First, I'm not surprised too much. The Nets aren't nearly as bad as their record since most of it was accumulated with Devin Harris out and then on a west coast road trip. That being said, a 1-18 not being quite as bad as their record isn't saying much. There's probably never a team as bad as their record if they start that poorly.
However, I said after the Raptors game, this team has among the lowest talent levels in the league with the present injuries, and they proved it against the Nets.
Besides the obvious negative of losing a home game to one of the worst teams in the NBA, there are some interesting thoughts to come out of it.
First, did Vinny Del Negro lose his job with this loss? I think if it was a blowout loss that there's a good chance he would have. Losing a close one, I think he hangs on. Let's hope the Bulls opt out of a Christmas Eve firing this time around.
One bright side of this game is Derrick Rose finally had a star powered game on offense. He's still not getting to the free throw line enough, but he had 27 points and 10 assists, and took the ball to the rim all night. He didn't get to the free throw line much (two of his four were on an intentional foul), but he did make it all the way to the rack repeatedly. He still needs to work on drawing contact, but I liked the Derrick Rose I saw last night, and it was one of the few times I can say that this year.
Rose also didn't have an easy defensive matchup. The Nets may stink, but Devin Harris is a very good defender, and Brook Lopez is good defending the hoop behind him
Given the way the game went, it's hard to come to grips with
the fact that Derrick Rose didn't get to take shot for the second
game-winning opportunity. He already nailed the first potential game
winner, he's been your best player by a mile in the game. You've got
to force the ball to him, and if you can't you need to do better than a
Salmons three, so Derrick came through against a tough individual matchup even if the team isn't so hot.
Taj Gibson had a great night. If it weren't for Taj Gibson shooting insanely well the Bulls would have been blown out. Put that in perspective, if Taj Gibson playes like you can expect Taj Gibson to play then the Bulls lose by 10-15. Hopefully he can keep it up, but let's be honest, Taj probably isn't going to start shooting 66% from the field mostly on long jumpers. Still, I wanted to give the man his due, because I'm awfully hard on Taj, and he had a big game.
Luol Deng had big numbers in the box score, but when I watched him I was really aggravated by his defense tonight. CDR was scoring at will on him, and CDR isn't that good. I think if Deng has a decent game on the defensive end of the floor the Bulls win this one easily.
Joakim Noah also got smeared on the defensive end, and any thoughts of him being an all-star after his hot start early sure have faded away. He was playing at that level for awhile, but he clearly still needs to gain considerable strength to bang with the big boys. I love Noah, but those who think he's untouchable need to rethink that philosophy.
Ironically, on the day I print quotes on Johnson not feeling confident defensively, but feeling good offensively he went out and had a solid defensive game while looking like a train wreck on offense. You know I love Johnson, and I still think he'll eventually be a good player, but he's having some serious growing pain issues right now.
The bulls are still struggling to get anything out of their guards outside of Rose (who has started to come alive). Salmons and Pargo combined to shoot 5 of 20 from the field for 16 points.
Filed under: Uncategorized
Tags: chicago bulls, new jersey nets, post game
You cant blame Noah.
Look at it this way.
Take yourself playing pickup ball and you are a great rebounder/defender. But you are giving up 30-40 pounds and height most times you play.
The guy playing next to you up front is smaller than you are, significantly worse than you are...who is also matched up against a guy 30 pounds heavier and 2 inches taller.
Your job is to hold off your own guy - which in itself is difficult AND try to hold off the other guy because the guy matched next to you is severely outmatched.
How can anyone succeed in that?
Thats what we are asking Noah to do.
Game after game, we watch Noah do his best to hold off a strong rebounder, only to have the other PF clean up the mess. Check out the stats in the last week or so you will notice a trend that rebound wise Noah is equal to his own man, but the opposing player is just totally dominating the Miller/Taj combo. Last night Noah had 9 rebs, Lopez had 10. So thats even in terms of numbers. But Boone also had 10 rebs.
Its not going to matter if Noah is 50 pounds heavier. Sure it will help out alot. But he still cannot consistently hold off 2 guys with equal size.
If you matched up Noah with Eric Dampier, Biedrins,Perkins etc, Noah would be an absolute BEAST for 82 games even if he didn't gain a pound. Not to mention probably one of the best rebounding and defensive teams in the league.
No-Shot Noah was matched up against Lopez who is the same size as this Florida fairy! Lopez took this mush mouth to school!
It took Noah three (3) years to get into shape and he is still a weakling who gets pushed around as if he was on roller skates!
Let's get real, Noah like the circle dribbling clock eater Hinrich and the fragile Deng are grossly over rated!!!!
It's time to dump salary, gather picks and change directions.
Trade #1.)
Kirk Hinrich to OKC for Etan Thomas, Shaun Livinston and a #1 Pick
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5317266
Trade #2.)
John Salmons to San Antonio for Michael Finley and Roger Mason Jr.
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5317276
Trade #3.)
Tyrus Thomas and James Johnson to Utah for Matt Harpring and NY's #1 Pick
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5317269
BULLS LINEUP:
PG - Rose/Livingston/Hunter
SG - Mason Jr./Pargo
SF - Deng/Finley/Harpring
PF - Gibson/Thomas
C - Noah/Miller/Gray
This allows the Bulls to make Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah the centerpieces of this team. It gives them three 1st Round Picks, two of which could be Lottery Picks. Plus, they will have be adding more expiring contracts, thus more money for 2010 free-agency bonanza.
The way I look at it, this team is MEDIOCRE. They can't stay that way. This plan gives them two really good directions. They could get EXTREMELY LUCKY in free-agency and land two superstars (Wade and Bosh per say) or they could rebuild through the draft by getting two future superstars (Evan Turner and Cole Aldrich per say).
It's time to rebuild and re-organize for the future.
Salary dumps. It's time to look towards the DRAFT LOTTERY.
Trade #1.)
Kirk Hinrich to OKC for Etan Thomas, Shaun Livingston and a #1 Pick
www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradei...
Trade #2.)
John Salmons to San Antonio for Michael Finley and Roger Mason Jr.
www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradei...
Trade #3.)
Tyrus Thomas and James Johnson to Utah for Matt Harpring and NY's #1 Pick
www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradei...
Chicago's Roster:
PG - Rose/Livingston/Hunter
SG - Mason Jr./Jannero Pargo
SF - Deng/Finley/Harpring
PF - Gibson/Thomas
C - Noah/Miller/Gray
This plan would allow Rose, Deng and Noah to be the centerpieces of this team. The Bulls would have three 1st Round picks coming (two lottery picks?) and plenty of free-agent money for 2010. More importantly, it gives them two directions and ways to rebuild this team and move away from MEDIOCRITY.
Yeah he needs a PF next to him - hopefully a scoring one, but the guy needs to be either bigger than Noah or stronger than Noah for it to work defensively. This is why a Bosh/Noah combo works the best because at least Bosh is long. Am Amare/Noah one isnt ideal defensively but on the offensive end Amare would soften up the D so much it balances it out.
They need to DUMP SALARY and get some LOTTERY PICKS.
There are some nice looking big-man prospects sure to be entering the draft this year.
- Cole Aldrich
- Derrick Favors
- Greg Monroe
- Solomon Alabi
- Craig Brackins
etc.
I would try and swing a trade with Utah for the rights to New York's #1 Pick. They will be losing Matt Harpring (SF) and chances are Carlos Boozer (PF). Therefore, I think the Bulls should offer up James Johnson and Tyrus Thomas for that pick. It makes sense.
The Jazz would hang up the phone, and put a block on Garpax's number if they offered that deal. Thomas didn't look too good before his injury, and Johnson absolutely sucks as a small forward. Utah won't be trading a lottery pick for those scrubs.
It's worth the phone call. If they hang up, they hang up.
Keep in mind, Utah is going to lose Boozer and Harpring next year. Getting Thomas and Johnson might be worth their while.
First things first, this loss at home sucks. But I always thought the Bulls would be a team that plays near .500, and probably end up with one of the last few playoff spots. Unfortunately, that type of team will pick up their fair share of bad loses. The Bulls losing against the Nets at home is definitely one of them. Even though I don't think the Bulls are good enough to sweep a season series hands down with any NBA team, losing the season series against the Nets would be horrid. I guess I could look at this loss differently if the Bulls went on to win both games against the Nets nearing the end of the season, but this loss put my finger closer to the panic button than it's ever been this season. I absolutely hate bad losses.
I agree with you that hopefully this game marks the return of the 'real' Derrick Rose. The one thing I liked that Vinnie did was switch to starting Miller, as it seemed to light a fire under Taj a bit. I also agree that James Johnson had a tough time out there. He looks thrown off by all the minutes he's getting now, and doesn't know what to do with himself.
Here are some other observations, Doug, that I'd like to hear your opinion on:
1) Neil Funk is driving me insane. He routinely credits the wrong guys on plays. I'm not sure if it's from not paying attention or needing a new prescription for those coke bottles he wears on his face...but it's getting ridiculous. How many times can he be confused on whether it's Pargo or Rose who has the ball? Good rule of thumb for Neil - if it was a good thing it was probably Rose, if it was a bad shot or a dribble off his foot, guess Pargo. Also, his love affair with Taj Gibson is out of control. Everyone on this site sees how overmatched Taj is defensively and rebounding, as well as offensively in the low post. He can hit an open 16-footer and he is a decent help defender. That is all. Neil (and Stacey) act like he's the next Russell defensively, and seem to think any inadequacies are simply due to being a rookie. They are drinking the same Kool-Aid as Vinnie I guess.
2) Stacey King finally really started driving the point home about Rose and the ineffectiveness of the top screen. It's such bad basketball, and needs to end. Either roll to the hoop, Noah, or don't set a pick. That is the real issue - whoever sets the pick just hangs out at the top of the key, effectively getting Rose doubled. What are you doing up there exactly, Jo? Roll to the hoop or don't come up there in the first place. Rose doesn't need your help.
3) The more and more I watch Salmons play, the more I think "Oh my God he's not that good. And he knows that. And he's going to opt-in and kill us in 2010 free agency. How...HOW DOUG...does he take that 3 at the end of the game? Rose is killing, we only need a 2, there is a hand in his face...and he fires away. That was simply Gordonian. Inexcusable. John Salmons, go sit in the corner for 10 minutes and think about what you've done.
4) Doug, you are officially too deep in the forest to see the trees. The fact that you are contemplating whether Vinnie should be fired after this loss is evidence of that. You even broke it down, "Well if it was a blowout, yes, but since it was a close defeat..." When you lose, at home, to a 1-18 team - regardless of how they got there - that is it. Game over. Vinnie Del Negro is officially indefensible for the rest of his coaching career.
5) Let's have some fun - who do you think potential coaching replacements are? Say Vinnie was fired tomorrow, would Bernie Bickerstaff take over and finish the year? I still like the idea of bringing Collins in if they can change his mind. I do NOT want Avery Johnson or some other slow-it-down type coach. I think Byron Scott would be a nice selection. With his experience, particularly in coaching Chris Paul, I think he'd be a great influence on Rose and this team. And really, could we possibly do worse than Vinnie? I'm not so sure...
John Paxson should take over for Vinny Del Negro.
He put this team together and he needs to be held accountable for that. Let him get a firsthand look at the talent he brought to this city, so he can make the necessary changes.
Please, Pax the clueless trainee has to go right now! Followed by Vinnie!
Is Doug Collins still around? He would not let them be the Laugh-A-Bulls!
Doug Collins is the king of the slow, grind it out, half court game. That ship has sailed and is, IMO, not an option.
CDR is a much better player than you or others give him credit for. His college career was much the same. He was just as instrumental as Rose in getting to that NCAA final game.
And more responsible for them losing to Kansas.
It wasn't CDR who missed that free throw.
Check the tape. He missed 3 FT's and a jumper down the stretch. I think he also a had a turnover.
Mr. Happy, you use a lot of CAPS to get your POINT ACROSS. Are you just DRIVING your point HOME or are we supposed to TAKE this as you YELLING at us?
And calling the drafting of James Johnson a 'mistake' - sorry, "MISTAKE" - 20 games into his career is asinine.
JJ was the logical choice at #16. However, I would take Williams over him if the opportunity was there.
Right on.
The Bulls need a SG, not a third SF.
Actually, DeJuan Blair was the better choice at #16. They used potential injuries as an EXCUSE.
That wasn't a surprise.
Doug,
I know that you must be ready to write ANOTHER James Johnson topic, so I have a few ideas for you.
"TRADE JAMES JOHNSON" or "WAS DRAFTING JAMES JOHNSON A MISTAKE?"
You really can't go wrong with either of those.
I'd rather see the heading "DEVELOP JAMES JOHNSON". God forbid the coaching staff actually coaches. Listen, I know Vinny may not get fired after this game, but he's gone after this season, regardless of the outcome. Point is, dont just fire him to promote an intern, either fire him and go out and get your guy for the future or keep him till the end of this season.
Im gonna repeat something else Ive been saying all year. John Salmons is not good at basketball. He needs to see far less time on the court....that play last night at the end of the game is inexcuseable. I mean, a 3? Seriously. Guy has no court vision whatsoever when he is holding the basketball.
Give me Paxson as the Head Coach. That's accountability.
It's all going to be fixed when the already poor shooting Hinrich returns to the lineup featuring his brand new thumb injury... yeesh. He will prob still manage to take away about 4-5 mins per game from Rose
Hopefully, he takes those minutes from Fred Sanford. Sorry, I mean Lindsey Hunter.
It's not YELLING, it's just EMPHASIS.
The drafting of James Johnson was a MISTAKE.
I think there is a good chance they could get that pick from Utah (via New York), if they were to offer up Tyrus Thomas and James Johnson.
It makes sense for them. They will be losing Matt Harpring and most likely, Carlos Boozer.
My thought on VDN is why wait on firing him? Is he the coach of the future? This alone is the reason we should get rid of him. Doug, do you see a future with VDN as Bulls coach? Injuries are not alone do not sum up the dysfunction on this team.
Good point.
The FUTURE is what the Bulls' management has to focus on.
Is Derrick Rose the PG of the future? YES.
Is Luol Deng the SF of the future? Apparently.
Is Joakim Noah the C of the future? Apparently.
Is Vinny Del Negro the coach of the future? NO.
The bottom-line is, the Bulls need a new Head Coach, a new Shooting Guard and a new Power Forward. Like I said, they should DUMP SALARY (Hinrich, Salmons, Thomas, and Johnson) and set themselves up for a run at both Wade and Bosh. If they can't get them, then they should turn to the DRAFT LOTTERY and go after a quality Shooting Guard, like Turner or Henry, and a quality Power Forward, like Aldrich or Monroe.
It's time for CHANGE. They need to move away from MEDIOCRITY.
You mean, Is Luol Deng the SF of the future? Apparently not.
I'm not sure about that. He is playing better and his contract is hard to trade.
I think this team has proven it cant draft star players in the draft. All they draft are great college players who end up as good but not great NBA players. Paxson had that whole winning formula going for him when drafting Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Duhon, Tyrus, Noah, and Rose. All them were at schools that atleast went to the Final Four.
While we all think Derrick Rose will be an All-Star, it will take a great coach to make that happen. VDN is not that guy obviously. So thats the only downside to being a lottery team again.
Deng is our SF, and I'm fine with that as long as something surprising doesnt happen like LeBron signing with the Bulls, then we need to look into somehow trading Deng, but other than that I'm perfectly okay with Deng.
This may sound stupid but if CDR is a free agent in 2010 I want him at all cost. He would be a legit scoring threat off the bench for us and I think he is the type of guy who can get Rose somewhat happy again.
I guess Terrence Williams is upsetting the Nets' management with his negative TWEETING. I'm for this trade.
To Nets: James Johnson
To Bulls: Terrence Williams
Go for it Gar Forman. Make up for your MISTAKE.
How could anyone call out Noah? He's been the Bulls' best player this season. Perhaps he's a bit tired out from the OVERLOAD of minutes he's been getting this season.
Nice rotation Vinny. Well, I can't blame him too much. James Johnson sucks, so far.
Doug, you finally caught on! Noah is a weakling, Lopez is the same size and he dominated the Florida fairy.
All you have to do is to focus on Noah and watch the clown get pushed around under the rim. It took him three (3)years to get in shape! The trainees Pax and Vinnie forgot to tell this clown to lift weights!
No-Shot Noah ran his mouth to James and then quivered on the bench as James approached!! This cowardly behavior is not a Chicago tradition!
You do have to remember that Noah is "French"!
Pax has turned this team into the Laugh-A-Bulls
CDR is balling! Watch him every night and I have him in the fantasy league. He has played well and continues to improve. He is not a bad player...
Trying to be more positive...how has the spacing been recently? I haven't been able to watch the games but I get the impression that Salmons and Deng have been taking--and more comfortable taking--3 pointers recently. Is that the case (game logs make it look like it, sort of), and if so, has that opened up the lane any for Derrick?
I know you were banging on this point earlier in the season Doug. Is there any change?
Panic
How can I become a member of Realgm's Bulls community, anyone knows?
battlesmark18@yahoo.com
I'll take TWILL in a heartbeat.
To Nets: James Johnson
To Bulls: Terrence Williams
That's a solid trade for both teams.
What did New Jersey do? You might want to look into to that.
What? You would accept the Bulls giving up on James Johnson? Are you feeling okay?
Yes Doug, Noah plays good against poor and inferior competition!
Against good and strong forwards and centers, he stinks because he is a weakling! Lopez who is almost identical in size to No-Shot Noah, scored at will.
Noah is a Laugh-A-Bull just like the core of Hinrich and Deng. They are all grossly over rated and over paid!
Doug, didn't you say that James was not in shape. Do you think he is on Noah's three year plan to show up in shape
in his third year?????
boozer and gasol and bosh are PFs.