What to expect for 2010 free agency?

So the off-season begins in earnest, and we're left wondering what to expect from the Bulls when July 1st hits.   Let me throw this situation out there.   LeBron stays in Cleveland which seems more likely than not.   Here's my quick list:
LeBron -> Cleveland (if they win the title, otherwise, all's fair)
Wade -> Miami
Bosh -> Miami
Amare -> New York
Boozer -> New Jersey
Johnson -> Atlanta
David Lee -> Chicago

It could go in a number of ways, and my powers of prognostication have never landed me that job in Vegas setting odds, so breathe easy if the list appears scary.

First, I think LeBron stays for lack of a better destination.   New York is a mess, New Jersey is a mess, Chicago is good, but does he want to deal with being the second best player in franchise history?  The more I see LeBron, the more I think his ego would say no, he can't cope with that.  

Cleveland is likely to be a mess in a couple years, but I look for LeBron to do another three year deal with a fourth year option to keep the pressure on their front office to continually spend money and improve the team.    Thus, the 2013 plan will be born on July 2nd.

Dwyane Wade has basically discussed how he wants to stay in Miami, but that discussion is peppered by statements that he knows he'll be playing with a star next year, and that Miami better bring in someone.   If Miami's front office can't swing that, then Wade could leave, but that's a long shot, because there are three big men available, and Miami will bid on all three to keep Wade happy.   They'll get at least one of them most likely.

Chris Bosh is my best guess as to which of the three they get.   First, Bosh and Wade share the same agent group, and Wade has discussed with certainty the idea that they're going to land someone.   Maybe that's because he's already talked to Bosh or their agents have talked, or maybe he just thinks they have the room.   Either way, Miami seems like a prime destination for Bosh to play with a star in a city he'd love to live in.  

I don't consider this one a lock or even close.   I think the Bulls almost just a high shot at Bosh as does Miami, and there may be a team over the cap willing to put together a good sign and trade package for Toronto.   We'll have to wait and see what happens.   I do think the Bulls S&T package (likely Gibson, Charlotte 1st rounder, and trade exception) trumps whatever Miami will offer (likely Beasley and their on draft picks which will suck if they get Bosh).   Does that play a factor?   Perhaps, but probably not.

If Bosh is in Miami then I think the Bulls would be the logical destination for Amare or Boozer, but I think the Bulls fail to bid on both players.   They both are guys who you worry about holding up, have F management attitudes, and are likely to cash checks six months after being signed.

Personally, I think you've done so much to get to this point then you take the chance on Amare.   The talent level is obviously there, and they have to hope that the craziness and injuries simply don't rear their ugly head.    They may do that, but I don't expect them to.   The Bulls as an organization are very risk adverse.

It also depends how risk adverse other franchises are.   If the pricetag of either guy falls below the max then the Bulls are far more likely to bid.   Neither guy is worth a max contract IMO, but in this environment with so much money available I expect both to get such deals from New York and New Jersey.   If those teams prove to be more risk adverse than I expect then the Bulls stand a greater chance of being in the running.

If they do take a chance on one then I look for a five year deal.

Next comes Joe Johnson, whom everyone believes is going somewhere.   I'm not sure why that belief is there.   Of the FAs available he doesn't seem to have had any major beef with management [not that I'm a die hard Hawks fan so maybe I missed something], and he has a very solid team around him right now.  

He may not upgrade his situation by joining the Bulls, and he certainly isn't upgrading it by joining the Knicks or Nets.   I think he just settles down back in Atlanta assuming their offer is competitive.   If not, then I think he'll decide between the Bulls and Knicks if both offer him max deals.   I expect the Bulls to do this even though I don't particularly approve of it.  

It's not a terrible situation to get Johnson at the max as long as the team is willing to throw away it's cap structure, for many reasons I'm very concerned that they'll bid on Johnson at the max and then play conservative with the rest of their money, and if so it will be a horrific mistake.   Bidding on Johnson with the willingness to go 10-15 million into the tax would be good, but bidding on him with a hard cap at the tax would be bad.

Finally, that leaves us with David Lee.   If all the teams who have big money spend it on the above guys, then Lee might be available for less than the max, and his max is lower than the max of the other guys by about five million a season anyway.

Much like Johnson, signing Lee to a huge money deal is a mistake if we're not willing to spend, but is a good move if we are.   Signing Lee also leaves the Bulls enough room to acquire another decent sized FA as well.  

If the Bulls end up with one of the big men then I expect them to pursue a shooter with the leftover money.   Anthony Morrow, Mike Miller, and JJ Reddick are some players who can shoot who will be available in free agency.   Morrow's the popular choice amongst the Bulls blogosphere due to his ridiculous three point percentage and young age, but really any great shooter would help this team tremendously.

In the end, the likely scenario is that the Bulls come back a significantly upgraded team.   They also likely come back one piece shy of being a top tier title threat with enough future salary to make it awfully difficult to add that final piece with their past spending patterns.  

Comments

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  • If we're stuck paying Lee close to the Max it will be a sad day for all bulls fans. The only way I would even think about signing Lee to a big deal is if we could get a young up and comer like OJ Mayo or monta Ellis in a S&T.

  • I messed that up, we wouldn't need a S&T for Ellis or Mayo. If we could somehow match salaries with hindrich it would be a deal worth looking into IMO.

  • We've talked about bad performances forcing other guys out, what about Atlanta getting knocked out by the injury hit Bucks? Looks likely that they'll lose now, and that could always change Johnson's mind (or the Hawks mind on their willingness to spend big for that matter).

    I think Boozer goes to whoever offers him the most money. Depending on what happens with Amare that may well mean the Knicks.

    Really it's hard to predict it all because one guy going somewhere different will change all the others too. We can't rule out a sign and trade to a team over the cap either, I know they don't have the leverage to force someone's hand by themselves, but if a player says "I want to go to teams X, Y or Z" and X is under the cap then Y and Z get leverage by proxy.

  • Take this for what its worth but there's a poster on another board that I visit that claims to be best friends with the heat owners son. He claims that Wade has already told management that he is returning and the poster claims that bosh has also told heat management that he will sign with them this summer. The poster also claims that lebron will basically make his fa decision with what him and world wide Wes think is best for the lebron brand.

  • 1. I think Joe Johnson is good as gone from Atlanta. Even if they win the series against Milwaukee, they are bound to go out against Orlando. He has seen this movie before and this is his last chance to get to a winning team.
    2. I do agree with Doug that we might not get the premier FA(Bosh/Wade). This is mainly because of the harm done by John Paxson's fight with VDN. And you have Pat Riley's aura in Miami. Which means...realistically we will get the second tier FAs who will come for the money and the sales pitch from Reinsdorf.
    3. If we get Lee, Rudy Gay and other SGs, that is a ticket for elimination in the 2nd round or the Eastern Conf Finals for the next 6 years with no chance of winning a title. But that said, we will take it because you never know who might get injured and how Rose will develop with a legit Shooting Guard/Decent Big guys next to him.

  • I personally love the idea of signing Lee and either Morrow/Mike Miller. Lee is young, athletic, and is perfect in the pick and pop or pick and roll. He allows Taj to become the first big off the bench - perfect for him - and doesn't disturb this team's balance too much.

    Signing David Lee and then Anthony Morrow gives the Bulls the best rebounding combination in the NBA, much needed size/shooting on the wing, and still allows Rose to be the leader and alpha dog on this team. Plus Lee and Morrow are young and would add to a growing core that would be fun to watch compete for years.

    I just hate the idea of signing Bosh or Amare and becoming a perennial 3rd seed in the East, stunting Rose's growth, and being in cap trouble with an aging star in 3 years. If it doesn't fit, don't cram it in there. Do what you can, be patient, and build things the right way for the long term.

  • In reply to DanFrystak:

    The issue of Rose being the alpha has also crossed my mind. I think it's important that he remains #1, but think only Wade or LBJ would unseat him.

    Bosh? Johnson? Amare? I think Rose is still alpha with those three, and of course, with anyone else.

  • In reply to DanFrystak:

    If the Bulls got rid of Hinrich when they had multiple chances to do so, and signed BG to 6/54, this would be no doubt the #1 most attractive spot this summer for a big man.

  • In reply to charitystripe:

    Assuming Gordon didn't have the injury plagued season he did.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    Even if he was injured this year as a Bulls, it would still be a much more attractive destination. Injured plagued or not, he's still one of the games best scorers an shooters.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    boozer has better odds of landing in chicago. They're not trading Lee for boozer(not a literal trade, but a figurative one). I know new york has to sign some1, but my guess is that it will be gay( both literally and figuratively).

    Does anyone remember those wonderful rumors of hinrich for boozer. We actually believed that some1 else would want his horrendous contract. Man, those were the days.

  • In reply to pinkizdead:

    Boozer isn't going to get it done. JP should pass him on by.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I'd prefer Boozer to Lee any day. Unless of course they could get Lee for five years at $35 million. That is not going to happen.

    Boozer at 12-15/year is way better than Lee at a similar price.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    I'll take Lee over Boozer. He's younger and has more FIGHT.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    amen

  • In reply to jt563905:

    Hey Doug,

    Couldn't we just do a salary dump of Kirk to a team that's under the cap? The Wizards come to mind. They are under the cap and nobody is going to that trainwreck. We could offer any combination of our pick, the Bobcats pick, Taj Gibson, James Johnson, and/or the rights to Asik to push the deal through. The picks and Gibson would be attractive to a team starting over. Kirk is a model citizen that play in the backcourt with Gilbert. Kirk's contract isn't so horrible that it can't be dumped - 2yrs and declining salary. We take back non guarunteed contracts or 2nd round picks in return. The loss of salary would give us the ability to sign two max free agents wouldn't it? Are there other teams under the cap that could do a similar deal?

  • In reply to kbar17:

    Does anyone know if what I'm asking is possible? I think this idea cuts out the middle man.

  • In reply to kbar17:

    Couldn't we just do a salary dump of Kirk to a team that's under the cap? The Wizards come to mind. They are under the cap and nobody is going to that trainwreck. We could offer any combination of our pick, the Bobcats pick, Taj Gibson, James Johnson, and/or the rights to Asik to push the deal through. The picks and Gibson would be attractive to a team starting over. Kirk is a model citizen that play in the backcourt with Gilbert. Kirk's contract isn't so horrible that it can't be dumped - 2yrs and declining salary. We take back non guarunteed contracts or 2nd round picks in return. The loss of salary would give us the ability to sign two max free agents wouldn't it? Are there other teams under the cap that could do a similar deal?

  • In reply to kbar17:

    I pretty much agree with Doug's 2010 potential destinations. The only thing I would change is Bosh going to the Lakers, and Amare going to the Heat. Lee signing with the Bulls is spot on. He fills a need, should leave space to sign a quality shooting guard, and possibly Omer Asik.

    I don't think the Bulls will have a shot at signing Morrow. That's probably where the Knicks money will come in. They will probably end up overpaying for the Morrows and Feltons of the 2010 free agent class. But the Bulls should at least take a look at Kelenna Azubuike. He's a pretty good shooter and is a nice finisher around the basket.

    So, when the 2010 free agent spending spree is over and done with. If the Bulls could sign Lee, Azubuike, Asik and draft a center just in case Asik sucks, I would be more than happy.

  • In reply to kbar17:

    I see a lot of Deng to Toronto talk on this site...TOR already have Hedo on a huge deal why would they take Deng???

  • In reply to kbar17:

    LeBron- Cleveland
    Wade- Miami
    Amare-Maimi
    Bosh- Chicago
    Boozer- Utah or NY
    Joe Johnson- Atlanta or Chicago
    Dirk- Mavs

    Bulls need to land Bosh or Amare...we waited 3 years for this summer, if we walk away with D Lee then losing BG,Tyrus,Salmons etc... wasnt worth it.

    I believe this is the year the Bulls organization actually gets it right...We will hire a big time coach (Byron Scott or Doc Rivers) and then we will also sign a big time FA this summer...Bosh.

  • In reply to kbar17:

    Bosh is asking the public where he should go. Time for Chicago fans to start the recruiting campaign and do Paxson's job for him? http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/04/30/bosh.twitter.ap/index.html

  • In reply to jt563905:

    Any time you can effectively trade Gordon, Thomas, and Salmons to get David Lee and Anthony Morrow while wasting a season of Derrick Rose's career, you gotta do it.

  • In reply to bullsblogger:

    I will send GarPax a box of Quietus and ask them to do the honorable thing if that scenario comes to pass. It would make Ron Mercer and Eddie Robinson seem like all-time deft moves.

    I may be an optimist, but I don't see that happening.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    I don't really agree with your assessment Doug. Honestly, I think both New York and New Jersey are gonna get SCREWED this offseason. They are gonna get some mediocre pick-ups. But, they remind me a lot of the 99 bulls. Reinsdorf tryed to pick up Tim Duncan and other amazing players with lots of money, but failed becaused there were absolutely no pieces here at the time. I really think that most players will ignore them completely.

    Boozer and Amare will either stay with their current team or go to Miami or Chicago. I think its more realistic that each player goes back to their current teams. Both teams are great, and I would be surprised if they wouldn't want to stay. So, I think we will probably still get Lee (which I'm disappointed about).

    I pray that we don't get Johnson, just because I don't think he will last very long. He will get a long contract and end up being good for a couple years before rapidly declining.

    Here is what I'm hoping for:

    Chris Bosh and Anthony Morrow with Byron Scott as the coach.

    I wouldn't mind trading away Hinrich, but, I don't know what we would get in return. All i know is if we had the interior scoring of Bosh (plus he has a great jump shot), the penetrating of Rose, the grittiness and also interior scoring of Noah (and all his other amazing skills), the perimeter shooting of Morrow, and Deng/Hinrich/Taj doing some important role playing...THATS A TEAM.

    I am looking forward to the offseason. But, I think we could end up with Lee and this team will probably be a 50 win team that never reaches the championship. If we get the top tier players, we could easily be a championship contender within 3-4 years.

    Rev

  • In reply to jt563905:

    Joe Johnson looks scary to give a 6 year contract. But if you look at his age, he is 6 years younger than Ray Allen. So, if he is like the current day "Ray Allen" at the end of his career, we can take it.

    I think the Bulls will use the Boston Celtics as the role model team in terms of types of pieces but start competing at younger ages of the stars.

    Rondo -> Rose --- Rose off course will be 2 times the player Rondo will ever be in shooting and strength.
    Ray Allen -> Joe Johnson or Morrow ...all at younger ages.
    KG -> Noah.... Noah is way behind on offense and probably will never reach KG's level when they won the championship...but another PF/Center should make up the offense
    The Wildcard: Pierce -> Deng...complete mismatch here for Bulls...need to upgrade or hope the other players make up for the Deng to Pierce deficit..

    Then you are looking at a good contending team.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    After watching our series with Cleveland and the BucksHawks, I can't help but wonder if we had kept Gordon, Salmons and Thomas might it not be the Bulls advancing towards the Eastern Conference Championship, provided Vinny had pulled the right substitution strings?
    In terms of Free Agency might one of the two scenarios, already suggested by some, not make sense:
    First at the Draft:
    1. Trade Hinrich, our #1 & Charlotte's to GS for Ellis, or

    2. Trade those 2 picks plus Taj and whomever else not named Rose or Noah to NO for David West

    Either move would make the Bulls more attractive the next week for either Joe Johnson or BoschLeeAmare, depending on which need remained between SG or PF

  • In reply to BobBoozer:

    I like that 2nd option. But in any case, I think you touch on a solid point: the Bulls need to be active well in advance of 7/1. Hiring the right coach, exploring draft day moves, etc.

  • In reply to BobBoozer:

    Pat Riley will find a way to screw the Bulls again and get Bosh to Miami. I say that Riley screwed the Bulls cause in the 2003 draft the Bulls was set to draft D-Wade with the seventh pick and Miami which had the third or fourth pick were projected to draft I believe it was Josh Howard and they threw the whole draft off by stealing D-Wade with that earlier pick and the Bulls were forced to draft Ben Gordan. So look for Riley to get Bosh to Miami to play with Wade. He will sucker Toronto to take some kind of stupid deal that they will jump at cause Pat Riley is slick like that. I have said it before, the Bulls will have a good chance at David Lee or Joe Johnson, try to trade for in this order Rudy Gay, Al Jefferson, Montae Ellis, or Anthony Morrow. Other free agents, JJ Redickk, Mike Miller, Ray Allen and try to Keep Brad Miller. They should not waste time with Bosh or Wade. Make your pitch to them, woo them, if they seem to be stalling, keep it moving. See whats going on with Stuodemire and Boozer if they have not resigned with their current teams, if they don't give you an answer after the wooing and they start to stall... keep it moving and go to the second tier free agents I mentioned earlier. The Bulls need to be very aggressive when it comes to trying to sign these free agents cause a lot of these free agents sounds like wont be leaving their teams except for Bosh and the second tier free agents. So if they are stuck with signing the second tier, why not go after the best second tier and try to make some aggressive trades. LET "HOPE" THE BULLS ARE BIG PLAYERS THIS SUMMER!!! And as far as the draft goes I will say it again... JORDAN CRAWFORD has all of the skills and a whole lot more talent then Henry, Anderson, and all of these other guards that some people keep mentioning. Guess we will have to see how things turn out.

  • In reply to BobBoozer:

    Doug, fairly realistic assesment. However, I think that the Bulls are under a massive amount of public pressure to make a huge splash. This could be the one opportunity to make this type of splash. Although, they could role it over to 2011.

    Therefore, I think the Bulls will be much more aggressively proactive in making something happen than just standing back and offering contracts to the top five guys and hoping one will sign with the Bulls.

    I think they will actively try to arrange a sign and trade using Deng first and Hinrich second. Obviously I am not a Deng fan, but if he is a good as you think that he is then he should have reasonable value in a S&T. Toronto and Pheonix might/should have an interest.

    This would allow them to compete with Miami by potentially landing 2 max free agents. If Lebron stays in Cleveland, then I think they will go after Bosh and Johnson, or Amare and Johnson as a package.

    Unfortunately, I agree with you on Wade and Bosh in Miami, which is why the Bulls cannot afford to sit around and wait for the "process" to play itself out. They have to be super aggressive and try anything and everything to make something happen. Miami can if they chose strip down to Wade only and have room to sign to max guys in addition to Wade, that makes them scary. I see them as the big winner this summer, unless Lebron changes teams, then of course whoever gets him is the biggest winner.

    Could definately see the Lakers or Mavs making moves to get Bosh if they don't win it all or even make the finals.

    Although, I haven't seen enough of him to form an educated opinion, my gut sense is that I would be happy to have Anthony Morrow at the end of the day as our second guy.

    If the Bulls do indeed lose out on the big names, I would advocate trading Deng to Minny for Kevin Love, which if executed properly could give us even more cap space.

    Love and Morrow in 2010, Melo in 2011, maybe that is a plan.

  • In reply to BobBoozer:

    Reesel it wasnt Gordon the year the bulls were predicted to take Wade it was Hinrich, the bulls had planned on taking Wade but had to change to hinrich at the last minute because Miami surprised everybody.

    If the bulls get Lee and Gay or Morrow or all three then they've built a very competitive team. Isnt that what the bulls fans want? I would much rather come out of this free agency class with something and not rerun our great Ron Mercer and Eddie Robinson deals, of the past. I dont see a lot of these players leaving but we'll see, plus the bulls could easily pull off some great trades in the draft.

  • In reply to Snypershawn:

    Yeah snypershawn I knew it was something like that, its just been so long ago I could not remember. But like I said the Bulls cannot waste their time with Wade or Bosh cause from what I am hearing I am starting to believe Bosh will sign with Miami even though the Bulls would be the best fit for him. These players need to learn how to win and forget about where they are playing and all the other distracting thing around them. After seeing the Bulls really compete with the Cavs, Bosh, if he is smart should be able to see that him with the Bulls would have a very competitive team for some years to come that would ultimately get them a championship. Bosh with Wade will not make them that much better cause as we all know that is Wade's team and he would always run the show. In Chicago Bosh would be the man playing with an elite guard and center in Noah. Again lets hope that Bosh is smart and he is really ready to win.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Reesel,

    What can Miami offer Toronto in a sign-and-trade? Not much.

    Mike Beasley is NOT Bryan Colangelo's type of player.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    That is the same thing that I'm saying Mrhappy. Miami doesn't really have anything besides Beasley. But knowing Pat Riley's history of outsmarting these other teams to get the players that he wants... Toronto will be stupid and jump at something he offers. And again Bosh has to be smart about wanting to win and realize where his best chance at winning for a lot of years to come would be. It ultimately comes down to him and where he wants to be. I guess we will see if he is really serious about winning cause even if he does go to Miami their team will be better but they wont be that much better and he should know that going to the Heat he will not be the man down there. In Chicago he has a guard that is looking to pass the ball and a center who will help him rebound and a supporting cast that will fight to the end. Again he has to want to win.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    First off, we need a coach in here the FA's will like...Byron Scott or maybe even Doc Rivers if he leaves his deal. Vinny Del Negro isnt going to help bring any big time free agent in here.

    Go after Bosh and Amare hard....you need to get at least one of them. After you do that, grab a shooter like Mike Miller.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    I just don't see what sort of leverage Toronto actually has in the sign and trade. If they don't play ball, they stand to lose Bosh for nothing. Holding the 6th year over his head is not going to convince him to go to the team he doesn't want to go to. Landing Noah, or any other player on his level, isn't realistic.

    For what it's worth, if Bosh goes to Miami, I could see Boozer to the Bulls just as easily as I see Lee, and I could see him really helping. Ideally, I would feel better with a four-year max, but that might not get it done with teams like the Nets and Knicks desperate to spend dough.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    Doug,

    I want to know how Pat Riley is going to do a sign-and-trade for Chris Bosh.

    All their good players are OLDER FREE-AGENTS, YOUNG KNUCKLEHEADS or HAVE NO DESIRE to play in Toronto. If Bosh sticks to his word, there is NO WAY he is going to Miami via a sign-and-trade.

  • In reply to charitystripe:

    Yep, I hear it every day, every free agent in the NBA is clamoring to play with Ben Gordon.

    I doubt that thought has ever crossed the mind of a single NBA player even once, never mind any of the max free agents.

    Too bad that Detroit used all of its cap space to sign Gordon and Charlie V, otherwise they could have had Lebron and Wade.

  • Doug, I think your closing paragraph/summation says it all. Awfully difficult [to become a top tier team] with their past spedning patterns.

    Miami definitely will be getting one of the quality bigs(Bosh, Amare, or Boozer). Riley will make sure of that so Wade stays on South Beach. I'm guessing it will be Bosh with his high scoring, ability to get to the line, younger age etc. Toronto has been a willing partner in the past, and a sign and trade for Beasley would not shock me but does Miami get back the Raptor's SF/Turkoglu('s contract) in the process? Certainly Toronto doesn't want both unless they plan on playing (Mrs.)Beasley, Mrs. Beasley inside joke from an ancient TV show sorry, as a pure four/PF.

    That leaves Amare as the best bet in my book. I'm glad Doug concurred despite his concerns. You have to go for it after freeing all this bank, and going for it after Bosh and Wade is Amare. Phoenix has a good team, but Nash is getting older by the minute likewise Richardson. Unless Phoenix can parlay some of thier talent into a trade for a second scoring star to play with he and Nash I think he could be exiting for more exciting climbs.

    Do I think a young star who has the look of an emerging superstar type presence with a scoring partner could be very appealing to a guy like Amare? Yes. But with the conservative, somewhat management challenged setting where he'll freeze his behind off for this? Not so sure.

    Really, Bosh as a personality just seems empty to me. And he has been punked/cheap shotted with no response/fight in him. And defensively he simply is Boozerlike in his natural indifference.

    You can raise plenty of criticism's of Stoudemire, but he's not the only one with past injuries that have cut short his time on the court(Wade/Boozer). I think Aamre is a guy who plays to win under the right circumstances, and really should have had a ring that year of the Stern banishment/San Antonio series.

    Bottom line: will the Bulls set the tone, and promptly hire a name coach like Byron Scott to make the situation more amenable to free agents? Probably not. Will they spend over the next couple of years to raise the team to contender status through trades as L.A. and Cleveland has done? Nope.

    Conclusion: say hello to David Lee(and some other second rater say Mike Miller

  • I hate it when that thing cuts off part of what is written - I added I do like Mike Miller as a good outside shooter.

  • I'm starting to think you are right about Lebron to CLE on a short-term deal. It just makes too much sense. I'm not thrilled with the idea of David Lee, but I do think that Lee and Morrow would improve the team, and I like that they sort of match the core age of the team.

    Like you, my top priority is Bosh, but let's say the chips fall the way you are predicting with the big 3; I think that leads to Joe Johnson on the Bulls. He's already turned down a (four-year max) extension with Atlanta. I think he would jump ship.

    I'd also hold out hope the Bulls you use a sign and trade to acquire someone more desirable than the B level FAs, if the A group is gone.

  • I said before that LBJ is the lead domino, which he is, but the critical domino is CHRIS BOSH.

    My belief is that Bosh leads to Wade.

    If I'm John Paxson/Gar Forman/Jerry Reinsdorf that is the guy I'm going after and getting...period, point-blank, bottom-line!!!

    Why?

    I believe LBJ will stay in Cleveland. I believe Amar'e will stay in Phoenix. That leaves Lee, Boozer and Johnson. Lee likes in the NYC, so I could see him staying there. Johnson is a SG, just like Wade, so even if they move Wade to PG he won't make a big enough impact to win Miami a title. And as far as Boozer goes, if he isn't winning in Utah with a loaded roster, then he sure as hell isn't winning in Miami with a weaker one.

    If Miami is stuck with Boozer, then Wade, who says he's all about winning, should bolt Miami for Chicago and come play with Rose, Noah and Bosh.

    BOSH LEADS TO WADE!!!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    How exactly do we end up with both Bosh and Wade? The numbers are not there.

    PS: any sign & trade for Bosh leaves us Noahless and in trouble. At this point, the only way I trade Noah is for Lebron.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    The Bulls won't offer up Noah.

    Gibson, Deng, Hinrich, Johnson and Picks might get it done.

    At least some combination of that.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Come on now. Use your head. If you're Colangelo do you want anything on that list other than picks? I know I don't, especially considering the structure of the Raptors team. If I'm Toronto, no Noah = no Bosh, plain and simple.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    And if I'm the Bulls, I'm not bringing Bosh in with a six year max contract to play center. Sorry, but I'd much prefer Noah on his rookie contract. The reason why adding an offensive-minded PF makes sense for the Bulls is that we've got a defensive-minded center.

    I still think the best move is to pick up Boozer at a reasonable salary (12-15, if he'll accept) and then add a SG. Take your pick of Morrow, Ray Allen, etc., as long as they're not making more than $5/year. Then do whatever you can to resign Miller and you've got an incredibly balanced team.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    CHRIS BOSH (SIGN-AND-TRADE) SWEEPSTAKES:

    I see 3 teams in the race.

    #1.) Bulls - Hinrich, Deng, Gibson, Johnson and Draft Picks
    #2.) Rockets - Ariza, Budinger, Hill, Lowry and Draft Picks
    #3.) Knicks - Lee, Galinari, Chandler, Duhon and Draft Picks

    Outside of those three teams, I don't see any other team with the needed parts.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    The thing that most of you are missing is that Bosh gets to decide who he gets "S&T" to, not the Raptors or the team acquiring him. Thus the Raptors have no leverage to get equal talent back, and any other team making an offer that the Raptors might jump at has no leverage to make the deal happen if they are not Bosh's first choice.

    If Lebron and Wade stay Bosh has all the power in this free agent season, he gets to go where he wants, how he wants it to happen.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    What you are forgetting BIGWAY is that Chicago, Houston and New York are all good choices for Chris Bosh.

    Chris Bosh just doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would screw over the Raptors or Bryan Colangelo.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Those are the players that I believe would be included in some sort of trade package.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Why would Lee be included in a S&T with the Knicks? He's a free agent too.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Problem is the Bulls dont want to trade their players away and gut their talent to get Bosh that doesnt benefit them.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    IF you are Toronto you have no choice, you get nothing or you take what you are offered.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    I would trade Noah if I knew we were going to get both Bosh and Wade.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to jt563905:

    My Scorecard goes

    Bosh - LA
    Lebron + Wade - Miami or NY
    Boozer - Utah
    Amare - Phoenix

    Bulls:

    First, we get Adrian Dantley to coach (seems Adeleman is still signed), then bring in Joe Johnson. We can play Johnson at the SF which makes a lot of sense if you happen to have a HOF small forward coaching. Keep Hinrich at SG for now and you've got a pretty solid perimeter. Send Deng to Minnesota for Al Jefferson and that sews up the frontcourt. Draft Henry and a young big.

    Noah
    Jefferson
    Johnson
    Hinrich -> Henry
    Rose

    That lineup doesn't make me miss Bosh at all. Oh for such a perfect world.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    Again, we don't have to trade Noah for Bosh, we can dump deng on them. If Bosh wants the Bulls, Toronto has no leverage, they either take what the Bulls give them or they get nothing.

    We will not trade Noah for Bosh, guarantee it.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    That's the problem... Bosh has to want to come to Chicago and I hate say it but he probably wont because of D-Wade and the whole Miami scene. He has to want to win. Miami has Wade but after that their is not too attractive at all. Even Shaq had to take a back seat to Wade, is Bosh ready to do that with Wade and Miami. Or he can come to Chicago and be the leading scorer with a much better supporting cast with him. So it all depends on if he really wants to win cause their are still other good team in the east that would be better than Miami if he did go there. Bosh with the Bulls means they are easily one of the top three teams in the east. Lets just hope that he is smart and he sees what we all see in this Bulls team that is ready to win with the right complementary player.

  • Doug,

    How do you see the likely actions on/before July 1 by the Bulls working? Do they call multiple agents at same time or put multiple offers out there and see who bites first?

    Also, do you see a possible S&T with Knicks if we get Lee to send Kirk their way?

  • If the dominoes fall RIGHT.

    LBJ < Cleveland.
    Amare' < Phoenix.
    J. Johnson < Atlanta.
    Boozer < Utah.
    Lee < NYC.
    * Bosh < Chicago.
    * Wade < Chicago.

  • If the dominoes fall RIGHT.

    LBJ = Cleveland
    Amare' = Phoenix
    Johnson = Atlanta
    Boozer = Utah
    Lee = NYK
    Bosh = Chicago
    Wade = Chicago

    If John Paxson pulls off a sign-and-trade for Bosh, then I believe Wade follows.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Your name suits your optimism.

  • In reply to jt563905:

    You get BOSH, you get WADE!!!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I'd be on the phone offering Deng to Toronto at 12:01

  • If we were healthy this season, we are probably a 45-47 win team. Add 6 to that and we're at 50+ wins...I understand what you mean but a 50+ team with a bunch of youngsters as it's core isn't a huge disappointment.

  • RPK,

    The good thing is that the NBA is a player's league.

    If Bosh is into winning, then Rose and Noah should be the selling point.

    Paxson and Forman just have to be smart with a trade. I don't know how much creativity it will take. The players available for trade are Hinrich, Deng, Gibson and Johnson plus draft picks.

  • Agreed on the salaries, but if we're only offering crap like James Johnson, and someone else is offering good drafts picks and/or a player who has done something in the NBA, a team has to consider taking on that extra salary.

  • I am hearing that Phil Jackson might take up some kind of executive position with Chicago. Then he can choose the coach or coach himself for a couple of years. We can then expect LeBron to show up for the Bulls. Is that a fantasy??? I don't know but it is good for discussion atleast. Phil's enemy was Krause and he is not there anymore with the Bulls.

  • I don't know, we had a stretch without our three best players and a 4th starter hobbled. And two of those guys having plantar faciitis limiting them for such a prolonged period... we had it pretty bad. Maybe not as bad as Milwaukee, but they also got the same post-trade surge that we got last year from Salmons (and Miller in our case). Our surge this year wasn't nearly as significant, and I'd argue it got limited by our post-trade injuries.

    It especially hurt because of our lack of depth, but that's not fair game for this comparison. But, when we have a contender, we're not going to have any problems finding capable journeymen who want to play roles for us. So it is something else to keep in mind.

  • You've heard rumors and you're not sharing? Tell us what you've heard!! Why are you holding out?

  • I think he's referring to Lee's unselfishness. Not that Bosh is selfish, but Amare definitely is, and Bosh isn't really unselfish.

    With Lee and Noah, we'd easily have the best passing and rebounding front court in the league. Lee wouldn't be able to draw a big out of the paint as effectively, so it would definitely be a tradeoff.

    I'd rather have Bosh by a sizable margin, but I'd be torn between Lee and Amare if that fails.

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