Kevin Martin, Hill, Jeffries and a pile of picks or cap room in 2010?

From Bill Simmons podcast quoted from realgm:

We're looking for elite talent. We could've gone the cap-room route or
we could've gone the route of picking up players who can help us in the
next season and also potentially set us up for acquiring a top guy
going that route.

I think 8 teams are now under the cap where
they can have max room, but I think there are only 4-5 guys to chase,
and some teams are chasing two. We felt with going the other route,
picking up a guy like Kevin Martin, and other assets in terms of draft
picks for the future. That was the route we wanted to go.

What if the Bulls had been willing to trade Jerome James, Tyrus Thomas, and Brad Miller for the package that Houston received?

What would you rather have Kevin Martin, Jordan Hill, and swap rights on the Knicks couple of picks or a shot at 2010.   Clearly the upside of such a move isn't likely to exceed signing one of the big three given the protection on the picks from the Knicks precludes top picks, but the floor is sure a ton higher.

Kevin Martin is a very high quality player on a fairly reasonable, not super long term deal.   He's a trade asset more likely that not.  Jordan Hill hasn't had a phenomenal season, but he's still a high quality big man prospect, and the Bulls would get good chances to move up very high in the draft the next couple years if the Knicks fail in FA.

The one difference between this trade and what Houston did is that the Bulls being a player in FA actually makes the odds of those picks ending up really good far more likely whereas if the Bulls were the trading partner one of the very good viable alternatives to NY would be off the table for players.

Still, when I look at the big picture, it's hard not to admire what Houston did there.   While a superstar signing would still top what they did [meaning we hold the upside scenario], it's highly likely that the reasonably expected outcome favors Houston, and I probably would have accepted the Bulls sacrifice of the 2010 plan to come up with such a successful reasonable plan. 



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  • Houston made a really nice move. Kmart is a very good compliment to their cast and they will be a solid team out west if yao stays healthy. We are more steps away and are actually going to be targeting a star. Houston never really had a shot at one of the top 3, I will take Kmart over a maxed out JJ and they already have a decent pf.

  • Nah... even if we whiff on the big 3 free agents I'd rather have 3 or 4 guys before Martin. Morey can win w/ his cast, Martin and a healthy Yao... I don't think the Bulls are a top-flight team w/ Martin and another (non-Max) big guy. Still there's no tax in TX, they're a well-run franchise, warm weather, good fan base - would have been interesting too see if they could have landed one of the big FA's.

  • Presuming the Bulls don't have a legit shot at Bosh, Wade, or Stoudemire, then yes this might not have been a bad move. But it's tough to accept that incapability to acquire one of those Max free Agent talents when you know other franchises(Miami) is surely going to get Bosh, Stoudemire, or at the least Boozer.

    If I had to take a poll of local and national media I'd be willing to bet they'd view Miami as a likely(odds) destination of landing one of those players. And the Bulls would get way lower odds. Not just because of a willingness to spend over the cap to assemble contender status talent, but also because Miami has shown in the past, the Shaq acquisition for example,
    that they will do what it takes/are capable of making something big happen.

    Ask yourself this? Is Miami perceived as a team that will go at least modestly over the cap again to retool for a contender with Wade, Bosh/Amare, Boozer? Even aside from the cap which franchise would be taken as capable of bringing in star talent? Chicago's version of a monster F.A. acquisition? Ben frickin' Wallace. Case closed. Even if Miami doesn't go over the cap, which I think they will if they can get Bosh, they still have a much higher credibility then Chicago. And let's not use the lame taxes and weather excuse as the Bulls management would like us to buy.

    So yeah, I would have settled for Martin and some high draft picks knowing the Bulls are too cheap and lame to get the big boys. Which is why Doug I think your supposition is valid.

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    There's a lot of back patting going on for the Rockets over the moves they made at the deadline from everybody except some Rockets fans on the boards. They gave up a lot more in Landry than we'd have been giving up. With Landry they looked like an 8th seed, right now they're not a playoff team. If Yao doesn't come back for them (and really, does anybody think he'll play a whole season?) they're going to regret giving up Landry for a long time.

  • Yeah giving up KMart2 in Sacto was giving the keys and car to Evans. The two didn't mix. It was hard for the Rockets to give up such a hard worker in Landry, but the traded helped out both clubs. Adelman and KMart worked good together in Sacto.
    I would have lived to see KMart2 here in Chicago, not much of a ball hog just a post up shooter like Ray Allen, Peja years back.

  • If we were just going to trade our space for Martin, why not resign Ben Gordon? Martin is slightly better and slightly cheaper, but it's not like they're worlds apart. Then we could have traded the assets you list for a PF instead.

    To me even a 1% chance at LeBron James is worth more than Kevin Martin. I don't think trading for him would have been a good move for the Bulls at all.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    A .01% chance at Lebron is worth more than any alternative. You have to do it. If you strike out? Still have Rose and a solid core. Then go to Plan B.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    I don't know, if I agree Doug. The combo of K. Martin + Yao + current rockets isn't going to win a championship.

    IMO Martin is a good but not great player, IMO he is like BG. He certainly can't be the first option on a championship caliber team and I find it hard to believe he would be the 2nd option on one unless the 1st option is a LBJ/Wade/Kobe caliber player (which the bulls don't have).

    So then you have the picks, which are an iffy proposition anyway. Even if the picks turn out good they will take 3-4 years to mature all the while the clock is ticking on D Rose's career.

    While interesting, I would rather be in the position we are in right now.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    It could have turned out interesting. We could have flipped the picks and a filler to the Suns for Amare or at the least gotten Jamison.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Kings wanted to get Kevin far far far away from Tyreke so why would we want him next to Rose? sure his stats are good and he a decent deal but he is a gunner who plays to the beat of his own drum, I rather live on a dream of 2010 Doug.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    It really depends on Hill's development, and the picks. It is a deep draft this year, so the picks are going to be awfully valuable. And I was a big fan of Hill in the draft, and still think he's going to be a good 2nd to 3rd big in a rotation of 4.

    Martin is great all around scorer, but really nothing else. As Rose and Deng continue to improve their defense that might be ok, but I don't know that we can consistently win with that hole in our defense, even with his added scoring. My real fear is that he's looking awfully injury prone for a guy going into what should be the peak of his career. Has he really had the continuity to develop the way he should?

    I think Martin would be a good final piece to add once we have a scoring big between Noah and Deng, but I don't see him as a building block. But depending on how Hill and the picks play out, he might essentially be a throw in. It's hard to argue with that.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    I wanted Amare badly this deadline. Why we didnt try to get him puzzles me. People always mention he has a attitude problem? But where do they get this info? I have never heard or seen something that would say Amare has a attitude problem. He might of been sick of losing a couple games...but every good player hates losing. His legs have been healthy for a couple years now. I would of been just fine grabbing Amare and then trying to find something in Free Agency this summer.

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