There's no pretty way to talk about the fourth blow out in a row. The team played terribly outside of Luol Deng. There are all kinds of issues right now, but the primary problems are that Brad Miller lost one too many steps this summer and the Bulls lack the depth to deal with another injury.
Two key stories in Bulls blowout; Hinrich out. Miller old.
Kirk Hinrich has some issues. He's not really a slasher, he's a streaky shooter, and he tends to overdribble for a guy who's never really going to penetrate anyway. However, this game is exhibit one on how screwed the Bulls are if he's out for any length of time.
If you recall at the beginning of the season when making predictions I said that the Bulls had a 35-50 win range (or maybe I said 30-50), based on a wide variety of factors. Injuries was the biggest one. The Bulls did not have the depth to overcome injury problems and even missing Tyrus Thoams (whom I considered the least reliable guy in the rotation) would cause problems.
Well, missing Tyrus has caused problems. Missing Kirk and Tyrus is a recipe for not winning a game until they get healthy. The team's rotation is now:
Derrick Rose (okay he's good even if he's playing two levels below what people hoped for)
John Salmons (he's good every other game or so)
Luol Deng (he's been very good)
Taj Gibson (he'd be lucky to be getting 10 minutes a game on any other team in the league)
Joakim Noah (he's good)
Brad Miller (suddenly looks like a 10 minute per game option)
James Johnson (he has potential, ie, he stinks right now)
Jannero Pargo (he's terrible)
Aaron Gray (he's terrible)
Lindsay Hunter (He shouldn't even be in the league except it was cheaper to sign him as a player than as an assistant coach, but since he's the 4th guard there is a chance he'll actually be forced to play decent minutes if there's an injury or foul trouble).
In their 9 man rotation, the Bulls have four guys who probably wouldn't play for most other teams in the NBA, and two more guys who are playing well below last year's ability level. It's going to be awfully hard to win games like that.
The Bulls don't play again until Monday, so with three days off, we'll have to hope Kirk's thumb heals enough to play.
Getting back to Miller, his game just fell off a cliff. His shooting percentages are way down, but the scary thing is his rebound rate has gone to crap. That shows he's unable to play physically around the basket at all any more to make up for his lack of speed. It's not like this team is killing it on the glass either. They desperately need the help rebounding the basketball right now.
I don't want to call the end of the line on Miller right now. He can still shoot better and that would make him valuable even if his rebounding/defense are diminished. However, going into the season, Brad Miller may have been #1 on our depth chart for talent. When Tyrus is back he'll be fighting for #3 with Taj Gibson.
If you recall at the beginning of the season when making predictions I said that the Bulls had a 35-50 win range (or maybe I said 30-50), based on a wide variety of factors. Injuries was the biggest one. The Bulls did not have the depth to overcome injury problems and even missing Tyrus Thoams (whom I considered the least reliable guy in the rotation) would cause problems.
Well, missing Tyrus has caused problems. Missing Kirk and Tyrus is a recipe for not winning a game until they get healthy. The team's rotation is now:
Derrick Rose (okay he's good even if he's playing two levels below what people hoped for)
John Salmons (he's good every other game or so)
Luol Deng (he's been very good)
Taj Gibson (he'd be lucky to be getting 10 minutes a game on any other team in the league)
Joakim Noah (he's good)
Brad Miller (suddenly looks like a 10 minute per game option)
James Johnson (he has potential, ie, he stinks right now)
Jannero Pargo (he's terrible)
Aaron Gray (he's terrible)
Lindsay Hunter (He shouldn't even be in the league except it was cheaper to sign him as a player than as an assistant coach, but since he's the 4th guard there is a chance he'll actually be forced to play decent minutes if there's an injury or foul trouble).
In their 9 man rotation, the Bulls have four guys who probably wouldn't play for most other teams in the NBA, and two more guys who are playing well below last year's ability level. It's going to be awfully hard to win games like that.
The Bulls don't play again until Monday, so with three days off, we'll have to hope Kirk's thumb heals enough to play.
Getting back to Miller, his game just fell off a cliff. His shooting percentages are way down, but the scary thing is his rebound rate has gone to crap. That shows he's unable to play physically around the basket at all any more to make up for his lack of speed. It's not like this team is killing it on the glass either. They desperately need the help rebounding the basketball right now.
I don't want to call the end of the line on Miller right now. He can still shoot better and that would make him valuable even if his rebounding/defense are diminished. However, going into the season, Brad Miller may have been #1 on our depth chart for talent. When Tyrus is back he'll be fighting for #3 with Taj Gibson.
23 Comments
Supercesto said:
Wow!, If our chances of winning games depends on Kirk and Tyrus, we are doom. This team lacks offensive power and Kirk and Tyrus do not provide it in a consistent basis. Yes, you need a good rotation of players to keep your core fresh, but I don't see any diference in the outcome (the 4 blowouts) if Tyrus and Kirk were playing. Just hope that our Gm's come with a solution sooner rather than later..
Doug Thonus said:
I don't know that Kirk/Tyrus change the outcome of the past four games, but they definitely make them far more competitive. They're just craploads better than the guys who have replaced them.
The Bulls, right now, win with a balanced attack. They don't have the individuals capable of carrying a team by themselves when there are several horrifically weak links on the team.
I doubt a solution is coming for this year though. They're not going to take on short term or long term money, so you have to convince a team to trade better players for worse ones once money isn't going to balance the equation. That's awfully unlikely.
souleater7 said:
Kirk no but Tyrus yes.
Doug Thonus said:
You think Pargo is as good as Hinrich? More power to you. I think Kirk's better on offense and vastly better on defense.
RPK said:
IMO, against the elite teams, there were only a few players who looked like they belong on the court...Rose and Deng.
I'm surprised you're giving Noah a free pass on the road trip. Do you feel that the teams interior rebounding and overall defense is all Gibson's fault? I have to believe that some of that falls on Noah, even if he did start the season well.
Doug Thonus said:
Noah hasn't played as well, and I think he needs to play better, but Gibson/Miller have given us nothing at all.
Alex said:
No-Shot Noah in his third season, started the regular season in shape for the first time! In the preseason he had to take electrolytes during a game, it looked like the same old "lazy" No-Shot Noah.
So far, Noah has exceeded all expectations and at the same time needs some help on the boards. He can help himself if he lifts all year long. He still gets pushed around under the boards by strong forwards and centers
The jazz outscored the bulls by 20 points in the paint.
Noah was 3-9, that is unacceptable considering his length. Quickness is not enough against strong opponents.
Supercesto said:
Is Stackhouse availaible?. I mean, Management has to show the fans and future FA that they will do anything within there reach to make the team better. Now is the moment to show fans and FA that luxury tax is not an issue...
Doug Thonus said:
That'd be nice.
Do you think it will happen?
Supercesto said:
I'm afraid not.
But just for the sake of fun: Let's say Hinrich and Pargo are out for two months...That should force there hand
Doug Thonus said:
I don't think it would.
The problem is there's no immediate way to get help via spending money on the FA market, and even if you decide to spend money in a trade your odds of getting help aren't good if you won't take on long term dollars.
MrHappy said:
You are off-course a bit.
Two key stories:
#1.) Vinny Del Negro doesn't know how to motivate or prepare his team to play. There is NO EXCUSE for 4 straight blow-outs. None. He needs to be held accoutable!!!
#2.) A trade or trades need to happen. This team is PATHETIC and MEDIOCRE at best. They lack HEART, SKILL and CHARACTER. It's time to break up the core group of players!!!
Doug Thonus said:
With Hinrich and Tyrus out last night, the team had 5 guys who belong inside an 8 man rotation on the court. I don't know that it matters how much VDN "motivates them" at that point.
If you bring in a new coach, you're likely to get the same thing with this roster right now, so then do you hold him accountable and fire him right away?
Second thing, if the team is pathetic, mediocre and lacks heart, skill, and character then how do you think they're going to get back major talent in a trade?
There's no one on this team I'm attached to, but improving via trade is always dicey because you're asking someone else to give you something better than what you have. This sometimes works out if:
1) You want to get better in the short run and can let them be better in the long run (we don't seem to qualify there as this team isn't built to do anything in the short run)
2) You are willing to take on more money in order to get talent (we don't seem to qualify there as we want to keep cap room open next summer).
These are the kind of vague statements fans can make that can't be backed up by any kind of real action that helps the team. It's easy to say you're holding someone accountable or to demand action, but it's hard to find the action that actually helps in the long run.
MrHappy said:
All I'm saying is, it could be both.
They obviously need better players. Make that All-Star players. That being said, how good is their coaching when they can't even COMPETE on this road trip? There is NO EXCUSE to get blown-out in 4 straight games. I have to put a lot of that blame on VDN.
souleater7 said:
Here is my question. The back end of the Bulls bench, Hunter, Gray, Pargo.. why did they bring these guys back? Wouldn't it have made sense to bring in some younger D-Leaguers like Byars or Richards? I understand why they brought in Pargo but it's clear he can't really hang in the league anymore.
Are they really this bad at evaluating talent? What are these guys really going to give you? It just doesn't make sense to me why they would waste roster spots on players that can't play in NBA. Why people who have clearly out played them in the preseason are in Europe.
It just seems like the drop off with the Bulls bench and lack of scoring will doom them.
Hunter is old and done
Pargo is inconsistent and done
Gray is bad and done.
JJ is a rookie thats struggling
Miller old bad and done.
That bench is horrid. Are they setting up Vinny to fail? This just blows my mind.. it's like the players even knows if this team gets down by 10 the game is over. They didn't even try last night. Well Noah did I guess.
The same problems exist with who ever the GM is with the Bulls. They didn't really address the GM issue. Paxson is still the Gm? Who is Gar? He put this bench together? They never really addressed the GM. They just played musical chairs with bad. I'd rather have Krause as the GM.
They are almost in the same situation as the Chicago Bears. The talent evaluator and head coaching are awful.
Doug Thonus said:
The bench is terrible, but I think if you swap any two of those guys out and replace them with Byars and Richard that it's not any better.
I think bringing back Gray/Hunter/Pargo were mistakes though. They'd have been better off with Byars and two other guys at the minimum just so they had an additional 1.5 million or so under the tax in which to trade with for flexibilities sake.
souleater7 said:
I think they would have been better because with Byars at least he can give you a tall scoring threat from 3 that can play two positions as apposed to having nothing. Richards wasn't really anything special but he would have provided rebounds when Brad Miller is old and falling all over. Brad Miller is as bad as ever.
I don't know I'm just so mad that they brought these people in because they don't have the balls to sign a D-leaguer. At least they could have given players a spell.
How much better would this team be with Byars, Richards and Arroyo? I honestly think maybe 4 or 5 games. They at least give you a chance to rest and not have that big of a drop off as apposed to just giving up 15 point leads when our bench comes in.
MrHappy said:
What did Derrick Byars shoot from the 3pt-line again in the pre-season? Of course, he could have helped. They were to cheap to keep him. Let's not go down that road again.
MrHappy said:
Did Derrick Byars outplay Gray/Hunter/James in the pre-season? Yes or no? I say yes. Therefore, the bench would be better with him on it, especially given his 3pt. range.
As far as saving money for trades, well, John Paxson and Gar Forman need to justify their decision not to keep Derrick Byars by making a trade that is worthwhile and helpful.
Newskoolbulls said:
That was a very ugly game. We got no help from the rooks, no help from Pargo, no nothing. This season may get real ugly real soon.
Supercesto said:
Where is the people that defended Gordon's departure? I heard somebody say in a forum, that the bulls will be better without Gordon using the addition by substraction crap theory. Go figure...
MrHappy said:
To your point, who expected Hinrich, Salmons and Pargo to suck this year? If they would play better, the Bulls would have a better record.
Alex said:
When Gordon was here, he spread the floor and took the pressure off Hinrich and Salmons. The opponents had to pay extra attention to Gordon's threat of scoring from ant where on the floor.
Salmons is adjusting and I will bet that the highly over rated and the grossly over paid clock eater Hinrich is as good as he gets, he is too slow and is a career streak shooter. He can't dump the ball off to Gordon and he can't creat his own shot, he is pathetic.
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