Break up of the dynasty still weighing on the Bulls

Per Freddy Mitchell:

"I think the biggest question that you think about has to be loyalty,"
said Wade, a Richards grad who added he has been a Bulls fan for a long
time. "I know one thing about Miami: It is a very loyal organization. I
see what they do with their players when their players get done with
the game of basketball ... how loyal they are. I don't know about the
Bulls."

"I see Michael Jordan is not there, Scottie Pippen is
not there. ... You know, these guys are not a part," Wade said. "Things
like that. So that is probably one of the biggest things for me,
because I am a very loyal person."

What strikes me most about this, is that I find the Bulls are an exceptionally loyal organization.   However, the bad vibes of the dynasty's breakup have come back to haunt them yet again.  

Not loyal to Scottie Pippen?   We signed and traded him for absolute junk just to get him a better a contract at his next destination.   We then paid him 10 million dollars to come back later on when he was absolutely done, but also absolutely broke.  He could only play for one of the years on the deal.   The team basically did him a huge favor because of his debt problems.

John Paxson currently serves as the Bulls executive vice president, and the Bulls have stuck by him despite a pretty crazy episode with Vinny Del Negro.   They also have a very, very strong history of promoting from within according to the people I know who work there.   They gave Bill Cartwright a job as an assistant and eventually named him head coach despite not being particularly qualified for the job. 

B.J. Armstrong had a job as assistant general manager for awhile working with Jerry Krause.  Notice that when he left, B.J. Armstrong has not gone on to work as a G.M. elsewhere.

Pete Myers presently works as an assistant coach for the Bulls forever as well.

They paid out Jay Williams contract when they didn't have to after he voided his contract in the way that he injured himself.   In the end though, it really comes back to the bitter feelings about the team's breakup.  

The Bulls have employed Bob Love for as long as I can remember as their director of community relations despite the fact that he has a speech impediment.

In fact, pretty much the only example of a "lack of loyalty" is that they didn't make Jordan GM or owner when he retired.  I doubt the Heat are giving Wade an ownership share for free or making him general manager when he retires either. 

Jordan simply wouldn't take any other position with the Bulls, and when he found a deal he liked with the Wizards he grabbed it.  If you want to complain about a lack of loyalty blame the Wizards for milking Jordan as a player when he unretired to play for peanuts and then failing to give him his GM job/ownership stake back.

In the end, the perception is out there.  I don't think it's fair, but there it is.

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  • My take on the issue of loyalty and the Bulls is that the organization will support and promote you if you don't talk out of turn and slavishly follow the company line as set by Chairman Reinsdorf. Good examples of course are Pete Myers and Bill Wennington. The supreme example was Krause who did all the dirty work JR gave him despite making numerous blunders. Question Reinsdorf's leadership or acumen, as Phil Jackson and MJ did and you are out of the picture. In short, the Bulls run their organization similar to most of corporate America.

  • Phil Jackson and MJ are the biggest reasons they won along with Scottie a close second. I don't know if they tried but they should have made MJ a minority owner. Obviously, there would have been some friction between MJ and the GM with MJ being more than a little hands on person. But, he would have been a great selling point. Don't you think if MJ was the president of basketball ops or minority owner now, LeBron/Wade would have been almost a slam-dunk!!

  • Yea, I find it suprising.

    These are one of the things we need to answer during our FA pitch to the players.

    I think the Bulls have a really good situation tho, but I wonder how high we are on FA list of destinations. A big city, a good team, cap space. I wonder how much the Paxson thing will effect it.

    I feel the team and city speak for themselves. However, I wonder if Carlos Boozer was right when he said every FA is looking at chicago right now as a place they wanna be and win.

    I would take Carlos Boozer if we missed out on everything else. I dont think its a huge loss. Him and Rose would be effective imo.

    Rose/Hinrich
    FA/17/Hinrich
    Deng/JJ
    Boozer/Taj
    Noah/Miller/Asik

    This team would have beaten the Cavs imo.

  • Yeah this is stupid. So D-Wade will get his pitch with Lebron and then we will get ours. Let's hope they have this list printed out.

  • In reply to Dileg:

    I think you hit it on the head. Wade is separating himself from the free agents, getting ready to pitch to them for Miami. If he decides to leave, it won't be until later if they miss out on everyone he feels capable.

  • In reply to Dileg:

    By the way, didn't JERRY REINDORF let Michael Jordan be apart of his professional baseball team, the Chicago White Sox, after Jordan retired from basketball the first-time around?

    I believe he did.

    That's LOYALTY.

    Looking at the landscape of the Bulls' and White Sox' organizations, I would say that Jerry Reinsdorf is a pretty LOYAL owner.

  • Wade is losing it.

  • Can't forget about Stacey King broadcasting the games! lol

  • I think it is more an issue of excuses and pretexts than perception. you made a very convincing and fair argument for the Bulls' loyalty and if someone does not see it he is either has his own agenda or is totally spoiled and out of touch with reality... And, yes, no organization is perfect and i am sure that there are people unhappy with the Bulls treatment and some among them rightfully so but as a whole the organization is contientiously loyal.

  • Pippen had other similar offers from other teams.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    Even if my memory was wrong, the Bulls lack of loyalty after Pippen helped them win 6 championships is much more striking. The wouldn't give a long term max contract like other teams.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    Yep...your memory is wrong...

  • We have a Jordan Statue and Red Kerr statue @ our stadium. Where else can you find that?

    Sounds pretty loyal.

  • Reinsdorf picked Krause over the GOAT, Hall-of-Famer Pippen, one of the greatest coaches over & didn't let a team defend it's ring. If you don't think that is going to be a negative, I can't help you.

  • How did it work in retrospect to let Krause blow-up the championship team?

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    Blowing up the championship team is unprecedented in bball, right?

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    Your explanation lacks facts. Krause didn't blow up the championship team...he tried, but was stopped...by Reinsdorf.

  • In reply to Houston:

    IF Krause had been dumped anywhere along the line, 1998 would not have been the end of the dynasty.

    Phil, Michael, and then Scottie and Rodman would have stayed and we would have won at least one more championship, maybe 2.

    I call that blowing up a championship team.

  • In reply to Houston:

    Perception is reality, especially with a bunch of coddled athletes who have no concept of what reality is really like.

  • In reply to Houston:

    I must say I am amazed that such statement comes from the guy earning milions a year for running with a basket ball. That "star", that self confident millionaire, asks not only for fat paychecks now, but also a promise of warm chair in the office in his sport afterlife. Because this is what he calls loyality, isn't it? It is just comical.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    How can Dwyane Wade question BULLS' LOYALTY?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/...0526,0,1531138.story

    HE'S OUT OF LINE and MISINFORMED!!!

    He really should do his RESEARCH before he speaks.

    THE BULLS ORAGANIZATION and LOYALTY:

    - John Paxson, former player, is the current V.P. of the Bulls.

    - Randy Brown, former player, is a current assistant for the Bulls.

    - Pete Meyers, former player, is a current assistant for the Bulls.

    - Lindsey Hunter, former player, is a current assistant for the Bulls.

    - B.J. Armstrong, former player, was hand picked to represent Derrick Rose.

    - Stacey King, former player, is the current TV analyst for the Bulls.

    - Bill Wennington, former player, is the current Radio analyst for the Bulls.

    - Scottie Pippen, former player, was offered a job with the Bulls but he didn't accept yet, but still interacts with the team.

    - Bobby Hansen, former player, was the Director for Youth Programs, before leaving to take a job at the University of Iowa.

    - Toni Kukoc, former player, is from Croatia but still lives in the Chicagoland area and finds time to interact with the team.

    - Michael Jordan wanted FULL OWNERSHIP in the NBA and wasn't going to get that in Chicago. He got it in Charlotte. Yet he still manages to always thank the Bulls' fans and the organization for their support. In fact, he even went into the Bulls' lockerroom to congratulate the Bulls' players and coaches for making the playoffs after they beat his Charlotte Bobcats' team on the last day of the regular season.

    - Phil Jackson is still well-respected by Bulls' fans and the organization, despite the fact HE CHOSE TO LEAVE the organzation, because he knew Michael Jordan was at the end of his career.

    - Jay Williams, former player, who breached his contract by riding a motorcyle, which eventually led to a crash that ended his career, didn't have to get paid, but John Paxson decided to do that for him anyway. Is that not loyalty?

    - Eddy Curry, former player, who developed a heart condition was offered full insurance and testing by John Paxson, but decided to accept a trade to the New York Knicks instead. Is that not loyalty? By the way, how's that working out?

    - Ben Gordon, former player, was offered a HUGE contract extention by John Paxson, which Gordon turned down before going to the Detroit Pistons. Is that not loyalty? By the way, how's that working out for BG7?

    - Chicago Bulls' fans have led the league in attendance over the last decade and possibly even the last two decades. The have seen the best of times and the worst of times. Is that not loyalty?

    Now, that's what I would call LOYALTY Dwyane Wade.

    THE HEAT ORGANIZATION and LOYALTY:

    * If Dwyane Wade wants to question LOYALTY maybe he should start by looking at the lack of fan support at the American Airlines Arena during home games.

    * Or he can look at the FACT that the Miami Heat organization only has TWO former players (Alonzo Mourning and Keith Askins) on their payroll vs. the Chicago Bulls organization who have several former players on their payroll.

    * Or he could look at the greed of Pat Riley and his desire to push out quality head coaches, so he can get all the credit for the teams' success.

    ADVICE FOR DWYANE WADE:

    My advice to Dwyane Wade is to STOP bashing and disrespecting your hometown ("My heart is in Miami" coment), their fans and the team you grew up admiring, idolizing and emulating.

    Better yet he should STOP BEING BITTER about the Chicago Bulls drafting Derrick Rose, instead of the Miami Heat doing so.

    Even more so, he should STOP BEING BITTER that he didn't get drafted by his hometown team back in 2003. It's hard to trade up in the draft when the Bulls best trading chip, Jay Williams, suffers a career-ending injury.

    He should do his RESEARCH, before he BASHES misinformed LOYALTY. The Bulls' organization and their fans are very LOYAL. They have shown that time and time again.

    If he says it's all about WINNING and LOYALTY, then Chicago is the best destination for him.

    ADVICE FOR BULL'S MANAGEMENT:

    - Hire Scottie Pippen, Ron Harper and Toni Kukoc.

    I'd put Pippen and Harper on the coaching staff with Mo Cheeks and let Kukoc work on foreign relations or scouting.

    READ BETWEEN THE LINES:

    Dwyane Wade just opened the door for his return to Chicago. He wants the Bulls' managment to show him some better LOYALTY within the organzation. Hiring Pippen, Harper and Kukoc could go along in getting Dwyane Wade on the Bulls next season.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Gotta give you props....really well written. **** D-Wade.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Somebody better call his mama.....

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    HAHA Bulls6...thats funny...he did leave his high school sweetheart to be with some bombshell famous actress didnt he!??!

    The Bulls are one of the loyalist teams out there are you kidding me?!

    MJ Statue is outside of our Building

    Johnny Red Kerrs statue as well

    Norm Van Leir worked for the bulls

    Kendall Gill works for the Bulls

    Pax is in the front office

    Gar has been here for like 8-9 years

    Bill Wennington works for Bulls radio

    Pippen is a frequent visitor on Bulls.com

    Randy Brown coaches the Bulls

    Pete MYers coaches the Bulls

    OH YA! Bill Carwright was the head coach here wasnt he!?

    What exactly is Wade trying to say here because he is obvously wrong lol How are the Heat loyal!? They had like one guy that was even any good on their team since they been there. Alonzo Mourning is like the only guy they done anything for that i can remember. You know whats loyal...how about when Pat Riley fires Stan Van Gundy right when he got that Shaq trade...so Riley could come coach for a year to win another ring!? D Wade get out of here...Chicago fans are going to really disslike you here pretty soon.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Excellent!!. Can you send this to D-Wade?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Screw Wade after those stupid comments lol Now i really want LeBron so we can beat them....But ya Great post Happy....i forgot some of those guys you mentioned...but ya, he really should of just shut up before he said something like this...because now he pissed off a lot of his Chicago fans. After saying that....now i know he isnt coming here.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I can see it now...Bulls fan booing Wade this coming season...i hope it happens too lol

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Best statement you've ever written. Nice Work Mr. Happy.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    THE TRUTH:

    Dwyane Wade's comments about the Bulls' loyalty were COWARDLY.

    He's AFRAID to play in the "Shadow of MJ."

    That's why he makes such NAIVE comments. He picked on Derrick Rose by saying, "Is he a great guard from Chicago already?" during his "Homecoming" with Rick Reilly. He picked on John Paxson by saying in a past radio interview, "It's not my fault he didn't trade up to get me." And how he is questioning the loyalty of Bulls' managment to their former players. He's doing it knowing full well how many of them work or have worked in the Bulls' organization after their playing days were over.

    He's just be COWARDLY. He's AFRAID of the expections of following in the footsteps of MJ.

    If can preach about WINNING, but it's not happening in Miami.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Correction:

    He can preach about WINNING, but it's not happening in Miami.

    Dwyane Wade should stop being BITTER and AFRAID and come play for the Chicago Bulls.

    A truly LOYAL organization.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    OK people... how many more times does Wade have to prove to you that he does not care about Chicago or the Bulls. I say let him stay in Miami cause when his career is over he will see just how loyal the city of Miami and the Heat will be towards him. Lebron and all these other free agent should do their research on the Bulls and they will see that the Bulls are loyal to their former players. Just because Jordan is not with the team does not mean that the team is not loyal. I will admit that when management did break up the Bulls, That I was very upset cause I knew as well as a lot of you knew that this team could have won at least 1 more championship with a shorten season in 99 but they were pretty much done after that season. These free agents need to have some pride and be competitive and win a championship without Wade cause he already has one. If it means teaming up on another team or staying with their present team. This article about what Wade said really rubbed me the wrong way and I really do hope that the Bulls can sign Lebron and Bosh or another good free agent so the Bulls can beat this arrogant ass until he retires. I know Miami will sign someone but I just hope that the Bulls will have all of the better signings then Miami.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    Dwyane Wade responds:

    http://twitter.com/dwadeofficial/status/14835817099

    According to him, things were taken out of context.

  • This is a entertainment/sports franchise. It has to be looked little differently than a General Motors, Ford..etc.. MJ made the Bulls for the last 20 years. If there was no MJ, with all due respect to Van Lier, Sloan, Red Kerr etc... they would have been the Milwaukee Bucks or Atlanta Hawks....without any pulse.

    It would have been a good business decision too. I know MJ was not prepared to do anything business wise with the Bulls in 1998. He had been focussed on playing. He could have been groomed for a business position not for a GM. I mean as a some "suit" in the org and slowly built up. He got a gig in Washington which he was not prepared and failed.

    The bottom line is Bulls didn't own Jordan anything...but the perception is common in other cities and basically if he was there it would have been a lot easier to sell the Bulls to LeBron/Wade. This is a common perception.

  • Human nature is to remember the negative more than the positive...and when a person associates themselves with person who is PERCEIVED to have been done wrong (in this case, Wade understandably associates himself more with the players he idolized), those negative memories take an even greater hold. I disagree with Wade, but I also saw this coming. I remember when KG criticized the Bulls for breaking up the dynasty. Just last summer, Wade and LeBron criticized the Bulls for letting BG go. You can gripe about it all you want, but rightly or wrongly, this perception is out there.

  • Just last summer, Wade and LeBron criticized the Bulls for "the way they went about" letting BG go. I meant the way they said they'd try to keep him and then let him walk for nothing without making him an offer.

  • In reply to magestew:

    BG7 got offered a bigger contract with the Bulls', then he signed with the Pistons.

    As I recall.

    It was smart to let BG7 go for that kind of money.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    As I recall the last offer the Bulls made BG was 2 summers ago. But either way, I do agree with them letting BG go under the circumstances. He wanted too much money. But other players don't see it that way and that's the whole point. Everybody wants to take this so personally, but the truth is what we think doesn't matter to the Bulls organization. What potential free agents think, however, does matter. If the other top FA's share Wade's opinion and are just too PC to say it publicly, the Bulls are in trouble this summer.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Wade, Lebron, Beasley together in Miami sound like a disaster waiting to happen. Wayyy too many egos and distractions to be focused on winning. It would almost feel like a joke IMO

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Ya exactly lol Wade REALLY screwed up by saying this stupid stuff.....his Chicago fans are dwindling as we speak...I never thought he would come here because he seemed pretty set with Miami. But now i really want LeBron so we can beat them in every year of the playoffs until his career is over. lol

    Hey Happy...i saw that you posted something from Wade's twitter....can you post what he said from there...im at work i cant see it!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    While I do agree that perception is differing from reality. I still cannot get out of my mind the countless number of times I would see Norm Van Lier weep on post game shows about how he had been treated by the Bulls organisation. Now granted, they did give him a job on the show. But you always got the feeling that he felt slighted by the organisation for not giving him a chance to coach, retiring his jersey or even inviting him to honor Red Kerr. Now he may have been unqualified to be a coach, may have been hard to get along with, and for what we know, maybe NVL would still have been dissatisfied no matter what the Bulls did. But you wish they would have tried to let him know their reasons why they did not allow him to be more engaged with the Bulls.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I just heard one of the more perceptive takes on this. Mr. Happy, I hate to disappoint you, but its pretty clear, at this point that D WADE is certaintly staying in Miami.

    How can he make comments about loyalty, then leave Miami? Clearly his is trying to sway Lebron or whomever to come to Miami because he knows that he's leaving. And for him to address Chicago directly means that if he did meet with Lebron and Johnson, one of them is strongly considering the Bulls.

    Me Thinks LBJ has Chicago Fever.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    well put. LBJ #6 PF chicago bulls fever for sure! Dwade is scared, he will never win another ring! hahah

  • In reply to Dmband:

    BIG SURPRISE:

    Dwyane Wade is now BACKTRACKING on his earlier words.

    http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/wade-responds-to-tribune-story.html

    Whatever!!!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    He is not really backtracking. He has planted that seed of doubt in all the other FA. Also, he is not coming to Chicago. He needs money more than the other FA because of all his issues and lifestyle. And he is going to get the max in Miami. Plus, this is probably his last big contract unlike LeBron or even Bosh. As somebody wrote earlier, he has probably heard from LeBron/Bosh that they are seriously planning to go the Bulls. If he doesn't win in Miami and is a 1st/2nd round flameout, those T-Mobile commercials also will go away..

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Formans defense is making Wade look stupid.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    Dmband,

    Believe me. Dwyane Wade is still BITTER that he didn't end up on the Bulls.

    That's why he has taken shots at the Bulls' management and even Derrick Rose.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    If you think about it...if the Bulls did keep that team together back in the day....yes they would of had a great chance to repeat BUT also....what if we didnt win again!? MJ's era and the Bulls wouldnt be as specail. As of right now...we are known for winning Titles...everytime MJ got there....He won it!!!! And i think thats really special.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    that should read "he knows he's NOT leaving"

  • This might be a ploy by Riley/Wade to attract Bosh, LeBron, Amare etc..whoever they can get. Put the seeds of doubt in their minds about the Bulls ...typical go for broke sales pitch..
    I hope Noah comes out with something..(like nobody goes to Cleveland for vacation)...say
    How Miami Heat organization screwed up by not being focussed on winning after winning a championship and partying too much to have a second chance.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I'll respond for Joakim.

    If Dwyane Wade doesn't come to Chicago and play for the Bulls, then he is a COWARD, who clearly was AFRAID to play in the SHAWDOW OF MJ.

    The best chance for Dwyane Wade to win is with the Bulls' organization.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    How about Randy Brown being broke and getting a job so he didnt have to pawn his championship ring.

    Are you kidding me DWade? He couldnt be more wrong. Doug you're 100% right about the Pippen example, and I think that Pip would agree the Bulls are loyal.

    Wade clearly doesnt know what he's talking about

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Dwyane Wade jealous/competing for the attention the Bulls are getting as players in the free agent market? What a shock, he's saying bad things about Chicago.

    People can't understand why all good things must come to an end. Let's see another franchise win six championships with the same star duo Michael/Scottie. People can get pretty bittter when they have the greatest entertainment, sexiest/alluring girlfriend etc., and then lose them. All the bitching, finger pointing.

    Honestly, anyone with a level head, and a life outside of the Bulls/not one dimensional knew that the sun was setting on that great Chicago story. All good things must come to an end. But people can't handle that loss/fact. I really could give a sh*t anymore why or what people perceive as the reasons for the end/breakup.

    The perception today about the Bulls is that Reinsdorf personally insults prospective coaching hires, likes to meddle: really does dictate coaching hires, Deng signing, stating Ben Gordon woudn't have gotten much playing time had he stayed, and other disingenuous crap.

    Paxson really had the rug pulled out from under him on the D'Antoni "dalliace" as K.C. so homoerotically and antiquatedly labels it. In essence made to look the fool. Likewise with the Deng negotiations.

    Gar Forman, "We don't acknowledge that we fiddled around for twenty years finding a coach, and ended up with a no experience shot in the dark in Vinny. Would we do it again? Of course. We do not recognize nor does K.C. Johnson or other Chicago media that there is a market for coaches. Teams will pursue and in essence compete for their services. Waiting around saying there's no urgency whatsoever to find the right guy, and make it known to him that he is the right guy, and secure him before someone else does. Hey if another team signs Thibedau even though we really were interested, hey, so be it."

    This B.S. that they are waiting for Doc Rivers or Phil jackson is just that. How stupid are some people. You think Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers are coming to coach the Bulls? LeBron's game five holiday showed he's not the next Michael or even Kobe. He's more of a hybrid Robin in a Batman's body. He almost fooled us with that M.J. impersonation he had going against regular season defenses and a lesser team like Chicago in the playoffs.

    The Bull's franchise is viewed as f-d up because it is f-d up.

    Besides looking like an emotional wreck who absolutely should not be an organizational head of an NBA franchise now or probably ever again, Paxson in is his time besides two huge gaffes in Ben Wallace and Tyrus Thomas brought in some talented, hard working character guys in B.G., Hinrich, and Deng. Prob is he couldn't find the right coach and the players were not talented enough. Scott Skiles is an immature, emotionally unstable guy who will never win a championship. But still was he a decent try? Sure.

    Pax brought Joakim in, Gar brought in Taj. They like character, hard working, loyal players. They are not demons. But they are not nearly dynamic or savvy enough to land the right top coach or stud talent.

    If LeBron comes here I'll be shocked. Nor do I think that means we win a chamionship even if he does. They will either hire the wrong coach or complimentary players. If they hadn't lucked out with Rose we'd still be in knowhere land. They're just not that good.

  • The odd thing is that Wade refers to himself as a very loyal person - but his wife is certainly going to have issues with that comment. She is divorcing him for his multiple affairs.

    Wade talking about loyalty is like a politician talking about honesty

  • MJ didn't make 100 mill from salary in his career, let alone the last three years as a bull. But I agree, MJ didn't want to be here unless he was gm and Krause was out. You really can't blame the bulls at that point for going in another direction. Krause looked like he had a plan and was a good gm and MJ was an unknown. If anything, they could have sold him a small share of the team, like 1-5%. Normally I'd say make him asst gm but he wouldn't have worked for krause.

  • The funny thing is that Bosh, Bron and Joe Johnson have all said/rumored they would like to play for the Bulls lol I wonder what kind of meeting this is going to be lol Every one will be fighting to play with the Bulls lol

  • keep this in mind. Wade does not have a big man like noah and does not have a All star point guard like rose. That is why he is making these comments. That is also the reason why bosh, bron and jj wanna come to "DA BULLS"! : )

  • Whatever. As I said, I thought BG was for too much anyway. And again, as I also said, the only thing that matters is what other FA's think. And if the other top FA's share Wade's opinion and are just too PC to say it publicly, the Bulls are in trouble this summer. I just hope, whether or not they get a top FA, that they can find a way to fill a couple of holes.

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