Watch Kirk closely against the Celtics tonight. We all know what he does on the defensive end-he'll scrap and grab, get in close, probably get blown by once or twice and definitely will give up a foul or three. But I'm more interested in what he will do on the offensive end. Will he bring the thrust Vinny mentions every time he praises Kurt?
I'll tell you a secret. When I squint at the television really hard, that 12 becomes a 3. The way Kirk is playing now is potentially a preview for what it would look like if Dwyane Wade came back to Chicago.
The return of Tyrus Thomas gave the team a boost, but I think the adjustment with more impact has been the decision to put Kirk in the starting lineup over Salmons. With Tyrus back, the team has 8 NBA players who may or may not show up on a given game, plus Pargo and James Johnson. When Tyrus, and then Kirk were out of the lineup, that 8 went down to 6, and you had to have most of those guys step up for the team to have a chance. Derrick was hurt, Salmons was struggling, and Brad Miller, at this stage in his career, doesn't bring it every night. Tyrus has given every one a little more breathing room, and when he is on, he helps the team win, but he still has his own consistency issues, to say the least.
Kirk starting has been different. I think starting with another offensive playmaker has really allowed Derrick to be aggressive and look for his own shot to a higher degree knowing Kirk will be looking to get the front court involved as well. Beyond James Johnson and Brad Miller, all the Bulls frontcourt players have a similar game-they look good when they are set up off the ball and can finish a play, but struggle to make offense for themselves. When Kirk and Derrick are out there together, two guys are making things happen-Derrick providing initial disruption with his speed off of the pick and roll, and Kirk extending that event on the weakside with the ability to exploit a compromised defense by either taking an open three pointer or running a play with the big man on his side of the floor.
Salmons suffered in this regard. So much of his offense is based on hesitation and setting up his defender that his tendency to hold onto the ball allowed defenses to reset. He seems to have found a better groove coming in off the bench looking to score, but he hasn't been a facilitator since he came to Chicago. Whether it's the system or the player, that part of his game has been lost.
This is what I see, but I might be wrong. However, there are some numbers out there that back me up. Kirk as a starter in nine games is averaging 11.4 ppg and 5.8 assists in 32 minutes versus 8.5 and 3.8 in 29.3 as a reserve. Joakim Noah, a bellwether for team play, has averaged 13.1 ppg over that same stretch, versus 10.3 ppg for the over 27 games he has played this season. Most importantly, the team is 6-3 over those nine games. The upcoming road stretch should show whether the team has made any strides or just gotten hot for a short period at home.
Be that as it may, I think I'm making more of a case for the role Kirk is playing out on the court versus Kirk as player. This discussion is more about the team I want to see next year than what is happening out on the court now. I think the Bulls will push to move him for expirings before the trade deadline, and I will understand and applaud the move if they do.
Kirk is making the case that this team needs a second facilitator out on the court. The New Orleans model of a superstud PG and finishers at all other spots on the floor won't cut it with Derrick Rose. A second guy who can attack from the outside, handle the ball and has the ability to run the pick and roll is important to put next to Derrick, and may be one of the reasons why we've heard Mike McGraw report that Wade is number 1 and Joe Johnson is 1a. I get where this is coming from. With the mix of guys we have, and Luol Deng signed longterm, someone from the scorer/facilitator camp (Lebron/Wade/JJ) is a higher priority than a big man finisher (Bosh/Amare/Boozer).
Add the big man first, and you run the risk of becoming New Orleans with a lesser point but a better big man, a good team, but a monoculture pick and roll team you can stop by attacking the head of the snake. A Rose/Wade tandem is harder to stop because teams don't practice to stop two elite attacking guards the way they practice to defend the pick and roll. Deng historically has been a 3/4: his splits at 82games.com have shown he thrives as a small ball 4, and a lot of the things he gets knocked on as a 3 (blow-by ability, lack of 3-point shot) are no longer weaknesses at the 4 spot. If you can move Deng as part of the sign and trade package to get a big man, the entire equation changes, but if you can't I think the instinct to add a facilitator first is right. Rose/Joe Johnson/Deng gives you two of your main 3 able to create for others. Rose/Deng/Bosh still has all the playmaking pressure on Rose.
I've heard Rose and Wade couldn't play together, that the team would be a hot mess, and that Rose and Wade would get in each other's way. Try looking at the way Rose and Kirk play now. Try imagining Wade in Kirk's place. Would he be able to get the job done? For me, anyway, the answer is yes.
Filed under: Uncategorized
Tags: 2010 plan, chris bosh, derrick rose, Dwyane Wade, joe johnson, kirk hinrich
FYI:
There might be something ready to go down with Chicago and Portland involving Kirk Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2ffeatures%2frumors
I could see something along those lines happening, good pick up. I was thinking of places that could value Tyrus as more than an expiring contract and Portland was definitely on that list. Should be an interesting trade deadline for sure.
I guess you quit reading before the end, huh? The part where he says that this isn't about Kirk at all, but about the team needing a second playmaker and that's why DWade should be the #1 target....
Also, there are many far worse players in the NBA, and many far worse contracts. Yes, he has played poorly this year (although he is playing a lot better lately), and yes his contract is far from great, and yes, the Bulls would likely be better off allocating his salary much differently - but seriously, the amount of hyperbole over Kirk gets old. He's the logical player to move given his best position and salary, but the Bulls could be far worse off than having him on the team.
I would welcome Wade with open arms but we would need a lights out three point shooter at the three and a decent one at the four to make us really work. If Peja was younger and played D he would be perfect. JJ can become that guy if we give him seasoning. He has the range, all he needs is the confidence.
Anyone see this from Chad Ford: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-0910? Here's an excerpt on Kirk and the Bulls:
"7. Kirk Hinrich, G, Bulls
The Bulls need to move Hinrich for an expiring contract in order to have a realistic shot at making a pitch to both LeBron James and Chris Bosh this summer. Can you imagine a team with LeBron, Bosh, Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah? John Paxson can. If Bosh isn't traded before the deadline, you have to believe the Bulls have a good chance to get both.
However, trading Hinrich won't be easy. His productivity has really fallen the past two years, and he still has two years and $17 million left on his contract. Bill Simmons swears the Celtics will be interested. But that's a lot of money for a backup point guard."
Lebron and Bosh? I think Ford just became the biggest Bulls homer I know.
I don't think that Hollinger is a homer, I think that he realizes that Reinsdorf has to realize that the Bulls cannot afford to make a half ass effort in the upcoming free agent season. This is a make or break moment for the Bulls, they have to hit a homerun.
The only homerun is signing Lebron first and anyone of the other guys second.
My gut feeling is that the Bulls know this and are not making any smaller moves now to maintain the ability to pounce on a bigtime trade at the deadline while still allowing them to go after Lebron in the summer.
Their is only one guy out there not named Kobe who can bring the kind of impact that Michael Jordan had, and that is obviously Lebron. I think that reinsdorf knows this better than anyone else.
We need to maintain tradable assests until the trade deadline, and the create massive and maximum cap space at that time.
Again, I repeat we should be going after McGrady's expiring deal.
So the Bulls are positioning themselves to sign two max free agents? LOL
6-3 over those nine games. So 6-3 is a hot streak??? Even when it included a three game losing streak.
All this Kurt bashing is funny. I mean everyone who follows the Bulls at all agrees that he needs to be moved. But we didnt have DRose when we signed him so looking back that far it made some sense. It was like he was picked over BG or anyone...he came first and needed to be resigned first. I like Kirk but understand he isnt earning his money etc. However this Kirk is white so the Bulls wont trade him thread is ridiculous. Anyone implying that prolly has a lot of excuses at play in their own life.
I don't care what anyone says but Hinrich is the best back up PG in the NBA hands down...
...o'yeah and since Gilbert Arenas just got charged with felony gun possession, i believe the chances that Hinrich goes to washington or washington comes to pursue him just went up drastically.
Hello Caron Butler?!?
I don't care what anyone says but Hinrich is the best back up PG in the NBA hands down...
...o'yeah and since Gilbert Arenas just got charged with felony gun possession, i believe the chances that Hinrich goes to washington or washington comes to pursue him just went up drastically.
Hello Caron Butler?!?
To Wizards: Kirk Hinrich and James Johnson
To Bulls: Nick Young and Mike Miller
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5384416
I'd do it.
I think the original point here was that Wade would fit the Kirk role perfectly, and do it much better than Kirk.. and that two attacking guards who have similar mindsets can play together successfully. I happen to agree.
Bayless would be a sweet addition IMO, but I don't know about the Hinrich/Thomas for Blake/Pryzbilla/Outlaw. I haven't watched Outlaw a whole bunch, so I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on that deal. But I do believe that trade would make us a little bit worse for this season. It may open up salary for 2010, though. I personally think Hinrich helps the team a little bit more than Salmons, and is ideal to have as a combo guard if Wade were to come to Chicago.
This could be going down.
To Bulls: Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw and Joel Przybilla
To Blazers: Kirk Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5384121
Salmons and Przybilla both have options (player and ETO).
So, if they both were to bail from the Bulls, there would be enough money there for the Bulls to go after two top free-agents.
Isn't that interesting?
To me, it may take one star free agent to attract another/pry them away from his own team. So Wade has a leg up there perhaps because he's already there in Miami.
As for Wade's effectiveness with Rose, if we could get Wade, I'd sell my own children... a subscription to Newsweek. Seriously, I have no doubts Wade with Rose would be a destructive force that would at least barge into the room of contention. But whether it's LeBron(probably not), Wade, Bosh whoever I think the only real chance the Bulls have of attracting one of them with Chicago's stingy conservative rep and a no-name coach in Vinny is two bring in two of them. I don't think Derrick alone would do it(at this point). And what are the odds of this happening? They'd have to trade Kirk or Deng along with probably Thomas for expirings(and I guess Salmons opts out). Hard to imagine Pax/Gar getting that done I know. But if they somehow pulled it off, and had room for two max free agents, then I think one could draw the other to play with D(Rose). Do Paxson/Gar and Jerry see this as the goal/only way to land one of the big boys?? Doubt it, but I'm hoping and praying that they do. Because then we have a chance.
Fact: Kirk is an NBA quality PG who is playing largely out of position.
Fact: There are many overpaid players in the league - this happens when rookie and max player contracts are held artificially low. It's an unusually tough problem right now because I doubt anyone even considered the cap dropping when handing out contracts several years ago.
I don't disagree that there could be better options for the Bulls at SG quality/salary-wise. But I also don't think you're being fair to Kirk. He does far more than hit a 3 "every now and then" for the team. He's played off the bench and/or out of position without making a big deal out of it; he's helped Derrick in spite of Derrick taking over his position; he's continued to play hard; he's not causing locker room issues; and he's not embarrassing the Bulls by breaking laws or doing other crazy stuff off court. Doesn't mean the Bulls should never trade him, but imo it does mean he deserves better than being slammed as "one of the worst players."
I'd far rather have Kirk on the team than a lot of people. I get the issues with the salary cap, and they're a real problem. But at least we're paying him to play, not to sit on the bench, or at home, or to play for another team.
Completely disagree.
I think Kirk out of position is a better option than several other current starting SGs, and I also think that he's not nearly as bad of a contract as several others in the league.
I get your point that the value of Kirk's contract on the Bulls as presently constructed is low. But I absolutely don't think you can jump from there to your apparent conclusion that he sucks.
If you consider Kirk a bad player with a negative impact on how the team plays, we'll just have to disagree.
Kirk certainly has hidden value. Just look at his diminishinig performance over the last three years. Dribble Drrible Kaptain Klank. Priceless...
Anthony Parker, Luther Head, Corey Brewer, Devin Brown
And I get that you're flat out saying he sucks - I'm saying he doesn't suck, outside of the contract in the Bulls situation.
Yeah, Hinrich is a marketing machine with his magnetic personality and insane game, but he is white so he has that going for him.