Sellers remorse on John Salmons?

Anyone else have seller's remorse on John Salmons yet?   He's currently playing outstanding basketball for Milwaukee, and the Bulls could desperately use what he's giving them right now.   Our biggest problem with Salmons is that we took him out of the position he was so good at and put him in one he's not so good at.

From a big picture perspective, you have to respect the Bulls decision to ensure 2010 free agency participation.   I do not fault them for taking the stance they did, and I would have taken the same one.

Still, I have seller's remorse now.   I knew all along this was a double edged sword, since John Salmons playing well means he's more likely to opt out [in other words we got no benefit], push us out of the playoffs [Milwaukee has jumped us since the trade], and force us to switch draft picks with the Bucks. 

It looks like we might have traded John Salmons to ensure something we would have had anyone and gave up a couple second rounders, lowered our first rounder, and might miss the playoffs because of it.  

Now it's easy to say that the Bulls had to do this in order to maximize the 2010 plan, and there's certainly a large amount of truth to that, however, our 2010 plan would be even better if we had kept Salmons, finished higher in the playoff standings, and then had Salmons opt out.   By moving Salmons and possibly missing the playoffs [or at the least lowering our seed] we've actually reduced our 2010 hopes.

It was always a double edged sword though.  Had they not traded him and had he continued to play poorly, then the Bulls wouldn't have had any chance in 2010 FA.   So the rewards outweighed the risks, it was the right decision.   You place your bets on the highest probability for a good outcome, and I believe the Bulls did that.   However, when the lower probability outcome may happen, it's easy to second guess everything even when you know it's not fair.

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  • What's the point of looking back? What's done is done.

    It's time for "ROBIN" Rose, Vinny Del "Dumb-Bo" and "Dickey" Johnson to STEP-UP, lead this team and produce WINS!!!

  • Salmons does his best when he's new to a team. I wouldn't expect these results here or next year. I mean are you missing TT too? He is putting up career highs with the bobcats. In the end, I am happy with the deals, we got an extra first that could be potentially good and got so much more athletic with players that might be less talented but fit their role better. Salmons and TT really didn't like coming off the bench here and we essentially swapped them, two second rounder for a better fitting version of each, a first and guaranteed max cap room.

  • In reply to TheStig:

    Tyrus is shooting 43.6% on jumpshots with the Bobcats, given he's never been over 40% in his career I think it's pretty safe to say he's just having a hot run right now.

    Salmons on the other hand did play like this last year. You've got to wonder whether we're to blame for not having him play this way this year. He's obviously taking shots at a much higher rate with the Bucks, maybe Skiles has given him the green light which he didn't feel he had from Vinny, and that's helped?

    The biggest problem I have with the trade is the idea that it created max cap space. Salmons will opt out, and everyone will nod their head and say it was his recent play, and the Bulls will get none of the blame for playing it conservative. The only reason we need Salmons to opt out is to get one of the big three, anyone else we could afford with Salmons (or at least we could afford what we should be willing to pay them). Given the chances of Salmon opting out were way, way higher than any of Bosh/LeBron/Wade actually signing here, when you look at how the plan could fail, Salmons was a tiny risk.

    Trading Salmons was a good trade for the org in that they achieved exactly what they set out to do. I just disagree with what they set out to do.

  • In reply to TheStig:

    Salmons had a career year last year. Nothing more. Look at the stats. He'd averaged 14 ppg or less and one three pointer a game. This team beat five above .500 Western Conf. teams with Joakim Noah playing like a monster that Charles and many others said was deserving of being an All-Star. Noah was the one who kept the Bulls from imploding. You take him away, and then don't bring in a 20 ppg versatile scorer for Tyrus, and yet expect to win. I agree Salmons is Not the reason the Bulls are going down the toilet. I also think Derrick's game suffers when Joakim's energy is missing.

    Again, take away MVP(of this team)near All-Star presence in Noah, and don't take the opportunity to get a 20 ppg scorer, but instead a rainy day 2016 No.1 and two bench scrubs? A typical Bulls conservative, crippling move. They blew this trade decision and the playoffs out their ass.

  • I haven't seen the Bucks play since the trade, so I have no idea what position he is playing for the Bucks. However, I keep reading that he replaced the injured Michael Redd, at shooting guard.

    so if he is indeed playing this well at shooting guard, then I am baffled as to what he was doing this season with the Bulls. I think that we all came to realize that he performed much better as a small forward than as a 2 guard. I suspect that he is playing small forward for the Bucks.

    He could not play small forward for the Bulls(obviously) and apparently was incapable of performing as a 2 guard so it was a relative no brainer to trade him. He was providing close to nothin for the Bulls this season.

    I have no remorse of any kind with Salmons being gone.

  • Doug:

    No.

  • I guess I can't see being that upset considering we needed him gone for salary reasons and he wouldn't be putting up these kinda numbers here. In retrospect, it might have been better to send him out west but I am sure we tried. I also don't think it will cost us the playoffs, I haven't looked at other teams schedules but I think at worst it will cost us a seed or two.

    Its amazing that we can't get the most from these guys like others have. If Salmons was doing what he was doing last year, I am sure we would have kept him and sent Kirk out instead. But I get what your saying, it sucks to trade guys and watch them blow up(kinda).

  • In reply to TheStig:

    GMs with a brain will not trade for the pathetic over paid Hinrich> Please see the post below about Kapt Klank.

  • In reply to TheStig:

    It is possible that J. Fish would never have done this for the Bulls. Given the struggles of their backcourt generally, J Fish has been put in an ideal situation. The Bulls had more backcourt depth and could sit him if he struggled for a few minutes and replace him with Kurt or Rose... so he wouldn't have a chance to put up these numbers.

    No remorse here. Good for him that he's taking the opportunity in Milwaukee. Too bad he didn't take advantage of the opportunity he had at the start of the season with the Bulls. I'd do that deal again - might as well go all in for 2010. Bosh or bust!

  • I see your point. However, I refuse to believe that it will be BECAUSE of Salmons, specificially that would prevent us from making the playoffs. That would discount the significant impact that injuries have had on us. Also, Salmons just didnt fit into our offense...he INSISTS on putting the ball on the floor to generate points...as you may or may not recall, I said literally in the beginning of the season that I did not like Salmons, so I may be biased...but I think its going out on a limb to assume that Salmons has the ability to have that much of an impact either against us, or for the Bucks.

    Lastly, lets see him sustain this level of play for an extended period of time...he has not done so his entire career...that being said its amazing how motivated guys are in a contract year...

  • Salmons underachieved for the Bulls this year and is thriving under the tough Skiles. Too bad no one is dumb enough to trade for the clock eating Klank Hinrich!

    Some interesting facts about Hinrich.. from another poster on another site:

    "Of the 74 guards playing more than 25 MPG this season, Hinrich ranks 63rd in fg%. 65th in TS%, and 65th in PER. Which is why, I guess, that despite the Bulls being devoid of offensive options, Hinrich ranks 60th in USG%."

    "Of the 166 players in the NBA playing more than 25 MPG, Kirk...rank[s] 154 in PER, 152 in TS% and 151 in FG%."

    "He is the 98th ranked 3pt shooter in the league. Despite being a "true point" his assist percentage is lower than Joe Johnson, Monta Ellis, Beno Udrih and Allen Iverson."

    "Our starting shooting guard has scored over 15 pts a grand total of 6 times this season. Hinrich has not scored over 20 pts in a single game all year! Not one time."

    "We are paying this guy about $9mil a year for this??? We had chance to trade him for expiring 2 years in a row but we did not. Why is our management so much in LOVE with this guy???"

  • In reply to Alex:

    Alex - Kurt is overpaid, under performs on offense and has little trade value. He is tough to trade this year without taking back a bad contract. On the positive side, he has shown to be a decent starting 1 and his contract goes down next year. If the Bulls can sign a 4 at the start of free agency, maybe they can swing a S&T with Atlanta of "Klank" for Joe Johnson. Obviously, this is a rose colored glasses scenario, but it just illustrates the point - this year doesn't matter and who knows what happens in July.

  • In reply to Alex:

    The truth about Kirk is bad enough, there's no need to make up lies:

    "Our starting shooting guard has scored over 15 pts a grand total of 6 times this season. Hinrich has not scored over 20 pts in a single game all year! Not one time."

    I suggest you look at

    MIN on 9th Jan
    @MIN on 17th Feb

  • I agree, it would really suck. I would have loved to have Salmons kicking ass here and opting out or trading kirk instead if we had the same salmons the bucks have. But it just wasn't the case, we gave him every opportunity and with him being mediocre, I couldn't see him passing on that last year.

  • Boo no!

  • Well....I would of liked to send him west like another poster said, but it didnt happen that way. One thing that does kind of scare me if the switching of the draft picks...say the Bulls dont make the playoffs and the Bucks do...they have the option to take our draft pick. So we would have like the 17th instead of the 12th pick possible. That kind of sucks....but the major thing is the cap room. I would go after these guys in this order.

    1. Bron (of course)
    2. Bosh,Wade,Amare
    3. Rudy Gay
    4. Joe Johnson

    Just like the Bears did, hopefully the Bulls can cash in this summer!

  • Id put Boozer and David Lee at #4 with Joe Johnson as well...imo we have to at least walk away with a bigman this summer

  • No seller's remorse whatsoever. If the Bulls miss the playoffs it won't (necessarily) be because of Salmons. He wasn't playing nearly close to what he did last year and that's probably less because of the Bulls than because of Salmons. Sure we moved him to a less dominant position, but he languished even then. From starting to moving to the bench he left much to be desired. A fresh environment did him good as it did last year. We saw all we needed to see to make an informed decision on him and it was the right one. Based on the way he was playing this year and our plans for the summer, we couldn't let Salmons mess that up. Period.

    If we miss the playoffs this year it will be because of injuries (i.e. Joakim) and guys not consistently stepping up (i.e. Hinrich, Warrick, Murray, Miller, etc).

  • Dough, Still want to bank on Hincrap "Da Glue" as the Bulls best defender? Duly check the defensive numbers for the bulls for:

    Last 10 Games (no 5)
    Last 05 Games (no 20).

    Priceless material....I suspect more sellers remorse on the horizon...

  • Salmons is also playing with a real post presence. Something the Bulls organization has an aversion to.

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