Mark Cuban's stats guy rips into the Bulls

Part of the true hoop effort:

My prediction is that the Bulls are going to stink this year. Ben
Gordon and Brad Miller were their best players. They let Ben Gordon go
to the team they need to beat for the playoffs? Why'd they do that?

He wanted a lot of money.
Well, he's worth it.

him go is just beyond stupid. It's ridiculous. And who'd they pick up
to replace him? Jannero Pargo? I looked at their lineups, and I guess
that they're expecting that Luol Deng can play his position. If he's
healthy -- and I don't know if he's healthy.

If Pargo is forced to take over Gordon's role than the Bulls will stink this year.  I would agree that the Bulls are expecting Deng to "play his position".   There's definitely some risk there, and I don't think anyone will know how healthy he is until they see him on the court.

Still, if Deng is healthy then you aren't replacing Gordon with Pargo, you are replacing him with Luol Deng while sliding other players over to different positions.  That really isn't a drop off in productivity as in the two seasons prior to last year, Deng was Gordon's equal IMO.

Maybe he's also a Derrick Rose detractor, he didn't mention Rose, but it amazes me how many people think Rose is going to be awesome, but the team is going to stink.   If rose is awesome and the team stinks, then Rose wasn't that awesome.   Part of a PG being awesome is making his teammates play better.  It's not like Rose is going out there with a hopeless group of Clipperesque talented players.

The other possibility is that he uses the term "stink" to describe average teams.   Many fans do this, I'd think a professional would not.   Given the Bulls won 41 last year, to say they'd stink this year would imply to me that they're a sub 35 win team.   I'd be quite surprised if that happened.

In the end, I take the guys words about as seriously as a Mavericks fan should take my words if I describe them. 


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  • "Ben Gordon and Brad Miller were their best players."

    Really?! I think this guy just discredited every basketball statement he will ever speak with this statement.

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    I'd put rose in there too but outside with the exclusion of Rose, they had the biggest impact on the team.

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    Yeah, when I read that I was thinking the same thing...Love Miller and all, but best player? Um? .... No.

    Further, everyone that didn't watch 90% of the Bulls games seem to not know that BG, while explosive sometimes, could be a huge detriment to the flow of the offense OFTEN times. Jacking up 3's at the top of the key with 20 seconds left on the shot clock while we have the lead and are in time kill mode...

    Loved BG, but people need to remember the black hole cold shooting effect on the offense (plus defensive liability). The majority of the press only watched the Celtics series, and even then seem to only remember the positive Gordon attributes...

    I can remember wanting to pull my hair out with Gordan just as often as wanting to kiss his me he was the perfect 6th man, just wanted too much money. When he was hot, let him do work, everything else though was better of forgotten.

  • "Maybe he's also a Derrick Rose detractor, he didn't mention Rose, but it amazes me how many people think Rose is going to be awesome, but the team is going to stink. If rose is awesome and the team stinks, then Rose wasn't that awesome. Part of a PG being awesome is making his teammates play better. It's not like Rose is going out there with a hopeless group of Clipperesque talented players."

    I think that was exactly the point he was making. Outside of Rose, I view this roster as clipperesque. They have the potential to be better but so did the clippers. I mean we have a couple of good pieces in Salmons and Miller but they are rentals. Miller is clearly on the downside of his career and won't be playing more than 30mpg. Salmons isnt a proven commodity is moving to a postion of weakness to him where he will be slower than most of the people he will be playing instead of quicker and we don't know if he will build on last year or fall back. Salmons to me just looks like he should be one of those average sfs in the league and not given such a large roll in the offense. Kirk is a pg, to me he is a average pg but we already have a pg to play massive minutes and Kirk needs to have his offense limited to spot up shooting. Deng, could be the turning point and a nice young talent but at this point he just looks like one of the worst contacts in the league and like Kirk will handicap a team finacially that is held captive by the LT. TT is just a question mark, he could be awesome or he could blow up this year mentally. He looked really angry in the playoffs. Noah is a nice young piece but we have yet to see his commitment to getting better. The rookies won't have much of an impact this year. I really think that Rose can step it up and we will still be a 35-40 win team. I expect him to come out big, but teams will double him and trap him at half court and take him out of the game and I don't expect Deng, TT or Noah to make them pay. Our offense really gained strength when you had BG and Salmons spread the floor and able to beat their man off the dribble. Effectively swapping Deng for BG in these sets hurts us a lot. When people scouted our team early last year, they only game planned for Rose and BG. Now we lost one of the two. No one is scared of Deng. Which gives him an opportunity to surprise but if he is injured or bad, this team will really struggle. Outside of Rose, no one else can consistently create their own offense and that will hurt.

  • In reply to TheStig:

    Rose wil get better this year, will he be an all-star probably not for another year or two. Salmons will be better this year too and Miller is depenable. All three will better prepared in the second year here. The trainee Vinnie should be a better coach this year.

    The biggest question marks are Deng and Thomas, can they step up and perform to the best of their ability. If not the Bulls are a lottery team again.

    Johnson and Gibson fit the needs at forward, they may help!
    Surprisingly Paxson did a good job on this draft.

    Noah doesn't have any offensive skills and is too weak to fight for postion in the paint because he is too lazy to muscle up. Will Joakim be in NBA running shape or will he be winded three years in a row??? Hinrich is just a very over paid attack killing back up whose limited skills
    will be more noticeable this year, he can't dump the ball off to Gordon with 3-4 seconds on the clock.

  • In reply to TheStig:

    Seems to be there would be little value in taking a "Stat Guy"'s claims to heart when he uses absolutely no statistical evidence to make his point about the Bulls.

    To disregard their roster beyond Gordon indicates to me he does not watch the Bulls closely, relying instead solely on the "PPG" column of the box score to base his analysis.

    We've lost some clutch shooting with Gordon's departure. But we've also gained a stronger defense, less turnovers out of our 2-spot, better ball movement, and most likely a better team shooting percentage.

    To disregard this team because of Ben Gordon's desparture is to admit you don't watch many Bulls games.

    P.S. This is the stats guru for a team that signed Devean George and DeSagana Diop to long-term deals. So...

  • In reply to DanFrystak:


    Doug said he is a stat man, I think he is an unoffical Bull' PR Blog Director!

    I will bet my Cub's world series hat that he doesn't watch or go to many Bulls games.

    The Bulls may have better ball movement with Gordon gone. Hinrich will be on the floor for more minutes, we are in for a lot of circle dribbling!

  • I agree that BG was probably the best player on the team last year...I think he wasn't really utilized appropriately though. He should be the leagues deadliest 6th man, which on a better team, I think thats where he would be. Brought in to kill teams when he was hot. If he's not, leave his D, poor ball handing and shot selection on the bench.

    However, BG being on a sub par Bulls team last year, its was sorta necc. for him to start / play a major role. On a better team though, I think he comes off the bench and is used where needed. Gordon really only did one thing well. Score. But even then, he was a streaky as anyone. When he was cold, he may as well have ridden the pine because when he's not making impossible shots, he's a detriment to everything else.

  • In reply to Vohaul79:

    And before everyone accuses me of being a BG hater, Im not, I was clicking refresh daily in hopes that I'd get news Chicago resigned him (as they claimed was their top priority... ... ... ). I think they should have gone into the luxury tax for BG...He's too deadly a scorer when hot to just let go. Plus, bring in a Bosh calibur player, and all of a sudden it takes the pressure off of BG to have to start / have to try and be the focus of the team, which I think overall is better left to someone else. Rose to Bosh, then let Gordon torch teams while / when he's hot.

  • Rose does things that are not in the stat sheets. So I thought he was there best player. Not defensively though.

  • Right, but I would argue that Rose and probably Salmons had a bigger impact then Miller last season. Denny Crane couldn't even make this guy's case. Think about it....ask 100 Bulls fan who the Bull's best two players were last season. How many would say Miller? Brad Miller wouldn't even say Brad Miller. None of this changes the fact that this guy is wrong, eh?

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    Great point, anyone that believes that Brad Miller was the second best player on our team last year is stupid themselves... It was obviously D. Rose

  • That team doesn't win more than 30 games. They are solid but not good at offense or defense. Stars win in this league and that team has nothing close to one. I might be pesimistic but I can't see the bulls winning more than 41 games, I would say they will miss the playoffs. BG means more than most think.

  • I disagree a bit. Yes, teams like the cavs, heat, hornets will struggle to win 30 games without their stars because those are the top 3 guys in the league. But teams like the Magic, Lakers, Celtics, Rockets, Nuggets, JAzz, 76ers could do it. The magic would be able to sneak into playoffs with nelson, carter, piertus, lewis, bass, gortat. THe Lakers are still a decent team without Kobe, not contenders but they are still decent. The Mavs probably won't make it without dirk but they barely made it with him so thats not saying much and the suns missed the playoffs with a healthy nash but were still competive without amare for half the year. A lot of teams can still be playoff teams without one of their stars, the rockets, 76ers, celtics and jazz all did it this past year. They were always down a star this year. Our problem is that we gave away a star in BG and without Rose we would have none. Thats the same with teams like the Cavs and heat that are pretty much just a top 3 player and weak cast. But Rose will likely never be top 3 so making business moves to be giving away borderline stars like BG hurt a lot.

  • Rose was pathetic on D last season, startaling bad.

    However,Rose was only learning how to play NBA defense, unfortunately Gordon was his mentor or role model. O.K. he wasn't a mentor, that would imply active invovolement.

    Gordon is the most pathetic defender that I have ever had the displeasure of watching in the NBA. He simply quits on nearly every play that doesn't involve him shooting, offensive or defensive. and I have spent entire games doing nothing but watching him on Tivo, try it sometime, it will make you puke.

    As a player it becomes really hard to bust your but all the time, when one guy just Jakes it all the time and gets away with it because he can actually hit 2 bad shots in a row once in a while.

    Rose did nothing more than emulate his veteran leadership. I expect much more from him this season.

    You watch the Bulls will look like a different team this season(defensively) and the main reason will be the absence of Gordon.

  • The Bulls average record during the Ben Gordon "era" was 42-40.

    That about sums up what Gordon means to the Bulls or any other team winning, aboslutely nothing, you might as well flip a coin. the Pistons and their fans will find out this season.

    The Bulls will win more games this season without him than they would have won with him.

    Salmons averaged only one basket per game less than Gordon last season, and had higher shooting percentage, even from 3. Deng will add 3-5 ppg to his average from last season and Rose should add 2-4 more ppg. Hinrich, will probably average a couple more ppg than last season. That puts us up several ppg, before we even take into account team defense and chemistry, or the improvement or addition of any other players.

    Really, what is the difference between Gordon and Jamal Crawford, other than Crawford having legitmate NBA height, and now they have the same bad contract.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Great point. Even the people in Detroit are pissed at Dumars for spending the money in 09 instead of waiting for the 2010 summer. It will be interesting to see how all of these BG lovers react when we use the same money we could have wasted on him to sign a much better player next summer.

  • Every thing D. Rose has shown us so far points in the direction of a guy who will stop at nothing to become a complete player; Gordon on the other hand was and is the player he always wanted to be... He's not interested in defense and never will be... On the other hand, expect to see a different Rose on the defensive side of the ball as he continues to grow and mature...

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