Plan B: The "I thought of it this morning while waiting for the train in -18 degree weather at 5:30am and possibly not sane" plan

We need a plan.  Without a plan there's no attack.  Without attack there's no victory.   [I don't even know what movie that's from, but I can hear it in my head]

With the Bulls playing like the worst team in the NBA right now, the hopes of landing one of the top few FAs in next year's free agency class are limited.   The worst case scenario for the team, and one I think has an excellent chance of happening, is to vastly overpay a 2nd tier free agent so that we at least landed someone and so that the team can at least maintain it's level of mediocrity.

The Bulls simply don't want to get real bad again, and in many respects, I can't blame them.  It didn't exactly work out the last time they tried to build through the lottery despite an unprecedented number of draft picks.  

This plan, named the "Joe Johnson/David Lee/Carlos Boozer" plan or the "let's be mediocre forever plan" doesn't give the Bulls any real upside.  If you can't get a guy who has a chance of taking you to the next level, don't over spend on him.  Especially if he's 29 or older that season.

So what should the Bulls do now?    If you can move Deng for an expiring do it.   Do it as fast as you can.   Same with Hinrich.   If you can get picks back in the process then jump up and down for joy.   If you could move both off the roster then the team can be in the "2 max contract range" and try and convince two guys to come here with each other and have Derrick Rose.    It's a long shot in working, but since the talent level has dropped low enough that it's unlikely to get one, you might as well go for two.

The other option is to embrace the 2011 plan.   Find teams in desperate financial straights, trade your 2010 expirings for 2011 expirings, and get some draft picks thrown in the mix.   Salmons + Tyrus + Jerome James for Andrei Kirlenko + scubs + Knicks pick?   Utah might improve considerably with Salmons playing SF, they have the potential of keeping Tyrus who might fit on their roster and save a buttloas of money next year.

How about you throw a similar package together for Peja and the Hornets and their lotto pick?   Though you have to be careful there as if they get talent they could turn things around quickly and not even give you a lotto pick, and they're not giving you a high lotto pick regardless.   Maybe something like Miller + Tyrus for Peja + Wright + draft picks.

I know I'm jumping the shark here.   However, everyone else is aligning around 2010, if you can get cap room in 2011 instead and stock up on three 2010 lotto picks in a deep class, then you may have a chance to rebuild the roster quickly.

The best thing to do is probably to weigh your options in the off season.   If Utah's willing to move Kirlenko just to save money, the Bulls can accept him back with the rights to Utah's pick in trade using our cap space after the team fails to land a 2010 free agent.   Use this as the backup plan rather than the primary plan.  

The one thing I'm certain of is Luol Deng needs to start shooting three or more threes every game at 35% or greater percent, or he needs to be traded.   The team can't go forward with him and Rose playing together while he's not taking threes in volume at a reasonable percentage.   I think Deng could actually do that right now if he just started shooting them, but if he's not going to then he needs to go.

If you combine the two above plans, you basically try to enter the 2010 off season with only rookie contracts on the books, max cap space for two FAs, then if things fall apart pursuing FAs, you forward your capspace a year while collecting two more lotto pick talent guys in trade plus your own lotto pick talent guy.

Then you make a  bid for Carmelo in 2011 with hopefully a roster full of potential, talent, and boatloads of flexibility.    Jumping the shark?   Yes.    Too cold outside for rational thought?   Yes.

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  • If I'm not mistaken, those words of motivation came from one of the ALL-TIME CLASSIC MOVIES, "One Crazy Summer" a John Cusack special.

  • "It didn't exactly work out the last time the tried to rebuild throught the lottery."

    How can you say that? They did get Derrick Rose, right? That full story is yet to be written.

  • Didn't I release this plan yesterday? It's called the SALARY DUMP plan.

    Trade #1:

    Kirk Hinrich to OKC for Etan Thomas, Shaun Livingston and a #1 Pick

    Trade #2:

    John Salmons to SA for Roger Mason Jr. and Michael Finley

    Trade #3:

    Tyrus Thomas and James Johnson to Utah for Matt Harpring and a #1 Pick.

    You and I are on the same page here Doug. There is NO POINT to staying MEDIOCRE. They need to acquire SUPERSTARS (plural). If they can get 2 max superstars in free-agency (Wade and Bosh) great, but if not, then they need to find a superstar or two in the Draft Lottery.

    Either way, it's time to DUMP SALARY and move away from MEDIOCRITY.

  • I think he was referring to the Deng/Gordon/Kirk lotto years.

  • That's true. Of course, trading away Elton Brand didn't help. Did it?

  • You don't think OKC could use or want Kirk Hinrich? They are heavy at SG, not PG. It's looks like they are headed to the playoffs. I think that would be a great trade for both teams and Kirk Hinrich.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Can they even dump Luol Deng? I'm not so sure. I have to believe they would have a better chance at dumping Hinrich, Thomas and Salmons.

  • They draft plan didn't kill them. It was the bad trades Jerry Kraus made that did.

    Who did they get for Scottie Pippen again? Who did they get for Toni Kukoc again? Who did they get for Steve Kerr again? etc.

    Things could have changed, if the Bulls would have traded Pippen for Jermaine O'Neal back then. Obviously, O'Neal got traded from Portland and Pippen eventually ended up their.

    Personally, I would have liked to see Brand and O'Neal in the Bulls frontcourt. Those both had a solid 6 year stretch of averaging a double-double.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    makes sense but understand that elton,ron,and eddy were all proven and were on the bulls and produce and the rest had potiential and were here too but those past trades were draft day ones..

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    honestly i wouldnt do a salary dump for deng..trade him for kaman..straight up it makes tremendous sense...a real 7 foot 260 center with low post skills and size to clog paint on d....but the problem is...kaman and noah would only make sapcing smaller..neither could shoot..thats why bulls havent made that deal..im pretty sure it wouldve been if both bigs had range..ex .kaman and camby didnt work because camby was an inconsistent midrange guy never really helped each other on offense..

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    my best bet for 2010 since its SOO overrated with no real champions or building piece since the avg age is probably 27 or higher..i go with rudy gay and other young guys(cant think of any right now)but rudy is looking for a deal similar to what hinrich has(surprising)..9 -10 mill a year..like lamarcus's contract..and to think..rudy>hinrich and yet we have him..rudy just wants out badly..he's a better long term fit w. rose and has skills we wished deng had...rudy age23 deng age24

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    The bottom-line, Jerry Krause ruined the Bulls rebuilding chances when he traded Scottie Pippen for a 2nd Round pick and Roy Rogers.

    If he would have traded for Jermaine O'Neal, who was rumored to be on their radar, things would have went differently.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    How about Luol Deng to the Clippers for Marcus Camby? Is that do-able?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Or try to trade Luol Deng to Minnesota.

    To T-Wolves: Luol Deng
    To Bulls: Brian Cardinal and Damien Wilkins (or Ryan Gomes)

    I don't know. Who needs a Small Forward with a HUGE CONTRACT?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    def! but the problem is camby doesnt fit noah because thomas would be the same..HOWEVER camby is exactly the mindset the bulls had for taj so its a terrible fit... its almost like if we're going to have the skinnest team ever..but for a salary dump i get what you mean..use him now and lose him later..but the bulls should rather have a low post scorer and kaman is extremly underrated and has the same contract has deng but shorter years..guy avg 16 and 13 2 seasons ago with legit frame to go against howards,lopezes and etc..i say get kaman..

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    kaman also avg 3 blocks that season..he plays d...my guess is the bulls should get pieces that fit because our team doesnt fit together at all thats why we're losing..get rudy and kaman..noah and deng would be gone then..and because bosh is untouchable unless rose and deng/noah is on the table..ima go for andrea bargnani because hes easier to get and avgs 17 and 6 24yrs old and pick and pop with rose all day easily and would spell the kaman and gay piece i also brought up..just a idea

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    I don't think the Bulls want to add any long-term contracts, unless the guy they are bringing in is a bonified SUPERSTAR (Bosh, Amar'e, Wade, LBJ, Joe Johnson and maybe Boozer).

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    its not a long contract its actually 2 years shorter than dengs..and only lebron and bosh deserve long term commitment..(age and health)everybody honestly is old in the 2010 class

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    shooting..post..outside..slow pace and up tempo ..i actually like those moves when i look at it..spacing,penetration,fast pace,3 20 point scores and kaman can get you it but wont avg it...but what makes it better is if rudys contract for hinrich(not the trade but money wise..lose hinrich)bargnani for noah and pieces(andrea is under the most cheapest contract for a really big upside player(less than salmons contract)and kamans for deng...we would STILL have a chance at 2010..

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    Camby is a solid veteran, who rebounds and plays defense. Plus, he has an expiring contract.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    i know but the clippers dont wanna lose camby this season at the end and lose kaman either..they dont have faith to put deng and his contract over thorton in their minds..its way to stupid..griffin and who?jordan? lol they wont do both deals unless we gave them a solid big to go too..thomas and deng for kaman and ? doesnt matter..thomas barely plays even when hes here..everyone pulls their hair when hes on the court..

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Doug, do you think the Suns would have interest in a Deng, Thomas, James for Amare, Dudley, Tucker type deal? It adds a little salary for the Suns this year but they get a long term SF in Deng and a trial look at Thomas. We get a look at Amare and even if he opts in we still have caproom to add to Rose, Amare, Noah, Johnson, Gibson, Johnson, Dudley,etc.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    i think we would be a joke after that because rose and amare defending the pick and roll would be crazier then see'in thomas act like he's in the zone offensively..we wouldve had stoudemire if we really wanted..and now that the suns are winning..hes far out our reach..

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    What if?

    They kept Rose, Deng and Noah. Traded away Hinrich, Salmons and Thomas. Signed Wade and Bosh. Filled out their bench with draft picks and minimum contracts.

    PG - Rose
    SG - Wade
    SF - Deng
    PF - Bosh
    C - Noah

    Wouldn't they be competing for a trip to the NBA Finals?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    cant we would be way over tax for mr jr...deng must be gone and where our shooting goina come from? rose and noah must get contracts soon or later and we would have absolutely no depth at all because of no money..

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    doug i dont know but i never really understood..why does this team limit thier team and players potiential?...

    tim grover is notriously known for being the best trainer around the league..got his start with jordan and works in chicago but yet we cant get him...we finally get thomas and noah a mentor when they been here for a while now..did they just realize they guys or raw players?..and rose has a mentor thats been there but wasnt "the guy"..b.j is his agent ok..but why dont we work harder..why get vinny..why trade sefa and let gordon walk? these guys we're def building pieces.. why didnt we get garnett,bosh,gasol,amare,even boozer? is this franchise forreal?

    and will or grand prize maybe......................................................................david lee?..i could imagine paxson presenting this sh*t..

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    did they just realize they guys or(are*) raw players?

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    Russel Crowe, A Beautiful Mind, and 2010 Free Agency

    This apparently is a morning for obscure movie references...

    Russel Crowe in A Beautiful Mind comes up with a decision matrix theory. (Sorry, I forget who Russel Crowe portrayed in the movie.)

    Crowe is in a bar and he and his buddies are looking at a gorgeous girl surrounded by two attractive girlfriends. Go for the gorgeous woman, she says no, ask out the 2nd or 3rd girlfriend, she's offended she's second choice, she rejects you.

    Crowe decides that asking out one of the two attractive women has a better chance of success, with a nice "return on investment". A better decision strategy.

    How this became the basis for decision theory in labor negotiations I don't know (there was a Nobel prize).

    But the decision theory makes sense for the Bulls. LeBron and Wade will just laugh when the Bulls make an offer. Bosh might not laugh. But certainly if the Bulls go seriously after the "two girlfriends", they have a better chance of success.

    In 2010, the Bulls need a very good power forward and a very good shooting guard. Whoever they are. Going after LeBron or Wade will just tick off whoever we try to acquire afterwards.

    Go for the two girlfriends. And keeping up with these obscure analogies, like in the bar, you're not getting anyone to say yes if you look scruffy as heck.

    So a word to the wise, and Bulls ownership, make some trades in 2009 so that free agents will actually consider it viable playing for the Bulls.

    Nobody likes to date a scruffy guy at a bar, unless it's 3 AM and closing time.

  • In reply to rkraneis:

    Wade (SG) and Bosh (PF). That's a nice plan.

    Keep Rose, Deng and Noah. Trade Hinrich, Salmons and Thomas. Sign Wade and Bosh. Fill out the bench with draft picks and minimum salaried players.

    PG - Rose
    SG - Wade
    SF - Deng
    PF - Bosh
    C - Noah

    That's 5 players, who are capable of a double-double.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    salmons is the only reason the staring 5 even shoots a three..deng and wade cant play together because gordon and deng couldnt play together but it was a perfect inside outside match..bosh isnt nowitzki and noah is to thin to play center..everyteam wade played on had atleast 3 or 4 shooters just in the lineup..we would be above avg..but not great..spacing is the only way rose wade and deng can play..

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    i dont mean lets keep salmons..but to expect wade and bosh to help our shooting its not a good idea..deng played best with shooters..(hinrich and gordon) spacing is so important in the nba look at every great and even really good teams..they all have the ability atleast to shoot...

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    unless we have nowitzki and a battier type of player with this lineup...rose,battier,deng,nowitzki and noah..our whole personal doesnt fit at all...

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    What do you think of this plan? It's two big trades, then a different view of free agency:

    Trade 1 -

    Memphis: Rudy Gay, Jerry Stackhouse, Steven Hunter, Jamaal Tinsley

    Chicago: Luol Deng, Taj Gibson

    Trade 2 -

    Minnesota: Brian Cardinal, Damien Wilkins, Antonio Daniels

    Chicago: Kirk Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas, Aaron Gray

    The Grizzlies know that no one wants to play for them. While they have cap room now, what good is it if no one will come? This deal, while losing Gay, gives them a guaranteed starting 5 of Conley/Mayo/Deng/Randolph/Gasol over the next few years. With Thabeet, Arthur, Gibson coming off the bench. They wont have to worry about FA's not coming ini 2010, and they'll have some financial flexibility to add a piece or two once Randolph's deal is up. That team could compete for the playoffs now, and have flexibility in the future.

    The Bulls get Rudy Gay, 3 expiring contracts, and get out from underneath the weight of Deng's deal. Now that we have Tinsley to back up Rose for the year, we cut Hunter and hire him as an assistant, which he basically is anyway. If we're over on our roster, be creative and IR Hunter or somebody inconsequential. Do whatever teams do to get to the limit.

    With the Hinrich deal, the T-Wolves get a player they covet in Hinrich (locked up) as well as Tyrus Thomas, a player they'd pick up the option on, and who would look nice playing with Love/Jefferson. Minny is another city free agents avoid, so guys with extra years on their deals are attractive to them.

    The Bulls get out from another long, expensive contract and pick up 3 more expiring deals going into 2010.

    As it stands today, assuming Salmons opts out, the Bulls have approximately 20 mil in cap room in 2010. If they made these moves, they'd have about 40-45. With that room:

    Re-sign Rudy Gay for the 9-10 mil he's looking for. Sign Joe Johnson - dont even attempt at Bron or Wade - if you come at JJ first and tell him he's your priority, I think he'd come. He'll cost you 15-18 a year. With the 15-20 mil you have left, target David Lee, Travis Outlaw, and Joel Pryzbila - with auxillary targets of Mike Miller, Eddie House, and Raja Bell.

    Your starting 5 in 2010 could be: Rose, Joe Johnson, Rudy Gay, David Lee, Joakim Noah. With Travis Outlaw, James Johnson, Joel Pryzbila, and Eddie House off the bench. You fill in the other 3 with 2 more cheap guards and one more cheap big man.

    This team would be one of the most well-rounded, best shooting teams in the league. With guys that play D, get up and down, and not one of your 'core' guys older than 28. Do you have a true low-post threat? No, but the Bulls never have, and they've on the perimiter before. I think this team could be a winner. And incredibly fun to watch.

    What do you all think?

  • In reply to DanFrystak:

    I don't think Memphis wants to trade Rudy Gay. And Minnesota doesn't need Hinrich or another PG.

  • In reply to DanFrystak:

    i think the memphis deal makes sense but if we trade taj and tyrus..we cant expect miller to last long...but my bet for chicago would be rudy..i brought it up and it makes ton of sense..a 20 point all around long athletic scorer with range for the same amount of money as hinrich...the bulls should chase him down before 2010 because gay might see others wanting to give him more money than he thinks he should get..i say bring gay and kaman before 2010..move hinrich deng and noah..kaman is a bigger upgrade over noah than what people think until they look at them closr and see their not close at all..

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    Matt I like your plan specially about getting rid of Deng, he sucks.

    Unfortunately.. I can't see any big time FAs coming here, Melo is a Nugget.

    Personally if the Bulls can't get anyone to come here this summer I'd like to see the Bulls bring back Tyrus Thomas.

    Go into the future with Rose, Noah and Tyrus, Johnson, Taj and your 2010 draft pick. Maybe they could sign a lower tier FA like Rudy Gay. Find a coach.

    Or go for Durant in 2011.

  • In reply to souleater7:

    Thomas is as good as gone. Rudy Gay isn't coming here, because they Bulls have Deng, who they won't be able to trade. OKC is not going to let Durant get away. If they did, they would be monumentally stupid.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    rudy gay would come here if we went after..he a wants big market,money and a future...deng will be hard to move but remember zach randolph got traded and he has a gigantic contract and hes a criminal..we would have to sweeten the deal like rudy and others for deng and thomas just so they can accept louls contract and thomas potiential..but thomas barely plays anyway

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    thanks for hope.

  • In reply to souleater7:

    The Bulls need to go out all and all in. They need 2 superstars, Wade and Bosh, via free-agency or 2 superstars via the draft. I like Turner and Aldrich.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    aldrich and noah would be a no offense down low team..defensively we would be great but it would be a 3 on 5 every trip on o

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    Cole Aldrich can do work down low. He should be a solid pro.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    "SOLID PRO" we need upside because and talent because honestly deng should be a 3rd or 4th option not one or 2

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Would this be a good trade possibility?

    To Jazz: John Salmons and Tyrus Thomas
    To Bulls: Matt Harpring, Kyle Korver and a #1 Pick

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    why would Utah give up the pick?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Wow, five hours late to the dance and I'm 70 comments behind. I think it's too soon to bail on 2010, but these are smart and potentially realistic Plans B.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I LOVE THIS ONE: This plan, named the "Joe Johnson/David Lee/Carlos Boozer"

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    I thought about Kevin Martin too. Whether he's available or not comes down to where the Kings play Tyreke Evans. If they keep him at PG, then he's probably staying. If they move him to SG, then Martin could become available.

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    doug i can see us trading for picks by deadline like last year..but i dont see utah giving up a def lotto when its the knicks pick a potietial top 10..there goina lose okur and boozer and need a good guard and this years class got 5 bigs who can be top 10 picks...overseas kid i cant remember but is top4 pick,favors a josh smith or amare like kid but is sooo young,aldrich,monroe and i cant remember all but its safe to say this years offseason(draft and freeagency) is the best ever..

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    Utah could be a good trade partner. With a veteran team, that wants to compete out West, they may want one or two of the Bulls' players. With them holding New York's #1 Pick, a phone about a trade is definitely called for.

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    I like the outline you posted Doug. Make room for Wade and Bosh to play w/ Rose.. that would be somethin'. And if that doesn't pan out (I expect Wade to stay in Miami) then the backup plan would work for 2011 as well.

    Sadly, I also agree that we're heading toward a gross overpayment of Joe Johnson this summer, which will be like watching last year's team all over again.

    Out of all the ideas above, the one I'm excited about and feel is realistic is obtaining Rudy Gay. Especially at 9-10 mil, he's a much better fit w/ Rose.. someone who's (ultra) athletic for the breaks and a solid perimeter shooter/scorer.

    Say Salmons opts-in, which seems more and more likely with how inconsistent he's playing, do we have enough space to go for 2 max contracts?

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    doug i think you should make a blog talking about the whole 2010 offseason...one thing about the 2010 year is its like the way the economy is built..someone has to fail in order for others to succeed just like the stock market too...some franchises will be set back sooooo far after that offseason..its def goina be unique and fun for your average general manager fan =)

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    Sgt. Tibs from the GoWhereHipHop page?!? what are you doing on here?!? lol....but anyways that's what we need OFFENSE. If we can straight up swap Martin for Deng i would do it. Then maybe use tyrus and jerome james to get Harrington, boozer, or maybe david west at the all-star break....

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    if we move deng which is our second best player on a low talent team to be honest than how were goina get new orleans to trade a two time all star whos in a slump but is still an all star calibre player..they are trying hard to keep chris happy..he will leave mark it down just not now..unless a bynum,farmer and a 1st and expiring comes along....but boozer is the only reachable player as a pf in the league for us..harrington deal died and wont come back..hes way better than tyrus and they need to prove they can win and not try to say look we have money and market..but no team..

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    hahah someone recognizes me! I follow the Bulls as religiously as I do hip hop so naturally I follow Bulls Confidential all the time.

    But yeah, KevMart for Deng straight up would be great. With Taj emerging as a PF worthy of 25 minutes a game, Tyrus' value is lessened to a degree. That rumor for Harrington wouldn't be too bad and may actually help Doug's plan since Harrington is expiring after this year, if I'm not mistaken.

    And Harrington automatically becomes our best 3-pt shooter AND low post threat (even though he hasn't really touched the paint since his Atlanta days). Something Rose's game would see some nice benefits from.

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    the guys who have been on the Bulls a while are not improving..Deng's not an on the court leader and his defense is bad. Kirk H has peaked. Noah is a half a trick pony but at least he is competing...I would trade everyone but Rose at this point. Would a trade of Salmons for Rafer Alston work straight up. RA at least has some fire in him (last year of his deal I think)....for too long no one knows where to go on offense or defense they do not shoot well defend well pass well or communicate well. What addled minded free agent would want in on this mess. Pax n Gar have assembled a rummy roster of mid level players hoping someone would excel. No one has and the clock is running out...Gut this team and bite down hard and get a proper coach to mentor Rose....Byron Scott or Avery Johnson or Mo Cheeks. hell is Bobby Weiss still around?

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    we'd need some guards in the kirelenko trade. i like it.

    rose/hinrich/pargo
    hinrich/almond?/pargo?
    deng/ak/johnson?
    ak at pf/taj/johnson?/
    noah. /miller/gray

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    Everybody said last year's draft was weak, but you've got James Harden, Jennings, Tyreke Evans, and even though he's injured, Blake griffin who I seriously doubt will be another Oden because most guys don't crap out physically that bad. And he's way more prolific/offensively skilled then Oden was.

    So what about the Miami plan? They completely and absolutely tanked that season before they ended with the worst record and almost got Derrick Rose. Beasley may have sheep for brains but, he's also on his way to being a 20 ppg and seven rebs addition. If they don't keep him, don't doubt that someone will want a guy with that kind of offensive talent. A nice trading piece to aquire the second star for Wade to pair with(Bosh).

    I know Wade had some legit injuries, but most NBA coverage/insiders hinted/thought he could have played more if needed. What was needed was for him not to play. Same with Shawn Marion.

    But Miami's franchise with Riley running an ultra tight, conformist ship did a much better job of keeping up a united front on dealing with the media to keep the spin away from the tank job. We don't have that kind of cohesion or leadership here unfortunately.

    Honestly, I think tanking is not only wrong, but purposely losing/throwing a season to me usually leads to bad karma i.e. the other shoe dropping or something bad coming of it sooner or later.

    Still, I think John Wall and the three or four other studs who will emerge would look pretty good alongside Derrick Rose and with no short term cap issues. But the problem is you have Pax and Gar Forman trying to figure out who is the James Harden and not the Jordan Hill. That is by no means a given.

    The way things are going with the Bulls and their overall reputation of drafting clunky players, a generally clumsy not savvy rep for their organization to me makes it highly doubtful guys like D-Wade, LeBron, or even Joe Johnson will come here. That's not to mention who wants to play for a team without a solid, established NBA head coach? Answer: nobody.

    I really think such huge gaffes have already been made with the overpay of Deng and Hinrich(he just doesn't shoot well enough for that kind of money) that tie Chicago's hands if they are intent on not going over the cap. And no they won't pull a tank job though they easily could with the current injury/short bench situation. Easily. Just keep Del negro on board and the 'fix' is in.

    These fantasies are nice to mull over but face it, this is Chicago; the capital of misguided ownership and lame ass teams. Basically just by being Chicago fans, unless a miracle happens, we're screwed.(I'm sort of kidding/hoping something can be done, but not holding my breath).

  • In reply to SamS:

    exactly wall is a cheaper and higher sided wade for the future..no one wants to act like that because of name..its like saying derek fishers history over hinrich even though hinrich is better..

  • In reply to SamS:

    harpring doesnt even play and our depth would be gone..utah wants that pick..its cheap good talent..their over the tax right now...thomas would back up millsap and salmons is 30..doesnt make sense

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Trade Deng and Tyrus for Kevin Martin and Jason Thompson, or maybe just a Deng-Martin trade. The Kings already said they don't like Tyreke Evans and Martin in the backcourt together and i would rather have martin than deng, cause he actually can shoot the three good. But i don't think we would have a good bench depth though....

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    i love kevin martin..problem...he plays less games then deng(more injured)..and sacramento wants to develop casspi..i would look into a hinrich,thomas and a second for martin and hawes..we need size and shooting..this is a exact deal like last year..hawes=miller martin=salmons..then move deng..push for gay and load our bench in 2010 and hope for rose and gay to become allstars that they will be later but earlier than expected..

  • In reply to joeacook3:

    i don't see Kings doin' that 2 for 2. seems like they covet Thompson. Kev Mart would definitely be a better fit offensively but his D and injuries are cause for concern. having said that, id rather see him on the team than Deng.

  • In reply to souleater7:

    here goes my easy to obtain before 2010 and remember these guys already are under contracts...rudy gays future contract for hinrich..dengs contract for kaman..noah and salmons(will opt in...i promise)for bargnani's and then convince the soon to be old as joe johnson because they wont even tickle the 2010 money even if they made these reachable deals and have a inside,outside,upcourt team that will have to fill out the roster with hard playing defenders who can shoot and move up and down the court... people we need to get over the fact that noah is solid and numbers are higher becuase we miss so much...i know he's good but if we see him as an untouchable then we will be doom..ask around whos individually better..more experience and bigger..kaman i promise ya dont know whos that if ya think joakim so special..hes good but should get moved if we can do better..

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    well-said about noah

  • In reply to Yunqn:

    Why can't Deng and Wade play together? That's an outlandish claim.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    umm.....whos suppose to shoot the ball again? if gordon and deng didnt get along and they matched perfectly..two off ball guys..1 outside and one inside..and so how wade will help deng?rose cant keep standing around and hoping the paint opens up and then we say omq is he hurt or why does he pass so much..we have too much slashers and no creating offense from inside and outside type players...

  • he wants out thats why he didnt even let the talks begin..look it up..he wants aldrige like money 9-10 even if its 10.5 or 11 we pay hinrich 9 anyway..we def would have to trade..i know

  • If it is a pure dump that you are after, the simplest deal is, as I have mentioned before, is to trade for McGrady.

    WE could dump Deng, Hinrich and Salmons just for McGrady. We could accept Kyle Lowry back as a backup point, either way the deal works under the cap, and actually frees up luxury tax space for this season.

    Would Houston have any interest in taking back these contracts, never mind these players, I don't know, they all seem to be Houston type players.

  • Wow, we were the Clippers, maybe we still are.

  • I've advocated Ellis for over 2 years now, ever since Gordon started rejecting contracts. Since Gordon is "the greatest clutch scorer in the game today"(at least according to some people), we should have been able to trade him for Ellis and Golden State would have been glad to throw in a couple of #1's.

    Now do we have any ammo to get Ellis, would they go for Deng, maybe, Hinrich, not likely, Salmons, doubt it.

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