Hinrich to be traded
Sources close to me have told me that Kirk Hinrich will be traded sometime before next season starts. His status seems to be independent on whether the Bulls are able to bring back Gordon.
Realistically, we all knew Hinrich wouldn't be too long for the Bulls after drafting Derrick Rose, so if this proves true, then it shouldn't serve as a big surprise. Perhaps the only surprising thing about the rumor is that his status is independent of Gordon's status. Paxson had talked in the past about not wanting to enter next season without either guy.
Now it appears that the Bulls are rebuilding entirely around Rose, or at least that's my take on a decision to trade Kirk regardless of whether Ben comes back. The team seems like it would take an awfully big step backwards if it loses both players.
There's this rumor out there from kfan, no idea who the heck this guy is, or how credible he is, but I'm all over this deal if it's available and Hinrich is going:
Seems like a deal too good to be true for the Bulls even in a weak draft. (Be sure to leave your comments in the box below, I'd love to hear your thoughts)
Now it appears that the Bulls are rebuilding entirely around Rose, or at least that's my take on a decision to trade Kirk regardless of whether Ben comes back. The team seems like it would take an awfully big step backwards if it loses both players.
There's this rumor out there from kfan, no idea who the heck this guy is, or how credible he is, but I'm all over this deal if it's available and Hinrich is going:
Don't really know why the Bulls, who now have a nice three-guard combo, would go for this, but the Mix hears that the Wolves could offer the No. 6 pick in a very weak draft for Bulls guard Kirk Hinrich. Think of it: A combo guard who can even defend (including forwards as big and strong and talented as Paul Pierce). One down side: He has already been in the league for five years. Trent Tucker's idea might be even better: Offer Mike Miller for Hinrich.
Seems like a deal too good to be true for the Bulls even in a weak draft. (Be sure to leave your comments in the box below, I'd love to hear your thoughts)
29 Comments
Ralphb07 said:
So regardless of if we keep BG or not Kirk is gone.... I think the Salmons pick up made this happen... It also make sense as to why we're looking at PG's in this draft.
If this Minny deal is true and we land the 6th do you think Flynn is the target at 6
Doug Thonus said:
That's what I've heard. Kirk is gone regardless of whether we keep BG.
I don't know if Flynn is the target at six, because I haven't looked at enough of the top end of the draft. Flynn's the best prospect I've put a lot of time into reviewing, but I haven't looked at Harden or DeRozan.
Ralphb07 said:
So is this pretty reliable info? This is definitely good news
Doug Thonus said:
I would say the info on Hinrich leaving is pretty reliable. I suppose if they can't find the right trade he might stay, but there seems to be a strong push for him to go.
Timchi said:
Unreal. So I guess this is more work for you Doug, if it means scouting guys at the top of the draft as well! But good news for your readers and listeners as nobody offers the draft coverage goods like DT!
And by the way, I am all about this deal as well. Perhaps Hill at 6 and Williams at 16, or Harden/DeRozan at 6 and Johnson at 16? I wonder about keeping BG after Reinsdorf's comments on the matter if we draft a 2 with that higher pick.
Right now, keeping Ben and adding Hill and Williams or Flynn is sounding pretty sweet to me, but that could change quickly.
Doug Thonus said:
I don't know if I'm going to have time to start looking at the top 10 based on a rumor from a radio station I've never heard of.
If I hear anything more about the rumor, I'll be more inclined to look. I still need to find some time to look at Lawson and Maynor for my next PG show.
After that, I'll have covered the majority of guys in the 10-25 range on DX's mock with Sam Young, Austin Daye being a couple I'd still need to look at, so I may start looking at some of the mid lotto guys then.
Timchi said:
Well, you certainly don't seem to have the luxury of excess time lately, so it's understandable. I'm sure that we'll see how likely this trade is in the coming weeks simply based on who works out with the team.
Doug Thonus said:
I don't know, some teams draft guys they don't even work out. I think the private workout process can be overrated. A lot of guys who've been drafted based on private workouts rather than body of work have also been big time busts.
Timchi said:
Also, I guess that in the hypothetical move for the #6 pick, we'd take back Brian Cardinal who expires at the end of the season? Works for me.
joebe said:
Hey Doug,
Great blog. Love your work and your podcast.
I don't think this is a good move if it's independant of BG's status. We don't know if Salmons is even going to be here in 2010. I believe he has an opt-out clause correct? If we were to do this, I'd rather take a fly on Evans. Or maybe even Hill if he slips. That's just my opinion.
Doug Thonus said:
Thanks for the compliments on the blog/podcast.
The rumor for #6 isn't part of my rumor just a separate thing I ran across while posting this rumor that I didn't feel warranted a separate topic.
If the #6 rumor is true, then I'd absolutely do it regardless of Gordon's status. If not, then I'd have to think it depends at least a little on what you get back. I'd hate to see Gordon walk away, Hinrich traded for an expiring, and add nothing to the team.
I understand Rose/Hinrich isn't a great fit long term, but short term if you lose Gordon and Hinrich that's a massive talent loss if nothing good comes back.
Ralphb07 said:
Everything we her about Kirk being shopped it has us getting talent. Tech9 has talked about Camby and Kaman and this Minny guy is talking #6 pick, so it looks like the Bulls want something good in return.....
I would trade Kirk regardless of Gordon and even Deng too if Deng landed us Bosh or Amare...
IMO though Gordon will be back, I really feel that after hearing all these rumors of late. I wouldn't be surprised if BOTH Kirk and Deng were dealt this summer
Doug Thonus said:
It could certainly be the case that we have certain deals basically on the table that bring talent, and those are good enough that we'll move him for some talent.
I can't see any team taking on Deng without sending back something wretched.
chi said:
Hey Doug, lovin' the blog. So I take it that the rest of the league is as down on Deng as many of the bulls fans are? Any way of including Minnesota in a 3-way for Amare or Bosh?
Doug Thonus said:
I think the rest of the league is just as down on Deng, but I couldn't tell you for sure, it'd just be speculation on my part. Anything is possible on a three way with Minnesota perhaps, but I don't think it's likely we'll be able to get Bosh/Amare regardless of what we try.
Bigway said:
Although, I like Hinrich as the perfect 3rd guard, I have been posting suggesting just this trade, Hinrich for the #6 pick, and using the pick to select DeMar DeRozen, a legitimate 6'6" 2 guard with kobe like athletic skills. We would have to take back a contract, preferably an expiring one like Mike Miller to make this deal work.
I have also been suggesting trading Ben Gordon for the Wizards #5 pick, and selecting DeRozen, but keeping Hinrich. We would have to take back Etan Thomas's expiring to make this deal work.
If we do both trades then take DeJuan Blair with the second pick.
And if we manage to keep the #16 pick go for Austin Daye, to eventually replace Deng, or BJ Mullens.
Doing one of these deals or both is the best way to solve the Hinrich/Gordon debate. I am in the Hinrich camp, but I might be inclined to go for the homerun and trade them both which would save us a ton of 2010 money. Then trade Deng and expiring contracts, which we will have a ton of for Amare, Bosh or Wade, and by 2011 we should be ready for a prolonged championship run.
Doug Thonus said:
I think getting the #6 back for Hinrich is probably too good to be true, that's not my rumor just one I picked up on. If we can get the #6 back then I'd do it in a heartbeat, and hopefully, so would the Bulls.
You can't trade Gordon for a draft pick. He can't begin contract negotiations until July 1st, and the draft is June 25th. When you see those trades that are resolved later, those are ones where all the pieces are in place salary wise already, but the trade just can't go through until new salaries roll over. By league rules, it's impossible for Gordon to go in a draft day trade, even one that will be made official later.
It's worth remembering a lot of these 2010 guys might not be there in 2010 if they sign extensions this summer, and if our team stinks really bad because it spent all it's time clearing cap space then none of them would choose to come here anyway.
WE may have to make our best offer at 2010 guys in a trade this summer with an extension.
Marcos Felipe Leal said:
Good morning Doug,
My name is Marcos Felipe and I live in Brazil and I have a blog that publishes the news would say the Bulls. The blog is in Portuguese (www.bullsbrasil.com) and people always come to Portugal to stay informed.
After my propaganda (laughs), I would like to ask about this rumor of the arrival of Shaq, it is real? The Suns have interest in Luol Deng? Or is it easier to bring Amare than O'Neal? How to negotiate with you more chances to happen, so you track behind the scenes?
Doug Thonus said:
I don't know how legit the Shaq thing is. It doesn't make sense from the Suns perspective to me. I think they'd definitely give us Shaq before they'd give up Amare, since Amare would have more trade value around the league.
I know the guy who published the rumor has been correct on rumors in the past, but I always warn with such things that just because something is discussed doesn't mean there is something there.
It seems often times that rumors are trailing indicators (meaning they come out after such a trade was discussed and didn't pan out). Unlike most people, I believe most trade rumors on reputable sites are based on real sources.
It's just that it doesn't take much to legitimize a rumor. John Paxson called Bryan CoAngelo and says "Hey Bryan, we'd like to trade for Chris Bosh, we'll give you Deng, Tyrus and 2 picks", CoAngelo replies "No thanks", end of conversation.
Some site picks up on the rumor and says Bulls and Raptor had discussion of Deng and Tyrus for Bosh swap. It's true, but it doesn't really mean anything.
msalivar said:
At #6? I think Gar and Pax would have a choice of one of two players I really like in their system. My first choice, if Jordan Hill manages to fall, they need to be all over that. On the offensive end he'd be able to add that pick and pop alternative to our pick and rolls, while still being very effective on a roll. As he puts on more muscle, he may even end up with a pretty good post game, putting him somewhere between Bosh and Stoudemire in usage. On the defensive end, within a couple three years I think he'll be able to guard pretty much any big man in the league. Sure he's still raw, but he's shown an ability to improve in his time down here at Arizona, so I doubt he'll be an entire bust.
If he's not there, I really like Tyreke Evans. Unlike DeRozan, his game is already pretty well developed, and he should be able to jump in quickly to play some pretty solid defense. Unlike Harden, he has a really good handle being a PG in college, and we shouldn't have worry about him stopping the ball, repeatedly, every freaking time he touches it (yes, I'm talking to you BG and Salmons!). If VDN is able, I see a complex system of pick and rolls and pick and pops with Deng/TT slashing back and forth, absolutely slaughtering people on rotations and help defense. Rose, along with a player like Evans has the potential to be, we could have the two headed monster we hoped for with Heinrich and Wade a couple years ago. Unfortunately, I doubt he has the ability to develop a consistent three ball with his unconventional shot, and even his free throw shooting sucks.
If both these guys are gone, it probably means Harden is there, which wouldn't be a bad consolation prize in my mind. Actually, probably a toss up with Evans depending on the direction they want to go. He's also a strong defender, and his shot is likely to develop a lot farther than Evans'. I'm afraid he's going to stop the ball a lot, though, and he won't be able to handle the ball as well, meaning Rose won't have the opportunity to play off the ball as much. Nor will their back court be as dangerously versatile and unpredictable.
Doug Thonus said:
I haven't focused on Evans/Hill in my scouting because I haven't expected the Bulls to draft that highly. Hill seems like a good fit, I'm not sure about Evans who seems like he needs to be an on-ball player and couldn't even hit the college three.
mjdff said:
"Sources close to you" have told you this? Big deal. Sources close to the Bulls would be more believable. ;-)
Doug Thonus said:
Unfortunate phrasing, this is from a source inside the organization in a position to know.
Marcos Felipe Leal said:
Tyler Hansbrough é o nome mais forte para ser a escolhido para o Bulls na vigésima sexta posição? Procede esta informação?
Se ele não vier, qual outro nome cotado?
Marcos Felipe Leal said:
Tyler Hansbrough is the most powerful to be chosen for the Bulls in the twenty-sixth position? Carry this information?
If he comes, which quoted another name?
Doug Thonus said:
Not sure exactly what you mean, but I think if the Bulls want Hansbrough they will need to take him at #16 or trade up from #26 to something closer to the #20 range.
I think it's easy to imagine the Bulls drafting Hansbrough, but I'm not sure if he'll be the guy we like most on the board at any pick we have.
moneymaker808 said:
I dont think trading Hinrich for a draft pick alone is worth it. If we are going to trade Hinrich we might as well go for a veteran big man who can score in the post.
I just dont see trading someone like Hinrich for a high pick only to draft an NBA unproven point guard. Just does not seem wise at all.
Unless we cannot get Amare or Bosh then we should pursue Chris Kaman.
Doug Thonus said:
Chris Kaman has a 15% trade kicker in his contract, his cap value becomes huge, and exceeds his value as a player IMO. I can see why Bulls fans want Kaman, but his contract will average 13 million per season for the next three years if acquired in a trade.
He has a career PER of 13.9 which is pretty bad, and he's had a mediocre TS% for most of his career as well. He's also had significant injuries in the past two seasons.
Kaman, if he can stay healthy, would help us in the short run, but he's a sub all star caliber big man even at his best. We'll still be looking for the big man answer after acquiring him.
Marcos Felipe Leal said:
Luol Deng leaves or is it?
You do not think Chicago is betting it all in 2010 and threatens to leave the 2009 season and the next?
I hear Brazil's interest in franchising Bosh and Wade, you believe in the advent of these two players? If they do not come, we run the same risk in 2000, where he had several good players available and they have opted for other teams and we just stayed with the medium?
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