Let's over-analyze one game of data; post trade performances

We're sports fans, that's what we do!

The Bulls, Bucks, and Bobcats all won their post-trade deadline debuts.   All three teams got some contributions from the new guys to help them along the way.  Obviously, I didn't watch all three games at once, so we're going to be doing a little box score diving.

Hakim Warrck had 10 points, 9 rebounds on 13 shots with 1 assist, no fts, no blocks, no steals, 2 turnovers.    He probably looked a little better than the statline which wasn't really that impressive.  I expect him to shoot the jumper better in the future.   It definitely wasn't a special debut, but it was about what you'd expect.

He's Tyrus Thomas without giving you the absurd combination of blocks and steals.

Flip Murray had 8 points on 3 of 8 shooting with a couple fts, 3 boards, 1 assist, no blocks/steals.   He hit a couple big shots, and probably also played a little better than his poor statline.   Still, he he was 0-3 from behind the three point line.  Salmons had a ton of off games and performances similar to this.   What remains to be seen is if he can have the big games like Salmons did.

Overall, both contributed to the Bulls win.   They look like low end rotation players, and that's the role they'll be asked to play.   Once Joakim Noah is back, the pair should fit in well as the 7th/8th guys on the team in the rotation.   If one of the two is over their head it's probably Murray who'll have to play as the third guard.

Tyrus Thomas shot 3-9, 3-4 from the FT line, with 2asts, 2 tos, 12 boards, and 6 blocks.   Without watching the game, I can't say how big a factor he was in the Bobcats blowing out the Cavaliers, but I'd imagine he played quite well given he was in their for 30 minutes and the Bobcats beat the best team in the league. 

Certainly, they aren't going to be complaining about their trade.    Though Tyrus did drop this memorable quote in the post game. 

picked up from Chicago a day earlier, got a crash course on the plays a few
hours before the game, but said he "kind of forgot all of them."

What?   Tyrus didn't know the plays?   Of course, who could blame him on his first day on the job, but don't expect this to get better with time Bobcats fans.   Still, I expect Tyrus to play outstanding for the Bobcats.   He's a guy who can play very good basketball when motivated, and a trade is probably good enough to motivate him for a couple months.   Then he'll be overpaid by someone this summer, feel entitled and become a bad contract for the next five seasons. [just a guess]

John Salmons had a fairly typical John Salmons type game with some clutchness thrown in.   He scored 19, but took 18 possessions to get those points.   He managed 1 rebound, 1 TO, no steals, blocks, or assists otherwise.   In general, it would appear that Salmons gave the Bucks something similar to what he gave the Bulls.   Some isolation offense and not a whole lot else.

The Bucks, much like the Bulls, won a road game against a poor team.

So, all three teams won after the trade deadline, Charlotte was the only team with an impressive win though you can only play the team on your schedule, so you can't hold that against anyone.   After one game, it would appear that the trades worked out how we thought they would.

We got poor man's versions of both guys we traded.   So far, the Bulls are1-0 after the trade, and thus, haven't been hurt by that fact.   So far both teams we traded with are 1-0 and were definitely both helped considerably by their new arrivals.  

For the rest of this season, the story will be whether the Bulls can still make the playoffs after the trades they made and how high of a seed the Bulls can maintain. 


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  • Before last night's game I was thinking of Lou Brock. You are probably too young to remember him but he was a young Cubs outfielder with great physical skills who the Cubs traded for a sore-armed right hander, Ernie Broglio. From literally his very first game with the Cards, Brock shined and played many great years thereafter for them and is in the HOF.

    Now I don't think Tyrus will ever get to the HOF mainly because he lacks the overall skills necessary. Moreover, he really is immature and self-centered IMO. I was the original Tyrus hater because of the Portland trade but I will concede to Tyrus fans that he was mishandled by the team.

    Observation- Hakim can play some 4 but I was somewhat surprised how really slight he is. Surprise of last night's game was how well Brad and Taj checked Al Jeff and Love. Those guys are very good and have killed the Bulls in the past. Didn't see too much ink about that.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    I've been a big Tyrus supporter all along. Maybe not supporter so much as believing he can be a very good player, and that it's not too late for him to figure it all out. That we should be patient with him, and enjoy the amazing things he's capable of.

    But enough is enough. I wish him the best, and I hope he gets it and goes on to have a strong career. But not for us, he's caused too much damage on the side.

    I think Cedric Benson is a much better comparison. I'm glad the guy finally got his head straight. I wish he had done it earlier so that we could have been the benefactors, but the Bears just couldn't have been patient with him any longer. And honestly, it probably wouldn't have done him any good, I'm sure it was facing the adversity that set him straight. I hope a simple trade is enough for Tyrus, because he's not about to get cut, and ending up in Europe is tough to come back from.


    If you haven't heard it before, I share it again.


    Is it possibly that the Bulls traded Salmons to the Bucks and Ty Thomas to the Bobcats to help keep the Miami Heat and Dwyane Wade out of the playoffs this year?

    Essentially, Dwyane Wade wouldn't be happy and therefore would leave the Heat for the Bulls...mmm.

    Could that be the masterminded plan of John Paxson and Gar Forman?


    PG - DRose
    SG - Wade
    SF - Deng?
    PF - DLee (Noah's good friend)
    C - Noah

    * That's 3 All-Stars in the starting lineup and money managable at that with the right moves.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    There's a lot of gamesmanship going on between Bulls, Heat, Knicks, especially, so I wouldn't actually be shocked if the Bulls are at least considering that these moves might be zooming the Heat, not that such things were the top priority. Of course, they might also be zooming themselves right out of the playoffs.

    You know, I'm starting to wonder if I even want Wade. Not that I wouldn't nearly crap myself in excitement if we signed him, but I'm starting to think I'd be just thrilled to get Bosh and keep Deng and maybe even Kirk--I certainly don't see spending tons of dough on David Lee as a good idea. If we get Bosh, keep our current team, and if the cap is high enough to allow it, use a few extra million on Morrow/Azubuike/Korver/Reddick or whichever back up guard we can afford, maybe bringing back Brad, Murray or whoever on vet mins, I might just be thrilled. Kirk expires soon enough, sooner than that 2nd near max guy would.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    you dont get it do you .. you just watch highlights and boxscores .. first of all lee aint leaving new york and if he did hes goin to newjersey .. they have money and wont get lebron so they would need to get lee back an sign amare .. chris richard is joakims friend and you dont see him w us anymore so that doesnt matter .. wade rose and deng will equal the worst shooting backcourt for the new decade.. you need shooters to go with slashers .. who they goin kick the ball out to ? another guy whos goina slash when the d already is waitng for them to do such.. deng has to go if wade comes and wade does not want to .. riley will get something done .. just cuz you like the bulls doesnt mean its everyones fantasy .. you rate our team and players super high .. wade doesnt fit and doesnt want to be here .. the only thing we can sell him is you were born here .. we dont need his style for a two guard.. the guys 28 and goes through injuries everyyear and soon will break down .. im not maxing a three year rental .. bosh is our guy kidd .. cut it out

  • The real question is what will Tyrus do 5-10 games from now

  • Hey Doug,

    Very nice review and very informative, Thank You!

    PS:Klank Hinrich still stinks!

  • In reply to Alex:

    20 points to lead the Bulls in a balanced scoring effort
    7 for 12 from the field
    2 for 4 from behind the arc
    4 for 4 from the free throw line

    Hehe, you called him Klank...

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    Single game overanalysis? I'm in!

    I already like Warrick. He's obviously not Tyrus on the defensive end, but he's an adaequate team defender. But on offense he had a really solid 2nd half last night. It's all about bball iq. He moves well off the ball and recieves passes in dangerous positions. When tyrus got the ball i always wondered what he would do about those two guys between him and the rim? Dribble? oh god no!

    When hakim receives the ball you feel something good is about to happen for the team. Plus he had 6 offensive boards. Where did that come from?

    Flip was pretty good. Only jacked up one 3ball that made me cringe. Drove the lane and drew a couple fouls. He can spread the floor and attack the rim so he'll do fine. Good to see the 3 guard lineup back in the bulls arsenal.

    Noticed the bulls stopped bunching up in transition. When these guys run the wing derrick can make them look really good on the break.

    Derrick's quote in the suntimes says it all, "These guys don't have no attitude problems. They just wanna ball"

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    Don't have no? Apparently, he didn't study grammar at Memphis. I certainly hope their academic integrity is beyond reproach. jk--Double doubles justify double negatives.

    Shot at Tyrus? Either way, I kind of like the leadership. Rose is a team guy, mofos.

  • I do think it is odd that we traded with teams that are in our division...and hopefully it works and it knocks the Heat out of the playoffs lol

  • Like it or not, can anyone still say our management lacks, um, stones? So all in they are willing to trade with the very teams who we are competing with . . . hardly conservative.

    We just need that new guys to contribute. Last night, they did. Some nights they may not. Kirk and Taj played like "core guys" last night, and that will need to continue.

  • Not if DWADE is their TOP TARGET....mmm.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    It doesn't work that way. It would be incredibly stupid and misguided to approach trades that way.

  • Doug,

    I have a question for you. It looks like Houston might buy out Brian Cook and New Jersey could buy out a number of guys, including Bobby Simmons.

    Any chance the Bulls buy-out one of their MANY 6'3" and under bench guys and pick up another big before the playoffs?

  • I must be typing in the dark again...haha.

    Let me re-phrase.

    Any chance the Bulls buy-out one of their MANY 6'3" bench guys and pick up a BIG-MAN for the playoffs?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I don't see why they wouldn't pursue Gooden if he's available. I've been surprised how many people are "no way" on that. It's not like we'd be giving him a contract extension; as the 4th big, he'd be awesome. I tend to think they'll just find a way to bring Richard back, though. If not him, someone on that level, a warm body in case of injuries.

  • In reply to muhammond:

    Why would they bring back Richard just in case of injury though? If injury happens then sign him when it happens. If they do sign anyone it would probably be Simmons from Nets. Good 3 point shooter throughout his career at 40 percent

  • In reply to muhammond:

    I was at the game last night- it was exciting to see our new guys in their debut. Here's my observations... Hakim got a lot of minutes due to Taj's foul trouble. Taj was our only offense at the beginning but went out due to foul trouble. Warrick was in there and was really hustling. His first turnaround appeared to go halfway down, but it was good to see the confidence. Murray appeared to have even less reservations about shooting. Wolves played Pavlovic a lot. EVERY TIME he was in the game, the Bulls went right at him. Deng and later Murray got the green light to go at him. They both got a ton of good looks in these situations but neither one was on so they clanked a ton. It would be amusing to look at being that Sasha probably had a great night of defensive FG%, yet it really wasn't to do with him... we just couldn't hit our shots. Warrick and Johnny Flynn were talking and joking around at halftime- I think they went to the same school? Jefferson was BAAAAAAD. He was having his way and abusing our guys, but couldn't hit a shot. Miller was completely gassed out there. There was a point where he tried to get a loose ball and just kind of fell over and stayed there. Both him and Jefferson toward the end would just stay at one end of the court as if they had this understanding "I won't run if you won't". He'll probably need a good week off once Noah comes back! No funny Jim Boylan stories this time, but I did share the elevator with KC Johnson after the game. He was on his phone so I didn't get to ask him anything about the trades...

  • In reply to muhammond:


    I think the Bulls could use another BIG or a taller SG via the Waiver-Wire.


    PG - Acie Law, Jannero Pargo and Lindsey Hunter
    SG - Flip Murray and Devin Brown
    SF - James Johnson and Joe Alexander
    PF - Hakim Warrick and ?
    C - Brad Miller and Jerome James

    With Jerome James USELESS and INJURED, Miller is the only back-up center the Bulls have. That makes Warrick the only back-up PF the Bulls have.

    On the other-hand, the Bulls have 3 back-up PG's and possibly 4, if you count Flip Murray. It might be a good idea for the Bulls to try and buyout Pargo, who isn't happy with his minutes, and add another BIG.

    It's just a thought.

  • In reply to muhammond:

    I managed to catch the post-game interview where Tyrus said "(Larry Brown) got on me but it's okay because I now have minutes to correct it" or something like that. Well Tyrus, Larry Brown will be on you everyday of your life and you'll be wishing Vinny back.

  • In reply to muhammond:

    In terms of SG/SF's, I'm hearing Bobby Simmons, Rasual Butler and Raja Bell could all reach buyouts. As far as BIGS go, the only two names I have heard are Brian Cook and Drew Gooden.

    It's something to keep an eye on.

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