Versteeg or Byfuglien? Who's out when Bolland's back?
With Dave Bolland's return to the lineup a possibility on Wednesday night when the Chicago Blackhawks return to the United Center to face the St. Louis Blues, it's decision time for either Joel Quenneville or Stan Bowman. If the general manager is unable to move a player, then the head coach has to determine who sits when his second line center returns to the ice after recovering from back surgery earlier this season.
The top six forwards will remain fairly consistent as I project Patrick Kane will stay by Jonathan Toews side and Bolland will center the second line with Marian Hossa on his right flank. I'd prefer Troy Brouwer stay with Toews and Kane, but you could argue that Patrick Sharp should skate on the left side of that duo. Either way, the top two lines appear set with Sharp and Brouwer as interchangeable parts.
The plot thickens when considering the possibilities of the third and fourth lines. However, I argue that the fourth line should remain unchanged at this time. While Tomas Kopecky may be the weak link on the roster, he's most likely keeping Adam Burish's spot warm when the former Badger returns after the Olympics. Plus, not everyone can fill the role and responsibilites of a fourth line player.
Some have already suggested that either Kris Versteeg or Dustin Byfuglien will slide down to the 8 to 10 minute a night role. Really? While Big Buff may meet the size requirements, I'm afraid all the positive strides he's made while playing with John Madden on the third line would be lost on his first shift with the energy crew. And Versteeg on the fourth line? Please. You must be joking.
That said, in my mind, the decision all comes to the third line and two wing positions between three players. You can argue that Andrew Ladd should be the odd man out, but I just don't see it. The former Stanley Cup champion provides too much experience for the young squad. Ladd's pairing with Madden on a defensive line works well as both players have great positioning instincts. They know where to be and when to be there.
Now we're down to two. Buff and Steeger.
I would never have written this earlier in the season, but I believe Byfuglien brings more to the table at this moment. Since being moved down to the third line, the big guy has been a consistent performer for the Hawks. Plus, as he proved against Vancouver in last year's playoffs, Buff can have a great impact in a series. Add in his size and Byfuglien more readily fits the bill of a third line player.
This is also not an anti-Versteeg rant. I'm a fan of Kris Versteeg and he may be a special player at some point in his career. Yet, when Bolland returns, someone has to be eliminated from the current roster and I'd prefer not to mess with the fourth line at this time.
Much like Jack Skille in Rockford, Versteeg is best suited as a top six forward. He's been OK on the third line, but he's also dissapeared including a recent multiple game skid without a shot on goal. While his upside shadows over Byfuglien's potential, Versteeg is far from a finished product. He has improved his puck possession skills, but he also hangs on to the puck too long which makes him prone to bad turnovers. Like Kane who has much improved in the offensive zone, Versteeg is still figuring out when to attempt the difficult pass and when to fire pucks at the net.
As much as the further development of Versteeg may pay off in future years, the Blackhawks hope to end this journey with a Stanley Cup. As it's been 49 years since they hoisted the trophy, the Hawks would be foolhardy to focus their attention beyond the next few months.
Now Bowman may go and solve this issue before Wednesday. In fact, I kind of expect it. But, until Toronto's Brian Burke pulled the trigger on a couple of deals this weekend, the NHL has not been an active marketplace. Also consider that everyone is well educated on the Blackhawks situation.
I'll await my criticism, especially from Versteeg loyalists. But, remember this. At least we'll be debating something other than Huet versus Niemi.
31 Comments
Jimmy Greenfield said:
However this plays out, man is this team loaded right now.
Mark Kiley said:
That's for sure. The current situation is categorized under "good problems to have."
Nick Berinti said:
I hope they leave Brower on the top line becasue will Bolland back flanked by Sharp and Hossa, that line is an equal two way threat. I think Steeger needs to concentrate on the moment rather than trying to make the headlines on and off the ice like Kane. He tries to do too much and often blows decent opportunites. Unlike Buff, the effort is there on a more consistent basis. Theres only 1 puck on the ice, I think this debate can only be solved by seeing what Bowman gets in return. Hands down, I would rather see Buff stay around if he would show a little more heart!
Dean Youngblood said:
They should keep Brouwer with the dynamic duo, Toews and Kane.
Versteeg or Byfuglien? That is tough. Who is more versatile or harder to replace? Byfuglien.
So, Mark, What do you expect of Bowman?
Mark Kiley said:
That's the question Youngblood. What should we expect of Bowman? It's time for the young GM to make a deal.
I expect either Versteeg, Buff, and/or Barker to be shipped out for a defenseman in return.
Stay tuned.
fattybeef said:
Tomas Kopecky = Gone, finally I wont have to watch him play hockey ever again in a Hawks uniform.
Versteeg stays. He can play on the penalty kill and fill in at center if absolutely needed, WAY more versatile of a player I dont care how unpolished he is. Putting Buff and energy in the same sentence is kind of funny. If that were the case Brouwer would have never had a shot at the first line.
I'm giving him a hard time and Buff has had a better year. Its who do you think will be more valuable down the road. While Buff drives Roberto "I love to stop 40 shots a game" Luongo absolutely crazy, I think you need a guy who will be able to step into one of those first two lines just incase someone goes down, can play the PK and center if desperate.
Tough to replace a big man who can skate though and he definately found an extra spring in his step during the playoffs last year. Glad they dont pay me to make that decision. Id get real fired real fast. Package either with Barker for some sweet draft picks and a player to be named then take the sweetest deal.
And since I made this long anyways what do you know about the Hawks still kicking ass with Patrick Sharp playing center on the second line. He hasnt been perfect but who would have predicted this level of success? He should win a prize for not totally Biffing that line and forcing Bowman to make a deal.
Mark Kiley said:
Sharp's acceptance of the centerman duties is a testament to his character. He sacrificed his personal stats for the betterment of the team. A rare occurrence by today's professional athletes.
Seems kind of funny that Sharp wasn't Quenneville's first choice when Bolland opted for surgery.
Jerry Kayne said:
I'd rather see Buff platooned. Maybe that'll make him more consistent. Remember, he was a no-show in the limo too!
I hate to mention it but we have to plan for more injuries. Remember Sharp went down at the end of last season & Toews this year from the head hit. You never know. And the seriousness of a back surgery? Does anyone remember Daze? He never came back 100%. Not even 2%. We may have to protect Bolland for a while if he's not too fragile to play again they way he's expected.
My answer to the posed question Buff or Versteeg? Versteeg all the way. He may make rookie mistakes but he is way more versatile and attracts nicer looking girls.
FearlessFreep said:
Buff definitely has more upside potential than Versteeg. The problem with potential is just that it is what it is.
When Buff decides he wants to be a force and suck up the crummy responsibility of being a nuisance in front of the net, the guy can be a difference maker. He can play wing. He can play defense (although for our sake let's hope it doesn't come to that!).
Versteeg is a dynamic player but as has been pointed out, I'm not sure how well he fits with the Hawks' scheme. He's exciting to watch, but can be frustrating too when he tries to carry the biscuit over the blue line instead of dumping it in when it's the better option.
The good news is that whatever way the Hawks go, I would hope they can get decent value for Barker and that player.
icehogst said:
Versteeg and Byfuglien are both more valuable than Kopecky and Frazier. Keep them both playing and put Bolland, and later Burrish on the fourth line with Eager.
Jay Zawaski said:
I think we're forgetting one option. Kopecky can play center. Fraser sits, Sharp to wing, Kopecky to center. Now when Burish comes back...that's a different story.
Jerry Kayne said:
Fraser is a very responsible center. Let's forget about Hendry in the equation.
fattybeef said:
Kopecky cannot play center. And I would argue his ability to play on the wing. Has the touch of a brick wall and lacks the grit, toughness, skill, speed and competitiveness of Fraser. Eager, Ladd, Buff, Steeger, Hendry, Bicks or Burish (on one leg) would be much better options.
Hello waiver wire how are you doing today.
cubby23(eric) said:
x2.
I agree you sit someone from that fourth line, and you drop one of the forwards off the Madden or Hossa line down to the fourth line wing. Either Kopecky or Fraser can sit. I don't really care which one. Q can even rotate them if he wants.
I too, wonder, what will happen when Burish is ready? Does Stan make a preemptive trade and clear a spot or do several pieces get moved to bring in that missing piece of the puzzle?
VegasHawksFan said:
From a look to the future prospective, I probably want to keep Versteeg although I'm not sure he's the best fit for the long view vision of the team. To win a cup this year though, he is probably one of the better players that can bring back an immediately useful player.
Hostile Hawk said:
It really is nice to talk about something other than Huet vs Niemi.
I might be a loud one in that forum, but I am tired of it too.
This Bolland thing is something I have been wondering about for some time. This team really is stacked, what a burden.
My response would be to keep things as closely resembled to the current format as possible. This team has already seen way too much line juggling.
Move Madden to the second line center, shove Sharp over to winger. Don't even touch the Toews' line.
Put Bolland as the center of the third line with Ladd and Versteeg on his sides. Bolland and Ladd have already been successful in the past together and I think Versteeg might fit nicely with that tandem.
If we can afford it, move Buf down to the fourth line, giving them more offense which has been booming lately. Trade Barker making room for salaries, bring Hendry up. Magic!
Now the only question is who to sit on the Fourth line. At the moment, my money is on Eager (he hasn't been the force he was last year) Buf will bring the size, but I would keep rotating things until an answer presented itself, because I like Eager. When Burish comes back things will be even more fun.
Jerry Kayne has a good point on the fragility of a just off injury player. So, don't let anyone go just yet on the offense.
Just my reaction to it all, there is no science to it and in most cases has more to do with chemistry rather than pure talent.
But then again, what do I know, I would have been starting Niemi in the past few games.
Hostile Hawk said:
Plus, in the argument between Versteeg or Buf, salary comes into play. At the moment Buf's is much higher and a trade would probably deliver a better compensation with him at the moment.
fattybeef said:
Buff:
3,000,000 through 10-11 will be restricted free agent I think
Steeger:
3,066,666 through 11-12 will be unrestricted after.
Unless the cap hit is different they are making basically the same thing.
Tab said:
Ladd, IMO, leaves via trade and has the least impact on the chemistry
http://committedindians.com/when-burish-bolland-come-back-whos-the-odd-man-out/
Mark Giangreco Roman Wrestler said:
Ladd is one of the best defensive forwards on the team and an absolute bargain at a $1.55 mil cap hit. Not to mention he formed a shutdown 3rd line with Madden and Brouwer earlier in the year. With him and Madden on the 3rd line, maybe you won't have to put the Toews line on the other team's top line anymore.
One thing you have to consider is moving Byfuglien to the 4th line for the rest of the season would hurt his trade value in the upcoming offseason. Suddenly, Stanbow might find himself in a pinch when trying to trade a 4th liner that makes 3 mil a year.
Tab said:
Ladd's been playing w/ Sharp & Hossa most of the year, though, so putting him in Buff's spot doesn't make a ton of sense. That, and Buff-Madden-Steeger has good chemistry i wouldn't want to screw up. If Eager was going somewhere, then I could see Buff on the 4th line but, like you say, that could negatively impact Buff's value on the trade market.
My thinking that Ladd goes has as much to do w/ his RFA status after the year as anything else. I don't think he's coming back next year re: cap issues, so why not move him now while he has value to a playoff-contending team in the East (Boston perhaps) to make room.
Let's also not forget too quickly that Adam Burish is coming back soon, too.
Dave Morris said:
Quenneville seems to think this is a nice 'problem' to have. I agree with Q.
Tab said:
I agree, too
tom said:
I wouldn't be too quick to trade Byfuglien or Versteeg because of the return of Bolland.He had back surgery.
VegasHawksFan said:
That's my feeling too. For the month of Feb, I think Q should really take his time deciding who his guys are gonna be for the stretch. At times, I think this means that good players get made healthy scratches to see what works and what doesn't. Though the tinkering may cost the team some games at the time of year you don't want to do that, I still think it's important to make sure they get this as right as they can.
For my .02, I'm pretty content with the first and fourth lines and would not push a third liner down there. Between second and third lines though, I think there is a lot that needs to be decided. There's no forwards I want to see go at all, but I can't say that I consider Sharp, Versteeg, Ladd or Buff to be players I would not trade. I don't know who is talking to the Hawks and what they're offering, but I will be surprised to not see a trade at all.
Jerry Kayne said:
I'm sure plenty are coming to the overflowing trough of talent here. Bowman shouldn't trade unless there's a guarantee of something better, and there's not. He also should be careful not to screw up the team on his 1st move of his career. Could be his defining moment.
Let's go with what we got. All we need is constancy. Which may mean no line juggling either.
Dave Morris said:
Mister Kayne adds his voice of reason to the discussion, and I endorse his message.
According to CapGeek.com's Daily Tracker, Stan Bowman currently has enough cap space to add a contract with an annual value of just under $3 million.
If the Hawks are looking to add depth to the defense--which is where they probably need it most--Bowman has a good range of options, without having to shed salary.
Nick Boynton has been waived by Anaheim, so he joins a list of potentially available, value priced veteran physical d-men that includes McKee, Exelby, Aaron Ward and Nik Wallin.
In the next two weeks, as backmarkers slide and if/when bubble teams falter, there may be more choices available.
Bowman is smart to wait this out.
As far as the 'line juggling goes', Quenneville has already said Bolland needs time to work his way back into the regular rotation.
This view from Q will disappoint the Versteeg and Buff haters who can't wait to ship these two young men out of town.
Tab said:
I know that the Hawks can add salary... but the point of this article is that there are already too many guys wanting to dress in Chicago right now. When Bolland comes back, someone in the regular rotation for the last three months sits down. When Burish comes back? So while I'm hoping like everyone else that we can get some depth on the blue line that isn't named Barker or Sopel, we're going to need to move a forward eventually and could kill two birds with one stone. Indeed, moving a forward might/should bring better return than Exelby or Boynton, too
Jerry Kayne said:
Thanks Dave, I love that you've got my back.
Yesterday Chelios was begging on NBC for the Hawks to call him. Pleeeeeeeease Nooooooo. I watched him be instrumental in blowing a Cup when he was young and good in '92. I was on the glass for game 4 vs. the Lemieux & Jagr game winner. I sat next to Cheios for most of the game. I sat next to the home team PENALTY BOX! I have a very long memory and Chelios is still in my screaming nightmares.
BlackHawk Beer Nut said:
Guys.... The only odd man out to consider WITHOUT A TRADE is Colin Fraser... unless they sit Kopecky
Versteeg and Byfulglien will NOT be healthy scratches and you must be smokin something if you think Ladd is being traded.. no way...
I imagine this has already been done but I would be dangling Versteeg ,and Kopecky and see what I can get..sell high on Versteeg... BUT The only way I use Versteeg or Barker in a trade is for an essential piece of the team not a salary dump YET..
I would not waste my time or assests for a Mckee, Boynton, o Donnnel or any other waste of space when I have Jassen Cullimore at Rockford if I need a big pylon... And we have Hendry who is more than capable .. and I wouldnt give up on Barker just yet...
What about Petiot or Pepin St Denis at Rockford...
PaulH said:
Last night Fraser - which I figured. Madden isn't going anywhere because of his experience. I see a trade coming soon - but, it would be great if it's one that doen't weaken the club at any position. Versteeg, Barker and a pick or Skille for a very good player or two. With Steeger, Barker and Skille, we'd be able to take on some payroll. Kovalev is gone so forget that. I would've loved to seen Giguere in our net - still not impressed or trusting of Huet. Obviously, a blockbuster could screw with the chemistry OR on the other hand, give us a better chance at the Cup. Kopecky is here for one reason - he's Hossa's best friend - so, I think they came here as a package.
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