What is Chris Bosh worth to you right now?

It's highly unlikely that Chris Bosh is traded at the deadline this year.   At least, I think it's highly unlikely, perhaps the Raptors will prove me wrong.   However, there's a danger for both sides in the trade.   The Raptors are obviously going to lose the most talent and not get back anything equivalent, losing their opportunity to build around Bosh.   The other team is going to take over Bosh for half a year and then have to worry about whether he'll bolt in the summer.   Bosh won't sign an extension right away, not when he can get an extra year this summer.

So that being said, what would you give up for Chris Bosh right now, knowing that if you get him right now and the team stinks that he'll likely leave us for Miami in the summer.

Definite No's for me:
Derrick Rose

Maybe's for me:
Joakim Noah

Definite Yes's for me:
Everything else

That's right, to me, the interesting debate centers around would you include Noah in a package for Bosh right now.   This isn't to say that Noah is such a hot ticket item that the Raptors would swap the two straight up.  He's not.    However, he's the only long term valuable piece on the roster outside of Derrick Rose to me.

If you traded Deng and Hinrich for Bosh and Bosh left, then you could rebuild with that cap room.  If you traded Salmons or Tyrus then you'd figure they were going to leave anyway.   If you gave up Johnson, Gibson, future picks, or Asik, then you'd be losing out on a generally low ceiling younger player.

Those are all things you could live with.

If you trade away Joakim Noah and come up empty handed then you've actually lost a piece of your future.   Noah's cap hold isn't big for the next year, so you aren't gaining any immediate cap advantage either.   You're losing someone whom you hope is part of the solution. 

Do you do that for a guy who might not come back?  If you knew Chris Bosh was coming back, it'd be a no brainer.   It's not a comparison.

The end answer to me depends on how you answer these questions:

"How likely is Bosh to stay if we have his bird rights but miss the playoffs?"
"Is Chris Bosh worth the full 6 year max contract?"
"Are you willing to go into the luxury tax in a few years?"   

If you believe the answer to the first question is likely, then you absolutely do the trade.

If you can answer yes to the second question then you absolutely do the trade, because I think the extra money is enough to push him over the edge even if things don't immediately look good [or in other words I'm sort of answering the first question with the second question, I cheat like that].  

If you answer no to the money, but answer yes to the tax then you still do the trade, because if you're willing to pay the tax then you can overpay Bosh who will absolutely improve your team's fortunes. 

Ultimately, I'm not sure Chris Bosh is a 20+ million dollar a year player.   I'm also fairly certain the Bulls aren't paying the luxury tax.   Still, I take the chance.   I take the chance on greatness, because getting Bosh at the deadline may not work out, it may make things far worse, but it has the potential to make you far better.

So anything but Rose for Bosh is what I'm putting on the table.   Stupid as it seems, I just needed to think about it. [side note, if we call up Toronto and say anything for Bosh but Noah, they'd say no].

Comments

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  • First off, if the Bulls do trade for Chris Bosh it has to be contingent on him signing here long-term.

    Secondly, this is a much better, more realistic and more fair trade offer, then those BOZO's at THE SCORE can come up with.

    To Bulls: Chris Bosh and Sonny Weems
    To Raptors: David West, John Salmons and a #1 Pick
    To Hornets: Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James

    Now, tell that wouldn't be an EXCELLANT trade for each team, assuming Chris Bosh wants out of Toronto.

    Don't the Bulls need a top-notch PF and a younger SG? Wouldn't Toronto like an All-Star PF, a solid role player and a #1 Pick for Chris Bosh? Doesn't New Orleans have to cut salary? Couldn't Tyrus Thomas be a good fit with Chris Paul back in his home state? Haven't most or all of those guys been mentioned in trade rumors?

    YES on all accounts.

  • I agree on Noah being off limits. You need to pair Bosh, Boozer, or Amare with an equally good defensive minded frontcourt player. Noah is that player for us. I think it is short sighted to think that we can just pickup that sort of player for the mid-level exception in the off season and they will be able to replace what Noah brings to the table.

    None of the free agent PFs have the elite talent (ala Lebron) where you can put them next to anybody and the team is automatically a contender.

  • If I am the Raptors, getting Noah, TT and expirings would be darn good value for Bosh. I think both Noah and TT are good fits with Barngarni.

  • (Sighing) OK, you think teams really want Tyrus Thomas? I'm not ripping on anyone, but I am so tired of this. He's in his fourth season, and he's averaging 7.8 ppg and 5, count em', 5 rebounds. Guys, come on. Tyrus, largely do to his attitude and lack of court sense, negates the value of his sometimes impressive shot blocking, rebounding, and scoring presence. Any G.M right now who think Tyrus is a valuable piece better have the ghost of Pat Riley or Phil Jackson coaching him to keep him ingrained in his role and duties on the court. Otherwise his athleticism and long ass wingspan is just a waste for the majority of the games he plays.

    As for Bosh, same thing really. Anyone who has watched him defend knows that his presence and effort largely are a joke. To be part of a contender or of franchise value you have to be able to play both ways or your value on one end is negated on the other. If you haven't seen the play in Boston where Paul Pierce flew to the basket, purposely stuck out his knee to paste Bosh in the stomach, and Bosh collapsing to the floor. Then Pierce scowls at him, and gives exaggerated hand gestures like, "Hell yeah! What you gonna do about it punk." I know Pierce isn't like that all the time, but he has shown that bad boy Celtics persona at times. Bosh just laid there and did nothing to respond. He's going to need a good defensive coach and a character reaching guy Larry Brown, Phil, Riley(retired) whoever if he's going to be of real franchise value.

    That said, if we brought in the right coach to work with him(and Derrick), then I'd throw in everything but the kitchen sink(Rose) to get him.

  • No Bosh Trades, Bulls Risk Averse

    The Chicago Bulls are very conservative and profitable. They have no incentive to take a trade risk in mid-season that brings them nothing in profits.

    Reinsdorf and company will wait for the end of the season and summer to make their moves.

  • In reply to rkraneis:

    I agree. Why would anyone for that matter send anything of value for any of the 2010 free agents midseason, when they can't be inked long term until the summer.

  • In reply to spaceheat:

    It's called communication. They need to get some kind of assurance from the player or his agent that he wants to be here long-term.

    I think Chris Bosh and Henry Thomas would give that to the Bulls.

  • In reply to spaceheat:

    You make the trade for Chris Bosh, if you can, and then find a way to add Wade as well. That lines the Bulls up for another DYNASTY.

  • In reply to rkraneis:

    I would much rather take my chances in the summer of 2010 to be honest. If that means we get Boozer (at a no-max deal) instead of Bosh, I'd rather have Noah/Boozer than just Bosh.

    Plus, there's an entirely different way of looking at it. Chris Bosh would be more inclined to sign with Chicago if Joakim Noah is on the team, than if he isn't. Noah is a big piece and teams/players are taking notice.

    If he wants that sixth year, he can attempt to force a sign and trade with Toronto, where we give up a 2nd rounder or perhaps James Johnson if Toronto refused to assist. That way Toronto doesn't leave empty-handed, Bosh get his sixth year, and we get Bosh while keeping Noah.

    So I'm at the point where I think we should try to get him in the summer. Of course, if Toronto calls and asks for Hinrich and John Salmons, you better believe I'll take it. But I am kind of tired of seing assets leave our hands. Which would be the case if Noah is moved.

    For once, I think the Bulls should try to have their cake and eat it too. It's been a while.

  • In reply to MortenJensen:

    I agree. The way I see it now, the priority should be to free up as much of Kirk's cap hit as possible, Salmons to, though if he did opt in, and we pick up a FA from a team over the cap enough that losing that player would not result in equivalent capspace (i.e. Joe J, Lebron, and Bosh, but not Wade) throwing in Salmons + cash + other sweetners shouldn't be a deal breaker.

    I see two major holes to fill on the roster: A scorer/creator and a post player/pick and roll finisher. Ideally you'd like to get two guys to fill those roles.

    Lebron/Bosh, best pair, Joe Johnson/Boozer etc.

    It's hard to choose between the two, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls go for the scorer/creator first over the post guy.

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    In reply to MortenJensen:

    I think that Morton's got the right idea; except I like Millsap instead of Boozer.

    Blowing up the team now is a big mistake since the best way to increase Chicago's leaverage in drawing any free agent in the offseason is to get to the second round of the playoffs, period. And honestly I don't see any of the big 3 coming here and I'm fine with that. With everybody and his cousin lining up to go all or nothing on a contract that's either going to be a godsend or an albatross that's going to leave a bunch of quality players out there who can be had with a lot more future flexibility.

    My gut says we walk into next season with a quality power front court addition at non-max money...ideally Millsap even though I realize the deal is complex. We have to wait a bit on a 2-guard. We're probably better off passing on the max deals since we're massively underproducing at two positions, not one.

  • In reply to MortenJensen:

    i wonder if a lot of people arent doing now what the org. did in 07: get too attached to players who are young, good, but not the kind of players you call untouchable. i like noah but i wonder how valuable he really is. is his defense, rebounding, and passing good enough to offset his lack of range and offensive potency? its worth considering that the answer might be "no". noah has a negative Roland rating this year (the sum of a teams +/- when a player is on the court and the teams +/- when that player is off the court) and according to 82games.com his average opponent outproduces him (that is, registers a higher PER). im not saying noah is not good, but i am saying he should be tradable, especially since his trade value is likely high and he could be used as bait to get better player(s) or to get out of bad contracts.

  • In reply to MortenJensen:

    You make a good case OlRoy. I can see both sides. Noah being untouchable probably quashes many good trade opportunities. On the other hand who's going to want to come here if we give away our second best player? If somehow Joakim can miraculously add say another 15 pounds including on his lower body so he doesn't get rooted out/off balance by the true bigs, he could become a top two or three Eastern Conf. center. And that includes some actual post moves/instincts with more empowerment by his new strength/leverage. I still say the right coach needs to be brought in to turn Bosh(and Rose) into a franchise player who doesn't give it all back on the defensive end. I think everybody deep down knows Vinny is not that guy, but regardless everybody also would like to see Bosh in a Chicago uni.

  • In reply to rkraneis:

    At this point, I wouldn't make the trade. I want Bosh on this team very badly, but why trade half the team to get him for half a season? He may walk in the offseason. I think the Bulls would be the best place for him and believe that the Bulls have the best shot at him. If he leaves Toronto, it will likely be via a sign and trade. That means the Bulls can give him the money he wants (I would pay the max) and possibly send them Deng as part of the deal. That leaves some flexibility for the Bulls while scoring the best you big man available this offseason.

    Someone is going to give Bosh the max this offseason and I would prefer if it is the Buls

  • My point was that Bosh is not an elite talent like Lebron or Kobe. You can surround Lebron with role players and contend. Not necessarily win it it all, but at least your in the picture as a threat. Surround Bosh with role players and you are .500 or less.

    My thinking is that the pairing of Noah and Bosh in the frontcourt should be the strategy. If Noah is dealt, then you would have to insure that another PF/C with his skill set comes in to take his place. I am guessing that would be difficult.

    I agree that adding Bosh at PF does not make the Bulls an "automatic contender". but it should certainly solve the starting frontcourt. The Bulls would only have to acquire a backup veteran center in addition to Bosh.

    Your big three will be at the PG, PF, and SF spots... and then you have defensive minded players at the SG and C spots. Granted, it would be nice to upgrade the SF position, but that may have to wait for future years.

    I am not saying this guarantees that we contend. I am just saying that I think Noah would be the perfect complement to a scoring PF... ala Ben Wallace next to Rasheed Wallace.

  • exactly people dont understand that..if were in a win now mode..then marcus camby next to bosh is a better fit..he can stretch the court even more becuase he has a mid range game and is def the better defender still to this day..3 years of camby would bring us the exact same of joakim..noah with hinrich,jj,and a 1st or maybe less than that can bring bosh easily..my problem...theres no way bosh deserves a max contract..i strongly believe a franchise changer only should get that..and those are only wade and lebron..but wade will be the next arenas w.o the legal problems..and isnt a fit next to two cant shoot but slash players...lebron is the only max contract deserving player in 2010

  • i say trade noah and tyrus bring in bosh and camby...sign byron scott and bringscores off the bench..and shooters alonside derrick rose....by the way..doug creat a post making everyone vote in derrick into the 2010 all star game..arenas wont make it becuase of suspension...a.i and ray allen are ahead of him and so is vince carter...that is a crime..derrick should be w wade in the backcourt and dwight in the front..i wanna see what derrick looks like along them...=) plus the kid is deserving to go..and we need him to represent us and take that star step and build more confidence by going...derrick 2010 all star!

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    please doug open up a post encouraging people to vote and put in the link...if he goes..we would def look much more attractive and he would feel he is the guy and will push himself harder than ever because he knows what kind of level the bar is set at...just please doug..help this kidd get in

  • You have to have an idea that he would want to be here long-term. I'm guessing he would.

    David West isn't any good? Do you watch Pro basketball or just blog about it? Just curious, because he is a former All-Star, who is capable of puting up 20 points on a regular basis.

    In regards to your comment about the Hornets, I guess you don't watch or follow pro basketball all that much. In case you were unaware of this, New Orleans is paying the LUXURY tax. Therefore, one of their big contracts needs to go. I doubt they want to get rid of Chris Paul. Plus, Okafor is virtually untrade-able.

    Come on Doug. I thought you knew basektball more than that. Take a break from blogging and learn the game first!!!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    That 3-way trade I suggested makes alot of sense, across the board.

    The Bulls need a top-level PF. They get that in Bosh. According to the Raptors GM, they want an All-Star level PF, a solid role player and a #1 pick for Bosh, if they decide to trade him. They get that in this deal. You can go look up the interview online. The Hornets need to cut salary. West is the logical choice.

    Doug, you need to follow the NBA game a little bit more closely, I would say. Don't just watch Bulls games, but try reading other articles or listening to radio interviews for input.

    It helps to get it straight from the person, instead of just GUESSING or SECOND-GUESSING as you so often do.

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