How do you build the Bulls around Dwyane Wade?

Say you sign Wade, how do you build the rest of this team into a contender?    The team is left with a roster that looks something like this:

PG: Rose, SG: Wade, SF: Deng, PF: Gibson C: Noah, Bench: Hinrich, Johnson, 2010 1st, 5 guys at the vet min

Could we pull off a S&T for Chris Bosh?   Something using Noah + Deng in
it?   It's a possibility.  If I were the Raptors I'd consider Noah +
Deng for Bosh if Bosh is leaving if I liked Deng.  Personally, I
wouldn't do that trade if I were Toronto, especially with Hedo on that super long term
deal, but it's not entirely out of the question if Deng finishes the season strong.  

However, you've now elevated Hinrich, 2010 draft pick, vet min guy, or James Johnson to the starting lineup and have to run Bosh or Gibson at center.    Neither of those guys is really fit to play center, and you're probably getting killed at SF, plus if you start Hinrich, you may not have a single quality bench player on the team.

You still make that trade and figure out the rest later.   Guys who stink tend not to stink if they're playing on the court with three guys as good as Wade, Bosh, and Rose, so you can probably get by with completely one dimensional role players.   If you can make that trade happen it probably solves your problems even if it takes you one year to get the right role players.

However, given the trade is unlikely, with the original non-trade roster the Bulls clearly aren't a title contender right?   Your front court is Noah, Gibson, a middle 1st round draft pick [maybe], and some dude playing fro the vet minimum.    You're not winning a title with that regardless of how good the backcourt is.

Where do you go to build that roster going forward?    What tools do you even have to trade to improve it?   Luol Deng will never return you a big man that you want.   Your draft picks will never carry much value again because the team is a 50+ win caliber team with Dwyane Wade every year.   Joakim Noah's trade value is going to fall like a rock the second he gets a big extension. 

The Bulls have some chance of having the MLE available this season if they make a S&T for Wade to get him an extra year and throw Miami a draft pick or something, but then you have to subtract other positive assets off the roster list.   You'll have the MLE in the future, but name the last productive big man to sign as a FA for a team for the MLE?    I can't really think of a good one recently.

So you're locked into this team that has no front court presence unless it gets really lucky in the draft, makes a miracle trade, or miracle MLE signing.   Rose and Wade are great together the way any two great players could be great together, but their strengths are near carbon copies of each other.    Neither guy likes to shoot threes to space the floor, both guys want the ball in their hands to initiate on the perimeter.    Can you build around two guys who both just want to slash?  

It just seems like a two three zone kills that offense.   Keep three guys back to defend the paint, keep one guy on the perimeter to just defend the jumper of both guys who doesn't need to worry about penetration.   The team really has no zone breaking shooting ability or big men who can punish you.

They'd still win a lot of games, because great players can still beat the defense, but against the very best teams it seems like their offense wouldn't vary in enough ways to get the job done.   Their end goal is going to be to drive to the hoop.   They still have no shooting on the floor or post offense.

Are you saying you wouldn't sign Dwyane Wade Doug?   No, no I am not saying that.  I'm saying I'd take Chris Bosh first, and part of the reason why is that it's so difficult for me to envision how this team becomes grade built around Wade and Rose together.  

Some care has to be taken in how you attempt to get to the championship level.   We have to figure out a way to have a varied offense able to get efficient scoring from multiple places on the floor.   I don't see how the Bulls with Wade are able to do that.   They'd be exciting.   They'd win a lot of games.   They'd be way the hell better than they are right now, and they'd lose in round 2 or the ECF every year until they found a big man and would be left with no practical way to find him.

Now you can just hold out hope and try to get lucky.   If you can't get Bosh, I would do just that.   I'd be psyched and consider it a huge victory to get Dwyane Wade this off-season, so don't get me wrong.

Getting lucky worked for the Lakers who lucked into Pau Gasol for jack squat or the Timberwolves who managed to pick up Kevin Garnett [though they traded some fair assets for him].   I'd absolutely take Wade and then roll the dice on the future over taking Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, or Carlos Boozer.

However, when it comes to 2010 it should be:
LeBron
Bosh
Wade
big drop off
everyone else

I just don't see how you can get to the top of the mountain easier with Wade than Bosh.

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  • This 2010 plan frustrates me to no end.

    We've seen this happen before. We ended up with Ron Mercer and Eddie Robinson.

    NO PREMIUM PLAYER COMES TO THE BULLS OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL!

    As big of a market as Chicago is...our owner still has the stigma of breaking up a Dynsaty before its time. Del Negro is a questionmark of a coach...and the scrappy nature of this team does enough to garner them respect in Chicago...and that's about it.

    Wade may be willing to come back home...but for what? Are the Bulls even Measurably better than the Heat? 'Cause we already know that none of the other big ticket items wants this city..

    i still contend that passing on David Lee is one of the biggest mistakes our franchise has made...for all his shortcomings...he'd have been a perfect fit at four and given us a chance to at least salvage SOMETHING w/o praying for lightning in 2010.

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    Maybe YOU can't forgive the owner for what you perceive happened over 10 years ago...that has nothing to do with the players of today, who really don't care what happened back then.

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    Last night should of showed you that Rose,Deng and Noah can compete with all star players, we're just missing a superstar. If you add Wade to those 3, I don't think we're as far off as some would think. Wade, LBJ and Bosh, any of those three put us over the top. Sometimes I think people under value Rose, Deng and Noah a bit too much

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    ...or the Timberwolves who managed to pick up Kevin Garnett...

    I think you mean the Celtics?

    I agree that Bosh is the player who makes the most sense with our team as is, but I'd take any of the big 3 (Wade, Bosh, LBJ) who will come.

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    Ask Toronto how you build around Chris Bosh. I believe the most games that they have won in the Bosh era is 49.

    As is always the case Bosh is putting up the best numbers of his career in his contract year. You want to bet he never matches this years numbers again.

    Bosh is equivalent to Pau Gasol, and I bet Phil Jackson would tell you that Bosh is less talented than Gasol. This means that Bosh can only win as the second star on the team, not the top dog. We already know that Rose is not a top dog either.

    The most important thing is to get the top dog first and worry about the rest later, that is what the Bulls did with Jordan, the Lakers did with Kobe, the Cavaliers with Lebron, and to a lesser extent the Heat with Wade.

    Arguably there are only 2 or3 top dogs in the league, Kobe, Lebron for sure, Wade maybe and that is it.

    So if you want to build a long term championship team you start with them first.

    You almost make this point yourself, because you claim that even if we Rose, Wade and Bosh we can't get out of the eastern conference.

    So how is Rose and Bosh only a better team, we are capped out either way. Without saying so, you are essentially arguing that it is apparently easier to find a quality 2 guard than it is to find a quality power forward, and/or that power forward is a more important position than shooting guard.

    This post more or less validates what I have been saying for 2 years now, it is Lebron or bust, and we really need to do whatever it takes to get Lebron and one of the other top stars of 2010 free agency, by any means necessary. That means trading for McGrady's expiring deal and ridding ourselves of a minimum of 2 contracts among Hinrich, Deng, Salmons, and Thomas.

    Basically, lightning has to strike twice, the Rose lottery, and Lebron in a bottle.

    Of course if only we still had Ben Gordon all our problems would be solved, oh wait then we couldn't even afford to sign Bosh alone.

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but what makes you all think that either Bosh or Wade would want to play in Chicago, when both their respective teams are better than the Bulls?

    In the league's history, it is almost unheard of for a "max" player to not resign with his current team. Money and familiarity are the two biggest reasons why.

    In Wade's case, he's publicly stated that he didn't enjoy the winters at Marquette. Besides, he's already reached the LeBron-esque world wide exposure level. Coming to Chicago will not get him more endorsement deals than he's already capable of.

    In Bosh's case, the Raptors have a respectable core in Calderon, Jack, Turkoglu, Bargnani and DeRozan, who are locked in for the next 3-5 years. What incentive does Bosh have to choose Chicago over Toronto?

    In all likelihood, LeBron, Wade and Bosh resign with their respective teams. And even the likes of Joe Johnson and Amare Stoudamire "should" stay put (assuming that winning is their biggest motivators). The Bulls just don't have anything of value to lure anyone of significance. But like Doug said, you might as well try...in the same way you'd "try" to land a date with Meagan Fox. Reality, of course, says otherwise.

  • In reply to Blanks:

    that was my biggest problem with the whole 2010 bougus thing..lebron set it up for exposure..he made wade and company do it..and guys like carmelo,dwight and etc want to stay there and not be distractions thats why they extended their contracts fast..2010 is lebrons idea and every team is scrambling around like if they have a shot at the most biggest ego in sports with lebron..i have nothing against him i use to love him until i seen rose in high school lol..but he's too big headed and only cares about himself..you wont ever catch him with cheap sneaker deals for kids,a nba care commerical and etc..he worrys about money and his fame..and dancing around during games and acting like a earthquake happend when he does a regular dunk it gets annoying..its like watchin eddie house..its a 30 point lead.. why you pounding ya chest?

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    to me lebron is the most unneeded sports figure of all time..its not like mj,tiger woods,peyton manning,and etc..they dominate night in night out and win all the time and never and i mean never try to badly get attention, shit they barely look for it they let it come to them..he's always trying to look like everyone is on his shit and the world is revolving around him..honestly ..f it..i do hate him now when i think of it..its annoying..the most overrated play in sports history is lebron's one..it was game 2 of a series where they only won one game and basically got swept..it wasnt in the finals,it was confernce championships..it wasnt a super understanding difficult shot..turk only played good d on the play for the lob..to see poeple and the nba hype up that shot as if it was a triple overtime nba finals game with the best defender all smugged on him is crazy..im honestly now as i write this am staring to really hate lebron..

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    Watching the Bulls this season has made some things very clear. We
    have problem scoring. Why? Because we don't have any shooters! Yes we
    do have John Salmons, but that's all. Kirk isn't an offensive threat.
    If anything he's a above average on-ball defender. Nothing on offense.
    Jannero Pargo isn't even worth mentioning! Wow, that kid is baaad!
    I've played some NBA 2K10 lately. But I don't want to be the team in
    my heart. If I'm the Bulls then around 90% of my points are scored in
    the paint. Why? Because there are no shooters around! We need shooting
    to spread the floor so our own Derrick Rose can work his magic. Also,
    it's much easier to defend a team that only gets their points in the
    paint. But if you can kick out the ball to the perimiter sometimes and
    get some points from there too then all of a sudden it's harder to
    defend! This is basic basketball, but this seems to have slipped the
    minds of the Bulls' front office and training staff.

    Eventhough both Amare and CB4 have had monster seasons so far then I
    think signing one of them next season would create some problems. Or
    let's put it this way: We would have the same problems as we have now!
    No shooters. If we sign either of those guys then signing a Jason
    Kapono, Anthony Parker, Peja Stojakovic, Kyle Korver (you know,
    shooters) is imperative! I'm not saying those guys should start, they
    could just come of the bench and spread the floor for us. We need
    that.
    On the contrary if we get Dwyane Wade then our problem would be
    inside scoring. But imagine that backcourt!!! Derrick Rose and Dwyane
    Wade. Every team around the league would be scared as hell playing
    that backcourt. Now we have part of that spacing needed for Derrick.
    The same goes for Joe Johnson. Eventhough Joe is getting up there in
    age, he's still one of the best SG's in the league.
    And having Derrick and Dwyane (or Joe) alongside each other would
    create matchup problems for other teams. They can't just send their
    best guard to guard our best. Becuase then the other will do some
    damage.

    If by any chance we get LeBron, things might (I'm absolutly not saying
    they will) get quite ugly actually! Right now in Cleveland LeBron is
    running the show. He is the PG, SG, SF, PF and C. And that would
    create some problems for us. Especially in the PG position. There we
    have a quite good player called D Rose. And he needs the ball in his
    hands to work his magic. But now LeBron has the ball all the time in
    "The Q" and that sometimes hurts HIS team aswell. I'm not saying
    signing BronBron would just be trouble, I'm saying signing CB4, Amare,
    D Wade or Joe would be better fits for the team as constructed at the
    moment.

    If we want to get a SF then we should go after Melo. He doesn't need
    the ball in his hands all the time. But I don't think Denver will let
    him go with the team they have at the moment. If they get as far in
    the playoffs as last season, or even longer, then he'll stay put up in
    the mountains. They have quite some team up there now!
    Signing an allstar SF isn't a very smart thing to do anyway. We have
    this guy called Luol Deng there now. And we've signed him for 80
    million in five year, so by signing Melo or Flight 23 (or 6 as it will
    become next season) means Luol is coming of the bench! That would make
    him the most expensive bench player ever! Isn't it useless throwing
    away 20 million per season on a SF when we already got one we pay more
    than 15 for?

  • In reply to Gurra:

    im not only a big fan of melo but not just me but plenty of people see this as his best fit in the whole nba besides denver..a slashing/scoring/passing/upside point guard whos unselfish with a scoring/mismatch/inside/outside mvp type player with the ability of two players to go for 30 or 40 on any agressive night is a recipe for championship and marketing...rose and melo are probably the most loved players with unique situations...melo is in a bad market and sells tons of jerseys and is loved by every real basketball fan and rose was 9th in jersey sells last year and was a rookie whos overseas doing advertisement and sneaker commericals..two all stars..and 2 big time players..

    how about this deal...joakim,loul,and hinrich and 2 or 1 first rounders for melo,martin and bad contracts or what ever to even it out...with that rose and melo would make a hell of a core..and a team and coach around them...smh we would be one of the most watched and best teams with boston,l.a,dallas,denver,san antonio,houston,and even cleveland aging real fast...melo and rose or rose and melo =) lol

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    ...Doug is clueless...to even think of trading Noah for Bosh...then thinking Bosh over Wade...Wade knows how to win a Championship...Bosh may know how to speak French!

  • In reply to Moveyourbody:

    yeah and he was on one of the top teams at that time..and he also knows how to be injured alot and wasting a max contract for a guy who doesnt fit next to our best player makes no sense at all..if he wasnt from chicago..he wouldnt even be mentioned...it would be lebron,bosh and amare then wade..

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    Not to derail the discussion, but I had a question regarding this Doug
    "Joakim Noah's trade value is going to fall like a rock the second he gets a big extension. "

    Once the Bulls figure out 2010 and sign whomever, would it benefit them any to try to approach Noah early about an extension? Maybe a bit of a discount then if they wait? I am clueless when it comes to the NBA cap/financials..so I was just wondering.

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    Most likely, any big FA that leaves his old team will dodo by a sign and trade. That way, they get their money and to their new team. If the Bulls were to pick up LBJ via a sign and trade, maybe they give up Deng or Kirk to the Cavs. Doing that would give them a chance to still pick up Bosh in a similar manner.

    I don't think it's likely the Bulls get two guys, but they can probably get someone. Using the S&T will allow the Bulls to possibly sign a big name an maybe trade for an accomplished vet from another team.

  • In reply to edwardbuell:

    LeBron's salary will be in the ballpark of $20 million next year. For the Bulls to match that, they would need to give up Deng AND Kirk (not one or the other).

  • In reply to Blanks:

    Salary macthing isn't necessary when you are under the cap. If Salmoms is gone, one of those two will be enough.

  • In reply to Blanks:

    Sam Smith just wrote that even if the Bulls traded Hinrich and Tyrus(or didn't resign him), and Salmons opts out they still would not have enough money to pay for two max free agent contracts(and still stay under the luxury tax).

    I just don't think there's a chance the Bulls attract a Wade or Bosh unless they are bringing in another big time player to pair with(along with Rose). If they do that, then of course that's the one time Reinsdorf says you DO go over the cap/luxury tax. Before the Feb. trade deadline you trade Hinrich for expirings. Lose Thomas similarly through trade or no resign. And Salmons with the possible work stoppage coming in the future opts out for more guaranteed years. Then you bring in Bosh and Wade to pair with Rose, Noah, Deng, and Taj. If they don't think big, or are lying about going over the luxury tax to win/contend then fine. Other wise this is what they have to do IMO.

  • In reply to iamdvsj:

    I don't think we need to worry about Salmons opting in. Several NBA experts predict a labor stoppage after next season because the owners want to have profit certainty. If they miss a year, Salmons would be about 33 and seeking a deal when not too many teams will have cash. I think he has to opt out this yer and try to lock up a mid level exception contract for a few years. For as much as he has struggled so far this year, he's still got a good chance at a MLE or at least 4+ million deal this off season. And if he does opt in, he'd be a good sign and trade piece.

  • In reply to edwardbuell:

    One can only hope....

  • In reply to edwardbuell:

    Personally i dont think Wade is the answer. Essentially we have a younger dwade in drose. Chad Ford had this to say about Kirk Hinrich Trade rumors
    "The Bulls need to move Hinrich for an expiring contract in order to have a realistic shot at making a pitch to both LeBron James and Chris Bosh this summer. Can you imagine a team with LeBron, Bosh, Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah? John Paxson can. If Bosh isn't traded before the deadline, you have to believe the Bulls have a good chance to get both.

    However, trading Hinrich won't be easy. His productivity has really fallen the past two years, and he still has two years and $17 million left on his contract. Bill Simmons swears the Celtics will be interested. But that's a lot of money for a backup point guard."

  • DVS,

    First off, the Bulls didn't pass on David Lee. The year he came out the Bulls didn't own a 1st Round Pick. So, get your information right next time.

    Secondly, given the fact that the Bulls and Heat have virtually the same record, I would say adding Wade to the mix makes the Bulls a better team. I have to believe he gives the Bulls at least an extra 10 wins, if not more.

    Third, in regards to your claim that no premium player comes to the Bulls of their own free will, well all I can say is that was a different era and time. The Bulls have a nice core of Rose (ROY last year), Deng and Noah (MIP this year, most likely) and a few other pieces. If they make the playoffs, which I expect, then they should be an attractive team to land on for a top free-agent.

    Lastly, BE MORE POSITIVE!!!

  • Last night's game against the Celts showed me how important a premier big man is - even one past his prime. Without KG, the Celts lost to the Bulls. That only supported my notion that getting a stud big man would help the Bulls tremendously. Now, LeBron would still be my top choice, but Bosh has to be second. And, given his duplication of strengths with Rose, I may even put Amare And Boozer up there before Wade.

    And I don't think today's NBA players care about how the Bulls dynasty was broken up anymore than they remember dial up Internet.

  • Doug,

    First off, the Bulls need to keep their core of Rose, Deng and Noah together. They are developing nicely and possibly turning into All-Stars.

    Secondly, the Bulls' management should look towards the Celtics' model of success with a bit of a tweak. They found a way to add Garnett and Allen to a roster that already had Pierce. Now, if they can find a way to have 3 stars on their roster, so can the Bulls (Rose, Wade and Bosh ideally).

    Third, based on the Celtics' model of success, they drafted Paul Pierce and then eventually traded for Garnett and Allen. Well, the Bulls drafted Derrick Rose and now have to trade for Chris Bosh and then find a way to sign Dwyane Wade, which is the challenge and tweak.

    Getting Chris Bosh VIA TRADE is the key. Why do I say that? It creates a domino effect. The Miami Heat are trying to pair a superstar with DWADE. If you take one of the other BIG 3 (LBJ, BOSH and AMAR'E) out of the equation, that hurts their chances of doing that.

    On top of that, who's to say DWADE doesn't take a hometown discount, knowing full well that his marketing money if he played in Chicago would be enormous. Afterall, he grew up a idolizing MJ and the Bulls. He knows full well that Jordan made way more money off the court, then on it.

    The Bulls' management has alot of work to do. First and foremost, they have to keep this current team winning. I think a few tweaks (Tyrus Thomas, Jannero Pargo, James Johnson and possibly John Salmons need to go) have to be made to the roster. After the playoffs, they can worry about trading off someone like Kirk Hinrich to create enough cap room for two top free-agents.

  • Paxson the trainee is incapable of luring a big name player to Chicago to play for his Laff-A-Bulls. Rose is the only above average player on the Bulls and he doesn't play defense!

    No-Shot Noah the weakling, Klank Hinrich the clock eater and Deng the fragile are your core player! This is a joke on the fans!

    Did you see Deng repeatedly miss in the 4th quarter last night in Boston when the game was still close against a tired and wounded Celtics!

  • This is the trade to make.

    To Bulls: Chris Bosh and Sonny Weems
    To Raptors: David West, John Salmons and mutliple #1 Picks
    To Hornets: Tyrus Thomas and Jannero Pargo

    It accomplishes so much.

    First and foremost, the Bulls land one of the the BIG 4, Chris Bosh. Getting Chris Bosh, the All-Star PF they need, via sign-and-trade, undoubtedly makes the Bulls a much better team.

    Secondly, it blocks the Miami Heat and Cleveland Cavaliers, among others, from getting him via free-agency. That is important because it opens the door for DWADE and/or LBJ to leave their respective teams. Even better, it could land DWADE in Chicago at a discount.

    Third, the Bulls don't have to worry about what John Salmons is going to do with his player option, nor do they have to worry about losing Tyrus Thomas for nothing.

    It's a great situation for the Bulls' management, if they could pull this off. I hope someone gets them this trade idea. I have no doubt that this trade could lead to another DYNASTY for the Chicago Bulls.

    PG - Rose, SG - Wade, SF - Deng, PF - Bosh, C - Noah

    Doug, me and 5 other bloggers on here could come off the bench and we would still win 50 games...haha!!!

  • fb_avatar

    Nice to see Mr. Happy living up to his name today! Yeah, with Rose, Wade, Deng, Bosh and Noah any of us could come off the bench for that squad. Except me of course. I'm a prima donna and I need my minutes.

    I don't think that bringing in Wade means we have to blow the team up and start all over. Pretty much any of the FAs or trade bait out there at SG and PF are tailor made to play with this team as it's built now - solid D, solid rebounding, one of PGs in the game, and gaping holes at at SG and PF. Really the only guy out there that might require blowing up the squad is Lebron. And that's not even really much of a problem so long as you get good return on Deng.

    The question of fit and chemistry isn't about how to build around these guys. It's which guy takes us the farthest immediately. You know, of all the names floating around the one that intrigues me most is Dirk Nowitsky. Bring him in next to Derrick and that's an instant Eastern Conference final appearance, his game is everything this team needs in one neat package. Imagine Dirk battling against Garnett in the ECF. Not only classic, but probably lopsided.

    Everyone just ASSUMES he stays in Dallas but why? Contending in the east is easier than the west, he'd get to play without the pressure of the team owner getting lubed up in the front row every night. He's german so he's not scared of snow and he's probably got family in central IL or wisconsin somewhere. We should show up in Dallas with $25 mil and a chart from geneology.com and make this thing happen!

  • Wow!, 50 wins sounds like a dream...50 reasons to be happy, not 31 like now, LOL

  • And we could trade Deng, Hinrich and Salmons for McGrady, renounce Tyrus and have only $12 million in returning contracts, enough for 2 max free agents

    Lebron and anyone.

    I know that you have said that Houston would not even consider this deal, but have the Bulls even considered proposing it, NO.

    Hinrich and Deng and even Salmons are Houston type of players. I don't know HOustons cap situation well enough to know what they can do if they just keep McGrady and let him expire.

    I don't think that Houston gets any real player of value back for McGraDY, the league knows what a piece of crap he is, and that he is over athletically. So the Bulls offer of Deng would likelly be the best player that anyone would offer.

    Is he good enough, we will never know, because the Bulls brass doesn't have the brass to find out.

  • trade noah and loul for chris bosh its better than tyrus and loul..trade 2011s first,joakim and loul and i gurantee we get bosh by the deadline....then trade hinrich & tyrus for kevin martin and something else....and boom...2010 team...you cant have noah over chris bosh...we seen this soo many times...loul,gordon,hinrich,noce and even sefa when it came to the stoudemire deal last year...we over value our players because of our market..bringin in a guy to replace noah is easier than getting a 23 & 11 all star..kevin martin is our sixth man..rose and bosh are our top two players and kevin martin as a third option? that would mean we must be deep..thats our goal...we need a deep team..a trio of rose,bosh and martin would be deadly every year in the east...dont worry about 2010...get bosh and martin before the deadline..

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