Hello Mr. Colangelo, this is _____ and here's our best offer

One of the biggest dominoes in 2010 FA is Chris Bosh, not just due to his own ability, but in how he lands could effect where LeBron James lands.   It could also be argued that where LeBron lands effects where Bosh lands depending on whether you are a chicken or egg guy.

That being said, as of what we know now, Toronto has some power over his destination.  They have a list of teams to work with.   Now it could be that the list will be narrowed down as FA approaches.   Bosh may have given them the list simply so they can start figuring out what packages of players to look for and do some scouting in advance, but may narrow down his choices at some other point.

Or, the possibility exists that he's giving Toronto some control over his destination in order to get that 6th year.  So with the possibility of the latter here, let's play a game of "What's your best offer!".

So let's look at the assets these teams have for a sign and trade:

The New York Knicks:
Danilo Galinari, Wilson Chandler, Toney Douglas, Eddy Curry, a 2013 1st, 2015 1st

On first glance, you're thinking what?   Eddy Curry an asset?   He is if you take back Hedo Turkoglu's nasty contract as part of the trade.   Toronto would probably love the do-over on that one.  

New York needs to be careful though.   Even if they land Bosh, it's going to be tough to land LeBron if they trade all of that, and the team is literally Turkoglu, Bosh, LeBron, with their next 1st rounder coming in 2014 and having to add 9 guys at the veteran minimum.

I doubt LeBron or Bosh want to sign up for that.   From a reasonable perspective, I think they'd be willing to part with Curry and take on Turkoglu (this doesn't hurt them at all really), and maybe offer up a future pick + Chandler, Douglas or Galinari.

They're in a tough bind, because if it comes down to a bidding war, they can't really afford to give up much talent.   Even with LeBron and Bosh, if they have no one else at all, the Knicks will have a hard time of it.   Turkoglu for Curry is probably their most attractive piece in the trade.  I'm not sure if they offer out Galinari if Bosh/LeBron would still be willing to go to a roster that empty.

The Miami Heat:
Mario Chalmers, Michael Beasley, and a truck load of 1sts (2010, 2011, 2013, 2015 + Toronto 1st (lotto protected through 2014))

The Raptors reportedly don't want Beasley, and his value has been very low.  Rumor has it that he was only fetching expiring contracts at the trade deadline last year.  His salary actually isn't that low because he was picked so high.  He may not really even be worth his contract. 

Chalmers is an okay player, but he clearly doesn't have much ceiling to his game and is probably no more than a 7th man.  You'd take him back and be happy to have him as a throw in, but he's hardly a centerpiece.   The Raps could get their own draft pick back which would be nice, and maybe Miami sells the farm on it's own draft picks, but they'd better hope Beasley pans out then.

The Chicago Bulls
Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, James Johnson, and a truck load of 1sts (2010, 2011, 2013, 2015, chralotte 1st), and certainly Hinrich/Deng though it's a stretch to call them assets.

The Bulls have reportedly made Noah off limits in any kind of trade, and I don't blame them for saying that.  Now if push comes to shove, and LeBron is coming here if we get Bosh, and we're holding Noah back from getting Bosh then I think that restriction goes away. 

That being said, the Bulls could reasonably offer up Gibson, Johnson, and the Charlotte pick (which has the highest probability of being valuable of any pick Toronto could get back from any of the contenders here) as well as a couple of their own picks. 

From the Bulls perspective, the primary problem is that if they want to lure James, they need to send Hinrich or Deng somewhere as part of the trade.  That probably adds negative value for Toronto, so they then need to overcompensate with something else, or send something extra to another team to compensate for being the third team helping out.

Hinrich + Johnson + Gibson + charlotte 1st + whomever they take in the 2010 draft is probably around what you'd expect to go out int his type of scenario though whether all those pieces go to Toronto is up for debate.

The LA Lakers
Andrew Bynum, and some 1sts (2011, 2013, 2015)

Bynum's game fits perfectly with Bargnani if he's healthy and proves that he's good and not just good because he's playing with two super elite offensive players.  However, that's a lot of ifs for Toronto to take on, and his contract isn't exactly a special bargain either as he's compensated quite well. 

He's the best player when healthy and also the best fit, so he'd carry a lot of value.  the Lakers picks probably add very little value to the equation here because they're a lock to be one of the top 3 teams in the league.

So who can make the best offer if Toronto really has a say?

It depends on what they want:
LA offers the most talent, but the worst financials.
NY offers the least talent, but the best financials.
Chicago's offer depends so much on whether they try to force Toronto to take Hinrich/Deng or find a third team.
Miami's offer is basically crap unless Toronto likes Beasley which rumors say they do not. 

CHICAGO TRIBUNE VIDEO

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  • First and foremost Joakim Noah isn't going anywhere. So leave him out of the discussion.

    Secondly, you have to put Omer Asik in the discussion. He's obviously a Center, which Toronto is looking for, and don't disguard his Turkish relationship with Hedo Turkoglu.

    The Chicago Bulls CLEARLY have the best parts to package for Chris Bosh.

    #1.) Taj Gibson...he's gone for sure in a package for Chris Bosh.
    #2.) Omer Askik...he's gone for sure in a package for Chris Bosh.
    #3.) Charlotte's #1 in 2012...I have to believe that pick would be going to Toronto.

    Now, the question is would Toronto want Kirk Hinrich or Luol Deng?

    They could.

    I don't think they are all that happy with Jose Calderon, so Hinrich could be in play. As for Deng, Turkoglu didn't have his best year last season, but Deng with his injury history and HUGE contract is probably not going to Toronto.

    I have said this before, but I will say it again. If I were John Paxson and/or Gar Forman I would be gaging Toronto's interest in Kirk Hinrich. If they would rather not have his contract, then the Bulls need to go swing a deal for some expiring contracts.

    I still think INDIANA is the best place for Kirk Hinrich to be traded, given their PG problems at the moment. I would think the Bulls could get back Jeff Foster and another throw-in, which could be Solomon Jones.

    The ONLY reason for Bosh not to be in a Bulls' uniform next year is if he stays in Toronto.

    Paxson and Forman need to get this deal done!!!

  • I'm not sure if this makes me a chicken guy or an egg guy, but didn't Ford report that Bosh wants to see what happens with LeBron before he makes a decision? If so, the Lebron domino falling could expand or (more likely) trim Bosh's list of acceptable destinations.

    Anyway, in the end I think Toronto will demand that the Bulls include Noah in a sign and trade for Bosh. I love Noah, but I think he's at the peak of his value around the league right now - similar to how Deng was so valuable during the Kobe rumors. Bosh is too special of a player to miss out on.

    While Noah and Boozer is probably better than Bosh alone down low, we can't assume that we'll get a legit PF if Bosh goes to LA. If we get a chance at Bosh, we should take him.

  • I just can't see Toronto taking on Deng or Kirk. I'm not sure where we can offload them to, Kirk with two years seems movable, but the two logical destinations with the expirings and a need at PG seem to be the Lakers or the Knicks, both of which aren't likely to want to help us get Bosh given they're both on his list.

    I think we're a shot if Bosh is our only signing, but if we're looking to add Bosh and LeBron, the only way we do it is if Bosh demands the Bulls and only the Bulls.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    IF we land Lebron first, he just might do so.

    If he is ready to take a Bulls 5 year deal, he calls Torontos bluff, so to speak and they have to take what The Bulls offer(no Noah), and maybe they take Deng(a bird in the hand).

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    I find it interesting that you are an ardent Deng supporter yet you consistently refer to Deng as an albatross in trade scenarios.

    Looking at everything that you proposed, an decent argument could be made that Deng and even Hinrich are the most accomplished NBA players listed, despite thier contracts.

    Bynum has the most upside, and is the guy that I would want if I were Toronto, but he makes even more than Deng, so with his injury history, he is a bigger risk than Deng. However, there is always a perceived premium on big guys.

    If the Knicks were to land Lebron and Bosh, where exactly would Turkoglu play. He is a 3, and situational 4 at best. Same with Galinari if he stays. I can't believe that the Knicks would blow all their cap space for the next 4 years on Turky. For Toronto, getting rid of him might be the most attractive trade option.

    I just can't see a Bulls S&T that doesn't involve Deng.

    Finally, I don't beleive that this will be Toronto's choice to make. At some point Bosh will make up his mind and pick a team, maybe a offer a second choice, but he will definately have a strong preference, and that team will be in the drivers seat not Toronto.

    There is no way he is letting Toronto make the choice for him, if he did that would make me wonder about him even more than I already do.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    The best option for the Bulls is to sign and trade for Al Jefferson during the draft using any of Deng/Hinrich/Taj and picks. Then during the FA period, swap Jefferson for Bosh. But Min has to be interested in Deng and we need to hope they don't draft Wesley Johnson which means they don't need Deng. Also, I am sure Gar/Pax are in constant touch with Toronto on what they need for S & T and trying to make that happen in a 3 way trade if they can..

  • Theres a couple offers i would give to them.

    1. Deng + Taj + 1st rounder

    2. Hinrich + Taj + 2 future 1st rounders

    If they want Asik, ill throw him in there as well...same goes for James Johnson. I really think the Bulls got the draft pick from Charlotte so they can end up trading it. Our team is most likely going to be very good next year and years after so i wouldnt mind trading some of our draft picks. Our pick would be late 1st rounders anyway.

    I like our chances with getting Bosh, i just think Collangelo would be crazy to trade him to us. I think the conversation they should be having is this....

    Hello Mr Colangelo, this is Gar and we would like you to join our front office if you trade us Chris Bosh lol

  • I know Toronto and LA had serious discussions about Bynum but the Raptor must be concerned about his health issues. If they cool off then it's anybodies guess but if Bosh does want to wait for LeBron the Bulls package isn't so bad. Deng,Taj+1st rounder could be pretty solid.

  • Doug, I think Houston and Oklahoma are part of this discussion as well. Especially if Lebron stays in Cleveland. I think he will tho.

    Bynum is by far the best deal but I think he's overpaid and overhyped. He plays well for the lakers because Kobe and Gasol takes the pressure off everyone else. If he is focused on as an offensive focal point, he will be less effective. Also, he is very very injury prone and I would say he is also lazy and unmotivated. It would be 10x worst in Toronto.

    Knicks cant offer anything reasonable without killing a team thats on life support so theyre not in my mindset.

    Miami has Wade. You dont need much more than that. Replace O'Neal with Bosh and Miami probably have a better playoff run. They still need a center though.

    I dont like our offer as much as the Lakers but if Bosh is dead set on coming that makes it easier. Otherwise, I think we have no choice but to get a third team involved to get Bosh. No question. Probably Minnisota or Memphis or maybe even
    Washington. Teams looking to add talent who they probably wont sign.

    It will be an interesting summer.

  • Wait a minute. Before we get to the Bosh sign and trade which before was being slammed as impossible, but now is a "what's the best package/scenariorama" where we may/probably have the best package?

    But first who is the big, fat liar? Phil who says he was not contacted indirectly/through backchannels, or the sources and the major market reporters who purveyed their lies? Certainly there was a time where this unnamed source b.s. did not go on as it does today. But really, if ESPN or some other mega corporate billion dollar TV or newspaper chain engages in irresponsible reporting who's going to scurtinize them/make them pay? The newspapers and radio stations they own? Sure as hell not a corrupt congress. What a joke these Chris Broussard, Peter Vescey, and Marc Stein corporate money rating's/sensational headline ho's are.

    I don't know what's worse the lies for ratings that have become accepted standards and practices, or the non-transparency of officiating "objectives" from Stern/Stu Jackson and these ultra-cocky, gambling rights preserved "referees." Of course the officiating could be handled by an independent body and/or All correspondence, training, and communications could be made available to the public within a six month span. But where would the fun be in honesty, accountablity/transparency?

    As far as Bosh do we ever really know what a team wants? Expiring contracts for next summer to spend on who? Bynum who's played less time due to injury over his NBA career then many seventh or eighth men on a team's roster? Do they want to simply give out a little more salary then they get back, and disperse that over draft picks/young guns of their choosing in a deep draft? What about the terrible year they had with long term contract newlywed Turkoglu?

    If Paxson didn't look like an emotional wreck during his "apology" speech at the "Good luck Vinny, We Hardly New Ya" press conference, then he must have just got off one scary f-ing plain ride. And Marty Feldman look alike old bug eyes gar Forman as dynamic trading partner..? "We're not going to put ourselves in a box. I have no idea who are candidates are.." "Wait Thibedau, waiiittt!!!" New Orleans being expedient, and talking to guys/taking care of business, how crass? "John Salmons, John Salmons and Brad Miller" No, he's a wizard sorry forgot about that which we barely escaped to get under the cap.

    Who knows what's going to happen. I just hope the Bulls acquire some picks to package because a bird in the hand seems more appealing to me then all these way down the raod/rainy day selections.

  • Any thoughts on swapping Deng for Turkoglu in a Bosh S&T?

  • If I were the Raptors I'd just want someone to take Turkoglu off my hands but not at the price of taking back huge risks. Beasley is a huge risk to ever develop into star but Bynum is a huge risk just to stay healthy let alone become a star or great player and he's getting paid 3 times as much.

    As for the Bulls I can't see Toronto taking back Deng, assuming the Bulls wuold be taking on Turkoglu because they would just be awful together, because that would be like trading Baron Davis away because he is on a bad contract only to take on Gilbert Arenas.

    Hinrich's contract might not be a negative because it is descending and expiring in 2012 so could be valuable in the not too distant future but I can't see a scenario in which the Bulls land Bosh but retain Noah. I'd sure love for one to happen though.

    These trading partners all look weak, not like they were going to get equal value, but it looks like it might be take back scraps or lose Bosh for nothing.

  • In reply to MADman24:

    Thats what Im thinking...if the Bulls sign LeBron James....WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD COLANGELO TRADE US BOSH!?!?! lol I would trade him to a bad team for less pieces if i were him. You give him to us with LeBron...and Toronto would struggle for the next 6-8 years.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    That's why we either need to get Bosh arranged before free agency, or offer them a ton of picks and young talent in return.

    That's really the only time Toronto holds any power, is if the team getting Bosh is over the cap.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Knicks can only trade David Lee if Lee agrees and they renounce him.
    If they do that, what's there for David Lee not to sign with Chicago and do a S&T for Bosh. Or, the Nets might sign him outright..

  • In reply to MADman24:

    Even Hinrich + Taj or 1st for Murphy would be a decent deal. I think Murphy is a free agent next year too. So if he doesnt work out, we can use his money. Thats if you think Murphy is better then having Taj and Kirk. He hits open shots, even 3 balls and doesnt clog the lane, double double machine as well...rebounds very well.

  • In reply to MADman24:

    Knicks can trade David Lee.

  • It was before he signed his contract, but there is behind the draft video out there of Colangelo actually calling up Pax and asking him if Deng was available. That's my glimmer of hope that they could be interested in him.

    As far as first rounders go, i'm sure they'll interest Toronto, but at the same time, Colangelo is certainly on the hot seat so i'm sure he's looking for at least 1 impact sure thing as opposed to future firsts (whether or not he gets it is another story).

  • It was before he signed his contract, but there is behind the draft video out there of Colangelo actually calling up Pax and asking him if Deng was available. That's my glimmer of hope that they could be interested in him.

    As far as first rounders go, i'm sure they'll interest Toronto, but at the same time, Colangelo is certainly on the hot seat so i'm sure he's looking for at least 1 impact sure thing as opposed to future firsts (whether or not he gets it is another story).

  • It was before he signed his contract, but there is behind the draft video out there of Colangelo actually calling up Pax and asking him if Deng was available. That's my glimmer of hope that they could be interested in him.

    As far as first rounders go, i'm sure they'll interest Toronto, but at the same time, Colangelo is certainly on the hot seat so i'm sure he's looking for at least 1 impact sure thing as opposed to future firsts (whether or not he gets it is another story).

  • I find it interesting that you are an ardent Deng supporter yet you consistently refer to Deng as an albatross in trade scenarios.

    Looking at everything that you proposed, an decent argument could be made that Deng and even Hinrich are the most accomplished NBA players listed, despite thier contracts.

    Bynum has the most upside, and is the guy that I would want if I were Toronto, but he makes even more than Deng, so with his injury history, he is a bigger risk than Deng. However, there is always a perceived premium on big guys.

    If the Knicks were to land Lebron and Bosh, where exactly would Turkoglu play. He is a 3, and situational 4 at best. Same with Galinari if he stays. I can't believe that the Knicks would blow all their cap space for the next 4 years on Turky. For Toronto, getting rid of him might be the most attractive trade option.

    I just can't see a Bulls S&T that doesn't involve Deng.

    Finally, I don't beleive that this will be Toronto's choice to make. At some point Bosh will make up his mind and pick a team, maybe a offer a second choice, but he will definately have a strong preference, and that team will be in the drivers seat not Toronto.

    There is no way he is letting Toronto make the choice for him, if he did that would make me wonder about him even more than I already do.

  • Ya and i dont see any player wanting to go play in Toronto any time soon...so imo i think Toronto is going to want a good player back. Deng Taj and a draft pick or 2 would be a good addition for them.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    I think Toronto's best shot is at building Euroleague West. The city is a lot more appealing to Europeans, I think, so they're more likely to be able to retain them come negotiation time.

  • You're probably right, which means that it's all the more likely that Lebron will be the first domino to fall.

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