Sam Smith: Raptors want center in S&T for Bosh

In a hilariously misinterpreted blog post, Sam Smith discussed Toronto's interest in S&Ting Chris Bosh to other teams.   Toronto wants a center to pair with Bargnani, and thus, they aren't interested in David Lee or Michael Beasley. 

The post was picked up by realgm wiretap to say the Raptors were interested in Noah, but this part seems closer to speculation than fact.   The post actually focuses on the idea that the Raptors could gain the most value back for Bosh by trading him for Pau Gasol or Andrew Bynum to the Lakers if they fail to win the title.

Personally, that seems like a better deal for both teams than Joakim Noah going out is.  Would you give up Noah for Bosh?   I love Joakim Noah, but yes.  If it came down to getting Bosh or not getting Bosh then I'll send Joakim Noah out to make it happen.   It obviously wouldn't make me happy, but Bosh is a player who's offensive skills are harder to come by than Noah's defensive skills are.

The only way this could possibly work out well for the Bulls is if the Raptors also took Luol Deng in a S&T leaving us with max cap room to make an offer to Wade and bringing in both guys.  Of course that's the longest of long shots and makes no sense whatsoever for Toronto who really has no use for Deng with Hedu locked in to one of the worst contracts in the NBA.   The one deal that might have some potential would be a Deng/Hinrich/Noah for Bosh/Turkoglu swap, but that's unlikely to leave us with max cap room when it's all done.

So odds are, if we make this trade, we're giving up Noah, and we won't do anything else to free up cap room in the process.   At that point, we'd better hope Brad Miller comes back for the vet minimum again, or that we are able to get a rookie who can contribute in the front court again, because a front court of Bosh, Gibson, and no one sure looks awfully thin.

Sam also noted that the Bobcats are trimming costs a ton and are hoping Tyrus takes the QO so they don't need to pay him big money.   They're likely letting Felton go as well.   Looks like the Jordan era isn't going to be throwing big money around.   Expect the Bulls to get an awesome pick from Charlotte whenever it comes due.


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  • And from what I'm hearing, Larry Brown will be gone either after this season or next.

  • The draft is heavy with Bigs and we could get one in the second round to come in and hopefully contribute.

    Also, we should be getting Asik next year so this should all work out.

    However, I do not wanna trade away Noah. He makes our team aggressive and makes HUGE plays when needed. You cant teach his kind of intesity. I think it would rub off on Bosh as well.

  • f. that.. bring in amare.. im in love with noah and his effort.. this team feels so comfotable with him and taj.. adding a scoring 4 with a bench player can easily make us contend with the top 3 in the east..

    bulls please keep noah..if bosh was a lebron type of player then hell yea i'll trade for him.. but unless we can get a tyson chandler and chris bosh front court with taj, brad & omer asik then our front court could really be good.. but please do NOT TRADE NOAH FOR BOSH...hinrich & deng for bosh?im not trading joakim unless the guy cleary carrys this team with no negatives on him..i.e lebron, nash, paul,dwight & etc

  • I am sorry but Raptors could go to hell. In no way am i trading a part of our cornerstone. Noah is easily the heart and soul of this team and he meshes so well with Rose. We either sign Bosh outright or so be it.

  • In reply to Newskoolbulls:

    Definatly, Noah's already one of the best centers in the league, and he's one of the youngest, I wouldn't trade him for anyone in the league (except maybe lebron or somebody which would never happen), Noah's the bread and butter of the team, he fires our team up, get's double double's every night, and still has alot more potential. I'd rather not get Bosh at all if I have to give up Noah...just as Newskoolbulls said...

  • In reply to Newskoolbulls:

    No deal. Rose and Noah are untouchable in my book. We can talk about anyone else on the team if you like. Trading Noah for Bosh IS an upgrade but not better than adding Amar'e, Boozer or even David Lee without a S&T. Bosh is a great player, but he doesn't replace the energy that Noah brings you. And if you're gonna trade that type of player, especially one you took the chance on drafting that's developed greatly, you'd better bring back someone that makes a considerable difference and an immediate contender. I think Bosh would improve the team, but not enough to make this move a no brainer.

    And from Bosh's perspective, I know you want to capitalize on that extra $30 million but you significantly weaken the team in doing so. It would be different if this move helps us make room for Wade or Joe Johnson (or Manu with the way he's been playing lately) but it doesn't.

  • In reply to Newskoolbulls:

    Deng, Hinrich and Noah for Bosh and Torkoglu is a no brainer!

    Dumping the fragile over rated Deng, the clock eating over rated Hinrich and the long rebounding Noah, a fly weight under the rim who may be as fragile as Deng would be a miracle.

    Bosh is a force and Torkoglu is better than any of those three Bulls!

  • In reply to Alex:

    Turk is not better than those three. He's only really better than Kurt, and even that is up for debate considering that Turk has one of the worst attitudes in the NBA. Hell, if Turk could give the Raptors ANYTHING, we wouldn't even be in contention for that playoff spot right now.

  • In reply to Alex:

    Interesting post. I guess I had always naively thought we'd just end up giving them a draft pick or something. I mean, how much power do they have in this situation? If Bosh decides to leave (whether it be to Chicago, Miami, or where ever), they can't force him to go to any particular team. Regardless of whether Chicago or NY makes a better offer, if wants to go to Miami, they either let him go for nothing, or take whatever Miami is willing to give them.

    What I'm saying is, if he decides to come here, why wouldn't they accept a 1st rounder in exchange for doing a sign-and-trade when the alternative is getting nothing? I really may be missing something, but that's always how I assumed it would go down.

    It's worth mentioning, even if my potentially horribly misinformed view is correct, that Lakers deal still looks great for both of them. If they go to him and say "forget those projects, we can get you on the lakers", why wouldn't he do it?

  • In reply to Greddy:

    Well, the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) is designed to allow a FA's current team re-sign them to an extra year (max of 6yrs instead of a max of 5yrs) and $30 million more than a new team would. So if the Bulls, Heat, Knicks or any other team aside from the Raptors want to sign Bosh, the total contract will be $30 million LESS than what the Raptors could re-sign him to. The only way that Bosh could recoup that $30 mil is for him to re-sign with Toronto be traded to the new trade immediately, thus the term Sign-and-Trade.

    The ability to re-sign a play to a larger contract gives Toronto (and Atlanta for Joe Johnson, Miami for Wade, etc) a bargaining chip and leverage. If these FAs leave without a S&T, they leave a ton of money on the table. If they convince their current team to do a S&T the team can get something in return. A team like Toronto can essentially name their price and the Bulls and Lakers seem to have something that they want. The thought is a FA would have to be REALLY motivated to leave without a S&T.

  • In reply to jamatokwu:

    Indeed, I am aware of this. My question is more in regards to how much it would actually take to convince Toronto to do a "Sign & Trade". I actually don't think they can "name their price". At the end of the day, it's going to be Chris Bosh (and Chris Bosh alone) who is going to decide where he goes. If he really didn't have a preference between Chicago and Miami(NY, etc.), then Toronto likely could say they'd only do a S&T with one to effectively make the decision for him. That said, there's no way he isn't going to pick his destination.

    Not to mention the fact that he's picking his destination at least partly because of the team assembled already. Taking a player (like Noah) away from that team would only make us less desirable to Bosh. He has as much influence in what's dealt as they do. Think back to when Kobe was rumored to be dealt to the Bulls, and (allegedly) refused any deal in which Deng would be sent to LA. Kobe could do that because he had a no-trade clause, but Bosh essentially has a super version of that. No only can he say no to their S&T, but unlike Kobe, he just walk out the door for nothing.

    That's why a deal involving picks always seemed inevitable to me. Players (in as much as I've seen) never seem to have a problem when picks are traded away for talent, regardless of whether or not the picks are more valuable.

    Anyway, like I said, I'm still likely to be missing something if it really would require giving up Noah.

  • In reply to Greddy:

    I agree. Toronto isn't going to pick Bosh's destination but if he wants them to compromise they can influence it. Of course, if another team doesn't have the desired pieces they can bring in a third (or fourth) team to get involved. These are just tactics that everyone has at their disposal to gain their cooperation. Toronto is banking on the chance that they can re-sign Bosh and this extra $30 mil is a big part of that. At the end of the day, nobody owes anyone else any favors.

  • In reply to Greddy:

    If I'm the Bulls I would give up future first round picks and a 2010 first round pick for the Bulls to take back Noah and Hinrich. If the Bulls want to win a title they need to surround Deng and Rose with Wade and Bosh. The Bulls need to clear Hinrich and some other salary to make it happen.

    The Bulls could've hit the jackpot if they traded Hinrich for an expiring contract. If the Bulls could pair Rose with Bosh and Wade that would trump James and his supporting cast.

    Dream Case

    Derrick Rose/Flip Murray/
    Dwayne Wade/Eddie House/
    Luol Deng/James Johnson/
    Chris Bosh/Taj Gibson/
    Joakim Noah/Brad Miller/

    If the Bulls are lucky they will get Bosh to sign without having to do a sign and trade.

  • Interesting argument. I think with all the hype about 2010 free agency, it's easy to slip into the thought process that a signing(s) should make a team an instant contender and not a "fringe contender" with the flexibility to improve in the future. I think a Bosh + Rose tandem is a great one especially considering that Rose is still likely to take another huge leap talent-wise over the next year or two. He's only 21 now and should be a college junior had he not left early.

    Couple that with a remaining talent core of Gibson, Hinrich, Deng and James Johnson and the Bulls are growing into something special and dangerous. Though Hinrich has been in decline for awhile now, he's still a exceptional defender and a solid guard. Deng doesn't get the respect an 18/7 guy should get (4 rebs shy of Pau Gasol stats), but can be a dangerous third option. Gibson and JJ should continue to grow. Gibson into a 15/10 guy and with dedication, JJ into a Scottie Pippen-type player.

    But from a fan perspective, losing Noah hurts emotionally and you would want an immediate payoff that justifies it. Kind of like the C's trading Al Jefferson for Kevin Garnett.

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