More Tyrus to New York stuff from KC

Per KC Johnson:

The Knicks are trying to keep Harrington and make the deal work with other players, the league source said.

The Bulls long have admired Harrington's game. And trading Thomas would
preclude the Bulls from making the decision of whether or not to place
an approximately $13 million salary cap hold on his services at a time
when they might be trying to optimize salary cap space for the 2010
free agent class.

Furthermore, the emergence of rookie Taj Gibson as at least a viable
rotation player has allowed the Bulls to consider shopping Thomas, the
league source said.

Three things worth addressing, so we'll leave the most interesting thing until last:

First, the Bulls would have a cap hold if they make Tyrus a qualifying offer, however, that cap hold and qualifying offer can be withdrawn up until July 23rd without Tyrus's consent.   All the big name free agents will have found homes by then, so the cap hold/QO is really irrelevant.  Tyrus doesn't need to be dealt in order to clarify this situation.

Granted, he can't be kept if we sign a big name FA next season, but then neither could Harrington.

Next, the Bulls have long liked Harrington's game.   Really?   Look, I'd do this trade without blinking.   Harrington's an offensive blackhole in the front court, and we need such a player right now.   He can put points on the board.   However, there's few situations that I'd want to throw Harrington into.   He doesn't really defend or rebound well, and if you can live with his negatives why the hell aren't you playing James Johnson.  

Also, Taj Gibson's play has allowed us to shop Tyrus?!?!    Seriously, someone tell me what there is to like about Taj Gibson's play.   It's like someone wrote in the media guide that he's a good defender and rebounder, and thus it became written into lore never to be questioned again.   

His next defensive box out will be his first.   He's a decent mid range jump shooter when left wide open, and a decent offensive rebounder.   This guy's fouling rate is incredible, he can't contain his man on defense, he gets scored on at will, he doesn't create offense, he's got hands made of stone when it comes to catching the ball.

He's Chris Duhon all over again.   A guy who should be a solid role player that you love for his hustle, but instead you can't stand because he plays way too many minutes and his praises are sung while his massive deficiencies are overlooked relative to a player behind him who fills a greater team need.  

I need to stop now, before this becomes a Gibson rant, because I like Taj Gibson.   I just can't stand the way we play him.

Finally, New York wants to put other players in the deal for Tyrus instead.   What feasible trades are there besides Harrington?    The Bulls won't take on long term salary, and they clearly want some talent back.   They also need someone who can play in the front court.   David Lee, Nate Robinson, Chris Duhon, Darko Milicic, Cutino Mobley, and Larry Hughes all have expiring contracts.

Of those guys, only the first three seem like they'd even be in the realm of realistic offers, and only David Lee would give them back a front court player.    I think it'd be odd if the Knicks moved Lee rather than Harrington, since I think he's a better player.   Ironically, the Bulls could actually probably use Harrington's black hole style offense more than Lee's offensive rebounding anyway, so that idea might not make sense for either team.   

Plus Lee would need to approve a trade, something which he may or may not due since he'd lose bird rights if he does (though they may not be important next year anyway with so many teams under the cap).

I can see why the Knicks don't want to give up Harrington, I just don't see what else they have to offer that makes sense for both sides.   So either the Knicks fold on this one, or there's likely no trade IMO.

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  • Agree with your assestment...

  • If they're not giving up the Italian guy then discussions should be off. Tyrus Thomas needs to stay Bull.

  • I'm a fan of Al Harrington's game, but why not go after David Lee? To me, Al Harrington is a short-term fix, while David Lee could be a long-term solution.

    Personally, if I were Gar Forman and/or John Paxson I'm not even looking in New York. Instead, I would be zero-ing in on Toronto and Chris Bosh. That's the SUPERSTAR they need. He's frustrated, his team is in a free-fall and he is headed to free-agency. He would certainly love playing in Chicago and the fans would love having him on the Bulls.

    The Bulls management needs to forget short-term fixes and establish some long-term solutions.

    To Bulls: Chris Bosh and Marcus Banks
    To Raptors: David West, John Salmons and two #1 Picks
    To Hornets: Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James

    That's what I want to see. It's do-able!!!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    why would the hornets trade david west for tyrus thomas and jerome james. hes the hornets only real trading chip beyond chris paul. i mean if your trying to piss off chris paul then this is the perfect trade. nothing says im calling it a year more than trading for jerome james.

  • In reply to Donofalldons:

    New Orleans is paying the luxury tax and they need to cut salary. Why do you think there are rumors about Chris Paul getting traded? Personally, if I were them, I would trade David West before I would trade Chris Paul.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Clearly Taj has some improving to do, he's a rookie after all. What I dont follow with this article is your complaints about his playing time....who else do you suggest we play....Aaron Gray? If TT was healthy I assume he'd be playing/starting. Are you assuming Taj would still be starting if TT was actually healthy? Ease up on the rook....dont let ur dislike of VDN cause you to dog Taj. The thing that bothers me is that we're letting Taj learn on the job but not JJ even tho I think there have been plenty of opportunity. But I digress...

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    The key here is that the Knicks are the one who are driving the talks. They want Tyrus. That's why Gar is talking to them.

    Knicks dont have much to offer, Al is not great & I cant see why the Knicks wouldnt want to deal him. there must be other issues.

    I wonder if James Johnson is in the discussion - his lack of defense certainly will not both D'Antoni

  • Al Harrington just said he wanted to retire there...

  • doug i have to agree with you about taj gibson being a horrible defender. i also remeber last game he got the defensive rebound twice within 3 plays and both times had the ball immediately striped from him for an easy layup afterwards. aslo, i found it hilariously ironic how we both think hes a bad defender when last game MR. NEIL FUNK UTTERED THE FOLLOWING: "I THINK TAJ IS OUR BEST ON BALL DEFENDER" he also praised some other part of his game which is also below average but i cant remeber what he said.

  • It's a great trade for Toronto. They get an All-Star PF, a solid role and two #1 Picks. It's a great deal for the Hornets. They get a hometown kid and a salary dump, which they need to do. It's a great deal for the Bulls. They get the PF they desperately need.

    Look at these lineups.

    Chicago:

    PG - Rose, SG - Hinrich, SF - Deng, PF - Bosh, C - Noah

    Toronto:

    PG - Calderson, SG - Salmons, SF - Turkoglu, PF - West, C - Bargnani

    New Orleans:

    PG - Paul, SG - Peja, SF - Posey, PF - Thomas, C - Okafor

    This is a SMART and DO-ABLE trade for each team!!!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    The Hornets could play Thornton at SG and bring Peja off the bench.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Why not Marcus Camby?

    If the Bulls are going with a minor trade, instead of a major trade, I would look towards the Clippers. Afterall, outside of Noah, the Bulls rebounding has been awful.

    To Bulls: Marcus Camby and a throw-in (M.Collins, R.Davis or C.Smith)
    To Clippers: Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James

    http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5308959

    * If Bulls want to show more guts, they would offer up James Johnson and try to get a 1st Round pick for him.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    By the way, how's the passing on DeJuan Blair looking so far? Blair just put up 18 and 11 against the Celtics, while Doug's boy, James Johnson, got another DNP.

    Good stuff.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Blair is Scary

    Against the Celtics, Blair had 18 pts and 11 rebounds in 22 minutes.

    Oh, my, goodness.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I like the Camby idea if its doable

  • In reply to CN71:

    CN71,

    I wouldn't mind this roster to finish out the season.

    PG - Rose/Pargo/Hunter
    SG - Salmons/Hinrich/Davis or Collins
    SF - Deng/Johnson
    PF - Gibson/Miller
    C - Noah/Camby

    There defense and rebounding would be better.

    Now, if the Bulls threw in James Johnson, they could take back Rasual Butler instead of Collins, Davis or Smith. I would only do that if they could get a 1st Round pick in return.

  • It would be good for each team.

    Could Toronto find a better deal, than getting an All-Star PF, a solid role player and two #1 picks. I'm not sure about that. You have to remember that West and Salmons are under contract.

    Thomas would fit in great in New Orleans, especially playing with Chris Paul. We all saw what he did for Tyson Chandler's game. I have to believe he would raise Tyrus' game.

    For what it is worth, Sam Smith and Chuck Swirsky both love this trade. I'm hoping they pass it on to the right people. When you really examine it, it makes quite a bit of sense.

  • Jerome James expires at the end of the year, while David West still has a few years left on his deal. So, this trade would save them money.

  • Didnt Lee lead the NBA in double-double's last year? I thought he did, I would take him for sure...the other parts of this trade dont seem to do anything really positive for the team, so, I could really take it or leave it...

  • In reply to Dmband:

    I would take David Lee over Al Harrington, no question.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    James Johnson does kind of remind me Al Harrington. Although, Harrington can play PF, whereas Johnson can't. He's a SF.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    It would be nice if John Paxson and Gar Forman could get someone productive for Jerome James. He's the guy that needs to go.

    Clippers anyone?

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    You know I always thought that Jerome James looked, acted, and played like an idiot. Now, I am not so sure. After all, the guy is collecting $6 million a year sitting on his fat ass and eating Doritos. That has always been my dream. Who is the idiot?

  • If only James Johnson was a PF, than he may be ahead of Taj Gison in the rotation. That just isn't the case. Unless, Deng or Salmons go down with injure, hopefully not, your boy JJ is riding the bench.

  • This all seems strange, why Al Harrington? The timing is obviously weird considering that Tyrus is still injured and although we haven't heard anything negative about his injury there's always that chance that NY's doctors wouldn't give him a passing grade on a physical. And like Doug said, if it VDN's idea to play a 4 who can space the floor, but can't defend or rebound well, then why not play JJ? I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, I'm just saying this popping up now is odd considering Tyrus hasn't played in so long and we have a similar player on the roster, albeit a younger version, that doesn't play at all.

    As a side note I kind of miss Isiah. If he was still there GM we could probably get their 1st round pick out of the deal...lol.

  • I thought there was a rule that said you couldn't trade injured players.....

  • I agree with Doug, Harrington can score from the PF position. He can catch and shoot the 3 which opens the lane for D.Rose. Something that TT cant do.

  • Here is my somewhat counterintuitive take on Al Harrington:

    Bringing him in would actually be good for James Johnson.

    That's stupid right? He'd be another guy to take James's potential minutes, a guy who even plays kinda like James would play.

    That's the point.

    Right now, there is nobody on the roster James is like, so to fit him into our sets you have to carve out his own little role. With practice time limited, especially during the season, I wonder if part of the reason he hasn't seen the floor is that the coaching staff has found it not worth their time to work on modified sets for a guy only looking at 10-12 minutes a night.

    If Al is brought in, suddenly the offense needs to run plays for a hybrid 3/4 with some range and ball skills. The Harrington package we put in should be a package JJ can run too. So JJ becomes a real backup, which I feel is easier for a rookie who needs to learn a lot than a change of pace guy with no one to emulate.

    Taj becomes Deng's backup, which works too. Taj isn't nearly as good and doesn't have Deng's jumper and range, but they can run close to the same sets. Taj's minutes should go down.

    Rotation ends up being

    Rose/Salmons/Kirk backcourt
    Al/James at "Squat" Forward
    Deng/Taj at "Long" Forward
    Noah Brad at Center

  • I definitely want Johnson to play more too. I do think it's unfair though, to send him out there without a role to play, which has been happening so far. JJ needs marching orders which he hasn't gotten yet. But again, with the coaches, I'm sure putting in the JJ set is pretty far down on the list right now with all the struggles the regulars have had on offense. But Harrington would create that role. And unlike Tyrus, Harrington has a mature game, so that would be one less guy in the adolescent phase out on the court.

  • Remember the buzzer beater pick-and-roll three that rondo threw back to rasheed last night vs the Spurs?!? Imagine that being Rose and Harrington....I would definitely do this deal. Also if the knicks want him back they can pick him back up next summer with some of there 2010 money.....

  • When I heard that from Funk, a part of me died inside. Did you noticed how King just sort of went silent and changed the subject?

  • Those lineups are good.

    I'm telling you Toronto will trade Bosh and New Orleans might trade West to save cash. The Bulls could spin it in their favor, if they work at it.

  • I'm sure they could dump him for expiring contracts, but Tyrus would fit in good there with Chris Paul.

  • James Johnson is not a better PF than Taj Gibson, nor will he ever be. You know why? He's not a PF. He's a SF.

  • Yep. And the Bulls might be at the top of that list.

  • I don't know about that.

    You have to remember that Salmons, Hinrich and Pargo aren't shooting the ball good. If they shoot better, then the offense will function better.

    The Bulls are at the bottom of the league in rebounding, so I think Camby would be a really nice addition to the Bulls.

  • Take a look at Gibson's +/- stats on 82games. For a rookie he's doing some things right. He's a net negative (-2) but not the huge one you would expect. And somehow, the overall defense and rebounding are better when he is in.

    Then take a look at Blair. His on/off numbers are terrible...

  • So Doug, What would this trade do for our Cap space and ability to sign another guard right away.

    I think if we could do this we could sign another guard possibly? The NBDL has a few god guys.
    Look up:
    Sundiata Gaines
    Desmon Farmer
    Alonzo Gee
    Mustafa Shakur
    or Billy Thomas who is a good three point shooter.

    I would like to go the D-League route if we cant find anyone on the open market.

  • In reply to 1096ballenf:

    Yep. They would fit in with the D-Leaguers we already got- Hunter, Pargo, Gray, James and perhaps Gibson. Maybe Pax will surprise us all and ask Scottie to come back. Rumor has it that Pax has also inquired about Cliff Levingston.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    OOPS. I need to apologize. I really don't think Hunter could make a D-League roster. I say this in all sincerity. And yes, I started that Levingston rumor myself.

  • Do you think threy would try and sign one player with the entire 1.3 or sign two guys for the min. Like a Darius Washington who can run the point and then another Big or SG who can shoot or something.

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