Bulls lose to Philly, Ray Allen and other thoughts

If Derrick Rose had hit that jumper at the end of regulation, it would have been perfectly okay to cry and remenis of the times where we had a superstar player (two, actually) on our hands. Rose is just 21 years of age and has already become the first Bulls All-Star in twelve years. But the shot didn't go, and the Bulls lost in OT. Such is life. The fact that Rose has the stones in such an early age to take these shots, speaks volumes of his character. Last season Rose received the ball in crunch time and was often good enough to put teams away for good using stretches of dominance.

While Chicago didn't play perfect basketball last night, it still wasn't a trainwreck. Rose got to the line ten times, hit a three, and the bench produced 37 points. The Sixers just executed their plays and muscled their way to a win.

A rumour in Boston has shooting guard Ray Allen connected to the Bulls at the upcoming trade deadline. Apparently the Bulls want to move Kirk Hinrich so they can gain more cap space for 2010. Allen is 34 years old, and wouldn't be a long-term fixture for the Bulls. But his $18.7 million are coming off the cap after the season, and he is still good enough to play big minutes, should the Bulls get into the playoffs. Offensively, Ray Allen fits Derrick Rose a lot more than Kirk Hinrich, with his ability to come off screens and the ability to hit a high-percentage from the outside.

The trade would have to include Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James to make salaries work, and Chicago would likely get a filler in from Boston. When the Bulls acquired Devin Brown for Aaron Gray, they essentially traded nothing for something. Brown is worthy of being a rotation player, whereas Aaron Gray isn't. Because of that, the Bulls can afford to give up two rotation players for Allen, and still survive from a depth perspective.

Bulls guard/forward John Salmons is also being shopped. The 30-year old has a player option for the 2010/2011 season and could opt in, which would mess with the Bulls' plans. Moving Salmons and Hinrich would guarentee cap room for a maximum free agent signing in July. It's still unclear who the target is, but whispers of Atlanta's Joe Johnson keep coming up. Let's hope this is the Bulls' way of making an early April's fools joke on the fanbase.

With two losses in a row, the Bulls are suddenly in for a rough time. They go up against Johnson and Atlanta tomorrow on the road and Dwyane Wade and Miami the following day. Should Chicago lose both, they'd be 23-26 just days after they were 23-22. Currently sitting at the eight seed, it's of major importance the Bulls squeeze out one of these two games.

It's going to be interesting to see how the Bulls fare after the All-Star break. This team has a tendency to turn things up a notch after the February break, and given they're at close to .500 now, March could prove to be a very good month for the organization. All depends on what moves they make on the 18th, however.

Comments

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  • Great article! Frustrating to lose these games, but hopefully the team comes out strong during this next stretch. It's hard not to get behind these trade rumors. I'm not thrilled about the prospect of trading Kirk just to dump him, so getting back Allen is almost a no brainer. You get the cap room, but you also get quality in a need position. I love how management maximized their cap room with the trades last deadline. Let's do it again.

  • Let's not be NAIVE, okay.

    The Bulls got outscored 26-19 in the 3rd Quarter after taking a 6 point into halftime. That's where the game was lost. As Derrick Rose said, "We should have put them away when we had the chance."

    My question is, "Why didn't they?"

    Is that a coaching issue or a player issue?

  • Mortein: any way to make this a post? I found complimentary tickets to the Pacers/Bulls game in Indiana for feb. 9th. http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/05004307F400BCEF?did=bulls0209&camefrom=CFC_BUYAT_skimbit

    thought the Bulls fans in that area would be interested. too bad I'm in SC

  • Talk about BS article. The Bulls do NOT have to include Tyrus and Jerome James to match slaries. Thats just the guys YOU'd like them to include--which, of course makes zero sense unless you're on the cult group that hates Tyrus--which you are. Not only do you want to salary dump Kirk, you'd like to throw in another rotation player AND an expiring contract. Im glad you are'nt the GM because if you think the Bulls are bad now, wait until you dump two rotation guys for one 34 year old SG who is on the decline and is shooting a pathetic 34% from three to match his age. That's worse than both Kirk and Salmons and it makes our front court paper thin. We already know how that worked out while Tyrus was out and you still give him no credit.

    Really, its writers like this guy who give jounalism a bad name.

  • In reply to Scooter:

    To Scooter:

    Um, what?

    Hinrich makes 9.5M while Allen makes 18M. Bulls HAVE to add more salary in the deal for the deal to be allowed under the CBA rules. Also, IMO, the Bulls need to add a little more talent in the trade to make it fair. That is why TT is in the deal. ALSO, this deal is mentioned by more than one outlet. Morten didn't make it up.

    Yikes. Someone gets a little touchy regarding TT

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    The Bulls just need to get into the general neighborhood of Allen's salary. While I don't see why in the world the Celtics would want to trade Allen in the first place, the Bulls could do it by trading only Hinrich and Salmons:

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yk5eouj

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    Uh, no, There are multiple players on this team that could easily make up the salary difference.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    There's nothing wrong with trading Tyrus. But you better get something back long term. Also, if the Bulls are unwilling to even move Kirk for pure expirings, what makes you think they want to throw in Tyrus?

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    You dregs who try to bash the guest host. Like the other mope who called the draft article what was the word "incompetent"? Guys who get that emotional and insulting are really just immature, personally frustrated "fans" with dead end attitudes, jobs, relationships(with parents) etc. And your lame rant is aimed at who? A guy who is helping to keep a nice site like this for Bulls fans running! Wake up stooges.

    As to Ray Allen he's shooting a better percentage from three then oh, say, Kobe, D-Wade, Monta Ellis. Sure that's not their game, but like Allen, they have a Career Record of hitting big threes when you need them. Can't say the same for our buddy Kirk.

    Ray as a rental is scoring 16 ppg on .458 shooting and is not a bad defender himself. Do I like Kirk's attitude and tough nosed work ethic? What true Bulls fan wouldn't. But I will say Kirk is a guy who seems to play better when things are going well. I've seen him look pretty average to sub-par, including defense, when the team as a whole has been struggling. And there are plenty of guys out there like that. The majority in fact. So what does that make him. On many teams, unexceptional. But put Kirk on a team where he has good interior D to support his aggressive harassment on the perimeter, inside threats to free him for set three's and not pull up's, and you've got a very nice bench player on your hands capable of contributing for a Boston or L.A. But as a starter or with a challenged ball club he'll have his rolls and his swoons. And be just an average starting NBA PG when his value could be far greater. Get Kirk with a Phil Jackson interior offensive talent laden team, and someone who demands players like Fisher, Ariza, pick a guy, that they come to a stop and go straight up with their shot, and he'll hit you some threes. You bet.

    But Kirk as a Bull has a definable, limited value. Right now on this current roll his value is up. Before this run the best the Bulls probably get for Kirk is expiring's. That's why he wasn't already traded. If Kirk is a necessity for a future contending Bulls team then you look to move others(Salmons etc.). But I would think a good role player like Kirk can be more easily found then the superstar player they can acquire by freeing up cap space, and moving his contract. As for Tyrus his value as a shot blocker and off. rebound put-back guy is far outweighed by his immature attitude and horribly inconsistent focus. If Joakim and Taj's careers aren't sadly shortened or threatened by injury plantar fasciitis etc. then they have the board guy/shot blockers they need. What they don't have is a big who can score.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    I certainly wouldn't trade all three of Kirk, Salmons and Tyrus for Allen. That's too many rotation minutes for one guy, but I would trade any two of them combined with Jerome James. You can deal Kirk, Salmons and James for Allen and Daniels or Allen, Giddens and Williams. You can deal Kirk, Tyrus and James for Allen and Williams. Even if Allen isn't what he was, you still at bring back useful talent at a need position while clearing more cap room.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    I certainly wouldn't trade all three of Kirk, Salmons and Tyrus for Allen. That's too many rotation minutes for one guy, but I would trade any two of them combined with Jerome James. You can deal Kirk, Salmons and James for Allen and Daniels or Allen, Giddens and Williams. You can deal Kirk, Tyrus and James for Allen and Williams. Even if Allen isn't what he was, you still at bring back useful talent at a need position while clearing more cap room.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    I certainly wouldn't trade all three of Kirk, Salmons and Tyrus for Allen. That's too many rotation minutes for one guy, but I would trade any two of them combined with Jerome James. You can deal Kirk, Salmons and James for Allen and Daniels or Allen, Giddens and Williams. You can deal Kirk, Tyrus and James for Allen and Williams. Even if Allen isn't what he was, you still at bring back useful talent at a need position while clearing more cap room.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    I certainly wouldn't trade all three of Kirk, Salmons and Tyrus for Allen. That's too many rotation minutes for one guy, but I would trade any two of them combined with Jerome James. You can deal Kirk, Salmons and James for Allen and Daniels or Allen, Giddens and Williams. You can deal Kirk, Tyrus and James for Allen and Williams. Even if Allen isn't what he was, you still at bring back useful talent at a need position while clearing more cap room.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    I certainly wouldn't trade all three of Kirk, Salmons and Tyrus for Allen. That's too many rotation minutes for one guy, but I would trade any two of them combined with Jerome James. You can deal Kirk, Salmons and James for Allen and Daniels or Allen, Giddens and Williams. You can deal Kirk, Tyrus and James for Allen and Williams. Even if Allen isn't what he was, you still at bring back useful talent at a need position while clearing more cap room.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    The Bulls can afford one max free agent this summer only if they get rid of both Thomas and either Hinrich or Salmons, or if they keep Thomas then both Hinrich and Salmons need to go.

    The Bulls can become the player in free agency, able to sign 2 max free agents is they get rid of Deng, Hinrich, Salmons and Thomas.

    Thomas is the only player that the can just outright dump, by renouncing their rights to him. Thomas, is just not going to be a Bull next season.

    If just dumping Salaries now is the goal, thomas, HInrich and Salmons can all be traded for Allen. However we will have no rotation left, basically Miller, Brown and Pargo.

    On the flip side, it will be hard to find many takers for the contracts or Hinrich, Salmon, Thomas(restricted) and Deng. So if the Bulls find a legitimate contract taker, they might have no choice but to jump on the deal if they want to make the 2010 plan work.

    Other than Age, I am not sure why the Celtics would want to swap Hinrich for Allen, but if they do, if I am the Bulls I force them to take Salmons also, who would actually be a good fit for them rotation wise. I keep Thomas just because we have no front court rotation depth without him. If we include Thomas, maybe we take back Sheldon Williams(kind of a Dejuan Blair type)to fill out our front court rotation.

    Personally, I am for the all in 2010 strategy, which to me means getting rid of everbody not named Rose or Noah, so I make this move and look to use Deng at the deadline to get one of the 2010 freeagents early, or I salary dump him(if that is even possible with his contract).

    Did anyone notice how Iguodala took over the game and won if for the Sixers last night while Dung just kept clanking away. The sixers are supposedly looking to dump his contract, and if people say the he is overpaid, then what the hell is Deng. I would trade them straight up in a heartbeat.

    Deng is the new Ben Gordon, except his scoring binges only come in the first quarter, and does actually attempt to play defense and rebound. I really cannot stand to watch him play.

    They all have to go, by any means necessary.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    The Bulls can afford one max free agent this summer only if they get rid of both Thomas and either Hinrich or Salmons, or if they keep Thomas then both Hinrich and Salmons need to go.

    The Bulls can become the player in free agency, able to sign 2 max free agents is they get rid of Deng, Hinrich, Salmons and Thomas.

    Thomas is the only player that the can just outright dump, by renouncing their rights to him. Thomas, is just not going to be a Bull next season.

    If just dumping Salaries now is the goal, thomas, HInrich and Salmons can all be traded for Allen. However we will have no rotation left, basically Miller, Brown and Pargo.

    On the flip side, it will be hard to find many takers for the contracts or Hinrich, Salmon, Thomas(restricted) and Deng. So if the Bulls find a legitimate contract taker, they might have no choice but to jump on the deal if they want to make the 2010 plan work.

    Other than Age, I am not sure why the Celtics would want to swap Hinrich for Allen, but if they do, if I am the Bulls I force them to take Salmons also, who would actually be a good fit for them rotation wise. I keep Thomas just because we have no front court rotation depth without him. If we include Thomas, maybe we take back Sheldon Williams(kind of a Dejuan Blair type)to fill out our front court rotation.

    Personally, I am for the all in 2010 strategy, which to me means getting rid of everbody not named Rose or Noah, so I make this move and look to use Deng at the deadline to get one of the 2010 freeagents early, or I salary dump him(if that is even possible with his contract).

    Did anyone notice how Iguodala took over the game and won if for the Sixers last night while Dung just kept clanking away. The sixers are supposedly looking to dump his contract, and if people say the he is overpaid, then what the hell is Deng. I would trade them straight up in a heartbeat.

    Deng is the new Ben Gordon, except his scoring binges only come in the first quarter, and does actually attempt to play defense and rebound. I really cannot stand to watch him play.

    They all have to go, by any means necessary.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    The Bulls can afford one max free agent this summer only if they get rid of both Thomas and either Hinrich or Salmons, or if they keep Thomas then both Hinrich and Salmons need to go.

    The Bulls can become the player in free agency, able to sign 2 max free agents is they get rid of Deng, Hinrich, Salmons and Thomas.

    Thomas is the only player that the can just outright dump, by renouncing their rights to him. Thomas, is just not going to be a Bull next season.

    If just dumping Salaries now is the goal, thomas, HInrich and Salmons can all be traded for Allen. However we will have no rotation left, basically Miller, Brown and Pargo.

    On the flip side, it will be hard to find many takers for the contracts or Hinrich, Salmon, Thomas(restricted) and Deng. So if the Bulls find a legitimate contract taker, they might have no choice but to jump on the deal if they want to make the 2010 plan work.

    Other than Age, I am not sure why the Celtics would want to swap Hinrich for Allen, but if they do, if I am the Bulls I force them to take Salmons also, who would actually be a good fit for them rotation wise. I keep Thomas just because we have no front court rotation depth without him. If we include Thomas, maybe we take back Sheldon Williams(kind of a Dejuan Blair type)to fill out our front court rotation.

    Personally, I am for the all in 2010 strategy, which to me means getting rid of everbody not named Rose or Noah, so I make this move and look to use Deng at the deadline to get one of the 2010 freeagents early, or I salary dump him(if that is even possible with his contract).

    Did anyone notice how Iguodala took over the game and won if for the Sixers last night while Dung just kept clanking away. The sixers are supposedly looking to dump his contract, and if people say the he is overpaid, then what the hell is Deng. I would trade them straight up in a heartbeat.

    Deng is the new Ben Gordon, except his scoring binges only come in the first quarter, and does actually attempt to play defense and rebound. I really cannot stand to watch him play.

    They all have to go, by any means necessary.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    THIS JUST IN:

    Joakim Noah is being SHUT-DOWN thru the All-Star break.

    http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/bulls-noah-shut-down-till-after-all-star-break.html

    That's not good. Time for a trade.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    THIS JUST IN:

    Joakim Noah is being SHUT-DOWN thru the All-Star break.

    http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/bulls-noah-shut-down-till-after-all-star-break.html

    That's not good. Time for a trade.

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    where is hell is doug

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    where is hell is doug

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    i think tradinq for allen automatically means we'r in the driver seat and pushing for chris bosh hard..

    rose
    allen
    deng
    bosh
    noah

    with moving hinrich,salmons,and jerome james we can sign a max and a deep bench and keep a sharp shooter with championship experience next to rose..

    add in the fact that with a deep team like that with only one piece missing and thats at the four..how can bosh say no?

    deep team,best 5 in the east,big name coach,big market and a all star point guard whos top 5 in jersey sells..how can bosh say no if we get allen?

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    i think tradinq for allen automatically means we'r in the driver seat and pushing for chris bosh hard..

    rose
    allen
    deng
    bosh
    noah

    with moving hinrich,salmons,and jerome james we can sign a max and a deep bench and keep a sharp shooter with championship experience next to rose..

    add in the fact that with a deep team like that with only one piece missing and thats at the four..how can bosh say no?

    deep team,best 5 in the east,big name coach,big market and a all star point guard whos top 5 in jersey sells..how can bosh say no if we get allen?

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    i think tradinq for allen automatically means we'r in the driver seat and pushing for hard for chris bosh..

    rose
    allen
    deng
    bosh
    joakim

    with moving hinrich,salmons,and jerome james we can sign a max and a deep bench and keep a sharp shooter with championship experience next to rose..

    add in the fact that with a deep team like that with only one piece missing and thats at the four..how can bosh say no?

    deep bench for money on one max player,the best starting 5 in the conference,a big name coach,a big market and a all star point guard whos top 5 in jersey sells..how can bosh say no if we get allen?
    its just name and topic to bring bosh to a home in the chi..

  • In reply to Mattchoo:

    i think tradinq for allen automatically means we'r in the driver seat and pushing for hard for chris bosh..

    rose
    allen
    deng
    bosh
    joakim

    with moving hinrich,salmons,and jerome james we can sign a max and a deep bench and keep a sharp shooter with championship experience next to rose..

    add in the fact that with a deep team like that with only one piece missing and thats at the four..how can bosh say no?

    deep bench for money on one max player,the best starting 5 in the conference,a big name coach,a big market and a all star point guard whos top 5 in jersey sells..how can bosh say no if we get allen?
    its just name and topic to bring bosh to a home in the chi..

  • In reply to Scooter:

    Ray Allen makes $18.7 million, and the Bulls would like to stay under the luxury tax. It is necessary to include those two, unless you build a package around Brad Miller. Since the Bulls aren't doing that, they're left with Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James as options.

    ..unless of course you want to move Derrick Rose instead so he can take the salary slot of Tyrus Thomas ;)

  • In reply to MortenJensen:

    Actually we could trade Hinrich, Salmons and Tyrus for Ray Allen straight up or add a throw in say Sheldon Williams.

    Obviously the Celtics have to want Hinrich more than they think they need Allen. Salmons would fit as a sub on thier team, and Thomas is a no risk audition.

    I don't see the Celtics wanting needing Hinrich that bad, but they might go for this deal since they are only "stuck" with Hinrich after this season, and Salmons if he opts in.

  • In reply to MortenJensen:

    Sammy great post...Kirk is solid yes, but i would love to see him gone because that contract could really help us out this summer. Ill trade for Ray Allen no problem.

  • In reply to MortenJensen:

    Scooter pie is a lil touchy no?

  • In reply to MortenJensen:

    Scooter pie is a lil touchy no?

  • In reply to MortenJensen:

    Scooter pie is a lil touchy no?

  • In reply to MortenJensen:

    simmer down there scooter pie...yeesh

  • fb_avatar

    It's really a shame how Tyrus isn't being used properly. In a game like yesterday when the Bulls are getting pushed around at the basket it would be nice to see Tyrus get some real minutes just to add some intimidation in the shot blocking department.

    Tyrus is definitely on the table though, especially since we probably lose him next year anyway. Of course, to make salaries work we could offer Salmons instead since Boston really needs to get rid of that bum Pierce.

    I want Kirk outta here! In a tight situation he can always be counted on to whiz on the carpet (game 6, boston series, missed layup, ring a bell?). Worse, while he's the shooting guard teams can get away with defending Derrick with their shooting guard and putting their pg on hinrich. You need a SG that'll force teams to play Derrick with their PG or you're not fully exploiting his matchups.

    Did I mention I want Hinrich gone?

  • fb_avatar

    It looks like the only filler Boston would have to offer is Sheldon Williams. Well, he's a body at least.

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