Black Jack

ESPN fans vote for 20th anniversary All Stars

  I saw this tonight.  Who the hell is doing this voting??
  I don't want to even get into the position players here.  The starting pitchers were...Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan.  Nolan Ryan???  Where is Greg Maddux or Roger Clemens?  

  Let me put this into perspective for those who have been dazzled by the media hype.

Don Sutton:                                                         Nolan Ryan:
324-256 W/L                                                       324-292 W/L
3.26 ERA                                                            3.19 ERA
774 Games                                                         807 Games
756 Starts                                                           773 Starts
178 Complete Games                                           222 Complete Games
58 shutouts                                                         61 Shutouts
5282.1 innings                                                     5386 innings
4692 hits                                                             3923 hits
3574 K's                                                              5714 K's
1343 walks                                                          2795 walks
Post Season                                                      Post Season
6-4 with a 3.68 ERA IN 14 starts (16 games)         2-2 with a 3.07 ERA in 7 starts (9 games)
Neither had a Cy Young. Ryan finished in the top 5 for the Cy Young 6 times, Sutton 5 times.
Nolan had the no hitters, but a 3 hit shutout with less walks in a game gets the job done for a team just as well.  Shutouts for both are pretty much the same 61-58.
Nolan had the strikeouts, 2140 more than Sutton but had 1452 more walks! 
Hits and walks combined: Ryan 6718  Sutton 6035 in pretty much the same amount of innings.

Are we getting the general idea here?  I'd take Jack Morris in a heartbeat.  All the HOF voters be damned!



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Noneck said:

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I know you know the answer. K's and no-nos are sexy. That's why Ryan and Johnson are there. Clemens would have been there but he has a little problem these days. Funny you mentioned Jack Morris. That's the guy I saw in a gangly cali kid the Sox brought up in 87. Too bad a unfortunate thing happened to that kid or I think he would have been in a Hall that Morris isn't.

Jack McDowell said:


Randy Johnson WAS Nolan Ryan for his first handful of seasons. he had no-hit stuff every outing, would strikeout a ton of guys and be .500 at the end of it all. At least he took it to the appropriate level for his talent! He not only got the strikeouts but the WINS.

Noneck said:

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If your knock is against Ryan, I see it. But you know the K's and no-nos are always going to be more appealing to people, than the guys like Maddux or Morris.

Finally, Longevity plays huge in all this stuff also.

NCSoxfan said:

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...including three in one World Series, one in relief. Randy did a lot with little support.

chicagowhitesoxwin said:

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Jack.....I agree 1000% Nolan Ryan was a great pitcher. However, he is NOWHERE near the top 10 of all time. Steve Carlton, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux were all better. Tom Seaver, Bob Gibson. I could go on and on. The K's and no no's blind people to the fact that he also allowed the MOST WALKS in MLB history!

chicagowhitesoxwin said:

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Also...1987, Jack McDowell, 1988, Robin Ventura, 1989, Frank Thomas, 1990 Alex Fernandez (yes he was GOOD for a while). Has any team ever had that kind of success 4 years in a row ??

gravedigger said:


The real question is, "Where is Pedro Martinez?".

UGODOG said:


They Picked Nolan cause he beat the hell out of Robin Ventura

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