Absolutely damn ridiculous. I could not believe this video below.
Update at 5:53 p.m. on 10/7: Ha ha ha! The goofballs apologized and one of them admitted they wouldn't have dared do this act in America. At least they aren't as stupid as I feared.
A group of Aussies dress up in blackface and perform a "tribute" to the Jackson 5.
First of all, this viral video entry goes under the Gomer Files, a special hell for the dumbest things I've seen. H/T to my RedEye bud, Tracy Swartz, for coming up with that category, plus alerting me to this goof-fest above.
Secondly, big ups to Harry Connick Jr. for reading these clueless fools the riot act.
Harry Connick Jr. aka Kyles Files Hero Credit: AP/ANDY KROPA
I seriously had to look at the calendar to see if I had somehow gone on a really bad time travel a la HG Wells.
Anyone considering coming forth with the Wayans-White-Chicks-defense, don't even bother. There is no history of "whiteface" that comes anywhere close to the embarrassment that blacks suffered during this period in Hollywood.
Additionally, I don't like that awful movie and what two goofy filmmakers did in no way justifies international ignorance of this magnitude.
I'm too disgusted to write any more. Somebody, say something please.
533 Comments
Mr. Brown Thumb said:
I saw that this morning on Gawker and couldn't believe it.
Kyra Kyles said:
Absolute foolishness.
SamFlint1 said:
Do the Waylan Brother need a gut punch for playing White Chicks or is that ok? Some people can afford o be hypocrits!!
Kyra Kyles said:
Did you not read the post, SamFlint1? I didn't have a blog when they did that movie. Bring them to me and I'll definitely gut punch them. What they did was stupid, but as I said, there is no cultural history of "whiteface" to anywhere near the degree of blackface. And people should have spoken out when they made the film instead of sitting there in the box office with popcorn in their hands.
SamFlint1 said:
Did you know some of the performers were Indian and Lebanese and doing a jackson Skit.....about the Jacksons not trying to relate it the Blackface of the past.
BN said:
Yep you "Painted" yourself into a corner now, haven't you Kyra. So now your inferring that people(because if I call them black I myself would be labeled))who painted themselves black are racist.I can't belive you write for this site without actually researching your stories and presenting all the facts. (to clairify the previous statement, this is not an attack on your race, just how bad you are at your job, as you seem to jump to conclusions quickly).
On to the next point , this happened Australia, not America, different country/culture/history. We don't have the same racial problems as you did or currently do, so expecting another country to react like You or Harry is "ignorant" at best and dare I say "racist" at its' worst.
Now run along and continue with your two bit reporting. In fact I will help you out with your next story. I was near the local army base when a saw a lot of soilders with black face paint on and singing marching songs, damm racist barstards they are, better get your attack dogs out their quick, someone might take it the wrong way.
Message from Montie said:
Let me explain to you the definition of racist. "Racist" is a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Black people who paint themselves black to mimic blackface can't very well be racist against their own people. That's more like self-hatred.
Regardless of where they are from, blackface was something that was done in America, so chances are Australians got it from Americans. Now if they took the time to check out this form of "entertainment," they know good and well what the history and reputation too.
BN said:
Yet the ignorance continues. This happened in Australia, not the 51st state of America.
Do you realize that the viewpoint Kyra chastised the host for(who apoligiesd by the way) is the same one thats held by the majority of Austrailians? (upto 80% in recent polls).
What it comes down to is that she realized that Australia is not America and she spit her Dummy. She belittled the viewpoint, negativly and unjustly so, of a country/culture she knows nothing about.Critsism of a Culture/Race in this fashion infers that hers is superior and therefore, by definition, is racism (taken from a dictionary).
So I stand by my point. In fact I think Kyras attack was worse, as hers was direct and not a simple misunderstanding.
Also could you ask your fellow Americans not to climb Ularu (Ayes Rock). The tour operaters ask them specifically not to in order to respect the wishes of the tradditonal owners. But Guess what, they still do it, even though its manditory to know. They can't even use ignorance as an excuse.
Going back to my Army example in the previous post, they painted their faces black (for camoflarge). Their intention was not to belittle anyone, just like the Jackson Jive. It was a tribute and nothing more. Just because most Americans think everyone has the same preducies and fears as them dosn't mean its so. And just to remind you again, America is not the world, ie you are only 300mil in a 6 billion total.
But the thing I really found amusing about your post it that you, as a American, were advising others not to be so ignorant about other cultures and then assume everybody should know about yours'. Check the level of USA passport ownership. Have seen any overseas shows or news stoies on the TV in the USA. Have you played any other sport other than the American staples. Check out any foreign movies latley. Even if you anserwer yes to only one or two of these I would be supprised. As for me I have played Baseball/American Football, get a world view (not just American)on the news every night, justed watched Tie Me UP, Tie Me Down to see Antonia Bandaress before went to America, was recently discussising with a ex paitriot of yours about the American
Civil War(Specifically about the vereterans that relocated to Australia after the war, he was writing a book) and have travelled to several foreign countries. Most of the people I know have same type of activities/interests. Yet you have have gall to say we're ignorant liars.
To conclude the only thing your post has done was reinforce the Sterotype that Americans are fearfull and self centered. And Kyra was thanking you for your good backing her up ?????
Also I still have the number of the Army Base Kyra, if your interested ;)
cm2 said:
I'm very confused at what type of argument you are trying to make. You're clearly very angry for starters at, which btw, is very much an opinion, but this long winded statement about so many different topics has limited your statement to emotionally driven drivel.
Are you trying to say that Americans are self-interested and ignorant of world wide affairs??? Okay,so yes, it is clear that Americans (the mass general public) are particularly disinterested and ambivalent to foreign affairs and issues that stem outside of the States. Good point I suppose. But then are you arguing that other countries are equally or less so as ignorant as we are? I personally would argue the latter and if that was the point you were trying to make then this argument has essentially refuted itself.
You attack Kyra on the premise that she fits into this "American stereotype" and that she is therefore a hypocrite for expecting that another country have knowledge or understanding of our country's history and issues (and I guess, movies, sports and news as well according to your post...)while, as an "ignorant American" she has no such knowledge of Australia's. I will never argue that Americans shouldn't be more politically and socially active in not just events that happen here but across the world as well. But it is unfair for you to assume that she has no knowledge of your country simply because she took issue with something that, no matter how many "facts" you attempt to spew out, is an issue that is widespread regardless of where the issue originated.
Whats worse with your statement is that you seem to assume that it is Okay for Australians to uphold such negative stereotypes of race simply because "the majority of people have the same viewpoint" and because "Australia is not America". First and foremost, please take note of the fact that the population of Australia is particularly homogeneous no? So, where there's a majority (with no real dissenters) of people who look the same and therefore would have the same outlook, is that really a justifiable argument??? I also wonder then would you think it appropriate to mimic other widespread stereotypes of other countries ESPECIALLY in such a public forum as Television, simply because, "It's Australia not [fill in country name here]"
It's very irresponsible and ignorant of YOU to go on this rant about how no one knows anything about Australia and attempt to argue that this whole incident was not only forgivable but acceptable and THEN to back up such an argument with Army personnel participating in the same despicable behavior as if that also somehow justifies it!
The fact of the matter is that the stereotypes that pervade minorities in this country are NO SECRET;the unjustifiable,horrendous and hurtful treatment of minorities past and present were and never have been limited just to the States either. Blacks were treated as inferior, stupid, and inhuman (whether it was a direct result of the America's standards of treatment is questionable) regardless of what country one steps foot in. To feign ignorance or cultural differences at actions such as these is a pitiful and lame argument. No matter where you are from it is apparent that this is not okay. And simply because you and every other white Australian finds it funny does not mean it's appropriate.
As an African-American female I was actually more perturbed at the fact that it was MEANT to be a joke (and yet it is consistently considered a tribute!); that they were CHARACTERS, bafoons; THIS WAS NOT A TRIBUTE! It was directly in tow with that of blackface performances and even worse in light of Mr. Jackson's recent death. I would have found it less upsetting, ironically, if the performance were done in a SERIOUS manner (such to make it a TRIBUTE: Definition: something given or done as an expression of esteem. NOT AS A MOCKERY: Definition: 1 : insulting or contemptuous action or speech : derision
2 : a subject of laughter, derision, or sport
3 a : a counterfeit appearance : imitation b : an insincere, contemptible, or impertinent imitation
4 : something ridiculously or impudently unsuitable!)
WITHOUT the shoe polish only on their faces and the garish fro wigs.
Shame on you for only further proving that Kyra's statements were no more far fetched than yours that you could be a better journalist than her. I suppose your post has done nothing more than to reinforce just how ignorant a person not of color can be to the plight of minorities around the world who have consistently been subjected to unfair characterizations and negative portrayals that will forever persist because people like you will forever continue to argue that such portrayals and characterizations mean nothing and are all in good fun.
BN said:
First of all, thanks for agreeing that Kyras' blog was a bit of a unqualified rant.
And, but it seems you still just don't get it. Australia is not the 51st state of America. Just because the act reinforced a negative stereo type in America doesn't it does so here.
You also say this article was done in jest, in that case shes' paying disservice to the topic at hand.
And please, if you want to disscuss cultural ingnorance and racism, by all means. I am confident America is far worse, by a long shot, So please, by all means.
Like I said in other posts, do you realize that you have given young racial zealots, who might not have known about the black face history, another way demean your race??
Like the way most Australians saw it and the way group intended, it was a tribute to the Jackson Five. It was an American who tried to project their ideals and history of racial vilification of their past onto us.
And you didn't answer the questions about Americaians (including blacks) who disrespect the local Aborigonies.
Also, why do Americans give lables to different ethnic groups. Aren't you all just Amercians. Doesn't using all these lables (Afican American, Italian American etc) just create further divisions (common sense really).
Another point, When someone calls a nation racist and full of liars (mainly directed at Montie) do you expect people not to react?
So please, by all means do tell people that the act might offensive to some. But use a carm manner. By ranting, raving and telling other countries they should be like America is no different from the percived racism your talking about.
Kyra, still got that phone number if you want;)
gitalyfe said:
Journalists threatening to gut punch fellow citizens ? Such a peaceful Olympic city Chicago would have been. I can see it now .. Gold Medallist gut punched because it was Kanye that shoulda won.
Shannon said:
Ha ha! Good point!!
gitalyfe said:
Thanks Shannon
SteveO said:
Maybe you didn't have a blog then and the "History" is irrelevant as it's your countries history - as I'm sure you wouldn't even know Australia's history - but expect these people to be culturally sensitive to yours - ignorance and arrogance at it's best.
But you know what, I can't see anywhere in your blog where you say. "You know what, we should just move on because our African American Actors have done some pretty ordinary impersonations of Anglo-Saxons."
Another excuse, degree of cultural history is an excuse for it to be ok to impersonate Anglo-saxons poorly.
You have just shown you are a true racist, you make excuses like the above for African Americans, but it's NOT ok sfor Anglo Saxons - hypocrite.
Message from Montie said:
Ignorant means lack of knowledge. Everybody is ignorant of something, but Australia was not ignorant about the history of black face, they were just ridiculous enough to make a joke out of it. Kyles is not racist. What she is is tired of racism.
BN said:
Yeh, Shes's so tired of racism any likes equallity so much. Kyras' the one who said that groups should treated differently base on colour. Do you realize by constanty harping on the past you are only introducing these views to a new generation and not fixing anything?. I bet you don't.
johnno said:
listen luv,thats your history not ours,you bloody yanks are the ignorant ones,tell us some Australian history, i dare say you couldn't but us aussie are supposed to know about your history, hypocrosy!
ohowy said:
Montie, actually as an Aussie I can tell you that until this incident, I had no knowledge of this blackface thing.Actually I still dont know what the history of it is, only today I have learnt that it is insulting to Americans and for what its worth I consider myself to more aware of whats going on around the world than most of my friends. Yet ive never hard of blackface. So I think BN has a point, how can something be racist if we have no knowledge of what is racist about it? Clearly blackface refers to something specific in your history, sorry mate but Im not that interested in American history. We have our own sordid past which includes racism, which we are still coming to terms with and still trying to make amends for. But I gotta tell you, for commentators like the goofball who wrote this blog to label someone ignorant of your history racist is a bit ignorant you must admit.Especially when the leader (who is a plastic surgeon) is of Indian descent! You cant label it as racist purely because they used black faces unless you label every black person who imitates a white person, including many current American movies racist. Im sure if many more Aussies knew about what the problem with this blackface is then they wouldnt have done it. Australia is actually quite stunned at the outrage, we are so proud of being the most multicultural country on earth, of our tolerance and welcome to allcomers, so it was quite a shock to cop this label or being racist.
Wonderland said:
As you noted, Hollywood has the history of blackface; so I would like to note Australia does not. There is no slave trade history in Australia. Any ignorance you speak of relates to Afican-Americans living in the States and let's be honest, that has little to do with Australia. Painting your face black or white is not racist, unless you have some attachment to American civil rights history. This was highlighted to me by my Australian friend of Sudanese origin who doesn't understand the rage. As someone who has lived among different cultures - Asian and Middle Eastern - for many years, actions that may mean something in your home country take on an entirely different meaning in the context of another culture. Better to focus on intention rather than action. This IS life.
Jim Buzan said:
Ms Kyles - 72% of Australians surveyed said it wasn't racist. I think in a previous blog you said it wasn't racist. It isn't racist but was very bad comedy. However, my view is that you and the US media aren't in a position to judge anyway. South Park and Family Guy are abhorrent yet your networks still run these shows. Your society tolerates the constant degrading of minority groups in the name of entertainment, comedy and profits.
I refer to the Chaser's War (ABC Television Australia) who were suspended for two weeks recently for a very poor skit on ill children. A major radio shock-jock was also suspended for a crappy skit as well. In Australia we take these issues much more seriously than the US because we have standards that the US has long forgotten - people get suspended and people get sacked. But in the US, Hollywood and the networks do it for the shock value and to make money.
Ms Kyles - as an American citizen, you don't have the right to sit in judgement of another nation - that country that I label Land of the Free - and Dumb.
Message from Montie said:
Jim Buzan, every time somebody puts something out htere for the public to look at, that topic is in a position to be judged. And as far as 72 percent of Americans saying it's not racist, that means nothing to me. If I survey four people and three say it's not racist, then that's 75 percent. Give me some actual numbers for how many people were surveyed.
And how dare you say America is the land of the dumb for not sitting around laughing at an entire era of bigotry, hate, and humiliation based solely on skin color.
Phelpsy said:
Montie,
The skit was not about race... it was about the Jacksons??? and who hasn;t laughed at them before.
BN said:
In the Australian survey it was around 30 000 people (Total Pop 22 000 000) people from across all states of Australia. The final result for it was around 70% - 80% in favour of saying it wasn't racist (Don't worry, I can get the exact numbers if you want).As an Engineer I can say you would get a accurate representation of the entire population from this sample. But if you don't trust me go and ask a maths teacher from your school. I trust you won't because I know you not going to like the answer. Especially when he tells you that an even smaller sample could get an accurate national result (as would probably be the case in America). And how dare you lable Australia as a nation being Bigots and Liers when you are supporting a Writer that doesn't state all the facts (proven) and is only one preaching inequality. Like a said, we are only equal if we are all treated equal which you still can't seem to grasp.
awol78 said:
Let me get this straight... Eddie Murphy (a black American) dresses up and sends up an Asian guy, a White guy, a Fat Woman and an intellectually challenged man - all for a comedy movie - and no-one bats an eyelid? And then Robert Downey Jr is nominated for an Oscar - for comedy - for a recent film where he is a White American dressing up and pretending to be a black guy playing an Australian - and no-one bats an eyelid? YET... A couple of Aussie blokes dress up as the Jacksons and THAT'S racist? Harry... Get over it, get a life, and get back on a plane! American's TOO sensitive!
Kyra Kyles said:
Again, if many black comedians did this, perhaps that would be something to discuss. I hate that Eddie Murphy movie, but that was at least equal opportunity offense a la "Family Guy," who makes fun of much more and nobody bats an eyelid. In fact, they were featured on the Emmy's in the midst of "dog abuse." Robert Downey Jr. did not get out there in some shoe polish with an afro wig doing a horrible dance, or believe me, he wouldn't have gotten nominated for anything but a beatdown. I have no problem with people portraying other races if it's done in a tasteful manner, but watching a group of boot-black individuals who have named themselves "Jive" anything is hardly only offensive to those of us who are "sensitive." Harry, despite awol78's instructions, I thank you for all you do. These Aussie idiots need to get back in the time machine and join us here in 2009.
awol78 said:
Pfft. Shoe polish vs. black make-up. A send up is a send up is a send up.
Kyra Kyles said:
Not really. Shoe polish and wild-headed wigs evokes the racist blackface of the past, whereas the magic of Hollywood is a different story. I'm not putting makeup job v makeup job...I'm putting intent and execution up against each other. The buffoonish performance put on by these men is offensive. I'm not saying it is for everyone, as I can only speak for myself.
Jaypee said:
What a load of Double Standards. The Sendup was of the Jackson 5 it was not a send up of American racist history.
Robert Downy Jnr was not doing a sendup of the Jackson 5 therefore did not need a wig and outlandish costume. but he did change the color of his face for the part he was portraying.
Phelpsy said:
"evokes the racist blackfavce of the past" whose past is that Kyra?? I am sure this never even entered the performaers head - nor mine when watching it. We do not have a blackface past. I agree - in Amercia - it would have been seen as racist given that past - but that past doesn;t exist here.
Nick C said:
Is that a joke? So I am right to assume that people are better off living in a nation where children have free access to guns, and it is impossible to go out at night in any of the major cities without fear of being bashed, mugged, shot, raped or having your shoes stolen?
American's are the most ignorant people in the world, and would do well to realise that their way is not the only way.
Oh and we should certainly mention that five of the six participants in the sketch are from multicultural backgrounds, and all are educated professionals currently working as doctors in their respective areas of medicine.
SteveO said:
Equal opportunity offense, what a laugh, at least in Australia people CAN face up to racism. A lot of the time American's make excuses. What a line - equal opportunity offense. Eddie has done MANY white impersonations as have other African American comedians bagged out "White People". Robert Downey Jr is also an accomplished actor, these were 2 Lebanese people, 2 Indians and 2 Aussies who didn't have the money to get dance lessons and proper costumes done up right, so what they were just trying to do a tribute in their own way. I have a pretty good idea where 2009 is and Australia are a hell of a lot more "culturally" sensitive than Americans, we have the most culturally diverse population "in the world". And at least I can walk down any street in Australia and not get mugged "because I'm white" which happened to a friend of mine and he was told it was because he's a whitey. And we don't segregate and have races all bundled in "White Neighbourhoods" or "Black Neighbourhoods" Americans are not only the most arrogant people in the world, who show absolutely NO humility, but also the biggest hypocrites in the ENTIRE world. You are a joke, no wonder you are THE MOST HATED COUNTRY.
hotracer61 said:
You bloody yanks are all the same, if you don't like it then every one has to agree with you. You people are full of shit and continue to infect and spread your high and mighty values all over the world. You need to get outside of that square and look back into it and see for yourself how much crap that you dribble and leave other people alone, no wonder just about every country in the world thinks that yanks full of shit. It's ok for you to do it as you can make an excuse for it but when other people do it as fun and humor you get up on you soap box and start preaching your high and might shit. PISS OFF AND GET A LIFE.
Cory said:
hmmm who's being a bigot now ? You muppets need a sense of humour. Maybe a little bit of research before you shoot your mouth off girlfriend will set you in a good position for next time.
Jethro said:
Couldn't agree more!
malgyver said:
The only reason anyone is talking about this is because of Harry's reaction. I think it was completely harmless. The whole thing was done in good humor and was not menat to be offensive to anyone. Totally agree with awol78. I think Harry has taken the conservative approach just to cover his own ar$e.
Kyra Kyles said:
This wasn't even one bit harmless. I can understand that there are some who do not grasp the history of blackface and think this is no more obnoxious than "South Park" or "Family Guy" or "White Chicks," but this is truly ridiculous. Unless these performers arrived at the show after spending their lives under a giant rock, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't know it is offensive. I appreciate Harry, even though he pretty much ruined "Will and Grace" with that Leo character. All is forgiven Harry!
awol78 said:
Finally you say something of value Kyra - he did ruin Will & Grace. And good point! Shouldn't gay men be offended by two straight men playing stereotypcal gay characters? Of course not! This is PC gone grazy.
Kyra Kyles said:
I am so sick of the term "PC." People come from different perspectives and have different opinions. With my knowledge of blackface and status as a black woman, I find this offensive. Many people I know would as well, and I disagree that it has only gone viral because of Connick Jr.'s reaction. You don't have to find this offensive and I am not leading a march/flight to Australia. I am simply pointing out what I find to be a stupid and thoughtless move by a group of men. I would never dream of telling gay men what they should be offended by, but if the majority of them were offended by someone on TV, I would not think it was my place to tell them to relax.
Charlotte said:
Please name for me some things that happened in Austrlian histroy. Just because AMERICANS are taught AMERICAN HISTORY does not mean the whole world is - FFS grow up. No one in australia took it as raciest - it was a group of people pertending to be Jackson 5 - you guys really are so senstive it ain't funny
tonydelk said:
Actually I am in Australia and I find it extremely racist. Of course, you would argue that is because I am an American. However, because I am able to understand the nuance that exists in life I can see that is racist. "Blackface" is inherently racist as it depicts a caricature of the black minstrel, the black plantation worker, um slave?, or of the dandy black servant. The fact that Robert Downey JR did NOT use black polish is extremely important (not to mention the wigs), as it is possible to play a different ethnicity w/o being racist.
tonydelk said:
And I do know the history of Australia, a history of genocide of the native BLACK people, The White Australia Policy, One Nation party, Tampa and have you already forgotten the Cronulla riots? 2005! I am not saying that Australia as a nation is racist but don't act as if Australia has a tremendous multicultural history.
Fred42au said:
Come on!!! Are not the Jacksons black? Was not Michael white? The actors can only be ridiculed for being poor and not being able to afford better outfits. The act was a tribute to a very successful family. (sarcastic) How bloody racist!!!
rys from oz said:
Cronulla Riots - a HUGE media beef up. Where were you tonydelk when we had the SORRY walk over the Sydney Harbour Bridge? Hmmmmmmm!
Of course there are racists in every culture its how we deal with them that counts. Really I still am perplexed as to the degree of heat regarding this issue.
johnno said:
and what about the kkk in the south arse hole
Ads said:
Actually, you are in Australia, and you actually don't even understand what the term "racist" means. I have to applaud the Kylesfiles person at least for not using this worn-out and incorrect label.
AustralianGal said:
Kyra, I'm Australian and can appreciate that the african american or the ancestors to slave american race would find anyone dressing up and being goof balls offensive. However, before saying these guys need a gut punch remember we too have history and are far removed from the American culture. We are only 200 years old and our history does not involve the revolt of slavery like it does your country and in the U.K and other parts of the world. Australians have the most relaxed nature and we know how to laugh at ourselves. Unfortunately this was at this expense of others on this occassion. Most Australians did not find the skit funny at all. Blackface is outdated, however, we did not find it in racist taste because it was meant in light heartedness and not at all to send up the struggles of the black race. I thought that we were all joining together now and that black Americans had moved past being the second class race and had joined in being an equal race with every culture, class and race throughout the world, why is constant reflection disabling you to laugh or see humour at something that was meant only in good fun? If you did a send up on convicts, which is the majority of Australians history, I think all Australians would laugh because that was then and the only way to deal with the bad is to smile at it. It's not at all suggesting we should take away what's happened, but please, as a history lesson on Australia, we just don't understand your countries pain and suffering the way you do and the last thing an Australian would do is try to offend Americans. After all, it seems ok to send up Rednecks, what's the difference in these current times? Those men were all of mixed race themselves and the T.V show Hey Hey is the most uncontroversial show ever put on Australian television. Accept the apology of the network and move on - we only tried to celebrate a show that aired our networks since the 50s and now its put a dampner on it - one stupid litte blackface skit. I think you all should wake up and stop being so damned defensive.
malgyver said:
Hi Kyles, I just read your mission statement and can see why you're kicking up such a fuss. I feel that being politically correct to your degree stifles humanity and would make it impossible for anyone to laugh at anything for fear of offending someone or something.
Kyra Kyles said:
Well, I don't think you can get to know me from a mission statement anymore than I can say I know your full motives from these few comments posted here right now. I am all for humor, and enjoy all types of show with edgy content. However, I am totally against being thoughtless, obnoxious and culturally obtuse. I do not consider that PC. That, I guess, is where we differ. Glad we share an opinion about Connick's awful effect on "Will & Grace." I do thank you for the discussion. I do not expect everyone to agree with me. That would make for some boring conversation.
malgyver said:
Hi Kyles, I am a married white man with 2 yound boys and a little one on the way. I work as a design engineer and enjoy sailing, riding, building things and spending time with the family. Now that we know each other a little better I can assure you my motives were to try to defend the guys in the show who I think were not being offensive but simply humerous. Thats all.
Kyra Kyles said:
Ha ha ha! Okay, you made me smile a bit with that mini-biography. I understand that your motives are not to support meanness or discrimination. All I'm saying is that I think that humor went over the line. I acknowledge that the only person I can speak for is myself. And if others aren't offended, so be it. I appreciate the comments.
lyndon said:
See this was an Australian show meant for an Australian audience - we didn't import a few hundred thousand Africans to use as slaves, we didn't have Jim Crow laws, we never had an insulting 'blackface' genre of entertainment to portray people of colour as somehow less than human and inferior.
To be honest when I watched it on the telly last night I thought it was funny - simply because it was so lame. I didn't read any racism into it and I don't for a second believe there was any hateful intent by the performers. A bit of fun. Loosen up.
If Leno or Letterman did it by all means crack it at them, but get of our effing backs with this bizarre moral high-horsery.
Jaypee said:
agreed
winiblues said:
How can these guys consisting of indians and an arab most likely first generation Aussies know the history of the blackface. first stop the N word being used in movies and music before you go all ape shit on a harmless bit of fun. im offended that MJ wasnt white enough and had a full nose in this skit.
tonydelk said:
So are you saying that Indians and Arabs cannot be racist? Please explain how that could be true in anyway.
Phelpsy said:
See - you are thinking we all know American history - we all don't and don't need to. I didn't even think it was racist when I saw it. I, myself, am aware that in Amercia it could be seen as offensive - again - given the history and contect - but not in this country - you know what - you impersonate someone or parody them - then you try and look like them. What a sad state of affairs that this has even become about race - why couldn't it be about poor taste given MJ's recent death.. but to see race in this - well - I think that is racist - as it is not about race - it is about 5 people - who happen to be black!
namaste said:
Whooo weee whoo wee.....This is what happens when you don't realize that you are responsible for what you manifest. The unfortunate thing is that they won't be held accountable for their actions because it was done "in jest" *rolls eyes*. My response---Karma is a B****.
Kyra Kyles said:
Well, I am holding them accountable. It may not matter to them, but what they did is too ridiculous for me to ignore.
namaste said:
You git 'em Kyra!!!
lyndon said:
In addition to my comment above I'd like to know your view on scantily clad women appearing on the telly (eg. Baywatch) and the way its seen in some of the more socially conservative countries around the world.
Do you think perhaps you ought to censor things like that because it might cause offence to someone in, say, Saudi Arabia? No, probably not.
I think intent and cultural differences are the important themes here. Simply because putting shoe polish on your face and wearing a bad afro wig have negative connotations and associations in your country (and given your history rightly so) doesn't give you the right to somehow judge us Australians. If you've never visited I urge you to do so - we have one of the most multicultural societies on earth and any racial disharmony - and let's face it given a large enough population you're inevitably bound to find a few - pales in comparison to the disparity and social discrimination found in the States.
I get where you're coming from but really you've just got it wrong.
chopperblue said:
mate, they are already copping it in the aussie press and forums. what accountability do you want, prison time?
DarkAngel said:
Is it possible that we've come far enough that Blackface has lost some of the offense it had back in the day? I mean the point Mr Connick makes is that Blackface was used to ridicule and poke fun of black people -- i don't think the Aussies were trying to do this. I think they honestly thought their act would be more believable if they put on black makeup.
Kyra Kyles said:
Honestly, DarkAngel, I would say "no." Despite progress we've made, I don't think that something like this has lost its sting-- at least not for me. We have greater diversity on TV and film, but still a ways to go. There was blackface in the Spike Lee-produced "Bamboozled," but it was used in a completely different (and enlightening) way. This is just awful to me. But I do thank you for offering up an alternative view of how this debacle took place.
guest said:
Hi Kyra. I have to say I was aware of the reunion special, flipped over to watch it, at the moment I flipped over saw people in blackface, cringed, and flipped out again. I tend to be unable to watch anything that makes me cringe. I tried to watch the clip you've attached and can't get past the first 5 secs. Since you seem to have watched it can I ask you, apart from the fact that it's in blackface, is there anything in the act which is racially discriminatory?
Additionally, if you were to say it was also offensive because the act itself was pathetic - that doesn't mean anything. The Red Faces segment was always about regular, talentless people coming on with acts you can put together in your lounge room and just having a bit of fun, while experiencing the honour of being put down by one of the judges, Red Symons. Some examples - try searching for the clips of previous Red Faces segments "Hyde Park boys", "Raymond J Bartholomew" and "crash test dummies revenge".
Also, while the US and probably a number of other countries have general societal awareness that blackface is considered unacceptable, Australians mainly are ignorant of this. They're vaguely aware blackface has been a form of performance in the past, they have seen Eddie Murphy movies where he puts on suits and demeans all sorts of people, White Chicks (although I cringed away from that one), and Tropic Thunder (I watched this one as I thought - Robert Downey Jnr? If he's in it it's probably not going to be tasteless). They don't have "the history of blackface" taught in schools. They don't have a large 'African-Australian' population that raise awareness of what the use of blackface represents.
I'm only aware of why blackface isn't considered acceptable because I browse the internet and spend the majority of my spare time reading.
So, bearing in mind the general societal ignorance in Australia of blackface considered being representative of demeaning treatment historically and that the Red Faces segment is generally meant to be a sloppy, talent-less, regular guy, so-called 'talent' segment - is the act itself racially discriminatory? (As again, I can't bear to watch it).
On the issue of having used blackface - obviously since I have trouble even watching the clip I also consider it to be awful. But I think DarkAngel has a point. Why is "White Chicks" acceptable but blackface not? Why is it ok for some people to go around calling others the 'n' word and for others it's insulting? Short answer - while there are double-standards out there, the experiences of maltreatment due to racism are still in living memory, and therefore anything considered of representative of that maltreatment in the past are still considered unacceptable today.
But with this particular matter - if the act itself (apart from the use of blackface) is not racially discriminatory could I ask you to consider whether you are able to put it down to general Australian ignorance on the historical importance of blackface?
If the act itself is racially discriminatory, then, by all means, let it rip.
Also, agree - big thumbs up to Harry for standing up for his principles.
guest said:
Jeez I'm long-winded. Seriously - I have trouble remembering the last time I was able to write something that consisted of just one paragraph. Except for now ^^.
guest said:
Lastly (I promise ... no really), just wanted to thank you Kyra for your balanced, reasoned responses. Often on emotive issues like this reasoned responses are sadly lacking.
billyblogster said:
Kyra, I thought their act was in poor taste, and not in the slightest bit funny. Nevertheless, I don't see it as being at all racist, as there was no intent to cause injury.
The aforementioned examples of white people parodying black people, and black people parodying white people atest to how commonplace this is even in mainstream media such as film. Do I like it, no. Is it racist, no, not in my opinion. Does it suggest Australia is 30 years behind, I don't think so. In fact one could mount the counter-argument that the "freedom of expression" enjoy in Australia about sensitive topics suggests that their culture has evolved beyond the stifling constraints of political correctness that is dampening debate in most advanced democracies. Australia is a far more multi-cultural society than Chicago is, and I mean multi-cultural in the literal sense of the term. It is a county in which people from other nations choose to live, and in which they can, and do, retain any part of the culture from the country of their birth. There is no attempt towards assimilation, and I suggest to you that America's view of itself as a multi-cultural country is in fact misguided, as the pressures on minority immigrant groups to "become American" is far greater than it is in Australia. I have lived in both countries extensively, in addition to Japan, Singapore, Thailand, Russia and the UK.
I agree the skit was dated (which, by the way, was the specific intention), and that it didn't tickly my funny bone. However, you should have addressed your comments to the people who performed the skit, and not extended it to an entire country without being better informed than you seem to be. :-)
tails81 said:
we dont descriminate agaist black people here in australia this has been made big by harry,this act was 1 of 4 n they were the only ones that donnated there price money to charity these guys were caring not racists.
Kyra Kyles said:
Their money might have gone to a good cause and I cannot judge them as individuals as I do not know them, but that performance was awful. I appreciate your comment, tails81, but I don't know that an entire country can be said to "not discriminate against black people." I wouldn't even be able to say that about America, though we have obvious diversity and have made strides in racial unity over the years. Thank you for weighing in. I don't take this as an Australian thing. I am just appalled at Jackson Jive, honestly.
tails81 said:
we dont descriminate agaist black people here in australia this has been made big by harry,this act was 1 of 4 n they were the only ones that donnated there price money to charity these guys were caring not racists.
Carolom said:
Re:
"we dont descriminate agaist black people here in australia"
Tails81 you are welcome to join Jim (who also denies is racism in this country ) when we go to visit some of my Aboriginal friends and hear their every day real life stories about every day racism and how being Black in this country is a very different experience if your skin is fair because of the 'abo, boong and coon' perceptions that are still rife across this divided land.
Charlotte said:
How about you come and visit me and see how my white clients have racism - so many things I could get for them if they had aboriginal in them
Jackie said:
Harry Connick Jr. does get props for speaking up. I can't imagine living in a place where this would be allowed to air, much less receive applause.
Those perfomers are practicing doctor's? They should have come back out without their makeup and let their patients and the world see what these doctor's think is funny.
tails81 said:
ok point taken america south africa & australias view on racism differs emensley R.I.P michael.
jojo said:
There was no malice intended.
These guys - 2 are Indians, 1 is from Lebanon - were doing a tribute to MJ.
There is a lot of discrimination against our Indigenous population except it's done on a hidden, subtle level, not out in the open like the skit on tv last night.
Kyra Kyles said:
Hi Jojo: It doesn't matter to me whether they are not white...the fact is they aren't black. The way they did their makeup, the manner in which they were talking and moving was offensive to me. I understand few people would be stupid enough to be racist on TV, but a lot of people are misguided and ignorant of history. I would count these men among that number, though I certainly can see -- and appreciate-- your point on subtle discrimination against the indigenous population.
SamFlint1 said:
Actually a few were or do you believe Indians (Asian Indians) are njot black?
Ads said:
OOps... There you go girl, I was waiting for you to say the R word. No idea, seriously you have no idea...
ohpuhleeease said:
Since this issue has arisen I would like to say that I am disgusted with the racism exhibited by Americans including the author. To make derogatory remarks about people of another nation - is racist! So please everyone, don't pretend not to be offensive yourselves. And Kyra, if and when the Americans move on from their tragic history, they may eventually be able to laugh at skits. It's obvious you're all painfully sensitive about your past. Ditto for the blacks who are racist against whites. And yes, Kyra, some Asian Indians are blacker than black. And just as whites dress up as whites, they have the right to put on black makeup in their own country - a country without your baggage.
jojo said:
But that is where there is a difference in what our 2 cultures perceive, Kyra ; we don't have the black and white minstrels in our history (had to explain it to my 12 yr old) and there wasn't any racism intended yet it was automatically assumed by Harry, et el.
A few years ago Serena Williams was playing in a big tournament here in Oz and was deliberately late on court holding up play for some time; when she came out and offered no apology the crowd boo-ed her. When she returned to USA her mother claimed the crowd was racist. They weren't, they didn't see the colour of her skin only the mental game she played on her opponent in the heat of Summer keeping everyone waiting.
But it was assumed.
Now, I'm going to take a mild exception to your words "but they aren't black" as here in Oz there is a whole other argument about "real" Indigenous people vs white-skinned descendants and who can or can't call themselves Aboriginal.
See, it's a perception of different cultures.
Kyra Kyles said:
When I say they aren't "black," I feel it applies because the Jackson 5 is black. (I realize some dispute this about MJ toward the end, but still.) I understand other countries think differently about skin color, but I would not have been offended if they had not put that inky color all over their faces. First of all, nobody in the Jackson 5 even looks like that. They are brown. It is quite clear that this was a mockery of the Jacksons' appearance.
As for Serena, I understand that sometimes people may claim race as a reason for ill treatment and be totally in the wrong. In this case, I don't think you need to assume anything. All you need to do is click "play" on this awful video and you learn everything you need to know.
jojo said:
And an apology was offered and accepted live on air -
"Connick returned at the end of the show to accept an apology from Somers. “When you were very kindly judging Red Faces I noticed that when we had the Jackson Jive on, and it didn’t occur to me until afterwards that we may have offended you with that act and I deeply apologise on behalf of all of us because I know that for your countrymen it is an insult to have a black face routine,” Somers said.
Connick then said, “I would just like to say on behalf of my country I know it was done in humour but we have spent so much time not trying to make black people look like buffoons that when we see something like that we take it really to heart. I know it was in good fun and the last thing I want to do is take this show to a down level, because you know how much I like this show, I feel at home here, but if I knew that was going to be part of this show I definitely wouldn’t have done it.”
He then thanked Somers for the opportunity to explain as an American. “You are a big man for allowing me to do that,” he told Daryl."
And you know what, Kyra?
I think this is the best thing to happen in a long time because it, hopefully, will make the bogans (Aussie version of rednecks) rethink their behaviour/attitude/underlying message, etc.
We have a sports show here in Oz that has done far worse and there have been few apologies offered over the years.
Nick C said:
"...nobody in the Jackson 5 even looks like that. They are brown. It is quite clear that this was a mockery of the Jacksons' appearance."
That is 100% correct. The sketch was a parody of the Jackson 5, with a humerous intention and a humerous outcome. It would not have mattered if the Jackson 5 were black, white, yellow, brown or orange, it was a parody on the Jackson 5 and race should not be drawn into it.
A rather well informed caller on the radio this morning announced: yes, the Jackson 5 are black. Wildly successful black people, who you would guarantee are proud to be black. The sketch was a parody on a successful music group and should not have been interpreted any differently to sketches of other successful music groups, eg The Village People.
Christo said:
How did I know there'd be fellow Australians posting, claiming, "We're not racist." Most people probably aren't, but they are blissfully ignorant - which is almost as bad.
The majority of Australians turn a blind eye to the horrendous living conditions of Aboriginal people in the outback, never even consider Aboriginal deaths in custody, and when things like the Stolen Generation are mentioned, think. "Get over it, that was forty years ago"
"We're not racist." It's a nice idea.
Kyra Kyles said:
Hi Christo:
Yeah, I don't know any entire country who can claim not to have a racist among them. I am not condemning Australia anyway, but the actions of these fools and the show staff who let them have a platform. Where's the Sandman when you need him? They should have yanked each and every one of these goofs off the stage. Thank you for lending historical perspective and insights.
justndorse said:
A popular and iconic show that's always been ratings winner is now seen as a platform for goofs? The show only went off air 11 years ago.
Kyra Kyles said:
It is a platform for goofs at the moment the Jackson Jive went on air. I do not mean to insult the entire show because I have not been exposed to it all.
Shinda said:
I don't particularly accept Apollo's Sandman. I actually think that character is a bit offensive and have not watched that show in ages.
Colin of Perth said:
So you've been to outback Australia? I have, and i've witnessed the countless millions of dollars put into housing, only to see the walls kicked out or the floors dug out to make fires, Ive been to the free health clinics only to find empty waiting rooms, while outside in the shade of the clinic the population drink themselves to death. Did you know the communities in northwestern Australia receive royalties from mining operations every month? You may not believe me (Even i didnt beleive it when i saw it) but the elders, when they get that money take a flat bed truck into the whitefolks and get it loaded up with pallets of alcohol then drive back to their community, I really wish i was kidding, so im not blissfully ignorant when i say they dont want help, they just want to be left alone.
rohanm said:
Colin,
The reason they do that is because even now they dont have a chance for a decent job in any of the cities ...so they are stuck in this vicious cycle depending on handouts..
next thing you would say is the black people were happy on the cotton fields
Carolom said:
Here is the voice of some of those people you are misrepresenting:
www.earthsong.net.au
Christo said:
Who would have thought that dispossessing a people of their land, taking their children away, breaking ties with a millennia old culture, and denying their humanity might result in disconnection, alcoholism, and violence?
I've worked in outback Australia, and seen the degradation. Apparently unlike you, I also considered what some of the causes might have been.
Colin of Perth said:
Christo, I dont want to hijack the debate here, nor am I really in the mood to debate the merits of land poessesion with you, partly because its no longer relevant, simply put the argument that white invasion is still an excuse some 200 years after the fact is wearing pretty thin, ask the 'normans' or 'saxons' how they feel about it, or the Scots, the Irish, hell pick any country in Europe.. show me a country that hasn't had its population displaced by expansion of an emipre at one point.
You also failed to mention (Or skipped over) the Native Title laws Australia has which provides traditional owners with rights over traditional lands, which is why the elders get the royalty cheques in the first place, so lets give it a rest shall we?
Before you talk causes can you explain why half the aboriginal population live, work & pay taxes & are enjoying all the benefits of the 21st century? It would appear your culture shock theory isn't an excuse for them, so I would appreciate you not trying to sell it to me.
I would also like to point out that you cant deny that every attempt isn't being made to fix the errors of the past with free housing, free clinics, specialist education centres, billions of dollars in aid & most recently the massive NT intervention which (For its efforts) has been branded discriminatory by the UN, thats what we get for trying to help.
To top it off, we have goverment departments that are so scared of another 'stolen generation' that they are leaving abused babies with std's in communities out of sheer terror of being labled racist, now thats criminal!
In the context of how this applies to blackfacing, I go back to my comment about perspective, both sides need to apply some & while we are at it apply some common sense about what we show on national TV in the future as well.
ohpuhleeease said:
Agreed, Colin. I've worked in the health sector with aboriginals and they currently receive around 8 times the funding in health care and welfare than that of white Australians. I have seen aboriginals placed in good employment and it almost never works - they drop out and continue to drink 90% of their welfare checks away in booze. Similarly with housing - I can't remember seeing the last public housing that wasn't trashed.
Remember the story of a year or two ago that child incest was rife in the aboriginal communities? Even they themselves admitted to it. One 12 year-old was repeatedly raped by 5 family members. Yet the government can't take them away for fear of creating further furore. Race relations are much deeper that what appears on the surface. And neither do Australians have a history of "blackface" or a civil rights movement. And yes, we have lots of blacks here as well. Not everybody uses American sensitivites as their moral benchmarks.
gitalyfe said:
Exactly right Colin. We have apologised, by way of our current megalomaniacal political regime, for dreadful stuff that happened 40 years before I was born, because of the colour of MY SKIN - not because I perpetrated such terrible mistreatment. Hey Kyra, I just changed some spelling in this blog because of the differences between American and UK English. Can I call that racist .. please pretty please ?
bossdeddy said:
Christo, there are racist everywhere, as for indigenus australians, well its true the services are lacking in the outback, for everyone not just aborigines and regards to deaths in custody, are you suggesting that when they break a law they should not have to face up to their crimes. Aborigines have issues that are not always a direct reaction to white man policy. The stolen generation, yes it happened and it was unfortunate however the intention at the time was noble but misguided, in that period there was little understanding of cultral/tribal identity. Rather be bitter try being like the majority of aussies and work to a solution. And yes peopleshould get over it, you cant live in the past forever, its time to create a better future.
Colin of Perth said:
On another note Christo, you do realise that the forced adoption of babies was perpetrated on single white mothers in the same period as well, or do you just believe the politcal spin?
Historically speaking, my ancestors were forced out of England and sent to Australia (As convicts) should I get an apology from the Queen? or is it justified because they decided to steal stale bread instead of starve to death?
People need to get a little perspective and see that this was meant to be a tribute to an african american singing troupe, nothing more.
All that being said though, yes, the skit should have been pulled or at the very least revised to avoid 'boot polish' makeup.
Carolom said:
Christo I agree...most Australians are oblivious ro the impact of government sanctioned child kidnapping, the abuse and sexual slavery that happened in many of the homes and institutions, the on going grief and loss of mothers who are alive today and have never seen their stolen babies again that can not simply be put in the 'get over it' basket.
Any one who knows someone who who was kidnapped from her /his mothers arms and has experienced the intergenerational trauma that defines such horrendous childhood experiences knows that we are in the very very early days of the recovery of these actions and legalised racial vilification and parodying black-faces is another demonstration of how far that ignorance runs.
SamFlint1 said:
What just like the Americans do to the indians. Americans need to look in thier own backyard and closet for skeletons before giving the rest of the world a leture on morals!!
Fred42au said:
I think I remember our Prime Minister publicly apologising on behalf of all Australians for the Stolen Generation mistake. That's certainly not being blissfully ignorant, is it? Some individuals may think bad thoughts, but why should all Australians be labelled racist? I consider you a racist, Kyra! You labelled me with a whole race and that is far more offensive than what happened on TV.
NessaLee said:
I am a Sydney-sider and woke up this morning to hear the news of this controversy. I couldn't believe that this had been allowed to go to air, then I thought about Aussies... not really surprised at all. I have lived in NY and London and am very aware of how much thought has gone into educating people about what is and isn't racist and, it is with regret that I have to say, that Australia did get left behind. There are many educated and thoughtful Auatralians who do "get it" but many Aussies who are just completely narrow minded and backward. The program that this was shown was a reunion special of a show that has been off the air in Australia for 10 years and, based on this skit, should remain that way. I have always been a fan of Harry Connick and he has now just stepped up a notch in my esteem.
Kyra Kyles said:
Yeah, NessaLee...Let 'em know! I appreciate you coming in here to comment. I definitely agree with you on that show, based on what I saw in this footage.
chefman21 said:
It's a stand up of the jackson 5! What the hell do you want them to do? Wear signs?
Don't even bother bringing up the living conditions of aboriginal's in the outback. Most people know that they don't want our help. In fact I have several dozen aboriginal friends (from football) who say the exact same thing. It's a lost cause.
Equal opportunity offense? The guys who did it aren't "anglo" Australians. They are lebanese, indian and I think there was an asian in there as well. Eddie murphy is a racist prick in that movie.
What about American's with people from the middle east? You guys aren't exactly fans... Or that guy from the KKK. How can you call us racist when you let that prick go to air?
The stolen generation is a sore point for most Australians. It should never have happened and most Australians are shocked and horrified about it.
rohanm said:
We can see how sorry you are from the way life has changed for the descendants of the stolen generation (NOT!)..they still dont have any chance of being in the mainstream so called OZZIE life...
anything insulting is deemed that was just a fun things..and followed with comments..dont come to australia...well australia should stick to themselves then...but as far as i can see you dig up coal and sell it..and everything else is imported or copied from other countries...
hunter67 said:
Yet another ignorant comment from an American who knows nothing about what they are talking about. Which is often anything that occurs outside their borders. For your information, we dig up much more than coal due to the rich mineral deposits that are present in our subsoil. Gold, diamonds, pearls, opals, silver, copper, iron ore, you name it, we've just about got it, and the rest of the world hankers for it, lucky us!
Yeah, we do import lots of stuff as well, from all the American companies that base their operations in China cause it's cheap. By the way, last time I looked, our economy wasn't in the gutter, so we must be doing something right.
And Australia was sticking to themselves, until you idiots decided to blow things out of proportion. This was purely a send-up of the Jackson 5, not of blackface performances of America's past. The wigs and makeup weren't accurate, but these guys are responsible for their own costuming and don't have the access to Robert Downey Jr's makeup chair.
"Red Faces", as the name suggests, is about ordinary people with no particular talent doing zany skits and performances that are generally cringeworthy, thus producing "Red Faces" all around. We also used to have a real talent show years ago called "New Faces", Red Faces is a take on that, but without the "talent". Maybe you should watch some of the other skits that were on that night if you want to get the idea.
In fact, Kyra might want to check out last week's Red Faces skits, there was a kid who painted himself with Vegemite, which you should know is BLACK. Hooley Dooley, maybe he was trying to look like a "blackface" as well!!!
Hey, Hey It's Saturday ran for 28 years and was a hugely popular show. Given the record-breaking ratings of the past two weeks, it still is. The Connick interpretation of the Jackson Jive and the subsequent American furore that followed was incorrect, unwarranted and unnecessary. So the guys used black paint instead of brown, who cares??!! I don't hear the African-Americans referring to themselves as "brown" people if you want to be picky. If they were really meaning to parody the "blackface" routine, where were the white lips? There were no white lips because THEY WERE TRYING TO BE THE JACKSON 5. Get real, you people, surely you have something better to do.
ohpuhleeease said:
You forgot uranium. Er....I mean coal..... LMAO
ohpuhleeease said:
Actually, speaking of copying....hmm....let me say this in 30 seconds. Ugg boots, hula hoops, the black box, Avian flu vaccine, hills hoists, bionic ear, the esky - all of which I believe were bought, stolen copyright (ugg boots) or represented to be American inventions. Even Rupert Murdoch began in Australia, as did Jenny Craig. America is the champion of hijacking the inventions of other countries - and if they didn't didn't invent them - they just buy out the companies, too too numerous to mention.
Rohanm, you are ignorant.
And Kyra, I notice you only bother replying to those who agree with you. hmmmmm
rohanm said:
You believe they are represented as stolen or you know? "Ugg boots, hula hoops, the black box, Avian flu vaccine, hills hoists, bionic ear, the esky" - not exactly'...civilisation would have gone extinct without those inventions!!
just look at the tv shows from early in the morning to evening on any of the channels...all are american shows....and everywhere else american products..Also, the CEO's of some of the major companies in australia are not australian..you can even manage the coal you are digging up...eg. BHP...and a little before Telstra...and others...
Mark said:
This is exactly the type of liberal rubbish that pollutes our society and media. This is a prime example of reverse racism and how do gooders have way too much of an impact on our society. It's okay for blacks to dress up as whites and people get a good laugh out of it but as soon as a couple of White Aussie guys dress up in black face and do a tribute skit it's racist. The same things happpen with black comedians who make jokes about whites...It's okay but when a white comedian makes joking remarks about blacks it deemed racist. Cant you people take a joke? Some Americans are way too sensative and are overracting. It was a tribute sketch on an Australian comedy show. For the record I am an American who has lived in Australia for the past 10 years. Australia is not a racist country, sure it has a troubled past with the Aboriginal people but it has tried it's best to come together and move on. If anything America is way more racist than any other country I have lived or travelled to. Harry Connick jr is entitled to his opinion as I am entitled to mine.
Kyra Kyles said:
Yeah, right. Liberal, shmiberal. This is about common sense. And reverse racism? Please. Racism is a system of oppression. Blacks, nor any other minority group, have the power to oppress anyone. Now, truly they can be bigoted, prejudiced or otherwise uncouth, but reverse racism is b.s. As I stated, I see no humor in mocking someone's race if it hurts them. I never saw the picket signs and uproar during "White Chicks," and if I had, I would have joined the protest. The Wayans worked with white partners to produce that foolishness. But what they did is stupid, but has little to do with an offensive and demeaning 100-year-old practice that needs to stay buried. As for black comedians mocking whites, often the manner in which that is done mocks blacks too. For ex., black people run from danger, whereas whites run toward it or black people put rims on cars whereas whites make investments. However, if you are offended by the jokes, go ahead and say something. Who is stopping you? Your decision not to say anything if you are so offended has no affect on me. If I see something dumb, I call it out and have no shame in doing so. This isn't about being overly sensitive, it's about asking for respect. And I think it's well within my rights, and the rights of others who feel mistreated to do so. Thanks for the comment, Mark. Guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.
bossdeddy said:
respect is earned and not a right but it should be freely given, black americans should have no right to complain about racism if they perform it themselves.So if the black community request that white society should colectively stop racism then as black woman you should work collectively with your fellow black community member to prevent racism on your part. You cant sit back and say if you think its racist then complain but then expect white people to ensure other white people are not being racist. Maybe kyra white people just see the humour as it was intended and dont jump to conclussions.
Kyra Kyles said:
Well, Bossdeddy, unlike yourself, I don't see myself as playing on "Team Black." I am an individual and earn respect as an individual. I didn't star in "White Chicks," and nor did I pay a cent to see "Norbit," so I have nothing to feel guilty for in that respect, just as you have no reason to feel guilty for blackface that happened before you were even a thought in your parents' minds. As for preventing racism, I do that, but thanks for the vote of confidence. I also work to call out stupidity and I can complain about whatever I want. It's not like I reported this show to the "Black High Court," as no such body exists. And I don't think you can say what "white people" see, as you can no more speak for whites as a whole than I can for blacks. If you find this funny, that's on you. I do not find it even remotely amusing, and that's my right. And that's correct, it is a right.
bossdeddy said:
I havent even watched the skit, Im no fan of aussie tv, actually tv in general is boring. I dont toally disagree with you Kyra but I do think a mountain is being made out of a mole hill. If on the other hand if the performers were just trying to make the jackson five/black people look stupid or being the slightest offensive I would back you all the way. However I dont think this is the case here. As for team blackor white, once a statement is made advising that this skit is offensive to african americans then you are playing for team black, not that theres anything wrong with that but as an individual which is what you should be first and foremeost you (or no one for that matter)cannot exist unless you are part of a community/society so we need to belong to a team of sorts, hopefully one day it will be just team human but until then we need to hold our own teams accountable just as much as we need to hold other teams accountable.
Colin of Perth said:
If I may make an observation..
"Blacks, nor any other minority group, have the power to oppress anyone."
Not to discredit that otherwise truthful statement but thats kind of hard to believe while im being finger printed, photographed and scanned just trying to get on a flight.. I would argue that it has been proven that minorities can influence majority governments into oppressing its own people (In at least some aspects of thier lives).
What some may call 'concern for wellbeing' or 'protecting our freedoms', I call 'trampling of basic human rights' & 'opression'. Is it nessecary? Perhaps, but thats an entirely different conversation.
greg3333 said:
"Please. Racism is a system of oppression. Blacks, nor any other minority group, have the power to oppress anyone" So the fact that the majority of the group was made up by minorities, does this tell you something. I keep reading we don't get it! I think it is you who doesnt get it. Australia is the most diverse country in the world, made up of all reces. We simply have a completely different humor to Americans..... however traditionally being so ignorant i doubt you understand this. In fact have you ever been to Australia or could you tell me 5 things about it! Probably not. Im offended that you have the nerve to critise us coming from a place, that i dont know how you are proud of. How is the US foreign policy, health system, education system, should i stop! Shame on you for throwing rocks.
ohpuhleeease said:
Well spoken Mark. Perhaps you are the Melbourne-residing American who was on talkback radio this morning - the one who was outraged at the moral preaching of her own country...oh wait....it was a female. Anyway, she was embarrassed at the interfering of her former countrymen in her adopted country's peaceful and tolerant society.
Carolom said:
I am an Australian, i switched off straight after that act and it is definitely NOT funny. This might well serve to demonstrate how far Australia has to go in recognsing how offensive this kind of racist parodying is and what is behind the outrage people are expressing.
People outside of Australia might not realise we have not one but three equivalents to the "N" word in this country and we are still not seeing Aboriginal people represented in television, in commericals, on advertising material..it's as if they only exist in the media as criminals, dysfunctional people or drunks.
It is no surprise that one of the judges gave 7 out of 10 for the act to Harry Connicks big zero and the audience booed Red Simons when he gave them the gong to finish.
You can read what the A,B,C of Racism in this country is all about here:
http://carolom.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/nigger-and-the-a-b-c-of-racism-here-in-australia/
You can guarantee my fellow Australians who are justifying this blackfacing, minstrel act have yet to have meaningful relationships with Black people and within that level of relationship, learn about what the historical meaning is behind the mockery and laughter.
bossdeddy said:
carolom, I can justify it as I do have a meaninful relationship with a whole rainbow of enthnicly diverse people, I have friends from aborigonal backgound, black africans, an assortment of asians, middle eastern etc etc etc, at the ned of the day people carry on to much about political correct issues. at the end of the day it is up to each individual to earn the respect of their fellow humans.
chopperblue said:
you can't guarantee that. i am white australian and my cousins are half aboriginal and i found it not one way or the other. actually it was funny because none of them could dance or sing.
hunter67 said:
Carolom, my advice to you is to take your do-gooding comments and move to America, you'd fit in like a glove over there. A sparkly Michael Jackson glove, if it's not racist to say so.
As an Australian, I didn't find myself laughing out loud at the Jackson Jive, but I was also not offended by it. These guys in good humour, made up a silly act 20 years ago as the Jackson 5, for a silly "no talent" segment called Red Faces. They were one of the many past acts/cast members that appeared on the re-union special, so they just repeated the act (albeit with an updated "white" Michael Jackson). How this can be seen as a racist act is bewildering to me when all they were doing was singing and dancing as the Jackson 5. Again, if it was intended to be a "blackfacing, minstrel act" where the hell were the white lips and white gloves? There were none, only one spangled glove just like Michael Jackson used to wear. Had they gone onstage make-up free and wigless and tried to sing and dance in perfect imitation of the Jackson 5, well how ridiculous would that have been on a show like Red Faces!! It was a parody of the Jackson 5 musical group, not of blackfaced minstrels, or black people in general and not racist in anyway. An insult to the musical genius of the Jackson 5? Absolutely. To the African-American race? Absolutely NOT.
Dean said:
I find it sad that an innocent skit trying to be funny is blown up into a racial debarcle.
These men who did the skit are all in the medical profession and have devoted their lives to helping and caring for others regardless of colour or creed.
Those of you who see any type of racial attacks in this skit only fuel racisim, you need to look into your heart and soul and question your own character and beliefs.
This skit was an attempt at some good O'l Aussie piss taking and those of us who took it that way find the idea of a "racist" tag abhorrent.
Get past the hate people learn some humility and look for the good not bad in people.
Kyra Kyles said:
I don't think calling out ignorance and cultural insensitivity fuels racism. Turning the other way and acting like you don't see stupidity does far more to further racism than anything else. Further, I wouldn't say what these men are doing is racist, which is meant to harm and harm others. I think they are clueless. I don't hate them or anyone else, therefore I don't think I'm the intended target of your soul-searching advice. If I saw someone being this clueless about any other race or ethnic group, I'd say something about that too. And you don't have to really look too hard to see the bad of a group of non-black men standing onstage in wild wigs and shoe polish on their faces. Anyone with access to a history book should know better than this behavior.
hunter67 said:
Kyra, are your eyes painted on? Nobody is saying that the act wasn't stupid, that's the whole idea of the segment. The acts are supposed to be stupid, which is why they are funny, at least to many Australians, anyway. These guys impersonated (badly) the Jackson 5, a musical group who just happened to be black. Their wigs and makeup weren't meant to portray blackface singers, they were meant to portray the Jackson 5. This is the same costuming they used 20 years ago when they were medical students who probably couldn't justify or afford a large outlay on proper face makeup or whatever Robert Downey Jr used. This performance was offensive to the brilliant talent of the Jackson 5, but not to their race. It's a "no talent" amateur segment for pete's sake, a little perspective please.
chopperblue said:
dean, thats the best post i've read
bossdeddy said:
I think this has been blown out of proportion, Australia does not see skin colour the same way as Americans, Im not saying that there are no racist in Oz, there are, just like there is in the USA, China, Afric etc, However the difference is in Australia everyone is pretty much just an Aussie, in the USA the perception we get is that the USA is still very much into segregation by adding a persons ethnic background in front of the word American, be it african american, asian american etc etc. It's great to be proud of ones ancestory but the way you guys refer to yourselves show's that yur backward 20-30 years that you need to seperate yourselves from each other. Rather than look for everything & anything that might be politically incorrect why not just look at the skit for what it was, a tribute to Michael Jackson. You are entitled to your opinion and it probably was done in por taste like most Aussie TV is bt before peope get hysterical about racism they need to understand the culture they are critisizing, the majority of true blue aussies dont care about the colour of your skin, what gender you sleep with or any such nonsense, we are just laid back and accept pretty much everyone. To bad the same cant be said for the USA.
deb may said:
Excuse me? Are you saying that here in Australia we don't refer to a person's race? Have you not noticed how often when there is a crime - especially gang-related - the media always makes a point of stating the gang members' ethnic origins? I don't think we are any different to the U.S. here in that way. And some tribute to Michael Jackson! It was an insult to him, his family, and to people who have fought against racial stereotypes everywhere. I feel insulted as an Australian that the Hey Hey team chose this act for Australian viewing pleasure. I think the only thing that I agree with out of your comments is that Aussie TV is mostly in poor taste.
bossdeddy said:
deb now your being silly, if a person commits a crime and their skin colour or etrhnic heratige can be used to identify them then we should use it in the media, in the USA if your not white then they add their thnic background in front of america, eg african american. these terms re used everywhere in the USA, not just the media. You dont see anyone refering to themselves as jewish australian or chinese australian, we are just all australians. To add an ethnic background to your nationality is a form of segregation, usually self imposed and segregation is where racism/intolerance starts.
AustraliaAwesome said:
You are all dead set jokes yourselves. Why are we being labelled racist? Does nobody remember a movie the Wayans brothers did a few years ago where black men dressed up at white people. Why was there no uproar about this? Why was this not considered racist? Because you're all dumb. Stop with the double standards and realise you're all hypocrites.
Simondo said:
Hi I'm an Australian and in no way condone the sketch, but thought you might like to know that we do have a history of minstrel shows in Australia:
http://wl.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26102969-16947,00.html
In the 1800s a number of African-American performers came to Australia, and found so much more tolerance and so much less discrimination than in the US that they stayed here.
Kyra Kyles said:
Hi Simondo:
I am in no way going against Australia as a whole. The actions of a few do not serve to reveal the motives of the many. I am just saying these gentlemen are goofballs. Some agree and some don't. I'm good with that. Thank you for weighing in, and sharing that link.
Oscar said:
Hi Kyles
I think we need to take a loook at our own backyard before we start critisizing a nation for a harmless, albeit thoughtless, skit. Somewhat surprised that a New Orleans native would take such a sanctimonious tone given the events of Hurricane Katrina where our very own Government could be accussed of incredible racial discrimination. Pull your head in Harry!!!
MattsMum said:
Oh, I get it now...white people can only imitate white people, 'brown' people can only imitate 'brown' people but brown people (like some of these guys were) can't imitate 'brown' people. Can anyone imitate black people?
No, I wouldn't want to get in a time machine and join you in 2009 with your gun laws and your health system that fails so many of your people.
I'll stick to living in one of the world's most liveable countries with my 'racist' sense of humour. Go home Harry!
Kyra Kyles said:
Hey there, MattsMum. I don't think that anyone made that point that whites-imitate-whites and blacks-imitate-blacks, etc. And I'd love to know where you are getting that from. Seems to me your comment is more a knee-jerk reaction than a reasoned opposition to the points I make in this post. I loved "Tropic Thunder," and had no problem with a white man portraying a black man there, but the execution was markedly different. Perhaps you don't see that. People do imitate black people all the time, including in one of the greatest scenes of "30 Rock" ever when Alec Baldwin channeled Tracy Morgan. I laughed so hard I fell off of my couch. But in this video we're talking about, I didn't laugh. I cringed. And I know many others who had the same reaction. I have no idea who you are aiming your comments about the health system and gun laws at, as that is not the focus of this blog post. However, if you find this funny, that's your business. I don't, and I am not ashamed to say so. I would be remiss if I didn't speak up when I saw something this clueless. Thanks for the comment, despite our obvious disagreement on this matter.
Lauma84 said:
Do you follow yourself sometimes?Or you have a problem to remember what you actually type? Here it is "Hi Jojo: It doesn't matter to me whether they are not white...the fact is they aren't black" which is what mattsmum was saying.
Carolom said:
Gee bossdeeddy I live and work in the same country as you and am astounded that you can say "everyone is pretty much an Aussie". Makes me wonder how many Aboriginal friends and family you have because you would tell a very different story if you did.
Are you not aware that Aboriginal people were only granted citizenship in 1967 and that today, right this minute Aborigina; elders in remote communities have been placed on income management along with the rest of the Community as a result of the Northern Territory Intervention, which wavered the racial discrimination act in order to be legislated very quickly?
Where are your kids Aboriginal teachers, where are the doctors and the Blacj Australian lawyers and the business people? Why don you very very rarely see an Aboriginal person serving you at the bank or informing the policies that run this country?
Your comments, as sincere as they are are a perfect example of why that kind of segment could be aired last night and every-day Australians can not see why it was so wrong.
(Excuse us Kyra whilst the down-under brigade argue amongst our selves...;-)
Racism is a virus in this country...you can read how it is transmitted here;
http://carolom.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/the-virus/
bossdeddy said:
carolom, I grew up in an area where there were quite a few aborigines, we had to families that were friends of ours, both these families didnt want their kids hanging out with other aborigonal kids because the parents of those kids were drunks and unemployed.In my later years I can into contact with many aborigines, I even had an intimate relationship with one, whatI learnt that most of these full blood aborigines has similar veiws as the white population about their own people. I also worked with afew in different industries, from retail to finance, one I know even imigrated to hungary to marry a white woman. No one is saying that everything to do with aborigines is perfect and the past has been rather dark for them. The thing is that society needs to move on and make a better future.As for the NT intervention, it was needed, for whatever reason aborigonal adults are not caring for their kids, if the gov did nothing or worse still removed those kids we would have another stolen generation argument. Many aborigines have pulled themselves up and become successful influential & respected people in Australian society, from sport stars, tv actors to judges. They are the ones showing that if your aborigonal you can still be successful, they just need to takeadvantage of the services out there and put the effort in. I do feel though that the lifestyle led by aborigines that society doesnt like is mor the issue than the colour of their skin, Aussies would treat white people who are unemployed, alcoholic drug dependant child neglecters the same way as a non white person. The focus should be on getting the aborigonal community to become more accountable or their actions, engage them to help thm improve their lifestyle and provide services for them to acheive this. we shouldnt be stting here debating racism.
Carolom said:
This is a clasic example of how racism works it's way into a persons perception bossdeddy:
your words:
"They are the ones showing that if your aborigonal you can still be successful, they just need to takea dvantage of the services out there and put the effort in. "
" if you are Aboriginal you can STILL be successful??"...like "Even though you are Black there is hope?"...
Gawd...what a long way we have to go...let's take a moment to remember what a pristine, enviromnmentally sound, healthy societal system was in place prior to 1788 and look at the mess the successful colonisers have created for a once balanced and harmonious nation bosdeddy.
Lauma84 said:
Why?Why?Why?
They dont wanna go and study and become SOMETHING. Their major interest is get drunk and high,pass out somewhere in the middle of the street or just simply looking for fights.They get everything they need from goverment,no matter what-housing,cars,free education etc etc.They get payed to go to school,but they simply dont. If you dont know anything about Aboriginals here,dont bother to open your mouth. In fact I am Latvian,moved to OZ a bit than a year ago ,and it took me just over few months to see the reality.They are allowed to call us white dogs or "c" words,whie pricks etc,and its acceptable,but we cant say blacks or anything that way.
And btw did u hear about the story when few years back one aboriginal kid killed white father with a cricket batt on christmas dayin front of his family,cuz he asked him to stop stealing alcohol from his esky.And he got only 5 years but he can get out in 3,Oh yeah he probably is out already bashing others.If some white bloke would do that he would get life sentence.
rohanm said:
Launma, people study to get a job...with this kind of attitude...i dont think people will allow anyone different to get a job...it might go as far as the interview stage..and NO further...I am talking from experience...
Lauma84 said:
thats not true. it is possible for a job to be advertised with aboriginal only apply. but it is illegal to advertise for white only. also alot of bigger companies, especially mining companies are require to have a certain percentage of aboriginals on their books. my fiance has seen first had with some aboriginals at the mine he works. they dissapear and keep getting paid for over 6 months. he doesnt turn up for 1 day without calling in and he would be fired immidiatley. this is racism as it discriminates againts to types of people.
We live in a small town in WA where 30% of population are aboriginals.Believe me or not but I see them every day,most drunk or just walking around the town.Their kids are walking withthem or on their own,at scool times!!!!!!!!!!!! Where they should be as school learning.But they dont bother going there.The ones who study are working,come to Geraldton,WA and see we have aboriginals who serve u at the bank or any other places. But not many simply cause they dont want to.Why work if goverment will support them???????
rohanm said:
Lauma,
what about in the cities? ...perhaps the mining companies are desperate thats why they choose..typically in places in wa it is difficult to get anyone to move there and there is a big labour shortage...
Carolom said:
Shame on you Lauma. I can tell you plenty of stories of violent, drunken white people who do these same things and your post says a great deal about you and no one else.
However you have demonstrated exactly the kind of racist under currents and overt overtones that exists in Australia that other Australians in this forum are denying.
ruddiga said:
Great piece of Journalism here Kyles. Did you have to study for that degree? I'm Australian, and I can tell you, we haven't fought a civil war based on slavery and race. Australia is detached from your plights because of simple geography. We really are down under, and like it this way. Most of your social underlying problems lie inherently with your ancestory, like it or not, that is a fact. Also, what of Al Jolson? A Jewish American who black faced? So impressed of African American Jazz, which he heard in the back alley's of New Orleans (which is named after a French Duke) that he had to emulate it. He was also the US's first entertanier to entertain your troops in WWII overseas. You say that whites can't blackface but blacks can whiteface because historically it has never been done? I can't wait until your President ways in on this. Will he invite us over for beer in his backyard? Some of my closest friends are black and I call them racist names all the time in excellent humor and vice versa. This may seem odd to you, but this is how Australia is. We are more racist to Middle East culture's than we are to blacks by a long shot... and so are you. Blacks are in the Ghan and Iraq right now killing Arab's. Don't play the race card sweetheart, you might get paid to blog or whatever, but this is seriously a non-issue. Your editor needs his arse or 'ass' kicked and you need to get over the colour of your skin.
Kyra Kyles said:
Hi Ruddiga:
Perhaps you are of the mistaken belief that I am insulting Australia. That couldn't be further from the truth. What I am doing is insulting a group of clueless buffoons who happen to have committed their buffoonery in Australia. We live in an increasingly global civilization, so I'm going to have to assume that Australians are not completely ignorant of how this could be taken as offensive. In fact, some Australians have posted information showing that there was blackface in that country. I didn't say that anyone should be "facing" anyone, but I am tired of people using two damn movies "Norbit" and "Whitechicks" as an excuse for other people's idiotic actions. And you're right, calling people racist names is odd to me. That's why I don't do it. That's your business, but if you get up on a variety show and do it, and I see it...then it becomes mine and I am free to comment on it. I am not making this an America v Australia battle, as I have never had the pleasure of visiting your fair country. I am making this a battle of stupidity vs common sense, and the stupidity is in the video attached to this blog. I don't need to play the race card, but I do have the right to call out cultural stupidity when and if I see it. And I'm lucky enough to have an editor who has no problem with me doing that. Thanks for the comment.
hunter67 said:
"..but I am tired of people using two damn movies "Norbit" and "Whitechicks" as an excuse for other people's idiotic actions."
Just like you are using one harmless NON-RACIST skit to accuse those boys, the show's host, producers, etc. of being racist and clueless, to name others.
Phelpsy said:
You see Kyra, you are making the valid point that you are not criticising Australia - just a couple of men who did something who happened to be Australian --- well the same applies re: the Stupid Men you question were not making fun of Black people - just some performers who happened to be black.
rohanm said:
so you are saying being racist to middle east culture is ok? what kind of BS is that? Perhaps you are more racist to ME culture because they fight back and kick your ass..
Carolom said:
Ruddiga read the book "Blood on the Wattle" the history of the massacres of Aboriginal people in Australia. That will teach you something that our anglo-created education system ommitted from your education.
BloodyHell said:
Amazing how people twist words and events. There was nothing wrong with the segment except for a chap called Harry.
If you want things to be 'PC' then Hey Hey is not for you. Never has been. I guess you would label the kid from last weeks show a racist because he started to cover himself with world's best spread, Vegemite (for those playing at home, the spread is black).
America really needs to come of age (though going by the news reports out of America it has a long way to go).
Besides, to understand the Red Face's segment you would need to watch a few shows to see that people make fools of themselves or other segments of society, so there was nothing exactly special about jackson jive segment.
Hopefully Hey Hey will return in some format. Was a great show at the time and the reunion has shown that they are still top of their game. It's what Australia has been missing for the past 10 years (and perhaps the world).
oh and I don't know why they had Harry on, as I never did like his performances on Hey Hey (I always treated his performances as an ad break) - KISS may have been great alternative, but I guess there may have been a an up roar with them wearing make up and all.
justndorse said:
Hi Kylie,
My opinion is you probably haven't received all the facts throughout your research so I won't be too critical of your views.
Two things I want to say is a) it was a reunion comeback series of a show that Australians all watched each Saturday night and, yes, it was from a time when things like the Jackson Jive were funny but the risk of the Reunion is that it may delve into some of its older humour and I personally thought it wasn't that bad.
b) It is a fact that Americans are over the top in everything they do whether it be eating, losing weight, reactions to Australians doing harmless Michael Jackson tributes, American Idol etc. etc. but how is an Indian man dressing up as an African-American offensive let alone racist?
Kyra Kyles said:
Justndorse: I don't really know how I can explain this to you if you saw the video and do not understand. A non-black painting himself boot-black (when the Jacksons are actually kind of brown) and then dancing around like a fool would pretty much be the definition of "offensive" to some. I understand we all see things differently, so I do not fault you for your thoughts. But again, this is not a war between Australia and America. This incident happened in Australia and that is beyond my control. If it happened here, I'd write the same post, except the name America would appear in the text. Please do not take this as some indictment against an entire country. I simply think this video is in poor taste and is very culturally insensitive. I do not necessarily find these men racist because that would imply they were intentionally being cruel. Thanks for weighing in.
Phelpsy said:
and please don't take this performance as an indictment on all black.brown people - just the Jackson five......
you get it yet?? You make one agruement against not portraying Australians in a bad light based on the performers being Austrailia - yet you argue against this same arguement by saying portraying the jackson 5 by wearing black make up is having a go at all black people in general??
BloodyHell said:
Oh also... Dr Deva had this to say "Two of us come from India and one of us comes from Lebanon so we can't afford to be racist to be honest"
Reference: http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,28383,26181031-10229,00.html
Kyra Kyles said:
Oh, please...They could afford to be misguided and stupid though, as evident in their tacky get-ups and that awful name they came up with. I don't think they are racist, but certainly in need of some education.
Lauma84 said:
they probably were stupid but far from racists....
hunter67 said:
Perhaps they felt unable to use the Jackson 5 name as there were actually 6 of them, plus a slight twist to an artist's name is quite common in parody or even tribute routines. The word Jive was probably chosen because it rhymed with 5 and is a dance than for any other reason.
rohanm said:
they might have come from india and lebanon..but who is the choreographer and designer? the indians and lebanese are probably temp workers...
the fact that most of the country thinks.."it is a joke" is the real "joke" - read the comments at the end...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/world-covers-hey-hey-its-saturdays-red-face-over-blackface-jackson-jive-skit/story-e6frf96f-1225784091474
aussie said:
rohanm
"the indians and lebanese are probably temp workers..."
Nope that's the sad part. These guys are all doctors. Yep well educated fools. They were Medical students when they performed it 20 years ago. They are all doctors now.
and just because the dim wits who post comments to the Herald Sun see it as a joke does not mean all Australians see it that way.
ruddiga said:
Sorry me again. Kyles, you might want to have a look at this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooKaCbMvaZ0
Do you have an excuse for this one aswell?
Kyra Kyles said:
Ruddiga: Do I need an excuse, or does Harry Connick Jr.? What does this have to do with me? But I will post this on my blog, so that others can judge for themselves whether Connick is a hypocrite. I would say this performance is more along the lines of Robert Downey Jr. in "Tropic Thunder," which I do not find offensive or Fred Armisen playing Obama. Where is Harry's shoe polish, torn-up fro wig and crazy dancing? I don't see it, but again, you are entitled to your opinion. Come back later and see that I have no problem putting this vid up.
Phelpsy said:
The reason there were Afro wigs was because the Jacksons in the 70's had Afros - big ones... and the reason there was dancing was.... the Jacksons did dancing routines..... and the reason they wore black make -........ is because the Jacksons are Black......
deb may said:
I am Australian (and usually proud to say that). I sat there in disbelief when the 'Jackson Jive' act walked out on stage. How embarrassing that so many posts on various blogs seem to think that this is the way we think as a country. It would have been bad enough 20 years ago when they first performed, but of all the past acts to allow back on the show why on earth would they choose this one? And how embarrassing that an American guest judge had to point out to the show's host how completely racist that act was. I felt as if he was lecturing all Australians. I felt like yelling into the TV 'That's not what we all think! Honestly! We're not all like that!!' I don't think that the majority of Australians think 'blackface' is at all acceptable. I find it hard to believe that the group of well educated doctors who made up the Jackson Jive could think it was. I'm amused that they, and many people posting comments seem to think they should be exempt from the accusation of racism simply because they are of Lebanese and Indian origin. If anything, I would have thought that would have made them more sensitive to portraying other racial groups in such a disrespectful and stereotypical manner.
justndorse said:
I suppose. Let's just all accept it was wrong and move forward with these views in mind, have a beer and watch the footy.
Ads said:
No, we should deport those racist bastards.
Dean said:
Kyra,
In now way am I condoning their wee skit nor am I condeming it, Im baffled as to why people did not see it for what it was, but took the negitive from it rather then letting their foolishness skim over the top.
Ignorance and cultural insensitivity may not fuel racism, dwelling on the past does and will do for eternity. Untill people can forgive and look at themselfs as the same then this cycle will continue.
Look deep inside and pin point your motives as to why the skit so offends..
Im pretty sure those guys who did the skit are in disbelief today and are sorry they tried to be funny, but seemingly only managed to ignite past pain from the depths of some people.
Ignorance is no defence but standing on the side lines waiting to pounce on the ignorant or the gluesless in my mind is the spark that creates the fire.
On a positive note did you see the Vegimite kid on the show last week? Its all ment to be takin lightly, but as you say History keeps bearing its ugly head, Its a shame it does not stay in the books so past pain can be healed to 100%
DinoD said:
I'm an aussie and I'm confused by your outrage.
As I understand, "blackfacing" (a term I'd never heard of until last night) is offensive to african americans because its a reminder of a past where they were discriminated against in the theatre....or maybe not. You don't actually state why you're offended.
But here in Australia we don't have a history of discrimination in entertainment. The context of your outrage is only significant in the US, UK and other countries (such as Cuba) who have a history of the oppression of african americans, for good reason. In the Australian context, where we have no history of large scale african immigration and slavery, we aren't culturally bound by the same history and therefore the same rules. Sure we have a rotten history of discrimination against aborgines and pacific islanders, and if white performers dressed up as aborigines with black makeup and ham-handedly played the didgeridoo, it would never get to air. In fact, if it did the studio would probably be burnt down. Thats our cultural context and you really dont seem to want to respect it.
New immingrants to Australia are sometimes given the following advice: leave your cultural and emotional baggage at the door, and respect the diversity of views, opinions, religions and beliefs of the people who live here, including the view that a skit thats offensive in one culture may be regarded as inoffensive entertainment in another. I'm not sure you'd succeed on either count, not that it appears you'd ever want to come down under now.
Kyra Kyles said:
Well, the fact is that we now live in YouTube world where info is readily available to everyone across the globe with Internet access. If this show/sketch is so accepted in Australia, why are other "Aussies" saying they didn't like the video either? I am not criticizing Australia as a whole any more than criticizing the racist actions of an American entertainer(s) is criticizing America as a whole. I hope people are understanding that. Also, I'd love to come to Australia, DinoD and I wouldn't come there expecting everything to be as it is here. One skit hasn't changed my mind about that.
rohanm said:
DinoD...
the advice given to new immmigrants seem a little strange considering the race bashing going on in melbourne and the riots that happened in Sydney..
as usual you are blaming the immigrants..other examples - sol truijoo and clive palmer's comments
Chief82 said:
Roham, You are completely devoid of any real facts.
Fact 1. International students were targeted for crimes because they were seen ad "easy targets" not for racist reasons. White people get robbed every day but it only makes the news when an International student is robbed and bashed, its called selective reporting
Fact 2, the so called riots were carried out by Middle Easterners retalliating to a mass demonstration about violence against life guards at Cronulla Beach, Again selective reporting.
Fact 3, Sol Trojio ran Australias biggest telecommunicationc scompany into the ground, and did not work with the regulators and sprouted off anti Austrialian crap at the politicians at every opportunity, so i believe he has no credibility left.
Clive Palmers coments, well i am not aware of them, all i know he has a racist Only hire Aboriginal Aprentice scheme happening.
rohanm said:
Chiefe82:
statistics and facts can be twisted any way to potray what you want..
Response to FACT1: international students were not targeted; indians were targeted. No, they werent all students, some were workers catching the train to go home. It was NOT just one student who got bashed..it even happened recently..by the way are you saying if it is an easy target..thats a good enough reason..i wonder perhaps you think rape is justified?
Response to fact2: the beginnings of the riot incident might have been the demonstration but are you saying that was all to it...i am seeing some selective reporting from you now..?
fact3: telstra has been performing poorly for ages and nothing to do with Sol...
maybe Aboriginal only policy will work in a racist country so that people can get jobs..from what i heard it is not that easy minorities to get jobs in any mainstream cities...
Keryn said:
Hi Kyra. I'm a journalist at the ABC in Australia. We would really like to do an interview on our radio program. How can I get in touch with you? My number is Australia is +61 8 9220 2736. Keryn Bradbury
justndorse said:
Ohhh Keryn Bradbury from the ABC? Yeah nah I read your articles...
Kyra Kyles said:
Hi Keryn. Sure, I have no problem talking. I'll send you a message.
Carolom said:
Deb sadly the comments in the on line newspapers today suggest that a large number of Australians see nothing wrong what so ever with the boot-polish parody and the comments here by our fellow Aussies demonstrate how far we still have to go before people understand the history of villification through 'satire' and the counter productive role of perpetuating racist stereotypes.
At least this event has brought to the world stage Australia's divisive undercurrents.
Chief82 said:
It has only brougt to the worlds attention that Australia is different to America. Most Australians didn't see a problem with the skit because no one saw race and sees race as a problem. I have said in a number of times, Race is not a major problem in Australia, skin colouor doesn't hold people back, It is only a blight on America cause there are so many racist people around telling everyone they are not racist that their true racism shines through. True non racists don't see skin colour as a problem and don't give it a second thought.
The only one who saw skin colour as a problem was an American, guess it tells you something.
Brian Moore said:
That is the most ridiculous, unwatchable thing I've seen since Hollywood tried to pass off Anthony Hopkins as a black guy.
Simon said:
Hi Kyra,
While the act was in poor taste, to label it as racist is going too far in my opinion. Who in their right mind would go on national television and INTENTIONALLY look to denigrate any race of people?
Every country on the planet contains a racist element and Australia is no different (I know you are not calling Australia racist). If incidents like this were anywhere near the worst cases of racism, the world would be a much better place.
Kyra Kyles said:
I have said repeatedly that this is clueless, not necessarily racist. And I have no beef with with Australia. This is just where this foolishness happened.
BloodyHell said:
Racist Harry found out;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooKaCbMvaZ0
Get over it said:
This was a reunion show ,one of 2 specials ,The Guys performing were reprising their skit from 20 years same as some of the acts from the last two shows,If your going to blame someone blame the producers for contacting these guys asking them to come back; why did they ask them back as a tribute to MJ thats all (nothing sinister or racist about it ).
Thinking if Harry wasn't a judge would this be even spoken about here, Ok its a joke maybe went to far
But without seeing the whole two shows and putting it into perspective please dont call us a racist nation just because of a 30 secs skit
Kyra Kyles said:
I am not calling Australia anything. These people just happen to be from Australia. I am calling them stupid. I have no beef with my Aussies and would, contrary to one commenter's opinion, be willing to visit as soon as I get enough vacation time to do so.
Carolom said:
I'l put the kettle on!
Get over it said:
Kyra , you hit the nail on the head .There stupid im listening to the radio right now and one of the guys just stated " they were reprising their role from 20 years ago and with the death of MJ they thought why not , They didnt at the time think anything more of than just taking part in an Australian TV show and if they won like they did 20 years ago they would give the Money to charity"
Surely Harry would of known these guys were going to be on?.If not again shame on the producers,in my opinion the guys yes are stupid but you cant just blame them , Im waiting for the producers of the show to make an apperance
bossdeddy said:
Kyra,
your more than welcome to bunk down with my partner & me.
Lauma84 said:
Oh my god,there are so many stupid people out there,why not talk about all of them hey?
Carolom said:
Simon ingrained racism operates at the level where people think it is OK, just a bit of fun and that OTHERS have the problem with sensitivity and excessive p.c. so it is not surprising that people could put boot-polish on and appear on national television in the black and white minstrel format and be in complete ignorance of the origin of that kind of 'playful' ridicule and why there is no place for it in the modern world.
You are anglo right Simon? If you were Black you would have a very different EXPERIENCE of 'humour' that sets you up as ridiculous and infantile. Tell me you are Aboriginal or African American and I will apologise for my assumptions.
Lauma84 said:
Do you laugh when a black comic makes jokes about white people.? I am sure you do. so maybe if you where white your have a different sense of humor as you suggest. so as you suggest then only black people can make fun of black people and only black people can laugh at it. and then the case also should be only whites can make fun of whites and only whites can laugh, and same goes for mexican asian middle eastern etc.... humor is humor. get over it.
Kyra Kyles said:
I laugh if comics are funny. And if they cross the line whether they insult whites, blacks, women or anything else, I stop laughing. It's pretty simple. I don't even follow the rest of your logic and challenge you to re-read the post because it's pretty clear you didn't understand anything I wrote. If you think a 100-year tradition of putting black color on your face and mocking an entire race of people by capering around like an animal or pretending to be stupid is funny, then laugh away. That's your choice. And I don't have to get over anything.
hunter67 said:
What would your heritage be Carolom, since you're asking others to share.
Carolom said:
This link will tell you about my heritage and how I was struck by the virus of racism in this land of equal opportunity..so long as you aren't Aboriginal:
http://carolom.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/the-virus/
ruddiga said:
Hey Kyles.
Nice retort, very cool. The HCJ video proves that he himself is capable of a good parody, so why is he to judge? He made a complete wanker of himself last night and was totally out of line. If Amercian's want to label us racist, then fine, but do it on the basis of the brain dead unemplyed waste on Sydney beaches that rioted on Cronulla in 2005, a TOTAL AND COMPLETE stain on Australia's short history. Now that, was and is, a complete disgrace. Yet this seems to have more weight because HCJ has weighed in on it. And seriously, your labelling the cast and the skit members bufoons, fine, but I laughed at the skit and thought it was great. This makes me a bufoon in your eyes? I am an intelligent man and saw this for what it was. A good old laugh. America should be ashamed for giving the world Britney Spears. SURELY we both agree on that??? ;)
ohpuhleeease said:
Agree ruddiga. Now the Cronulla riots WERE racist - as are the ongoing attacks on our Indian citizens - simply for their colour. A disgrace, and unacceptable, and something that IS worthy of some good serious jail time for the perps.
LOL at your comment on Britney!!
Dinkum said:
Regardless of whether Harry Connick Jr has appeared as a 'black man' or any other mentions of similar issues with Robert Downey Jr and Anthony Hopkins, the context of this skit needs to be remembered. It offended people, so that's the main issue here. However, that does not mean Australians are all racist, as many sites are implying today. Since when does a 'revival skit' on a TV show reflect on the 20 million other people of a nation? And no, Australia didn't endorse it- the TV network did. The issue is that they revived live TV skits and what should have remained in the past didn't.
I am a proud Australian, and a stupid skit on television doesn't change that. s a nation we are not responsible for, nor should be held accountable for the actions of a few idiots. We are a highly multicultural society in which racism is not tolerated, and I am certain that due to the reactions to this skit, the show itself will not be returning to TV. In a year dotted with bad TV choices, this is just another 'mistake' for which those working in TV will pay dearly (for those of you interested, a huge furore was raised over The Chaser's Make a Realistic Wish skit).
To say that this skit means that all Australians are racist is ludicrous- it is akin to saying all Americans men cheat on their wives and joke about it, because David Letterman appeard to do the same (and offended many viewers), or that the existence of the KKK in America reflects majority social views. This is simply not true, nor will ever be. It was a TV skit, not a social policy.
Kyra Kyles said:
I agree with everything you said, Dinkum. Thanks for adding clarity to this debate.
Kizz302 said:
Yes, the context of the script has to be remembered, but also the culture of the viewing audience does too. You painted an accurate picture of Australian culture re being a multicultural society and REAL racism is not tolerated, Kyra agrees with you even though I doubt she's an expert on Australia given her comments.
If they choose to do further Hey Hey specials in the future, it will not have repercussions ala The Chasers as it did not offend the Aussie public in the same way.
Connick in my view (and everyone I have spoke too about this) was overly sensitive, and anyone who understands the Australian culture will agree.
Why should Australia have to comply with another countries overly protective PC?
I find it insulting that the likes of Kyra think Australia is in the dark ages when it comes to racism actually, it's this sort of ill informed comment that perpetuates the though that USA think they are the best at everything.
Who am I to have a qualified comment? I'm married to a Chinese Malaysian, have Indian and Singaporian friends, call everyone I meet 'Mate' regardless of race/colour, despise Pauline Hanson and her ideals (as do most Aussies)
and lastly, I was a 'pommy' who arrived in Australia in the early 70's and was at the receiving end of racist comments from WHITE Aussies! Australia is a VERY different place nowadays.
Carolom said:
Ruddiga to use the term Australia's short history" is a perfect example of how you have been trained to view this country as only existing since 1788 when in fact it is a very, very old country- a Black country - with social systems, complex cultural practices and ecological, environmental relationships gong back thousands of years also.
As soon as you make a statement like that it shows how you have been taught to see this country in the context of white settlement which is the very reason we have such a huge division between what Australia really is all about, how it has been changed since European's moved in and took over and what the underlying issues are as a result.
Thanks Ruddiga for demonstrating so clearly how people really think of Australia as young... and free...when it is in fact ancient and in the midst of intergenerational trauma and social problems that have no room for boot-polish and mockery in the name of entertainment.
Whilst you laughed at the skit many of us sat in dismay that this kind of juvenile behaviour can still be seen as okay in a country that is still reeling from the treatment of the original Black inhabitants.
DinoD said:
Oh, and @ Carolom..
"Are you not aware that Aboriginal people were only granted citizenship in 1967 and that today, right this minute Aborigina; elders in remote communities have been placed on income management along with the rest of the Community as a result of the Northern Territory Intervention, which wavered the racial discrimination act in order to be legislated very quickly?
Where are your kids Aboriginal teachers, where are the doctors and the Blacj Australian lawyers and the business people? Why don you very very rarely see an Aboriginal person serving you at the bank or informing the policies that run this country?"
Any chance you could remember exactly WHY elders have been placed on "Income Management"?
And as for aboriginal teachers, lawyers etc, did it ever occur to you that perhaps the reason theyre underrepresented in those professions is because they have no interest in pursuing careers in a bank or some office, despite incentives such as Abstudy? Perhaps theyre more comfortable with being park rangers, mechanics or artists? What do you want to do, FORCE them into jobs they don't want?
I'm glad your views aren't shared by the majority of Australians, as your ignorance isn't pretty. Down here we like to think we have an aussie trait called a "bullshit detector" and frankly mine is pinging away furiously at this blog, and with your comments.
Kyra Kyles said:
If only the "dumb-ass" detector had gone off when those fools stepped onto the stage wearing shoe polish and frayed afro wigs...that would have saved me some typing time. I am against being overly sensitive, but the opposite is no better. I will not comment on Aboriginal issues, as that is an area that I am not an expert in and I can see your comments are not directed at me with respect to that. However, I am very familiar with blackface and it is very insulting and has no place in today's society.
sterls said:
i sorry but this may have been said before but the Waylan brothers, Robert Downey Jr and Eddie Murphy r no different to those Aussie's they all dress up as other races but they get pay big money to do so, they get all the special effects to help them look like that, these fellow Aussie's were doing a home made act hints the poor make-up so i think Americans are just taking it to far to begin with if you can do it in movies why cant we do it on tv.
BN said:
Your "Dumb-ass" detector should have before writing an article without all the facts.
Chief82 said:
You should clarify your remarks in saying "Blackface: has no place in todays AMERICAN society. Believe it or not Ausralia is a totally different country with different culture.
hunter67 said:
IT WASN'T A BLACKFACE ROUTINE, IT WAS THE JACKSON 5, FOR @#$%'s SAKE!!!
rohanm said:
DinoD....
just studying will not automatically get you a job..you would need to go through the interview process...and there is an automatic elimination...
so this could another reason that they are underrepresented as teachers and lawyers...
Chief82 said:
Do you also realise your Northern Territory Intervention has made these Aboriginal communities safer for the Children withou drunken parents drinking all the families welfare payments and kids being raped by uncles. This Aboriginal paradise you think of prior to the intervention had Aboriginal men and women drink at 10am, and had the Australian Austhorities too scared to take a 10 year old girl off their parents even though she had been prooven to be raped no less than 5 times. Hmm, That intervention is soo evil.
Jim Buzan said:
The Intervention occured because Aboriginal communities were out of control with 10 yr old girls being traded for sex, alcoholism and petrol sniffing rife, family violence out of control with women being killed, unemployment and lack of education significant issues.
Australian Aboriginals deserve the same opportunities as the rest of us but given their base line, they need a hand. This intervention is being conducted in conjunction with the local indigenous communities.
Having said this - there are many successful Aboriginals in political and business circles which would hardly be achievable in a racist country.
Carolom said:
My pattern-detector tells me you have not sat with any of these Elders Dino and are basing your claims on the things you have read in the papers about an Intervention that was hurried into place just before the last election. When income management is also put into the high-risk non-Aboriginal specific suburbs for EVERYone that lives there, regardless of age or identified behaviors, where child abuse and social issues are rife, I will withdraw my assertion that the Intervention was a racially motivated act.
You might like to do some research about what the United Nations is saying about Australia's race relations and illegal policies in place Dino.
I work with Black Australians from nay different backgrounds and whilst you are right, many wouldn't want to enter into these type of jobs referred to and would prefer to work in their Communities, there are plenty of people who would but find that doors are closed from renting properties to working in retail because they are Aboriginal and for no other reason. To deny this is true demonstrates your lack of relationship with those who are living these stories everyday.
ruddiga said:
Thanks for the History lesson Carolom, it's more like 40,000 years since Aborigines have been here, and we still don't know how. As for how far back we can take this debate, well that's as immeasurable as time itself. As for your litte speel, are you serious? Do we need to look at how you STILL treat the blacks? They were still segregated only 45 years ago you idiot. You've effectively wiped out the American Indians and fought a civil war over slavery? Hurriance Catrina showed black corpses all over the world rotting in the streets and your National Guard murdered black looters just trying to survive. Come on, don't make this easy for me please. And yes, Australia does have a young history as we were only colonised two hundred and fifty odd years ago, so what? At least those who came here, convicts or not, were not social dregs from Ireland, Italy, UK, Germany etc etc. If anything, America can been seen as the perfect example of a complete misery of an inter-racial country. How many other countries have used nuclear weapons in a war?? And as for our social problems? Your murder rates are amongst the highest in the world as is your drug use. Every week there is another massacre at a high school. I laughed, yes I did, because down here we don't have the misery of your social problems therefore we can take things in good humor.
Get over it said:
Why is this turning out to be a history Lesson?, Its about something that happend on TV, Everyone is blaming this or that if you have to blame someone blame the TV producers
As was said o Radio 20 mins ago the guys were asked to reprise their role from 20 years ago( which they won ) and if they won the Money was going to charity , ok they stuffed up big time hurt a lot of people and no are feeling really bad for something they were asked to do.It really is a no win situation for anybody here expect the media and the producers of the show , who are still yet to make an official response and Carolom ill have tea please and a tim tam if you have it :)
Carolom said:
I am Australian ruddiga living in the same country as you .
Jim Buzan said:
Didn't an ignorant US journalist recently label our Prime Minister a "serial killer" because of her ill-conceived perceptions of a feral camel cull in central Australia? Where was the outrage on that across the US or is the US media selective in what it feigns outrage over.
Ms Kyles - you miss a significant point. Anand Deva played Michael Jackson in the skit - and that's not an Aussie name. It's a name more from the sub-continent (India, Asia for the uninformed)
So are you Americans all going to throw your hands in the air because a non-white person portrayed a white person on television - or are you going to be self-selective and look at the portrayal of black people.
That is how stupid this debate and this reaction has become.
The US have the worst violence culture in the western world and yet everyone screams morality when Janet Jackson flashes on tv.
Ms Kyles - as an Australian, I do not want to join the US in 2009. As a nation, you have a strange US centric perception of the world with one in five US senators holding a passport as an example.
Your right to bear arms sees your children dying in schools, families in their homes, and people on the streets. The US is a country of haves and have nots - with many homeless in all towns and cities. You are a nation controlled by corporations and the almighty dollar. Your battle over health-care is amazing - at least everyone in Australia (regardless of social status, financial status, race, religion or colour) has access to medical care. As a nation, you ignored 5 yr old reports on a Category 5 hurricane in New Orleans and in the rebuild you still have people homeless over 4 yrs later.
Your nation's ignorance, arrogance and culture of violence exceeds a comedy act on Australian Tv - and for that acceptance of violence which is exported across the world - the entire US needs a gut punch.
When you have vacation time and come to Australia, drop me a line. You'll see a country where political correctness is the basis for humour and racism is non-existent. And we know how to live without therapists.
Kyra Kyles said:
Jim:
I can scarcely respond to you because I am not writing on behalf of America. I am writing on behalf of Kyra Kyles. I do not think this sketch makes Australians look bad. It makes the idiots who performed in blackface look bad. Thanks to all those who are pointing out America's frailties. I take no offense at that because I am able to recognize when something in my country is going wrong. I am not saying your sketch reflects a country filled with ignorance, but some of these postings are showing we still have a long way to go. Stop being defensive about something that you did not do. Simply look at the video, realize it could be offensive and decide whether you care or not. I did all of the above, decided I did. That is why I wrote this...not to pick a fight with people in a country I have never gotten the opportunity to visit.
BN said:
Well stop making ill informed blogs without all the facts. Even though you say it wasn't, it was a thinly vailed generalization that all austratialans are racist. As for"cluless fools" for that you just have to look in the mirror to see one. So keep back pedaling and then, maybe then, you will be able to remove your foot from your mouth.
lyndon said:
Too true BN...
a) the people doing the poorly-choreographed skit weren't having a dig at black people
b) the author's post did seem to assert that we Aussie's are a racist lot
c) race is really not an issue in Australia and you really simply need to pay a visit to see that this is the case (c'mon y'all - we love those tourist dollars!)
d) and I mean D) This whole hullabaloo seems to be commentators with historical and persisting race relation problems projecting their own failings on others.
I like the Americans I've met in my travels. My best friend married one and lives in NYC. We share so many values and social norms - come visit :)
Move here! I think you'd like it.
I know its been said time and time again over the past 24 hours on this thread and many others, but to take offence at this lame skit and somehow paint our country as a hotbed of racial discrimination is ridiculously stupid, laughably offensive and woefully ignorant.
Hop on a plane y'all and come see for yourselves.
I love being an Australian.
lyndon said:
Crikey - just realised that the Seppo's are going to figure out we've got electricity and the interweb down here...
Dean said:
The truth is something the yanks like to hide, Maybe they all need a "Donkey punch"
Carolom said:
Jim whilst you are showing Kyra your version of Australia, I'll invite you both to some of my Aboriginal friends homes and you can hear their stories of how everyday racism impacts their life...from taxi drivers driving away when they see my Black friend and her family, to kids who are called b**ng and *abo in the school yard.
When we go to restaurants almost every time without fail the waiting staff approach ME because of y white face not one of my black friends treating them as if they have no voice or are unapproachable. It has got to the point where we laugh at this programed racism as it is so predictable.
Not sure which Austarlia you are living in Jim but it sounds like the privileged white version that is a very long way from many of my friends and extended families every day reality.
Charlotte said:
Not sure which Australia you live in Carolom - clearly you live where there is not to many aboroginal's. You want to know why they drove off on your friend and her family is because he was probably scared of the way that he would be treated. Also I know plenty of aboroginal people these kids in the school yard have probably grown up with each other- plenty of the guys at the pub call each other bong and abo and it doesn't matterif a 'white' said it to a 'black' or a 'black' to a 'black' Also I would think if you went with the same friend that had the taxi drive off on her family they woudl address you as this is how you are taught in the hospitality world
Carolom said:
Charlotte you are a very spiteful woman making an assumption that a very decent well dressed Aboriginal grandmother and her three Grandchildren would treat a taxi driver in a threatening manner.
Shame on you for your racist assumptions and justifying your ignorance with 'this is how they are taught in the hospitaility world".
no wonder we still have so far to go with race relations in Australia with people ike you making insulting statements like that.
Jasonaus said:
Hi Kyra,
As an Australian I have been reading through this blog watching the reactions of many people to a very little incident that lasted a few minutes on a TV show that is based around what we call here in Australia "taking the piss out of each other".
Hey Hey its Saturday, unlike a lot of TV shows is all about having fun. It is a refreshing change to the crap (both Australian and American)TV where people poke fun at others because they cant poke fun at themselves.
I may suggest that you may wish to take the time to actually understand our culture a little more before you decide to judge us. Now before you hit the reply button in haste to say you are "not judging Australians as a whole" I ask you this question. If Harry was not on the program last night do you really believe you would be talking about it?
I read through the blog and notice a trend that you are basing this incident on your beliefs as an American. How about researching our culture a little more and understand the fact that this was an "act" a little "ditty" as we call it based on a skit that was done 20 odd years ago and the idea was to show that they were students when they first appeared and now they are all doctors (of many different racial backgrounds too). As a journalist you should know that its important to look at an incident from both sides, rather than one, otherwise your just another "shock jock" looking for reaction.
Until today I did not know the term "black face" and can honestly say the only "tension" I felt was the fact that Michael Jackson's death was still a little "raw" and felt it slightly poor taste. At no time did I feel it was a racist act.
Krya, shows like Saturday Night Live, Conan, Jay Leno etc have poked fun at Australian culture for many years. They make fun of our country, our accents, make fun of Steve Irwin (just after his death) but did we get upset about it? No. Because we understand that humor is humor and we are not that sensitive. Unlike America, we may feel the tension of racism, but we still know how to laugh.
Your blog comments are very much based on American beliefs rather than looking at the bigger picture. It was humor and not racist. I should know, my colour is the same as yours.
Jason.
Kyra Kyles said:
Jason:
I don't know where you see an attack on Australia that I put on this blog. Now, I cannot speak for anyone else. And please understand I didn't board a flight and visit your country to see this. It is out there on the Web for all to see. Surely, you do not expect people in a country like America steeped in this ridiculous and, yes, insulting tradition to look the other way if they see a performance like Jackson Jive. I am not judging a country...simply a sketch, which I deem offensive. I do not give a damn about Harry Connick Jr. And yes, even if he had never been on the show, I would still say something if I saw this video. I admit that maybe it ended up going viral because he objected to the show, but by no means do I base my stance on that of some lounge singer whose music I do not buy. I do not like the skit and though we may share the same "colour," we do not share the same opinion. I am not acting as if I speak for all blacks, but I certainly would not be surprised if other blacks were offended by the costumes and actions of these performers. Thank you for weighing in with some unique perspective on this issue. Now, I am going to hit "reply."
BloodyHell said:
very well put.
Aus82 said:
The way I see it, Austrailans are not racist at all, I certainly didn't see the skit as 'white guys dressed up as black guys', I saw it as a group of Aussie guys imitating celebrities, and whats wrong with that? Black/white who cares? Would I have been offended if it were a group of black men painting themselves white and imitating a white boy-band? definitely not! Australia is extremely multicultural, most of my closest friends weren't even born here. To call us racist is ridiculous.
Kyra Kyles said:
Well, that's your right to say and I don't see why you are defending Australians as a whole when I am only talking about the group of individuals and those who booked them. They were dressed in blackface. I'd have had no issue with them if they had on 70s style clothes and even if they'd just done the wigs. That would make some kind of sense, but the rest of it was ridiculous. Please do not take on the burden of defending a few individuals as if they are representative of your entire country. I by no means am acting like I am repping for America in this blog. I am stating the opinion of one woman...that is me. Thanks for the comment, Aus82.
Carolom said:
Aus82 it might well be that you are not racist and your family might not be...but to say Australians are not racist at all" is either great ignorance or denial, both of which allow for the kinds of policies and practices that has seen Australia recently brought before the scrutiny of the United Nations and challenged on it's racist laws.
Check out some of the anti-Aboriginal postings across the internet and you will see how deep the current of racism is that runs through this country.
SOME Australians are racist...SOME are not but to say that there is no racism in this country tells me you have not spent any meaningful time with Aboriginal people in recent times.
ruddiga said:
Ron Burgundy. Stay Classy.
Mark said:
HCJ is an absolute fucking hypocrite! That youtube video skit on MadTV was 100x more racist than this skit on Hey, Hey it's Saturday and this guy has the nerve to tell Australians on live TV how to we should act, that blackface was wrong and how he was offended by it? What a crock of shit. If anything, Americans should worry about your own problems before you criticize others...god knows you have heaps of them. Have you guys suddenly forgot about your own racist past?
Piss off Harry, we dont want you here.
Andrew said:
I saw the Hey Hey "skit" last night, and turned it off, as I saw the Channel 9 media taking another swipe at "non-whites" in Australia. As a Greek Australian subject to many years of both passive and active racism in this country, I am delighted that someone like Harry has stood up for all the world to see, and shamed this country on the international stage! While we have the obligatory anti-discrimination laws here, and people are scared to say what they really mean, it is really the sublime racism which is so offensive. This racism is usually disguised under the veil of "Ozzie humour".
The only thing I am concerned about now is that you'll get the usual "Ozzie Oi Oi" brigade out in force spouting on about their "Ozzie Pride".
If you are from a minority group in Australia, WATCH OUT!!!, because it's certainly going to be "pay back time" very soon.
Dean said:
Andrew your an idiot, if you think channel 9 was taking a swipe at "non whites" you really need to get over your misguided thinking.... Oi Oi Oi
Kyra Kyles said:
Believe me, America is worried about it's own problems. If you take a look elsewhere in this blog, you'll see plenty of criticism leveled right at the U.S.A. This post isn't some act of patriotism or anti-Australian sentiment. I saw individuals doing something idiotic. I thought it was wrong and it isn't just because some crooner from America says so. I don't care anything about Harry Connick Jr. to be quite honest. And racist past? America still has many problems with racism. Why go into America vs Australia when this is just about an isolated incident?
rohanm said:
Mark..
you dont speak for all australians..
besides you might tell the americans to piss off..but it seems australia is full of american life from tv (morning till night full of american shows), cars..(just because you call them holden does not mean they are australian)and big kiss assing to americans because you are afraid of the militaries of the sorrounding asian countries..
Simon said:
Hi Carolm,
Yes I am anglo and no you completely missed my point. Who goes on TV to intentionally racially vilify other races of people? These guys were in the wrong and there is no place for this kind of behaviour in a civilised society but how can you claim these guys are racists without knowing them?
sterls said:
Kyra Kyles we are defending our country because there is alot of people out there say the whole of Australia is racist and that is crap.
Kyra Kyles said:
OK, well I am not saying that, sterls. And I think anyone who is saying that is wrong. America isn't so colorblind that we can judge any other country harshly.
coby said:
how come there is so much talk of "black" and "white" in all these comments? If there is so much equality in this world and improvement on racism, then we wouldn't be using these terms would we? I think everyone who has used these terms has a touch of racism in them! it shouldn't matter what color we are, its the way we treat each other that counts! Yes, the skit was distasteful and hurt some people, but it wasn't too long ago Harry himself was doing a skit were he portrayed a "black" preacher which I found on you tube! is this considered ok in America? Come on guys, stop trying to better one another with your comments and get back to work on educating people on how NOT to act! The maybe we wouldn't even bother commenting on such things!
chayaus said:
Seriously.....you'd think the US would have far more important issues to be discussing that a few blokes dressing up for a bit of a laugh. Big Deal.
There wasn't a shred of malice in what they did... this political correctness crap is taking over every facet of our lives. If Harry hadn't got his knickers in a knot...no one in the US would have even known this skit aired.
Take a deep breath people...lighten up a little and don't take everything so persoanlly...especailly something that was NEVER intended to racially attack anyone.
Kyra Kyles said:
Hey there: My knickers are not in a knot, but I do not think Harry is what tipped the scales. He isn't exactly an A-list celeb over here. As I keep saying, we live in a YouTube world where good -- and bad-- things spread like wildfire. These men may not be racist, but what they did was culturally insensitive from many perspectives. Now, if you don't find it offensive, that's fine. But why try to argue with those who do? People can decide on their own what matters. I don't think America is concerned with this to any high degree, but then again, so what if they were? Pop culture is just that, popular, and what's better to talk about: Susan Boyle, Jon and Kate Gosselin or football? Nobody is being forced to participate in this discussion. I do thank you for you comment though, chayaus.
chayaus said:
I apprecaite your reply Kyra.
You may not think Harry tipped the scales..but without his chest thumping 'i'm an offended american' reply...do you think this skit would have even made it onto Youtube...let alone been seen by yourself and the many others weighing into this highly important political debate? (sarcasm is our friend)
Perspective is a wonderful thing...and clearly a portion of Americans have been offended by the skit (which i guarantee was never the intention)...but this is an Australian show. We don't have the history of oppression you do, therefore the 'cultural sensitivities' are totally different.
Australian humour is a strange thing. If you want a great sample...watch some of 'The Chasers War on Everything'(especially the bin laden and vatican skits) or Good News Week.
It is strange though that a Black man can imitate a White man/Woman without reproach...yet for some reason a light hearted skit with those roles reversed has caused so much controversy.
BN said:
Re read the last sentance of your blog and tell me that doesn't give the impression that you got your "knickers in a knot".
Wombat said:
First of all this was an aussie TV show for aussie viewers,do we find this racist no because we dont carry the bagage of you yanks we never had slaves,we never masacared the red indian population
you people need to understand the USA is only a part of the world the world is not a part of the USA read the feedback on www.hearaldsun.com.au a Melb newspaper and get the other prospective, what about Robert Downey playing a black man and geting praised by Hollywood talk about double standards and Mick Jackson imatated a white man for 20 years and i was not offended
ruddiga said:
Hey Kyles. Your point on cultural sensitivities (are there too many i's in that?) is fine, but does that mean that for every action now, we should be conscience of other people's culture. If I go to my local deli, have a coffe and stratch my testes, do I need to worry about someone filming this and hurting someone else's feelings thousands of miles away? Polotical Correctness has gone the same way as NASA, up the shit. Read a Tintin novel, then get shirty.
cheeky745 said:
Oh lighten up. Australian did not have slaves nor no matter what you hear over there in your small world treat our Aborignals with racial hate. What the early settlers did has already been settled and we have said sorry to the natives of Australia. I have yet to hear any Government or public announcement of a similar thing in America. Actually I just came back from America after being there for over 3 months and I can see that race hate is still a very big issue over in your country. Harry was a guest on a show in another country where we can actually find light heartedness in people and things...shock horror we even laugh at ourselves. Maybe if more Americans found a bit of sense of humour and lightheartedness they may have less wars and less hatred against their country. Harry can go back and state his views in his own country sort out your own crap before turning something innocent in a racial outrage. Grow Up America!!!!!
Kyra Kyles said:
Hey, cheeky745, I'm taking it very light over here. I am not going to let some shoe-polish wearing morons ruin my life. But if I feel like calling them out, I will. Nowhere did I say that America is superior or that we have reached some age of cultural enlightenment. We still have people calling our President the n-word. If you take a look around this blog instead of focusing on one entry with the word "Australia" in it, you will see that I criticize things right here at home. I appreciate the Aussie pride, but there is no need for it here. I am focused on the actions of individuals, not a country as a whole. And Harry is a non-issue for me. Had I seen even just the video of the performance, that would tell me enough to formulate my own opinion. I'm not speaking on behalf of America, but merely expressing myself. I think the people who need to grow up are those who put wild wigs on their heads and black paint on their faces. Another group who could stand to mature are those who think that passes for humor.
SteveO said:
Tell me Kyra,
Why is it funny then when a couple of African American guys dress up as White women and then call the movie "White Chicks"? Isn't that racist as well then, or how about Eddie Murphy's numerous comedy sketches where he gets put in white make-up and "acts" white. I think it's about time people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I personally found Eddie Murphy's sketches funny because I can laugh at the "white" stereotype, yet we should be culturally sensitive to the African-Americans out there. This is where America is SOOOOOO wrong. You should learn to take these sketches in there stride like I have, watch the sketch, if you are impersonating any character you dress up to be like them (surely if you dressed up like Paris Hilton you would paint your face white and wear a blond wig - correct), would it have been accurate if they didn't have the face paint on? Did they use any racist phrases? I think not. This is total rubbish and shows people are too culturally sensitive. I would have thought sketches like in "The Date Movie" - you can see I like comedy - where a Michael Jackson impersonator is trying to give a toy to a small child would be more offensive. But hey I've got morals and if they said or acted racist I would be ashamed, but the Key is -------- THEY DID NOT. Otherwise you could say Eddie Murphy and plenty of other African Americans who poke fun at "White People" are racist against anglo-saxons.
BN said:
Again I refer to the last sentace in your blog. If you were taking it so lightly then why did you say you were so disgusted, you where breathless. Either you lying now or you were just blowing it out of proportion to get a reaction (which would demean blacks more the this socalled racist clip). So keep backpeddalling. I like how you keep changing what the blog meant with any critisism you recieve.
billyblogster said:
You removed my comment about the "n-word". So on the one hand you value YOUR freedom of speach, and yet on the other hand you value CENSORSHIP?
Kyra Kyles said:
I welcome all discussion and clearly have been called a host of names, even within this post, but this is my blog and I am not going to allow that word to be bandied about. To be honest: I would have edited it, but didn't have access to my laptop, so I instead deleted it. I do not use it, and therefore, if you want to put it in ther to make a point, please do it with asterisk or something. I understand that you want to make a point, but again, that is probably one of the only words that I don't want in this space. Others, as you argue, may use it, but I sincerely shun it. I don't "value" censorship, but everyone has their own lines and you can certainly do what you want in a space that you designate.
billyblogster said:
Kyra, I personally think it is a disgusting word, as is the c-word for female genitalia, and I use neither of these words.
However, as a part Aborigine in Sydney I have to say that I find it amusing when words become taboo, because it only serves to make them more powerful - hence my earlier comment.
When I was born to my Scottish-Australian mother, and her Aunt first saw me she said "Dear, there's a touch of the tar brush in him". I developed a thick skin, studied two bachelor degrees and a masters degree, worked and lived abroad (including on Wall St in the early ninties), and developed my own identity. It means nothing to me if someone calls me an Abo, and I personally would hate the word to develop more power and meaning than it currently has if it were to become taboo. I respect your views, and share your dislike for the n-word , but I also appreciate candid debate with factually informed people.
Speaking of facts, there are many comments in this blog about the (understandable) sensitivity of Americans to things "black", and incorrect references to the "fact" that Australia never had slaves, and we are therefore less sensitive. This is incorrect, Australia did have slaves. We did have people forcibly removed from their homes and transported half way around the world only to work in bonded labour at gunpoint until they died. It is never called slavery because they were all white people, but that is exactly what it was. The first generation of "convicts" forcibly brought here to establish a colony never attained the status of free men and women, that only happened for the second wave of convicts. These people were systematically abused and murdered, and were forced at gunpoint to carve stone out of the rocks to build the first settlement in Sydney, which is ironically called "the Rocks". However, this doesn't count as slavery (even though it was virtually identical to the slavery of Africans), because it was white people doing it to themselves.
I have mixed blood. So I see both sides.
tonydelk said:
I love this idea of the Australian good nature, I only wish it existed as you believe it does. I am an American who has lived in Australia for 6 years, and I have never been able to get anyone outside my family to actually have a genuine conversation about race. Australians are more afraid to talk openly about race than any other people I have ever met. Australians act as if racism only existed in the past,they said 'Sorry' so that's it, it never happens anymore. Look Australia is not as a country racist, but to act as if racism doesn't exist here anymore is ridiculous. The fact that there is not a sizable black population does not excuse your racist past. Race hate is still a big deal in the USA but I was just there too and I cannot tell you how refreshing it is to hear people openly talk about black/white issues and oh yeah, electing the first black president. Are there any black members even in Parliament?
billyblogster said:
There have been Aboriginal members of Federal and State politics, but as you point out there are none now. The most recent was Senator Aden Ridgeway - and he was a tremendous Senator. Nevertheless, it's not that surprising, as Aboriginees account for just 1.8% of the Australian population. They are truly a minority group. I should know, I am one, or at least part Aborigine, as my grandmother in WA is part aborigine.
Living here you would know that Aboriginal issues are quite complex, especially the health issues. It certainly is not through the want of trying or through lack of money. It's difficult to bring their living conditions on to par with urban dwelling non-aboriginal people when they choose to live in the desert, or in remote communities. I live near Redfern in Sydney, surrounded by aboriginees, and they're generally well cared for.
Carolom said:
Very true Tony and you won't hear the australian equivalents of the n-word, the A, B and C words spoken either let alone brought out for public debate to discuss their vilification and how they were and still are used to demonise Aboriginal people.
Carolom said:
Cheeky745 I am sure that as an anglo-Australian you might well think the Apology means it is 'over' but it would be a good idea for you to educate yourself about the outstanding issues of the Stolen Wages that are still before the courts and the men and women who as young children and adults lived in conditions that were the same as slavery in so far as being taken to a place to work for no wages, living under the maters rule (often station owners and church leaders).
The history of slavery and internment began in 1788 in this country and to deny that is our history is to perpetuate the lie that Aborigines were not treated as slaves and if you read "Blood on the Wattle" - the history of massacres in Australia, you will also see how they were massacred enmasse for a prolonged period of time.
DinoD said:
@ Carolom Theres MY detector going off again.....
"My pattern-detector tells me you have not sat with any of these Elders Dino and are basing your claims on the things you have read in the papers about an Intervention that was hurried into place just before the last election." - and is still enforced by the new Labour government. Therefore election timing has really nothing to do with it, rather it was a response to the overwhelming opinion of the majority of Australians who were completely appalled by the standards of behaviour and abuse and wanted direct action to address it NOW, not in 30 years time when feel-good policies may or may not have worked. A pretty reasonable opinion too, and the intervention is an excellent short-term response.
"When income management is also put into the high-risk non-Aboriginal specific suburbs for EVERYone that lives there, regardless of age or identified behaviors, where child abuse and social issues are rife, I will withdraw my assertion that the Intervention was a racially motivated act." - check DOCS policies in each state on withholding and sequestering provisions for entitlements and how they apply to ALL individuals, and then withdraw your assertion.
"that doors are closed from renting properties to working in retail because they are Aboriginal and for no other reason." You could argue that discrimination in leasing and retail applies to other races such as Indians, but I see a lot of them practicing law and especially medicine. Your argument is disingenuous. Enough with the bullshit and start basing your opinions on fact, rather than parrotted opinions and assertions whose context is deliberately withheld..
rohanm said:
Dino...
you see indians practising medicine because there is an acute shortage of doctors in this country..and because it is a highly specialised field and not all the bogans are up for studying you see immmigrants in this field...
but the fact is in the mainstream discrimination exists!
Carolom said:
These views are facts. We are talking about the every day reality of my friends and family.
Because it also happens for Indian people does not make it less significant .
I worked in child protection for 20 years and am intimately familiar with the laws that are in place, how people carry them out and where Aboriginal families sit in this land of equal rights for all.
Jasonaus said:
Kyra,
Like "bloodyhell" I say very well put and appreciate your point of view. I just feel America needs to lighten up a little and smile. If you look again at the footage and not look at the so called racist side of it - you will see that it was quite a funny performance.
Just as a footnote, you claim that you are not calling Australia, as a whole, racist. There are a lot of people, more sensitive than me who may see your quote: "These Aussie idiots need to get back in the time machine and join us here in 2009." as doing just that.
Cheers
Jase
ohpuhleeease said:
Thanks, Kyra, for calling me an "Aussie idiot". I have two uni degrees and regard myself as openminded and non-judgemental. But I DO take umbrage at your comments. And those of all the Americans who have equally made derogatory remarks against Australia due to this skit. I come across Americans every week who have chosen to move to and live in Australia because they love the people, culture, lifestyle etc. I like to think we are getting the nice ones.
And if you say one more time that you didn't call Australians clueless and stupid - then perhaps it's YOU that needs to be a bit sensitive to what YOU portray in the media. Perhaps you didn't mean to offend - but you did. It's called a double standard.
cheeky745 said:
Oh Kyra another thing before you go complaining about what was innocently done about your "so called people" maybe being a professional blogger you might reconsider lashing out personal insults of your own which you did by calling Australians clueless and stupid. Pretty intelligent piece of writing there. You get paid allot of that? LOL Practice what you preach and worry about your own because it is over THERE where you are treated second class not here hence our high percentage of Multiculturism.
Kyra Kyles said:
I did not call Australians clueless and stupid. I am calling people who do blackface in a very public venue clueless and stupid. I do not apologize for that. I think you may be letting your emotions get the best of you because you can read this blog 100 times and you will never find any of the things you just accused me of. I am not a professional blogger, but a reporter and columnist who also blogs. It's not like I am paid to write things about Australia. And if you took a bit of time to look at this blog and scouted around, I have plenty of things to say about America as well. I am not suffering from some crazed patriotism that makes me believe I live in a perfect country. I feel it's better to challenge ignorance than to ignore it or tell others to "lighten up." If that angers you, I truly regret that. However, I will continue to do what I think is right. And as for my "so called people," I have no idea what you mean. Blacks? Americans? Who? The only thing I'm defending is common sense and cultural awareness and I'd do the same if I saw a group of people insulting people from Australians and their culture to a degree that made a large number of them feel targeted and hurt. You may not agree with me, but please do not twist my words or intent.
Charlotte said:
How about American's get some cultural awareness - say get 100 randoms off the street to tell you where Austrlia is and if they believe we keep kangeroos as pets
Cory said:
you are a half-wit. In Australia we aren't as racist as you lot there. We do not even have the term 'blackface' used in day to day vocab.
cheeky745 said:
You want Historical insight??? RESEARCH because everything stated here about how the aboriginals are treated is highly incorrect! Yes those things did and have happened a long long time ago and no we have not ignored it we have publicy addressed each and every issue as a Nation. The Australian Government continuously supplies the "outback" aborignals with money, health and education all of which they don't have to pay for. The Australian Government has said "sorry" publicly on behalf of ALL of Australians to the Stolen Generation. Each and every time any person Aboriginal or Caucasion dies in custory there is an investigation and report. SO get facts correct before pasting false information over the internet.
LucyLu said:
RACISM: The prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races. Discriminatory or abusive behaviour towards members of another race. Now, was there any hate, discrimination, abuse or prejudice involved, or was it ...simply satire?
I cant believe what a big deal this is. Americans have been portraying Australians as Beer swilling, wife beating drongo's for years, and yet do you see the Australian media taking it out of context, blowing it out of proportin or damning you for it? No.
This sketch, while in very bad taste, was not racially motivated, nor was it meant as an offensicve portrayal of African Americans.
Shame on everyone who jumps on this political correctness bandwagon. What a Joke.
ruddiga said:
Oh Kyles, you like to challenge ignorance? That's hilarious, do a report on Reagan.
jjb said:
Talk about racism, how bout trying to understand the Aussie culture. It doesn't matter if you're black, white, asian, european or anything else in Oz, you all get teased. I'm a serbian in Australian and routinely get teased and you tease them right back for being 'skips' etc. It's part of a culture of acceptance, just because Ameerica doesn't understand it, and has a different history, doesn't mean they should try to impose their thinking on another country.
The fact that they performers said they wouldn't do the skit in America shows an understanding of the American culture, not that there was anything wrong with the skit.
I respect both cultures and believe that they both have a lot to offer the world, but let's not kid ourselves, if all countries around the world had the same culture it would be a pretty boring world.
Jasonaus said:
Hey cheeky745, relax a bit will you. Remember this is an Amercian blog and some of your comments are quite incorrect and the grammar and spelling mistakes are making me embarrassed :).... (not that mine are perfect)
Jase
cheeky745 said:
Dino nothing your wrote there is true at all. Are you Australian? Where did you get that information from? I can tell you from fact not what I have seen or heard that everything you wrote is incorrect. Show me where an Aboriginal is not allowed to work in retail...show me where an Aborgingal is not allowed to rent...Every aboriginal I know and had relationships with have rented and worked in numerous fields of work retail included. As far as child abuse being rife here those in glass houses should not throw stones. Take a look at your countrys percentage.
Kyra maybe we agree on most things...if you are for the individual. What angers me is when people turn something we don't even see as racial (the colour was not even something we found funny) into a racial issue. We never had the painted faces here like you guys did over there years ago. Yes we have racial people but I think our Country as a whole is very easy going we have a very large amount of foreign people here maybe more then Australian we don't care as long as we all get along. I am not writing to be patriotic to my Country I am writing because I think the reaction is over the top and extreme. If every American reacted to such extreme over what others say or do in their OWN country no wonder they have so much conflict worldwide. Challenge for you Kyra seeing though some of your fellow American followers have made rather strong statements against Australia regarding child abuse and how we treat the natives of this country resarch it and report the truths. Give your followers the facts so they stop trash talking on issues they obviously know nothing about. Freedom of speach is apparently a big thing over there guess it only works for Americans hey? The truth always prevails in the end.
Carolom said:
I can tell you the story of how my Black friend went to apply for house and was told it was taken...so she got her fair skinned relative to apply and the house was not taken at all...but the landlord was taken...to court.
I am not saying this is the case for al Black Australians in private rental but to deny that it happens is just plain ignorance.
This 'easy going country' that you live in is a very different one than many Aboriginal people live in every day. Your values are obviously solid and based on non-racist attitudes...but to think that this is the way it is right across all strata of society is very naive.
Charlotte said:
Carolom you have been calling us ignorant so we can start calling you ignorant. Many aborogiana people do not actually need to apply for a house for rent - our Govt looks after them very well thank you. Those that do apply - as is the same for anyone - go through a REALATOR- everything is done through a real estate agency - your rental rules and how you go about rent are very different. I;ve filled out many of these forms for clients (all sorts of people) and there is nothing on the application forms - the only way you can rent a place in australia - saying 'nationalty' so there is no way to know whose is whose
Carolom said:
Not all people who rent houses use Realtors and to deny that Aboriginal people experience bias based on appearance whether it be in country towns or cities denies what happens for some Black Australians.
If you research the current housing crisis and talk to the Aboriginal homeless Project Officer you will hear a very different story than the one where the government 'looks after them very well thankyou'.
I worked in homelessness and housing across shelters and private rental for many years, in an agency that also dealt with child protection issues so my perceived ignorance may be a a result of your lack of involvement in the areas of homelessness and accommodation.
cheeky745 said:
Do you live and work in Australia Carolom?
If so you would know that sometimes people applying to rent can be refused because they have children or pets or they are too young. It is up the owners who they want in their homes. There is NOTHING that states on any rental application your Nationality. Aboriginals DO get public housing. They also get easy mortgages to own a property with only 3% interest. I know this because I was engaged to an aboriginal for 8yrs. I lived in a very small community that you could say was mainly aboriginal for 15yrs. So just wondering where you are getting your information from.
Carolom said:
My family and friends is where I know of these things cheeky745. I was a housing support worker for homeless Aboriginal families for many years and sat on the boards of several shelters that dealt with the fall out from the kinds of stories you refute.
That is great to know your partner did not experience the racism and racist stereo typing that many Aboriginal people endure every day.
ohpuhleeease said:
This is a much deeper problem than you espouse Carolom. Some aboriginals are their own worst enemies - it is evidence-based that most housing provided to them just gets trashed - often to a condemned state. I wouldn't lease my home to an aboriginal family either. If you have worked in the health industry as you claim, then hopefully you have entered some of these homes. Numerous charity donations, counselling, unending health services - usually all free, heavily subsidised or free housing - the list is endless - seem to be making no inroad at all. It's a fact that over 90% of aboriginals are unemployed - and not always because they can't find employment. Mostly because they won't work, or leave it, or turn up drunk to interviews/work (which is rare though). The work ethic is poor and they abuse any white person who enters their territory, be it street or town. So then the cycle continues - more free housing, more trashing, more housing....
This isn't the case for other black Australians though, interestingly.
Carolom said:
I entered equally as many non-Aboriginal homes that were beset with the same issues that arise from poverty and social, emotional and mental well being issues.
your sweeping comments about 'they' wont; work, get drunk and work ethic is poor is highly insulting to the dozens of Aboriginal people I now who live and work in our society.
Classic negative-racial sterotyping in your post!
Realworld said:
I didn"t find the skit funny either But harden the f@#@ up. A lot of Americans impersonate Elvis as an hugely obese man (bigger than he was) no one cares about that or other impersonators. Sick to death of all the do-gooders.
Jackie said:
Maybe the Aussies want this to be included in their tourism video....since they seem to think it is harmless fun.
cheeky745 said:
Jason it is not spelling or grammar mistakes just could not be bothered to fix the errors I make while typing. Thanks for the tip though :-)
Poppy said:
As an Australian I was disgusted and appalled by this sketch. A lot of us were. The show should never have gone to air and I hope it is cancelled for good today. All it's done is given a green light for racists to air their views online, and it has damaged Australia's reputation enormously. That damage will be hard to undo.
ruddiga said:
Bullshit Poppy, Sydney's hippie surfers have ruined Australia's reputation not this.
Poppy said:
What ARE you talking about?
ohpuhleeease said:
Nah....it was old Johnny when he joined forces with George over Iraq wos what did it.
bojax said:
a while back you blogged about your least favorite SNL charectors
Charlotte said:
I'm sorry but you american's are one hyprocritical bunch are you not. People used to pain their faces black so they could sign jazz and blue's music - as this was a black man's (sorry austrlian term that is not seen as raciest to us but probably is to you) area. They painted their faces black so they would be the jackson 5 - who are all african american and have much darker colour skin then the people that did it.
Had an american - who must be right all the time - not being on the show nothing would have been known to you lot. I find it very offensive that you think we run around in kangeroo poaches, use violence to punish our criminals (lets remember America you have the death pentality and we do not!) and that our prime minister lays in a dam drinking beer all day - all this shown on The Simpson - a show which is broadcasted around the world not a show that is intended for a small community of only 2 milion people to watch.
It seems that you American's are allowed to dictate to the world what is racest and what is not. Well to us somethings that you say about us are raciest but you do not see it. We are not ignorent nor raciest - this was not a stab at African Americans, or Native Americans - this was a stab at a very sad, stupid pop group of the 80's.
Why should we as a country have to take into account how American's may view something when they don't even know where Australia is.
Also the movie Kangeroo Jack - how do you know people were not offended by that- but that is ok that is making fun of australians. ANd Whit Chicks - again making fun of white females and there is apparently nothing wrong with that.
USAgirlNAustralia said:
well seeing i am AMERICAN living in Australia for the past 8 years i totally have to agree with charlotte on her post...
I also think that AMERICA in general needs to be a bit more educated before they get on the net and start posting crap about what happens in other countries..
I find it funny that a country that has THE MOST killings and gun issues and boarder issues is commenting on something like this..
LOL @ that news reporter.. what you report on CHICAGO news???? thats about all you know my love.
In then end you guys need to stick with issues that are over there and stop trying to put your two cents in on things that happen over here becuase YOU are the one that has issues with black people and have treated them like slaves from wayyyy back.. get educated on where australia is located and the culture as well before you comment on thinks...
as an AMERICAN myself over here... do me a favor... STOP EMBARRASSING ME WITH YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE!!!!
The WORLD is NOT AMERICA and does NOT revolve around AMERICA!
Stop whinging about pathetic crap.. you would have thought since sept 11 you people would have grown some balls but apparently NOT!
and one last thing..
AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE!!!! OI OI OI!!!
ohpuhleeease said:
Like I said earlier, USAgirlNAustralia, we got the best of the Americans.....
and yes, I heard today that we are a backwater (isn't that a racist comment?). And now, speaking of the death penalty, gun laws, trigger-happy wars, AND a history of slavery which Australia DOES NOT HAVE - you just don't seem to get that you can be as offended as you like at our culture - but it IS our culture, not yours. You dish out insults, you get them in return.
Barrington said:
Kyra, Appreciate your thoughts on this but, as an Australian, I'd like to say the stupidity of six people does not make all Aussies racists. Many of us here changed channels when this event took place. At the same time, I doubt the six people involved were being deliberately racist. All six are medical professionals (cardiologist, radiologist etc) and at least three were from Asian backgrounds.
Kyra Kyles said:
Barrington, I do not think that all Aussies are racist. Nor do I think these men are racist. I think the performers are clueless and I would never extrapolate their behavior to an entire country. Thanks for commenting!
jtc83 said:
Just because 'blackface' (I've never heard of the term before really) has historical significance in America, it doesn't mean the rest of the world knows or cares. Slavery was a terrible mistake made by AMERICA and the many repercussions it has today shouldn't be forced on to other countries who had no part in the slavery caused by America.
axella said:
I hope people realise that this particular show always played to the lowest common denominator back when it was a weekly show, and does not reflect how all Australians think.
Many people were as horrified as we were, when the skit went to air on the "Reunion Special" - especially as HC's own band contained members who would've been directly offended by it. It is rude to invite guests to appear, and then insult them, most of us have better manners than that! And it wasn't done completely in ignorance, as another performer on a popular football show on the same network was severely criticised for doing "blackface" a few years ago. These people simply thought that they could get away with it in the nostalgic, warm and fuzzy "reunion" mode, but they have not! They have killed any chance of this show ever being resurrected in a permanent slot, and they desperately wanted to return.
This episode goes to show why this particular program was cancelled years ago. Its nasty humour is cringe-worthy stuff, and belongs to a different era.
ohpuhleeease said:
axella - re your last paragraph - this shows why the show was cancelled? Hello? It ran for 28 YEARS!!!
I have seen the mickey taken out of aussies on american tv - ohhhh yes. Let's call a spade a spade and please don't speak as though YOUR opinions reflect how all Australians think either. This skit was shown only because the actors were the "singers" in the original skit. That's it. Nothing to make a fuss over. Move on.
bojax said:
well learn to spell " dumb aussie" any who Mr white by Eddie Murphy... also you talk about the history behind black face and that it should have stayed buried 100 years ago ...well the N word is older than that and kept alive by the wider black community?????
Australia may or may not be racist... they did not do jokes or poke fun they sang a song that they had done 20 years ago only this time MJ was white that is the joke...we like to take the PISS
Offended said:
Funny the irony of insulting an entire country inferring theyre racist to defend your own ideals. I personally am offended at your blog, should it be shut down now too? They could have picked a much better skit I agree but its intent was not to cause harm. The group themselves are multicultural! In australia, while having a few exceptions, we are generally very tolerant. Its a reflection of your own personal insecurities that this has caused such a furor. While racism still exists we here in aus are comfortable enough to not notice the colour of peoples skin, and rather notice the act for what it was, a satirical tribute to jackson.
Jaypee said:
Agreed, I think to be judgemental using ONLY your own countries history as a reference is very poor, almost as poor as the Jackson Jive's attempted humour, I have seen ALOT of american skits that are also not funny, including Whiteface Boy Band Skits, but so what... Move on...
There's a big difference between poor taste & racist. I don't think the skit was racist, would the oversensitive people in the world thought it better if they did a parody the Jackson 5 wearing Suba diving gear, no, I think not.
It is not appropriate to comment on another Country and insult it's community for what YOUR Country may find distasteful. The Jackson 5 were BLACK,
when in Rome....do what the Americans do....just doesn't have the same ring to it.
I watched the whole show and was offended at Harry's Version of a Billy joel classic..but I got over it.
But who am I to comment, Ah yes, the Americans would certainly be experts on racism...
Blackaussieboi said:
Im Aboriginal and I notice most Australian's defending the skit are white. Thats the problem with white Australians is that they will be racist and not think that they are. They say things like Abo, nigga etc and say "but im not being racist". America, Australia is a racist country, just ask us Aboriginal people.
chopperblue said:
you can't brand all white australians as racist. because some of us are far from it. would you like me to say "that's the problem with aboriginal australians".........no. choose your words better please.
ohpuhleeease said:
Of course you would think that. But I think you're racist against white people - so your comments tell me. Or did you miss that, Blackaussieboi?
ps where do you live? nigga? Abo? Not where I live....
cheeky745 said:
Blackaussieboi I am shocked you are using the word black lol Never really heard the N word over here but whatever. What tribe are you from? I know quite a few from different tribes. Curious to know which one you are from and where you get treated so badly.
Charlotte said:
haha my thoughts excatly
USAgirlNAustralia said:
lol cheeky i too would like to know... Sherbourg maybe???
JIMMYx2xTIMES said:
Why is it ok for Harry C to have a blackface and play a black preacher on MADTV? What a Hypocrite!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooKaCbMvaZ0
I am amazed that Americans at taking such an interist in something happening outside of the US. It would be a first!
ady said:
Kyra, you have the patience of a saint in your responses. As an Aussie, I definitely thought the skit was way out of line and deserves criticism, both within Australia and abroad. While no one country has a monopoly on racism, I think, as in many areas, Australia unfortunately "punches well above its weight".
If anything, I hope through this experience, people in Australia learn something about the history of African-American experiences, and that we also learn to be more sensitive to our guests, such as Harry Connick Jr. Maybe then we can join you in 2009 after all as civilised human beings.
By the way -- you have never been to Australia? You're missing out -- we'd love to have you visit and I'll throw another prawn (shrimp) on the barbie for you. Cheers.
USAgirlNAustralia said:
* rolls eyes * lemme guess you voted for John Howard???!!!
Charlotte said:
sorry to burst your bubble but from the way that Ady is writing and what they are saying I would think it would have been Kevin Rudd.
I on the otherhand are proud to say I voted for John Howard
chopperblue said:
pfft
ohpuhleeease said:
Most Americans don't travel that much, ady. What's the figure? I remember less than 40%, perhaps 25% of Americans have passports. Aussies on the other hand - over 60%. We are widely travelled (Aussies on every British street corner) and have more exposure to other cultures than I would imagine Americans do. And we are not so vain as to assume that another country should base their historical perspectives on our own history. As if.
pearlie said:
Don't you realize just how racist you are being by not understanding that this is another country and who are you to interfere? That's the problem with Americans. They think they are the world's police force or something. You won't get their humour because you have no understanding of irony. Before you start taking potshots at what was an amateur act, get your own professionals both black and white to clean up their own acts first and start fixing America before you have the hide to condemn others.
Black Face is used alot in American humour. Robert Downey jr was nominated at this years Oscars for Tropic Thunder where he wore black face. The Jackson Jive weren't sending up black people, they were sending up the Jacksons. Big difference.
You can start by cleaning up here.
* Fred Armisen, impersonating Barack Obama on Saturday Night Live in 2008
* Dan Aykroyd in Trading Places (1983)
* Jack Black in Be Kind Rewind (2008)
* Dave Chappelle in the second lost episode of Chappelle's Show
* Anthony Cumia, impersonating OJ Simpson in his former band Rotgut's music video "Gonna Electric Shock OJ"
* D-Generation X members Triple H, Road Dogg Jesse James, Bad Ass Billy Gunn, and X-Pac during their parody of the rival WWF stable Nation of Domination on the July 6, 1998 episode of Raw
* Tommy Davidson in Bamboozled (2000)
* Whoopi Goldberg, impersonating Bert Williams in the special Night of 100 Stars II (1985)
* Darrell Hammond, impersonating Jesse Jackson on Saturday Night Live in 2006
* Jamie Kennedy in an episode of Blowin' Up and in various skits of The Jamie Kennedy Experiment
* Jimmy Kimmel, as Karl Malone and Oprah Winfrey on The Man Show
* Horatio Sanz, impersonating Aaron Neville on SNL in 2007
* Sarah Silverman in an episode of The Sarah Silverman Program
* David Spade in a skit on The Showbiz Show with David Spade
* Ben Stiller in Zoolander (2001)
So Harry Connick Jr and all you people who think it was racist and an insult to Americans need to GET OVER IT!
USAgirlNAustralia said:
I TOTALLY AGREE!! GOOD ON YA MATE!!!!!!!
Carolom said:
There are many of us Australians who applaud Kyras response and don't see it as a racist or uninvited intrusion into a cultural formof comedy that she doesn't understand!
Kyra is naming an historically oppressive style that grew out of the era of n**gers and Black people as offensive.
Plenty of my my Australian friends did not 'get' their humour, seeing it as a demonstration of how ignorant people still are on a television show that has long lived its used by date.
Charlotte said:
to most australian's the act of painting your face came from the whites who wanted to sign and play jazz musice but were unable to as it was a 'black mans' world.
I would think that Robert Downy jnr playing an australian playing a black man who did not come out of charcter throught the movie tropic thunder would be raciest - its okay for me to call another a skip a skip or for my kids to call another swog as thats what they are. But I hear it is rather offensive for white people - which is what robert downy jnr is - to call black people 'n*******'
And guess what this was not offensive to any cultural of australia so it was fine
ohpuhleeease said:
EXACTLY!!! She DOESN'T UNDERSTAND our culture. Then Kyra should have just shut up!!!!
thank you Carolom - and might I state that Aussies DO understand our culture - and it was OUR show!! Ignorant, shmignorant - that term is freely bandied around, usually without merit.
Jaypee said:
YEAH!!!!!!!!! WELL SAID!!!!
Woodsy said:
Truly hypocrisy at its worst here. OK so lets make a comparison, the tendency of American television shows with the comment "A dingo ate my baby". Does your population actually realise that that was a true event, a baby was literally taken away by a wild dog? Yet when this comment is made, do you see us jump up and down and have every opinion column overflowing with anti-US comments - not that any attention will be paid from the US unless it advances your cause as an opinionated journalist - or are we expected to deal with it? And surely the US is the last to take the moral high-ground regarding what is good taste in television.
cheeky745 said:
lol USAgirlINAustralia that is a long name to type. It is actually Cherbourg still funny though.
Jimmy well well well what a hyprocite he is for sure. Does not surprise me though seems to be common. He needs to practice what he preaches lol refer to the video.
To make things clearer Australians can laugh at themselves as well as others. We can take the crap we dish out and know that everything does not have to be serious. Lets ban the Simpons it shows way too much racial slurring. Just crazy. Freedom of speech in America does not mean telling other Countries what they should or should not watch on tv. Back off with the continuous comments on other countries and the world will be a happier place.
jon said:
Kyra, well done you must have read every comment and replied to most. However, America is the most hated nation in the world, but Australia wants to be number one. This is just the beginning...
ohpuhleeease said:
We will never be the number one hated nation. The Americans would never relinquish that honour - the arrogance is everywhere.
cheeky745 said:
Oh USAgirlInAustralia that was not meant as an insult correcting you :-) I know you did that on purpose to make a point.
I am not sure about any pollies that I will leave well enough alone lol
Pearlie that was well put but I bet there will be some excuse and acceptance behind them.
Woodsy agree sometimes I think it would not matter what we write they have their own oppinions based on their own world and don't care what others think.
USAgirlNAustralia said:
Cheeky you are lucky i am OVER the AMERICAN in me and i didnt take that to heart like the skit!!!
jon said:
kyra, please gut punch these fools - because u will be punching an indian a leb but no whites thanks
ps; u know why one guy had a white face? because he is black! is that ok?
USAgirlNAustralia said:
cheeky745 said:
lol lucky me then.
lol Jon that is so funny even more funny because it is true :-)
USAgirlNAustralia said:
what is up with that photo?? Why am i BLACK against white gravel or whatever it is??? Maybe i should be offended because it does not portray the real me????
chopperblue said:
Stop slandering Australia! We do not belong to America or a bound by your racist history. We have our own history, Thank you very much! If an American guest hadn't of even been on the show and been offended, Americans wouldn't of even known this was on tv in Australia. Yes, they were depiciting American Idols but I'm sure there was nothing maliscous in it. If you think this is racism, then I think you suggesting they need to be gut punched is promoting violence as an acceptable behaviour in rataliation. I know you may be using this term loosely, so why don't you find this skit to be in the same nature? We are not America, we have our own standards.
USAgirlNAustralia said:
: ) Chopperblue could not have said it myself
chopperblue said:
thanks love. another point to consider is the fact that most or some Australians don't know the term "Blackface" or its meaning. We shouldn't have to do research on the history of other countries before doing a performance in our own country - just so we don't offend anyone in the rest of the world? We shouldn't be calling these people ignorant or stupid for not knowing that this would offend American's. We are being unfair, I feel. Some Americans may feel this is ignorance but geez i've met a few Americans who'd only heard of Sydney. (Note to Americans, there is more than one large city in Australia) sorry, is that taking the piss too much.
ladida said:
Ok seriously, this was not meant to be offensive in any way. If any of you were familiar with this TV show, you would know that it is all in jest! It could only really be construed as racist if they had deliberately set out to offend, WHICH THEY DIDN'T.
It was a tribute people, and it was a funny one at that.
Get off your high horses and take it for what it was, a comedy sketch. stop preaching and have a laugh, not at their black faces, but at the act AS A WHOLE.
And by the way, isn't Harry Connick Jr. the biggest hypocrite of all, as he himself dressed up and imitated a black person and in the MadTV sketch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooKaCbMvaZ0
And what about the movie Tropic Thunder? Robert Downey Jr. had black nugget all over his face playing a black man in this comedy movie.
Hypocritical much?
saph said:
awol78 coudlnt have said it any better!
get over yourselves america, your country is full of double standards and always has been. i think you should be more concernced with your own pr image after invading iraq for no reason.
ladida said:
And also, the significance of this act was that they performed it 20 years ago. Same people, same act. It was an encore performance.
It was excellent, and no, we are not a racist nation, just one that enjoys being entertained, as this act was purely for that purpose, no hidden agendas here.
And no, the performers aren't 'as stupid' as you feared, they are all working medical doctors actually, smarter than most.
Message from Montie said:
I have a degree in English. That doesn't mean I'm a great mathematician. Their medical degrees do not mean that they have enough common sense (obviously) to know that this was a bad idea. The fact that they did it over 20 years ago was horrendous enough, but to bring this heinours routine back is beyond belief.
Kyra Kyles said:
Thank you for the support, Montie. Common sense is all I'm even arguing. And all this tit for tat, regarding "White Chicks" is ridiculous. I didn't make the film, so I feel no responsibility for it. That movie in no way justifies the kind of insensitivity evident here and in that awful skit. People prefer excuses to solutions, it appears.
ohpuhleeease said:
Kyra, why is "tit for tat" ridiculous? White Chicks is a perfect example - why won't you allude to it? It was black men dressing up and parodying two white women. Simple. I didn't do the hey hey skit either, but you called me an idiot. And if your logic holds, then as a nation YOU are responsible for all racism, just as we are responsible for OUR racism. Your can't have it both ways. And you don't argue for common sense. You argue yourself from an uninformed viewpoint - you don't know our culture, and you yourself state you are not an expert in Australian history. Yet we are expected to note your own chequered past and abide by America's senstitivities. I believe Australia is far less racist than America, so Americans need to fix themselves up before preaching outrage.
JIMMYx2xTIMES said:
I have some more questions. How come this “so called racism” is unacceptable but the call for the “Blackface Performers Need a Gut Punch” violence an acceptable response? Should I take that as your attempt at a bit of humour or is it serious? I guess that’s the typical American response. Don’t like it. Nuke it. Bomb it. Kill it. Gut punch it.
USAgirlNAustralia said:
Jimmy that is what they do best.. they know ALL about violence hence the high percent in shootings and murders..
yet australia has little to NO problems with gun control.. so they go on about it being a constitutional right to bare arms..but where does it say in that right its okay to kill people??? Yet they carry on about us???? pffttt
JIMMYx2xTIMES said:
I totally agree. I’m Aussie and my wife is American and we live here in Australia for that very reason. When I lived in the US I had some nut covered in blood come at me with a knife after he had stabbed 4 people to death in our building. I haven’t ever had anything close to that happen to me here in Australia.
ohpuhleeease said:
I know nobody in Australia who owns a gun. And that's just the way I like it. We are a peaceful nation with a fraction of the USA's violence. But don't forget - we're a cultural backwater!!
JayTee said:
I think you'll find the problem is that most Australians don't know who or what this 'blackface' character is you all keep referring to. You see... that's because that was American racist african-american stereotyping of the pre-Hollywood shows and earlier Hollywood era. Well you know what... the Aussies weren't there for that! You all hold onto it because it is your racist past and you feel you need act offended by it. I'm sure the image exists in Oz but it carries no racist history and is long forgotten. Just like when one commentator said 'whiteface' is not offensive as it has no history... well 'blackface' has no history there either. So when the audience (the majority of whom would have been born in the 60's or much later) saw a bunch of guys with black makeup on they didn't think 'blackface'... they thought "Hey aren't they doing the Jackson 5? Didn't those guys have dark skin and frizzy hair? Well I guess they'd better put on some makeup and a wig then". That's why Aussies aren't getting all the hubbub... they understand what racism is... but the image of 'blackface' (whatever that might be... you talk about him like he is a person) has no racist background.
Oscar said:
Can Harry Connick Jnr then please explain this appearance on MadTV.
Not only is he a hypocrite he is a true wanker!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooKaCbMvaZ0
USAgirlNAustralia said:
: ) OSCAR!!! GOOD ON YA MATE!
DMF said:
So yeah, in our aussie culture that is in no way offensive. In case you have not noticed Australia is one of the most multi-cultural nations in the world.
I understand that people in other nations may be offended by this, so if you are stay away and keep your comments to yourself.
Down here lots of people find things in your country and culture offensive but we just deal with it.
AUSSIE PRIDE!!
range0604 said:
Are we seriously suggesting that we cannot refer to black people as 'black'- it is as if this reference has been redefined as a racially offensive term rather than the descriptor that it is. Of course, context is the first thing to go when offense is taken in such exmaples. With all due respect, the United States remains the greatest living example of hypocrisy in the history of mankind !! On the one hand, to take offense so readily at any politically correct or even incorrect 'black' reference to your African-American citizens and yet to continue to abuse, neglect, discriminiate, segregate and racially villify your very citizens in your own 'land of the free' backyard...take a closer look at your racial myopia America and perhaps then your own television culture!!! Good grief !!!!
http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/08/video-harry-connick-jr-does-blackface-too/
To think dressing up in blackface could even been seen as being racist is just pathetic rubbish. This whole issue has nothing to do with racism... the fact is Americans are so disgusted, embarassed and hashamed of there history they just dont wont to be reminded about it. Oh and by the way, the TV station that put this to air has been inundated with messages of support from wait for it... the Aboriginal community. That's right, they dont find it insulting.
bojax said:
this will all be forgotting about in a day or two!!!!!!!!
Carolom said:
1996 this skit was done?
How great to know that 13 years later his attitude has matured and is now speaking out against the minstrel type paraodying of Black people.
Rather than see this as hypocricy I see it as how insight EVOLVES and people make different choices as the GROW UP.
Well done Harry..thanks for posting this clip Oscar and demonstrating how someone can become a spokesperson against the very thing they did in their own ignorance at a much younger age.
ladida said:
'at a much younger age'? please...he was 29...he knew what he was doing. he's just doing a bit of back-peddaling now.
and isn't it funny that he's brought about his own bad publicity now, as this skeleton has come out of his closet.
ohpuhleeease said:
It's called being a hypocrite, Carolom. Actually Harry defended his parody yesterday - he did NOT speak out against it.
aussie rob said:
you have no right to be critcal considering what your constituion allows for ' ie nazis have the right to protest at the mall in washington "" free speech "" . sounds like we have more than you do . but then again you do do sendups of everyone on saturday night live , ie presidental canditites and so forth.before battacking us why dnt you clan up your own backyard .
Zaffie said:
Hi Kyra,
I am a descendant of convicts who were sent to Australia. One of my relatives was sent to what was called "van diemen's land" in the old days for stealing a loaf of bread to feed her family! Australia has lived with this tag from the British since then. We are told we are nothing but a pack of thieving convicts!
I have visited your country and loved it!!! I loved every single person I met. I visited the southern states and the west coast! I found the ignorance just between those states to be very sad! And I have been told by Americans that it also happens in the other states. People apparantly in the Northern states still think Southerners are all cowboys that ride horses to work.
Australia IS NOT a backwards country as you may have everyone to believe. We may be more aware of what happens in this world than you may believe. I found it offensive when I was there that Americans STILL believe Australians all live in the Outback in shacks with Koalas and Kangaroos for pets. I also had a conversation with Americans about how our troops were all together fighting a common enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan. They had no idea. Alot of people I met didn't even know where Australia was!!!! You may tell us to look at American history and become more aware of it, well maybe you should do the same!
And I don't believe the act itself that offended you, just how they had their skin painted. I don't think it would of mattered whether they had it painted black, brown, or white. It still would have been found offensive.
ohpuhleeease said:
Zeffie, I have been to the deep South also. And one girl in a Denny's didn't know where Australia was!! HUH??? And they are NO less bigoted than Australians - in fact, I feel, much more.
Jason (Aussie and Proud) said:
I agree the comedy sketch was tasteless given the international views on such visual costumes but please let us understand that these men were portraying the Jacksons whom are BLACK. It was not intended to be racialially insulting in any way shape or form and I think that is clear to anyone. Australians are not racial by nature, with exceptions of-course as with every antion. Here in Australia we did not kidnap and use blacks as slaves, beating and torturing them and we do not have a blacks vs whites culture. Here in Australia we have not grown up living through the racial tensions that Americans have experienced and thus such a sketch is not as insulting here in Australia as it would be in America. I think some common sense needs to be applied by all other nations that are smashing Aussies because of one simple yet dumb comedy sketch. As many others have mentioned in this blog, such racial comedy is widely used in America by performers such as Eddy Murphy and in England on shows such as Little Brittain where one man dresses as an obese black woman. Why are these acts not widely condemed? seriously, get a grip people and worry about something far more important. When pouinting the racial finger at Australians all Americans must first fix the extreme racial problems in their own back yard..
RiceCrackers said:
the Jacksons skin colour is actually brown. not the colour of boot polish.
some of the members of this group were Indian, so they really had no need to use any colouring at all.
its the symbolism of it all and it harks back to the B&W minstrels of early last century during a time of overt racism and segregation.
I amazed at how few people in this country get it. I guess education isnt what it used to be.
gitalyfe said:
Hey just a thought .. I think the reason this might of blown up out of all proportion is because of quick thinking oportunism.
Was Harry thinking .. hey hey ...I'm back in a country that hasn't heard of me for a long time .. heres my chance to self promote ... after all I was gonna be on the show anyway .. so lets go.
Is Harry the White Kanye ..OMG .. Me a white person disrespecting another white person ... is that racist too ?
ladida said:
Haha well he has lost a lot of fans in Aus because of his hypocrisy now, what with him imitating a black preacher, yet kicking up a stink over this. Just check out the youtube video, so many Aussies are commenting and have turned on him.
ohowy said:
Americans need to stop bombing everyone and lose some weight.
Jason (Aussie and Proud) said:
The more of Kyra's comments I read the more ridiculous I find this woman. I guess everyone who has access to a PC has access to an opinion and we all know how much Americans love to give an opinion on everyone else. All the while it is America with the terrible history and America that makes all the comedy whoops I mean racist movies of whites playing jews playing blacks playing god knows who.. If I am doing a comedy sketch about a member of the Jackson family I will paint my face black... WHY? Because they are fkn black for god sake. If Germain jackson did a sketch about bill clinton he would paint his face white.. My goodness... Racial accusations are only delivered by racists or those creating the tension...
I can't believe this simple comedy sketch has received such wide attention from so many fools with a computer and a stupid opinion or should I say a big mouth. Are all bloggers just morons that want to be famous so they create public reported opinion to create attention to themself? Yes I think so...
Jaypee said:
Well Said
Get over it said:
Harry started it let him finish it, his words from a radio interview this afternoon Harry Connick Jr has said he was surprised but not upset by the sketch.
"I had no idea I was going to be a part of it," he told Fairfax Radio Network.
"I have absolutely no hard feelings and I'm not even upset, but I felt I had a responsibility to respond."
so there you have it from the Harry himself now lest see what happens next case closed i think?
ruddiga said:
Thats true, however the annoying thing about all this, is that he has truely fucked up what was supposed to be a celebration of Australian tellie. He had his chance on Red Faces, and gave it a zero. Why the need for an apology from Daryl? I think his behaviour on a foreign television show was a disgrace. Go to Dubai and eat pork and drink beer on the beach an see what happens. Just another typical Yank with a small brain and big mouth. Complete wanker, he should apologise for pissing the majority of Australian's off. 3.97 million people watched last night, might harm his record sales.....
Shannon said:
I completely agree with you ruddiga!!
ohpuhleeease said:
YUP!!
Chief82 said:
Kyra,
I think you need to open your mind to the world a little bit more. There are big differenced between Australia and the ol' USA and i am happy for that every day. You said it's ok for Hollywood to use makeup to make someone "act" a different race, well, the boot polish is their makeup, these are ametures on a low budget, this was not any hollywood blockbuster.
Another main difference between Australia and the USA is that in Australia, skin colour doesn't matter, but in the USA you only say it doesn;t matter. This is clear in the offence taken by Americans. This is why Darryl Summers and the rest of the pannel and audience laughed and didn't see a problem, because simply, its a non issue in Australia. No one saw race, al we say was a skit about the Jackson 5. I think you and America need to get off your high hourse and learn to laugh at what you see and not look so deep into things.
I think it is quite racist to try and get Australia and Australians to change their culture and comedy to suit the American closed mineded ways, By the way, there was only 1 white male dressed as a black man, the rest were Indian and Lebenese.
No point letting the truth get in the way of a good story ey.
ladida said:
Exactly! It IS a non issue here in Aus, that's why we have taken it for what it is - a funny comedy sketch!
aussie said:
I wouldn't exactly say its a non issue in Australia.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/08/2707994.htm
I am an Aussie and couldn't believe it when I saw it. Australia is on the whole a very tolerant and educated society but our TV networks well....
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s2692254.htm
deb may said:
I don't know this has turned into an Australian versus American culture debate. Many Australians are as horrified by this skit as many Americans are. At the end of the day, regardless of the absence of any malicious intent, the skit is widely considered to be offensive. What right do white people have to get up on their soapbox and tell black people that they are over-reacting? It has caused offense. The Hey Hey team should have known how inappropriate it was given it had been on once before. I'm beginning to think they did it for the publicity - I'm finding it hard to believe that they could really have been so ignorant to think it was acceptable. And Chief82, the Jackson Jive weren't black, so I don't see how being Lebanese or Indian makes it more acceptable.
ladida said:
'The Hey Hey team should have known how inappropriate it was given it had been on once before'
That's the point, it had been on before and didn't cause a problem, wasnt't seen as 'inappropriate'...they weren't expecting people to react this way this time around
ohpuhleeease said:
The Jackson 5 weren't black? How about Whitney Houston? Beyonce? HUH?
ohpuhleeease said:
I mean the Jackson Jive weren't black? Most of them were. ??
Get over it said:
get ready for round two this one will make Hey Hey look like a picnic http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/tv/john-safran-disguises-himself-as-a-black-man-for-second-episode-of-new-abc-tv-show-race-relations/story-e6frf9ho-1225784316225
ohowy said:
@Jason. You make a good point, but you forgot to mention that up until 6 months ago Americans were still kidnapping people and torturing them. Oh yeah, that right, cause this time it wasnt racist. These days they are only arab.
And Americans still try to take the moral high ground and lecture the world on how to behave!!
Breathtaking.
Nick C said:
Have a go at your hero Harry Conick Jnr in this video. Admittedly he is not in black face, but i think there is little doubt as to what is being impersonated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPAsLMqRcqs
Talk about the pot calling the kettle *cough* black.
FROSCH said:
if this yankee hadn't been on the show, everyone would had a laugh about a silly joke and would get on with it.
but because of this hypocrite ....
(ooh, he was SO funny in his MadTV sketch)
and what's next, we are not allowed to make jokes about fat people, jews, minorities...........
bojax said:
gerson said:
How dare you calling them "Stupid", FYI they are all medical professions who probably have saved all race of people! I can guarantee they have certainly saved more people than you!
Firstly, HHIS is not meant to be an international entity. Just because a hypocritical comment was made by Harry Connick Jur (who also acted as a black preacher before) doesn't meant we or the act was meant to be racist.
FYI - i personally dislike the show, because it is not funny!!
The historical culture of HHIS is just getting average Joe to perform silly act, and usually they are poorly dressed and applied silly makeup.
There is nothing funny about the show because i found their performance are usually meaningless and talentless.
However i will rigorously defend the performing act because it fits perfectly to that silly culture of the show. If you didn't know the person who painted white was an INDIAN and his friends were Lebanese and Italian and others!!!
Seriously, this is one type of our Aussie humor and if you don't understand it, i'm sorry. But please don't mis-interpret the act and amplifying your own opinions to the others.
Lastly, Harry Connick Jnr is a hypocrite with double standards.
Check out here: http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/hey-hey-harry-connick-jnr/2009/10/08/1254701095637.html
TJ said:
I'm an Anglo Australian and i personally didn't find the skit offensive nor did I find it that funny either but that's beside the point. I can however understand how people could be offended. I agree with Kyra about the Wayan brothers white chicks movie and the other examples of black people putting white make-up on being not the same thing. And those arguing about HCJ doing the black preacher sketch being the same thing are kinda missing the point why people have been offended, if these guys had put make-up on to make them look african american (eg. like HCJ does in his sketch) it would be a non issue and no one would've cared (and if they would then thats another story). People have been offended because these guys have put the pitch black "boot pollish" make up on which is incensitive to the racist behaviour black people had to deal with during the earlier days of hollywood and tv. There's a big diffence to the 'boot pollish black face make up' and the 'brown dark skinned make up' HCJ used in his sketch to give him an african american appearance. And if you fail to see the significant difference between these then I guess you won't understand why people have been offended.
However people should not take the silly dancing as an immitation ofthe minstrel acts of the past, as anyone who knows this show will tell you that people go on to make fun of themselves and act stupid. They couldve been impersonating anyone and they wouldve look like 'baffoons.'
Lastly I don't think this act was racist in its intent and Kyra doesn't say that in her original post so maybe she feels the same as me, but although these guys weren't themselves being racist they were being incensitive and innapropriate about racial issues so they may deserve a slap in the face and a wake up call from their ignorance but they don't deserve the 'racist' label slapped on them.
Shannon said:
Kyra, get over yourself and stop whinging. This is an Australian TV show aimed at Australian viewing. We don't do things here just to please your self obsessed country. You are just causing an argument for the sake of it. It was a funny sketch on a funny show. If you don't like it, you shouldn't watch it. Stick to your own TV shows instead. And what a hypocrite Harry Connick Jnr is!!
ladida said:
That is really well said!
jake1989 said:
Agreed.. I've read alot of the stuff written on this blog, and this is all just rubbish.
all i have to say is if people dont understand australian humour then dont watch it. We are not racists, that clip wasnt racist. People who see a problem are the racists, because they see race.. In australia we care more about your attitude towards our country and our values, than the colour of your skin.. And believe it or not we can have a laugh about things.. Maybe if you moronic yanks could follow suit instead of blowing up your own buildings and killings millions of people around the world, maybe then you'd have a chance at redemption and normal life.
kezza said:
Hi Kyra, i think you need to visit Australia, Australian aren't racist, so something on the show like this, we just find humour out of it, Australian don't see the difference in a colour. All colour are equal. American need to learn to get along with each other, before judging other countries and what there do. Come Down and visit Australia, ill know you'll love it.
The Hip Hop Democrat said:
WoW! So much FIRE in here. The way I see it, this video was satirical comedy...a public display, mimicking conversations that go on all around the world everyday. Just because it happens, its accepted, and its tolerated doesn't mean its right. It sure doesn't mean the individuals involved get a pass, ignorance is not always bliss. If the video clearly belittles, disrespects, and offends anyone why wouldn't they have a right to voice their opinion, not watching the video isn't gonna make it disappear. Whether American, Australian, Native American, Black, White, Green, or anything else....The only thing that will allow us to coexist is RESPECT, give it, get it, and live it!
Wombat said:
First this was not a video it was live to air as hey hey was for 17 years,what gets me is 99% of aussies like me dident find it offensive or racist i mean struth the 3 men & a Dingo who did find it racist has now been expanded to 200MILL yanks thanks to the perpiration of the video on sites like this & others somtimes its better to listen & learn....than to speak and be thought of a fool
Wombat said:
PS i take offence to be called a RACIST i hate everybody
cheeky745 said:
LOL
johnno said:
haahahahahahahahahahahahaha, thats a good one
ceri said:
The majority of Australians are appalled that something like this was allowed to air. What perplexes me is that most Australian's defending the 'we are not racist' claim seem to think that it's our sense of humour you don't get and that it was a harmless skit. It wasn't harmless and that is NOT our sense of humour.
We do have a fascination with peoples heritage because we all come from somewhere else and that interest can come across as rude to people not used to us. It is normal to be asked in Australia 'where do you come from' and that can offend.
To the comments on here and on other sites about Anglo Australia's treatment of the indigenous populations - you're right, but we're working on it, we have a new government who's first official act of parliament was to say sorry to the Stolen Generation. It was a big step forward and I encourage you to look up the protests against the previous government that many of us were part of.
I'm really sorry that anyone who hasn't met an Australian or been here thinks that we are really like this. We are a vibrant, multicultural place and one of the best places in the world be in.
ohpuhleeease said:
Ceri, speak for yourself. Not for the "majority" (as if you'd know).
Bronson said:
Ceri, move to another country. You are a pathetic waste of Australia's resources.
It WAS a harmless skit, and it most definetly IS our sense of humour. There were no ill intentions and if someone is going to cry over some shoe polish then I'm sure they are just weak and will look for any reason to bring up their colour and background.
I'm willing to bet money that most of the people complaining were never slaves themselves. They've had it easy, their ancestors did all the hard yards and paved the way for them. Instead of whining like a bunch of spoilt brats, harden up and do something productive.
kiwibob said:
Nobody appears to have noticed a far less ambiguous “is this racist or not?” moment from the show.
I just posted on this here….
http://notesfromthebartender.wordpress.com/2009/10/08/hey-hey-whats-racist/
Look at the last video from those three…. in all the subsequent furore, that line of Somers appears to have been forgotten
tonydelk said:
good catch bob. Daryl Somers really is an idiot.
Bronson said:
Also as a note I work in sales and have brought up Hey Hey with quite a few customers of differing age and race. So far I have yet to meet ANYBODY that found it offensive. They all think that Harry is a big sook. I hope he is never welcomed onto an Aussie tv show again. I wish I could say what I really think of him but I'm sure the language is prohibited.
RiceCrackers said:
I'm an Australian and have lived here all my life and even I know that "black face" is racially offensive. I feel embarrassed that this regressive television show was allowed to go to air and surprised at the number of news.com.au readers that said it wasn't offensive. The symbolism may have been lost on some here, but only the young could really use that as an excuse.
This kind of humor isnt funny at all.
BHaaring said:
Well personally i thought it was hilarious. i am Australian and i have black friends who thought it was funny as well.
Racial humour is what a lot of comedians and comedic acts rely upon, so why does the world react so bad when there was one skit with blackfaces? the person acting as micheal jackson had an indian background.
if harry thought it was racist well he can stay in his own country. Jokes can be made about anything, so stop crying and get a sense of humour you girls.
By the way, what do you call a black man in a car? A thief hahaha. Stop whining you girls.
greatblue said:
I'd like to respond to LTLM. "Intent" has nothing to do with getting off the hook for being racist--white Southerners genuinely believed that it was A-OK to enslave Africans, just as that crew on Hey Hey It's Saturday thought it was A-OK to put on blackface and do a skit about the Jackson Five. And no, it wasn't funny: It was racist. It wasn't humorous--unless you find humor in white guys putting on blackface and pretending to be a black singing group.
Read the blogs on the Daily Telegraph today (Australia) and be truly horrified. It's the same attitude you present, only less intelligently stated. Time and again these (white) Australians say, "Nobody INTENDED offense," as if it follows that therefore there was no offense. Racism comes from ignorance, and Australians are ignorant. What's the difference between racist from ignorance and racism with intent? I would suggest that there is no difference, because the effect is the same.
I grew up in the American South in a white liberal family--my father was a social worker and we had crosses burned on our lawn (courtesy of the John Birch Society, still alive and well today) because my father worked to help black people in the 1950s and 1960s. He and my mother taught me that all people, regardless of color, are my brothers and sisters, and that has given me great value and richness to my life because I believe it, what my parents taught me. Parents in Australia do not teach this to their children.
The first law passed in Australia was the whites-only law: They passed the Federation in 1902, then passed the whites-only law. It stood until 1969. It was legal to discriminate against everyone who wasn't white, and believe me--Australian history--they did. And do.
This skit on Channel Nine was blatant racism. There is no excuse for it, and it is educational to read the blogs here in Australia (Daily Telegraph) from these right-wing, hard-core racists claiming in their bad grammar and misspellings was harmless fun. Mind you, hours after this story broke the Sydney Morning Herald ran on its front page a video of Harry Connick Jr in blackface, to denigrate any moral authority Mr Connick had acquired last night on TV. So much for the Australian media, eh?
I live in Australia and I view this country as institutionally racist, like South Africa. It should be boycotted. Aboriginal people in this country are denigrated. They have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world: that's a fact. They have one of the lowest life expentency rates in the world: also a fact. What does that tell you about white Australians?
It's time to stand up and take a stand against Australia, and I reckon now is as good a time as ever. It didn't happen during the Olympics, when the opportunity first arose, but now is as good a time as ever. Is there anyone out there who's willing and able to start organizing a campaign against Australia for its racist policies and history? Let's do some good and force this country to fix these oppressed people.
My name's Peter Heron and I can be reached on heron_peter@hotmail.com
RiceCrackers said:
the issue with Aboriginal people is more complex, i'm not sure how well you understand this.
Aboriginal people living in urban areas have a much better life expectancy than those living in the remote communities on their native title land. being Aboriginal does not mean a shorter life.
the reason for the poor life expectancy in those government funded communities is largely due to kidney diseases etc that dont get treated in time due to the remoteness of the areas.
there is a strong argument that native title and welfare housing has actually contributed to the breakdown of these communities. by providing exclusive land for the indigenous peoples has isolated them further from the benefits of modern society such as education and medical care. the burnout rate for teachers and doctors in those areas is very high due to the dangers and lawlessness experienced on heritage land. the 'intervention' is a desperate attempt to save the children from the cycle of despair, however i believe removing the incentive for staying in these areas by providing welfare which ultimately is squandered on various vices is the only solution long term.
RiceCrackers said:
ie what i meant was removing the welfare
pedge said:
thank god someone that's giving a bit more intelligent insight. the aboriginal situation is no doubt still an issue and has it's problems but its not simply a matter of racism and segregation, our past meant that a (our) conflicting culture was forced onto a land inhabited by people of a vastly different culture and that divide is still present today. It is contradistinctively diverse from the racial situation America has more or less brought itself out of as though the two races were divided, ultimately (now correct me if i'm wrong but i'm fairly sure if this) both races wanted to live and progress to the same ends, i.e. advance in the world that our common western civilisation functions in. Thus once racial division was broken down all could live harmoniously as one people (obviously the problem isn't entirely fixed but you get the point). In Australia however many aboriginal societies still are conflicted where their culture is suffocated by the imposing culture most Australians function in. The disrespect of our ancestors have left us in a very difficult situation; we cannot simply get up and leave now, it would be an injustice to Australians who are innocent of their ancestors sins. Yet it is a difficult task to accomodate the true aboriginal culture whilst maintaining our own. Many aborigines are accepting and embracing the western culture yet that is not to say all should or shouldn't. Sadly, many Aborigines escape the conflict through alcohol or find themselves in communities suffering from a hybrid of remoteness and consumerism capitalisation. Furthermore there is an uneeded amount of ignorance and a distasteful stroke of racism amongst some in the community however actions are constantly being taken to heal this unfortunate predicament. However how many seem to view it it is not, excuse the pun, all black and white.
ohpuhleeease said:
Well spoken pedge.
ohpuhleeease said:
Well spoken. If anything the government welfare and services, housing, has whittled away at the aboriginal's sense of worth, thus alienating them more. It's a sad and deeply troubling issue that's not as simple as "we don't help them enough". The violence is terrifying and even policemen won't work in those communities. It seems everything is blamed on white people, as usual.
cheeky745 said:
You are the ignorant person Peter! Why are you living here?? Go back to your country if Australia (in your mind) is such a horrible place that does nothing but suppress anyone who is not of ethical standards in our minds. You are pathetic trying to organise a boycott of this country what a crack up. You will find majority of our tourists are NOT America so big deal. How long have you lived here and how long did it take you to google the information you just posted?? LOL Sorry about the burning crosses in your yard back home in America....something we have NEVER experienced here in Australia. Is it not enough having the countries that hate you already that you need to keep adding more countries to completely isolate America? It is comments like yours based on utter crap that create wars and hatred among Nations. You sound like the racist Peter.
rys from oz said:
This is a lot more blunt than my reply. Good stuff! Peter the ball is in your court sunshine! But, before you go let's have a beer and talk about it. I don't want you going home too pissed off!
rys from oz said:
Oh Peter! Peter! Peter! Just reading into your heartfelt blog gives a great insight into your psyche. I think that its time you walked out of your University lecture room and really had a good hard look at what is really going on in the rural areas of Australia. My brother in law was Aboriginal. He commented many times how he was very uncomfortable about the way his kin lived in the rural areas. The issues are very complex but let me say this. You have taken up residency in Australia. As I see it you have two choices: be proactive and do something constructive for our indigenous brethren rather than preaching or return to whence you came from. Many times my mother complained about Australia and I said it straight: "If you don't liek it here so much then return to your land of origin". She is still here! Hmmmmmm makes me wonder!!
ruddiga said:
Hi Peter.
Firstly, you are a fuckwit and your argument is based on total shite. Your from the south my friend? Did your parents teach you about Jefferson Davis? And the white only law? So what fuckhead this is a country that united in 1902. You fought for your independence against the British in the last half of the 18th century. And to say it was abolished in 1969. Funny, you still segregated Negro's in this decade. You compare us to South Africa. Fuck off you dog cunt. Australians have not rounded up Aboriginals into shanties and systematically murdered them. And Aboriginies having a low life expectancy? True mate, but this is a race that rapes their own young, and up until only decades ago canibilised their own babies. Stand up and against Australia? You sound like you need a round through the back of your head my friend. You idiot, posting your email address. I am sure the AFP will enjoy looking at you. Seriously mate, you have entered dangerous territory here. To threaten Australia on a public blogging site with your email address is SHTUPID. Live in fear Peter.
cheeky745 said:
lol put in a pretty direct way. I too think the AFP would be interested at seeing Peters post. I am nearly posivite it is against the law to pubicly call up a group to rise against any country...hmmm thinking he may be in a bit of hot water.
Zaffie said:
You want a boycott for your own country? Real clever. Maybe you should go back to America!
ohpuhleeease said:
They have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world: that's a fact. They have one of the lowest life expentency rates in the world: also a fact. What does that tell you about white Australians?
Partially due to the STD's that are rampant in aboriginal community, partily due to the high drug and alcohol use (yes, affecting babies also), poor hygiene, lack of vaccinations (albiet improving) diabetes, killings, and poor nutrition and many other complex problems. And not for lack of health services or government funding either. An enormous amount of work and money seems to be fruitlessly poured into our indigenous population. White Australians are paying lots of taxes for these people to spend their welfare cheques on alcohol - evidence based.
ohpuhleeease said:
NB The first paragraph in my previous post was a quote from greatblue - who does not reflect my views.
RiceCrackers said:
well apart from the 300 000 or so indigenous people that live here, Australia is a nation of immigrants.
cultural or racial insensitivity has no place in our society, our work place...there are laws which prohibit it...so why should it be on television?
some of the defenders of this lame production have said it wasnt intended for American audiences..well WTF...believe it or not there are some Afro-Americans living in Australia.
ohpuhleeease said:
If Afro-Americans are living in Australia and watching Australian tv, then I regard them as an Australian audience (by and large). I watch American satire aimed at Aussies and can't do a damned thing about it.
FenceSitter said:
Harry did what he thought was morally right. Five guys of multi - cultural background re-enacted a skit they did 20 yrs ago, admittedly in bad taste considering the whole racist thing. Daryl appologised to Harry for it and Harry accepted, even stating that he would love to come back on the show if it were to air again.
Tonight I watched the skit that Harry did as a reverend on TV stating that he was playing a white evangelist yet in the clip his skin has been (pardon me here for possible wrong use of the word) colored. You take offence to this, ok. But you don't seem to take into account that in recent films Americans have enjoyed MJ being portrayed in films as hiding in childrens rooms (Scary movie 3 I think it was ) and laughed out loud about it. You in a small part agreed with Nessa-lee I think it was saying Aussies are narrow minded by telling to get up and tell it. In recent years australia has tried to move forward, we have one of the largest cultural diversities in the world. yet in a few american movies over the years australia has been portrayed as a country of thieves and idiots (simpson's mainly). We don't jump up and down blogging the net, even when there were picket signs and strife over an american director using australian film crews over american ones in Australia. (Matrix I believe). Bottom line we all make mistakes, even the men invovled in the whole skit have appologised. This whole argument has gone to far.
misguided said:
Whats racist about colouring ones skin black to portray the Jackson Five? Why should Australians have to bend to Americas moral beliefs, derived from Americas past? What exactly from their act did you find racist?
mannie1121 said:
The pattern here is plain to see. Australians cannot take criticism. They can be as insensitive as they can to other races (all under the guise of humour), but the moment you criticise their actions, they will respond with insults about your countries past and present history, even your race and culture. Take two examples this year – attacks on Indian people living in Australia. Many responses on news blogs were “Indians have no right to complain, they have a caste system”. True, they do, but does that make it all right? The Michael Jackson skit – immediate responses regarding Americans history against black people, starting wars, being over-weight etc etc. They cannot argue their point in a calm mature manner and their responses on blogs, such as this one and many others (in Australia) prove this. It makes you feel that many Australians are arrogant, racist and have the mentality of a school child. Australia can have a place on the world stage, but it will be and must be a long time before they can be taken seriously and have the respect of a world player.
cheeky745 said:
This is the reason why America is not liked by Majority of Nations in the world. Don't for one second think you are all highly educated, non-racial, non-arrogant nor childish. Your comments reflect each and every one of them. Sorry that people reminding you that it is YOUR issue in YOUR country that gets the racial tempers flaring.
cheeky745 said:
Also don't think I hate all Americans, I don't. My Grandfather and cousins are American and live there. What I dislike is the majority (not all) of Americans who think everything revolves around your country and you guys are this big world leader that has the power to control everyone....sorry but the lack of wordly education that you teach in the schools over there proves that your knowledge of other countries is limited. The world to you guys is America.
JIMMYx2xTIMES said:
Let’s talk about Australia being taken as a serious world player. Out of the G20 countries the only one that didn’t go into recession because of the GFC. Over the past 12 months has experienced economic growth and is now raising interest rates because of the strength of our economy. Signed the Kyoto protocol and is leading the world on an Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS). US is the only country not to sign Kyoto. Has had free health care for ALL its citizens for decades. Has a murder rate of 1 per 100 000 a year compared to 6.9 per 100 000 a year as in the USA. Does NOT have the death penalty. The US has executed or exonerated over 100 people on death row since 1976 that later on were found to be innocent. Australia doesn’t violate human rights by holding people in cages for years without a trial and a justice system i.e. Guantanamo. Australians didn’t re-elect George Bush. You say we need time before we can be taken seriously. I don’t usually get personal in these debates but seriously, you are a McIdiot!
rys from oz said:
Ooooooo that was a bit catty! We love criticism - we thrive on it. But you know what my friend we don't start imposing our way of life on others. You ask any child in my class about American and they know so much about the place it is frightening. I had the opportunity to teach some American kids about Australia and they were astounded as to the size, climates and standard of living we have. In fact many asked me what language did we speak in Australia. And that was a question from High School students. Now you tell me how can we take Americans seriously when they try to be the big players on the world stage and are so ignorant of one of its staunchest allies.
Here is a history lesson for you my friend mannie1121. After WW1 the League of Nations was established as a result of President Wilson's 14 points. Point stated:
"XIV. A general association of nations must be formed under specific covenants for the purpose of affording mutual guarantees of political independence and territorial integrity to great and small states alike." This was the League of Nations. It failed! Why? Because America did not become a member. Between the wars America became isolasionist. This of course increased their ignorance of the rest of the world especially the political machinations. WW2 started and still Americans wanted not to get involved with world affairs. That is until December 7th 1941. Even though America was the bastion of democracy they still did not try to understand that not everybody thinks like them. MacArthur in the Pacific had no time for the Australian Troops. But it was the Australians on the Kokoda Track in New Guinea who were the first to halt the advance of the seemingly invincible Imperial Japanese Army. But all credit went to the US armed forces. History has shown that many times Americans are unstoppable once embarking on a crusade. But, they do lack any idea of the local customs of the indigenous peoples that they come in contact with. So mannie don't come the raw prawn and say we can't take criticism. We just can't take crap from ignorant isolationist individuals (such as yourself) who tend to portray themselves as being superior to others. Now that is a form of racism too. Keep smiling!!!
ohpuhleeease said:
Funny, mannie....I thought it was the Americans who were being ridiculously precious here. And arrogant.
And I don't like being portrayed as living in a backwater, or living in the past, or of living in a country with kangaroos hopping down the main street - and many many more comments made only today by our lovely American friends. You guys started it - not us. This was a Australian show - so lump it! Now....speaking of respect for another country....
Anaeline said:
Also 79% of the 215 people, who posted comments at news.com.au believed the skit was OK, among these Aussie performers-professional doctors two were of Indian and and one of Lebanese ethnic backgrounds.
However, I am hardly wondering at Australian cultural diversity:
http://mkwrk2.instablogs.com/entry/danish-talent-australian-footprint/
http://willy2000.instablogs.com/entry/in-search-for-perfectness/
Anaeline
Lawz said:
I know I'm speaking for the overwhelming majority here. There are, of course, exceptions but magnitudes away from you guys.
As an Australian, you guys have a chip on your shoulders. We never did enslave black africans here. We are not dealing with generations of african americans who were screwed by US society in the past (and in some cases presently I'm sure). If this show was in the US with your racial problems, I'd understand - but it's in Australia. We have risen above it and are happily multicultural.
If the performers where actually black, would it be racist? Guess what? They were! Not african black, but India black.
We dont have a problem with satire like this because it's not racist. It's a parody on the Jackson 5 and Michael Jackson's change in skin colour.
I know you guys have issues with skin colour. We dont. We like any coloured skin here. We judge you based on your character.
I'd suggest you look at your own society's sickness. You have a disease. You look at others saying "aha - black face performer. It's part of our racist disease, so you must have the racist disease too". Think again morons. We dont.
cheeky745 said:
Well said.
rys from oz said:
Mate couldn't agree with you more. As I mentioned in my blog - Americans are great people but awfully screwed up with image and opinion. sadly the majority in the States are sick of political correctness as well but get howled down by the minority groups. Sad really - no freedom of speech in the land of the free!
guest said:
Kyra's already said she accepts that not one country is inherently racist as a whole. And slavery did exist in Australia. In Queensland to be exact. But then if it did exist in Australia it would've had to have been Queensland....
And that's if you forget that, while the treatment of Aboriginies wasn't outright slavery, the limitations placed on their way of life and ability to self-determine how they would live it were a defacto form of slavery.
And to those who've stated in various forums over the last few days that Australia has never had a racial/civil war. That's because what happened in Australia was even worse. We declared the people who were living here first to not even be people. Terra Nullius. Remember that from your school books?
rys from oz said:
You know I love visiting your country. It is beautiful and diverse as is Australia. But that is where the similarity ends.
Not once as an Australian did I impose my views or values on your folks but here we have an American (as well as yourself "These Aussie idiots need to get back in the time machine and join us here in 2009") telling us how we should react to what was purely a send up of a very public family who have done some odd and extraordinary things and it becomes racist. What a lot of kangaroo poo!!!
I went to Chicago and was told so many Polish jokes it seemed that I had a bulls eye tatooed on my forehead. You see my parents are Poles. In the good old US of A I was subjected to that sort of humour. I laughed and saw the funny side and even joined in making fun of myself!!!!!! Why? Because here in the land of Oz we still do laugh at ourselves and not take things too seriously.
Which then leads me to my point. What a pack of hypocrites you lot have turned out to be. You can't laugh at youselves. You can't use the word black, red, pink, yellow without it offending someone. Once we could use the word gay because we were happy but thanks to you lot we can't use that word because it will offend someone. Oh my! For heaven's sake America - toughen up. Take a good look at yourselves and realise that the world is not moulded in your image. Or are you people now divine as well as wise? (Judging by your comments there is very little room to debate that point.)
I now point out your movies which are thinly veiled as art. The swearing and nudity that projects itself from the screen. Then listen to the lyrics of your songs. The antics of your performers at the MTV Awards. Give me a break! The suggestiveness of the lyrics and explicit immagery in the film clips is to be seen to be believed.
So America (and Kyle)- before you take the moral high ground look in your own backyard. Don't start moralising to us what we should think and do. Remember we may speak the same language but culturally, historically and socially we are different. Pay us a visit as see for yourself. Hey! I'll even buy you a wine/beer and a meal to show you how nice we really are.
And finally, I do love you blokes even though you speak funny. Oooops! Am I allowed to say that?
cheeky745 said:
I agree completely...I just got back from a 3mth vist my 4th time over there. I love it there and always get asked pretty silly questions about Australia and get joked at but I laugh right along. Though the line is crossed when they start attacking our culture, history and Australian way of life. Letting loose accusations as harsh as they do which makes me think they are racial to us as Australians because racial to me is someone thinking they are better then me because of where I come from and I am only second class which is what most Americans do of other Countries.
guest said:
That would be 'nationalism' rather than 'racism', cheeky.
Cory said:
love it rys. Hate to break it to you Kyles - but America is not the centre of the universe. Just becuase you don't like something doesn't mean the rest of the world has to follow.
guest said:
....I still enjoy a Golden Gaytime....
rys from oz said:
So do I.
OZMAN said:
Oh My Kyle!
"The Riot Act"
I have read an article that has you quoting - "big ups to [Connick Jr] for reading these clueless fools the riot act".
Hmm let me see....
The Riot Act;
It was last read on 21 January 2005, during the 2005 Belize unrest. Whilst there is no specific form of words provided for such proclamations, they must be made 'in the Queen's name'.
The provisions are formed in sections 231, 246 and 247 of the country's Criminal Code, providing particularly that:
"Any magistrate, or in the absence of any magistrate any commissioned officer in Her Majesty's Naval, Military or Air Force Service or any police officer above the rank of inspector, in whose view a riot is being committed, or who apprehends that a riot is about to be committed by persons being assembled within his view, may make or cause to be made a proclamation in the Queen's name, in such form as he thinks fit, commanding the rioters or persons so assembled to disperse peaceably."
Any person who does not disperse within one hour of the proclamation being read is liable to receive a maximum penalty of five years imprisonment.[6]
Dear oh dear!
There were only 6 performers on that show!
You need to find a dark corner and sit in it, shame on you for calling aussies racist! Cronulla riots, pfft that was a bunch of guys going tit-4-tat. Harden up America....
cheeky745 said:
I loved what you just wrote. Well said.
OZMAN said:
I think i have more respect for Perez Hilton than this mindless blogger. Calling people out is a weak profession and should be frowned upon, we are taught something crucial in our early years here in Australia, If you have a problem with some one you 'Man Up' and face them, dont run all over town and talk about it(in your case Kyle (The Blog). Its just WEAK!
OZMAN said:
Lacking Cultural Diversity?
Australia has the second largest population of Greeks outside of Greece itself, and that is just to mention one.
Stuart said:
As an Australian, I think there are a few things that deserve comment here. While the sketch was at the very least insensitive, particularly given the U.S. targets and judges (and the well educated performers should have known this), I feel we're being judged from a cultural, historical and comedic perspective which is entirely different from our own.
Since Australia never had had the history of hundreds of years of slavery or the belittling of African descendants with racist stereotypes in minstrel shows, there aren't the same old wounds to be opened up or the same connotations to be drawn from the skit.
In the context of this show in particular, it shouldn't really be seen as an attempt to make African-Americans look foolish or "buffoonish", but a deliberately amateurish parody of a well-known family using deliberately amateurish costumes and make-up. The bad singing, bad acting, over-the-top theatrics and so-on was just that (appropriate for a segment which derives most of its comedy value from the reaction of the judges to the dreadful performances) - not an attempt to denigrate another race.
In fact, quite a few Australians have reacted strongly to allegations of racism over the skit - there are substantial differences between Australian and American humour and applying overly-sensitive American norms to other countries smacks of cultural imperialism to many of us, and although Australians are pretty hard to offend, that's certainly one way to do it.
Of the performers, only one would be considered a "white Australian" - with Indians, Sri Lankans, Italians and Lebanese representing the remainder. Not that this makes it impossible for them to hold racist views, but they would be aware of the more light-hearted approach to race relations in Australia and not take it as seriously as someone in America, for instance.
I'm not sure tip-toeing around race as if it were the elephant in the room is really much more enlightened than seeing it as an irrelevance that is as much of a fair game the nationalities we constantly pillory in a friendly manner (such as those sheep-shagging New Zealanders or the whining Pommy bastards).
Indigenous Australian said:
Very well said Stuart!
rys from oz said:
Well put mate! And, Indigenous Australian and Stuart - you are people after my own heart.
boriswolf said:
You Americans are hilarious. A country that lives on a diet of pornography, drugs and violence is offended by a few guys in another country who painted their faces black to pay tribute to iconic black entertainers.
Well guess what, the world doesn't revolve around you. Just because you think painting your face black is racist doesn't mean it is everywhere else. In Australia, this is a light hearted innocent joke and people of any race will find it funny here. Most Aussies don't even know what blackface is, that's your own messed up creation.
hyperchokkie said:
agreed!
MrReason said:
OK, enough already. I moved to Australia five years ago after living in the UK and the US. This 'skit' is the straw that has broken the camels back. Australia doesn't have a 'light-hearted approach' to racism, it has an outdated, archaic, knuckle-draggingly boneheaded approach to racism. The reason? simple: they are racist and don't know it because they are out of touch. Let me spell it out: PAINTING A WHITE MAN IN BLACKFACE AND AFRO WIG IS PLAIN AND SIMPLE OFFENSIVE. Even if you are such a redneck that you think that because something is 'acceptable' in your country it is OK everywhere, surely you are in touch with the outside world>? I know I am. We have global TV here in Australia, broadband internet, the latest movies, access to world opinion. THERE IS NO EXCUSE PEOPLE! Either you/we are straightforwardly and wilfully ignorant, or we are a nation of racists. And;lastly, it's out and out embarrassing on a national level for our global image to be seen like this. We should be ashamed of ourselves that a terrestrial TV channel, a mainstream TV channel, can be so out of whack in it's decison-making process. Kev Rudd, speak up, please! This is not the Australia I love, it's a grotesque parody of what it used to be.
rys from oz said:
Hey Mr Reason. Whilst I accept your logic and reasoning I have one comment: Lighten up sunshine!!!! You sound like someone who has a major chip on his shoulder looking through a very narrow peep hole. It's not RACIST to send up someone based on their historical place in the performing world. This was sending up the individual (whether he/she be white, yellow, green, black or technicolour). For crying out loud these blokes are of different ethnic backgrounds too. So therefore I accuse all those crying racist as being racist themselves criticising these blokes from India, Lebanon and other dark skinned races. Shame! Shame! I think its the kettle calling the pot black here.
Kizz302 said:
Couple of things MrReason, firstly as has been repeatedly pointed out here and well publicised in Australian media, those performers bar one were not WHITE MEN.
Secondly, in a rational persons view, painting ones face in order to parody a performer that is not from the same race as you IS NOT OFFENSIVE on its own. If the INTENT of the person is to insult, then your right but in this instance you a wrong.
These people DID NOT go out to perform as minstrels, Kyra's ill informed opinion is based on them doing so.
Rather than just stating your own odd views of Australia, how about you actually back them up with FACT before abusing and insulting them?
Extremely poor post from someone who seemingly purports themselves to be holier than thou!!
If Kevin Rudd does speak up, it will only be a political move to appease the USA which will only perpetuate the world revolving around the USA myth.
Kyra Kyles said:
I appreciate the raucous debate that has taken place on this blog. And feel free to keep it going. I pride myself in responding to commenters because I do value your time and effort, even if we totally disagree. However, because I have a lot of work to do, plus a column due for tomorrow, I must withdraw from this discussion and move on.
However, I want to address the main arguments I see appearing over and over again. I did answer many, but just to make my responses to the bigger beefs crystal clear, here goes:
1. Blackface, is by definition, putting black paint/coloring on your face to imitate people who are, for the most part, not actually the color "black." It doesn't matter if you know the term or not, that is blackface. It doesn't matter if your history books do not discuss blackface. I'm sure the fool who invented it didn't have a name for it at first either, but it is still blackface.
2. This debate is not America vs Australia, though some may wish to paint it as such and that may be the approach other bloggers/media have taken. I, however, am not trying to start a culture war. I merely saw something idiotic and felt the need to comment. I didn't travel to Australia to see it, nor did I go on a blog run by Australians to vent. The viral video nature of our world makes it possible for information to spread. Those who tell me to mind my own business are hypocrites if they post on my blog to do so. This blog, like me, is based in Chicago. Guess how you saw it? The same way I saw the great blackface caper of 2009. And guess what? You commented! Imagine that...
3. I am not saying the performers are racist. I doubt they would have taken their act public if they felt they were being hateful. What I am saying is that they are ill informed, and nothing posted below changed my mind about that. So what if they are doctors or scholars? They suffered a lapse in judgement. While I cannot enforce American values and thoughts (are there such things, really?) on anyone else, I can certainly object to something that offends me. I am not Captain America, but I am a black woman who has family, friends and associates as well as non-black ones that find this kind of stuff distasteful. Racist is a strong term and should not be bandied about, including by those on this blog applying it to me and anyone else who doesn't "get" this humor.
4. America is not perfect. Yeah, I am fully aware of that and anyone who has read my previous works is aware that I take plenty of issue with things that go on in our pop culture environment as well. And again, since this isn't a country vs country discussion (unless you make it one), all points about America's crime, wars, racism and obesity are pretty much moot when it comes to this discussion. When people here do something globally stupid, I am not about to wave my flag on their behalf. But that's just me...
5. Black, in the context of this discussion, refers specifically to African Americans. Why? Because the Jackson Five are African Americans. So saying that someone of Indian heritage has the right to don the blackest skin color possible courtesy of shoe polish and somehow escape being accused of insensitivity is silly. If you have seen any photos of the Jackson 5, you know they are not that skin shade. Maybe if they had done a better makeup job, they wouldn't have come off so poorly, but guess what? They didn't, and we'll never know.
6. Harry Connick Jr. is a hypocrite, and that somehow waters down his defense against blackface. Oh, for reals? Take it up with that man. I don't work for him, though I still appreciate what he did on "Hey Hey.: Same goes for if you hate "White Chicks." I'm not a Wayans sib, so if you have beef with that, why not head over to Netflix or Blockbuster and comment on this awful movie. Do the same for any offensive Eddie Murphy movies you find. Hell, I'll help you do it.
7. Australia is still a friend of the Kyles Files. As I stated earlier, I would visit your fair land as long as some of the meaner commenters promise not to wait for me at the gate. I do not think the actions of a show, or its performers, can reflect on an entire country. Nor do I believe that the commenters here can reflect on Australia at large. I find it a bit shocking that so many people feel they need to stand up for a sketch TV show. Believe me, I take no credit for the silliest and offensive "Saturday Night Live" sketches, though I totally support anything Andy Samberg does in his digital shorts.
8. It's just a blog Please don't allow the opinion of one person ruin your day. Believe me, I won't let the opinions of 200 or so on this post ruin mine. I thank you for the education I received on Australian history, and no matter what you said, I'm impressed with the solidarity shown on this entry. And now I leave you with a statement filled with sincerity and not a single hint of sarcasm: Have a g'day!
rys from oz said:
G'day Kyra.
Your points have been noted and thanks. As I said before if you are ever in our neck of the woods you are more than welcome to put another shrimp on the barbie with us and we can solve the problems of the world in one afternoon. LOL!!!
Phelpsy said:
What you fail to understand Kyles is that the act was nothing to do with the race of the people being portrayed - it was to do with the Jacknson Five - who happen to be black - if they were poking fun at Smurfs they would be painted Blue or Shrek - they would have been painted Green. I understand that when it is viewed by an American - they see it as a parody of Black people in general - which is understandable given the context of racism in America and the use of "black-face" in the past to parody black people in general. This skit was not a parody of Black people - it was a parody of the Jackson 5 - and Michael Jackson in particular - who's face was painted White in the skit. The Fact that people arefocusing on colour is amazing and racist in itself I feel - because colour was not the issue here - it was the Jackson 5 - the fact the Jackson Five are black is really surpurfolous - I think the respons eis more a comment on your countries history of racism - of which - the "black face" is a symbol - and that is how people are seing it - which, in America and that context - is understandable - but not in another country without such a history or contect - I feel this is just another example of American centrism where they view the world through their own lens and contexts.
Wonderland said:
Just to let you know. It's not a sketch show. The sketch was performed by amatuers who are medical professionals.
BN said:
Its a shame you won't change your view. When will you realise. You still view the world in black and white. I thought the fights for civil rights was to make it a level playing field every one but yet you insist that whats good for the goose is not good for the gander. If you retreat into the fears of the past you will remained stuck their for good. No wonder they say America is a country living in fear.
hyperchokkie said:
I really dont get all the fuss... the Jacksons are dark skinned so the guys painted themselves dark. I'm a chinese person living in Australia and must admit that Australia is one of the most tolerant multi-cultural places.
Americans need to have a look at themselves before they go around condemning other people. My last trip to the USA was for business and I wont be going back in a hurry. I was in Chicago and boy are they racist and intolerant there. The gestures, abuse and stares I got for being Chinese (I have perfect Australian english so it wasnt because nobody could understand me - this abuse was definitely racial!)... I wont go back in a hurry!!
If you are going to throw stones then make sure that you arent hypocrites yourselves!
Wonderland said:
Yes. My girlfriend has lived in the States for a few years now (Indiana, LA and NYC) and she is not 'white'. She's also spent significant time in Australia. She has dealt with far more racism in the States. Racism isn't about painting your face white or black; and if Americans think it is, then it's no wonder they have so many inter-cultural issues.
Rhoni - Melbourne said:
I am a 6th generation Aussie. There was absolutely nothing racist about the skit on Hey Hey Its Saturday, it was a send up of the Jacksons and nothing else. We are not American, unlike you (we do think we are the centre of the universe) and we do not care what you think. Our SOH (Sense of Humour) yes, we have one, is laid back and we will laught at anything, because it is funny. We do not analyse every little thing and discuss whether or not it politically correct. (we dont care, and PC is out of control). If you were offended then that is your problem. The guys performing were not white anyway and even if they were, it was a skit. Our host was shocked at Harry Connick (wanker) response to this because never for a minute would he or any other normal average Aussie see this as offensive. It was not! Sending up the Jacksons was very amusing and was 20 years ago as well. I suggest you Americans get off your high horse, and learn that not the rest of the world take themselves so bloody seriously!
Rhoni - Melbourne said:
ok, that was meant to read (we DO NOT think we are the centre of the Universe). As for the Pom who commented before me, if you do not like it here, go home! Simple.
Rhoni - Melbourne said:
Better still, whey dont you Yanks actually teach your citizens that life actually exists outside the USA. Most Yanks would not know where Australia was on a world map. A have a friend living in NY and I asked her about the media coverage there regarding the Somoan Tsiunami and Indonesian Earthquakes. Her response, "If it does not involve America or Americans, then it is a tiny news story and it was mentioned but was not big news.". Need I say more! Educate your own people before you comment on ours!
Ashley said:
I'm confused, who exactly is racist here? The 'lead' singer impersonating MJ was of Indian decent and painted his face white, so is this racist against whites? The others in the group were of mixed race, icluding a Sri Lankan and a Lebenese Australian. The fact is it was a pretty lame performance (which is the point of the show) by a group of nerds (all ex med students and now doctors) who obviously are fans of the Jackson5. What is the problem here?
Carolom said:
Hey Kyra..you won't need to travel to Australia now...half of the country has turned up at your place!
;-)
Fred42au said:
How ridiculous, we can't be anything but ourselves without offending others. Non-Africans playing Africans, Non-Australians playing Australians, Non-Jews playing Jews, Non-Arabs playing Arabs, Non-Asians playing Asians, and the list goes on. Perhaps we should stop being so over-sensitive and look at the intent behind the action. I come from a family in the 19th Century that was jailed for being so poor they stole some bread in order to live and were subsequently shipped to Australia as slaves in the British Criminal system. My history stems from persecution and I do not use it to ridicule others who are ignorant to my history and neither should anyone ridicule others because they don't live according to their particular view point or knowledge of their history. I am offended at your remarks Kyra, not because I think your wrong, but that you assumed that I should know your history and that your history is more important than mine. How ignorant.
Kyra Kyles said:
I appreciate the raucous debate that has taken place on this blog. And feel free to keep it going. I pride myself in responding to commenters because I do value your time and effort, even if we totally disagree. However, because I have a lot of work to do, plus a column due for tomorrow, I must withdraw from this discussion and move on.
However, I want to address the main arguments I see appearing over and over again. I did answer many, but just to make my responses to the bigger beefs crystal clear, here goes:
1. Blackface, is by definition, putting black paint/coloring on your face to imitate people who are, for the most part, not actually the color "black." It doesn't matter if you know the term or not, that is blackface. It doesn't matter if your history books do not discuss blackface. I'm sure the fool who invented it didn't have a name for it at first either, but it is still blackface.
2. This debate is not America vs Australia, though some may wish to paint it as such and that may be the approach other bloggers/media have taken. I, however, am not trying to start a culture war. I merely saw something idiotic and felt the need to comment. I didn't travel to Australia to see it, nor did I go on a blog run by Australians to vent. The viral video nature of our world makes it possible for information to spread. Those who tell me to mind my own business are hypocrites if they post on my blog to do so. This blog, like me, is based in Chicago. Guess how you saw it? The same way I saw the great blackface caper of 2009. And guess what? You commented! Imagine that...
3. I am not saying the performers are racist. I doubt they would have taken their act public if they felt they were being hateful. What I am saying is that they are ill informed, and nothing posted below changed my mind about that. So what if they are doctors or scholars? They suffered a lapse in judgement. While I cannot enforce American values and thoughts (are there such things, really?) on anyone else, I can certainly object to something that offends me. I am not Captain America, but I am a black woman who has family, friends and associates as well as non-black ones that find this kind of stuff distasteful. Racist is a strong term and should not be bandied about, including by those on this blog applying it to me and anyone else who doesn't "get" this humor.
4. America is not perfect. Yeah, I am fully aware of that and anyone who has read my previous works is aware that I take plenty of issue with things that go on in our pop culture environment as well. And again, since this isn't a country vs country discussion (unless you make it one), all points about America's crime, wars, racism and obesity are pretty much moot when it comes to this discussion. When people here do something globally stupid, I am not about to wave my flag on their behalf. But that's just me...
5. Black, in the context of this discussion, refers specifically to African Americans. Why? Because the Jackson Five are African Americans. So saying that someone of Indian heritage has the right to don the blackest skin color possible courtesy of shoe polish and somehow escape being accused of insensitivity is silly. If you have seen any photos of the Jackson 5, you know they are not that skin shade. Maybe if they had done a better makeup job, they wouldn't have come off so poorly, but guess what? They didn't, and we'll never know.
6. Harry Connick Jr. is a hypocrite, and that somehow waters down his defense against blackface. Oh, for reals? Take it up with that man. I don't work for him, though I still appreciate what he did on "Hey Hey.: Same goes for if you hate "White Chicks." I'm not a Wayans sib, so if you have beef with that, why not head over to Netflix or Blockbuster and comment on this awful movie. Do the same for any offensive Eddie Murphy movies you find. Hell, I'll help you do it.
7. Australia is still a friend of the Kyles Files. As I stated earlier, I would visit your fair land as long as some of the meaner commenters promise not to wait for me at the gate. I do not think the actions of a show, or its performers, can reflect on an entire country. Nor do I believe that the commenters here can reflect on Australia at large. I find it a bit shocking that so many people feel they need to stand up for a sketch TV show. Believe me, I take no credit for the silliest and offensive "Saturday Night Live" sketches, though I totally support anything Andy Samberg does in his digital shorts.
8. It's just a blog Please don't allow the opinion of one person ruin your day. Believe me, I won't let the opinions of 200 or so on this post ruin mine. I thank you for the education I received on Australian history, and no matter what you said, I'm impressed with the solidarity shown on this entry. And now I leave you with a statement filled with sincerity and not a single hint of sarcasm: Have a g'day!
Wonderland said:
Point 3. You have stated the performers are ill-informed. All you are talking about is ill-informed on American civil rights issues. Why should they be informed? It's not really relevant to Australia that the States has a slave history and years of African-American mistreatment. Do we stop wearing bikinis because Muslims find it totally offensive? I have lived among cultures foreign to my own for number of years and have found tolerance is not just a one-way street when it comes to behaviour you deem offensive. Much better to understand the action in it's context than to simply contrast it against the world as YOU know it.
guest said:
Cheers mate.
Alex the Australian said:
Well summed up I think. Yes, the act was insensitive (even just for the old adage of speaking ill of the dead!) & possibly in poor taste, especially in this more PC world, but it is obvious there was no more racism intended than when someone makes fun of Arnold Schwarzeneggers accent, or when the Simpsons travelled to Australia! And lets face it - every station in every country has exercised poor judgement & upset some group somewhere, be it racial, sex or religion. As Kyra says, there are several examples from American TV that annoy her just as much.
From this & various other forums, it is clear that the 'blackface' act strikes more at the American culture than the Australian, & as such Americans would be more offended by it.
And I guess this IS Kyra's blog, so if you want to have your own rant, start your own blog!
johnno said:
and being aussie we'd problaby welcome u with open arms and show some good old fashion aussie hospitality, if u were to come here, but you'd have to be able to laugh at yourself as well as everything else cause thats what we are like, so if your an uptight yank your gunna have a miserable time,but as you can see, us aussies stick together ,(its called mateship)we don't appreciate u rubbishing us and our sense of humour to the rest of the world, when u really don't understand us.
rohanm said:
just like the NAZI's stuck together
xfiler said:
I am Asian living in America and find this skit offensive, making fun of skin color is not entertaining..The bad thing is, they are mostly Doctors and call themselves "Intelligent Individual",They are Naive and Ignorant.
Phelpsy said:
it was not making fun of skin colour - it was making fun of the Jacksons?????
wanderer76 said:
Gotta love those Aussies (and Brits, and other Europeans) who insist that their doing things like this PROVES they're not racist, since only those horribly racist yanks would ever be offended by something like this (or would ever choose not to do something like this). It's sorta like the guy who runs at you swinging a sword and shouting "I come in peace!"
rmck1us said:
Get a grip. Your outrage is political correctness gone way too far. This was not a racially motivated skit. It was some Jackson 5 impersonators (and fans) having a bit of fun. I suppose you are the same people that are offended by the elementary "Christmas" productions. Harry Connick Jr was recorded in a skit as well
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/entertainment/873091/harry-connick-jr-impersonated-black-preacher. You folks that say that you are outraged.... please be careful what you wear for halloween this year... God forbit you offend someone! oops ... sorry to those of you how are offended that I brought God into it.
Lorkster said:
Has anyone seen the Movie White Chicks? How come that's not classed as racist? I saw Eddie Murphy in Norbit the other night playing a Chinese Man. That was the worst impression of an Asian I've seen.
It was incredibly stereotypical. Yet that's ok.
BTW one of the men who performed in the make up on this skit is Indian.
Carolom said:
Just one last question Kyra:
Re your last post:
"Believe me, I take no credit for the silliest and offensive "Saturday Night Live" sketches, though I totally support anything Andy Samberg does in his digital shorts."
do you have a web link for Andy Samberg as I have not ever seen a man in his digital shorts. It is a very interesting concept.
Kyra Kyles said:
Ha ha, Carolom. I really enjoy your comments. You have helped preserve my sanity in this. Thank you for posting. I'll send you some of those "shorts."
mahlee said:
Sorry Kyra but I think your definition : "Black, in the context of this discussion, refers specifically to African Americans. Why? Because the Jackson Five are African Americans." is too American focused. As this happened in Australia and as you pointed out the video is is available on the web, then the black context should be African or African descent.
Yes, this act was foolish and insensitive but being an Americian you have missed the another offensive part of this video, which was the cartoon reference to Kamahl - an Australian singer of Sri Lankan Tamil descent - Oh sorry, I forgot he's not black only brown so we shouldn't worry about that.
Kyra Kyles said:
Well, if the other individuals are brown, why do they need additional makeup? Thanks for acknowledging that the act was foolish and insensitive. As for "black only brown," I have no desire nor inclination to only defend those who are like me. I only saw the snippet of the video in question, so I do not know what they did to Kamahl. That has nothing to do with me being American. And if I had seen/understood that reference against another person, I would certainly speak out. This is not, though some seem to believe so, a race war going on via this blog. I don't think we should treat anyone in a dismissive and insensitive way, and if we do, we should offer apologies instead of excuses. Thank you for writing, mahlee.
Wombat said:
Just so you know Kamal was a regular guest on Hey Hey for a period of 17 years from 1987 to 1999 when the show finnished, it was a running joke (send up) about his accent he was not only not offended but joined in the joke this is another media beatup that hes now offended,Australians are not dumb 90% are smart the other 20% are not sure
Proud Aussie said:
What's this world coming too????? The Media loves blowing things out proportion and I actually jumped on here to have a fair crack but after reading some of the other comments from Americans kind of have a little bit more respect. I am a proud Australian, sure it's not a perfect world but we have fought to protect other countries in their time of need, when there is a Tsunami or our neighboring countries get hit by disaster we never ask questions and are the first to help. So in regards to the skit that was oh Hey, Hey, I have no qualms in people trying to make people laugh, life happens, people pass on, the ones in the spotlight people idolize and if they have passed or are still alive people are going to try and be them for the right reasons and sometimes wrong. Anyway enough said and god I hope I made sense. Good day to you all :-)
RiceCrackers said:
the media isnt blowing this out of proportion at all.
its getting the attention is deserves. its gone viral and the webosphere have spoken.
as an Australian living in Australia I was shocked and embarrassed that such a thing could appear on television in 2009.
what their intentions were was irrelevant. its totally racially insensitive and makes the performers, the host, the audience and the TV show and the network look like complete buffoons.
its an embarrassment for the country and anyone from here (Australia) who doesnt understand why needs to get an education.
the racial background of the Jacksons is irrelevant, but when you use black face paint to identify them, you make it completely relevant and an extremely distasteful way.
the fact there are people like this in our society who are completely unaware of this is no surprise. the fact a national broadcaster (albeit a hokey right wing one) got this so horribly wrong, is somewhat concerning.
this wont go away in a hurry, because bad news travels fast.
rys from oz said:
Get a life you boofhead!!! Or are you too busy sipping lattes in the cafes in Oxford Street or Bondi?
RiceCrackers said:
rys from oz.....says it all you bogan
rys from oz said:
Oh der RiceCrakers- you have heart my feelings. That is a pretty trendy word BOGON. Is it related to BAYGON? My, my you are a sensitive type aren't you.
Obviously you can't take the mickey being taken out of you. Never mind one day you will wake up and realise that it was all a bad dream. Sleep tight!
rys from oz said:
Also......I am very hurt that you haven't read all my other blogs. Are you discriminating against me? My self esteem has just plummeted! When will all this abuse end? Excuse me while I go find myself and get in touch with my inner self!!!!
Aussie Bob said:
Why are they African Americans? and not Americans?
How many are true African's with no mixed blood?
We are humans, be gratefull for the small time we have together..
I'm African Australian , Oh no that can't be right only Americans and be both........ Please it's someone's humor, when the Jackson's complain I will listen...........
Chella said:
Just for the record, 4 of the guys that did this are not so called "white men" but are in fact coloured themselves. The guy that was impersonating Michael who is Indian had a white painted face.....not outrage over that being racist. why??????
Wonderland said:
Yep. All these "5 white men" statements are insulting. Most of the Australian's who were in that skit are from diverse cultural backgrounds. Australia is a multi-cultural society and while racism in Australia is undeniably still an issue, it is not all about 'blacks and whites'. It reminds me a lot of a Muhammad Ali visit to Australia where an interviewer said "I like the boy". Of course in Australian vernacular this simply refers to Ali being the younger of the two and has no racist connotations whatsoever. Ali however took offence due to American use of the term. Different culture, different history - same actions/words have different meanings.
gerson said:
Hi Kyra,
After reading your long comments, I think I am getting a clearer perception of your reaction about this skit.
You have solid point about the show being INSENSITIVE (in the context and perspective of international audiences and race etc). I also accept it, it was INSENSITIVE, thoughtless and ill-prepare.
But again i will continue to defend this show was never meant or intended as an international entity, hence it clearly ignoring international culture, political correctness and sensitiveness.
Believe me people like Cate Blanchett and Geoffrey Rush would never dare to attempt and get involve with crappy stuff like this. They are the true representation of Australia and NOT this crappy show.
The show HHIS is merely a low budget and low quality TV show for just getting rid of our daily evening hours and filling in that particular TV time slot on the day. That's it!!! Nothing more, and in fact a lot LESS!!
Unfortunately their marketing plot by inviting Harry Connick Jnr
as a judged had backfired along with the connectivity of the internet. I do hope Daryl Somers can now peacefully retired and not to bring up another episode of HHIS. As i personally never liked it anyway.
Please do come to Australia, as we have fine coastal weather with beautiful beaches along it. Fantastic collection of wine in the Barossa Valley in SA, Victoria and Hunter valley in the NSW.
Definitely we will warmly and patiently waiting for your arrival at the custom gates as i believe it would be a non gentleman conduct to neglect your comfort and safety!!
ProudAussieMan said:
Dear Americans, yes the performance on "Hey Hey Its Saturday" was a bit tasteless (personally I hated the show 20 years ago, and the host is even more of a bumbling idiot, now than what he was 20 years ago) but I certainly don't think it was racist. The performers were all immigrants to this country for starters. Please do not judge our Country (the best and most beautiful country in the world, as well as the oldest) based on this stupid and tragic show! Remember the movie "White Chicks" what hypocrites you all are....That is just "Blackface" in reverse, and I never took offence, the movies was hilarious, but still the same in principle to the "blackface" stunt on "Hey Hey". So what you have a Black President, that doesn't mean anything, that does not prove to the world, that America is not a racist country. You still let the Klu Klux Klan exist, do you not? The rednecks from the South, most of them are Gun Touting anti-black racists are they not? President Obama still receives death threats does he not? You also let organisations like the "Westboro Church" exist who picket funerals of Gays/Lesbians and your own soldiers who are fighting YOUR STUPID WAR....Although "westboro" are not racist that I know of, you still let organisation like them and KKK exist! So, DON'T YOU DARE TAKE THE MORAL HIGH GROUND ON MY COUNTRY, AND JUDGE MY COUNTRY BASED ON THIS RIDICULOUS SHOW. For the record, we are NOT a backward country that time forgot, America caused the GFC, and our Country has come out of it, in the best position in the world. Remember the Sydney Olympics? "THE BEST OLYMPICS EVER" - Juan Antonio Samaranch (former Olympic Committee Chief) - ALL THIS AND YOU CALL US BACKWARDS? We do not ride Kangaroos to school either, you halfwits! Look at your own issues before you judge AUSTRALIA! SUCK ON THAT!
IMW said:
Oh dear,..... what a strom in a tea cup.
Why don't all the over sensitive Americans band together & petition congress to invade Australia...... I mean, with all the racist savages that live there, surely getting the votes to invade would be an easy task. Oh,.... & guess what ?? .... we've got OIL here too !! .... & worse still ... nearly 1/2 the worlds URANUIM !!! ..... OMG !!!! what to do ???
Yes,..... You'd best invade NOW !!,..... save us from ourselves !!! ..... after all, we haven't enslaved anyone (ie: several generations of Africans) & we didn't even have a recession when the rest of the world fell apart at the seams...... what a screwed up nation Australia is.
Build a bridge.
jojo said:
Oh.
Dear.
A whole carnival devoted to black faced minstrels.
http://www.henrytrotter.com/scholarship/minstrel-carnival.html
In Cape Town.
And not a peep of "Racism" to be heard.
Lizabeth said:
"Shame on the host and the other judges for trying to act like this performance was acceptable in any part of the world."
Seriously, I think that you, and the rest of the nation, should lighten up. The Australians are light hearted and were therefore able to see the humour in the skit. As for the Hosts, they are Australian and Daryl Somers has, and never would, put himself up for that kind of controversy.
I should know, Im Australian and have been watching his clean, family-friendly entertainment for the past 17 years of my life.
"Anyone considering coming forth with the Wayans-White-Chicks-defense, don't even bother. There is no history of "whiteface" that comes anywhere close to the embarrassment that blacks suffered during this period in Hollywood."
Further proof that you have no sense of humour. Sure it was stupid and idotic, but it was funny because it was aimed towards the Hilton sisters and others who are like them. It wasn't racist, it was simply a crack at stupid girls and they pulled it off. Regardless of their skin colour.
People are all the same, they are made up of flesh and blood. It shouldn't matter what colour your skin is, nor should it matter where you come from.
I personally think that you should get off your high horse and come to Australia. Who knows, you might even like it here. But AUS$10 says you could learn something from us (and no, not how to throw a boomerang).
Love from Australia.
PS. I think that there shouldn't be a ZIP code to sign up. I felt rather insulted that you wouldn't want someone from a different country to voice their opinion.
Phelpsy said:
here here on the ZIP code thing..... again - ethnocentric
Wonderland said:
Am I the only Aussie who sees the irony in the author using terms such as 'clueless fools' and 'ill-informed' while concurrently threatening to gut-punch an Australian of Indian decent. LMAO.
Perception is just that; reality however...
soook said:
Heres another disgusting racist video.,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg-4e4PWGY8&feature=related..(theres more). If that bloke came to Australia he would be catapulted home from the nearest bar.. No not really, because we do actually have a sense of humour.
Phelpsy said:
You see - it wasn't about race one bit - it was about the Jackson Five. It must be a sad state of affairs that people can't just look at something for what it is - the fact Amercians can't shows how little far they have come - they see colour in it - when they can just see people making fun of 5 entertainers - regardless of colour - that is when you will become a less racist society - for most Aussies - the colour of the skin of the performers wasn't considered as they did not see it as an attack or making fun of black people. The week before there was a guy taking of an Australian singer who is white and scottish heritage - noone complained about this.... as colour is not issue - and they would not have if he was happened to be black - because it is not his blackness they are mocking - it is the person. The fact you see colour as an issue in this Kyra shows your bias and that you and your society have a long way to go.
ohpuhleeease said:
Oh for heavens sake. You big-noting Americans never cease to amaze me. We are NOT Americans, thankfully. To us, America is a country of racists themselves (yes, examples abound, read the various blogs and comments - Harry C as a black priest and "white chicks" comes to mind amongst many other examples) - we do NOT have a history of slavery as you do. So who are you to criticize our past? Yours is the land of the shameful treatment of your natives, slavery, Rosa Parkes, KKK, white supremacists, and arrogantly stepping in to blow up the citizens of many countries - the list is endless.
Australians are easy-going, hospitable and kind. And they are not parochial and embarrassingly condesceding to other nations that are, supposedly, people of the "greatest nation on earth" (Oh....PLEASEEE!!) And you wonder why so many people dislike Americans? Because they can't see past the shit on their own noses.
And yes, Wonderland....I saw the same thing. This lovely author threatening to punch one of our black Australians. Nice one.
johnno said:
here bloody here. bloody yanks haven't got a sense of humour, self centred, culturally insulated bunch of moronic bogans, its no wonder the arabs want to blow the shit out of youse, lighten up, in Australia we luv laughing at ourselves as well as everything else, how dare u judge us!!!!!!
rohanm said:
johnno,
so now you are stereotyping ALL arabs as terrorists? but then to expected of a narrow minded bogan like you
johnno said:
i know u, u bast##d, i think your a computer stalker
ohpuhleeease said:
Oh.....I forgot. Thanks America for the recession. Lets criticize THAT one now. Americans - always messing the world up, then poking their noses in other country's business. My....how civilised you lot are.
aussiediva said:
I am Australian and I have two words for you.
Al Jolson.
Now get over yourselves.
Alex the Australian said:
Yes, this was an insensitive act, & yes, the producers should have realised that something that was funny 20 yrs ago may not be so overlooked today in our overly PC world. But if there is no racism intended, is something still racist? Or just stupid? Obviously each of you will decide for yourselves.
As with many of you, after reading the first few entries of Ms. Kyles, I was bout to go on a rant about this hypocritical, uppity American trying to judge us based on her own issues. But as the argument slowly degraded into an Australia vs America debate, I felt I had to ask - name one country in the WORLD that doesnt have a shameful racial past, as well as current race problems & divisions & racist individuals or groups. Pretty much any country that had a native population displaced by European settlers had that native population stomped on, & most of them still live worse off (Australian Aboriginies, American Indians, New Zealand Maoris etc). England has an entire political party (the BNP) which is whites-only, and there was South African Apartheid, which apparently now is all over? America has the KKK, which is still allowed to speak their mind under the whole Freedom of Speech thing (unless it goes against the Patriot Act, in which case they are being un-American & possibly terrorists). Hell, even countries with entirely black populations have different races/tribes trying for genocide on each other. Much of the western world has spent the last 60 years being conditioned to hate the Germans, the Japanese, the Russians, the Chinese, & the Muslims (though I guess that isnt specifically a racial thing), & now the North Koreans (& possibly the Chinese again, I cant keep track).
So until you can proudly say that your country lives in racial harmony (& killing everyone who isnt your colour doesnt count!), pull your head in & get out there & fix your own backyard, before you worry about the neighbours!
AustralianGreg said:
Im an early 40's Australian male, living in Australia. I watched the show and the Jackson Jive skit....and laughed myself silly. It never entered my mind that it would be percieved as racist. For that matter, several friends of mine(some of whome are black) had a similar viewpoint to me. Only later did we find out the self serving guilt trip that is occuring around the world. It was nothing more than 5 guys sending up a well known person.
Australian humour(and our culture) is both simple and complex. It is often stated that when an Austrlain is polite to you, he just tolerates you. But when he makes fun of you, or gives you a hard time......he respects you. Eg the statement "mate you are one ugly bugger" can mean just that, or it can mean, you are a dear friend and I respect you. Its the context in which its said.In the same vein, a bloke with red hair is ofen given the nickname bluey.
In Australia, everybody is fair game, we take the mickey out of anybody and averybody, polititions, pop stars, movie stars, blondes, the English, the Irish but most importantly....ourselves. Anybody who has watched the hit TV show in Australia Kath and Kim will understand.
I've spent much time in the US and love it, but I do find American humour much less sophisticated, contrived and often purile. Unfortunately our humour has to be dumbed down if its taken to the US because they just wot get it.
The most entertaining part of this saga has been watching the TV, Radio and print journalists frothing at the mouth, attempting to look as outraged as possible so they look as politically correct as possible. Kyra Kyles diatribe is a classic in this instance. An honourable mention must go to the CBS female anchor who claimed with gusto, that Australias civil rights record is much inferior to that of the US.
Anectdotal evidence shows that 90% of Australians thought the Jackson Jive act was neither racist or disrespectful.
So my dear Kyra, while you may mean well, the Jackson Jive act was not a racial slur, it was simply taking the mickey out of a well known high profile group, who happened to be....dare I say it....black. Afterall, didn't I say that was a sign of respect here in Oz.
rys from oz said:
During the Second World War when Australia was a launching platform for the American Armed Forces in the war against Japan many of these Yanks were appalled at the greeting that many Australians gave each other. What greeting I hear you ask. Well here it is: "G'day you old barstard - how are ya?". These blokes shocked until it was explained to them that it was a greeting of endearment. This truly reflects the width of the great divide in culture. As I said earlier: we are different socially, culturaly, politicaly and in all things practical.
Anthony said:
Most Americans will find this offensive - which it isn't. The more ignorant Americans are about countries other than their own - the more offended they will be about this video. Try learning about other countries where rasism isn't ANYTHING like what it is in yours... and then you might have a different view.
Wonderland said:
Yep. Hence my point regarding threatening anyone of Indian decent with violence. Racial issues - while just as pertinent - are very different in Australia. I appreciate the author meant no offence by her comment, however if I wanted to get all 'American' about it I would be shocked and offended she could be so insensitive toward the issue. Being a more considered person though, I understand that it is not an issue in her country so...
I can't believe painting your face black or white is alone and in itself a racist action. Obviously something else must be attached to the action to make it racist and in the case of Americans that would be their history of such actions being used to demean a race. In Australia there is no such history and therefore no such attachment.
It's kinda like saying that a guy dressing like a women to impersonate Madonna is sexist. Of course without a history that attaches additional meaning to such an action, suggesting it is indeed sexist would be quite foolish. Which is what Americans are looking like to Aussies right about now.
Aussies should have no compulsion to cater to American sensitivities over their history when producing shows for Australian audiences.
Fridgemusa said:
Hey Kyra here is a question for you, do you even know where Australia is? What hemisphere is Australia in? Who is Australia's Prime Minister? I challenge you to answer these questions without any help from any resources just off the top of your head!
ostc322 said:
may straight actors not play homosexuals? may sane actors not play mentally impaired characters? may male performers not dress like women for their roles? may black comedians not poke fun of whites? may americans not play nazi germans? may millionaires not play poor people?
why is it such a big deal when non-blacks parodize jackson five who happen to be black? would it be ok if blacks were to do the skit? why? is there a special license or sort of privilege to have?
we all are one human society, all equal - and all should be equally able able to talk, share, and imitate each other. each of the groups (and yes, even whites) are a minority relative tho the entire population. so, why bother?
why try to see "racism" when there is none intended? more and more so often i come to realize that racism is still alive in our society because there are people who try to explain every such move/phenomenon/happening with racism. jokes are funny because they are funny, not because they are about women/gay/muslim/black/countrymen/doctors/lawyers/blondes/whatever. be open to diversity and stop thinking that the whole world is coming after you!
for the record: NO, i am not australian (although, sometimes i wish i was :))
rys from oz said:
Well said!! Hear! Hear!
samanjj said:
brilliant
ravi123 said:
if certain australians don't find black face offensive don't that surprised.
there was a string of hate crime attacks against students from india this year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_attacks_on_Indian_students_in_Australia.
and of course there's the human rights violations of BLACK native australians (aboriginals):
http://www.globalissues.org/article/148/australia-and-human-rights#HistoricoppressionoftheAboriginalPeople
i'm sure these same folks that say black face is inoffensive also probably think aboriginals didn't have their land stolen or faced apartheid like in the u.s. and s. africa. i'm also sure that those same folks would argue that racism is non-existent and that immigrants from india shouldn't be upset over murder...
Wonderland said:
Again... hence my pointing out the irony that the author threatened violence against the performer of Indian decent. This is a real issue of racism in Melbourne, Australia right now. Idiots bashing and robbing anyone they perceived as Indian. Am I to conclude she is racist for not appreciating this particular issue unrelated to her country?
Australia certainly has issues with racism, as does every one of the 17 countries I have visited and the 3 I have lived in over a number of years. The point being made here is that 'blackface' is as much related to racism in Australia as cross-dressing is related to sexism.
Australians are well aware of the Indigenous population being displaced from their land. Some less sympathetic than others. There is now native title legislation that has tries somewhat to address what is an irreversible situation, yet the Indigenous population as a whole remain one of the most vunerable in Australia to poverty, disease and substance abuse.
There is much to be done to rectify this and it is a complex situation that is not entirely ignored by government, while some would argue not enough is being done.
Saddest of all, some of the oldest cultures on earth have been decimated since European colonisation of Australia and they were cultures that contained wisdom the world could have learned much from.
These are serious matters indeed, however they have nothing to do with 'blackface' performances. Obviously US history gives Americans, and African-Americans in particular, a far different perspective, but please don't superimpose your history, issues and culture on to other countries as the US so often does.
samanjj said:
That's not true Ravi. Why are your superimposing hate crime over those of us who laugh at all humour. Also mate, the lead speaker was Indian. Yes Australia is multicultural and I personally have been welcomed where ever I have gone in Australia. I actually felt my first taste of discrimination in the LA airport when they interviewed me at the airport in the security area because of my place of birth.
Do you think I take offence when comedians like Eddie Murphy make fun of Arabs? Or when all of us from the Middle east are assumed as terrorists for a skit show? No - because it's a joke. Now if a politician came up and said it and made policies based on it then yes I would be concerned.
joeschmo said:
Two things, Kyra. I saw a report on TV showing Harry Connick on MADTV doing blackface a while back. What a hippocrite! Also, I want to be respectful as possible with two points when commenting on this story. First, I think the men who did this weren't quite thinking when they put this together. Secondly, I think the black community would do itself good by ignoring these stupid events and move on. Take it from an expert: I'm GAY (always made fun of), I'm CATHOLIC (perfectly fine to make fun of us), and POLISH (a given). We've been putting up with mockery for years and somehow have survived. Remember, didn't Jesus say "turn the other cheek?". Food for thought, it's worked for me.
Wonderland said:
What the men weren't quite thinking about when they put this together were the cultural sensitivities of a nation on the other side of the planet. And why should they?
blackaustralian said:
I was born in London with a black West Indian mother and white Polish father and migrated to Australia at 10 years old. I had never in my life experienced racism before until being in Australia. The nation as a whole was quite openly racist, some malicious and some not but both still having very racist traits and Australian's are very quick to violently defend the mirage of a multicultural country.
Growing up in a new country so young, you need to adapt to your surroundings which was difficult. I noticed that oppression of aborigines was just common culture and this transcends to other minorities and was generally accepted by all groups involved as 'the way things are'. We are made to think that we have no right to speak up about it and that we are wrong to take offense.
The main thing was trying to combat this when i hit my late teens. This felt impossible as every aspect of the Australian culture had core racism, teachers, employers, sporting clubs, the media, public services and government. I moved from a regional area to the city in the hope of protection under the umbrella of a professional environment only to see the same levels of racism flourishing. In fact, Australians are actually unified by racism. Now I am Australian, there are many areas of Australian culture that I love and I do love this country and I will stick by it to improve this issue. A man told me once of a concept that cold climates with limited resources prompts the need for societies to unify as they need to work together for survival and hot climates with plenty of resources don't require that level of dependence of others in a society. eg. March of the Penguins. Maybe this is the underlining social evolution of modern Australia and why Australians tend to stand behind their racism in defense pulling the rude finger to all those who have a problem with it, because they are so comfortable in their safe, resourceful, laid back society and the nation has not yet seen the need for reliance. This whole issue has again saddened me but I am very glad it happened, that the world can now see what we deal with daily. If anyone is curious to know about the culture here, just read some of the distasteful and aggressive australian replies in these blogs. I know this next comment could seem silly to some but it is not. Harry Connick Jr is my equivalent to Martin Luther King or Malcom X. He is the only person who I have ever seen speak up in Australia about this type of treatment and he is getting ridiculed here for it worse than a murderer or rapist. America should really be proud of a huge advance in your culture and equal rights awareness. I know Australia mirrors America in many ways, i just hope we eventually grow toward the same levels of equal rights as your country.
the skit itself was only mildly offensive to me because as a black person in this country, we experience this racism daily since our childhoods so you start become accustomed to it (its bad i know). But what did seriously offend me was that the media did polls asking the majority if they felt offended by the skit instead of asking the minority who were in the firing line. The statistic 68% was then deemed as an 'overwhelming' amount of people who agree that the skit was not offensive and this statistic was used against me to tell me that i have no right to be offended by it.
I noticed a lot of Australians saying that if black people were to dress up white and do a skit, they wouldn't take offense. They are also targeting Harry's skit as a preacher on Mad TV saying he is a hypocrite and has no right to take offense and they are also condemning americans for taking offense when Robert Downey Jr played a black soldier in Tropic Thunder.
As a black man, I can tell you, Harry and Robert were not offensive at all. Whilst this Australian defense just seems to be redirecting blame, let me explain how i identify what is tasteful and what is not in this area of comedy.
You can mimic someone’s mannerisms and it’s comical and will be deemed tasteful because it requires wit and acting ability and the joke is focused on skilful impersonation of mannerisms that the individual has chosen to take in their life, the way they dress, the way they talk, their body language etc. This Australian Hey Hey blackface act had nothing else other than black faces so the joke was the race or skin tone of the characters. I was waiting for the act behind the costume, some good dance moves, a good MJ impersonator, any one of the hundreds of MJ signature traits or moves, it just never came.
When Australians are confronted about being racist, you get these responses.
1) 'Get over it'
2) 'Man up sissy'
3) 'If you don't like it, go back to your own country'
4) 'This is Australia, majority rules and we make our own rules, if we say the worlds flat, its flat, if we say racism is acceptable, accept it.
5) I don’t care what you think because you’re insert race or country of origin here
6) No one else has a problem with it
Racism is backed up with racism, disrespect and oppression. From this point if the argument continues….
7) They will go and ask the opinion of those in their favor to use against you, a passive oppressed person of the same race or a majority vote.
8) They will dig up dirt on you as some form of defense and
9) They will say if the shoe was on the other foot, they wouldn’t take offense
Now I think that Australians feel they have found a platform for racism in using those of Indian decent to make black jokes. I’ve witnessed such a scenario where a guy calls his Indian friend the N word openly and loud around black people with a pre-prepared response of ‘oh, I wasn’t talking to you, I was talking to him and he’s black and has no problem with it’. I know that wily snideness is the second language of Australia but this is not as indirect as you may think.
Whilst all these thousands of Australians are saying they have no problem with it including Australian media, can anyone name one Black celebrity who is okay with it? I’m not talking about one of your oppressed black friends, that would be number 7 on that list. Australians are refusing to ask what the Australian black community thinks and just posting the response without edit. The black community in Australia is the same as the rest of the world, we all feel for racism globally and of different eras and we all want to see racism abolished. Saying Australia is different is ridiculous, especially without asking us.
RiceCrackers said:
totally agree
what makes it worse is the way our media (particularly news.com.au) have treated this issue. trying to discredit Harry Connick Jnr while deflecting away from the real issue and by helping out their mates at Channel 9.
it says a lot about the education levels of our country that so many people still watch and find funny that brand of stupidity that can be found on Hey Hey its Saturday. Some of the excuses here are laughable. Anyone who thinks that skit was OK is racist themselves and possibly doesn't even realize it.
this is not about America or Harry Connick Jnr..this is about whats socially acceptable in our society. And it appears there are many in this country with a lot to learn.
rys from oz said:
Oh RiceCrakers and BlackAustralian: I think you persons need a chill out pill. I am alos of ethnic extraction but have managed to assimilate into this culture. My feelings are you are very generalist in your opinions. In fact I would ask were you two when we had the "Sorry"march over the Sydney Harbour Bridge? Hmmmmmm
Talk is cheap people - if you are than strong about it get off your behinds and be proactive. Or are you the know it all spectators on the sideline while the rest of us are playing. Over to you kiddies!!!
Carolom said:
Rys has just given a classic example of the trivialising and discounting you were talking about blackaustralian and I am very aware how many times you encounter this attitude on a daily basis as I live and work amongst Aboriginal Australians who cite this kind of denial and discrediting on a daily basis.
Any chance that blackaustralian might be an expert on the reailty of every day racism in Australia rys?
johnno said:
mate if it is so bad you have the right to leave!!!!
johnno said:
i believe thats item number 3
rohanm said:
get over it mate...i believe thats number 1
rohanm said:
mate..you are on an american blog, using an american computer ...if you dont like what you read..why dont you leave..and go back to the bush and play with your kangaroos?
ohpuhleeease said:
I think the yanks should hark back to their civil right movement and go play with a golliwog.
America has one of the most shameful histories in the whole vast world. Thankfully Australia doesn't have that - apart from our history with our aboriginals, ours is one of no wars, more tolerance than to be found in most parts of the world, sound economic and health management (yes, America - take note), and one of the best standard of living in the world - yes, again, America, better than yours (note the Human Development index). And yes, kangaroos - just like your "coon"!! Or shouldn't I say that word as in America, naturally, it has a double connotation. Give me a kangaroo any day - mate.
ps We're on an American blog? Well, the irony of that! Kyra herself spoke of the internet being available to every country in the world. In that case, rohanm, if this is an American blog, YOU stay the hell out of Australian TV. Now answer THAT one!! Bloody yankie hypocrite!
johnno said:
ha, another d#ckhead eh! i luv people like u mate i eat for break fast
ohpuhleeease said:
This essay is too long to read - can you precise it down to a couple of paragraphs please? Thanks, yank!
Carolom said:
Hey blackaustralian...like you I came to this country from England as a child. Unlike you I was a white-kid so my experience of racism was very different to your. I wrote about my experience in my blog and I am sure that as a Black kid, you can relate to what happened in the school yard and how the virus of racism is transmitted and passed on from generation to generation in this country. A country that is steeped in denial of its history of the abuse and denial of human rights and is founded on the relatively recently revoked White australia policies.
I'm sorry you have experienced the kinds of racism I have been naming in this forum and appreciate you sharing your story as a Black Australian.
here is the link:
"The Virus"
http://carolom.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/the-virus/
samanjj said:
I am Australian and live in Australia. I have Iranian heritage and was born raised there. The guys were not being racist, and they certainly didn't make black people look like buffoons but were making fun of the Jackson five and Michael Jackson in particular as a 20 year tribute to when they first did this act when Michael Jackson was darker skinned. That is called satire. It is a form of comedy. Advocating violence towards them is not only illegal but also intolerant and hateful which are not characteristics of free speech or comedy.
I would like you to understand something of the Australian culture that is so different to the US one. We are very relaxed. We never had segregation in schools or work. We never had slavery. We don't bar people from golf clubs. We had the extermination of the local aboriginals but the US did that as well and far worst. Where are your local aboriginals or "Indians" now in society?
Also, the people performing the black face were all from different background, the spokesman dancer on radio was Indian and most of them were not even Anglo-saxon. In Australia our divides are not racial and we don't discriminate on skin colour, origin, etc. It will be more about your communication skills than anything else here if people don't take a liking to you. Americans of non-European backgrounds have it harder there but don't project your divides onto us and think because you have a half-African/half-white American President that you are ahead of Australia and can preach your values to us. You are far less tolerant (8 mile anyone?) and could hardly find any Australian examples to parallel the magnitude of your race riots, KKK and segregated communities.
Kangaroo Kid said:
I cannot believe all the uproar a simple skit parodying the Jackson Five has caused in the self proclaimed 'centre of the universe', that being the good ol' US of A. The criticism of Australia being a racist country is a bit rich coming from a country that still allows the Klu Klux Klan to operate & allowing everyone to carry a gun & then complain about the number of gun related crimes. Hello, you morons, haven't you put 2 & 2 together & realised that the two may be related.Take away the guns & the crimes may reduce. This criticism of racism also coming from a country which laughed at Robert Downey Jnr dressing as a 'black man' in Tropic Thunder yet complains about 6 doctors dressing up as the Jackson 5 by painting their faces black. Does anyone over there realise that the Jackson 5 were & still are black!!You can't really do a send up of the Jackson 5 by painting your faces green!! This skit wasn't a send up or meant to be derogatory to all black people, just the Jackson 5. By the way, why do black Americans call themselves 'African Americans' when most of them haven't had an ancestor living in Africa for at least 3 - 4 generations or over 100 years!! You don't hear of English Americans, Mexican Americans or Israeli Americans. Sounds like the blacks may be playing the race card themselves.
One last thing, Harry Connick Jnr said that the skit wouldn't be allowed in his country. Well a bit of advice for Harry....he wasn't in his country he was in my country & I thought the skit was great. Not everything revolves around the politically correct, arrogant yanks ( oops am I allowed to use that word), thankfully. Thanks to you mob & your greed, the rest of the world is suffering, except here in Oz which is the greatest country in the world.How could the rest of the world follow a country that spends billions of dollars firing rockets at the moon to see if it has water, when 30% of Detroit are unemployed & lining up for food vouchers to feed their families. Great example of arrogance. By the way how's the restoration of New Orleans going after Katrina hit years ago. Bit slow? Wouldn't be because it is a primarily black area would it?? I am thinking of doing a skit on Marilyn Monroe next week. I will probably have to put on a blonde wig. Are all the blonde bimbos in USA going to complain??
johnno said:
we'll said mate!!!
ohpuhleeease said:
It seems to always be the blacks flaring up the race issues - they shriek the loudest, which is racist in itself. But I think they can't see loudly they doth protest.
ostc322 said:
Second that: "Sounds like the blacks may be playing the race card themselves."
I live in Chicago now, where it seems like racial issues are brought up the most. But I lived most of my life in Europe and find it very sad here, that people try to divide (and effectively alienate) themselves from people who are different.
blackaustralian said:
see the hatred in australiakid's comments? welcome to australia
ohpuhleeease said:
blackaustralian, you're obviously a yank masquerading as an aussie - lol!
Have you not read the hundreds of hateful comments written by Americans against the Aussies? Oh....and I might add.....this was a case of America, once again, interfering in another country's business, using their historical hangups against us.
Welcome to the moved loved people in the world - Americans!!
Wonderland said:
I was beginning to think the same thing. A lack of Australian-ness about the writing. "Man up sissy". More like "Harden the **** up princess". And claiming someone using the 'N' word as a surreptitious address to a friend.
Let's be honest, Australia has it's own brand of racism and I have heard a raft of derogatory comments directed at people of various races - myself included - however I have genuinely NEVER heard that word used in such a way in 35 years of living in that country. I have truly only heard it from some young kids trying to emulate hip-hop culture.
And this guy reckons he's lived there since 10yo... sounds distinctly American if you ask me.
RiceCrackers said:
the strawman defenses are coming thick and fast on this forum.
stick to the topic people.
if i'd seen that show on TV I would've immediately thought "that is a bit racist" regardless of whether Harry was there or not.
Wonderland said:
I'll be honest with you and admit the same. However only in light of exposure to American sensitivities would I have thought such a thing.
There is nothing inherently racist in the act of painting your face a particular colour unless you're attaching the history of a foreign country to the action.
I have lived in a few non- Western countries and spent significant periods in many others. Racism takes many forms and is undoubtably present in Australia, as it has been in every country I've ever been to. However in my opinion this 'performance' doesn't represent the issues we have in Australia as it may represent the issues of racism in the States.
ohpuhleeease said:
And many Australians DIDN'T think it was racist - because it's not a hangup of ours, not something from our history.
RobinC said:
NOT EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD CONFORMS TO THE US MINDSET.
IN MANY WAYS YOU ARE LIGHT YEARS BEHIND US...
The guy playing Michael was a dark skinned Indian/Australian plastic surgeon with his face painted white. So for the mixed race doctors and medical specialists who did the skit, it was about irony, not race.
They were not trying to make buffoons of black people. They were trying to make buffoons of themselves.
The idea of that show was usually for people to do something grotesque and get as low a score as possible.
So the act was very successful in those terms.
This kind of layered irony though would be utterly confusing for 99.9% of US citizens and Harry Connick was totally out of the loop there. He responded in the only way he could manage.
The way the US media picked it up is logical, but is really is utterly clueless.
It's easy to see why US people can't conceive why such a skit would possibly appear on Australian broadcast TV. Just the same way as Australians can't conceive why a nation like the US would possibly ever have had a vicious civil war where one half was actually fighting FOR slavery. Utterly inconceivable.
The UK has made similar ghastly mistakes in their past - marching along in subjugated colonies around the world with their bands playing 'HAIL BRITANNIA, ENGLAND NEVER NEVER NEVER SHALL BE SLAVES' with the subjugated native population lining the route wondering about the irony of the lyrics. Both the US and UK have these horrendous histories and you are both still reeling from them.
In your cultures anything that could be construed or misconstrued as racial vilification is absolutely taboo. And with your pasts so it should be.
Australians don't have that damage, those scars and that shame.
We've got our own issues and complex history. And it's totally different from yours.
Also - While we're on the subject of Michael Jackson...and 'inconceivable' issues...how come the US practically hounded him to death (it really is a miracle he didn't commit suicide years ago) then you all fell about with love and adoration after he died?
NOTE THIS KYRA- Australian women had the vote a generation before women in the US.
You ultimately got the vote because Australia showed how.
Australia invented the 8 hour urban working day in the early 19th century while workers in the US kept working daylight hours (dawn to dusk) for generations, until your country finally realised Australia had taught the world how to live. Kyra you work 9 to 5 because Australia showed how.
Australia is already out of the GFC because we have better financial management, unlike the US.
Australia provides health care for all. Unlike the US.
So who exactly is behind who here? And who should be taking lessons from who?
Wonderland said:
You have one key point here... it is not Australia's history and our issues regarding racism are vastly different to that of the States.
I noted one commentator conceding the performance would unlikely have been racist in nature, but that Australians should be educated about America's civil rights issues and history. I ask the question why? It's not like Americans are in any hurry to understand cultures different to their own. Reeks of the self-righteousnes hypocrisy than America has made famous for themselves.
ohpuhleeease said:
Well spoken, Robin C. Why should we pay heed to America's hangups? - when they don't give a stuff about the history or practices of other countries - ie Australia. There's irony in that. Did Kyra bother to look at our history and culture? NO. This has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with America's shameful past.
Carolom said:
Don't take lessons from Australia...we are still infants when it comes to human and environmental rights:
Australia sanctioned the stealing (experienced as kidnapping) of Aboriginal children from their families and made it an illegal act for Aborigines to marry non-Aborigines. Although people can receive compensation for tripping up on a footpath, they wil not receive compensation for enduring years of abuse in the insititutions where they kidnapped children were taken.
The Australian government is currently mining traditional Aboriginal Land that was stolen during the invasion into Aboriginal territory during the European invasion.
Australian Government recently implemented an intervention into Aboriginal Communitities that over rode the racial discrimination act and is now before the United Nations as violation of human rights.
Australia has a current history of imprisoning young children, the children of people seeking refugee status for extended periods of time .
These are facts.
rdrjo75 said:
I'm an Anglo Australian and i personally didn't find the skit offensive nor did I find it that funny either but that's beside the point. I can however understand how people could be offended. I agree with Kyra about the Wayan brothers white chicks movie and the other examples of black people putting white make-up on being not the same thing. And those arguing about HCJ doing the black preacher sketch being the same thing are kinda missing the point why people have been offended, if these guys had put make-up on to make them look african american (eg. like HCJ does in his sketch) it would be a non issue and no one would've cared (and if they would then thats another story). People have been offended because these guys have put the pitch black "boot pollish" make up on which is incensitive to the racist behaviour black people had to deal with during the earlier days of hollywood and tv. There's a big diffence to the 'boot pollish black face make up' and the 'brown dark skinned make up' HCJ used in his sketch to give him an african american appearance. And if you fail to see the significant difference between these then I guess you won't understand why people have been offended.
However people should not take the silly dancing as an immitation ofthe minstrel acts of the past, as anyone who knows this show will tell you that people go on to make fun of themselves and act stupid. They couldve been impersonating anyone and they wouldve look like 'baffoons.'
Lastly I don't think this act was racist in its intent and Kyra doesn't say that in her original post so maybe she feels the same as me, but although these guys weren't themselves being racist they were being incensitive and innapropriate about racial issues so they may deserve a slap in the face and a wake up call from their ignorance but they don't deserve the 'racist' label slapped on them.
That is an excellent post. Most of the people saying that they don't have a problem with this act are white. Just by making their faces black with boot polish makes it a racially offensive thing for black people. It would be a completely diffent thing if they had just slightly darkened their skin. I have no problem with white actors potraying black characters at all. Just as long as it is in good taste. I thought White Chicks was stupid and offensive. I had no problem with Harry Connick portaying a black preacher are two different things.
For all of you people going on about how Australia doesn't have race issues , get real.I am a black American and have been living in Australia for 5 years now. I have been called a nigger by a white person twice. I have heard the word nigger or coon in reference to Aboriginal people numerous times. I am from Texas and never experienced racism in my time growing up there.
Wonderland said:
I don't think there have been many people saying Australia doesn't have racist issues - in fact many have stated it does - just that they aren't the same issues as in the States.
Kyra states the White Chicks movie isn't comparable to the Jackson Jive because it doesn't share the history of what took place in regards to Hollywood doing 'blackface'. This is US history, not Australian, which is perhaps why so many Aussies have made this point. Remove the US historical reference - which is a reality in Australian history - and essentially it's just people painting there faces a different colour. I understand why this is an issue for Americans, but Americans need to understand why it's not such an issue for Aussies.
Your claims that most of the people that don't have a problem with this skit are 'white' is just as stupid and race induced as the person who said only 'blacks' have an issue with it.
I am genuinely surprised and disappointed anyone has called you 'nigger' in Australia. The 'coon' reference towards Aboriginals, while equally disappointing, comes as litle surprise though.
My 'non-white' girlfriend has lived in the States these last few years and has been subject to far more racism than in her time in Australia. So these type of tit-for-tat comments from both sides are meaningless, as every country I've ever been to has issues with racism and beliefs of superiority.
PS I am not 'white'
rdrjo75 said:
I meant to say Harry Connick Jr. portraying a black preacher and what these guys did are two different things. The reason why it is a big deal in the US is because Connick Jr. is an American who was asked to be on this show.All you Australians talking about Americans minding their own business need to remember that this is an Americna blog. Plus 75% of the news, movies,tv shows, and other entertainment here in Australia is from or about he US. That is why so many Australians "think" they know about he US. Also to all the ones pointing out the problems in the US need to remember that we have plenty of our own issues here in Australia. We are in no position to talk negativley about issues in another country.I guess they don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot. There are always news reports about all the ills of the US. It seems like every little thing that happens in the US makes the news here. Is that the American media forcing it on the Australian media?
Wonderland said:
No. That's just cheap and lazy local media outlets lapping up the accessable images on offer. Had 12 odd people die from a natrual disaster in the country I'm currently living in and many more left homelessand destitute. None of my friends or family in Australia heard anything about it.
No doubt had it been in America or other developed nation there would have been footage and other media attention and the lazy Australian media would have tagged on their broadcasts.
I'm not here to denegrate the US. Just to point out their understanding of reality as relates to their country's issues and history does not extend beyond its borders. They are not a doyen of truth for the world.
johnno said:
if bloody harry connick jr hadn't been on the show and didn't bring this to the attention of the yank media nothing would've evolved to this extent. in the wash up, that bast#rd has created a giant shit storm over a couple blokes clowning around, not even intending to be rascist. My thoughts are that yanks that don't have a sense of humour, don't bother coming here because one way or the other we problaby gunna offend you some how.
Kyra Kyles said:
Thanks for everybody's insights and perspectives. I got a lot of unexpected response. Hopefully, both sides of the argument were able to take something positive away from this discussion.