Bulls targetting Brendan Haywood for Tyrus/Johnson?

Per a realgm user who's posted reliable information in the past:

Latest info I got is that Brendan Haywood has been informed that he
could be going to Chicago for Tyrus Thomas and James Johnson.This comes
from a player my guy represents here in Europe and is close to Brendan.

Well Haywood is definitely the best player in this deal if it's true.  This deal also begs for a followup deal involving Brad Miller.    If you are left with a front court of Miller, Noah, and Haywood you basically have three centers and the only legit PF on the roster is Gibson.

It would certainly improve the team though as Haywood would give us more toughness and rebounding than we presently have and Tyrus / Johnson isn't doing much for us anyway.

The downside of course is that James Johnson is the only piece in the trade who's got some potential value next season as it's highly unlikely Haywood or Tyrus would return in a year.   On the upside, clearing out Johnson's salary would save us over 1 million in cap room next season, and maybe that becomes fairly important when negotiating with a FA.

Of course, counter to that, if there is a sign and trade, a cheap rookie contract potential guy like Johnson might be at least somewhat desirable while not a lot else on the roster has any value whatsoever that teams doing a S&T would look for.

Overall, I think I like it.   I loved Johnson's talent level coming out of college, but he hasn't been able to get into NBA condition.   There were red flags about his conditioning pre-draft when he measured in as one of the highest percentage of body fat guys at the combine while he should have been under going the hardest training of his life. 

While I still think Johnson has potential to become a quite good player in the league his work ethic screams that he won't reach his ceiling, so I'm okay letting him go even for cap room + some improvement this season. 

It seems like a feasible deal for the Wizards as well.   They get the only long term asset and get a chance to see if they like anything they see in Tyrus over the longhaul.

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  • So, I'm not the only one thinking about Brendan Haywood on the Bulls then?

    What do you know?

    If I were Paxson, I would still go after Nick Young too. The Bulls could always do a draft day trade to clear cap space or a sign-and-trade in the summer to land a top star.

    The FOCUS should be on the 5th Seed this season and nothing else.

    To Bulls: Brendan Haywood, Nick Young and Dominic McGuire
    To Wizards: Tyrus Thomas, James Johnson and Jannero Pargo

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhk296v

    * That's my personal favorite Bulls/Wizards trade idea.

  • Since we are talking trade. Here's a different Marcus Camby trade idea.

    To Bulls: Marcus Camby, Al Thornton and Mardy Collins
    To Clippers: Tyrus Thomas, James Johnson and John Salmons

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yf4puo6

    I could live with that trade.

  • Just because its that time of year.
    And because it would be the biggest trade in history.... but in all seriousness who would say no to this?

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykh2c9c

  • In reply to sillyrussian:

    The Bulls. I completely understand getting the mediocre to bad contracts off the books, but that's way too much for what amounts to Kevin Martin and cap space.

  • In reply to sillyrussian:

    I think the deal is very interesting from the Bulls perspective. They would get a space eating defensive presence that Noah is just not strong enough to be at this point in his career. I don't care too much about the players that would be going to Washington. Tyrus is a dumb basketball player, and JJ will not be able to play is normal position here, making him a wasted prospect on this Bulls roster. There is no downside for the Bulls, but I don't know why the Wizards would even entertain this trade. They would almost certainly have to pull another trade to make their roster make sense.

    A deal that would send JJ and Tyrus to the Wizards for Haywood and McGuire works for me.

  • In reply to sillyrussian:

    I really think he is going to end up in Portland if they agree to take back a bad contract like Stevetson or James.

  • In reply to Newskoolbulls:

    Portlands only offering Martell Webster who has contract around 3 years 12 million if I'm not mistaken. Tyrus+JJ is the better offer

  • In reply to Newskoolbulls:

    It probably should be noted that Haywood and Thomas average the same amount of rebounds per minute for their careers. Even this year, Haywood is averaging just 1 more board per minute than Tyrus. Thomas' blocks per minute rate is the better of the two as well.

    Perhaps Thomas can no longer co-exist with Vinny but I think those who believe Haywood is some significant upgrade are mistaken. Then again, maybe he'll be one of Vinny's veteran pets and get PT.

  • In reply to borg:

    Just another reason why stats/minute are useless/meaningless, especially career ones.

    Haywood is the vastly superior perfomer, and a legitmate 7 foot center, something we need badly, despite how much I love Noahs game.

  • In reply to borg:

    Unless, we make a trade for Lebron, Wade or Bosh at the deadline I don't see Miller going anywhere, we need his cap space relief.

    I suppose if he is part of a bigger deal that brings back an even bigger expiring contract it might make some sense, McGrady, Allen, e.t.c.

  • Just because its that time of year.
    And because it would be the biggest trade in history.... but in all seriousness who would say no to this?

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykh2c9c

  • Noah can play the 4 slot particularly if there is another post presence....I am a little wary of giving up on JJ so fast but if it gets a brute for the paint and considering how he is a tweener I guess I'd bite...Tyrus needs to go asap. Might even send him home if he cannot be traded this year...too clueless for too long. a hopeless case.

  • Id rather go after Marcus Camby. This way we trade tyrus to the other conference so we only see him twice a year.....

    But i don't wanna give up on JJ yet.

  • Does the trainee Paxson have a plan for the future? Is No-Shot Noah so badly hurt that the Paxson has to get a replacement for him. Why would they get rid of a 1st round rookie so quickly? Maybe Johnson is lazy like Noah?

    There is something really wrong with these Bulls. Dumping Tyrus is understandable because Vinnie can't handle him and it appears that he can't get a 1st round rookie into shape either.

    Sadly Noah has never been in shape long enough to play a hole season! Is No-Shot Noah fragile like Deng, big people with foot ailments is quite common! Is Noah done for the year or is he hurt and too tired to play a whole year for the first time for Paxson and his Laff-A-Bulls?

  • In reply to Alex:

    Maybe Alex is lazy like Mr Happy, that is why the both simply post the exact same thing everytime.

  • I've been seeing this comment lately about Noah being lazy or having a loser's attitude.. and maybe I'm missing something, but I just strongly disagree with that sentiment. If anything, he's the most passionate and energetic player on the roster, and I've seen his work ethic help him turn into a top 10 center in the league in a fairly short amount of time.. so please, explain to me where this notion is coming from?

    If we get Haywood, I don't know how he fits next to Joakim. Neither of those guys are backup centers. They will both want significant minutes. If anything, this trade is strictly made to clear up more cap space. And no, I don't see those two playing alongside each other much. Miller works fairly well with Noah because he can step out and hit the three, and he's an excellent passer. Haywood, however.. cannot.

  • In reply to jmwebb:

    It's really just one or two guys who seem to think Noah is lazy. Ignore them.

  • In reply to WearShades:

    Hey WearShades

    In the 2 1/2 seasons that No-Shot Noah has been with the Bulls, he has played less 3/4 of a season! In the first 2 years, he was not "in NBA shape" until the last 1/4 of the second year. Lazy = Noah!

    This year No-Shot Noah came to camp in shape for the "first time" but he is still a weakling because strong athletic forwards and centers push him around as if this Florida Fairy was on roller skates!

    The fact are easy to see if you look, try focusing on Noah under the rim and you will see that he is still a weakling!

    Will Noah get stronger and better? Hopefully? Will he put in the hard work to get stronger? Maybe? It took him almost 2 years to get in running shape.

    Noah is a role player and he is far from being an All-Star. Let's hope he continues to work out and that the Bulls get a real post up forward and/or center that has real offensive skills!

    Is Noah fragile like Deng, if he is Pax will give him a long expensive contract!

  • In reply to jmwebb:

    Man, Doug- seems your JJ mancrush is fading FAAAST.

  • I don't see why this begs for a follow up trade of Miller. What it tells me if it goes down is maybe the Bulls are worried Noah is out for a while.

  • That was my thought as well. I don't know if the Wizards would even do the deal suggested in the article, but they certainly wouldn't add more to the deal for the Bulls. Too many times in fan trades the fan in question just doesn't consider what the other team would really think about the deal. This is a prime example.

  • At this point Tyrus for Haywood is a steal for us and a no brainer no matter what happens in the off season. Haywood is a keeper long term if he can be signed after the major free agents. He basically takes Millers slot.

    Noah can play limited minutes as the backup 4 when Haywood plays 5, especially against second units.

    It clearly makes our rebounding and interior defense better. I cannot be any worse than the production that we have been getting at the 4, especially off the bench.

  • My biggest question mark with regard to this trade is why are the Wizards so determined to get rid of Haywood, since his contract expires after this season, and they have no other legitimate centers, at least proven healthy ones.

    Really, this trade makes no sense for them, basketball wise or money wise.

  • Ok Tyrus is a butt head. If your going to trade him I can see why. But to trade James Johnson.. You have to be kidding. Tyrus may be a star just not in Chicago. But I believe James Johnson will be a star and he is not a butt head.. So why give up both for Brendan Haywood... come on. Trade Tyrus for Haywood straight up. Haywood is not a star and he won't be. If we trade James Johnson, I'm calling it now Chicago will regret it....Don't do it.

  • I think this is an interesting prospect and would call it another "something for nothing trade" (e.g. Devin for Aaron Gray). Haywood's 33 mpg of solid defense which Tryus+JJ equals ~31 mpg of question marks.

    Still I don't like the idea of trading JJ so early. I think he has a lot of upside and can turn into a great player (I know we've said the same about Tyrus for years but look how Joakim turned out). Giving up on him during his rookie year is pretty sad. Unlike Tyrus, I don't think it would take him as long to figure it out and start making moves towards realizing that potential. Moving him to Washington may even do the trick for all we know. He's only a year older than Rose so his mental makeup still needs some sharpening. But with the good characters that this team has, I think he can go into this offseason with a sense of purpose to not have his sophomore year turn out like his rookie season. Taj, whose already a year older than Tyrus, got lucky with the injury. He had the opportunity and mental makeup to step in and improve through real game experience. The results were painful for the Bulls, but the experience invaluable. While not great, James has earned / gotten only spotty game minutes and has not been able to slow the game down. But if it takes James Johnson (or Hinrich) to move Tyrus to get some dependability back then so be it. I just think we'll regret it later.

    Nonetheless, while getting Haywood would seem like doubling up on dependable centers, it allows Joakim and Taj some relief given their foot problems and gives us a solid defensive presence throughout the rest of the season. Plus, it helps prepare Joakim and Taj for the playoffs. But it does mean we would have to move Brad Miller which brings up the prospect for the McGrady trades you brought up earlier this season:

    Kirk Hinrich + John Salmons + Brad Miller for Tracy McGrady + Brian Cook + Kyle Lowry
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yffqw2u

    Salmons + Miller + Jerome James for McGrady + Lowry
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhoy3qh

    Salmons + Miller + Jerome James for McGrady + Hayes
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzgpum9

    Essentially, Deng can be the last long term contract on the books and free up a ton of cap space with expiring contracts. If we can make it happen without losing Hinrich, we're still in good shape and not mess up the intangibles that Hinrich brings to the team. But with McGrady on the squad, we'd probably end up moving Hinrich back to backup PG but I would consider a motivated McGrady an upgrade over Salmons anyway.

  • Albiet the current outburst from Tyrus, he remains one of my favorite players to watch on the Bulls. He brings energy and toughness that the Bulls soarly need. He will blossom, given consistent minutes. This is just a side show to say so later when he does become a star, we can say, "Tyrus was head case so we had to trade him"...sad to c.

  • imagine if we had chosen tyreke evans and gibson with our picks in stead of JJ and gibson. hindsight is always 20/20.

  • Has Alex watched a Bulls game since '07?

  • Why would the Wiz do this when they have Andray Blatche? Blatche and TT are very similar minus the jumpers.

  • Imagine if we picked Blair and Gibson...we would have a great rookie duo. Probably dont need both of them but its never a bad thing to grab some trade pieces.

    If this Haywood trade goes down....I would love to see the Bulls follow it up with a Miller + Hinrich for Ray Allen and his expiring contract. We would still be good enough to make it to the playoffs and make a push and then in the summer we will have even more money.

    Rose,Pargo
    Ray Allen,Devin Brown
    Deng,Salmons
    Taj,Richard
    Noah,Haywood

    We would have about 25+ mil in cap space if Salmons ends up leaving.

  • Tell us Doug,

    Why isn't Johnson in NBA shape? Is he following in No-Shot Noah foot steps? Will it take Johnson 2 more years like Noah to get into NBA shape.

    Don't you think that Pax, Vinnie, assistant coaches & trainers would push the rookie to work hard???????

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