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Defamed? Lincoln Park business files suit over puppy mill protests

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Molly Horan

I am a recent graduate of DePaul University raising the temperature of journalism in Chicago with wit and fury! I won't work for peanuts, but possibly cashews, or frequent flyer miles.

As Chicago gasped at its first snow sighting of this season Thursday, Pawsh Puppies
of 2120 N. Halsted is feeling the chill a little more than the rest of us.  A defamation lawsuit just filed by Pawsh Puppies against the stream of protesters campaigning against their Northbrook and Lincoln Park stores over the last month is asking: 

 

Shut up, Save A Pet, INC., and pay up!!!

 

Fellow ChicagoNow legal blog Chicago Bar-Tender details the lawsuit accusing @PuppyMilProject, the not for profit Save-A-Pet, of defaming activism that could irreparably harm the business. Concern flurries throughout the filing that the holiday sales this season could suffer after online and on-the-street demonstrations of the activists "adopt-only" campaign.  

 

The suit claims that Pawsh has been indefinitely stalled in plans to expand the operation in two locations that would be leased by their Northbrook site's management company after video and other messaging tactics were used by Save-A-Pet to insist Pawsh Puppies is supplied by puppy mill breeders.

 

So how is Lincoln Park business doing?   Very pawsh, indeed, if you visit the company's Facebook page. 

 

 

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Pawsh puppies, a boutique tea cup and toy breed pet shop with Lincoln Park and Northbrook locations is suing Save-A-Pet, Inc./@PuppyMilProject for defamation. Their Facebook status on 11/28/09, after the last protest on Halsted claims a day of record sales despite the protesters "evil efforts."

 

On Friday, Lincoln Park Now sought some answers from store manager, Alex Gershbeyn, who gladly outlined their case to Lincoln Park Now.   After weeks of steaming commentary tailing Pawsh's headlines on the web, questions have hovered around the company's lack of public disclosure naming their "caring, reputable breeders."  Testimony by animal welfare advocates and consumers is challenging what qualifies a breeder as a puppy mill. 

 

Is Pawsh Puppies in peril?  

 

"No, not at all," Gershbeyn said, at the beginning of a conversation he wasn't sure he should be having at the beginning of litigation.   But it didn't stop there. 

 

To Pawsh, the issue is clearly a case of "unfair competition" from the shelter community condemning breeding altogether, and as a result, Pawsh Puppies and their customers.  Strategizing the puppy mill cause has meant demonstrations of 30 or more protesters picketing the stores on several recent weekends with signs and shouts of puppy mill patronage.  Gershbeyn compares this to CVS pharmacists standing outside a Walgreen's spreading lies about their products.    

 

"When the public thinks of puppy mills they are thinking of horrific, grotesque places where parents and their puppies are mistreated. We are very against puppy mills.  I am just as against them as these people," Gershbeyn says.

 

Warning their detractors of a coming trip to court was published by Pawsh in the commend thread following Northbrook's Pioneer Press coverage of an earlier suburban protest last month.   While debate unfurls on Lincoln Park Now's coverage of Nov. 21 protests
staged outside of Pawsh Puppies on Halsted, criticism continues to examine the background and repute of Pawsh's alleged suppliers, directly fueling both the protesters' missions and Pawsh's legal response.

 

And the campaign slamming Pawsh is only growing.  The Chicago Dog Training Examiner took this stab at Pawsh this week, citing the dictionary to support the claim that any for-profit breeding venture is a puppy mill.   This is echoed in much of the commentary crawling their media coverage around the web,.  Though puppy mills have increasingly run into recent trouble with the Cook County sheriff, many commenters assert that USDA certification and federal standards provide minimal proof that Pawsh's suppliers adequately protect their animals from substandard living conditions.

 

So is this a semantic battle?

 

"There are breeders that are good, kind, warmhearted people that care about their puppies," Gershbeyn maintains. "How can the definition include, oh, how about the best show dog breeder, or the best maltese breeder? They are still selling their dogs. In [Save-A-Pet's] estimation every breeder is a puppy mill. They are not distinguishing breeders that are good breeders, reputable breeders that care, have a long history, and call us to find out if their puppies have a good home.  We are."

 

Much of the backlash against Pawsh aims to unravel their defense that the USDA certifies their breeders and meets federal standards upon inspection.  But Pawsh says the breeders to worry about are those that sell directly to the general public and evade governance altogether.

 

Gershbeyn stated Save-A-Pet makes it irresistible join their cause dedicated to stopping puppy mills, but that Pawsh and other retailers are taking the heat for working with any breeder, period, Amen.   One sale was lost after protesters told a customer that Pawsh's suppliers ship their puppies in restrictive crates and have occasionally arrived dead, though Gershbeyn insists this is a total lie, and reflective of how the Puppy Mill project recruits their volunteers.  

 

He says it's brainwashing, crazy, and evil. 

 

The case has been hammered around the web that Pawsh could easily list their suppliers to quell the concern.   Gershbeyn explains that hasn't happened because it's a mistake to alert their competition, but that all customers are provided information about where a puppy is bred, and that allows every potential customer the opportunity to research and contact the breeders before spending any money to purchase a Pawsh puppy, which costs between $800 and $1500. 

 .  

Lincoln Park has been a successful base for the teacup puppy retailer. The clientele, their "Pawparazzi," though, are annoyed, Gershbeyn says, by the harassment of the Puppy Mill Project, and he says the lawsuit will go on until they win.

 

"We filed a lawsuit because at the end of the day, if we didn't, it would be a bunch of he said, she said.  But they are spreading lies and slander and you can't do that to someone working really hard. Our sales have not suffered, we're doing great, because at the end of the day everyone believes that they should get a choice. If people are comfortable buying our puppies nothing they do or say is going to change their mind."

 

So, Lincoln Park, Pawsh has spoken, but we have questions.   They claim they are selling humanely treated and cared for puppies to your community.   They claim the puppy mill activists are spreading lies about them to kill the pet shop market and bolster shelter sales.   This topic has been heating on the web for weeks.   Has Pawsh Puppies responded sufficiently?   What do you think of a lawsuit limiting the speech of activists to provable statements?   How would you choose between a shelter and a pet shop surrounded by puppy mill allegations?  

 

 

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147 Comments

offended1 said:

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People find out if they call the breeder, as to how much the puppies cost. Why not spill the beans here for everyone, it would just make things easier - for both parties. Breeders are non-puppy mills and the puppy mill project goes away, and your business increases or stays the same.
Everyone sells these dogs for the same markup, people just want to know. I don't think protesting has crossed it's bounds since the 60's and suing is not the answer. Never is IMHO

Roman said:

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It is such a shame that a pet store would consider a animal shelter, that isn't even in Chicago, competition. They save lives! They are not competition for thousand-dollar sickly puppies. This lawsuit is frivolous.

Roman said:

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They're selling PREMATURE puppies. (read below)

"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "TEACUP" PUPPY".

The American Kennel Club (AKC) recognizes 21 canine Toy breeds, or breeds of diminutive stature. The term “teacup dog” is not a breed, but slang for an undersized dog. Good breeders never use this term!

One commonly found medical problem among teacup dogs is hydrocephalus, or “water on the brain.” Fluids build in the brain, causing pressure against the skull. Often a teacup dog suffering from this condition will have bulging eyes and a stressed appearance. It might also be “wobbly,” having difficulty walking or holding its head steady, though these symptoms aren’t always present. There is no cure for this condition, but when it occurs in humans, a shunt is placed in the brain to drain the fluids into another point in the body where it can be flushed by natural processes.

A teacup dog might also have thin, weak bones, blood sugar disorders and other medical problems arising from unfavorable genetic factors.

One reason for the problems associated with these tiny dogs is that many are the result of mating two runts to produce very small offspring. Runts, while deserving of a good life, often have medical issues that, when bred with another runt (or even a healthy dog), weaken the offspring and breed rather than strengthen it.

A “teacup dog” can sell for upwards of $1,000 US Dollars (USD), providing a strong financial incentive to "backyard breeders" and puppy mills to purposely breed dogs that are not genetically fit. By placing a demand on this market, consumers unwittingly encourage this practice of turning out compromised dogs, many of which live their lives with numerous problems that ultimately lead to exorbitant vet bills and shortened life spans.

If a teacup dog is desired, perhaps the best thing to do for the breed and your wallet is to contact a local reputable breeder and request a very small puppy from one of their litters. Ask for and verify pedigree or champion lines, though if you want actual papers this will cost extra and isn't required unless you plan to show the dog. Even acquiring the "runt" from such a litter should have far fewer genetic risks and, providing it is healthy at birth, should fare better in the long run with a higher chance of living a long, healthy life than the average "teacup dog" found elsewhere.

It seems as though there is a plethora of people who are insistent on buying tiny puppies in the 2 to 4 pound range. Also commonly referred to as a "Teacup puppy".

The word "Teacup" has been used to merely describe the size of a puppy, meaning it is very small and will probably be under the standard size which is 4 to 7 pounds for the Toy Group, Yorkshire Terrier breed. We cannot imagine anyone wanting anything smaller than that! Their bones are VERY fragile and can be broken by jumping off of a couch, falling off of a bed, being stepped on or worse.

Many breeders, while tacking a whooping price on a puppy, "claim" to breed so called "teacups" as if they were a breed all their own. Don't be fooled! They are NOT a breed of their own. Don't buy mixed breeds! They are not "designer" they are made to fool you into paying for a mutt you can find at a shelter.

If a pet store or breeder says they specialize in "teacups" RUN, RUN, RUN for the hills! Most "TEACUP" puppies are in reality, a premature puppy, or an unhealthy breeding from runts.

Most females are bred on the ninth through the fifteenth day of their heat cycles. Eggs can be fertilized for up to 72 hours after any of these breeding's. Therefore, it is possible to have puppies conceived up to a week or so younger than the puppies first conceived in a litter. However, when the first puppies conceived are mature and ready to be born, labor starts and all the puppies will be born, no matter when they were fertilized.

Some of the problems that may be encountered are both genetic and congenital in these tiny babies and the list is a long one.

The risk of open fontanels (soft spot from the cranial bone not forming), portosystemic shunts (PSS- abnormal vessel that allows blood to bypass the liver. As a result the blood is not cleansed by one of the bodies filters: the liver.), hypoglycemia, cardiac problems, collapsing trachea, luxating patellas, Leggs Calves Perthes disease, seizures, hydroencephaly, blindness and digestive problems can be increased in these tiny babies.

Problems such as respiratory problems can remain or worsen throughout their lives. These babies frequently are so fragile that they do not live more than a few years. There have been several tiny Yorkies as adults who still had open fontanels and their owners had to carry nourishment with them all the time. Their vets have felt it unsafe to give a full dose of vaccine so the puppies had to get several injections to be on the safe side.

There is no such thing as a "tea cup" Yorkshire Terrier, Maltese, Poodle, or any other breed for that matter. They simply do not exist. "Tea-cup" is just a marketing ploy given by unethical and unscrupulous breeders to drive up the price of their puppies!


So called "Teacups" fetch anything from $1000 to $10,000! This is ridiculous and shameful! There are a lot of chronically, unhealthy puppies because unscrupulous breeders and puppy mills are inbreeding. Some poor darlings only live for a very, very short time!

They take the little teeny, tiny Yorkies and they breed 2 1/2 pounders with 3 pounders ... well, they’re playing with genetics. You should NEVER breed a female of any breed less than 5 pounds.

PLEASE educate yourselves before buying a tiny puppy whether it is a Yorkie or any other breed. You could be in for months or years of heartbreak not to mention staggering veterinarian bills!

If you want a healthy puppy, never fall for the "teacup" act. Teacup puppies are also very bad choice for children, they are too delicate.

Lifesadance2 said:

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The management of Pawish offers breeder information to the consumer prior to purchase. It is the responsibility of the consumer to make an educated decision on their purchases be it a puppy or a tube of toothpaste. It would be business suicide to publish the suppliers of a product no matter WHAT business you are in. Buyer beware and be confident in your purchase. If the groups who would put a stop to the selling of unhealthy puppies were themselves, informed about pet shops like Pawish, perhaps they would redirect their frustrations toward more deserving establishments.

Roman said:

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Caveat Emptor certainly applies to puppy stores. It is a purchase you will almost always regret because they have so many health problems.

Rumgirl said:

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I don't understand all the garb coming from these groups as they are so bent on cutting down a reputable store or all puppy breeders, but if people would go into some of the shelters and look at the dogs there it is horrible. They don't keep feed and water in front of them all the time and they are definitely crammed into little cages. Plus they are not socialized or loved. Yet these rescue groups will not help shelters to get some of the dogs, puppies or cats out of there and into homes. They are more interested in running around to breeders and buying puppies from them. Guess what it is sad to say but they are just trying to be a pet store that doesn't want to pay the price of the building. I also think all the rescue groups that sit around begging for donations should spend a little of the donations on the dogs that need help. They should also have to show proof of where the money they get comes from and where it is spent. Put it to use on actually helping animals that need it and not on just trying to stir up trouble where it doesn't need stirring and then begging for more donations. I actually feel sick at my stomach any time I hear someone talking about animal rescues. They are a bunch of loud mouth people that are just out there to see how much attention they can get for themselves and in the long run they do nothing to help animals.

ChicagoShowDog said:

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^^^Ignorant. Non-for-profits DO have to show how they spend money. You don't know much, sorry, keep doing your research.

MHarrison said:

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I agree. My sister in law used to work at a shelter and she has some serious horror stories. Dirty, cold and neglected.

offended1 said:

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Shelters don't squeeze out profits - they work with volunteers.

USDABreeder said:

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Yeah while the CEO's pay themsleves very pricey wages.

Roman said:

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Pet shop workers will tell you "the dogs come from private breeders." This is true, since any person who combines a male and female dog can be called a "private breeder."

Don't fall for the salesmanship! Of course they're going to say their puppies come from a nice place, that's what EVERY pet store says.

By buying a dog from a pet shop, you are sentencing its parents to a life in the hell of a puppy mill. Like almost everything in life, puppy mills come in all varieties: the not-so-bad, bad, and really bad. Dogs are confined to cages or runs for their entire lives with only one purpose- breeding. These dogs are never kindly touched by a human, and many never see grass, blankets, or toys. The food provided is often of the lowest quality. Shelter from the elements is often minimal, and these dogs have obviously never seen the inside of a house. The saddest thing is that much of this is licensed and approved by the Department of Agriculture. This department is also responsible for inspections, and violations are rarely enforced. Why? There are over one thousand (1,000!!!!) puppy mills licensed in Missouri. Inspecting each one takes a bit of effort and manpower, which the overworked department lacks in Missouri! Then consider the illegal, unlicensed puppy mills that the Department doesn't even know about.

How can you stop the cruelty? Tell your friends: Boycott any store that sells puppies!!!
If the pet shop goes out of business, the puppy mill will have one less place to sell their dogs, and will go out of business eventually too!

Roman said:

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To sink so low as to slander shelters, that is pathetic. You must be a worker at the store that is suing.

Roman said:

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People will ask the store clerks if the puppies come from Puppy Mills. The TRAINED salesperson will say something to the effect, "no, our puppies come from private breeders", or "no, our puppies come from local breeders", or "no, our puppies come from USDA inspected kennels". Most people are satisfied with either of those answers. It's something all pet stores do! A private breeder could mean anyone, there are no "public" breeders, it's just a sales tactic.

Most pet stores that deal in large numbers of different breeds are obtaining their puppies from the infamous "Puppy Millers". Puppy mills have only one purpose; to turn a profit. They breed for quantity, not quality, and never health check their animals.

Puppies from these places are probably not properly socialized, vaccinated or wormed.

There is no consideration given to true breed type or correct temperament. The parents may live out their entire lives in cages. You have as great a chance of being able to predict the eventual looks and temperament of a puppy mill bred pure bred as you do of a mutt from the pound.

Don't fall for the sales tactics.

GOOD FOR THEM FOR STANDING UP FOR WHAT THEY KNOW TO BE TRUE!

offended1 said:

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They are "designer dogs" not mutts, lol. People just started taking accidents and continuing to breed. I know several people that bought from pet stores and are plagued with seizures, joint problems, and one with a heart condition. I know more people that have adopted dogs and no serious conditions, including my own dogs.
The stores, like you said, are all trained to say the same thing. It's like a broken record and people believe them.

USDABreeder said:

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ROMAN??? What are they suppose to say??? Basically that is the truth Pet Stores buy from Private breeders. USDA breeders. There is no legal definition for the term Puppy Mill. It is a made up defamatory term used to degrade. Not educate. It is loosely defined in some lawsuits. But the Ars themselves keep adding to it and taking away from it. Constantly changing the term. If they cared about Animals they would define it so as people could avoid. But then again the Ars want to make the term so unreasonable that no one would be able to afford or reasonably breed another dog. Why is it if a Pet Store sells a dog your kind calls it a puppy mill. A bad choice. Trying to scare the new pet owner into believing the Animal they bought was no good. Which is some cases forces the people to get rid of the new pet. BUT!!!! You people get the same dog in your shelters all the sudden it is a worthy Animal Better then anything else a Private person can purchase??

DONT FALL FOR RESCUE TATICS!!! NEXT IT WILL BE YOUR CHILDREN

Roman said:

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What are you saying, you are going to start mass-producing children next???? OH that is just sick to say. I would stand up for any child cruelty, too! Neuter your poor dogs and get a real job other than selling living creatures at the dog's expense. We are not radical people at all, we simply have a heart. We love our pets as most people do, and we care about what goes on. We boycott any pet stores, all across the nation people are doing this! Pet stores are going out of business across the country, and the puppy mills are taking to the internet to sell their often sickly products.

Puppy mills are commercial dog breeders. Thats the definition!

Bad Kennels Stay in Business
One of the most common complaints about the USDA from animal advocates is that breeders can have repeated and long-standing violations, but continue to sell hundreds of puppies to pet stores. There are many reports of large, USDA-licensed Minnesota kennels that have multiple USDA violations and dozens of reports of sick puppies sold in stores. Note that some have even been investigated by local news stations and have been charged with animal cruelty by the state.

Commercial breeder IS puppy mill breeder.

The AKC even has a High Volume Breeders Committee (another term for puppy mill) that gets the business hook ups with the mills.

he US Department of Agriculture seems like a strange entity to be in charge of regulating the puppy industry, but that’s how it works. To be clearer, the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Services (APHIS) is the arm of the USDA in charge of regulating puppy mills under the Animal Welfare Act. There are currently 5,913 dog breeders and brokers with USDA licenses. People often wonder whether there is a list of all the puppy mills in the country. Well, the USDA is the first place to look.

Oprah Winfrey aired an hour-long show about puppy mills, exposing their cruelty, and the same day, the USDA published a FAQ on animal dealers. Note the paragraph to the right—the first frequently asked question: “who regulates puppy mills?” Answer: the USDA.
**Note that the USDA has since changed the language to read: "Who regulates commercial dog breeders?" It used to say PUPPY MILLS.

While many people may be familiar with the term "puppy mill" few are aware of the magnitude of the horrors associated with them. Puppy mills are facilities that mass-produce puppies for sale to individuals or for pet stores throughout the country as well as to emerging foreign markets. From back yard breeders to those selling via the Internet, thousands of puppy mills aren't even regulated or inspected by the USDA since they sell directly to the public. At present a USDA license is required for anyone with four or more "intact bitches" who sells "wholesale" to brokers (dealers) or directly to pet stores. Whether they are born in a licensed facility or not, puppies face a dismal and uncertain fate at the hands of individuals who are motivated by greed. Some die while being transported to pet stores or shortly thereafter and others find themselves in the hands of irresponsible or abusive guardians.

Dogs used for breeding suffer an endless misery imprisoned in small cramped cages, often soiled with their own excrement, breeding litter after litter till they can no longer reproduce.

A few Midwestern states are home to the largest concentration of puppy mills in the country, the majority of which are USDA licensed. Many of the operators of these puppy mills hold other jobs and utilize mass-production methods to produce what they and government regulators consider an agricultural commodity. In a typical puppy mill the dogs are fed in the morning and again in the evening. Cleaning, sanitation and general maintenance are addressed as time permits, usually during the weekend, if at all. Most of these facilities are in rural areas and are family operated to supplement a modest income. In previous years USDA inspectors conducted at least one unannounced inspection per year at these facilities, however, federal authorities have recently adopted a "risk based" inspection program. Operators are given the opportunity to correct non-compliant items (technically, violations of federal law) that are disclosed during the inspection. If upon reinspection the violation or "non-compliant item" is not corrected, enforcement action should be taken in an effort to improve conditions at the facility. Inspection policies have deteriorated to such an extent that operators of these facilities can operate indefinitely with repeated disclosure of "non-compliant items." The emphasis has dramatically shifted from the "welfare" of the animals to commerce. A factor that no doubt has contributed to this phenomenon is the decline in traditional small family farms.

Although some of the larger breeders house thousands of dogs in their facilities the average puppy mill will house between 65 and 75 animals, most housed in hutch-style cages with wire floors. Fecal matter drops to the ground below and waste accumulates beneath the cage, providing a haven for flies and other vermin. Even with fairly prompt removal of waste the ground becomes permeated with stench because the urine cannot be raked away. Dogs housed in indoor facilities endure an equally deplorable existence with ammonia vapors and odors permeating poorly ventilated buildings. Rodents, flies, and other pests plague the animals almost constantly. Solid surfaces are supposed to protect the legs of puppies; however, as they mature and scout out their surroundings feet and legs often fall through wire floors designed to allow fecal matter to fall through. The resulting injuries compound their misery. Their soft coats of fur become soiled with fecal matter that didn't drop through the
cage adding insult to injury.

The unlicensed puppy mills generally sell puppies at six weeks of age while federal licensees are prohibited from selling puppies under eight weeks of age. In any case, the puppies are "harvested" and cleaned up for the trip to the broker or individual buyer. They are bathed to clean up feces and odors they have accumulated during their brief lives in the puppy mill. Pus is wiped from their sad and scared eyes just before they are shoved into whatever is convenient, with any luck an approved shipping container. An uncertain and perhaps cruel future for these babies thanks to an industry oblivious to moral and social responsibility. More info at(http://www.idausa.org/facts/pmfacts.html)

USDABreeder said:

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Roman,

First off where do you think pets come from? They are not grown on trees. If a person has an expertise .and do not get to do what they are good at. Well I guess that expertise will become extinct.

As for your definition of Puppy Mills. APHIS was Approached by this and found they were wrong. The reason it was removed from the web site.

Puppy Mill is a derogatory term Associated with Animal Abuse. And, your kind is trying to cover the entire commercial canine breeding industry as Animal abusers.

You are dangerous for the fact that you seem to believe the lies you are writing here.

Pus wiped from their sad scared eyes, what total garbage are you writing? Maybe you hanging out in shelters too much.

Your mythological story here does not represent All USDA breeders . I have been in disgusting shelters who use fire hoses to wash kennels with mother dogs with puppies still in them. Have I tried to paint all Shelters like this?? A huge percentage of shelters ( actually I don't know a single shelter that does not on occasion have a disease problem). Due to the fact of street animals being mixed in with pet animals and the animals had limited vet care before arriving in the stressful situations.

Too bad study is not done to prevent these situaiton.Oh I know why you don't use donations for this. Because it would help Breeders too, and you don't want competition.

I can get just as descriptive as you on the horrors of rescues and shelters. Probably more so. At least the Commercial kennel dogs re not wallowing in the feces and urine as they would if they were on concrete. Which is extremely abrasive to their feet and body parts. It also holds in cold. And has a tendency to pull heat from the bodies further stressing the already stressed animal that is most cases is not use to being confided.

APHIS requires coated wire which is not bad for the feet. Most kennels have new innovated perforated flooring such as tender foot and a product made of plastic that is very easy on the feet, and does not conduct heat, cold, or bacteria growth.

Buildings with high ammonia are written up and forced to install correct ventilation systems. With new kennels there may be trail and error due to the fact there are simply no studies and very few examples.

As for endless misery in small cramped cages. That is very bogus. Most all kennels exceed minimum kennel size requirements. Weather permitting most kennels use exercise yards. As for Oprah she did as much investigation of that story she air as a newborn does learning to speak.

Your hutches are becoming the thing of the past. If they had proper flooring they were not so bad but not good for extreme weather unless they are in an indoor facility. the little dog houses connected to them were rather nice.Dogs seemed to like the cave experience in the attached little house.

Most of the video was old footage that is used over and over again.

The Minnesota breeder I am sure were are talking about the one where the CAPS investigator went under cover and staged gruesome pictures. The bulldog type dog with the bad wound. Was placed in a kennel with another male and a female in heat while he videoed them beating each other up. He took a mastiff and locked it out to starve it to death to have a skinny dog picture. That dog from what I am aware of died because of that CAPS terrorist. That kennel was one of the few kennels with over 1,000 dogs. She depended on Employees. APHIS did not find her in violation. But she did close down. Her kennel is now under her daughters name. She fed her dogs cooked food every day.

Bad kennels do not stay in business. Dogs are not as resultant as you AR money beggars try to convince the public they are. Ask any layman who ever had a litter of puppies. Very rarely do they have a complete litter that lives especially in the toy breeds .Larger breeds are much forgiving.

I hope the layman picked up your direct attack on them when you stated irresponsible guardians. In truth they are called owners. As much as we love our dogs they are still property and the public needs to be warned about your guardianship ploy.
To the layman if the Animal Rights movement gets it passed that an Animal is appointed a guardian not an owner as it is now. You will loose ownership.They will no longer be property. As they are now. They will then be able to appoint a representative of that animal and sue you for damages. If they suspect or even insinuate that you may not have taken you dog to the vet fast enough. Kept it in a clean enough house. or did not train your dog in the manner they approve, or even bred your dogs. because that wont be allowed. God forbid if a neighbor catches one of your children or elderly people handling the dog in a manner they deem inappropriate. I am sure by that point they will be the only people allowed to breed for dogs and cats. Dogs will be worth thousands maybe even upward to ten thousand dollars.
They most likely will be keeping them on cruel concrete, or dirt flooring that harbors parasites. You will never own the animal and it can be taken form you,.and you can be forced to pay a pet alimony for the rest of its life.

What I ask you directly Roman What kennel would please you Animal rights activist? I have asked your leaders before and I could not get an Answer. Because YOU HAVE NONE! You have done zero study on what would be more beneficial to kennel dogs. Which are perfectly happy in kennels. They are pack Animals who like caves and small areas to sleep where they feel secure. Canine behaviorist even state these facts.

I was at a seminar and kennel design the speaker built over priced shelters. Nothing was discussed about Animal Comfort. All was about the lobby .I was told to hang plants around my kennel that is what people like. Those plants don't help my dogs??? My dogs could care less what color the building was.

In reality You are the greed monger. and if You freaks get a foot hold.

You will then use your knowledge to attack people on how they care for their children. That is a very easy quick step up. Granted you would loose 80% of your front warriors because most of them don't like humans too much.
It would not take long to replace them with new warriors nobody wants to see suffering children. Your kind works so well with painting suffering over your real goals of total control. Which in reality always ends with Money.

Project on those you wish to destroy, before they figure you out, so you control the labeling.
That is what your kind has always done. For every thing you call us.You yourselves are guilty of. Usually 100 times worse too.
How many dogs do most rescues have on hand?
The new foster idea is great but in rescue kennels there are some with simply hundreds of Animals living in kennels.
Unlike breeders.
If you can not sell them.They get murdered.
If they have an illness instead of treating them for simple colds. You murder them.
You even sell sick Animals and do not help the public pay vet bills. ( most likely not knowing they are harboring something about to effect the animals)
You sell Animals that are not good for certain families even with your silly rigorous screening processes. People can lie, and shelters will give up dogs if they get big enough donations.
Dogs are not kept in kennels that are cohesive with comfort in most shelters and rescues.
And there are huge problems with rescue hoarders and rescues who also breed.
Rescues and shelters are now importing dogs from third world countries to meet demands in areas with a high demand and not enough dogs.
Instead of funneling dogs from over stocked areas. This is mostly due to breed popularity and supplying types of dogs that are easier to sell.
You buy form auctions and beg from breeders over stock and defected puppies.
This harms the breeding industry and gives easy access for breeders to dispose of litters that should not have been bred.
Which causes more bad litters to be bred.
When you import dangerous diseases have been brought to this country.
There are now rescue Pet Stores who buy dogs from third world countries instead of funneling them from over stocked places that will be forced to kill healthy dogs.
You protest stores then demand the store owner sell dogs you supply which is full out black mail.This was done to two stores One pets of belair and American kennel in NY. Both Best friends claimed they would stop protesting if the pet store only sold Animals they supplied them. Best Friends is now protesting another store in California. Run by some crazy producers wife

threedogmom said:

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USDA breeder I see you are pro puppy mills.
I think you are in left field.
There are many responsible breeders out there.
They socialize the dogs provide food and shelter and are educated in the field.
One example would be the monks of new skete.
Then there are the type of breeders where dogs are stacked in crates covered in feces and they live in a cage their whole life.
Many pet stores do not visit their breeders and put blinders on to avoid the truth.
One other comment compared buying a dog to toothpaste.
Whoa I hope they are not a dog owner.
I could go on and on about the ignorance some people display.

pupmommy said:

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Wonderful, logical, and smart comment! Hooray! Nothing gets people's attention like the nightmare headlines and the horrific pictures that are used over and over and over to get people to donate and think these activist people are angels but they destroy good people livesand would rather hold dogs in shelters then get them into homes! They never support many of their claims and they are a bunch of "loudmoth people!"
No reaonable person likes puppy mills and all agree they shold be stopped but guys relax - not all pet shops and breeders are devils as you would lead us to believe! some of these activists are truly NUTS!

wberger2 said:

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I work with a few of these so called rescues, many of them are foster based. meaning these cats/kittens, dogs/puppies are in homes with people who are dedicated to giving them a loving, cage free environment. They ask for donations because many of us pay for food, vet bills and any other upkeep out of our own pockets.
I myself have spent $1000's on food, spay/neuter, treatment for broken jaws (a 5 week old kitten, after being thrown from some idiots car)also for many parasites, and just every day abuse from the non caring previous owner. Most of these animals come from high kill shelters. A lot of them are dumped in the country by farms, mobile home parks, and state parks, marina's and campgrounds. The dumper assumes that the animal can get plenty of food. The truth is most of them end up coyote food or road kill.
So before you condemn rescues think about it.

ChicagoShowDog said:

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Wonderful people who do rescue and often taking care of dogs from commercial breeders (puppy mill raids, busts) and from dogs purchased at PET STORES, abandoned by their owners. The pet store sure won't be there to take them back, so they end up at rescues.

Roman said:

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Thank you for doing rescue and having a heart for the animals. We have to clean up after the irresponsible breeders, and we have to take care of sickly dogs from puppy millers.

punishthedeed said:

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People are so uneducated. If a dog comes from a pet store, it is a product of a puppymill!!!!!! Reputable breeders (and there aren't many anymore) do NOT sell their dogs to pet stores because they only breed one litter every year or two and have a list of people waiting for their quality dogs so they don't need to sell their pups to petstores for $75 (the average rate they pay the mills for their stock). A good breeder is also going to let you see the parents, answer all your questions, show you all the health testing they have done, etc. Wake up people! Everytime you buy a cute little puppy, you just opened up a spot for another, thus resulting in another female in a mill being bred again! Our rescue has taken many puppymill cast offs (just got some in today) and they are not cared for, not socialized, etc. They are money making machines for the miller and when they stop producing, they are shot. Stop buying when you can get anything you are looking for through a rescue if you are patient. We have had everything from Golden Retriever puppies to Bull Dogs to the designer dogs come in (Shorkies, Morkies, ChiPoms, etc). Don't buy a dog, Adopt instead!

USDABreeder said:

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Re: Punishthedeed. People like you are the problem.
hypothetically I know you
Pet Stores do not pay 75 Dollars, you so called rescues do. You promise to find homes for defected puppies that the breeders did not have the heart to euthinize. Many times you get them free. Or you will pay up to 150 depending on the popularity of the breed of Puppy. You only take easy to sell puppies. You will by pass ugly and harder to sell puppies. Rescues have echelons and the more successful ones get the cream and force the harder to sell ones down the line. Some of the more skilled rescues will even pose as pet stores and buy the cheaper older puppies to resale as puppy mill rescues. Driving down prices. cheapening the industry further. In many cases you create bad breeders by giving market to puppies that should not have been bred. Or that should have been humanely euthnized. And the parents spayed and Neutered.
Then you call them puppy mill rescues when you know full well you got them in good faith.
And vultures like you are known for begging from all sources.
Then to try and pawn of your misfits for profit.
You openly compete with legal licensed TAX paying business. Who pay well up into the thousands for clean, healthy, well rounded ,fully socialized puppies.
Anyone can go into Pawsh Puppies and see fully socialized healthy babies.
Obviously you support only the bad breeders with your so called rescues.

I did real rescue .The feral Kittens were vetted, fed, wormed, vaccines, rehabbed. Then given away for FREE to good homes .I never begged for money. I was a REAL rescue.
Not a profit machine such as yourself.
Which I feel there should be laws against your kind.
Sure there are 75 dollar culls out there. And they are there because of people like you.
If there were not people like you giving market or giving an easy means to dispose of unsalable puppies .
Those breeders would be more particular in the way they bred their dogs.
Granted even the best intended well researched Breeding's can produce problems from time to time.
But they are greatly diminished when the breeders do not breed dogs they know will give 4 healthy puppies and maybe 2 bad ones that have to go to rescue.

USDA breeders of today do not kill unwanted animals. A large percentage of them are mothers and grandmothers. We are dog loving, family oriented people. We are not the monsters they paint us to be.We are educated and go to seminars even though most of us have over 20 years experience we continue learning.
Because with all the flack and horrible things said about us. And, how the economy and people like this rescue have made it impossible for us to make profits.
Our ranks are just breeding because we love the animals and love to spread our love of animals to others. This is not our hobby this is our job. Most of us have kennels that cost no less then thirty two thousand dollars many have invested over a hundred thousand dollars. . We spend the bulk of what we make off the puppies on our dogs.
These slimy rescues have forward people that pose as helping breeders. When they have adult dogs that did not grow to fit into their breeding program or even defected puppies, or over stock. No breeder breeds to kill puppies. Only Shelters and rescues kill healthy puppies because they can not sell them. If USDA breeders were the heartless cretins the Animal rights activist claim we were. They would not be getting pup or dog one from any of us. We would be killing them as fast as the shelters and rescues do. Which obviously is not the case.

Now rescues have found a market by slandering legal licensed and inspected businesses.
The more people buy dogs from this type of rescue.
The more misery is bred.

If a person wants to really rescue and Animal they should go to a county shelter. One they already pay for through taxes.

If they want a purebred or known cross.They should find a legal licensed business to purchase their new pet. Buying from tax paying Pet Stores or Tax paying legal licensed and inspected Breeders. Stimulates the economy.
Buying a dog from a so called rescue such as the one above . Who pays nothing as far taxes into your local economy.
Rescues like this illegal broker posing as a non profit most likely pocketing all the profits. They Bleed the dog industry and the economy. They have zero responsibility if they sell you a defected puppies which most likely it is.That is why they got the puppy. Buying from them further allows more defected puppies to be bred.

I am a USDA licensed and Inspected Breeder.
I follow Both my State and Federal laws

I have sold puppies to Pawsh Puppies.
I take great offence these slanderous comments that have no fats and use a term that has a loose definition.
The greasy wheel may get the grease but it also is an indication that it is the problem not the solution.

Dear fellow USDA breeders please stop being silent. Do not be afraid . Please it is now time to speak up. Tell the world who we are. Or else these bad people will do it for you.

ChicagoShowDog said:

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You, a USDA breeder, add to the problem. ***The taxes you pay are nothing compared to the tax dollars that are put into our municipal shelters, like City of Chicago Animal Care & Control.*** You don't stimulate the economy, that is hilarious. Your licensing fees are cheap, too. You are so full of crap it's coming out your mouth.

MHarrison said:

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You are an embarrassment. You need to find something in your life that makes you happy, not so angry. The love of a man, some hair, a hug. Go fix yourself. You are so unhappy and all you do is drag everyone down with you. I'd say Happy Holidays but I don't think that is possible for you.

Roman said:

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I think animal lovers are very much full of love! You are not. You don't have a heart for animals or the sense of right and wrong. Nothing angry here.

Pet store puppies are a gold mine for veterinarians. They are so full of heritable health conditions and genetic problems, not to mention pneumonia, bordatella, and intestinal parasites. They will often have preventable problems. I also see a lot of these premature and so-called "teacups" with hypoglycemia, liver shunts, broken legs, and more.

USDABreeder said:

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.

A kennel has to have an Attending vet who employees people pays and pays taxes.
A USDA licensed kennel supplies jobs to those working at the USDA.
The puppies sold through Pet Stores. become clients to local veterinarians who have employees and such which stimulates the economy.
If they are state inspected. More jobs. Then the dog food companies. Most breeders buy dog food by the pallet.
Then the supply companies who sell things kennels needs. (Medications example frontline and such), toys, beds, kennel supplies. Many kennels shop at local building supply places. All pay taxes and supply jobs to stimulate the economy.
Couriers who deliver the items kennels buy which are never light and increase their businesses who pay people who pay taxes who stimulate the economy.

USDA kennels also join groups which have seminars which rent conference halls and we fill the local hotels. Help those local economies.
We then ship our puppies if by truck to the stores or airlines to the private homes. Shipping also supplies tax's paying jobs and stimulates the economy.
We all advertise. Again helping those businesses pay employees which stilulate the economy.
Don't forget the pet store and who they buy from and they also employee and help stimulate the economy.

For every Puppy sold through a Pet Store there are hundreds of jobs depending on the chain of businesses that made it possible to get the puppy into the arms of the new owner.

What do rescues do?? Besides beg for money and defame legal licensed business?? Protesting, Trying to scare the public into believing the worse case scenarios represent ALL Breeders and ALL pet stores? I don't see how many of you can legally keep your non profit status. You are nothing more then terrorist.

If you wanted to really help Animals. You would raise money for real studies to help improve how we keep our pets. To try and find cures to stress borne illnesses. To Study real effects from Vaccines and early spay and Neuter.
Instead you try and force the public to believe things off of lies and your way of projecting humane emotions and biology on a species that is not human.
In many ways you cause more suffering.

Most rescues will not allow families with small children to own dogs. Or elderly people to own dogs. You really believe when you re home a animal it found a forever home .

Just as many rescue dogs fail in new homes if not more then bought dogs.

I will never forget a Aggressive lhasa looking dog of unknown cross that was brought to me. By someone I knew. Who just lost her Lhasa. She had the dog in the trunk of her car. She had just picked up this matted mess from a rescue. Because it looked like the dog she just lost. The dog was insanely aggressive to the point of no return. The women felt compelled to help this Animal who in my professional opinion needed to be humanely put to sleep. But she tried.and the dog proved to never have the desire to be anyone's pet. The dog proved to not be able to be rehabbed and the rescue would not take it back.

I have known pet stores to re home animals they have sold that did not work out.
More so then rescues including the humane society. Who will not take back animals they sold. And before you call me a liar. Many local humane societies have a strict policy not to take in street animals.They must be relinquished by an owner or someone claming to be one. Even if the animal has their tattoo or microchip. They tell you to take it to the pound. How is that responsible????

offended1 said:

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Most pet stores will "dispose" of a sick warranty animal. Rescues almost always require by contract that they get the dog back in a relinquishment.

Do hardware stores sell Oxytocin to help force the babies out when a dog needs a C-section? Funny you mentioned they can get vet supplies there. The store must sell them expired too, because inspectors find that kind of crap all the time.

USDABreeder said:

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hardware stores LOL. It is not wise to give Oxytocin before a C section. Gee you need to stay away from breeding all together passing on that type of lie. Oxytocin is used after a birth. Sometimes vets use it before to prevent a C section. Not as a prep for one. But no this is a prescription drug. Not sold in hardware stores LOL. You Ars would be funny if you were not so dangerous. Laymen really think you fools have a clue sometimes.
I will never forget a video I saw with that freak in Pennsylvania. The one from the Oprah Show. They were given . Yes Given I believe a golden retriever. They start going over her saying she was given C sections by the breeder without anesthesia. Then sewed up with twine.
What kind of crud is that? How is someone looking at a dog that had no evidence of such an insane travesty. Going to come up with that load of you know what.
First off I highly doubt someone is going to be able to cut on a dog that is fully awake. Especially a pregnant one. Then take out the uterus. While the dog is freaking out .Screaming and biting. Be able to cut her horns, and retrieve living puppies? Then sew her up with a very unsanitary item and expect the dog to live?? That dog would have been super dog. With blood that can be used to cure un curable Diseases. Those puppies would be super dogs able to survive a nuclear holocaust. Not haphazard bred animals with weak immune systems brimming with every congenital disease known to canine.
Your fantasies get more ridiculous the more you have to make up BS to look important and to shock the public into paying attention to you. Do you people lie so much that you really believe the lies? No wonder those cocker pups bought from PAWS contracted Parvo. Your side really believes it knows it all, and are just a bunch of children playing adult dress us. Poor dogs Poor dogs in your care.

offended1 said:

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"supply companies who sell things kennels needs. (Medications example frontline and such)" - Sorry I misunderstood as a home depot type.
And when I said "Oxytocin to help force the babies out when a dog needs a C-section" I should have said INSTEAD of a C-Section. I know Oxy is given to b!tches to induce labor. I worked in veterinary medicine for years, so this I know. And many breeders give them this to induce labor because a C-section costs money at a vet.
You doubt someone would cut when awake?? - didn't you say, "And, another breeder had her baby cut out of her belly."? Unless you meant the breeder as in the human woman, which I find hard to believe, you mean the dog - if you meant the dog, did the AR activist sedate the dog on site, or just cut it out??
The uterus is CUT, not removed in a C-section.
A dog could have survived being cut open and sewed with twine. I saw a yorkie hit by a car and Literally the skin from shoulders to tail was peeled forward and everything was exposed, moving organs and all. That dog was in shock, but wagging it's tail. Dogs have a high tolerance for pain, but that truly surprised me - and the dog was 14!
Enough antibiotics and a dog "can" be fine, other than the emotional trauma from the situation.
I'm not saying it's true, the twine seems a little crazy (and too thick to do properly), but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen breeders. Breeders and pet stores kill pups all the time when they are too sick, the dogs are consumer profit to them. Look up petland and bunnies - the woman was instructed by her manager to drown two sick rabbits until they died because the rabbits fought and hurt each other badly. She put a pic on facebook with the dead rabbits and a smile.
--It Happens.
Not saying you do it, and honestly, you sound reasonable - but the fact is people are after the bad ones, and there are ALOT. Just like dog auctions that the Amish run in states like Ohio. You can look it up, USDA inspectors have been denied inspections at those places and majority of dogs didn't have water in the cages during the summer.
It happens.

USDABreeder said:

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No it was a human dog breeder and she had her baby cut out of her while alive. The woman did die.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299859,00.html

With the above story that happened in Missouri. Breeders have to be very careful.

Also who would want a C section if it can be avoided. It is dangerous and both mother dog and puppies can die. Any time a breeder calls a vet for a C section. The breeder is asked to give oxytocin first. A friend of mine I recently went with to a vet for a C section. The vet was concerned she did not give oxytocin.
She in practically does not like giving it.

Again It is not something that seems possible. A huge difference between a quick accident and prolonged surgery on a fully awake animal
. A USDA inspector is only denied entry once. What you were probably reading was the people were not home or the care giver was not home.

I hear a lot about the Amish . I don't know any. Never saw an Amish Kennel. I don't agree if they have small toy breeds with no electricity.

As for the uterus removed. Some do some don't. I have seen the whole thing pulled out. I have seen a vet go in from the side. I don't particularly like it when they leave everything in and go digging.

As for breeders and Pet Stores killing pups. That is not true why would they want to throw away profit. Granted if the puppy is suffering and the pup has no way to recover or is found to have a condition that will greatly harm its quality of life.
But just to kill an Animal because you don't want to pay Vet bills. I will personally turn in a freak like that. But unlike some of the Animal Activist extremist. I will not assume this. I will collect full proof before making such accusations.
I know a lot and I mean a lot of USDA breeders. They pay a lot of money to their vets even though they themselves have a lot of experience. Experience saves you money on a vet because it helps the vet discover the problem.
There are times I will call my vet and instead of coming in I get told what to do over the phone .I am more of a holistic breeder so I do not keep antibiotics around. With exception of a few emergency basics. Sure some breeders can supply a Vet Clinic. But these drugs are labeled ( or are suppose to be) and are administered under instructions of their attending vet.
I have a friend who goes every Thursday to her vet. I am smaller. I go every two to three weeks. I have times I don't have puppies for a few months.
Bad USDA kennels don't last. They go under pretty quick or get closed down. In Missouri state inspections are much harder then USDA. State are the ones who shut down kennels not USDA. This year due to Bark Alert 100 kennels were shut down. Which is good for everyone. All of them with I believe the exception of 1 were unlicensed faculties. That facility denied entry to their USDA inspector. Who called the state who closed them down.
It is hard enough making a reasonable profit when you are doing things right .I cant imagine how someone with substandard puppies even sells them.
Breeders who sell direct to stores are also your smaller kennels. Larger kennels don't have time to sell nor want the head aches. So they sell only to brokers.

Pawsh Puppies really does buy direct from breeders . I know most all of them he buys from. Including the one you were discussing . You have to remember a few of us are connected through our organizations, local chapters, the seminars we go to, and we have our own forums.
I am the bold one that feels breeders have got to stop being so silent, and allow the public and the finger pointers to see who we are. Because great fables are being created about us.
With every psycho wannabe kennel run by people who should not even allow germs to grow on their bodies. That persons example is thrown on us as if we mimic them.
For every hobby breeder who also joins your fight . Because it helps differentiate their pups from the others and increases their profits. The fable grows. Again this side is silent.

Most are busy. Some don't even have a clue this is going on. I bet there are some USDA breeders who have no clue about the ballot initiative. We can not be so easily defined. We are all different. You can not fit all of us into any particular scenario.
If we all were uniform and exactly like each other, That would mean we were more organized.
If we were actually organized, all USDA breeders. Then this conversation would not be happening.
Attacks like these have proven timelessly, that USDA breeders need to become more organized.
But to date the bulk of USDA breeder have not become organized enough to address the issues to end all the accusations. We may have organizations but they have not been successful in organizing us and displaying our true image to the public. Sadly many breeders are suffering this .While the very Organized Animal Rights movement is hitting us like Hitler's army.

threedogmom said:

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USDA breeder how can we visit your facility?
Maybe if USDA breeders post videos or have tours so you can demonstrate your knowledge and how you care for the dogs.
Then people won't assume you are abusers.

Roman said:

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offended1 is correct. Pet stores will destroy sickly animals who are returned. Or maybe they will even try to re-sell them, who knows.

C-sections are expensive. I have seen people crop their own dogs ears, and I would not put it past one of these USDA Breeders to think they know-it-all and perform their own Cesarean Section.

Roman said:

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Not true, once again.

This is what REALLY happens to families who have a pet store dog. They bring the dog to the vet, and it (more often than not) has serious health issues. They already paid 500-2000 for the puppy, which was not even spayed or neutered yet. A lot of these dogs will need procedures and surgeries that cost thousands.

Owners can either:
1. Pay for it, put on a credit card (aren't enough Americans in debt??) or apply for CareCredit (if they have a decent credit history)

2. Euthanize the dog

3. Ask for donations from the community

4. Relinquish the dog to a rescue, who may or may not be able to pay for the medical bills

Or some can return the puppy and get a new one, depending on how many hoops they have to jump through, and what the medical condition is. The pet store will euthanize their dog and give them a new one. This is not always easy, as most guarantees are written in a way where nobody can actually get anything out of the pet stores.

Roman said:

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Insidious comments. You are full of it. You like to talk bad about rescues? That's sad.

To you, a puppy = Money, plain and simple.

You won't say who you are, what the kennel is, and that speaks volumes! You remain anonymous to hide what you really are. I'm sure I will see some puppies you've mass-produced at the office, coming in because they have serious genetic health problems that could have been prevented. But you never even meet the puppy owners, so for all you know, they never take them to the vet. If I had a litter of puppies, you'd be sure to know I would screen homes, require spay/neuter contracts, and follow them throughout life.

You, on the other hand, don't care where your puppies end up. They could be in rescues right now after the puppy store buyers dumped them! You would never know, or care.

pupmommy said:

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I agree with most EVERYTHING you say about these rescues, and activist FANATICS! They are more interested in holding their "rescue" dogs in shelters then getting them into homes! Many of them are flat out CRAZY! The main problem is that they spew out lie after lie after lie and no one refutes it and they provide very little proof - they just come off like "angels" who save puppies! I have news for them: PET STORES do NOT pay $75 for puppies! Since they know nothing about a reputable pet shop they know nothing that goes on in one! They also NEVER discuss the reputable breeders that sell to them becasue all they want to do is horrify people with scare tactics. Yes there are some horrible places but many and even most are NOT! and yes, reputable breeders (gasp!) will sell to a truly reputable store because they know the puppies will be cared for and sold responsibly...but of course the true facts don't make as good headlines as the scary made-up "facts" do they???????

offended1 said:

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USDA - If someone wanted to make the trip, could they see the sire and dam of the puppy you are selling? This is what reputable breeders offer to establish confidence in temperment.
People keep saying "reputable business" when if you look around, many don't seem to be too pleased (yelp ((I know, I know)) nor are they screaming praises. A reputable business is one that has satisfied customers and is established in the community, not a store that opened up in 2009 - this goes for ANY place of business. Just because someone isn't in the red doesn't make them reputable, bottom line.
Breeders and adopters will never agree - end of the story - because they each have different interests.
Shelters aren't excused from poor conditions, neither are USDA breeders. Shelters usually work off of volunteers, private, and tax funding, not necessarily profit and this can make things harder to manage. Many shelter dogs were once dogs gotten from pet stores, so they make that loop for whatever reason.
Rumgirl- Rescues either work with shelters, are shelters, or work with foster homes. A fostered dog will get more loving than 100 breeder dogs bar none, and majority of the other shelter dogs get attention. You may want to rethink your take on things and google a few facts. Rescues and shelters DO help the animals. Take a look around and see how many burned pitbulls and overmatted and sick lhasa apsos there are out there. The "rescues" actually provide these animals with medical care and THEN socialize and rehome AFTER a temperment test. Many dogs the are in negative in "profits".
Anyhow - it's up to the consumer to find the right choice, but proper education is a must.

USDABreeder said:

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Well Offended. I would not allow someone like you on my property. And my kennel is not a petting zoo. There have been breeders held at gun point over yorkie's. And, another breeder had her baby cut out of her belly.
We no longer live in a Pretty world and I don't trust people as yourself who rally lynch mobs over something you know very little about.
I am licensed and inspected and found to give reasonable care to my babies. What about you???? As for pawsh puppies business the only gripes I have seen about him is that he can be rude to some people. Well Gee Mc fly Some people who act like you may be deserving this.

Pawsh Puppies is a legal licensed tax paying business such as myself. Adopters seem to not understand where their bread is buttered. People like you cause DEATH. Because the more Breeders see of your side. The more Breeders will reconsider sending there culls to rescue market.
I think this is a good thing because it will make ALL USDA breeders more aware and strive harder to breed better Animals.
I am not saying they are so haphazard now. I am just suggesting there is always room for improvement and having animals that can go to rescue vultures is no longer cohesive to a healthy Kennel.
As for the many shelters dogs coming from Pet Stores. That is the biggest load of crock I have ever seen. Shelters are brimming with non descriptive Mutts and pit bull and pit bull mixes. Where do they get those non descriptive mutts? Rarely do they receive a purebred dog and the shelter has no way to prove where the animal originated from. There are many more unlicensed back yard breeders in this country and importers then there are USDA licensed Kennels. If they continue to contribute to the problem and not the solution many USDA breeders will be taking the stance that ALL Breeders and ALLL rescues need to be regulated as we are. This would stop all these childish antics immediately.
If you rescues and BYB were forced to abide by the same rules we are. Granted some states such as Missouri have these laws in place. But not for the breeder with less then 7 breeding animal which really leaves a loop hole for unethical practices.

As for the Pit Bulls. A breed I have loved. I agree there are too many of them. But I do not blame the ethical breeders of the pit bulls. Those people are needed to help prevent that great breed from becoming extinct. A large percentage of so called pit bulls out there are crosses, How and why some of them became human aggressive.

Again I am going to direct to your one sentence about breeders and adopters not agreeing. That my friend is the main problem. Because there is not legit communication. Animal are suffering and greedy people are exploiting them. And, when I say greedy, there is a hell of a lot more profit in rescues and shelters then there are for breeders and Pet Stores.
Some of us have done studies and when you have a small Animal shelter grossing 1.7 million dollars in a rural area. Even a large well to do Pet Store will have a hard time grossing a tenth of that number. Breeders are lucky if they net 1% of that number. The money has been diverted solely to rescues and rescue wannabe's . It has created rescue hoarders. Death, destruction, serious irritable harm on many hard working breeders. The greed has got to stop.


Animals are suffering this war you created only to boost your market. Even if you really believe your dogma
It is not based on a whole truth.
Yes there are bad breeders out there.
Yes sometimes they may even be licensed.
If you are an honest person you will admit that there are a lot of really bad rescues out there too.
But, the difference is. A bad USDA kennel gets found and shut down. Because we are inspected. A kennel that may be having a little problems gets written up and forced to comply. Sometimes these inspections come at times when the breeders have legitimate reason . Yet the inspectors will still write them up . So they may return and see everything is ok.

I served my country. I can honesty say kennel inspections are harder and worse then any inspection I received in the military including basic training. You join the military expecting the dorm room you are provided which you do not own to be inspected. Breeders go through a lot of scrutiny and relinquish personal security in their privacy to breed puppies for the public and pet stores.

We know better then to give entry to your kind. What most Ars do when allowed in a kennel is have hidden cameras.
They love black and white because it looks more rustic. They will purposely antagonize a kennel of dogs to get them excited enough to run around like they are insane. They will change the speed of the film to make the visual as pathetic as possible. They will go over footage looking for the one most pathetic shot. Which is not hard to do. When I am posing my puppies for photo's I sometimes get pathetic photo when a puppy is moving or what not. We all know sometimes there are photo's taken of us. We feel do not represent us well that may make us look goofey ,or fat, or freaky that we do not want others to see. Those are the photo's these people look for. If they can not find good enough footage. When they are making an article or a video. They will use a picture of someone else's dogs maybe some 50 year old footage of when things use to be bad.

Talk about what they saw at the kennel. Not mention the footage they are showing is not the facility they are discussing. Just to trick the public into believing that the lies they are creating are true and should be taken as complete facts. A Boston terrier with mange is a popular one used. A very thin mangy Maltese called shrimp is used a lot too. video footage of some Pomeranians in a grossed out room are used so much I even saw that over used one on the oprah episode along with a famous one of collies standing in the mud. Which is I believe a 20 year old case and one that was staged.


No Breeders do not allow strangers on their property any more for many good reasons. the main reasons

1. Disease control. Too many shoppers will got to shelters and other kennels .A good ethical breeder does everything to control disease
2. Criminal action. purebred puppies are often stolen and with today's open registries the thieves can easily sell them for top dollar.
3. Animal rights activist. They also will steal. They also will turn the hose onto kennel dogs during hard cold winters to stage abusive looking photo's. They act above the law.
4. With the above. Privacy is also an issue. and sometimes people think breeders homes can be visited anytime they see fit. This is why a lot of breeders sell wholesale to have a some type of normal life.
5. Insurance. It is very hard to find kennel insurance. in order to obtain proper insurance many kennels are forced to have a complete closed door kennel. Again why most sell to stores or ship out. In larger cities where people pay higher prices for puppies. There is no room or zoning for larger kennels. And it is hard to get insurance.


The public are always told the same scenarios as if all breeders are as mentally connected as Animal Rights activist

examples

Dirty and matted. Living in feces. Covered in urine and feces. little to no food and water. kept in cages their entire lives to be bred like machines. Never seeing the sun .Never touching grass. Breed over and over until their little bodies can not take it. Swollen nipples. stacked in cages so they can urinate and defecate on each other. Sore paws. legs ripped through cages. kept on chicken wire with cut feet. un socialized. broken jaws. skin conditions, unattended eye injuries. left in the cold or heat. Breeding genetically unsound animals and inbreeding.

The above scenario can not produce viable puppies. The puppies would be bald and unable to be touched by humans. That is if they live
. They will use all if not part of those descriptions even when you have video and footage of groomed fat dogs who can be picked up without muzzles or control sticks.

With exception of shrimp you never see actual pictures of these dogs. Granted I have seen pictures of shih tzu faces that needed grooming and such. But you will see those types of situations on a regular basis in the private sector.

When these so called rescue pick up bad dogs. I am sure they are finding them. This country is riddled with unlicensed breeders who really should be forced to be licensed and sent to some USDA seminars to become educated. Or they need to be forced out. If we have USDA kennels that can have animals that are matted and such They will be forced to comply. We are not allowed to have matted animals. We are not allowed to have Animals that need obvious vet care. What the rescues spout we do. We are inspected not to do. Most of us take pictures of our dogs in grass to prove that these rescues are slanderers.

Canine dentistry is a new subject one even the public has not complied to yet. But the word is getting out . In years past dogs did not get rotten teeth because they were not fed commercial food which is the main cause of tartar build up in dogs mouths. Unlike what the Animal rights fools try and convince the public that it comes from dirty water. Which again will be a huge write up for any licensed breeder.

99.9% of the fairy tales rescues say are programmed into them . I am sure some are just passionate people. Who do not want to allow suffering of animals. Especially sweet puppies in this world.
When you have all these fable makers making up these monster lies. And then you have the silent Dog Breeding community not contesting it. I assume it just makes the puppy mill myth easy to believe.
In today's world. Filled with so many injustices.
I am sure to some this seems like a worthy fight. But in reality it is doing more harm then good. The little good it has brought as in awareness over the years. That in reality has changed things for the better. Is becoming over kill and now it is doing the opposite. The accuser is now the abuser. Hard working good hearted, animal loving people are being harmed beyond repair. Rescues will even pack and attack their own. There are some former rescues on our side . Now that they see that those they are fighting with are actually the bad guys now.

follow the money. organizations worth hundreds of millions of dollars who continue to generalize large groups of people into a abusive scenario should be your first clue as to why they keep labeling instead of using their money for actual studies that can help both animals and the people who keep them

Right now the HSUS has a ballot initiative. It is the puppy mill cruelty prevention act. It openly states what a puppy mill to them is. And, to them a puppy mill is any breeder with more then 10 dogs. It calls all breeders with more then 10 dogs a large scale commercial puppy mill. It does not differentiate. It labels all breeders as puppy mills. That should really concern the public. Other non profits have used similar generalizations such as the KKK, the Skin Heads, Nation of Islam, Satanic cults, and some other groups. Jim Jones, David koresh., Charles Manson.

Disallowing a USDA breeder to be an ethical entity helps who???

offended1 said:

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You are right, the dogs in shelters are non descript because shitty breeders don't label all of their dogs and throw goofy designer names on them. And maybe having a baby cut out of the momma is less painful than being given drugs to induce labor when they need a C-section.
Of course you would not let me on your property, there is either something to hide, or you are not proud of what you do.
I'm not reading all of the BS you wrote, it's just another song and dance as to why I am wrong and you are right.

USDABreeder said:

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Ofended1
How do you think you are right? Seriously. Do you really believe ALL breeders are that bad? There is not a single USDA breeder who breeds pit bulls in the Midwest. We don't breed giant pit lab what ever crosses. Nor crosses that can not de identified. Hense non descriptive such as you see in ever shelter, and all over petfinder.com . Just because it is black does not make it a lab. Just because it has wire hair does not make it a terrier. Just because it has long hair does not make it a cockapoo. I did not write BS. I have volunteered in a Shelter. I look through petfinder. I know what rescues have to offer.
You are hell bent on seeing only what you what to see. And!!!! The problem with that you are using your one sided, very narrow minded View, which has many flaws to try and destroy ALL Pet Stores and ALL USDA licensed Breeders. How many complaints does Pawsh Puppies have of selling sick and defected puppies?? You say he gets them form these Puppy Mills that have no regard for health?

From what I know of Pawsh. They do not use Brokers. Probably why they do not have Problems as others stores may.He really does buy direct from Licensed Breeders. He is not lying about that.

I do not allow people like you on my property because if you are of the type that will try and destroy peoples lives over something someone else did that has no connection to the person you are attacking. I would say you strongly favor a criminal mind, with no remorse, or sense of human compassion.
Just like I will not allow a poison snake in my house. I will not allow you or anything resembling you on my property. Being that people like you have no problem lying and trying to pose as a buyer. I do not let any strangers on my property. Which keeps my insurance premiums down .

ChicagoShowDog said:

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Your "house" is probably a filthy trailer for all we know. I wouldn't want to go there. I have ethics, you do not. Also, the mixed breeds are usually nondescript, as one cannot tell the difference between many of them, they are all mutts equally. You breed them only for profit, not betterment of the breed.

ChicagoShowDog said:

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The reason many shelter dogs are mixed breed, is because YOU, and puppy stores, don't require any spay or neuter. Reputable breeders require non-show-quality dogs to be spayed or neutered, and if not there is a screening process.

There is NO screening process from buying from a pet store, other than just having the money.

So those people who buy from pet stores allow their dogs to breed, thereby producing more dogs to fill up the shelters.

And last time I checked, a Shorkie, Morkie, or Beagledor ARE non-descript breeds.

USDABreeder said:

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And, a morkie, shorkie, and beagle whatever makes for a large lab like cross? That looks more like a Canaan dog or a an American Dingo dog? You are not so bright . Toy breed crosses do not create the millions of non descriptive street type dogs. Famously labeled Heinz 57 that you see in rescues and shelters. I do know the public is more educated and is more likely to spay and neuter. As for selling animals without a spay neuter contract. Last time I looked I was still in America. Even though I am personally against laymen and unlicensed breeders from breeding. I do understand I am living in the USA. And it is not for me to dictate how my fellow American lives or chooses to do with their pets. The mutts I am discussing are bred from each other. They are not the product of even BYB. They are being imported in. And I highly suspect bred some where. A 4 way cross will show some resemblance. A toy bred to a large breed sticks out like a sore thumb.

As for assuming I live in a trailer. May I assume you are typing from an insane asylum on your computer privileges?

Private Profit driven rescues are stealing the sells of public shelters which inadvertently causes the deaths of millions of Animals. Petfinder.com Has helped sell 13 million dogs and cats since 1995 that breaks down to nearly 1 million extra animals in a year killed by local shelters at tax payers expense. So these rescues can make profit off of the adoption fees and donations presented to them by people who think they are doing good. The USDA breeders are only putting out roughly 150,000 puppies a year. That is barley 15% of what rescues are selling on one source only. And less then 1% are coming viva USDA breeder and 99% of that 1% comes from puppies sold or given to the rescues in hopes of finding them good homes. How many of those Animal are imported? The problem here is greedy non profits. Who in reality are just businesses trying to compete with for profit establishments. I know some of the rescues who post on petfinder I monitor them because I know they buy from USDA breeders posing as Pet Stores. But funny they rarely have purebreds on. SO I would guess the better animals are sold pretty quick and with what I know I would say these rescues can add another million or so to the numbers they take from county shelters which force them to kill more. People who want to rescue rarely purchase a puppy. People who want to buy a purebred or designer breed from a real business rarely will buy from a rescue.That is unless the rescue conforms to acting like a pet store which many times they do.

SoBeyondIrritated said:

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Dear Alex, is it?
Well, well my dear looks like you have got yourself into some trouble! Haha! Looks like you are up a creek without a paddle. Awww....poor you! Can't make money selling puppies anymore? Guess you should have gone into business in a REPUTABLE career. Can't say I feel bad for you...in fact I am happy you are getting all worked up about this. That means that protesters are doing their job! YAY! You and all of these people claiming to be "doing good" and all that crap??? Please! We all see right through all of you. You should be ashamed of yourself...suing a non-profit organization based upon saving the lives of animals you make suffer. Yeah, seems like that might be logical to someone like you. You call the volunteers and protesters crazy and evil? What is it that you are doing, Alex that makes you a saint? We clean up the mess you leave behind and we are evil? Apparently you don't have any higher education and you don't understand what a puppy mill is. You do know how to lie though, but let me tell you...that doesn't take a rocket scientist. You should hear what people say about you....you are a fool. An ignorant fool. Seems like a few other people on this forum have been taking lessons from you on how to fool themselves into thinking that they are human. I happened to be near one of the protests and the things that you say were happening there???? BIG FAT LIES...but again, this doesn't surprise me coming from you. Have fun with your lawsuit. You will be fighting forever and you will never win. You will just keep losing money and continue to look like an idiot! WAY TO GO PROTESTERS!

USDABreeder said:

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One more thing Offended and pals. You rarely ever see Tiny Toy breeds in shelters or rescues such as you would see in pawsh puppies Pet Store and other stores like him. On his web site looks like he basically only buys and sells toy poodles yorkie's morkies Maltese and french bulldogs and small poo mixes.

When shelters are brimming with these types of dogs then maybe we will have something to talk about. But for now you are trying to force the public who is determined to purchase a tiny toy. To only buy very large non descriptive mutts who may possibly come of the streets of a third world country.

ChicagoShowDog said:

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WRONG AGAIN-
Nope, I have seen plenty of toy breeds in rescues. Yorkies are in the top 3 most popular AKC breeds in America, TONS of them get given up. For people moving, for biting, housebreaking, etc. Go talk to the Chihuahua breed rescues, the Shih Tzu breed rescue. Shih Tzu's are very common dogs in America, too. French Bulldogs often get given up due to health problems that owners cannot afford, they are not a healthy breed in general. Then rescues have to raise the money to pay for surgeries and meds. Shelters also get huge influxes when there are "puppy mill raids". Even at Animal Control, I saw several small mixed dogs, one was a Chihuahua mix, one was a Pomeranian. All $65, and probably originated from pet stores or BYBs.

MHarrison said:

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EVERYONE know shelters seldom have small breeds or they would go there!!

offended1 said:

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I got two small breed dogs within 2 years each with about a month of looking. It's not that bad.

Roman said:

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Wow, I have seen hundreds of dogs from rescues that are toy sized. I can go on Petfinder.com right now and show you many in the Chicago area.

My sister-in-law has a Yorkshire Terrier from a rescue, maybe 5 pounds, purebred and looks pretty close to the breed standard- closer than Pawsh Puppie's dogs. My aunt has a Poodle-mix adopted as a 16-week old puppy, I'm sure it was originally marketed as a "designer dog".

I personally know several rescues who get toy-breed dogs for many reasons: owners buy them but cannot housebreak them, the puppy chewed a shoe, the puppy shed hair, the puppy peed on the carpet, the child broke the dogs leg, the child squeezes too hard, the family is moving, the dog barks too much in the condo, and all sorts of frivolous reasons, they give them up. Pet stores will sell a puppy to anyone with the money. Even complete morons who will end up dumping them because they bark in the condo or won't litterbox train easily.

So now that puppy they spend $1,500 on is now fully vetted and up for adoption for $120.

Or at Anti-Cruelty Society all puppies and dogs are $55, including vetting. They have purebreds all the time.

If someone can't find a certain breed in a shelter, then why not go to a reputable breeder? We have established that reputable breeders never sell to pet shops. I am sure most of the rescue people also know a few good breeders. You can meet them at local dog clubs and show events. When you purchase a pup, you go to their house and see the mother dam, you see where the puppies live. Expect them to ask YOU a list of questions!!! The good breeders care where their puppies go, they have contract, this way they never end up filling the shelters.

pupmommy said:

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Guess what? This will be s shocker to you: Reputable pet shops care where puppies go! - thats what makes some of them truly reputable! (and referred, and around for years and years!)Every industry has bad and good - just open your eyes and be more open minded.

USDABreeder said:

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Well Einstein IF!!! this were true then why is the public having such a hard time finding these types of dogs in rescue? I believe you partly. Because these are the number one dogs AR's like to hoard and steal. Why did they have to have police crowd control at a Humane society. Because it was said they have a bunch of yorkies for adoption in that particular rescue? Why were people scalping places in line to get their cheap rescue yorkie's??? Because there is a higher demand for those breeds. then any other breed. And, rescues do everything to meet that demand. Which is rather sad. Because that just kills more non descriptive mutts. What you people really should be dealing with. Stop buying popular breeds to reselling your rescues!!! Stop creating false raids and stealing popular breeds from struggling Kennels!! than maybe you wont have these problems and people will not be breeding so many of these breeds. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM not the solution and you are just too greedy and ignorant to see it. If it were not because of fools like you. Breeders like me could have more control over the quality of these popular breeds and they would not be in shelters at all.Nor have health problems. STOP COMPETEING WITH THE PROFIT SECTOR!!!!!

offended1 said:

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You are right, I am a hoarder...
Moving on, did you drink a can of crazy this morning? This is barely coherent. Reselling rescues, false raids, stealing from kennels??
Stop saying YOU, because I didn't do any of that - and don't assume that others on this board have done any of that. You are depersonalizing me and it could affect my reputation so watch what you say.

USDABreeder said:

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offended you keep owning the dedcription of a hoarder??? are you one??

offended1 said:

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It's called sarcasm, which is frequently mistaken on the internet for truth. I have 3, 2 small and 1 big.
How many do you have?

pupmommy said:

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I do not agree1 Here in the northeast all you see in shelter is pit bulls, pitbull mixes and some other large breed mixes - never pet strore dogs usually from back yard unlicensed breeders. No small dogs ever - no purebreds. In fact puppies have to be brought up from other states to be rescued because there are not enough here.

offended1 said:

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I feel like I am on a merry go round. Sure USDA breeders don't do large dogs because they are harder to sell in the city with many apartments having I have plenty of compassion for humans and DO hold them in higher regard than animals because of logic and intelligence. Not being able to provide bedding at a USDA minimum of 35F (I believe) to dogs for example is just sad, and it happens more often than people think. Is the water that freezes outside, refilled or warmed somehow? - this happens alot too.
So don't label me.

danielle said:

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This is for "sobeyondirritated" lol possibly the most childish, jealous comment I've read yet. Honey, before you embarrass yourself do your homework. Oh wait, you people don't do that very well do you. This mans education is beyond all of your followers put together. I wish Alex or Laurence would comment on this but I'm sure they are to busy to deal with lifeless people such as yourself. So I need to know? Why are you "so beyond irritated"?? This store gets you that riled up? Just continue following your little cult, continue yelling "YAYYY PROTESTERS" because at the end of the day, it's you everyone talks about. Continue freezing your butts of in the snow every weekend, continue telling lies about breeders and continue decreasing property value with your irritating protests. I know when I spend the weekend with my family the last thing I want is to be bothered by protesters stopping me on the street with their b.s. Perhaps you people should really learn the meaning of a "peaceful protest" No one wants to be harassed by you and if they did I'm sure they would come up to you. Thank you for making Lincoln Park seem like an angry zoo and the stupid people that honk their horns at you disturbing my family brunch. People like this should not be allowed in a neighborhood like Lincoln Park.

furrypeanut said:

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Danielle..You speak for Lincoln Park?? Your arrogance is astounding. My friends and I happen to live there too, except we've come into the new century and realize that pet shops and the cruel treatment of the animals is oh so 1952. Many of my friends told me they were honking in support of the protest. Time to move forward baby. If you and your "friends" dont get what the protesters are about, maybe you and Paris Hilton should stop by the store and get yourself another throw away accessory dog. Pure ignorance.

USDABreeder said:

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peanut wake up

ChicagoShowDog said:

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Actually Paris Hilton adopts her little doggies! In fact, her reality show featured a dog adoption shelter, to spread the word about dog adoption.

Paris Hilton has more class than the customers of Pawsh Puppies, and that is SCARY!

I totally agree, puppy shops are soooo old fashioned and stupid, I haven't seen one in a mall since Chicago Ridge Mall, which sucked, but then closed down years ago!

USDABreeder said:

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Well Poor Paris maybe the Partying is killing brain cells if she is conforming to the AR Collective!!

offended1 said:

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God, maybe she is just trying to save an animal - that is what adopting actually is you know.

Roman said:

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Go protest outside of an animal shelter and see how long you last. Since you seem so hell-bent on ending shelters. They taking up homes for your profit-bred puppies?

ChicagoShowDog said:

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If he's so educated why did he have a horribly failed business that owed hundreds of thousand of dollars in back taxes? They ripped people off on condos lying to them, including retired people, read it, it was in the news, for anyone to see! The business was involuntarily dissolved I believe.

People who live in Lincoln Park should be educated and higher class, which means they are the least likely to be purchasing dogs from puppy stores. They are more likely to go down the street to PAWS or another reputable organization. Puppy stores are what brings property values down, it's low class. What's next, a dollar store and a rent-a-center?

offended1 said:

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Don't forget the liquor store adjacent to the currency exchange. :)

MHarrison said:

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So you're saying the "high class" thing to do is go to PAWS? Woooow, you just insulted A LOT of important high class people. Someone please tell me this brods name.

offended1 said:

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Certainly didn't offend you. Not many high class people use AND misspell BRAWD.

USDABreeder said:

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Yeah Paws Sold Oprah two puppies that contracted Parvo. Both Puppies were born and raised at a foster home .I can only assume that 1. Paws is a disease pit. Or 2. That foster home needs to be closed doen for not properly taking care of puppies

PAWS should have been proactive and had the foster give vaccines in a manner that would have protected those puppies. I see they were horribly unprofessonal so much so they caused the death and suffering of both the puppies and Oprah herself

ChicagoShowDog said:

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That is because PAWS rescued the parvo pups from a bad BREEDER. Did you not know that? Look into it more.

Roman said:

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It's interesting that mass commercial dog breeders took this one incident and had a heyday.

Parvo is a common canine virus that can happen at any shelter. Parvo can be contracted at a dog park, at a pet store, or anywhere. It is a hearty virus. I'm sure it's common in commercial dog breeding operations, and when it does happen, they euthanize the puppies instead of treating them.

pupmommy said:

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Cheers! You are right!

danielle said:

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Very impressed with USDA Breeder. You know what you're talking about and breeders should be glad you are representing them so well. I hope the public sees that these groups are not all they say they are and continue seeing that they have a choice when looking for a dog.

SoBeyondIrritated said:

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Hello Danielle! I am not embarrassed and I do not care what you say. And really? Alex has a Ph.D? Hmmm, interesting:) Alex or Laurence won't comment because they are busy being fighting a lawsuit that they aren't going to win:) Not sorry I disturbed your precious little brunch either.

danielle said:

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Well aren't you a little peach. Unlike you some of us like to enjoy our weekends with our families and not deal with protesters marching around a nice neighborhood.
Are you trying to say you have a Ph.D? because anyone who reads your comments knows that that too is a lie. And I do hope the owner of the store is putting time into this lawsuit, anything to keep you people from disrupting our neighborhood. I should not have to get bombarded with people while walking with my child and dog. You huddle around my dog and proceed to bash the store he came from. And this is suppose to be peaceful? The city needs to know that nothing you people say or do is peaceful. I speak for a neighborhood when I say, go some place else. We don't want the drama and hate near our homes. Get a life.

offended1 said:

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You are the one bringing drama and hate, wielding anger like a 13 year old.
Yeah, the neighborhood was so angry that there were terrible news stories on it - more like the opposite. Getting people involved, educating, and yes some yelling, is all part of a peaceful protest whether you like it or not. I'm sure your 10 second walk through the protesters was super inconvenient.
And I know several people who have all adopted small breed puppies - just have to look around, but there are plenty out there. America is the land of immediate gratification though, so they will buy whatever crap people can put a bow on because they need one NOW.

USDABreeder said:

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Offended1

Educated?? You are trying to brain wash!!!.If you were are really trying to educate. You would have real knowledge which you do not. You speak as if you have been in every USDA kennel in the country. I know for a fact you have not. Many USDA kennels are run by real nice people many of them nurses or ex nurses. Some also work with the elderly. They have families. They are members of their communities. They go to church. They do community services.
You are nothing more then a loud mouth terrorist. Jim Jones , David Koresh, Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden. Too all felt they were educating. You need to see a shrink. You and those like you. Because you are not doing community service at all. Pawsh Puppies I know employees people.He generates taxes for that community. Puppies are huge attractors and I am sure his stores bring in customers that buy from neighboring stores. WHAT DO YOU DO FOR THE COMMUNITY. Besides cause trouble and preach hate and lies.

offended1 said:

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Yes I am educated, thanks for asking. Call me what you want, but I am not writing dissertation sized responses on a comment board to try and squirrel out of the corner I am backed into.

USDABreeder said:

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You are definitely not educated about the canine industry. I suggest you stick with something you really know because you are making a fool of yourself.

offended1 said:

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I don't raise dogs for a living, because that takes alot of brains. Breeders getting written up and having to comply with the fact that they don't provide towels or blankets to dogs when you wouldn't sit outside without a jacket is asinine.
Whether YOU think I am a fool doesn't really matter. Like I said, being able to feed and water as well as breed dogs through all of their 3 heats per year doesn't take alot of brains, which obviously many breeders don't have.
If the rules are so easy to follow then why aren't they followed? Too much work huh? Maybe many of the breeders should not do what they do and stick to mowing lawns.

And stop taking this so personally, I can't vouch for you, you are an internet typer, there are too many crappy breeders out there and the write ups and shut downs show it, among other lackings.

offended1 said:

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And sorry if I had to send you to wikipedia with the word "dissertation". I am uneducated, so my lexicon and syntax isn't what it should be.

ChicagoShowDog said:

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Puppy peddlers suck. Ethical people don't believe in making a living off of churning out sub-standard dogs.

offended1 said:

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USDA - are your lines OFA certified to the applicable breeds? You know, hips, and elbow dysplasia, Heart OFA cert, Thyroid OFA cert, Luxtating patella cert.
NOPE - rep. breeders usually do this in breeds where it is necessary.

USDABreeder said:

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Yes they are what are what about your rescue dogs are they????

offended1 said:

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HAHAHA - so you spend money on OFA certification and then sell to P@wsh? Please tell me some more.
My rescue dogs are not, but they are rescues and it didn't matter - I am not breeding them and certainly didn't pay close to $2000 for a "solid temperment" and "great health and genetics" - but mine are great and have never been sick. So I am happy.
Tell me, why don't pet stores mention OFA or put a good warranty on hips and such then?

OVERTHETOP said:

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Gosh I should run all my Yorkshire Terries right over to my vet and have the x-rays done on them to make sure all is well with them.
Last I knew pawsh don't sell large breeds????
But what a $150.00 bucks for the tests.

offended1 said:

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Yorkies rate 4/87 for patellar luxation which is an OFA cert. I did say "applicable" breeds because every breed predisposed to different genetic deficiencies.
http://www.offa.org/patluxstatbreed.html
So maybe you should go to the vet now.

USDABreeder said:

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You guys did not make national news. I assume you are the flunkies of the AR world. But I must applaud you. With all the mistake you have made. You are able to prove to the public how sick and twisted the AR movement really is. I guess your not old enough to remember Green Peace. At one time the public was for their moment. Until one of their psychos rammed a whale ship .It was on national TV. . From that point forward green peace and other orgs like them were considered hippy, insane, anti social, psychotic, tree huggers.
Sadly some of what green peace stood for such as keeping the ecology clean. Was part of their goals. And because of this we had too many years of the public associating helping the ecology with crazy insane tree hugging hippies who wanted to see the human race exterminated. Because humans to them were believed to be locus of the planet. . And Our ecology suffered it. Because of people like you.
You can easily turn the public into a time when they could care less about animals. Because they do not want to be associated with the many Human haters who join your type of groups who believe 2/3 of the planets human race needs to die. That is pretty damn radical. I myself as a USDA breeder want to see breeding communities constantly improving, and learning new ways to keep and care for our animals that will benefit all. With groups like you loosing profits for us. Breeders may become so unprofitable that there is no way for it to improve. Without profits nothing can improve. People would be living in mud shacks. Which would make some crazy insane vegans whose brains are starved of protein very happy.

offended1 said:

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I haven't seen a mistake made yet.

Chigirl76 said:

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To Danielle – Who appointed you to speak for the entire neighborhood of Lincoln Park? I am a resident homeowner in LP and do not appreciate you speaking on my behalf. I happen to support the protestors and their message. I will choose these people exercising their right to peaceful protest/educating the public in my neighborhood any day over a pet store’s presence.

And, before you continue to label anyone who opposes you as uneducated, perhaps you should take a look at the punctuation/grammar in your own posts. It’s not stellar.

danielle said:

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Excuse me? Before jumping into a conversation you should consider reading the above comments first. When someone claims to have a Ph.D I expect them to know how to write properly. Nowhere did I say I was a bloody doctor so keep your comments to yourself.
I speak for MY neighborhood and friends, which happens to be a decent number of people in the area. Anyone who supports protests in their neighborhood are just as ridiculous as the people who protest. They are not educating anyone by doing this. People know there are shelters out there. There are a lot more serious things going on in the world other than obsessing over a pet store. Wake up.
Clearly you have a different outlook on how Lincoln Park should be. People should be focusing on driving safely, not sidetracked by protesters yelling and flailing signs everywhere.

offended1 said:

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No one claimed to have a PhD above, there was a question stated as to if someone ELSE had a PhD. Get your glasses fixed and keep representing LP like a good girl.

danielle said:

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Lol Wow you're a cocky one.
P.S. Protesters are stopped all the time honey. They need to go find real jobs some day.

offended1 said:

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Yeah I am because I think before I type my BS.

ChicagoShowDog said:

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Just admit it Danielle, you feel foolish for buying a dog from a puppy store. It's ok, people make mistakes, the dogs are cute. But you don't need to be so defensive. Educate, don't hate.

MHarrison said:

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Ok, thought I would check out what all this b.s. is about and I can not help but comment on this. Are you 14? How is all of this allowed to be online for the public? Do your parents know you write these retarded things?

offended1 said:

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So...are you on the payroll too or is this just the same employee posting under different names.
Saying something is "retarded" is pretty rude, since you know nobody here (presumably, HA).
14 year olds insult people on the internet. Well done.

Chigirl76 said:

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I have read, more than once, everything above and I didn't see offended1 ever STATE that he/she holds a PhD. That was an assumption you made.

I am entitled to my comments just as you are to yours and I will not keep them to myself.

From your post above, you are clearly missing the point. From what I have read and seen of these and similar protests, shelter adoptions are not the driving force. As I understand it, the concern here is the treatment of breeding animals. If supporting humane treatment for all dogs makes me ridiculous, then I'm guilty. However, I prefer to think it makes me a compassionate human being.

You can feel free to respond to this, but I won't be engaging with you any further. To slightly twist the words of the Great Bard, I refuse to fight a battle of wits with an unarmed person. And you, my dear, are completely devoid of weaponry.

USDABreeder said:

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chigirl76 Obviously you ignored my post. USDA breeders do not abuse animals. Nor do we neglect them. Generalizing harms people, and bastardizes genuine concerns.It is sad that you really believe ALL USDA breeders are bad and ALL pet stores are bad. That is really sad. That you seriously limit your views

offended1 said:

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Hard to not limit your views when many, many USDA breeders fail simple inspection components based on health and care compliance. It happens all the time and the reports are available to the public. We are not sensationalizing anything, the proof is there - NOR is EVERY USDA breeder a bad mill. They are still mills by defenition though because they are churned out for profit.
No one really wants to read your huge responses that hit 3 or 4 tangents along the way, thanks though.
Agreeing to disagree is the only route here. Protestors will stop protesting if millers stop millling - you don't want to stop, so neither do they.

USDABreeder said:

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Actually you are wrong. Failure will mean closing down a USDA Kennel. please look up the word failure in the dictionary. Yes sometimes USDA Breeders are found to have what the inspector views as a non complained situation. The Breeder is then re inspected in a few short weeks. These inspections are always surprise inspection. If the breeder does not complied they are closed down. It can be as small as a little chew mark on a water bowl. Or the dogs have chewed part of their kennel. This is what inspections are for . So the breeders will comply. Which they all do. Again you are wrong. I would love to see rescues and shelters forced to comply to the same rules a USDA kennel must comply too.

offended1 said:

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Yes, I am wrong. Non compliance results in compliance write ups until the pen runs out of ink rather than shut downs. I have seen enough USDA inspection reports to know.
Know who you are speaking to until you talk out of your a$$.
I looked up failure in the dictionary, it had a picture of a puppy mill.

USDABreeder said:

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Gee, offended you should rename yourself offensive because that is what you are. You're a wall off offensive lies.

offended1 said:

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I guess so. Go on the USDA site yourself and run reports searches...

ChicagoShowDog said:

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Sorry but ONCE A YEAR is hardly a good inspection schedule. I'm glad that keeps you on your toes.

@USDApuppyPeddler, The shelters I have been to in Chicago are all very nice, even Animal Control is full of loving volunteers who take them for walks in the huge outdoor grass yard. I bet your dogs never even get to feel grass under their feet! And PAWS Chicago has suites, not cages, there is classical music, attention, companionship, and also walks around the whole neighborhood! Your dogs probably never leave the property or feel grass on their feet.

USDABreeder said:

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How many times are you inspected???? I would love to do a SUPRISE Inspection on your place:)

furrypeanut said:

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Put up or shut up USDABreeder. If your facility is so great, surely you will let us know your breeder license number so we can pull the publicly available USDA inspection reports from your facility. Not willing to do that? If not, must be a house of horrors.

USDABreeder said:

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First tell me who you are. full name, home address, Where you work? When I can investigate you, pull up your records. I will then gladly give you mine. Because you will be sharing my info with your not so cool friends. I will also need their identity too. This game plays both ways. With identy theft out there and all and being that your kind tend to be criminal minded. Cant be too careful.

offended1 said:

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Identity theft, of a business? You are asking for people's personal info. Who is criminally minded again?

danielle said:

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Get a job. Something that pays you.

Chigirl76 said:

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Hmmmm…..I don’t recall making any generalizations regarding who is or is not bad…..I was simply clarifying what I believe to be the core issue at hand. Believe it or not, I am sure that there are reputable breeders out there. In fact, I know several people who have bought from those folks (and they were invited to visit the breeders' homes - multiple times - imagine that!) Additionally, I count a few responsible breeders among my close friends.

I just don’t believe that those reputable breeders would sell to pet shops.

Here’s the thing – the innocent are usually the eager to defend their innocence with evidence. The not-so-innocent tend to blather on , get defensive, make accusations against others and bring up things that are off subject in order to take everyone’s eye off the ball and deflect the real issues. Who does that remind you of???

Furrypeanut pretty much summed it up below - put up or shut up. The game does not play both ways when only one party is dealing in living creatures. And for your education....identity theft requires an individual's name, social security number, driver's license number, bank account or credit card number. I highly doubt this kind of sensitive information could be obtained from USDA inspection reports.

offended1 said:

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Federal gov. won't give up the SS#, so no identity threat - good point actually.
I see alot of blathering and no evidence on the other side of the fence.
He's probably bothering with these posts all day rather than tending to the dogs.

USDABreeder said:

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oh you generalized very well. If you believe in the core of the protestors you belive such as any KKK member would believe their cause is just. Or any Nation of Islam.

You also have a superiority complex. your description of how you found a reputable breeder has said nothing about the health, care, or genetics of the animals you claim are superior,

offended1 said:

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It was an assumption made based on my moving arguments and well stated facts. Kind of writing a doctoral paper, minus all of the name calling, haha.

offended1 said:

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Danielle, not everyone has a brainless job where they can type on the internet all day on news article replies. Maybe you should do some work rather than telling people to do what you should be doing.

USDA - we don't breed dogs that "may" be in harms way, so you needing someone's info who wants to check out your place is not in the same ball park.
I agree with the notion that your place must be a disaster if you are so protective, you seem a little paranoid - and don't type a paragraph telling me otherwise - not interested. I am entitled to my opinion and someone constantly refuting an opinion raises a red flag.

offended1 said:

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And FYI if you truly do work with P@wsh, then many people probably know who you are and things about you.
Info was posted by a collar company in a blog whom P@wsh wanted to do business with. Congrats.

offended1 said:

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And I am NOT posting the blog link or mentioning names out of respect because we really are here to educate and not trash. There are right ways and wrong ways, many breeders choose wrong, but not all.

danielle said:

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Oh pleassssse! I have personally found many websites where you people have left links bashing breeders and stores. Your bipolar behavior is getting old. You people do not educate. You are full of anger and hatred.

offended1 said:

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Yeah, I am full of anger. But I am not unfair. Please share these links if you. If I recall many people stopped in cars and on the street to ask and it was explained.
And why do you think I didn't put up the link. I would but people can find it on their own.
Yeah I am off my bipolar meds, that is why my posts are not coherent and founded on lies...
It's just convenient that there are basically two maybe three people with bad things to say.
Checked out their yelp ratings? Maybe you should - that's no lie - Just opinions. Just like you and I have and believe to be correct.

USDABreeder said:

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Oh you are wanting to trash that breeder. I am impressed you havent already but must give you a few points of being human for your efforts. But, no I am not that breeder.

OVERTHETOP said:

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I'm a usda breeder and proud to be one.I love what I do and I'm sure you guys love what you do also.
I'm not going to stop breeding my dogs and your smack and loose jaw jacking makes you all look like a bunch chickens out in the barn.
I don't have a PH'D or a collage behind me who cares,I don't and my dogs don't care.
My dogs love me and they love being mom's and I don't breed them to death and I also retire them at a young age around 4 to 5 yrs of age!So that makes me a puppymill?Humm And I also spay before they leave so that makes me a puppymill?I let them out in the grass to run and play?so that makes me a puppymill?Humm They are all current on shots and de-worming and vet care thats needed?My puppies are raised in my home with lots of tlc and love,that makes me a bad breeder?
I sell my puppies to pawsh and that makes me a bad breeder?Well I drove a truck for many years and ran the Chicago area and last time I checked lincoln park was high end class of people I can't live there but I happy to say I've put many smiles on the face's of people who have my babies:)who live around that area.
I think you all need to get a life and think about the next time you go after a pet store or a breeder because we will fight and we will stand up because we have rights you might not like it but it's a fact.
I have never been had any problems with usda or state I have passed everytime they have came to my kennel:)AND
OPINIONS ARE LIKE BUTT HOLES EVERYONE HAS ONE AND THEY ALL STINK.
So next time you go after a pet store or a breeder you might want to think about it because you might be in for a fight because us country folk fight back,everyone tell's me your all crazy but I'm more so.
I will stand my ground and I will keep sending pawsh my puppies and and I will keep breeding and all of your bad feed back,well that's just water under the bridge I don't care what you think nor will I ever.... GO PAWSH Stand up Breeders for what we stand for......

offended1 said:

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Every breeder is different. The message has always been that not all breeders are bad. If you sell to P@wsh, then fine. If you are truly a good breeder, then GREAT. If you are the same "USDA" person, with an alter personality - GFY If you are a "juiced in" fake poster, GFY.

I really hope you are a good breeder, but majority shows that the chance is slim.

OVERTHETOP said:

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Ya know if you only knew what you was talking about I would give you A+ but sorry to say you get a big fat F- because your a looser......go hug a tree

offended1 said:

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"what you was talking about" - looser? And there is no F-. It's not possible to get LOWER than an F.
Trust me, I know what I am talking about.
You don't know me.

jennkloc said:

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This debate is getting pretty heated! Molly and I love that all the people commenting are so passionate and informed--we're learning a lot!--but we ask that you all *please* try your best to keep it civil.

there's no need to name call or take personal shots. that sort of comment just subtracts from all the valid debate points you all have been making all along.

Thanks so much!

offended1 said:

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Jenn - I will be the first, and probably only person to admit to a bit of name calling. But my response would be "I didn't start it"

ChicagoShowDog said:

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You can't moderate and remove comments on here? I am surprised you wouldn't remove some of these harassing and excessively long posts.

USDABreeder said:

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I am sure you would love the moderator to remove all my post. Because your kind is way too use to fighting a fight with a silent majority. I also may be damaging some of your deep seeded programing. I am sure you always assumed us USDA breeders were mute and stupid. I am, and all other breeders like me consider the term Puppy Mill to be a derogatory term, that is as defamatory as the N word. And used in the same manner. To only cause hate. Not educate.

USDABreeder said:

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I must thank you and molly for this blog. Maybe because my side is so silent. Or the fact maybe the public likes having scape goats. And, the media seems to always side with who they believe the verbal winner is. My side the side of the real USDA breeder is never told. Even before I moved to the Midwest and became a USDA breeder. I too believed some of the lies.
The truth is. There are mistakes being made in all aspects of our pet industry. There is good and bad through it all. Sadly the only ones who are actually regulated and inspected are the ones under the most attacks. Mainly because the leaders of this part of the industry decided to just ignore the crazy people. Assuming they would just go away. What a huge mistake.

It is very hard to reverse such extreme rumors. A lot of money and I mean a Lot of money is made off the term Puppy Mill.

Without the term Puppy Mill I highly doubt some of the bigger orgs would be worth hundreds of millions of dollars. It has snow balled into an industry. One that generates millions if not billions of dollars. Off a term with no absolute definition.
The industry supplies funds to Giants such as the HSUS, Best Friends, PETA, ALF, Discovery Channel,
Sometimes the HSUS calls puppy mills unlicensed breeders. Lately they are labeling the USDA licensed breeders.
How it is described to the public is just horrendous. There are rescue posing as pet stores, web sites, rescues all using the term Puppy Mill and generating billions of dollars.

It is a magic word for the non profit sector. And for those too that are for profit.

Thousands of unlicensed breeders will say on their web sites don't buy form pet stores Puppy Mills. When in fact they are just trying to knock out competition.
The term of the century for them. And there is no Media personnel with the guts to go after this story. Which if they dug deep enough its a Pulitzer prize winning story. Huge conspiracy theories draped in greed.

I am not the only USDA breeder to speak out. What happens is if we get too loud or too much attention we get the mulit million dollar industry which profits off the term down our throats.

There is no way that thousands of USDA breeders will fit into the tiny pin head of a description of the term Puppy Mill. The Midwest Breeders have the most comprehensive seminars geared towards teaching better kennel management, genetics, breed standards, Conformation, Health, Veterinarian care, Kennel management, legislation, Behavior, pesticides, Grooming, Dental, pest control. These seminars are free and also part of continuing educational programs geared toward producing Blue Ribbon Kennels.

The real Puppy Mill story is greed driven .That much is true. Soaked in human and Animal Suffering.. 4 million killed each year they say. With less then 2 percent killed being purebred from unknown origins. Follow the money . I guarantee it will not lead to USDA kennels. It will lead you down the rabbit hole of AR lies and confusion.Vegans, Some leading to dangerous cults. Cults associated with serial killers, Cannibals. The son of Sam, and Charles Manson himself.

offended1 said:

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BTW - TLC, grass running and socialization do not represent a true puppy mill. It's the neurotic, over stuffed, cage bottomed, non compliant ones that people care about.

OVERTHETOP said:

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Over and over and over and over again get a life....
you need a flipping JOB you spend to much time with this...

offended1 said:

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Aren't you spending as much time as well saying the same thing. I will say again - nice job you have that you can post all day in the afternoon on a news board.

OVERTHETOP said:

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Go hug a tree it will make you fill much better and get a job sounds like you need one....

offended1 said:

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So your job at 2:10pm CST is to post BS on a board? Hmm.
I love your hug a tree comments. Are you 6? You NEED to post something and this is all you came up with.
It's funny how across the two articles, a few of the usernames use the same comments and the same word tracks.
I am wondering if this is a coincidence or not.

OVERTHETOP said:

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You just have to have the last word everytime you don't know when to shut your hole,do you..Like I said over and over and over again GET A LIFE

offended1 said:

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Apparently "get a life" is all you can say, since you have no other inarguable defense for your thoughts.
And yes, I do like having the last word, thanks for noticing.

offended1 said:

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And shouldn't you be tending to your dogs at 2pm CST? Why are you arguing on the computer??

USDABreeder said:

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Permission to cross post

Jack Russell Terrier Trial I and II

November 14 and 15, 2009

Germantown Charity Horseshow Grounds

Germantown , Tennessee

Everyone needs to know that a dog club member was stopped by police near
Birmingham , AL on the way to the Magnolia Classic Trial. The actual law
enforcement officer was a sheriff's captain for Jefferson County . They held her
for 45 minutes on the side of the road with 6 patrol cars flashing red
lights. She was treated like a criminal. She and her daughter were both very
frightened by the way they were treated. The policeman asked her if she knew
why she was stopped and she told them, "No I don't". He said, "I stopped
you because I saw you had dogs in your truck". Her dogs were in secured
kennels elevated by a table in the back of her truck to be near the topper
windows. Equipment was then stored under the table.

They said she didn't have water in the dog crates. She explained she had
just stopped at a rest stop, let all the dogs go to the bath room, offered
them water and they didn't do well with water in the cups while the truck
moved. Then she poured water in the cups and none of the dogs drank. He then
said that the back of the truck was not air-conditioned. She pointed out
that the temps were 58 at the time. Then he said she had inadequate
ventilation. She told him the dog's hair was moving as they traveled and there was
plenty of ventilation.

He wanted to know where she was taking the dogs and why they were in her
truck. She told him she was headed to a dog show. He asked where the show
was taking place. She stammered and he was sure she was lying. He asked for
documentation to prove she was attending a dog show and proof that she was
entered as a contestant. She didn't have a flyer so she told him to go the
JRTCA web site and the trial would be listed. He called his main office and
had someone go on line to view the site. He told her if she was going to a
dog show why didn't' she have entry forms with her. She told him that she
was going to enter when she arrived.

He looked in the van and asked about the research foundation equipment.
She told him what it was and he stated it looked like drug paraphernalia to
him. She showed him paper work for the DNA study to prove the equipment was
for legitimate purposes.

He told her he wasn't convinced that it was a proper way to carry her dogs
and he was going to call animal control to come and investigate. When he
called them they said they couldn't come for an hour and a half so he took
photos of her truck and dogs to show to animal control so animal control
could decide if her set up is acceptable or not. They informed her they had
all her information and knew how to contact her if animal control decided her
set up was inadequate. Fortunately, animal control couldn't come
immediately so they let her go.

She had forgotten her brief case with her rabies certificates in them. It
was the greatest good fortune that they failed to ask. You all need to know
that in many areas animal terrorist (nothing they do is right) groups are
in control of animal welfare and of animal control.

During this event they would not let her daughter get out of the car to
smoke a cigarette. One officer went to the side of the car after she asked
and stood there to prevent her from leaving the vehicle. She became very
frightened and called her father. Then she heard them tell the others to turn
off the cameras and she became even more afraid. Both were made to feel like
they were in a third world country because they had dogs in the car.

The following are some of the things that are critical to know to keep you
& your animals safe:

1. Dog owners need to be alerted to the current climate. Please understand
this current outrage may be the direct result of the influence of animal
activist groups disguised as animal welfare groups. Law enforcement is on
board with them in many areas because they view them as experts. HSUS gives
law enforcement positive press. HSUS donates money to many reelection
campaigns. Some officials have been given nice jobs with HSUS when they retired
from public office.

Animal Terrorists are succeeding in getting laws passed that restrict our
freedoms of animal ownership. Their influence is sometimes apparent among
public officials at every level including law enforcement and animal
control.

If you read Saul Alinsky - "Rules for Radicals" you will see the method
they use to enact new laws that seem so warm-and-fuzzy but in reality are
aimed directly at each of us. They don't want us to have (pet owners you are
not exempt) or breed animals and they are willing to do anything to stop us
- lie, cheat, steal.

According to Alinsky "Rules for Radicals", to affect radical change,
First: you create a problem (out of thin air). Animal Terrorists have created
the language which includes the term "puppy mill", "back yard Breeder", "hobby
breeder", "vanity breeder", "basement breeder". The uninformed jump on the
band wagon and the next thing you know commercial breeders just breed
another litter of pups to offset new costs while you and I are forced to become
criminals, give up our dogs, or to sign away our constitutional rights in
order to have a dog.

2. Keep your dog papers in your vehicle when you travel with your animals.
I can't stress this enough. I've been guilty of driving without them but
no more. It could cost you thousands of dollars, or worse you could lose
your dogs. Your dogs could be taken into custody to a pound till you could get
your papers to show authorities. You would be powerless to stop them.
Meanwhile, no telling what they would be subjected to in that environment.
Further, some communities/ Further, some communities/states have laws that
taken to a shelter must be spayed or neutered before it is returned. These
things might be fought against in court but your animals would already be
spayed or neutered, or even euthanized, before you could win in court. It
has happened to others. Eventually some others have won in court but their
animals were all already dead, spayed, neutered, and/or sold to pet people
that "rescued" them from the shelter (who happened to make a chunk of change
off your stolen dogs and from the PR of having "rescued" them).

3. Stay Street-Legal. Make sure your car is travel worthy before any trip.
No lights burned out, no out-of-date inspection sticker, etc. Give them no
reason to stop you for a minor infraction. The constitution still protects
us against illegal search and seizure without probable cause. Above all DO
NOT SPEED. If you are in a big hurry, leave earlier. Giving the police a
right to stop you under color of law has officially just gotten way more
expensive.

Apparently our fellow club member was stopped unconstitutionally - IMO.
Right or wrong, she was victimized only because they could see her dogs in
her car. It is a sad state of affairs when our constitutional rights can be
violated because we have a visible dog in the car. Sadly, you might have to
consider this when you get your next vehicle.

4. Buy or borrow a video camera. Video tape your dogs kennels, the
condition of the kennel, your dogs' condition, water containers, bedding, etc.
Have a video of your dogs competing at a dog show. If animal control shows up
video tape the entire event. If they take your dogs, go to the shelter &
video tape the place they take them if possible. One fellow in AL with show
pit bulls did this and he got his dogs back.

5. Keep a contact person's number in your cell phone. If you get into a
situation like the one that happened near Birmingham you might need someone
to call that can send help. We need to develop a system of hot lines through
out the country so a volunteer in each state or area could come to help in
an emergency.

6. JRTCA members and the Magnolia Group should join with the My Dog My
Choice members and contact the elected state officials for AL and the
Birmingham Chamber of Commerce &/or Jefferson County officials to lodge a formal
written complaint. We need to organize a letter writing campaign. I will
create a sample letter and get us addresses to use. Email me at
_mbyrd@centurytel._mb_ (mailto:mbyrd@centurytel.mby) for this information.

If an area gets the reputation of being in an unsafe place for dog owners
to travel, exhibitors will not attend events in that area. The person that
had been victimized went home through Birmingham after dark and went to a
different town to spend the night because she was afraid. Even then she was
afraid in the motel so close to the area.

It is bad for the local economy to lose a source of revenue. How many
people would go to the GA trial, for instance, if they worried about traveling
through AL ? Dollars spent in a community roll over 9 times in that area.

Having a dog in the car does not automatically make us criminals and
remove our 4th amendment rights against illegal search and seizure.

7. Just so you know, TN is the state where police shot a man's dog and
victimized his family when he accidentally left his wallet on top of his car.
They thought the money blowing off was evidence that he was a robber. The
man has won a suit in court over it but his dog is dead, his wife and
children are traumatized and his knee is permanently injured.

In LA a man's pit bulls were taken and killed within 24 hours. He proved
he was innocent in court but all his animals were already dead. He is suing.

The newest hype they are introducing as another "First create a problem"
is the idea that dogs have a larger carbon foot print than an SUV. Think that
is too far out to be believed or to matter? Will you still think so if
they pass a law which requires you to pay a Cap and Trade tax to keep your
dog, or a national limit on the size and number of dogs you can own?

You can't begin to imagine the things I'm reading about the victimization
of animal owners & the loss of our freedom of animal ownership in
communities all over the USA . We must all wake up and become proactive before it
gets any worse.

Don't be sucked into any of the animal terrorists' agendas (like puppy
mill bills etc). And for heaven's sake don't send money to any of them or let
your families and friends do so. It's not just the commercial breeder. It's
not just the pit bull people. It is not just the other guy. It is your
personal freedom of quiet enjoyment with your animals and it is happening
TODAY. We can stand together or we can all fall one by one. Think about it
please.

http://www.mydogmychoice.com/

PLEASE crosspost ,.....PLEASE crosspost !!

*Wouldn’t life be great with background music?*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF-zIErdF7o

USDABreeder said:

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For those who do not understand begging for money for rescue dogs is not hugely profitable. Then check out the worth of the non profit protesting Pawsh Puppies

http://www.melissadata.com/Lookups/np.asp?zip=save+a+pet+inc&submit1=Submit

Who says this is not competition

mike5218 said:

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USDA MEANS NOTHING AKC MEANS NOTHING A BROKER IS USDA LICENSED AS IS A "COMMERCIAL BREEDER" OR AS WE KNOW PUPPY MILL. SICK AND LEGAL ...LAWS NEED TO CHANGE AND MANS BEST FRIEND NEEDS TO NOT FALL UNDER THE SAME CATEGORY AS CHICKEN. IF YOU CAN NOT SEE THE MOTHER & FATHER OF A PUPPY RED FLAG RIGHT THERE. WANT TO KNOW MORE GO TO PET STORE CRUELTY OR TAKE A LOOK AT THE "BREEDING STOCK" FROM A PRIVATE BREEDER AKA PUPPY MILL AT MILL DOG RESCUE 6 INCHES.Remember that number. Here is the USDA formula for calculating the amount of space it considers adequate for a dog: "Each dog housed in a primary enclosure (including weaned puppies) must be provided with a minimum amount of floor space, calculated as follows: Find the mathematical square of the sum of the length of the dog in inches (measured from the tip of its nose to the base of its tail) plus 6 inches; then divide the product by 144. The calculation is: (length of dog in inches + 6) x (length of dog in inches + 6) = required floor space in square inches. Required floor space in inches/144 = required floor space in square feet." The USDA measures the amount of space a dog is allowed to have for his or her entire life in INCHES. 6 INCHES, to be exact. What the formula above means is, if you are in a dog (Chihuahua or Great Dane--doesn't matter) in a square cage and you put your rear end against the side of the cage, you can look forward to 6 WHOLE INCHES of exercise space in front of you. Run. Play. Have a good time. You can find that regulation--3.6 (c)(1)(i)--and others supposedly enforced by USDA inspectors at http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_03/9cfr3_03.html In a separate regulation--3.8 (a)--the USDA mentions that dogs housed this way are supposed to be allowed out for daily exercise, but former inspectors have said this regulation is never enforced. We have rarely seen it even mentioned in USDA inspection records. What we HAVE seen is breeders and brokers for pet stores who violate even these sickeningly inadequate space requirements. This is just one of the reasons why a facility can pass the USDA inspection and still be a PUPPY MILL. Puppy mills are LEGAL. They shouldn't be FREEDOM OF SPEECH GOD BLESS THE RESCUE AND EVERYONE OUT THERE PROTESTING TRYING TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC. I RECENTLY SAW AN ENGLISH BULL DOG AT MILL DOG RESCUE.. WANDA..SHE IS SO OVER BREED EVERY HEAT CYCLE SHE IS A MESS. BEING KEPT IN A CAGE ALL HER LIFE SHE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO WALK.. YES DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO WALK. THE UGLY TRUTH IS IN THIS FOR PROFIT BUSINESS THE DOGS WHO ARE PART OF THE BREEDING STOCK ARE TREATED JUST AS THAT NO LOVING INTERACTION WITH HUMANS NO KNOWLEDGE OF GRASS OR GOD FORBID PET COOKIES/ TOYS. MANS BEST FRIEND. A LOCAL PET STORE HAD AN ENGLISH BULLDOG PUP FOR SALE 3199 DOLLARS.. WOW I WONDER IF HIS MOTHER WAS WANDA EASILY COULD BE .... THEY WILL BREED DOGS WITH HERNIAS, BLIND, BIRTH DEFECTS, HEART WORMS OR AS A RECENT RESCUE REVILED BROKEN JAWS. NO REPUTABLE BREEDER WILL SELL TO A PET STORE ONLY THE FOR PROFIT COLD AND HEARTLESS. PUPPY MILL FACTS Commercial Dog Kennels =Puppy Mills = Dog Auction = PUPPY BROKERS = USDA Licensed = AKC registered
Hundreds of thousands of puppies are raised each year in commercial kennels.
Puppy mills are distinguished by their inhumane conditions and the constant breeding of unhealthy and genetically defective dogs solely for profit.
Very often the dogs in puppymills are covered with matted, filthy hair, their teeth are rotting and their eyes have ulcers. We have seen many dogs whose jaws have rotted because of tooth decay.
Dog Brokers obtain Dogs From Puppy Mills and fall under the United States Department of Agriculture
The dogs are kept in small wire cages for their entire lives. They are almost never allowed out. They never touch solid ground or grass to run and play.
Many of the dogs are injured in fights that occur in the cramped cages from which there is no escape.
Many dogs lose feet and legs when they are caught in the wire floors of the cages and cut off as the dog struggles to free themselves.
Very often there is no heat or air-conditioning in a puppymill. The dogs freeze in the winter and die of heat stroke in the summer. Puppies "cook" on the wires of the cages in the summer.
Female dogs are usually bred the first time they come into heat and are bred every heat cycle. They are bred until their poor worn out bodies can't reproduce any longer and then they are killed. Often they are killed by being bashed in the head with a rock or shot. Sometimes they are sold to laboratories or dumped. This is often by the time they reach five years old.
Puppy mills maximize their profits by not spending adequate money on proper food, housing or veterinary care.
The food that is fed in puppy mills is often purchased from dog food companies by the truck load. It is sometimes made of the sweepings from the floor. It is so devoid of nutritional value that the dogs' teeth rot at early ages.
Dogs in puppymills are debarked often by ramming a steel rod down their throats to reputure their vocal cords.
Puppies are often taken from their mother when they are 5 to 8 weeks old and sold to brokers who pack them in crates for resale to pet stores all over the country.
The puppies are shipped by truck or plane and often without adequate food, water, ventilation or shelter.
Innocent families buy the puppies only to find that the puppy is very ill or has genetic or emotional problems. Often the puppies die of disease. Many others have medical problems that cost thousands of dollars. And many have emotional problems because they have not been properly socialized in the mills. Don't bring this misery into your home.
There are over 4000 federally licensed breeding kennels.
Approximately 3,500 petstores in the United States sell puppies. They sell approximately 500,000 thousand puppies a year. It is estimated that the puppy industry in Missouri is valued at 40 million dollars a year. The puppy industry in one county in Pennsylvania - Lancaster - is valued at 4 million dollars a year.
There are seven states that are known as puppy mill states because they have the majority of the puppymills in the country. They are: Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Pennsylvania.
There is federal law, the Animal Welfare Act, and many states have laws that purport to regulate puppymills, but the fact is that those laws are rarely enforced.
Pet stores often tell customers that their puppies come from local breeders or quality breeders. Don't believe them, ask to see the paperwork and find out where the puppies really come from.
If the people of the United States refused to buy a puppy in a pet store, the misery of puppy mills would end. Please tell everyone you know about the puppymill and petstore connection.

USDABreeder said:

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Funny Mike the HSUS helped develop those minimum standards. Mike WHY?? are you so insistent on labeling such a large group of people? WHY?? are you trying so hard to destroy another American business?? You can not keep redefining puppy mill so you can get rid of all the shelter and rescue competition! Freedom of speech does not include hate speech, defamation co character, group harassment. racial profiling ( yes your kind hate the Amish), And terrorism. All things your protesters and you perosnally have covered.
Food ordered by the truck loads mill sweepings. Actually one of your kind tried to convince some politicians we supplement our food with saw dust.
Do you really believe those lies??? IF this were so why do all the expensive dog food companies cram our seminars with their booths.IF they were not trying to get our business. billjac, royall caine, loyall, nutra source. All premium foods trying to get our attention. You never see ole roy or Purina, or Alpo at our seminars. Because we do not buy that crud.That is stuff you usually see in shelters and rescues. Good food means larger litters, and healthier pups, with less problems.

You need to write for a horror channel because you have a very warped imagination. And you are not as bright as you think you are. Maybe you need a nice hamburger or steak to clear your mind.It is probably protein starved and your body void of vitamin B is making you a bit nuts.

Stop going to the Ar seminars too. Because it is warping the little mind you have left.You want fantasy go to a sci fi convention maybe you might meet a friend so you wont be so lonely and bitter.

mike5218 said:

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BBB Rating for Pawsh Puppies

Based on BBB files, Pawsh Puppies has a BBB Rating of C- on a scale from A+ to F.
Reasons for this rating include:

* BBB does not have sufficient information to determine how long this business has been operating.
* BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business.

Click here for an explanation of BBB Ratings

Back to top
Business Contact and Profile for Pawsh Puppies
Name: Pawsh Puppies
Phone: (773) 525-8680
Address: 2120 N. Halsted
Chicagohicago, IL 60614
Principal: Laurence (Alex) Portney
Customer Contact: Laurence (Alex) Portney - (773) 525-8680
File Open Date: September 2009
Type of Business: Pet Shops
BBB Accreditation: Pawsh Puppies is not a BBB Accredited business.

mike5218 said:

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70 inspectors for 10,000 facilities
In addition to inspecting and watching over commercial dog kennels, APHIS inspectors are also in charge of inspecting research facilities, zoos and circuses, airport terminals—they are in charge of inspecting the care, handling and housing of everything from dogs to dolphins. This document, published on APHIS’ website, has this to say about the inspectors themselves:

“[Animal Care] inspectors receive special training in the proper care of marine mammals, exotic animals, and animals used in research. Inspectors also receive extensive training in how to conduct inspections at airport terminals, zoos, and commercial animal breeding facilities, among others. APHIS currently has more than 70 AC inspectors in the United States, who are strategically placed where regulated facilities are located.”

The total number of active licensed facilities listed on the APHIS website is 9,883. At first glance, seventy inspectors for nearly 10,000 facilities sounds like a miniscule number of people doing a colossal job but if you do the math, it adds up to about one facility per day per inspector.

What compliance means with the AWA
It’s important to note exactly what inspectors are looking for when they arrive at a USDA licensed kennel. Their job is to make sure breeders are adhering to the minimum standards set forth by the Animal Welfare Act (AWA). They can look at a facility with hundreds of dogs in small cages, desperate for human attention, and note no violations.

That’s because the AWA does nothing to ensure dogs are happy, or live a quality life. It’s not written into the regulations, and therefore is not something the USDA enforces. Here are some quick facts about the minimum standards set forth by the USDA:
-Inspections are “Risk-based,” meaning that facilities that meet a certain criteria are inspected “as seldom as once every 2 to 3 years.” (source)
-Cage size: must be 6 inches larger than the size of the dog, on all sides
-Up to 12 dogs can be housed in one cage
-Dogs never have to be let out of their cages. Breeders only need to have an exercise plan
-There is no limit to the number dogs a breeder can have—many have over 1,000
-There is no age limit for breeding dogs. If a dog is able to produce puppies for ten years, that’s how long they could be in the facility
For the full text of the federal Animal Welfare Regulations, click here.

Bad Kennels Stay in Business
One of the most common complaints about the USDA from animal advocates is that breeders can have repeated and long-standing violations, but continue to sell hundreds of puppies to pet stores. Below are several reports of large, USDA-licensed Minnesota kennels that have multiple USDA violations and dozens of reports of sick puppies sold in stores. Click the links below to see the reports, courtesy of Pet Shop Puppies Inc. Note that some have even been investigated by local news stations and have been charged with animal cruelty by the state.

USDABreeder said:

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Mike I can solve this problem. All we need to do is lobby to have shelters and rescues inspected exactly like USDA kennels are :) and have you follow the same rules :)

mike5218 said:

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USDA BREEDER...wow big words for such a small small person. If you had any pride in what you do "USDA BREEDER" you would not anonymously post to this site all day long. And yes why are you not tending to your dogs as another already voiced? You are hiding behind this shell because you are nothing more that a greedy small minded ugly hateful person that breeds dogs for profit. KEEP THE FAITH SAVE A PET AND ALL OTHER ACTIVIST FOR ANIMAL RIGHTS HUMAN RIGHTS KEEP THE FAITH. Let us not let scumbags prevail. You are a nasty ugly crippled with guilt individual .. practice what you preach and post your business name come on... let us see how you operate your business coward

USDABreeder said:

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Mike, You mean person. Eat some Animal protien before your brain srivles ups. Save a Pet is worth Millions they do not care about Animals. Only the donations they recieve Shame shame. follow the money. Which leads to the true greed.

furrypeanut said:

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A friend tweeted that she saw the protesters were back at Pawsh on Saturday. Will be interesting to see what happens to that place if they keep it up.

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