 24-25ppg this year....THAT being said, that would still be a failure if he was the only guy we signed this year. We should of just kept Ben Gordon and John Salmons if that were the case. Plus, just adding Joe Johnson to this team would still just make us a better then average team. The Goal here is to win a championship right!? Adding Joe Johnson would not help us win a championship. If you get Joe Johnson and then made a trade to bring in a bigman....THEN thats a different story.

    Right now the Bulls are in the best position they can possibly be in. If LeBron sticks to his word about JUST WANTING TO WIN...the Bulls are the clear favorites to land him. So now its up to our front office...All the pieces are in place, get LeBron to sign the dotted line and your life will be a lot easy for possibly the next decade lol

  • In reply to Dileg:

    PRIORITIES:

    A.) Get a Head Coach

    #1.) Maurice Cheeks #2.) Sam Mitchell #3.) Tom Thibodeau

    B.) Draft a Shooting Guard

    #1.) Paul George #2.) James Anderson #3.) Quincy Pondexter

    * Try and use Kirk Hinrich to move up in the draft (Indiana #10)

    C.) Sign a Power Forward

    #1.) Chris Bosh #2.) David Lee #3.) Amar'e Stoudemire

    * I still think dumping Hinirich to Indiana for expirings could help a S&T for Bosh.

    D.) Get another Shooting Guard (via free-agency or trade)

    #1.) Dwyane Wade #2.) Kelenna Azubuike #3.) Rudy Fernandez

    * Wade can only come here, if Hinrich is trade away.

    That's what needs to be done.

  • In reply to Dileg:

    Rondo IS NOT the 3rd best player in the NBA lol He has 3 hall of famers playing with him right now lol Im not saying Rondo is a bad player because he isnt, he is really good but not that good...come on now lol

    I like that comment above about Sam Smith lol I havent listened to that guy for about 2-3 years now...I really dont think he knows whats going on lol Im suprised the Bulls have him writing on there website.

  • In reply to Dileg:

    I just explained this type of argument in an email to both Sam and KC asking them how this would not result in total failure given all of JJ's shortcomings...defense, age, being an iso player, poor rebounding, not getting to the line, how similar this he is to Rose in 01 and I mentioned the fact signing Johnson to a max or near max would crush or cap flexibility and place the ceiling well below title contender.

    I encourage all of you to ask the same question maybe then we can get an answer from the two of them because honestly it's near indefensible and I would love to hear what they have to say when directly confronted on their lunacy.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Doug, wait a minute now. So you're saying, you don't like Joe Johnson??

    I just think it's funny that you keep reiterating about signing anyone over 31 to a long term deal is fundamentally the road to knowhere, but yet excuse the "conventional wisdom" on the Ben Wallace fiasco when his numbers were in obvious decline. If you can continue on the Joe Johnson bent I guess I can keep on the Ben Wallace thing. (I'm just giving you a hard time.)

    I just don't think there are too many Bulls fans who don't already think Joe Johnson would be a typical Chicago(Milton Bradley, Ben Wallace etc) second rate signing. His free throw attempts for an impact player are a joke(three something per game last year). And he jacks up a ton of threes 444 two years ago and 350 this season at 36.9%. That's why two of the last three years his overall field goals were at 43%. His rebounding average: in the mid to low 4's the last six years. But yet we suspect a cheap/conservative/non-dynamic/owner meddling franchise like the Bulls have been the last ten years will do just that. And Sam Smith working for the Bulls/Bulls.com advocating just that?? Amazing.

    So yes, there is no doubt we do not want Joe Johnson as you said unless maybe he's a second piece.

    My question is though do you really think LeBron will sign with a team like the Bulls with just D-Rose as the other scorer/all-star as opposed to a N.Y. or Miami etc. if they can bring a second scorer on board to pair with Wade for example?

    You've bascially said that any sign and trade would just be us "dumping our garbage," and is not going to happen. Unless I'm mistaken the last two years we were a playoff team with Taj Gibson as an all-rookie team member, Luol Deng played in 71 games averaging 17.6 ppg on 46% shooting with 7, count em' 7, rebounds a game.

    Doug, this is not garbage. Sure if another team wants to swap stars such as a Bynum(seasons 46, 35, 50, and 65 games played do to injury), or Dirk for Bosh or even a Jefferson for Bosh, but is that really what usually happends when a tream is forced to trade a star payer/tries to get value back?

    If Gar Forman is a competent to fairly good G.M. in the trade/negotiations aspect then the Bulls have a very real chance of a sign and trade for Bosh(or possibly Boozer/Amare if they too are set on leaving their teams).

    I'm still surprised that with the Turkoglu situation, and how bad that went for them entering into their own long term marriage how you dismiss that Toronto if they are losing Bosh anyway might welcome swapping him for a young talented PF/Taj and a good SF in Luol Deng in the process. If we can acquire an all-star it will attract Lebron to play with D-Rose. That has to be the goal. Period.

    And there's now way an self-respecting fan is just going to give the Bull's management a pass, and say it was just impossible to get LeBron/a pipe dream. Honestly with Gar repeating the last coaching hire's failed philosophy of, "we're not going to be put in a box." Really, for Reinsdorf's meddling and the Bulls vascillating I wish they'd all get put in a box, and close the lid permanently.

    Be decisive. You should have already known who your man was if you were getting somone with a track record/a name guy. Unless you're going after someone who's still coaching like Phil(which is a joke/he's not comiong back here), sit down with the coach, and f-ing hire him. If it's Thibedau I think the wasted time when the Hornets have been involved, and want a second interview, not good. That's another aspect, being decisive on a name coach that will make the tenor one of dynamic inevitablity which helps in trades and helps attract the biggest stars i.e LeBron(it sure doesn't seem like wade is leaving Miami, and he does have an injury history). No pass for the Bulls. No settling for second best(city). No excuses. He likes Derrick Rose. Kobe didn't give a crap about Magic's five championships(I knwo they didn't have to lure him), but I'm just saying that whole living up to Michael's legacy is a red herring for competitors and naysayers who don't want LeBron coming here.

    Two words Gar/Pax/Dorf: Get em'.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    The Bulls trading and acquiring draft picks, a real possibility from teams like Atlanta(cash strapped) and OKC(overloaded) would probably have to be part of the dynamic/making the pieces/deal sweetend in a major way as the final component of Toronto and Chicago getting it done. Again, this deal can get done.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    Atlanta desperately needs a point guard. Maybe we can swing Hinrich.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    The Hawks have Mike Bibby for two more years and Jeff Teague waiting to take over the spot. I don't think they'll have much interest in Hinrich's ugly contract.

  • In reply to JimmyBulls:

    Living in Atlanta, I can promise you Hawks fans want to see Bibby as far away from Phillips Arena as possible.

  • In reply to JimmyBulls:

    Agreed JJ at $12M/yr would be fine, but not over $14M/yr. He is a option D or lower at this point after we work the phones and if we strike out with the higher profile team changing guys.

  • In reply to JimmyBulls:

    Doug,
    This is going to be somewhat of a stupid question, but have you by chance spoken with Sam Smith or KC Johnson to get clarification on their Joe Johnson stance? Smith in particular appears highly risk adverse and I wonder how much of that is 2000 residual. As you've shown many times, it's almost impossible to argue that Johnson is worth that type of contract.

  • In reply to JimmyBulls:

    Hinrich's contract really isn't that bad anymore, if you make the assumption last year was an anomaly due to bad fit, and he'll return to previous form.

  • In reply to JimmyBulls:

    Ya i dont even read his articles anymore...have you seen some of those stupid videos he makes on Bulls.com lol They are terrible!

  • In reply to JimmyBulls:

    He is just throwing out ideas on the web as it easier to write compared to a typewriter.
    And don't discount what Doug said that he is probably being conservative after seeing the Bulls flame out in 2000 with all the cap space. I know Rose, Noah are there now but Miami has Wade and there is a good chance that the Bulls might strike out on all the top FAs.

  • In reply to MarkNorman:

    ben gordon's stats are better than johnson's across the board especially if you look at just playoff games. If we let gordon walk for 2010, then signed johnson for 18 million, we are run by retards.

    really they sells us lebron, and we get johnson? really?

    hinrich is on a terrible contract, but johnson is on a worse one. whatever happened to lebron, bosh and morrow?

  • While I agree Johnson isn't in the top 15, that doesn't seem to be how he's generally regarded. He got a MVP vote, something 15 guys did, and he was on the third team all-NBA.

  • Forget Joe Johnson.

    Trade up in the Draft (Hinrich to Indiana) and take George, Anderson or Henry.

    Or try and send #17 (and maybe James Johnson) to Portland for Rudy Fernandez.

    * Both those ideas are better than wasting MAX money on a 29yr. old Joe Johnson who isn't a WINNER and seems to have a bit of an ATTITUDE problem.

  • YOUNG BULLS' CORE:

    All it's missing is a young SG.

    PG - Rose (21 yrs. old)
    SG - ?
    SF - Deng (25 yrs. old)
    PF - Gibson (25 yrs. old)
    C - Noah (25 yrs. old)

    All those young SG's in the draft are 20-22 years old. Rudy Fernandez is 25 years old I believe. Even if they finally and appropriately added Derrick Byars, he is only 26 years old.

    Forget Joe Johnson and go after Chris Bosh, which could lead to Dwyane Wade coming home.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Deng and Gibson are not the core of a champianship team, and I really doubt that Deng is actually only 25.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Alright sounds good! KC Johnson did a pretty good article on him too! Im starting to like him.

  • Josh Smith on that list?? That's a bit of a stretch.

  • If the Bulls signed Joe Johnson it would be a absolute team building train wreck. The Bulls main focus should be finding Rose a partner in the two man game, and finally solving the team's scoring problem at the power forward position. There are three guys that should be on the Bulls free agent(realistically). The list should be Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, and David Lee. Personally, I think they should stay away for Amare because he'll need to get his knee redone in the next 2-3 years. You just can't have him on the books with that hovering over your franchise.

    If Lebron or Wade want to play for the Bulls, I think you have to get it done, and build the team from that point. But that's because those two guys are generation defining basketball players. I like Johnson as a player, but it's silly to think he's a serious option for this Bulls team. The shooting guard position going forward should be very simple. The Bulls should look to sign cheap three point shooters that will help enhance the team

  • Doug,

    It goes back to the BATMAN and ROBIN debate involving Rose.

    If Rose is their BATMAN, then Bosh should be his ROBIN.

    If Rose is a ROBIN, then Wade, LBJ or Melo (2011) should be his BATMAN.

    Like you, I don't think Joe Johnson is the answer or worth a MAX contract. I would rather see them land a SG in the draft by trading up or make an attempt to get Rudy Fernandez via a trade or go after one of the Golden State guards, Anthony Morrow or Kelenna Azubuike.

    This summer will be a FAILURE, if Joe Johnson comes to the Bulls.

  • 1. I don't think Sam has said JJ is the first choice but he was trying to say we need to get somebody for the money.
    2. Rudy Fernandez or these draft picks which Mr.Happy is proposing is not worth it unless you have a LeBron/Bosh in the fold already. Rudy might play well in a few regular season games. JJ failed in the playoffs but he was the 1st option on the team. I think most of us(except Mr.Happy) feel the same. He is not the 1st choice or option as a player but he can be 3rd best player. I don't care about the contract if the Bulls have to pay(it's not my money).

  • joe johnson is a bigger risk that holding onto the cap room.

  • even taking on bad contracts and draft picks seems more appealing than joe johnson.

  • THE "THEME" OF THE SUMMER:

    "Bosh leads to...(fill in the blank."

    Getting Chris Bosh gives the Bulls' management other options to improve the roster.

    #1.) With a great sign-and-trade, they could have enough $ to get WADE, LBJ or MELO (2011).

    #2.) They could end up making a trade for Rudy Fernandez.

    #3.) They could end up signing Anthony Morrow away from Golden State.

    #4.) They could end up trading for Kelenna Azubuike or signing him away from G.S. in 2011.

    * That doesn't even include the possibility of drafting a top SG (George, Anderson or Henry).

    When it's all said and done, I would love to see Bosh and Wade on the Chicago Bulls.

    All those plans are better than getting Joe Johnson via free-agency.

  • There are 2 types of risk at play. Over paying for Joe Johnson is clearly financial risk. Passing on the lower players while waiting on the Lebron / Bosh / Wade group, runs the risk of missing out on everyone. I believe Sam Smith is conservative in the sense that he would rather go for a lower quality option that he's sure they could sign rather than be left with no one.

    I think most of us agree with you that Johnson on a max deal is just stupid. I'm just trying to find out if anyone has explained why it is to Sam Smith.

  • They like JJ because they both dont know much about BBall lol Clearly adding Joe Johnson would make us a better team but the whole reason why we play the game is to win a championship. Joe Johnson wont help win us a championship. He will get you to the 2nd round, maybe 3rd...but not a title. You go bigman before you go Joe Johnson...i would possibly even wait til next year when Durant and Melo are free agents before i think about Joe Johnson. Let him go to New York...they can overspend for him.

  • Hey Doug...you should do a article on Thibideou. He could really end up being a front runner for our job. LeBron probably wouldnt mind playing for him either....afterall he is the one that help stop LeBron in the 2nd round. Plus, the Bulls and Celtics have some similar players defensively. If Thibideou came here....we might end up being the best defensive team in the league....PLUS i bet he might have a chance to win the Coach of the Year Award...because we would dramatical improve.

    Rose and Rondo...Thib could deff. help Rose become a better defender.

    LeBron (if signed) and Allen....LeBron is already a better defender by far

    Deng and Peirce....i think i would give this 1 to Deng slightly.

    Noah and Garnett...Garnett is better, but Noah isnt far off...Taj could also fit into this catorgory. Noah and Taj both have great length to be in a defensive scheme like what Thibideou runs.

    Now we would just need some beef inside to play the Perkins part. Pryzbilla, Hayward, Daniel Orton!??!...somebody big. Coach Thibideou would probably really push for it too. Thibideou could end up being a really good choice for us.

  • The reason I am concerned about money is there is no use of spending or saving it for unproven or Charlie Villenueva kind of players. Basically, there should not be any talk of not going over the cap or worrying about tax after all the money the Bulls have made. For all his faults, Joe Johnson is probably one of the top 30/35 players atleast for 3/4 years. If we are striking out on others, we need to get him to have a chance with Rose. All that said, I agree that if the only big FA we are adding is JJ, then we are second round fodder unless Rose becomes a superstar.

  • You contend that the Bulls will essentially be capped out starting next year regardless of what they do this summer due to Noah and Rose.

    I don't necessarily agree, but if this is so then it makes for more of a case to sign Johnson as a last resort since you won't have an opportunity to pursue top flight free agents in the future.

    The and overpaid Johnson is better than nothing theory. Pretty much Sam Smith's theory, although he adds the a bird in the hand is better than one in the bush to his argument.

    I think that the Bulls can remain in the free agent game until they have to re-up Rose, using Hinrich and Dengs contracts.

    Thus I would not want Johnson at anywhere near the max, I might however, trade him straight up for Deng.

  • Just playing devils advocate, but third team all NBA by definition means you are one of the top 15 players in the NBA and one of the top 6 guards.

    This isn't one mans opinion, but 130 guys who cover the game for a living.

    An argument can easily be made that he is currently and has been for a few years one of the top 15 players, something that the Bulls have not even sniffed since Jordan left.

    This still doesn't make him a primary target for this offseason or worth a max, and you are correct he is likely to regress in the near term future.

    However, some of your dislike of Johnson seems to be bordering on hatred and some kind of derangement syndrome.

    Comparing his defense to Gordon's is patently ludicrous, unless Johnson has gone blind and become a quadraplegic since the playoffs ended.

    In fact much of your dislike of Johnson seems to be a result of your investment in defending Gordon, who might make 3rd team all U-Conn, woman's team included.

  • You mean even Mr Happy the self proclaimed smartest man in NCAA history knows that the Bulls need a coach, a power forward, and a shooting guard who can shoot(and isn't a midget).

    Wow, what an earth shattering revelation.

  • I do agree with you that Sam Smith is getting really annoying with the Joe Johnson bandwagon.

    Is it me, or does he seem be turning into the daffy old man.

  • The day Reinsdorf pays the luxury tax is the day hot snow falls up.

    But of course if that day were to come I'll take Johnson but even for someone dreaming about getting Bron, Reinsdorf paying the luxury tax seems far fetched.

  • So the Bulls last marathon coaching "search"/Insultathon(D'Antoni/Collins) doesn't set the record for vascillating and indecision? And this makes them attractive trading partners/respected by other franchises and coaching candidates? So not talking to any candidates even though you knew for months you were going to have an opening is perfectly fine in your book? Well it isn't in mine. They should know at least four or five guys that they have interest in. Surely all those guys are not currently in the playoffs. And The Hornets had no trouble interviewing Thibedau.

    I know you're not a company man, but this sounds like a bunch of excsuses to me. Irrelevant? Doug, seriously.

    As for Deng he'd cost $8 Mill more over the course of his career then Turkoglu which the relationship did exceedingly poorly on the heels of a long term contract/committment.

    So acquiring a couple of picks/young talented players Toronto wants, and then they get them at a relatively low price the first two years, and that couldn't mitigate a fair amount of that $8 Mil? Say move Deng in two or three as an attractive expiring depending on the new CBA. Surely there are possibilities Doug.

    I swear you really believe a record of indecisiveness and ineptitude being erased by decisive action doesn't matter? I think you're kidding yourself. And with all the variables that could be in play let's say a Pat Riley had the Bulls roster including Deng and the ability to acquire picks, and you think he has no chance if Bosh is his man?

    I don't know man. So absolutist in your negativity dude at such an important crossroads of the franchise. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

  • Well I find it easier to compare by position than overall, so I'd make the question is his top 3 at his position. I'd have Wade, Kobe, Manu & Roy ahead of him without even having to think about it. After that it gets tricky, perhaps Ray Allen is ahead of him because he actually shows up for the playoffs? Talking next year, I wouldn't be surprised if Stephen Curry is better than him.

    I'm just saying he's been all-NBA 3rd team two years in a row so although I don't think he's that good, clearly other people do.

  • 1) Cowherd is a moron (and not just in this instance), Rondo isn't anywhere near the top 3 or 5 or probably ten, but somewhere in the hyperbole rests the point that he's really good and maybe the best player on that team.

    2) I'm kinda tired hearing about how Joe Johnson is the biggest mistake in the world waiting to happen. We get it already.

    3) Even if the Bulls "strike out," and the chances of total strikeout are pretty low in my estimation, the Bulls still have Rose and Noah and will have the opportunity to spend money to bring in some useful young role players, and thus will continue to grow into one of the upper tier teams in the east. Oh, the humanity.

  • Really? We sign JJ we're still nowhere near a title team, we've blown our space, and we'd have no hope of trading him or of having cap space for ages. I just don't see how JJ allows us to make a next move.

  • FYI:

    This is who PAUL GEORGE compared himself to after working out for the Milwaukee Bucks.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    A player self comparison doesn't mean much. Check out what Chad Ford said about Whiteside:

    "A number of teams reported to me that their interviews with Whiteside were rocky. I can understand why. In the 15 minutes or so I spent with him one-on-one he projected a confidence that bordered on na

  • In case people missed it earlier, Paul George in #1 on my Bulls' draft board.

    It seems like someone on Youtube feels the same way.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx6iJjIrjAM

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    He looks okay. He plays kinda stiff and upright. He doesn't have fluid motion to his game and his release is slow for a 2 guard. I'd rather have James Anderson. Then it's a toss up between George and Henry. Personally, I'd include this pick in a sign and trade.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I didn't read all 73 comments before me, but I'd put Rose ahead of Johnson as well. I agree, what did he do when it mattered in the playoffs? If we don't get one of the big 4, I include Amare, then we failed.

  • In reply to BMerg:

    What do you mean what did he do? C'mon now. First, he practically conceded defeat to the Magic after the 1st or 2nd game of the series. Then he said the home fans don't matter. All the while being outplayed by his backup on the court. Max money, here he comes!!!

    If Joe Johnson is the key player signed, the Bulls lose a fan until Gar and Pax are gone.

  • Joe Johnson would be a nice pick up if The Bulls can sign Lebron and things did not go through with Bosh. The Bulls would have a huge starting line up and Joe is no means past his prime. I feel that with a better coach Joe could be a big pick up for the Bulls.

  • Really? Such an emotional/admonishment over incorrect grammar?

    That's what gets you perturbed Myron? My poor use of the english language that you couldn't understand, and not the content? What a phony. If you disagree with what I've said just say so, and make your counterpoints Mrs. Manners.

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