Derrick Rose quotes that scare me to death
Courtesy of K.C. Johnson:
As for the shooting woes, point guard Derrick Rose said, "We're taking good shots, they're just not going in."
No. You aren't. And by you, I mean the team, not Derrick Rose in particular.
The Bulls lead the league in long 2s, the least efficient shot in basketball. You know what's worse than living by the three point shot? Living by the long two point shot. The Bulls offense is basically dysfunctional in that it's outcome often ends up with the least efficient shot in basketball.
The worst part of it is, they might be right. The long two may be the best shot this team can get, and if so, that's the reason they'll never escape the bottom five on offense this season.
"There's no room to drive," Rose said.
Point taken.
There's not a lot of room to drive in the half court, but you have lots of transition opportunities where you get the ball on offense with one man to beat and no one else back yet, and you keep resetting the offense. That's not a spacing issue. It's a Derrick Rose issue.
The spacing issue absolutely exists in the half court, but Derrick hasn't pushed the ball up the court hard or taken his opportunities when he has a chance at a one on one in transition. What star player isn't scoring in that situation 70% of the time?
Even in the half court, star slashers with no room to drive still dive into the lane, bang bodies, create contact and get fouls. They are certainly not as effective as if they have space, but they don't become passive and useless.
Derrick Rose is playing scared right now. He needs to find his swagger again and get his confidence back. He needs to bang bodies when he drives in the lane instead of leaping to avoid contact. Maybe the ankle is still in the back of his mind. Maybe he's just never been aggressive and never will be. If not, the Bulls are screwed, because a guy who doesn't shoot 3s and doesn't draw fouls isn't going to lead the team anywhere on offense.
He has the talent. He has the physical tools to get the job done at the highest level. He needs to aggressively assert his will on the opposing team though. The spacing sucks, the offensive fit with this group isn't great, and is made worse by our perimeter players slumping. However, Rose needs to step it up, or we ramp down our expectations to future very good, but sub all star level player.
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33 Comments
dperrozzi said:
Agree with everything you said Doug.
Derrick has been our 3rd best player this year. If that continues for the remainder of the season this team is not going very far. If the bulls are not going to hit a lot of threes they need to get to the free throw line.
Hoover said:
I saw these quotes and thought the same thing. Star players force the issue. Drive you will get fouled. I don't like this at all. I'm starting to worry that Rose will just be a guy.
Hoover said:
Oh, and if Rose isn't that good, the Bulls are screwed for years to come.
Newskoolbulls said:
Rose is not taking good shot, its a little shake and bake and an ugly jumper. Now I understand what he says that we are taking good shots which is true. Alot of our jumpers are wide open and we just arent knocking thme in.
Doug Thonus said:
I hate our shots.
We're taking assloads of contested long 2s. Worst shot in basketball.
Dpauley23 said:
Those quotes were taking out of context though as he was just talking about how the Raptors were playing
Bigway said:
I still don't see anything that resembles a professional offense. Is it Rose's fault or Del Bimbo and his crack staff.
Doug Thonus said:
What offense do you run when the opponent has 5 guys with a foot in the paint and you can't shoot 3s to save your life?
Bigway said:
Well, street ball sure doesn't cut it. I don't know, maybe we should try the Princeton Offense, is Pete Carill still around.
Newskoolbulls said:
The long two is Luols bread and butter. However Rose and Salmons could do more than just shooting long twos. Slash and get to the basket and throw your body around and get some calls.
Doug Thonus said:
The worst is that we dribble into so many of our long 2s. At least a lot of Luol's long 2s are catch and shoots. Salmons, Hinrich, and Rose are taking a lot of off the dribble long twos.
Salmons is the worst offender as he's taking isolation, off the dribble, heavily contested long 2s.
Simeon2UC said:
I wouldn't give up Derrick for CP3 or West, even if they offered both. Derrick is a sophomore Point Guard in his hometown. Loyalty goes a long way and the way you all are talking is stupidity.
Dpauley23 said:
Ya who wouldn't a top 5 player in the league compared to guy who looks average
Doug Thonus said:
I'll take rationality over loyalty.
I hope the best for Derrick. I want him to be a star, but he has to be a star. You can't just sit back and make him one out of loyalty and the power of good will.
Simeon2UC said:
I do think Rose is right. For the fact, everytime he creates a shot for Salmons, the dude holds the ball for 4 seconds and then throws up a contested shot. If that were Gordon, do I need to say, he would drain it. I think we miss Gordon and once again the Liberals are right and the conservatives are wrong. I really don't care about this season in general, as long as we do better than last year, we're going to be fine. I think Bulls will land Joe Johnson, Wade, Stoudemire, or whomever decides to pack their bags for a 2010 team. We're the closest to competing and we have a group of guys that want to be the second option. Trust me, Rose stands out. Having Jordan shadow doesn't hurt neither. I hope Salmons opt out, too. Somebody tell Taj Gibson he's playing like that guy from Xavier... David West.
Bigway said:
You do realize that Gordon is a career 43% shooter, pretty much Allen Iverson territory.
Doug Thonus said:
Gordon is an elite scorer in both volume or efficiency. To pretend otherwise is factually wrong. Complain about his other flaws, but he's one of the best pure shooters in the league and does more to space the floor than just about anyone.
Bigway said:
And his career field goal percentage is under 44%, that is a fact that cannot be disputed, and not subject to anyones opinion.
44% is not elite shooting in my book, regardless of any new fangled statistical packages.
If all we need is floor spacing, go find the new Steve Kerr, who I believe shot over 45% career from the 3 point line.
Doug Thonus said:
I also think the Bulls desperately miss Gordon. Rose the most.
Bigway said:
Maybe we have a Del Bimbo problem. Is he reigning in Rose, so that he can run "the offense".
I think that Rose's injury is more serious than we know, it may bother him all season. The minute that I heard he had blood in his achilles I was worried about the season.
The injury is the only real explanation for the lack of aggresion in his play this year vs last. He clearly has a meek personality, and I don't think that will ever change. Regardless of what he becomes as a player, he will never be Michael Jordan as a leader.
Rose is clearly a Scottie Pippen waiting for his Michael Jordan. Which is why the only move for the Bulls is to do everything and anything necessary to bring Lebron to Chicago. Lebron, Rose and Noah along with the 2 rooks and Asik is plenty enough to build a winner around. I say that Deng(should he continue his progress throughout the season)is our pawn in an ultimate sign & trade for Lebron.
While I never thought that Rose's shooting was a problem last season, he appears to have improved his jumper to the point that he might be a better mid range shooter than Gordon ever was. Whether or not he can addd 3 point range remains to be seen.
Personally, I would like to see Rose become a 20ppg scorer, and a rebounder in the Rondo, or young Jason Kidd mode. He is always going to be an offensive point guard, not a Magic Johnson or more realistically Mark Jackson type.
Doug Thonus said:
Could Del Negro be pulling in the reigns on Rose? I suppose it's possible, but I don't think so. Rose has never been an ultra aggressive player. When you look at how much more aggressively Deng and Salmons are despite not being as good as individual creators it's hard to imagine that Rose is being reigned in.
The injury could be a serious factor. That's my hope in some ways, because if the injury is a big factor then he'll get a lot better once it's gone.
I also agree that Rose looks like the robin and not the batman for this team in the future. Acquiring the batman is a nearly impossible feat though, so it doesn't bode well for our championship dreams if that's the case.
Your thought that Rose is a better mid range shooter than Gordon is absolutely laughable.
Bigway said:
Well, his field goal percentage as a rookie was 47.6%, far higher than Gordon has ever shot in his career, so I am not laughing, the stats don't lie, unlike an undeserved reputation(Rose is not a bad shooter, he just doesn't have 3 point range, yet).
Gordon is a streak shooter not a great shooter ala Reggie Miller. If he weren't a streak shooter, his career field goal percentage would not be under 44%.
Michael Jordan shot over 50% for his entire Bulls career, and he took an awful lot of mid range jumpers, more than Gordon I would bet. In fact his worst year as a Bull when he was old is still better than Gordons best year. Yet, I bet you would try to tell me that Gordon is a better mid range shooter than Jordan was.
Gordon is simply a product of shooting 40% on 3's and taking a lot of them, so how is he anything more than Steve Kerr, who shot 45% from 3.
We were an F-ing .500 team(just like Detroit will be this year)over a 5 year period with the "savior" so what makes anyone believe that we would somehow be any better than that if he were still here.
I guess that the obsession with one of the most one dimensional players in the history of the NBA will not end until after we land one of the big fish of the summer of 2010. After that, thank God, we will never have to hear Ben Gordon's name mentioned again.
Finally, as bad as Rose is on D, I would love to see Rose and Gordon go one on one, supposedly Gordon's strength, my money is on Rose.
Doug Thonus said:
I'm not going to argue with your opinion, because I already know you hate Ben Gordon, so there's no point.
Your view of efficiency is skewed and statistically wrong if you think Gordon wasn't efficient. Scoring is a function of usage [how many shots can you take] and efficiency [how many points to you score on them].
Gordon scores a ton of points on his shots because he takes 3s and draws fouls. Gordon takes a lot of shots per minute, so he's someone you can consistently go to for points and isn't cherry picking (like Joakim Noah whom might have great efficiency due to taking only easy shots).
If you don't think Gordon is a great scorer, you're simply incorrect. He may not be an elite scorer, but he's a top 15 scorer in the NBA based on his efficiency and volume.
He's also not a selfish guy like you paint him as. He takes the fewest shots per game of any guy with his scoring efficiency and volume in the league. He's also been known as one of the hardest workers in the NBA.
As for Gordon vs Jordan, Jordan's clearly a better mid range shooter, because he had the greatest post up fade away in the history of the NBA.
Derrick Rose doesn't do anything but shoot open mid range shots at mediocre efficiency though. He's shooting like 37% on jumpers this season last I looked. Gordon shoots a higher percentage than that on threes.
Who would win one on one? I don't know. I'm not real psyched about either one's ability to stop the other, and I consider it a completely irrelevant question.
CN71 said:
It's way too early in the season to be that worried about Rose in light of his injury. If he's still struggling after 20 - 25 games that will be concerning. While letting BG go was the best thing for the team long term we all knew this year would be rough for offense. That said Salmons and Hinrich have got to start knocking some shots down and the law of averages says they will...right??? :-)
Doug Thonus said:
It's not time to go and trade Derrick Rose or anything, but it's certainly time to start trying to figure out what's going wrong and how to fix it.
I agree that Salmons and Hinrich need to hit shots. That's the single best thing we can do to improve the team.
CN71 said:
It's way too early in the season to be that worried about Rose in light of his injury. If he's still struggling after 20 - 25 games that will be concerning. While letting BG go was the best thing for the team long term we all knew this year would be rough for offense. That said Salmons and Hinrich have got to start knocking some shots down and the law of averages says they will...right??? :-)
MrHappy said:
More drives to the basket by Rose, Salmons and Hinrich, might be a good idea.
Doug Thonus said:
Hinrich isn't really a slasher, Salmons is only an okay slasher, and Rose doesn't think he has enough room to slash or may still be hampered by an ankle injury.
We'd like to see more slashing and free throws, but we don't have any players who've proven they can accomplish that. Even last year, Rose didn't get to the free throw line.
Simeon2UC said:
You guys are projecting Rose to be on this pedestal that's not even realistic for a unselfish Point Guard. I don't care if Rose averages 17 ppg. and 9 ast. his whole career, while still a Bull. We must keep him and build the right guys around him. I don't think we're going to find a dead shooter like Gordon for a long time. Gordon is rare. The dude releases the ball during the first seconds of a game, if it goes in, pretty much he'll be on all night. Gordon was a great shooter, but a good scorer for us. The fact he didn't fit the laws of Reinsdorf's and some fans' stature led to a selfish demise of the potentially good. I'll take Gordon's 24 ppg. any day, no matter how hr gets it. Just know I'll take it. Bulls lost this off-season by trying to be selfish. Take the good with the bad.
Doug Thonus said:
You recently said Derrick Rose would be a top 5 point guard of all time. So I don't think you can accuse anyone else of putting him on a pedestal.
I only get annoyed by the double talk.
Rose is a future superstar combined with the expectations on Rose are too high. Future superstars have high expectations.
Bigway said:
The number of crappy teams throughout history with self centered, egotistical, one dimensional scorers who never won a thing is beyond stagggering.
Gordon has never averaged 24ppg, so the Detroit move was perfect for him, he got more money and more shots. Too bad he will never get more wins, or any rings.
Simeon2UC said:
I don't care if he's 6'2''. Iverson in his prime was 5'11''.
Bigway said:
Has he grown or shrunk since his prime, HaHa
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